The very fact that this article had to say that a rooster is not necessary for hens to lay eggs shows why this measure didn't pass. People are profoundly ignorant (not stupid--just needing to learn a lot more), and they're mistaking that ignorance for sophistication. What I refer to as "urban sensibilities" and farmer/author Gene Logsdon has termed "Acorn Tree Syndrome" are crippling the advancement of appropriate technologies and sustainable agriculture.

Let's look at a related example: clotheslines. Clothes dryers use an enormous amount of energy that is produced by burning oil that comes from countries that don't like us, or by burning coal that comes from tearing down mountains and causing town-swallowing mudslides in Appalachia.

A lot of this energy usage eliminated by using clotheslines. Not everybody would want to, and I wouldn't want to see a law requiring it. But if people WANT to do this responsible thing, something that moves our nation a step closer to energy independence, that gets them outdoors and makes their clothes smell fresh without allergenic fragrances, why should we prohibit them? Outlawing such a wholesome and useful activity requires a strong argument--some harm that's worse than the benefit gained. And yet, many municipalities and homeowners associations prohibit clotheslines for no more compelling a reason than "Ew, it looks trashy. I don't wanna see it."

You'll get over it. It looks weird to you because you're not used to seeing it, but once you get past your classist programming that says it's ugly, you won't even notice. To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, "What do I care whether my neighbor hangs out his clothes? It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Be it clotheslines, solar panels, vegetable gardens, rain barrels, a few chickens, or anything else where someone takes personal responsibility for the health of their environment, there's a municipality somewhere that's got a law against it. Chickens used to be common in cities--it's why bantam breeds were developed, after all. It wasn't until after WWII when young suburbanites decided that anything that wasn't "modern" was embarrassing that they started passing laws against anything they saw as backward. That's why so many suburbs built in that era don't have sidewalks. Why walk if you can drive?

The economy isn't getting any better and won't for quite some time. If your city wants to be resilient and prosperous, it's going to have to lose the snooty attitude and start allowing some practical lifestyle changes. You'll have to start basing policies on empirical facts rather than prejudices.

Here's a link to a research paper a woman in Montgomery, Ohio presented to her city council on the issue of chickens. It swayed their opinion from 5-0 against to 5-0 in favor: http://www.scribd.com/doc/16509728/Chang...

http://frijolitofarm.com/blog/?p=101

Evansville...you cut and paste and snark constantly. Pot/Kettle

Heck, I nuke my eggs sometimes...in a bowl that will make it like an Egg McMuffin. Nice and round.

I'm having some nuked eggs right now. Does nuking them harm the nutrition?

gazettefan, you NUKE your eggs? Ugh. That went out in the 80's. Gah. For the record, here's how to boil an egg: Bring water to a boil, place room temperature egg in it, boil for 30 seconds, remove from heat. Allow it to sit for 10 minutes, 13-15 if your prefer a hard, solid yolk.
Enjoy with whole grain toast.
IT, nah, I don't have a superiority complex. I do think that individuals that cut, paste, insert quotes, and snark for a hobby do have an inferiority complex. Again, good luck with that.

I eat two eggs every morning -sometimes boiled, sometimes nuked. Is this bad or good?

The "no chickens" constitutional clause is found right after the the stupid statement clause that prohibits anyone from writing "where in the constitution does it say I can't (fill in the blank)?"

Inconvienttruth what are you blathering about. Talk about waste and corruption. They are small birds, buy some and let them go. Buy more, let them go. Eventually, they will be all over the city and the city will have no choice but to allow liberty and freedom to ring. Where in the Constitution does it say that I can't raise chickens?

Oh look, princess has found a comment section to cluck in...

"despite your assertion that I have a superiority complex..."
.
Yes, and unlike you I can document it as fact:
- "Janesville simply isn't progressive enough to deal with urban chickens."
- "Janesville, on the other hand, has its own 'values'... lower to middle class people that try to rationalize their self-worth by spying on their neighbors and finding things to poke fun at."
- "Well, go on eating your non-food, contaminated, factory farmed eggs. I'll enjoy the rich flavor of an egg less than a day old."
- "Oh yes, allowing corporate farms to control everything you eat is so much wiser!"
- "Go ahead and drink that Kool Aid."
- "I LIVE in a rural area, YES it is interesting and diverse. Janesville, not so much."
- "You have made no points, asked no questions, made no assertions yet of value to the topic."
- "How elementary."
- "It's obvious you have no interest in actual intellectual discourse."
- "OR red dye content; obviously the type of 'nutrition' you prefer."
- "Perhaps even your Twinkie coated tongue could..."
- "Seems you are judgemental against those who are not slaves to Monsanto, IBP, and Premium Standard..."
- "Nice try! When you get to college, you'll learn..."
- "IT scribbles"
- "If I were an angry lesser person, I would call you a LIAR...As it is, I realize you're just angry, misinformed, and probably young."
- "Fresh home-grown eggs still rule!"
- "My opinion is you're jealous that you must go to the store and pay $6 a box for your 2 week old free range eggs while I just pick them out of my backyard."
- "IT further wails"
- "I know. We all know you are troubled. Good luck with those problems."
- "IT is not worth the trouble, frankly."
- "Just to educate you…"
- "I find the rest of your drivel to be narcissistic"
- "Enjoy your Twinkies."
.
"...that raises your ire"
.
I made no such assertion.
.
"you have the bizarre assertion that only honest individuals choose a username you feel honestly relevant to their lifestyle."
.
Your re-/selective wording aside, it's not bizzare, but factual, that it is a form of dishonesty for a user to create a name that isn't based on something relevant to the user.
.
"If you feel I am superior to you because of my rural lifestyle, that is your imagined status"
.
Not just because of your rural lifestyle (see above), but that is a part of it. No, it's not imagined: "I LIVE in a rural area, YES it is interesting and diverse. Janesville, not so much."
.
"I've never said anything of the sort."
.
See above.
.
"Enjoy your Twinkies."
.
Given that you have no idea of the foods I eat, this assumption is a "fresh" example of your arrogant sense of superiority.

"IT repeats exactly what I said by parroting:"
.
No, you stated that the Mother Earth News study "did not measure the amount of carotenoids- they measured the amounts of BETA CAROTENE." I pointed out that beta-carotene is a carotenoid. I did not "parrot" your incorrect statement.
.
"Just to educate you..."
.
Yes, because you've done so well so far.
.
"All Beta- Carotene is a carotenoid."
.
Or, as I stated previously, "beta-carotene is a carotenoid."
Now who's "parroting"?
.
"Not all carotenoids are Beta Carotene."
.
I'm aware of that. This has nothing to do with the fact that you stated the Mother Earth News study "did not measure the amount of carotenoids- they measured the amounts of BETA CAROTENE," even though beta-carotene is a carotenoid.
.
"The study I cited, under materials and methods"
.
"Materials and Methods...of? Where? This is not a source unto itself. If you're referring to Mother Earht News, no such section exists there, as indicated by your lack of a cited/linked source similar to those I easily provided.
.
"The selection of studies I cited were for conciseness only"
.
Yes, copy-pasting a list pre-made by a biased website devoted to advocating DIY-eco-foodie topics does make for "concise" research.
.
"If you have access to Agricola or PubMed, as I do, feel free to read the entire text, which is too long to post here."
.
Is this the result of your previous boast that you can give me "more studies regarding Beta Carotene in yolks, FYI"?
.
"Your 'quote' by an expert is not scientific data."
.
Why is the word quote in quotations? Are you indicating Nestle's quote is not a quote?
And yet Nestle's educated, expert knowledge is more than sufficient enough in debunking a claim made by a biased website that claims to have conducted its own test, at a vaguely unnamed lab, which was not peer-reviewed and doesn't even have data beyond a simplistic bubble-chart that merely restates their uncited claims (http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedF...).
.
"If Marion is male or female is irrelevant- it's a unisex name."
.
Your assumption regarding her sex is relevant, however, as it displays your willful ignorance. It also indicates you visited no such blog of hers, which you've (surprise!) not cited here, making your claim that "He was regarding the feeding of red food based dyes (the carotenoids you refer to) in factory farmed eggs to assure consumers" a fallacious one.
.
"I find the rest of your drivel to be narcissistic"
.
I'm sure you would.

"Thank you. It's about time you acted politely towards a fellow human."
.
I'm sorry that you've found factual honesty to be impolite. Though, I guess, as delusional as it is of you to view it as such, that my puzzled sarcasm in response to your boastful declarations is as close as I'll come to being "polite" in regards to your superiority complex.
.
"I know. We all know you are troubled. Good luck with those problems."
.
Your dishonest and delusional superiority, on full display in the quotes of mine that you took out of context and collaged together, is a large part of what troubles me. I see now that I'm obviously not dealing with a sensible person who can be reasoned with through facts and honesty, and that dismays me even further. You will be summarily ignored in the future.
.
"IT is not worth the trouble, frankly."
.
Yet here you are, posting more comments to/in regards to me.

Hey Banyan- Yes, those light blue, green, and violet eggs are fun! The breeds that lay them are called several different names.. Ameracaunas, Aracaunas, Easter eggers...I have several. They have this distinctive look with tufted cheeks and a hooked beak; one of ours looks like a little redtail.

The best question I ever got when I gave them out (I love to share eggs) was "Are the blue ones edible?" Followed closely by "Is the yolk green too?" Or "Do they cook differently?"

Banyan, Zythia, or any others that would like a half dozen to try, message me.

It's my understanding that eggs AREN'T the health problem (cholesterol etc.) claimed by many people, even the goverment. Is this true?

Well, speaking as a lay person...
Okay, now that was just a joke, see? 200+ comments?!? It's just poultry, people, lighten up! :O)

IT repeats exactly what I said by parroting: First, beta-carotene is a carotenoid. Second, only one study (not "the multiple studies") that Mother Earth News provided you, which was also conducted by Mother Earth News, mentions beta-carotene, although there’s no data.

Just to educate you- All Beta- Carotene is a carotenoid. Not all carotenoids are Beta Carotene. The study I cited, under materials and methods, selectively quantitates Beta- Carotene only. The selection of studies I cited were for conciseness only; if you have access to Agricola or PubMed, as I do, feel free to read the entire text, which is too long to post here.

Your "quote" by an expert is not scientific data. If Marion is male or female is irrelevant- it's a unisex name.

I find the rest of your drivel to be narcissistic- despite your assertion that I have a superiority complex that raises your ire, you have the bizarre assertion that only honest individuals choose a username you feel honestly relevant to their lifestyle.
If you feel I am superior to you because of my rural lifestyle, that is your imagined status; I've never said anything of the sort.

Enjoy your Twinkies.

IT hails: "Gold star for you!...another gold star"

Thank you. It's about time you acted politely towards a fellow human.

IT further wails: "I feel nothing but dismay..I.'m always at a loss...that does trouble me."

I know. We all know you are troubled. Good luck with those problems.

Zythia, I appreciate your kind message and your true statements regarding chickenkeeping. IT is not worth the trouble, frankly.

"IT scribbles:"
.
How does one "scribble" on a keyboard?
.
"'Attempt?' Explain why this is an attempt."
.
To purposefully do something is inherently an attempt.
.
"Everyone here is anonymous... not due to dishonesty, but good common sense."
.
Then you agree that anonymity by means of dishonesty is unnecessary, as I stated.
.
"There is no clause in the user agreements that one must choose a username based on his her demographic, location, or occupation."
.
Correct. That doesn't make it any less dishonest to use a name that isn't based on something relevant to the user.
.
"You're simply angry because you thought a housewife would be easy to beat in a discussion on the specificity of carotenoids."
.
False. I mentioned your 'housewife' moniker incidentally when I pointed out your hypocrisy. You stated that Janesville's values involve "lower to middle class people that try to rationalize their self-worth by spying on their neighbors and finding things to poke fun at," despite yourself being a so-called 'housewife' from Evansville who rationalizes through your own condescension of your neighbor, displaying your own values.
.
"I also happen to also know a lot about retinoids and Vitamin D, the active form of which is 1,25 Dihydroxy Vitamin D- and I didn't even have to google that!"
.
Gold star for you!
.
"If I were an angry lesser person..."
.
Are you insinuating I am a "lesser person"? Didn't you just state in your previous post that you didn't call me a name or question my moral character since not doing so are key points in honest, intellectual discussions?
.
"I would call you a LIAR by saying that my username is an 'attempt' at anonymity."
.
Except you admitted yourself that your name is for the purpose of anonymity, so you would be incorrect to call me such.
.
"As it is, I realize you're just angry..."
.
No.
.
"...misinformed"
.
About?
.
"...and probably young."
.
Relevance? Are you ageist?
.
"And prone to miswording things."
.
Such as? Not "attempted;" we've already shown that wording was correct.
.
"Fresh home-grown eggs still rule!"
.
Uh...another gold star? I'm always at a loss as to what to say to these declarations of yours...
.
"FTR, I HATE the word "foodie"."
.
Because you see yourself as much more than an amateur foodie?
.
"My opinion is you're jealous that you must go to the store and pay $6 a box for your 2 week old free range eggs while I just pick them out of my backyard."
.
Despite your assumption, I'm really not that obsessed with eggs, hun. But more power to you and your fetish if it makes you feel superior.

"IT copies from a googled question"
.
Assumption. In fact, I quoted an expert.
.
"*AHEM* the multiple studies I quoted..."
.
From Mother Earth News, found under the heading 'Mounting Evidence':
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food...
Look familiar? It's word for word the cited studies you posted.
.
"...did not measure the amount of carotenoids- they measured the amounts of BETA CAROTENE."
.
First, beta-carotene is a carotenoid. Second, only one study (not "the multiple studies") that Mother Earth News provided you, which was also conducted by Mother Earth News, mentions beta-carotene, although there’s no data. There is, however, a similar study conducted by Mother Earth News in 2007 regarding beta-carotene in eggs. Here's their scientific, peer-reviewed data from tests done "by an accredited laboratory in Portland, Ore.": http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedF...
.
"Furthermore, you did NOT quote a study as I did"
.
No, I quoted an expert on molecular biology and food nutrition who is a professor at New York University (just as you cited one co-author and one professor). Color indicates the type of diet, not nutritional value. You even admit so, as you point out that feeding a chicken food coloring will affect the yolk color. Does food coloring add nutritional value? If it does, why are you opposed to its use (which is actually banned in the U.S., despite your claim that "they have to feed factory-chickens red dye")?
.
"When you get to college..."
.
I’ve been. More assumption.
.
"you'll learn that you must quote peer-reviewed studies for your statements, or you're outta there."
.
I guess you're "outta there;" the Mother Earth News study you cited is not peer-reviewed.
.
"You did ridicule the 1974 study by calling it 'old.'"
.
No. I said it wasn't "recent." It's not ridicule, but instead a factual observation.
.
"It might also interest you to know that Marion Nestle is a popular author"
.
And? You cited co-author Artemis Simopoulos.
.
"...and his statement was taken out of context on his food blog."
.
It might interest you to know that Nestle is a woman.
.
"He was regarding the feeding of red food based dyes (the carotenoids you refer to) in factory farmed eggs to assure consumers"
.
No, SHE wasn't. Or can you source this claim?
.
"Your anger still stands."
.
Assumption.
.
"My simple words explaining the pleasure in eating a fresh tasty egg, that my hands and animal husbandry have raised, do not make you feel happy."
.
Correct. I feel nothing but dismay towards your superiority complex.
.
"Anyone happier than you raises your ire."
.
If by "happier" you mean "willfully ignorant," then that does trouble me, especially when that ignorance is spread through lies.
.
"I can give you more studies regarding Beta Carotene in yolks, FYI."
.
Do so.
.
"The rest of your statements to me: liar, liar, incorrect, liar..."
.
All true.

"Brunners comment that I copied said nothing about the cost to the city."
.
No, not the comment you copied. Though, in the article, if you'll look a few lines above that comment of his that you copied, you'll find this: "Brunner listed concerns with the ordinance, saying it did not address permit fees, chicken coop requirements, needed vaccinations or slaughtering." This addresses costs and other concerns to the city.
Your copied comment also said nothing about his being concerned with what people do with their money, as you incorrectly claimed due to you having ignored his pretext, which you also copied.
.
"Again, why should a council member be concerned with how someone spends their money?"
.
Again, Brunner was concerned with the myth (perpetuated by Rollette herself) that chickens can be cared for simply by feeding them table scraps, and how the "oh, it's so easy" attitude displayed to try and get an ordinance changed could affect peoples' perception, since it does not give the true picture of the costs involved in raising hens, for both owners and the city.
.
"Voting against the ordinance change because the chickens might be too expensive for the owner..." is not what Brunner did, and requires one to misconstrue his comments to make such a claim. Please take more care in the future.

Southsidenancy... Bush lost. He lost big time. As in, Obama handed his gluteus to him on a platter. Get over it.
There are plenty of uber rightwinger Christian families so distrustful in the new "socialist government" they are for learning home food production, for when the bread lines start forming.
THen, there are the liberal hippies so distrustful of the mass produced food market that they want to learn to raise their own food.

Mooshoo- that's a very subjective statement. Some people believe that a neighbor with a messy garage or kids playing outside at 9:30 PM in the summer is a 'problem." It's all in how nosy and snarky said neighbor wants to be.

You state that Janesville does not enforce ordinances... if this is true... and these people want chickens so badly... wouldn't there already BE chickens in Jville? Given that the city won't do anything to enforce the no chickens rule, per your assertion?

"This "oh, it's so easy" attitude to try and get an ordinance changed does not give the true picture of the costs involved in raising hens, for both owners and the city."

Brunners comment that I copied said nothing about the cost to the city. Again, why should a council member be concerned with how someone spends their money? Voting against the ordinance change because the chickens might be too expensive for the owner is just as silly as trying to justify the ordinance because it's cheap.

I ask each of you on the bubble about chicken farming in Janesville two questions.
*
#1 Do you have a neighbor who cannot handle the responsibility of his/her kids, dogs, cats, relatives, spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, trash, house maintenance, yard, vehicles, visitors, junk, noise and respect for your property? Now imagine that neighbor with chickens.
*
#2 How well does the City of Janesville help you solve problems with neighbors who have difficulties with kids, dogs, cats, relatives, boyfriends, girlfriends, spouses, trash, house maintenance, yard, vehicles, visitors, junk, noise and respect for your property? Now imagine the City trying to solve your neighbors chicken problems, which are really your problems.
*
Does raising chickens in Janesville really sound like a good idea to you?

For the record, IT, you shouldn't take this all so personally. Banyan and I have gotten into it before, but I'd still invite her over for a fresh omelet and livestock discussion.

IT scribbles: It is elementary to realize that your attempt at anonymity is the result of unnecessary dishonesty.

"Attempt?" Explain why this is an attempt. Everyone here is anonymous... not due to dishonesty, but good common sense. There is no clause in the user agreements that one must choose a username based on his her demographic, location, or occupation.

You're simply angry because you thought a housewife would be easy to beat in a discussion on the specificity of carotenoids. I also happen to also know a lot about retinoids and Vitamin D, the active form of which is 1,25 Dihydroxy Vitamin D- and I didn't even have to google that!

If I were an angry lesser person, I would call you a LIAR by saying that my username is an "attempt" at anonymity. As it is, I realize you're just angry, misinformed, and probably young. And prone to miswording things.

Fresh home-grown eggs still rule! FTR, I HATE the word "foodie". My opinion is you're jealous that you must go to the store and pay $6 a box for your 2 week old free range eggs while I just pick them out of my backyard.

Leonid, I have yet to ever encounter a predator or stink from my chickens, and I have a good bunch. My dogs do a sweet job of guarding the place, though. I do concur, though, that city "wildlife"- coyotes, raccoons- have lost a good deal of their fear and may be more of a pest even if their is a dog present.

As an active member of urban chickens, however, I do want to point out most urban chicken owners don't have a problem with wildlife, it's primarily neighbor's domestic dogs and cats that destroy their chickens.

IT copies from a googled question.."Nestle explains that the color of a yolk is due specifically to carotenoids, which are natural pigments found in some plants. Some carotenoids, like beta-carotene, have nutritional value (our bodies convert beta-carotene into vitamin A, for instance). But deeper-colored egg yolks only indicate the presence of carotenoids in general, says Nestle, not necessarily the presence of beta-carotene. And other carotenoids that might be present 'may have antioxidant function, but they are not essential nutrients.'"

*AHEM* the multiple studies I quoted did not measure the amount of carotenoids- they measured the amounts of BETA CAROTENE. Specifically the amount of beta carotene, through HPLC. (high pressure liquid chromatography)
And yes, Beta carotene does get turned into Vitamin A, this is why it is called a PRECURSOR. Someone slept through Biochem. I do find it cute that you repeated what I said in middle school terms, though.

Furthermore, you did NOT quote a study as I did, but a simple article response, no doubt what you got when you googled the question. Nice try! When you get to college, you'll learn that you must quote peer-reviewed studies for your statements, or you're outta there.

You did ridicule the 1974 study by calling it "old." When you ridicule something, you give the impression that you view it as irrelevant. Would you like to tell us now that when you ridicule something, you find it worthwhile and believable? If so, you've been flattering a lot of people all along..

It might also interest you to know that Marion Nestle is a popular author on food corporations, and his statement was taken out of context on his food blog. He was regarding the feeding of red food based dyes (the carotenoids you refer to) in factory farmed eggs to assure consumers, not the presence of carotenoids in pastured chickens.

Your statement, as applied to the studies I quoted, still stands fallacious.

Your anger still stands. Case in point: My simple words explaining the pleasure in eating a fresh tasty egg, that my hands and animal husbandry have raised, do not make you feel happy. No, they raise in you feelings of jealousy, anger, and assumption that I am "gloating."

Anyone happier than you raises your ire. Tough cookies kiddo, your problem, not mine. I can give you more studies regarding Beta Carotene in yolks, FYI.

The rest of your statements to me: liar, liar, incorrect, liar... you have a far way to go before you can have an actual discussion with support to your statements.

Take a note: I didn't pick, call you a name, or question your moral character above, nor did I throw out one word responses. These are key points in honest, intellectual discussions. Give it a whirl!

Yes, why can't we all just post cliche-filled sound bites?!
'Tis folly to be wise...

We raised chickens on our farm as children. First off, i understand why people wish to raise them for consumption...look at the prices of food and quality. HOWEVER, unless you have a very spacious area around your home, with a very high fence, and a good trained dog, you will first have the smell to deal with in the summer...the varments that they WILL attract from their smell, and lastly they can be quite noisy if spooked. Listen....i still get it, but if you really want chickens, move to the country where they actually will be happier chickens !

Finally!! Short and sweet!

Ignorance is bliss.

Yes frogger, I skip them too. Isn't it nice they come in such a recognizable and repetitive format so they're easily identifiable?

Inconvenient-I can't tell you how to post, I can only tell you the way you do makes me (and probably most others) skip over yours. They are WAY too long and come off like nonsense. Maybe if you shortened them up and made a few valid points, it would help other understand where your coming from. Just an observation from someone that is wanting to hear all views.

IT- I wonder if many skip your comments like I do?

"What values would those be, Mr. Steeber? Closed mindedness?"
.
Yes, how typical of contemporary "discussion" - you don't agree with me, so you're just closed-minded. Almost as laughable as claiming that allowing urban chicken coops is inherently "progressive." Come on, man, all the cool kids are doing it. Don't you want to be cool, too?
.
"Mr. Brunner, why should anyone on the council be concerned about what people do with their own money?"
.
He's not concerned with what people do with their money. You completely ignored his pretext (even though you quoted it) regarding the myth (perpetuated by Rollette herself) that chickens can be cared for simply by feeding them table scraps. This "oh, it's so easy" attitude to try and get an ordinance changed does not give the true picture of the costs involved in raising hens, for both owners and the city.
.
"How are chickens related to arrows? Why should you be concerned about what motivates a person to have chickens?"
.
No one made such a comparison between chickens and arrows. The comparison regarded hobbies, and how not all hobbies are allowed within city limits. Again, you ignored context.

"You have made no points..."
.
Incorrect.
.
"asked no questions..."
.
Incorrect.
.
"made no assertions yet of value to the topic."
.
Incorrect.
.
"I was not going to make a point of free range vs factory egg nutrition without quoting my sources."
.
Redundant sources to make a singularly irrelevant point? Advocating people buy free-range eggs has no bearing on changing a city ordinance.
.
"Regarding my username, it's a USERNAME. It's ANONYMOUS. Therefor it's not dishonest. How elementary."
.
It is elementary to realize that your attempt at anonymity is the result of unnecessary dishonesty.
.
"Your dismissal of the British 1974 study is very sad"
.
I suppose, if I had actually dismissed anything. What are sad are your continuing delusions.
.
"just because data comes from before you were born does not mean it's irrelevant."
.
Where did I indicate it was "irrelevant"? Oh, yea, I never did. More dishonesty.
.
"It's obvious you have no interest in actual intellectual discourse," says the self-delusional liar who raises irrelevant tangential opinions about buying free-range eggs.
.
"Regarding yolk color vs nutritional content; your statement is fallacious."
.
No, it's not.
"The color doesn't reflect the nutrient value in any significant way." - Marion Nestle, Paulette Goddard Professor of Nutrition, Food Studies, and Public Health at New York University
.
"Beta Carotene, the precursor to Vitamin A, is what gives it the color."
.
"Nestle explains that the color of a yolk is due specifically to carotenoids, which are natural pigments found in some plants. Some carotenoids, like beta-carotene, have nutritional value (our bodies convert beta-carotene into vitamin A, for instance). But deeper-colored egg yolks only indicate the presence of carotenoids in general, says Nestle, not necessarily the presence of beta-carotene. And other carotenoids that might be present 'may have antioxidant function, but they are not essential nutrients.'" - http://site.qwapi.com/siteserver/site?t=...
.
"Also, a week old egg is fresh. A day old egg is fresh."
.
And yet you've only gloated about enjoying "an egg less than a day old" with "rich" flavor. You could not tell the difference in taste between a day old egg and a week old egg.
.
"Perhaps even your Twinkie coated tongue could..."
.
What a mature assumption.
.
"Mmmm.. think I'll have a tasty egg tomorrow, 100 percent organic and gathered an hour ago from a sweet hen I can pet..."
.
...OK? Congratulations? It's odd you word it so creepily, because you're basically publicly pleasuring yourself over how grand of a foodie you are.
.
"Speaking of hypocrisy, why are you attacking me for being for freedom of home food raising?"
.
Really? Quote where I've done any such thing, liar.
.
"Seems you are judgemental against those who are not slaves to Monsanto, IBP, and Premium Standard..."
.
Seems you're as presumptuously delusional as before.

"Still demanding attention like a spoiled toddler I see."
.
That's a laugh coming from the person who double-posted last time they made a (hypocritical) comment. Since by "demanding attention" you mean to indicate that I've posted comments, you'll want to reassess what it is you're doing here...unless you concede you're also "demanding attention"?
.
"Possibly you haven't noticed yet that you have nothing relevant or useful to say on this topic"
.
That's an interesting opinion you have there. Possibly you haven't noticed the facts that you're not a member of the Janesville community, and that just because other places allow chickens is not justification alone for Janesville to change their ordinance to do so as well? I have.
.
"Maybe next you can start repeating everything I say. Oh, wait…"
.
You mean...quoting you? I assume you understand what quotation is, and how it works, right?
.
"Most people actually have a brain and thus original ideas and so your battle should only get easier."
.
Yes, the "progressively" trendy eco-hipster fad of wanting to play urban farmer is such an original idea. You're a unique snowflake.
.
"As a general rule of thumb, I've noticed that JVL runs about 10 years behind the larger and more progressive coastal cities."
.
So it has dawned on you that Janesville isn't comparable to coastal metropolises? Because in your last post, that attempted comparison was your rationale for why Janesville should allow urban chicken coops. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
.
"So don't give up, it will just take some time for JVL to see that other cities are doing this and having no issues."
.
Wow. This pied-piper groupthink you and Allison display is apparently an inherent part of the city chicken coop craze. "But everyone else is doing it!" Yes, that's the most logical argument for anything, ever. You're really onto something.
.
"I think mostly people are afraid of the city becoming overrun with livestock"
.
Either an appeal to ridicule, or inability/unwillingness to comprehend the opposing view.
.
"I would guess less than 5% of residents would even take advantage of an ordinance like this."
.
Kind of like how only 80 people in all of Madison have taken advantage of their ordinance change?

frogger, I can appreciate that concern, and I think that is probably the concern of many in JVL. There is a tendency for people to think they can handle animals and then not give them the time or attention they need. One thing that limits the birds is only allowing hens, so people would only have as many birds as they buy – they aren’t breeding any new ones, which tends to keep things under control. I haven’t been aware of any issues with people out here neglecting their birds (as opposed to cats, dogs, exotic animals, horses, goats – just to name a few high profile cases recently). For the most part, the people who take advantage of the ordinance are people who want a closer connection with their food – tree huggers like my husband and me =)

We have several neighbors within our neighborhood with chickens and we didn’t even know until they told us – their immediate neighbors weren’t aware either! The one family keeps rather exotic chickens which lay green and blue eggs – I thought that was pretty cool ^_^

justme46- there is more than one person in this movie silly.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056869/
Suzanne is listed above this Tippy person. I don't remember the movie well. I believe Pleshette was a teacher. I just remember she was attacked by lots of birds. She was a teacher in Bob Newhart too.

Inconvient truth - dont flatter yourself by thinking I signed up just to respond to you. You are not as important as you might think that you are

The lead part in the movie "The Birds" is Tippy Hedgren, Melonie Griffeths mother. My oldest daughter is a replica of Tippy. She also was my moms favorite actress in those days. Sorry no more comments about the birdies, just wanted to let frogger know. Thanks!

bye-bye birdy.

EHW - That was exactly the breed we were considering!! There is a breeder nearby we were considering, but we need a little more land. I think I read about the breed in Mother Earth News... but I could be misremembering. I wish we lived in Iceland – we only visited. The food there is amazing!!

Geez, they voted it down get over it. Sounds to me like the chicken is done now stick a fork in it!

Zoom""“I think some people have the idea you can just feed them table scraps,” Brunner said. “They’re liable to spend a few hundred dollars, and I’m concerned about that.”"

They will need those hundreds for the Ice area and trash bags! haha

I don't think it would cost "hundreds" to feed 4 birds!

Banyan-"Why are people so terrified of birds (one too many viewings of the Alfred Hitchcock classic?)? "
Did you know the main lady in this movie is Emily from BOb Newhart?

I see another reason for KAB to want the chickens. The CASE building would sell and you can get your chicken feed there.

Banyan- I am torn on yes or no on the chickens. I am okay with it as long as people take care of them. So many cannot take care of their yard, trash, cats,junk, cars,junk cars, dogs, etc.

Zoom wrote-"How are chickens related to arrows?"
Well....How do you draw the bowstring back?....You pullet! LOL

Terrible joke, I know, but I couldn't help myself.

"Janesville is not Madison or Fort Atkinson, where they allow chickens, Steeber said.
“We are Janesville, with our own values.”"

Wow. What values would those be, Mr. Steeber? Closed mindedness?

"“I think some people have the idea you can just feed them table scraps,” Brunner said. “They’re liable to spend a few hundred dollars, and I’m concerned about that.”"

Mr. Brunner, why should anyone on the council be concerned about what people do with their own money? The same argument could be made for dogs or cats. How ridiculous. I'm wondering if you approved $2.5 million for the ice arena, without so much as a formal analysis.

"Voskuil, a council and plan commission member, defended the commission. She said members asked questions and referred to information from staff.
She said she suspects those who want chickens are interested in them more as a hobby. But some hobbies, such as archery, aren’t allowed in the city for obvious reasons, she said."

If the Plan Commission referred to information from staff, shouldn't the council, and city residents, know what information you based your decision on? Why no report?

How are chickens related to arrows? Why should you be concerned about what motivates a person to have chickens?

I would like to open a chicken feed store and slaughter house in Janesville if this ever gets through the council.

Also Banyan.... may I suggest a Dexter cow... they are small, compact, and the friendliest breed I have met. Your husband may just not be able to say no, and I'll buy your calves and extra milk..

Banyan99- You are so dead on.
And I am jealous of your having lived in iceland.

You need to put this discussion to bed because the chickens are NOT coming home to roost in Janesville.

IT: You have made no points, asked no questions, made no assertions yet of value to the topic. I was not going to make a point of free range vs factory egg nutrition without quoting my sources. Try it sometime.

Regarding my username, it's a USERNAME. It's ANONYMOUS. Therefor it's not dishonest. How elementary.

Your dismissal of the British 1974 study is very sad; the study was well conducted; just because data comes from before you were born does not mean it's irrelevant. Isaac Newton's news is ancient, yet his theories have yet to be disproved.

It's obvious you have no interest in actual intellectual discourse; you're an angry individual who likes to argue, that's all.
Regarding yolk color vs nutritional content; your statement is fallacious. Beta Carotene, the precursor to Vitamin A, is what gives it the color. Deeper natural color means more Beta Carotene. OR red dye content; obviously the type of 'nutrition' you prefer.

Also, a week old egg is fresh. A day old egg is fresh. The average age of a grocery store egg is 18 days, as quoted by the Illini Poultry Net study. I do believe I could taste the difference between a 18 day old egg and a day old egg. Perhaps even your Twinkie coated tongue could...

Mmmm.. think I'll have a tasty egg tomorrow, 100 percent organic and gathered an hour ago from a sweet hen I can pet...

Speaking of hypocrisy, why are you attacking me for being for freedom of home food raising? Seems you are judgemental against those who are not slaves to Monsanto, IBP, and Premium Standard...

Still demanding attention like a spoiled toddler I see. Possibly you haven't noticed yet that you have nothing relevant or useful to say on this topic - but we have. Maybe next you can start repeating everything I say. Oh, wait…

Good luck Allison - at least you know that most people you encounter aren't just ignorant, juvenile, and out to have start an argument. Most people actually have a brain and thus original ideas and so your battle should only get easier.

As a general rule of thumb, I've noticed that JVL runs about 10 years behind the larger and more progressive coastal cities. So don't give up, it will just take some time for JVL to see that other cities are doing this and having no issues. I think mostly people are afraid of the city becoming overrun with livestock, which I can appreciate. However, the vast majority of people are rather content having no part in the production of their own food. I would guess less than 5% of residents would even take advantage of an ordinance like this.

Maybe you could give it a couple more tries - maybe discourage the chicken costume next time as it seems to poke fun at the whole idea. ^_^ Can you put together some numbers from other communities? I think the council would be interested in percentages of residents in other communities applying to keep chickens, how many chickens are allowed per X number of lot sq. footage, how many (if any) violators there are for going over limits, what type of vaccinations are needed and if local vets have those available, what (if any) cost there is for the city. Maybe you could even have a meeting with one of the council members one-on-one so that you have enough time to get across the relevant information. I know JVL has a time limit on comments now at their meetings.

I wish you the best of luck. When we were in Iceland we had raw dairy and I’ve been trying to convince my husband to buy a cow for our backyard ever since!!

You're pretty talented at non sequitur, justin, as unintentional as I have a feeling it is. But you have yourself a nice night, too.

inconvenienttruth - do you puff out your chest and kick your dog before or after you write your books? Ya big bully. Have a nice night.

"I see inconvenienttruth is still fluffing there self but has yet to make any real point."
.
I see your ability to grasp someone's point is equal to your ability to grasp grammar/spelling.
.
"To requote someones quote over and over with out making a point."
.
I quote what people write. What someone writes is not a "quote" until it is quoted. So, no, I do not "requote someone's quote over and over." And look - by quoting you, and responding to it, I've made a point! Amazing!
.
"We can see you know how to use big words to make your self look smart."
.
Thanks; you should try it.
.
"But you only show how clueless you are"
.
Let's see if you can provide three examples of how I've been "clueless." Please do so or forfeit your assertion.

I see inconvenienttruth is still fluffing there self but has yet to make any real point.To requote someones quote over and over with out making a point.We can see you know how to use big words to make your self look smart .But you only show how clueless you are and far from the point.

"Huh. I was going to be all done with that last post"
.
Doubtful.
.
"but I wouldn't want you to think you had chased me off! ; ) Tantrums are generally angry. I am not angry in the least! Here's one for YOU, I/C!! www.cojchickens.wordpress.com
Type at ya later!!"
.
And the defiant indignation of your spam-tantrum continues. Surprise! Whatever consoles you in the face of the knowledge that your public relevance is now waning, and will soon vanish entirely...

"I have some experience - unlike other, fear mongering, long-winded posters."
.
This post is about as long as they come, and you posted it twice (what are you mongering?). Thanks for your hypocrisy.
.
"I live in a major metropolitan area (pop. approx. 3 million) which allows all sorts of animals...and I believe this is no different from JVL."
.
You mean besides the fact that the city you live in (which isn't named, so we can't verify your claims) is not Janesville? Thanks for parachuting in with your opinion.
.
"Does the city of JVL not already allow people to own birds?"
.
Indoors, as pets.
.
"what’s the difference if you’re keeping them in the house or in the yard?"
.
The definition of "livestock"?
.
"It should be noted that chickens produce only about 50 to 60 decibels of noise, comparable to a typewriter or dishwasher."
.
So any livestock capable of making noises of only a certain decibel level should be allowed in neighborhoods? Pigs, goats, sheep, etc all make equal or lesser noise than a barking dog. Following your logic, there is no reason why those animals should not be allowed.
.
"My sister has never had an animal go after her chickens."
.
Lucky her. Others have.
.
"She kept them in a coop at night (duh)"
.
Because that's the only time predators are active, and no animal is able to get into a coop?
.
"and in a fenced in yard during the day"
.
Raptors can fly.
.
"BTW – out here people have to protect their small pets for large birds of prey as well as other 4 legged predators – is that a reason to outlaw ‘toy’ breeds or cats?"
.
No, because cats and dogs are not livestock being raised and kept, 24/7, outdoors.
.
"Her chickens produce about 7.5 gallons of waste each in a year – just enough to fertilize her garden…We get our organic fertilizer from our neighbor’s horse and our compost bin."
.
Again, your logic unintentionally argues for a whole list of livestock, aside from chickens, to be allowed in urban environments.
.
"Why are people so terrified of birds?"
.
Yes, the only reasons against allowing urban livestock are the noise and feces. We're scared of it! An appeal to ridicule.
.
"What I’ve said above comes from actual experience living in a city which allows chickens."
.
Which is nice and all, but isn't justification for an ordinance change in Janesville.
.
"Another bonus to living in such an area – our grocery store carries local, organic, free-range eggs (and chickens) so I don’t have to deal with raising my own"
.
Local, organic, free-range eggs and chicken can be obtained throughout the area. You're also welcome to farm your own, just outside city limits. If it's that crucial to someone, and not just a fad hobby, they're free to relocate to accommodate their agriculture lifestyle.
.
"I sure am glad JVL kept that from happening for you all"
.
They haven't. They prevented a hobby involving livestock in the back yards of our neighborhoods from happening.

Huh. I was going to be all done with that last post, but I wouldn't want you to think you had chased me off! ; ) Tantrums are generally angry. I am not angry in the least! Here's one for YOU, I/C!! www.cojchickens.wordpress.com
Type at ya later!!

"Fishing is such a smelly, expensive hobby"
.
Which doesn't require the city to change an ordinance, doesn't add new costs due to registration/inspections/vaccinations/etc, doesn't involve livestock being kept and raised in neighborhoods...
.
"and you can just buy the fish from the store."
.
And you can just buy eggs from the store.
.
"What about the potential for trespass on other people's property?"
.
An issue that's already covered.
.
"The littering, too"
.
An issue that's already covered.
.
"So MANY things to worry about that do not actually concern me."
.
Unlike the issue of livestock being raised and kept in urban neighborhoods.
Wow. I can't believe you thought any of that was clever...

"Interesting tidbit for any naysayers who believe that they HAVE "dodged the bullet" on this issue... The proposed urban hen ordinance was not even from my group. *** More importantly, I would like to specifically point out that we did not technically LOSE anything. The City Staff's proposed ordinance was not adopted. It was
not defeated... It was specifically not adopted. There was a motion
and second to not adopt the proposed chicken permission ordinance."
.
So you're still throwing that public tantrum, eh? "You can't tell us what to do forever! We'll show you, and you'll be sorry!" *door slam* What's next; going to run away?

"Oh yes, allowing corporate farms to control everything you eat is so much wiser!"
.
And your delusional insistence that "corporate farms control everything," is anything but "wise." In fact, it's a lie that requires you to ignore my factual assertion that there are other options for purchase besides "corporate/factory." And you know it. Your dishonesty-as-talking point shows the weakness of your argument.
.
"Regarding plates of fresh eggs vs. store eggs, DUH, I raise my own eggs..."
.
Which has nothing to do with whether you could taste the difference between a plate of scrambled eggs made from a day old egg and a plate of scrambled eggs made from a week old egg...odd you completely avoided that point, and moved right along to...
"I LIVE in a rural area, YES it is interesting and diverse. Janesville, not so much."
.
So then you're opinion on the matters of the city of Janesville, a place you don't live in or care for in the least, is irrelevant. I might as well start acting as though what transpires in Evansville has any impact on me, or that my opinions on the city of Evansville should hold weight there. Then again, I'm clearly not as delusional as you, so I won't.
.
"(hint: not a housewife)"
.
So...dishonesty is habitual with you? I see. This also doesn't address your rationalizing through condescension of her neighbor that speaks to your apparent hypocritical values.
.
"Maybe you're so into eating only bland, mega-processed food..."
.
Maybe. An irrelevant point, regardless. Again, you ignore that "factory/corporate" food is not the only option available for purchase. But, if I were "so into" something that's being allowed and provided, that's my choice, isn't it? We're SO glad you enjoy the food you eat, but your condescending badgering won't change what/how others eat.
.
"Twinkies are technically food; they are still crap."
.
No, they're sugar. "Crap" is your opinion of them. You don't have to eat something if you don't like it.
.
"Perhaps you think that a Woodman's tomato tastes the same as one from a backyard garden"
.
Perhaps, in your arrogance, you forgot to make a relevant point.
.
"it is a matter of personal opinion."
.
Exactly. It is. And yet you act as if one should be demeaned for having their own. Please, oh "progressive" one, show the unwashed masses what/how we should really eat!

"Check it:In 1974, the British Journal of Nutrition found that pastured eggs had 50 percent more folic acid and 70 percent more vitamin B12 than eggs from factory farm hens."
.
Not what one would call "recent" information, is it?
Anyway, your point is that one should buy "pastured," or free-range, eggs? Alright; I'm sure we'll all take that into consideration.
.
"In 1988, Artemis Simopoulos, co-author of The Omega Diet, found pastured eggs in Greece contained 13 times more omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids than U.S. commercial eggs."
.
Got it. Free-range eggs. Currently available for purchase at many locations.
.
"A 1998 study in Animal Feed Science and Technology found that pastured eggs had higher omega-3s and vitamin E than eggs from caged hens."
.
Getting a little redundant...
.
"A 1999 study by Barb Gorski at Pennsylvania State University found that eggs from pastured birds..."
.
You're beating a dead bird. Is there a point? None of this has yet justified changing an ordinance in a city your name suggests you don't live in.
.
"In 2003, Heather Karsten at Pennsylvania State University compared eggs from two groups of Hy-Line variety hens, with one kept in standard crowded factory farm conditions..."
.
You don't have a point beyond "buy free-range," do you?
You could've just wrote that you think people should buy free-range because they offer better nutritional value, if that was all you had to share. It's a valid opinion, but it really has no bearing on the issue covered in this article or discussion.

"Inconvienttruth - You sound like a bitter unhappy lonely person. Keep your self-rightous opinions to yourself".
.
And you started an account here just to tell me that, huh? Gee, 'cindylou' couldn't possibly be a fake account by someone who's already been posting here under another, could it?
Regardless, seems you're a little bitter and unhappy. Lonely, too, if you're that desperate to reach out to me. Also, to join just to tell me that, only to then tell me I should keep my opinions to myself, is not only pretty self-righteous of you, but extremely hypocritical as well. But thanks for showing just how much importance you place in me. Thanks!

Interesting tidbit for any naysayers who believe that they HAVE "dodged the bullet" on this issue... The proposed urban hen ordinance was not even from my group. *** More importantly, I would like to specifically point out that we did not technically LOSE anything. The City Staff's proposed ordinance was not adopted. It was
not defeated... It was specifically not adopted. There was a motion
and second to not adopt the proposed chicken permission ordinance.

For those actually interested in the topic, I have some experience – unlike other, fear mongering, long-winded posters. I live in a major metropolitan area (pop. approx. 3 million) which allows all sorts of animals – including chickens, all with specific requirements. Each residence may have 2 dogs for example (unless you are a licensed breeder), and I believe this is no different from JVL. Other animals have more specific requirements; Cows, for example, require an acre per animal, as do horses, plus there are specific shelter requirements. Does the city of JVL not already allow people to own birds? We kept birds in JVL when I was a kid – what’s the difference if you’re keeping them in the house or in the yard? Should such a regulation exist for your dog or cat?

I keep a dog at my house. She is a fantastic watchdog and barks whenever someone enters our yard or approaches our children. My sister keeps chickens. My dog’s bark (up to 120 decibels) is audible for approximately a 3 block radius, where as my sister’s chickens can’t be heard until you are nearly on top of them. It should be noted that chickens produce only about 50 to 60 decibels of noise, comparable to a typewriter or dishwasher. My sister’s chickens are in her backyard and you can’t hear them from the side yard, driveway, inside the house, from the front yard or side walk.

My yard (with my 80 pound dog) has visitors including a family of raccoons, coyote, and a murder of crows. My sister has never had an animal go after her chickens. She kept them in a coop at night (duh) and in a fenced in yard during the day – for their protection. (BTW – out here people have to protect their small pets for large birds of prey as well as other 4 legged predators – is that a reason to outlaw ‘toy’ breeds or cats? Because they attract predators?) Her chickens produce about 7.5 gallons of waste each in a year – just enough to fertilize her garden. My dog produces that in a week (for you math buffs, that’s 390 gallons), and it all goes to the dump. We get our organic fertilizer from our neighbor’s horse and our compost bin.

Noise and poop arguments are just that, noise and BS – and in this case that B stands for ‘bird’! Why are people so terrified of birds (one too many viewings of the Alfred Hitchcock classic?)? What I’ve said above comes from actual experience living in a city which allows chickens. Another bonus to living in such an area – our grocery store carries local, organic, free-range eggs (and chickens) so I don’t have to deal with raising my own but I get all the health benefits which have already been outlined (thanks for putting all that together ^_^)! I sure am glad JVL kept that from happening for you all – wow really dodged a bullet there …

Fishing is such a smelly, expensive hobby.. and you can just buy the fish from the store. In addition.. what about the potential for trespass on other people's property? The littering, too... So MANY things to worry about that do not actually concern me. ; )

For those actually interested in the topic, I have some experience – unlike other, fear mongering, long-winded posters. I live in a major metropolitan area (pop. approx. 3 million) which allows all sorts of animals – including chickens, all with specific requirements. Each residence may have 2 dogs for example (unless you are a licensed breeder), and I believe this is no different from JVL. Other animals have more specific requirements; Cows, for example, require an acre per animal, as do horses, plus there are specific shelter requirements. Does the city of JVL not already allow people to own birds? We kept birds in JVL when I was a kid – what’s the difference if you’re keeping them in the house or in the yard? Should such a regulation exist for your dog or cat?

I keep a dog at my house. She is a fantastic watchdog and barks whenever someone enters our yard or approaches our children. My sister keeps chickens. My dog’s bark (up to 120 decibels) is audible for approximately a 3 block radius, where as my sister’s chickens can’t be heard until you are nearly on top of them. It should be noted that chickens produce only about 50 to 60 decibels of noise, comparable to a typewriter or dishwasher. My sister’s chickens are in her backyard and you can’t hear them from the side yard, driveway, inside the house, from the front yard or side walk.

My yard (with my 80 pound dog) has visitors including a family of raccoons, coyote, and a murder of crows. My sister has never had an animal go after her chickens. She kept them in a coop at night (duh) and in a fenced in yard during the day – for their protection. (BTW – out here people have to protect their small pets for large birds of prey as well as other 4 legged predators – is that a reason to outlaw ‘toy’ breeds or cats? Because they attract predators?) Her chickens produce about 7.5 gallons of waste each in a year – just enough to fertilize her garden. My dog produces that in a week (for you math buffs, that’s 390 gallons), and it all goes to the dump. We get our organic fertilizer from our neighbor’s horse and our compost bin.

Noise and poop arguments are just that, noise and BS – and in this case that B stands for ‘bird’! Why are people so terrified of birds (one too many viewings of the Alfred Hitchcock classic?)? What I’ve said above comes from actual experience living in a city which allows chickens. Another bonus to living in such an area – our grocery store carries local, organic, free-range eggs (and chickens) so I don’t have to deal with raising my own but I get all the health benefits which have already been outlined (thanks for putting all that together ^_^)! I sure am glad JVL kept that from happening for you all – wow really dodged a bullet there …

You can fish in the city.

JUST imagine what would happen if we tried to legalize fishing in the Rock river within city limits.

EHW- then I recommend the snobby city slickers get to know some of the local farmers and get some fresh eggs. WOW that was easy!

Southsidenancy or who ever you are. This is about CHICKENS.

Zoom you don't like the winter orange tomato w/o flavor?

EHW- I am pretty sure anybody can look at tomato in the winter and know it is no good. But we cannot grow tomatoes in the winter now CAN WE? Sure you can can them(fresh in the summer) but I wouldn't enjoy a canned tomato on my fresh green salad. YUK! I buy the ones on the vine or the grape ones. They are not so bad.

gfan- I give he/she a week and then the next new name will be PAT.

Zoom outed Hank/SSNancy on the other story. He/She better watch his/her Ps and Qs.

SouthsideNancy - What's up Hank.

A little off topic, but yes, grocery store tomatos have been so genetically evolved for increased shelf life that they no longer have any tase.

Inconvenienttruth... Oh yes, allowing corporate farms to control everything you eat is so much wiser! Allowing a corporation whose bottom line is profit, not health, to be your provider of sustenance is fine. Go ahead and drink that Kool Aid.

Regarding plates of fresh eggs vs. store eggs, DUH, I raise my own eggs, I LIVE in a rural area, YES it is interesting and diverse. Janesville, not so much. (hint: not a housewife)

Maybe you're so into eating only bland, mega-processed food that you have absolutely no palate for actual true food anymore. Twinkies are technically food; they are still crap. Perhaps you think that a Woodman's tomato tastes the same as one from a backyard garden; it is a matter of personal opinion. I, myself, can totally taste the difference. I like fresh, you can savor your canned crap.

Also, remember NAIS? It's been dumped. The feds have trashed the program. yay!

As far as the genius who thinks "progressive" means taking freedom away; how is putting rules on what people can do with their property progressive? Does it not put more power into the food lobbyists, as well the government, when people are not able to grow or produce their own food?

Check it:In 1974, the British Journal of Nutrition found that pastured eggs had 50 percent more folic acid and 70 percent more vitamin B12 than eggs from factory farm hens.
In 1988, Artemis Simopoulos, co-author of The Omega Diet, found pastured eggs in Greece contained 13 times more omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids than U.S. commercial eggs.
A 1998 study in Animal Feed Science and Technology found that pastured eggs had higher omega-3s and vitamin E than eggs from caged hens.
A 1999 study by Barb Gorski at Pennsylvania State University found that eggs from pastured birds had 10 percent less fat, 34 percent less cholesterol, 40 percent more vitamin A, and four times the omega-3s compared to the standard USDA data. Her study also tested pastured chicken meat, and found it to have 21 percent less fat, 30 percent less saturated fat and 50 percent more vitamin A than the USDA standard.
In 2003, Heather Karsten at Pennsylvania State University compared eggs from two groups of Hy-Line variety hens, with one kept in standard crowded factory farm conditions and the other on mixed grass and legume pasture. The eggs had similar levels of fat and cholesterol, but the pastured eggs had three times more omega-3s, 220 percent more vitamin E and 62 percent more vitamin A than eggs from caged hens.
The 2005 study Mother Earth News conducted of four heritage-breed pastured flocks in Kansas found that pastured eggs had roughly half the cholesterol, 50 percent more vitamin E, and three times more beta carotene.

Can KAB choke her own chicken? I don't think she has the right chicken parts ! )

Inconvienttruth - You sound like a bitter unhappy lonely person. Keep your self-rightous opinions to yourself

Somebody shoulda choked that chicken.

Allison:
I understand what you meant regarding Twitter. I asked your reasoning behind it, not only because your use of social media is irrelevant to the validity of an ordinance change, but because it again apparently amounts to nothing more than "we should do it because others are." This is something your parents should have taught you back when you were a child; that, if your friend jumps off a bridge, it doesn't mean you necessarily should, too. That logical lesson was apparently not impressed upon you enough, as that's repeatedly your fallback argument. And it's NOT a valid one. Also invalid are your hyperbolic appeals to ridicule and stubborn use of spam, which yes, both amounts to a sort of tantrum, like a child's defiant indignance towards their parents for not letting them do what their friends' parents let them do. You've shown yourself incapable of providing real need/cause, regardless of precedent, for this city to fund and support the implementation of citywide changes to accommodate your fringe hobby, and your condescending and hypocritical responses justifies not only this city's and the majority of its residents' opinion, but also your failure to achieve your goal. You're absolutely for the birds, and you laid an egg as a result. Now your chickens have come home to roost. Enjoy your impending return to obscurity among the narrow minded, backwards-thinking masses.

evansvillehousewife:
Why is owning urban livestock inherently "progressive," when the practice of agriculture dates back millennia? Raising more and more of your own food is actually a reversion. There's a reason why rural and urban areas allow for different lifestyles, and there's a reason why farmers make a living on their agriculture - it's almost all they have time for. But someone thinks it's eco/animal friendly, a cute idea, a hobby, and so they want to play farmer for the benefit of some eggs at a profit loss to them and an additional hassle/cost to the city to accommodate a fad faction. You toss around the word "progressive," like you're fighting for civil rights, when it's really for special treatment incongruent to the type of lifestyle afforded in the location you've chosen to live in. "Progressive"? Get over yourself.

"Look at Madison, New York... vibrant, interesting, diverse cities with thriving economies. THey allow chickens."
.
So do rural areas. Are they vibrant, interesting, and diverse? You're welcome to relocate if owning hens for the economic benefit of their eggs is so necessary to your life.
.
"Janesville, on the other hand, has its own 'values'... lower to middle class people that try to rationalize their self-worth by spying on their neighbors and finding things to poke fun at."
.
Would that be like a housewife from Evansville rationalizing through condescension of her neighbor? It sure speaks to your values...
.
"Well, go on eating your non-food, contaminated, factory farmed eggs."
.
Not all eggs are factory farmed. All eggs, regardless of source, are food. None are "contaminated."
.
"I'll enjoy the rich flavor of an egg less than a day old."
.
The taste difference would be minimal, not "rich," and I'd challenge you to eat two plates of scrambled eggs, one made from a day old egg and one from a week old egg, and tell the difference.
.
"Did you know they have to feed factory-chickens red dye, otherwise their yolks would be grey due to lack of sunlight and Beta carotene?"
.
Again, factory eggs are not your only option.
Did you know they don't "have to," and in most cases such a practice is banned? Did you know that sunlight plays no part in the coloring of the yolk, only diet? Did you know yolk color is no indication of nutritional content?

What if I don't want the chicken for more than just the eggs? What if I want to eat some chicken. Can I ax it's head off on a stump right in town? Oh, I can see it now! Then people would really have a problem!

"A flock of hens is wonderful, soothing, and fun to raise, Kids love them"
.
I agree...ON A FARM! Seriously, who wants their next door neighbors to raise chickens in their back yards? You have got to be kidding me lol.

I must repost a bostonbill comment. It is funny!
On Man wants change in chicken ordinance

Posted on November 16 at 9:50 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Is there any way a snow plow can be attached to a chicken? Just a thought.

I/T.. I meant that I receive several tweets per week with newspaper headlines regarding urban hen keeping on agendas in other towns. I don't post Tweets very often. I use facebook and wordpress most often. I am not throwing a tantrum by posting my link.. I have been posting valid arguments on this issue, and links to my work on this project as soon as they were available to post, since November. Go ahead. Pull my statements apart, sentence by sentence. Enjoy! (Again, I am "being presumptuous" that you would enjoy any of my posts.. etc etc etc... ; )

vulcanicflower;
"hens can make just as much noise as a rooster."
Obviously you have never been around chickens much in your life. THat is such a BS statement. So false.

Janesville simply isn't progressive enough to deal with urban chickens. Look at Madison, New York... vibrant, interesting , diverse cities with thriving economies. THey allow chickens. Janesville, on the other hand, has its own "values"... lower to middle class people that try to rationalize their self-worth by spying on their neighbors and finding things to poke fun at.

Well, go on eating your non-food, contaminated, factory farmed eggs. I'll enjoy the rich flavor of an egg less than a day old.

Did you know they have to feed factory-chickens red dye, otherwise their yolks would be grey due to lack of sunlight and Beta carotene?

Zythia and all you other proponents, congrats on your efforts and i truly feel for you. A flock of hens is wonderful, soothing, and fun to raise, Kids love them. I wish they would perhaps allow a small coop in the community gardens.

"Calm down."
.
A disingenuous suggestion, as you're assuming (incorrectly) my actual state.
.
"Avert your eyes if it's hurting ya!"
.
It's not "hurting" me. Yet more assumption.
If you spam in a comment section, I'm just as able to point it out. I don't have to ignore it just because you want me to (notice I didn't tell you to do anything regarding your spam).
.
"Because you are so correct on the urban hen issue. The debate just STOPS with you. Stops right here. You are right. I am wrong."
.
What insecure childishness. I've offered my logical opinion in contrast to your own opinion. If replies like this, or, "I don't think that is really a necessary debate," or, "I have better things to do with my time than argue with people who will NEVER 'get it'" are examples of your rebuttals, maybe you shouldn't openly debate your opinion, as you're clearly the one who believes you're unquestionable, e.g. "If every naysayer had been allowed to state their concerns as a question, and have that question answered, there would have been nothing left to say. Every time a naysayer opened their mouth, I wanted to raise my hand, and say: 'OoooOohh! Call on me!! Pick ME!! I know the answer!!!'"
Interesting...
.
"What a horrible, down-right dangerous thing to do"
.
Appeal to ridicule.
.
"Ignore the countless cites that allow it, please. Ignore the stores that cater to people who keep hens as PETS, please."
.
That others cater to/do something someplace else is not carte blanche for you to expect to do it where you are. A city doesn't have to change its laws just because you want your hobby to be accommodated for. Until you can actually persuade OUR representatives in the government of THIS city that a majority of its residents want/support urban livestock, you have no recourse. You're now starting to throw a bit of a public temper-tantrum (your spamming being a part of such).
.
"CLEARLY -- the City of Janesville is full of a bunch of people that we must all hate and despise for no discernible reason, that will obviously NOT be able to handle a few hens in their yard."
.
More appeal to ridicule. Your hyperbole doesn't help you. Again, just because people can handle doing something is not sufficient reason alone to let them do so.
.
"And there is NO WAY Janesville could set up THEIR ordinance in a way that would work for Janesville, because Janesville is CLEARLY not capable of doing so."
.
Yet another reliance on the faulty premise that, just because we can, we should.
.
"Isn't that what some of you are REALLY trying to say???"
.
More appeal to ridicule. Why put words in others' mouths?
.
"I COULD start 'spamming' everyone with a Google alert"
.
I wouldn’t put it past you.
.
"I get several tweets per week."
.
Sounds like a personal problem...
Yes, yes, and the last time you reported your social media status to the Gazette you had 24 Twitter followers and 80+ Facebook friends. Congratulations! What's your point?

controlledchaos, what a rude comment!! Do you live in the 4th ward? If not then leave them alone!! You have no right to insult them like that.

mentor397: What did my previous post have anything to do with your pretentiousness?
Yes, how very observant of you to notice I've shown an interest in this topic. Your insinuations as to my sleep and health in relation to that interest are simply disingenuous. If this is a topic not worthy of consideration ("I mean, they're JUST chickens"), why are you also here posting multiple comments on it?
Hopefully you'll consider your hypocrisy before displaying it further.

What a cliched insinuation, justin. Lengths of posts vary as warranted in relation to the substance of a discussion. Apparently all your thoughts are blurb-length (with a fairly high ratio of site staff removals)? I pity you, if so.

Inconvenient: Regarding your last post, and you called me pretentious? Hahaha. I can tell this is a hot-button issue for you, judging by the sheer volume of your comments. Tell me, are you sleeping well? How is your health? I mean, they're JUST chickens. Calm down a bit.

Oh. To answer your question.. I do believe that was the third time I posted the link.

Just trying to reach interested parties, I/T... Calm down. Avert your eyes if it's hurting ya! At least I generally try to keep my posts civil.. Figured this blog was about done; I thought I would add a link at the top. You know.. because you are so correct on the urban hen issue. The debate just STOPS with you. Stops right here. You are right. I am wrong. All the people that want to have hens in Janesville are wrong. Let's say ALL of the people around the state, country and world that keep hens in their town or city, legally, with no problems, for WHATEVER reason, including keeping them as PETS... they are ALL wrong. And YOU, I/T... along with ALL of the other naysayers in Janesville are CORRECT. What a horrible, down-right dangerous thing to do -- keeping hens in the city limits!! (Ignore the countless cites that allow it, please. Ignore the stores that cater to people who keep hens as PETS, please.) CLEARLY -- the City of Janesville is full of a bunch of people that we must all hate and despise for no discernible reason, that will obviously NOT be able to handle a few hens in their yard. And there is NO WAY Janesville could set up THEIR ordinance in a way that would work for Janesville, because Janesville is CLEARLY not capable of doing so. Isn't that what some of you are REALLY trying to say??? I COULD start "spamming" everyone with a Google alert each time another city approves hens in town (which happens more often than not...) It's like hands clapping.. another fairy gets it's wings! I get several tweets per week.

What a vapid observation, justin. Lengths of posts vary as warranted in relation to the substance of a discussion. Apparently all your thoughts are blurb-length (with a fairly high ratio of site staff removals)? I pity you, if so.

Interesting spam, Allison. Is it the third or fourth time you've posted a link to your blog in this comment section alone? More?

www.cojchickens.wordpress.com

Everyone complaining about the issue being a big deal is making is making it bigger. For everyone freaked out about the crazies who want chickens in the cities there are those who are shocked at the loonies who don't want chickens.

For being "just chickens", there is a lot of anger on this issue.

inconvenienttruth - are you feeling alright? Your post was only three lines long. Where's the book you usually have to write to attempt to get your point accross?

Really?! You're still so childish as to be peddling this blatant lie AGAIN? Do you enjoy ironically assassinating what little character you possess in the attempt to do so to another's? If so, continue on.

B'moon is in the photo (first one on the left behind the woman with the dark sweater). She and one of her pals are reading instead of reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

KAB embarrassing the city of Janesville? NEVER. Oops I mean often.

Do they allow chickens in the circus?

Spark we have more issues to resolve!

bostonbill- hank=KAb- That is what I said a few days ago. The rants and WONT give it up already seem very familiar!

I don't believe it would be a big deal.
I do agree they will have more complaints to chase after. We cannot afford that according to them and I will toss in but we can seem to find money for multi million wants.

Cost saving- I don't think so. I would guess it would cost more to raise your own eggs. You need to feed the birds!

I don't think they wander very far past their coop.

To bad the coop was of KAB was taken down.
AAAHHHHHH I see who is behind all of this!

Is it legal to have a coop on an empty lot if CHICKENS live there?

MOOSHOO- was it KAB in the suit? Makes sence to me! I will not vote for a clown or a chicken!

dumbledorf- some of us do have jobs and cannot be off for this silliness. Email city council they will hear you but listen I doubt it.

It's the city for christ sake! You want to raise farm animals, move to the country. Have you all lost your minds? We have bigger issues than chickens. The IQ level is alarming.

they're not their. My bad! Still laughing though.

Oh please! Fox and coyote attacks??? Only if their rabid and then it doesn't matter if the chicken is there or not. I raised chickens as a young person out in the country. I'm sure there were fox, coyotes and even some wild dogs running around and NEVER saw a one of them.

Allow chickens or don't, I really don't care, but these Chicken Little "sky is falling" reasons for not allowing them are funny.

In my humble opinion, THIS WHOLE ISSUE IS FOR THE BIRDS!!! I agree with the predators coming around more if people have chickens. We live in town and have seen fox and coyotes, just think you could walk out your door and be attacked just so you can have a "fresh" egg, now come on!!! As for the bird costume, that is a total embarrassment for Janesville and Wisconsin. I am sure we will make the national news over a couple hens, how absurd!!!

I just can't take this request for backyard chicken-raising seriously. C'mon people, really? Raise your hand if you want your next door neighbors raising chickens. It's hard enough to sell a house in this city as it is. Yikes.

I think "Rudy the Roosterette" is HILARIOUS! Is she for hire? Maybe I could employ her services at my grand opening next month......
.
A serious issue? Oh ok. Unemployment, heroin, crime and a free falling housing market are serious topics. To chicken or not to chicken...that's a dinner choice and isn't that serious.
.
Besides, all this publicity will probably only EGG her on :)

Uh oh, I think the plug was finally pulled on Hank.

Chickens belong on farms, not in cities. They will attract possum, raccoon, and skunk. If the coop is not kept clean the hens can develop foot diseases. Also, you should not just feed them table scraps, they need nourishment as well if you intend to consume or sell their eggs. Hens can make just as much noise as a rooster.

I just can hold back any longer. Our city and the economy has issues. As does every other city in America right now. The headline photo has some dweeb dressed up in a chicken costume. How absolutely embarrassing to this city. How can anyone be taken seriously with that type mindset.

No, "who's on first!"

"Let me understand. You've got the hen, the chicken and the rooster. The rooster goes with the chicken. So, who's having sex with the hen?"

"Not really"
.
Yes. Really.
.
"Not everyone runs their lawn equipment, construction equipment, and every other type of noise-generating machinery on the same day at the same time!"
.
Exactly.
.
"Please add air conditioning units...to the list of urban noises much more disturbing than a few hens."
.
That would be a lie.
.
"The list of human-generated, urban noise pollution could go on forever..."
.
So your argument is "why not add to it"? Clever.
.
"YES! And, thus would also be covered by current ordinances!"
.
You said it'd be better than negligence. That's a non-argument when negligence is against ordinance.
.
"same for any other new business, apartment building, or new pet venture."
.
Incorrect. "Any new" businesses and buildings attract predators? No, they do not. What is a "new pet venture"?
.
"and, as you noted, if owners aren't being responsible, there are already ordinances to cover those incidents."
.
Responsibility has nothing to do with the fact that chicken coops can very likely attract more predators. That's what's known as "nature."
.
"Sustainability ......sometimes is more expensive."
.
In the case of a chicken coop for four hens, not "sometimes;" always.
.
"Many would rather pay more to know how their food is produced, know how it was cared for, know how it was "harvested", know how it was prepared....and know they were able to provide it for themselves."
.
A profit loss is not "sustainability." The term you're looking for is "self-sufficiency," and really it's on such a small scale as to be negligible. As was stated at the City Council meeting, this amounts to a novel hobby.
.
"Education?...ask any 4-H participant!"
.
Then you're welcome to raise livestock according to ordinance if you think an education in raising chickens is so crucial. The responsibilities learned from raising a pet can currently be gained with household animals. You're arguing for redundancy.
.
"Shall we limit pet ownership to fish and reptiles if someone is allergic to fur-bearing, 'acceptable' pets?"
.
...Birds? Hedgehogs? Allergies are not fur, but dander, related. I'm not aware of anyone that is allergic to all "fur-bearing" mammals. Also, pets are something domesticated that live in a home, not something raised for an economic purpose.
.
"Hen ownership IS legal in the 'out-laying areas' WITHIN the city limits."
.
'City-limits' is not the same as 'within a city,' as I stated.

Why did the chicken cross the road?
-
To get out of the city.

Kind of like how your lies about knowing Briarmoon isn't saying the Pledge of Allegiance in this story's accompanying photo reveals your bias?

FYI, inconvenienttruth:

"These are run for a short period, with days, if not weeks, inbetween use"......Not really when you have multiple neighbors in an urban setting. Not everyone runs their lawn equipment, construction equipment, and every other type of noise-generating machinery on the same day at the same time! Please add air conditioning units (both commercial and residential) that run 24/7 to the list of urban noises much more disturbing than a few hens. The list of human-generated, urban noise pollution could go on forever...

"All against current ordinance.".....YES! And, thus would also be covered by current ordinances! Hen ownership would also fall under these controls for the few who MIGHT be irresponsible and thus, not a valid reason to deny ownership. Given the negligible related intervention of city staffs regarding the same in other cities, this is clearly not an issue for tax payers.

"Could even more be attracted if more coops were allowed legally? Very possibly."....same for any other new business, apartment building, or new pet venture. Do the deer downtown making their way to the river attract wolves? There are ample easy and inexpensive safeguards for animal owners no matter what type of animal is owned and, as you noted, if owners aren't being responsible, there are already ordinances to cover those incidents.

Sustainability" ......sometimes is more expensive. If someone wants to work and spend their money to keep heritage breeds alive, the earth we live on more intact, and more, who is anyone else to judge? Many would rather pay more to know how their food is produced, know how it was cared for, know how it was "harvested", know how it was prepared....and know they were able to provide it for themselves.

"Education?"...ask any 4-H participant! Ask anyone who can remember urban chickens in almost every Wisconsin city until the 1960s what they learned in those backyards about the chickens (and yes, even goats), their family, self-reliance, responsibility, their food, and more. There is no better education that participating and doing.

"Buy a pet, one that can preferably live indoors, if you're lonely."...Shall we limit pet ownership to fish and reptiles if someone is allergic to fur-bearing, "acceptable" pets?

"If you want to live an agricultural lifestyle, you're more than free to move. It is not discrimination that farms are not allowed within a city."......Hen ownership IS legal in the "out-laying areas" WITHIN the city limits. This is discrimination against those who live closer in the urban area because we all pay the same taxes but are not provided the same rights within city limits. A question I'd like to see answered....if someone in a downtown residential area was able to buy a few adjacent lots and had the required space from other buildings to follow the distance requirements, would hen ownership then be allowed??? How is "outlaying" defined?

Hank's nonsense about knowing people's IP reveals his paranoia.

"far less noisy than a neighbors leaf blower, lawn mower and snow blower"
.
These are run for a short period, with days, if not weeks, inbetween use. Chickens, last I checked, live (and thus make noise) on a daily basis for years.
.
"less 'unsightly' than a neighbors abandoned vehicles, falling down dog house and run"
.
All against current ordinance. Not really the best comparative measurement, eh?
.
"less attracting of vermin than the feral cats"
.
And yet, more attracting of predators. Yes, predators are currently present. However, could this be due to the admitted illegal chicken coops already in the city, as cited by Rollette? Very possibly. Could even more be attracted if more coops were allowed legally? Very possibly.
.
"over-flowing trash dumpsters at apartments and businesses."
.
Also against ordinance.
.
"Those who oppose the raising of a few chickens for sustainability"
.
The cost of the chickens, their coop, feeding, and care/maintenance exceeds the gains of some eggs. It is a profit loss.
.
"education"
.
What education?
.
"companionship"
.
Buy a pet, one that can preferably live indoors, if you're lonely.
.
"food"
.
Again, profit loss.
.
"and much more"
.
Such as?
.
"discriminating against downtown city residents by banning hens..."
.
If you want to live an agricultural lifestyle, you're more than free to move. It is not discrimination that farms are not allowed within a city.

Oops....trying, ordinance. Wouldn't want the spell-check police to discredit my entire post because of two words.

"She said she suspects those who want chickens are interested in them more as a hobby. But some hobbies, such as archery, aren’t allowed in the city for obvious reasons, she said."

So, are people planning on using chickens as possible weapons?

Thanks, topsgt132. Hank or whatever is dissembling under the pressure of exposure. He hasn't gotten to my house yet. Chicken, indeed.

Whether you're Allison Rollette or not is the least of concerns; I've already stated I assumed you to be who you said.
.
"I did not 'stumble across' ANYTHING "
.
This conflicts with your previous statements: "Rollette went online in October and 'uncovered this whole chicken world.' She found chat groups, webinars, podcasts, Web sites. She found that some cities, such as Green Bay and Madison, allow chickens and that Fort Atkinson never disallowed them. She found books and a documentary at the library.
'As I was delving into this, I thought: ‘Holy cow, people are obsessed with it,’' she said...Her initial interest morphed into a passion." - "Janesville Resident Hopes to Keep Hens in City," Janesville Gazette, February 14th, 2010.
.
"If you don't like hens, don't have any."
.
So you've come to accept the decision of the city administration, the Janesville Plan Commission, and the City Council? As per your condescension that you "have better things to do" with your time than talk to people who don't "get it," I presume you'll not bother raising the issue again?
.
"If your neighbor has hens and is bothering you, either knock on the dang door already, or contact ME."
.
I'll call authorities first upon such a discovery.
.
"HENS ARE NO BIG DEAL."
.
When owned and raised in compliance with ordinance, which you're currently welcome to do.
.
"As to providing inconvenienttruth with evidence that horse or cow produce A LOT of poo compared to the ONE cubic foot of poo produced by a hen in a YEAR'S time"
.
No such evidence was requested. Obviously cows and horses produce more waste than chickens. I merely pointed out that, by your own reasoning, animal manure is an upside to urban ownership: "Rollette said chickens add more than eggs to the urban environment.
-- Chicken waste can be composted.
'They really go hand in hand with gardens,' she said."
.
"...or that a cow's moo is louder than a hen clucking..."
.
You mean four hens, clucking repeatedly. Hens can cluck quite loudly, at a higher frequency than a moo, especially when agitated.
Cows are often silent, and when they do moo are not louder than a dog barking (your own chosen measurement when justifying the noise of urban chickens, showing your hypocrisy).
.
"...or documentation that a hen is happy in a small space..."
.
You used the word "thrive." Chickens do not "thrive" in small spaces, they live. A cow, sheep, goat or pig(s) also lives happily in a space no larger than the average back yard. I asked for evidence that these animals do not, since you stated they have different requirements. In fact, they live so in pens of comparable size on farms every day.
.
"I don't think that is really a necessary debate."
.
Perhaps because you're willing to disregard my perfectly comparable desire to raise pigs, goats, sheep, etc in an urban setting, while spreading misinformation of your own? I guess you're just not as forward thinking and progressive as I am.

Hank-Gazettefan NEVER claimed to be KAB's daughter. Reread the post s-l-o-w-l-y. Gazettefan referenced a post from KAB's daughter agreeing with gazettefan. Now, that being said, go ahead and call me a liar, claim that you have my IP address and that I'm really a CIA agent tring to get the chicken ordanance passed so I can use it as cover to spy on Afton or some nonsense.

Honestly, Hank/Hunk post often because it brings laughter to my otherwise mundane existance.

In response to Mr. Steeber, Too bad this isn't Madison, Ft. Atkinson and as long as we are comparing , Beloit. So these cities have differant morals? hmmm..And mr. Thruman, didn't mr. McDonald suggest tennants might not necessarly get the right to have chickens thus the tenants around you wouldn't be messin with your nieghbor hood. I think somthing can and should be worked out , without the planning commision's involvement. [what have they ever planned thats so great?]

We are talking about chickens, Hank won't have the nerve to come to my house.

Good to see the pro B'moonies and the bible thumpers have all hooked up.

I thought we were talking about chickens here?

Hank, Hunk, I sent you my name and home address. Come on over.

Hank, Hunk, how is everybody? Say hello to Sybil. By the way, I met the real Sybil, she's good people.

Hank, I'm about to email you my home address. Try to make it over today. I'll be glad to see you.

4 hens:
• far less noisy than a neighbors leaf blower, lawn mower and snow blower
• less polluting than a neighbor's toxic lawn chemicals, dog, and smoke from backyard fire pits;
• less "unsightly" than a neighbors abandoned vehicles, falling down dog house and run;
• less attracting of vermin than the feral cats that kill birds at wild bird feeders and over-flowing trash dumpsters at apartments and businesses. Those who oppose the raising of a few chickens for sustainability, education, companionship, food, and much more can celebrate a temporary defeat of this amendment But, if for no other of the myriad of rational and factual benefits of urban chickens, discriminating against downtown city residents by banning hens vs. legal hen ownership within the same city boundaries in "out-laying" neighborhoods will keep the issue alive.

pathetic......

To all you pro B'moon people, read this post from another story:
-----
"Hank, I can appreciate your position. You (and most people on here) are fed up with the choices the city government (the council/city manager) makes, for failing to live within a budget, and then looking for ‘creative ways’ to nickel and dime an already over-taxed population in a major recession. As a voter, how do you combat this problem? You stop voting for the people who are causing the problems and vote for someone new. This IS sound logic. It IS a good idea to not vote for people who DON’T support your interests.

However, I’m with Gazettefan when I say that my vote would NEVER, under any circumstance go to B’moon. Why? Her behavior at council meetings thus far has shown that she pushes HER agenda, not the agenda of the citizens’ of JVL. She has, in the past, worked outside the lines of civility and used fear and intimidation to get what she wants. She shows irresponsibility in her personal and professional lives. And a good indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

If you did a little more research, not just watching a rehearsed speech, I think you would come to the same conclusion. I looked at the events in which she’s involved and looked at the outcome. Only one time (that I’ve counted so far) have the citizens of JVL come out ahead thanks to her work. I believe the Gazette published a piece about how she was part of getting the condemnation process changed. Every other story I’ve read about her shows that her agenda trumps all else. Some examples: 1) Trying to get the city to foot the bill for the restoration of the Case Feed building. 2) Ignoring/violating city codes requiring a second egress from a second floor residence – thus putting her tenants’ lives in danger in the event of a fire. 3) Refusing to work with the city to resolve the ‘carriage barn’ issues BEFORE it became a costly mess for the city. I can go on, if you like.

I have probably 1000’s of examples, because I don’t just follow her in the Gazette - she’s my Mom. I have firsthand knowledge of her behavior going back three decades. If you’d like more, message me. She is not the answer to JVL’s problems, in my opinion. We’ll see, come April if others feel the same way. I believe (because I no longer live in JVL so I have nothing at stake) it would be really, REALLY interesting if she won a seat this time. I think that you would see then that Gazettefan is just trying to spare the city the headache of putting this person in a position requiring extensive problem solving skills/collaboration/cooperation when she’s shown previously not to be cut out for such a position."

My neighbors can't even clean up their pumpkins from Halloween, which are still in their yard! I can only imagine chicken poo......

Hank, what do you think you'll gain by lying like that? Grow up!!!

inconvieniet......., for answers to your important questions, re-read my previous posts.

I am Allison Rollette. You can contact me at cityofjanesvillechickens@gmail.com to confirm it, if you'd like to. I did not "stumble across" ANYTHING. After I "participated" in a job elimination with Lab Safety Supply in February 2009, I decided to focus on energy savings, anything that would save our household dollars of any kind, and anything that would promote our family's self sustainability. After my vegetable garden came to a close last year -- I thought of keeping hens. All on my own. Sudden revelation. I THEN discovered everything out there on keeping hens in town, and how popular it is for a variety of reasons. I have hundreds of hours of research into urban hen keeping at this point. Key points to this research are posted in links on my cojchicken.wordpress.com page. If you don't like hens, don't have any. If your neighbor has hens and is bothering you, either knock on the dang door already, or contact ME. HENS ARE NO BIG DEAL. As to providing inconvenienttruth with evidence that horse or cow produce A LOT of poo compared to the ONE cubic foot of poo produced by a hen in a YEAR'S time.. or that a cow's moo is louder than a hen clucking... Or documentation that a hen is happy (as evidenced by her continued egg laying and health) in a small space... I don't think that is really a necessary debate. I just wanted to make clear that it is not some kind of conspiracy.. I am me! ; )

If you want to raise farm aninimals then go buy a farm or farmette, there are plenty for sale!

I'm very pleased with the decision to not allow chickens in the city. We live on the edge of the city near the greenbelt and have seen fox, coyotes and deer in our backyard.....a chicken wouldn't stand a chance. I think that having chickens (fenced or not) would simply attract more of these "wild" animals into the city. I'm not sure parents of young children would appreciate that.....

I can't believe it either; some people will just lie themselves blind.
.
The opinion of the chicken suit, on the other hand, is open to one's own preferences, unlike the truth.

I can't believe this is even a debate. Especially with some dope dressed in a chicken costume. Are you kidding me?

"They're both looking down reading."
.
Based on what fact have you made the assumption that either is reading? No "pages," as you claim, are visible in this photo. Because someone is looking downward, they are inherently reading?
Assuming she is reading something, would that preclude her from also reciting the pledge?
.
"I know for a fact that he and she are close associates."
.
One can only take your word for that "fact" and, unfortunately for you, you haven't shown any honesty here so far. Whether or not they are associates is also irrelevant to whether or not they are saying the pledge.
.
"Your question that other people are standing does that mean she's not saying the Pledge? is incoherent."
.
My statement (not question) that, because she is standing like everyone else, it doesn't mean she's not saying the pledge is coherent and correct.
.
"That you should be working with her is not irrelevant..."
.
Yes, it is irrelevant to the question of whether she is saying the pledge or not.
.
"...to your endorsement of her."
.
I've not endorsed her. I've condemned your biased lies. Your bias has lead to further delusions like this.
.
"None of what I said is irrelevant."
.
All of your comments on this subject have been irrelevant or biased lies.
.
"You, like her, are obsessed with a very narrow focus."
.
I'm solely concerned with the objective truth. You're clearly concerned with the narrow focus of lying about a woman you're biased against.
.
"You both exhibit a functional detachment from reality," says the biased liar.

They're both looking down reading. I know for a fact that he and she are close associates.

Your question that other people are standing does that mean she's not saying the Pledge? is incoherent.

That you should be working with her is not irrelevant to your endorsement of her. None of what I said is irrelevant. You, like her, are obsessed with a very narrow focus. You both exhibit a functional detachment from reality.

"She's also standing, that doesn't mean she's saying the Pledge."
.
So is everyone else. It also doesn't mean she's not saying it.
.
"That guy next to her is one of her flunkies"
.
Based on what evidence have you made this immaturely stated assumption?
.
"he's doing the same thing she is."
.
Standing, mouth open, hand on chest...like every other person in the picture? You're right.
.
"Is that you?"
.
No. Relevance of the question?

"Put your glasses on, she reading her pages."
.
No glasses are needed; no pages are visible. You're simply a biased liar.
.
"You're just like her."
.
Illogical assumption, bordering on paranoid delusion.
.
"You two 'working' together would be a real spectacle."
.
Irrelevant. You're making a spectacle enough of yourself here, through your denial of your blatanly biased lies.
.
"She's in the book, give her a call if you think she's a positive influence in Janesville."
.
Irrelevant to the topic of whether she is reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. Again, whether you like her or not does not entitle you to lie about her.

That guy next to her is one of her flunkies, he's doing the same thing she is.

Is that you?

Thanks to our city council for listening to the Plan Commission and making a wise decision. The two dissenters just lost my vote.

Assuming zythia13 is Allison Rollette -
.
"...and are not forward thinking and progressive enough to change their ordinance to allow urban hens!"
.
Why is changing an ordinance to allow chicken coops within city limits inherently "forward thinking and progressive"? Quite condescendingly subjective of you.
.
"And, you are still wrong about the other animals you listed."
.
No, I'm correct, but you're welcome to provide documented facts to prove me wrong.
.
"They are either too loud..."
.
No louder than a chicken coop.
.
"...make too much crap..."
.
One of your own touted benefits to owning an urban chicken coop is the fertilizer provided. You've contradicted yourself
.
"...or do not thrive in small spaces."
.
Chickens also do not "thrive" in small spaces. The words 'live' and 'thrive' are not interchangeable.
.
Thank you for attempting to change an ordinance merely because one day you stumbled across a website advocating urban chicken coops and thought it sounded like a neat idea. It shows you really "get it"!

She's also standing, that doesn't mean she's saying the Pledge.

Put your glasses on, she reading her pages.

You're just like her. You two "working" together would be a real spectacle. She's in the book, give her a call if you think she's a positive influence in Janesville.

"She's a mouth breather."
.
Everyone else's mouths are open in that picture. Funny how bias works, huh?

"Enlarge the photo and you'll see is looking at her pages."
.
I have taken the time to enlarge the photo. No "pages" are visible. What is visible is her open mouth and hand on her chest, which you failed to note in your biased lies.
Again: Assuming she is reading something (there is no evidence to support this assumption), would that preclude her from also reciting the pledge?

Wisconsin makes national news all the time, I just hope this photo doesn't make an AP news story. My friends from all over the country already think of us as cheese heads.That we can handle. This is just embarrassing. I agree with a previous poster, if you want chicken go to the store. Or find a local farmer and help them out by buying their chickens.

Is she reading and saying the Pledge at the same time? She's a mouth breather.

Enlarge the photo and you'll see is looking at her pages.

MooShoo and Inconvenienttruth: YEY!!!! Janesville can now tout the fact that it is in the 15 -20% group of cities that said "no" to an ordinance change, and are not forward thinking and progressive enough to change their ordinance to allow urban hens! wOOt! And, you are still wrong about the other animals you listed. They are either too loud, make too much crap, or do not thrive in small spaces. Thank you for your time. To the people on this list of comments that have questions or are supportive of urban hen keeping: please feel free to visit www.cojchickens.wordpress.com Talk to you all later! I have better things to do with my time than argue with people who will NEVER "get it."
--allison rollette

"She is reading something..."
.
She's "reading something"? Based on what fact have you made this assumption? Because someone is looking downward, they are inherently reading?
Assuming she is reading something, would that preclude her from also reciting the pledge?
.
"...and not speaking."
.
Her mouth is visibly open.
.
"Is she reading the Pledge of Allegiance silently to herself?"
.
"Silently"? You're able to hear sounds from photographs?

"I don't think so."
.
You're apparently not thinking in general.

Any positive changes from the public re: the council never has anything to do with B'moon. Read banyan99's post.

Just because someone is a chronic complainer doesn't mean they're productive. The council responds to reasonable complaints and comments.

Easy to sit in the comfort of your own home and whine about the city council and their decisions, why not go to the meeting and show your displeasure? Or is it too easy to not have to face the music and sit behind your computer and whine about how bad things are and how bad the council is and do nothing about it? As scary as it sounds, Briarmoon seems to be the only "citizen" out there that actually is trying to do something about the councils insane decisions.....

In a world based around technology and the internet, we all become arm chair skeptics, but it takes guts and determination as a collective people to stand up and make changes not whine about the problems.

She is reading something and not speaking. Is she reading the Pledge of Allegiance silently to herself? I don't think so.

So, because you don't like her, you're entitled to lie about her?
That's something I'll be sure to note.

The 2 behind are looking what the chicken did on the floor.

Note that Andreah is not participating in the Pledge of Allegiance.

It could be Hank in the chicken suit.

MooShoo, Andreah is in the photo. She's the first person on the left, next to the woman in the dark sweater.

It could be one of her flunkies in the chicken suit.

Logic has no place in your pretentious drivel.

Janesville is a little piddly place that knows it is a piddly little place. It will brook no suggestion that might remind others of its size and otherwise near-rural atmosphere.

Chickens aren't very much different than other animals, but for the same reasons we save dolphins and kill tuna, we eat chickens and live with dogs. Humans, whether they live in Janesville or not, are pretty weird. Logic has no place in decisions about local ordinances.

Wait a minute. Madison can have chickens but Janesville can't!? Bull, just copy Madison's ordinances and let us have egg on our face. Go Chickens!!

A several words of wisdom for aspiring chicken ranchers here in Janesville before I call it quits tonight.
*
You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
*
Andrea, wearing the chicken suit to Council meetings does not qualify you to serve on the Council.
*
For the record, I am NOT OPPOSED to raising fiberglass chickens in Janesville as long as you do not start with breeding stock from the Walworth County Fairgrounds.

Zythia13 said "Hens however, have no such constraint in cities, as is demonstrated by the countless cities that already allow them."
*
Ms. Zythia, you have countless opportunities elsewhere if you wish to raise yard bird in the urban environment. Please feel free to move on.

Thank you inconvenienttruth to for using logic to knock holes in the urban chicken rancher arguments.

"Although I would not choose to have chickens, if people want to do it, why not let them? As long as there are ordinances in place, as there are in other animal situations, what's the real harm?" - bigsmurf
.
There isn't harm in it, and that's why we DO let people own livestock...in the country, where livestock belongs, as ordinanced.

zythia13
.
A cow, sheep, goat or pig pen does not require more space than an average back yard. None produce more noise than a chicken coop. All generate feces (which has been touted as a benefit of raising chickens - fertilizer). If your only rationale for wanting chickens is because other cities allow it, perhaps you should relocate to one of those other cities? It seems clear Janesville is not interested, and your individual desire to the contrary does not change that, nor should it.

To the Janesville City Council...THANK YOU!

Although I would not choose to have chickens, if people want to do it, why not let them? As long as there are ordinances in place, as there are in other animal situations, what's the real harm? It can't be the smell- Janesville already stinks.

Gazette front page is consistent with front pages all over the country. Inconvenienttruth: most of the animals you listed have requirements regarding care (and generate a lot of feces, or noise) that do not work well in the close quarters of a city. Hens however, have no such constraint in cities, as is demonstrated by the countless cities that already allow them.

Hypothetical situation:
I’m a budding business owner looking for a place to move my up and coming company and base staff to. I look at the Janesville area and find the infrastructure seems to be there. Now all I have to do is convince my staff and investors that this is the right move. How do we get a feel for the community? How about if I pop over to their local newspapers website and see how that looks.
Surprise!
City council meetings about backyard chickens with a resident even dressed in a chicken outfit.
WHOA!
Maybe Janesville ISN’T such a good fit for my young company after all.
.
My point is this: We only get one chance to make a first impression.
That front page is embarrassing……..

"What am I supposed to do...Blindly follow the plan commission recommendation?"
.
"This is something that is done in cities all over."
.
I see, McDonald. Following a recommendation from the Janesville Plan Commission, in agreeance with the city administration's recommendation, is "blind." Doing something because it's done "all over" is not.
Logic, ftw!

I also have concerns about locality/freshness/animal treatment/etc. regarding:
.
Pork.
Not only would I like to raise my own chickens so as to harvest my own eggs, I'd like to raise my own pigs. After all, what goes great with some eggs? Bacon! And I personally have concerns about buying pork products, as I have no idea of the process and conditions of a pig slaughter. However, I live in the city. We should change the law to allow pig pens within city limits.
.
Wool.
I would like to be able to own sheep, so as to shear them and harvest their wool. I have concerns about buying garments made of wool, when I have no idea of the process or conditions in which that wool was sheared. However, I live in the city. We should change the law to allow ownership of sheep within city limits.
.
Milk.
I would like to be able to own cows or goats, so as to milk them, and consume their fresh milk. I have concerns about buying milk at a grocer, when I have no idea of the process or conditions in which that milk was milked. However, I live in the city. We should change the law to allow ownership of cows or goats within city limits.
This also applies to milk products, like cheese, butter or ice cream (the sources of these products keep me up at night, too).
.
Fossil fuels.
I would like to be able to own horses or mules, so as to ride them as mounts for transportation. I don't want to buy fossil fuels because I have concerns about the effect the collection and use of them has on the environment. However, I live in the city, and am not strong enough/have too many materials to transport to ride a bicycle the distances I need to commute. We should change the law to allow ownership of horses or mules within city limits.
I also have a tangential concern regarding lawn mowers, which are also gas powered. I propose allowing the ownership of grazing animals (such as the cows, sheep and goats suggested earlier) within city limits, so as to manage my lawn in a natural, eco-friendly manner.
And speaking of lawns, image how lush and green they could be from the influx of all the new sources of manure! Like those geese we all love having in our city parks, only BETTER!
.
Any denial of these proposals is only due to bias and a lack of trust in people to raise and care for these animals... even though people are freely allowed, even encouraged, to do so every day outside of city limits, some as a means of income. But relocating to accommodate an optional agricultural lifestyle of my own choosing is a ridiculously tyrannical suggestion that imposes on my freedoms in a representatively governed society!

Hank=Briarmoon
Wow!!!!!

Visit the "new and improved!" chlorine and MSG free: www.cojchickens.wordpress.com !

Hank...

...I've seen the elephant...

...and the idea of Ms. Briarmoon as an elected official scares me to the root of my soul.

peoples garbage attracts rodents, the city landfill attracts rodents, restuarants attract rodents, the lists go on But the heaven forbid they let something new be tried and maybe teach kids there is more to life then TV and video games and maybe they could learn to be responsible and 4-H would have something from the city kids other then srt work ( which is good but i think this would be a total enlightment to some kids that haven't been anywhere but in the city....

mike1 there was far more then 4 chickens and if you don't like the country air stay home and enjoy your city life, also get air then you can keep your windows shut and miss out on the real world..

Steeber has not a clue to values IMO his values seem to be just that; his. We the residents don't have value to the council or anyone else that is part of it as they decide our choices and what we believe is right So here we have dictatorship as The people in Janesville that voted for this council should look at the whole picture as your words and thoughts are of no value to the very people you put your trust in. They decide on a self serving bases and you can do nothing but fight back.and lose again and again as your opinion and feedback falls on deaf ears and is of no value. JUSY MY OPINION buc buc buc

the chickens do attract the other rodents scruying around at night,You think the skunks,oppusm,foxes,coyotes,bad now start the influx of coop raising see how many invade the "city of parks",let's reconstruct the ol' coops at County G an bypass 11,wait a minute they stunk too miles away

Okay! Okay! I'll get rid of the chicken outfit. Geesh! lol

I can't believe that the chicken suit didn't work. That was a premium. That was added value. If that doesn't make you want to have a chicken in your backyard, I don't know what will. I have chickens in my backyard quite often. The trick is to split the breasts so that they are butterflied and then marinate them overnight in your favorite concoction. Grill over medium heat on non-stick foil. You still might need to spray the foil with cooking spray, depending on the oil content of your marinade.

Thank you, Mr Rashkin & Mr. McDonald. Your leadership and intelligent perspectives were sadly negated by the rest of the Council who clearly had not done their research and, who instead, decided to promote myth and completely unfounded fear amid the community at large. I have no doubt his will eventually come to pass...it's just a matter of when Janesville has the wisdom to enter the contemporary world.

Sorry Sannio, but we live in an representative democracy. The Council has voted on your behalf and my behalf. If you don't like it, run for office.

"Vermin, smell, the spread of disease and the increase of predators"...that pretty much sums up the direction of Janesville over the past few years, "to be quite honest with you."

"'Janesville is not Madison or Fort Atkinson, where they allow chickens,' Steeber said. 'We are Janesville, with our own values.'” Far more telling than he knows...and nothing at all to brag about!

One living here need not wonder what life in an Idiocracy might be like! Between Doyle, Sheridan, the county board and the city council "on ice," we are "livin' that (disturbing) dream."

We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic. In a republic the sovereignty is in each individual person. In a democracy the sovereignty is in the group. A very important difference.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands..."

I am curious Mr Steeber, just what are your values? and why are your values more important than others, or have you been a cop for so long that you forgot that we live in a Democratic Society?

Thank you Bill for keeping our neighborhood clean!! Bill has worked too hard for this city to see it go to **** in an egg basket.

A chicken sh@# decision, no doubt!

I am so glad that this is over.... IF the chicken people think that most of Janesville wants it, let's put it to a vote... I would be happy to vote against it, as would be EVERY person that I know.

just once again the city council and other people who were against it, are showing their bias against anything to do with agriculture, like I have said before the people of Janesville are a bunch of self serving snobs, You people think because you have JPAC you are a upstanding metropolitan city, when all you are is a joke

Sobernow you must not be,get a grip they still have yet to do so

Remember people our city council just proved to its citizens that it don't trust them to be responsible.Mr Rashkin Mr McDonald thanks for your support in the citizens.To the rest shame on you O yea I will be voteing

The city did something correct for once.

Oh brother...a chicken outfit??? I might stay where I'm at :)

"To be quite honest with you, this is a city,” Steeber said

i appreciate your honesty mr steeber...

typo: makWe

Paragraph 15