"Ehrhardt said higher expectations for students are important."
Sorry, wrong. Ehrhardt has it bass-akwards. What is really important is **students' expectations for themselves.** If students are satisfied with these scores, then the community will have to be satisfied with them too.

Craig’s average score--21.5
Parker’s average score--20.7.

Next step? Blackhawk Technical College. BTC grads find jobs, by the way. And if these young workers then decide they want to pursue further education, they will be able to make their own plans and save their own money to finance them.

Higher test scores are generally more desirable than low ones, true, but these scores aren't going to trigger the end of the world. If these are the best scores that Janesville students can muster, then so be it. I say leave the test scores up to the students. They are the ones who will have to live with them.

bill, although I agree with some of what you said about fishing for a problem, I can't help but wonder... when a question comes up in class about a controversial/divisive issue that you say is causing student rebellion and poor test scores... is a teacher supposed to just answer "no comment?" "Mr. X how reliable are condoms?"
"Well Johnny, they are 90 something percent effective at preventing STD's and pregnancy but the only 100% fool proof method is abstinence." I would wager that this is the canned response that is given as the health teacher tries to be very diplomatic. What would you rather have the response be? "I cannot comment, google it, ask your parents because this is on my notecard of issues I should not talk about because it may impact ACT scores?" What other topics should be avoided/ignored? Should we just get rid of social studies? It may involve political debate mediated by the teacher in poli sci class. Maybe US History should end at about WWII because it may be too controversial to discuss civil rights or any politician this side of FDR because that may hint at who was a good president or not. Maybe school would be a much better place if we just stuck to letters and numbers and let all opinions and ideas be formed by parents.

Where I wrote that "Didn’t you say that you have spanked our own children yourself?" I meant to write your, not our. Obviously, we have no children together.

part 2
If a child tells you they have been hurt, that must be reported. I never claimed that the schools or teachers should ignore it. For you to claim otherwise is a fallacy. Maybe your emotional reaction kept you from accurately reading what I wrote. What I said is "In public schools it's common for the teachers to tell the students that if the students believe they've been disciplined too harshly at home, to report their parents to the school". That’s fishing for something to report. It’s called the proactive approach to eliminating child abuse. By its nature it assumes that all parents are potential abusers. It’s not the same as reporting what you’ve observed or have been told. The point is that while their purpose is the laudable goal of child abuse prevention, an effect is that schools plant the seeds of rebellion to parental authority in class with those fishing expeditions, and then they blame the parents for students who are out of control and underachieve.

Do you really tell your students all the time that violence is wrong? Do you really let them conclude without qualification that there is no moral difference between a punch in the nose from a school yard bully and a spanking from a parent? Please tell me you're a better teacher than that! Didn’t you say that you have spanked our own children yourself? Isn’t a person always allowed to use violence to defend himself from violence, even on the school yard? Don’t you realize that “telling” a student that violence is always wrong isn’t teaching, it’s indoctrination? Before you react emotionally and claim that I support violence in schools, I'm as opposed to bullies in school as anyone. I also abhor child abuse so you won't need to call me a child abuser again.

As for the sex education, birth control and abortion advice given students, again the point is that you plant the idea that the students can make their own decisions without parental knowledge let alone guidance, a principle they easily apply to all areas of their lives and then you blame the parents when their child exercises his newfound ability to choose by choosing not to take their education seriously.

I do understand your anger though. You seem to have bought into the idea that parents are solely to blame. If they aren't fully to blame then the schools and their employees are culpable for student underachievement, to a larger degree than they want to admit. And that's not something you or they even want to consider, let alone accept. So you react in anger and defensiveness, using disparagements which helps you avoid consideration of the assertions I make. Those terms don't strengthen your argument, they just help you keep your mind closed to my assertions. By the way, I found your assertion that I beat my kids to be particularly baseless and graceless. Even if everything I wrote were just as baseless, which it is not, you have no justification for that no matter how upset you were by what I wrote.

Though I doubt that you'll accept this as proof, you've seen the anecdotal evidence on these discussion boards the same as I have. Avid readers of news and current events have seen plenty of such evidence from school districts all over the country. And the students have seen that too, no doubt. Certaily you must have seen it too. Perhaps you think that Janesville is so isolated that these news items don't get noticed in these parts except by the very few, or that things are done differently here than even in other parts of our state? Maybe you think that some of the parents who have written comments about these things here in the Gazette are lying?

Maybe you think that Janesville is different, that student underachievement here in Janesville has nothing whatsoever to do with school policy, philosophy and methodology, that it is always the fault of the parents unequivocally and that this school district's policies and methods have nothing to do with the rebellion against parental authority that is evident in so many of our students? Yet you admit to some degree what I've asserted when you say that the law requires you to do these things. Whether it's your fault or not, whether some law says you have to tell a student that they have every right to make their own decisions without parental involvement, you do just as I said you do. And certainly you aren't going to contend that once that seed is planted in the heart of a normally rebellious youth that he isn't going to apply that in ways the writers of that law did not intend. That's what's called the law of unintended consequences. You actively search for victims of abuse and you produce disrespect for parental authority. You actively advise a student in distress about how to escape the potentially awful consequences of poor choices you encouraged them to make without the knowledge of their parents and you produce students who feel no need to discuss anything else with their parents either.

Hurray for whythink!

All you do is spew factless accusations about the school district. You have not provided one specifc example of anything you say being true.
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I don't know a single educator that believes all parents are potentially abusive or one educator that believes MS or HS students should be A. sexual active, B. get an abortion or C. keep all of the above from their parents.
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You use things like a Sex Ed. discussion in which a student asks a direct question of the teacher as your example. If the teacher gives a truthful, legal answer that you don't like it isn't the teacher, it is the law. Anytime a young person has asked me about a law..say legal consent...I give them a truthful answer and then go on to state my opinion about waiting. You, and most students, would ignore the opinion about waiting and instead choose to focus on, and for you, demonize the teachers respons.
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That is the only context that a typical teacher would tell a student they can have sex (for example).
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Regarding child abuse...if a child, say age 7, tells a teacher that her dad hit her really hard last night and her backside still hurts what would you suggest the teacher do. BY LAW, teachers are mandatory reporters. They must report it and then the appropriate authorities take it from there.
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In addition, if the subject of hitting comes up in, say a 2nd grade classroom, say after a playground fight, wouldn't any adult talk about hitting being wrong and stress that NOBODY has the right to hit another person. I tell young people all the time that violence is wrong. If a young student chooses to then challenge a parent about being spanked...should the teacher really be blamed?
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Your statements are idiotic because they are general and without specific examples. They prove nothing other than you dislike public education and have little respect for the difficult jobs teachers have.
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QUESTION: Given the rate of child abuse in this country would you rather a teacher ignore students who claim mom hit them or report it. What would you say if a child was found beaten to near death and it came out that a teacher had been told by the child that he/she had been hit the night before? Your example is cowdarly...everyone knows that is a double-edge sword...I know I would rather my child have a teacher that cares enough to report than one that refuses to listen to their students.
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I don't regularly name-call...but your statements...good grief!

I was sitting here trying to create yet more idiotic statements, which is easy for me since idiotic statements are any that Whythink doesn't agree with, when I decided to just summarize my previous idiocy. I think it's fatuous of public school systems to undermine parental authority on the grounds that all parents are potential child beaters that must have their authority subverted, to encourage children to make their own choices whether they are mature enough to do so or not, to assume that parents are too uninformed to make meaningful contributions and suggestions about curricula or teaching methods and then blame those same marginalized, excluded and enfeebled parents for the academic failure of those students.

I realize that you don't like my opinions and that you would prefer that I just go away, but do you really think you accomplish anything by calling me an idiot, Whythink, other than to make you feel a little better? I thought you were above that kind of thing.

billnewbie
Aug 19, 2010 at 4:26 p.m.
"Here's another fact to analyze for those who defend the school system for these poor test scores by blaming the parents. The school system teaches the students that they have a right to make their own choices (and not just in health class). They tell them they can have sex, obtain birth control and have abortions and their parents don't even have a right to know about the choices they make. Then when the students whole wholeheartedly adopt this liberating philosophy and apply it to other areas of their lives such as deciding the amount of effort they'll put towards their education, the schools, teachers and their supporters all blame the disinterested parents who in all likelihood know nothing is wrong until its too late to fix, thanks to the instruction of the school system.

It's funny (strange not humorous) how easy it is to teach a student to assert his own choices according to his self interest first and foremost but how difficult it is to teach them Algebra."
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More idiotic statements...
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By the time a teacher (BTW, huge accusation, do you have proof or did Fox tell you this?) might be telling a student this the values should have been instilled by the parents. If this teacher, that is so powerful that it can remove years of good parenting in what, a single semester...perhaps the good parenting has been over-estimated.
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I am not blaming parents but I must defend the school system in this case. These accusations have little proof...sure, like any profession there are wackadoodle teachers but to generalize, like every health class is encouraging sex and abortions and that, not home, is why test scores are going down...good grief.
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BTW, on a personal note, if I had been having sex in HS I am guessing I would have scored better than my humiliating 19.
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My 19, was a result of great parenting and wonderful teachers...I did not care. I was a kid who applied to two different colleges. One because of the team that held training camp there in the Summer and the other because a friend was already there. I barely graduated with a C- GPA. Not until I returned to college did I earn what I had ALWAYS been capable of. Now, I have a Master's Degree.
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The parenting and teachers were not the issue. I simply was not mature enough to care about how I did. I am sure I tried...but did I really focus and try my best...no way!
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All the factors listed (minus the abortion Dr. Health teacher and P.I. school social worker) are reasons for the scores being lowered.
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JSD will continue to work hard to be the best district in the state and nation. I know that is the goal of the majority of teachers and administration...that is why they work so hard.

billnewbie
Aug 19, 2010 at 9:36 a.m.
"For all you "blame the parents" types, here's something to chew on. In public schools it's common for the teachers to tell the students that if the students believe they've been disciplined too harshly at home, to report their parents to the school. The school social worker will then interview the student and call in child protective services to intervene on the student's behalf with the parents. The parents know this either through review of the material brought home by the student or because the student threatens to tell the school about the parent's harsh discipline. Either way, the parents are intimidated from using effective discipline by the school district's direct or implied threats, intentional or not. When it comes to placing blame for lack of discipline at home, schools get a great deal of it."
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billnewbie,
That is probably the dumbest point ever posted on one of these blogs. An abusive parent is the ONLY parent that needs to be worried about a School Social Worker and Child Protective Services.
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If you are not abusing your kids...its like having your bags searched at the airport...you are only introuble if they find something ILLEGAL.
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BTW, if you aren't smart enough to come up with an effective discipline that doesn't involve physical contact with your child...maybe you shouldn't have had kids.
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I spank my kids very rarely...extreme cases where they are doing something to danger themselves or others. They are good kids and will be good kids. Spanking isn't the only form of discipline...it is however, the easiest, it takes very little effort.
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If you are afraid of the school social worker/child protective services...STOP HITTING YOUR KIDS!
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GOOD GRIEF!

The ACT is nothing more than a predictor, thTS IT. Look at other predictors, in other areas of life, how we use them and how accurate are they. Do you all believe the weatherman and his guess at the weather too eaach and every time? If you all believe these predictors are accurate, then I've got a bridge to sell each and every one of you.

ljwelch - I agree. If homework comes first starting way back in kindergarten, if parents take the time to be involved, if expectations are set high by parents, everyone wins. By the way, these are 16-17 year old students taking the ACT....how about putting some of the responsibility on THEM along with the parents & teachers? I suppose that would be asking too much? Again, the entitlement mentality.....

I guess itZ my turn to be an armchair quarterback. I smiled when I read about the school district forming(more meetings) - "verTicaL TeAms" to look at test data, etc - The name they chose reminds me of attempts by our military to use catchy little battle names like - Roaring Tiger, Dragon' Breath, New Dawn. Catchy names don't work and it might be good to change the administrative leadership now. The school board should take a clost look at the present administration.

This doesn't surprise me considering Janesville Schools test scores compared to other local schools that was sent out earlier this year. Janesville was at the bottom with Sun Prairie, Milton, Evansville, and Beloit Turner were well ahead of Janesville. In my daughter's two years in the Janesville School District (soon to be her 3rd) I have not been all that impressed. I think she got a lot more education in Evansville.

TCB - sorry for the slow response (gotta work some times, you know!) To answer your question - yes, Mercy employees are all vested in a pension plan after 7 years.

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The fallacies in the argument about "days of work" are many. To name a couple: First - the 190 days are the required minimum by contract, but do not represent the actual number of days worked, which is many more (I'm sure there are exceptions, but very few.) Second - "days of work" is deceiving because it does not represent the number of hours put in. I'll bet most teachers work more hours per year than many other salaried professionals. Third - look at the math for the "professional" worker. 365 days per year minus 104 for weekends leaves 263. Take 7 paid holidays and 3 weeks vacation and you're down to 241. Throw in "sick time" and other misc. time off and you're down to 231. Take those who have a 4 day work week and subtract 52 (but add 4 back for vacation, etc...) and you're at 183. That is fewer than a teacher is contracted. I'm not criticizing these professional people and how they work, I'm just pointing out the red herring that is the "190 day work year".

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A longer school year probably would be useful, but are you willing to foot the bill for that? You WILL have to pay the staff more, pay more for transportation and utilities and all the other consumables that students use over the course of a day. State aid won't increase so the local taxpayer is footing the bill. Oh- and don't forget that Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, the largest right-leaning lobbying group in the state passed that little law forbidding schools to open before Sept. 1 to boost tourism. They probably won't react well to kids not being available as cheap labor. That said, I think a better solution is take the long summer bread and split it into shorter quarter breaks of 2-3 weeks each and ramp up to about 200 - 210 days or so.

Gonzo, read your comment again, my bad. Please accept my apology for unduly piling on.

i'm with billnewbie. lets take away birth control and access to abortion. thats sure to help students get ahead in life

Its time for the Janesville teachers to buckle down. The days of pumping out brainless GM workers is over.

sorry, im a terrible speller

How many of you sit down and help you child w/ homework. How many of you acutlly check to see if you child has homework to do. The teachers can only present the matieral they teach to a child 1hr a day. The rest of that time it is up to the child and family to help facilitate what was taught in class. Do you you sit at the dinner table and ask what you child did in school? We cannot expect teachers to do everything for a student. We cant have teachers makeing kids learn. If a child is more interested in getting home to get on his Xbox and playing on his iphone, than makeing sure his homework is done that is not the teachers fault. Bottom line is learning starts at home and is added by teachers in the class room. Im not saying that all teachers are perfect, I know some need to go, but I am just saying that they are just a small part of a childs education.

billnewbie, I have to agree that the majority of students are obviously NOT responsible enough to make decisions about his/her life long path, yet are given the "privilege" to make them.

As I was growing up, I wasn't given more privileges until I could prove that I could handle the responsibilities AND privileges already given to me. When I made mistakes, my PARENTS were there to give me correction, discipline and take away privileges as necessary to TEACH me the proper way to behave. Clearly, the parents are SUPPOSED to be their children's PRIMARY instruction source. The public school system teachers were intended to be a SECONDARY source of knowledge.

FOF10: Just for curiousity's sake, since you brought up the food analogy, what would happen if you chose NOT to eat?

Here's another fact to analyze for those who defend the school system for these poor test scores by blaming the parents. The school system teaches the students that they have a right to make their own choices (and not just in health class). They tell them they can have sex, obtain birth control and have abortions and their parents don't even have a right to know about the choices they make. Then when the students whole wholeheartedly adopt this liberating philosophy and apply it to other areas of their lives such as deciding the amount of effort they'll put towards their education, the schools, teachers and their supporters all blame the disinterested parents who in all likelihood know nothing is wrong until its too late to fix, thanks to the instruction of the school system.

It's funny (strange not humorous) how easy it is to teach a student to assert his own choices according to his self interest first and foremost but how difficult it is to teach them Algebra.

Stubby,

Would a longer school year improve test scores? How about spending considerably more time during the school day on English and Math?

Stubby,

I am sorry its not 185 days its 190. Nothing close to the 253 days per year other professionals work. 261 including bank holidays. What is incredible to me is that you actually compare a GM work week to a teachers contract. How is GM doing in Janesville? Do they work 4-10 hour days or 5 -8 hour days? Are you speaking of the salaried management or hourly assembler?

Defined benefit pensions are going the way of the dinasour. Why? The auto industry's union-driven defined-benefit pension plans were a major contributor to its financial collapse. In the face of economic necessity, the private sector has been phasing them out for years in favor of far less generous defined-contribution plans.

Are Nurses who work 200 days per year at Mercy eligible for a pension after 25 years of service?

It ain't the teachers, folks...it's the parents (both nature and nurture) and the "culture" of the times here in America.
I doubt there's any country in the world that wastes more money and has more teachers (esp special ed!) trying in vain to entertain and cajole into learning the bulk of this unmotivated mass of spoiled, lazy, bored, whiny, self-entitled delinquents.
They're not hungry, and they have no idea what it's like to have to work to get by, no comprehension of the opportunity presented by available education, nor any impression that they will ever have to produce anything of value in order to be housed, clothed and fed.
Luckily, I have a feeling that they will one day soon get all the motivation they need, for the world cannot support our fat, parasitic, nonproductive consumer society for much longer. By then, however, it will be too late for most of them, for they have not been taught the meaning of "survival." Perhaps the Afghans or Bedouin can show them the way. Sadly, that'll probably be a good time to learn, "As-Salamu Alaykum." We'll see how well blaming teachers works then. C'est la vie, kiddies!

TCB - since when is the pension in lieu of larger salary? It is the same pension that all state and protective service employees get - and they are getting fair salaries. Also - the 185 day myth rears its ugly head again. First - the contract is 190, not 185. Second - teachers work many hours and days beyond just what is contracted. Today is a great example. I had to take my kid into the school to put things in his locker. I bet almost half the teachers were in the building getting ready for the school year. Today is not a contract day - in fact those days don't start for well over a week. The contract requires a minimum of 190 days, but like all salaried professionals they work until the job is done. Just to compare - full time GM workers were only scheduled to work about 180 days per year (4 - 10's, 3 weeks vacation - 3 weeks shut down) and received overtime for time above and beyond that. Nurses routinely are only scheduled about 190 - 200 days per year for full-time status.

Charmed,

How much should teachers be paid? Keep in mind the average teacher works about 185 school days per year; plus they earn a pension (in lieu of larger salary) and fantastic benefits not found in the private sector. Just curious to know what you think is equitable.

2no24give, I haven't read any comments after your first one, yet....but how about this: back in the day, discipline was prevalent, too. Not the misuse of discipline, but the meaning of the word-training/teaching people how to behave. Now parents yell, scream and holler that "the school can't treat my perfect little delinquent like that! I'll SUE!" so now, teachers have their hands tied and the little punks get away with bullying not only students, but also teachers. be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. The only thing that changes is people's perception as they age.

charmed2008 - Well said...you are wise beyond your years!!

I would just like to say that I graduated with the Class of 2006 from Parker High School. I can personally comment on the teachers and what is going on in the school system these days. It is both the teachers and the students fault for this decline in ACT scores. First off teachers are definitely not paid enough for what they do. There are pretty much raising the next generations and preparing them for what is to come in the "real world". Yes parents do this as well but students spend 8 plus hours in school (plus sports and extracurricular activities) so the majority comes from them. With all the disruptions and things that are tolerated in school these days it isn’t a big surprise why teachers are having such a hard time teaching students or even caring anymore about who they are preparing. A lot of teachers while I was attending Parker High seemed like they really just didn’t care anymore and where there just to get a paycheck. Students are allowed to get away with more and more things now in school teachers don’t want to overstep their boundaries for punishing a student or reprimanding them. Student’s these days don’t respect teachers and what they do. If teachers were allowed more options for punishment and not have to put up with all the bulls*** they would probably be able to teacher their students more and do a better job. A lot of parents really don’t know what goes on in school and don’t ask their children or voice their opinions when they should. A lot of parents can sit here and put full blame on the teachers but you really don’t know how your child acts in school, whether they pay full attention, just sit there and socialize, even go to class at that, or even what they are doing after school or on the weekends. As many of you parents that think your know what your child is doing you don’t you just assume because your child brings home good grades that everything is going great and that they are doing what they are supposed to do. Well get this a lot of students cheat, copy homework, play on their phones during class, steal teachers editions of books or even buy them online. When is the last time you went to s patent teacher conference, checked up on your kids, sat with them while they did their homework, checked in with their teachers ???

The only test many students seem to score high on these days is a drug test.

Garyprimer, I totally agree. Even we, as adults, are not in one category so why should our children/grandchildren be? It is up to the student and their parent/parents if they wish to succeed. By typing succeed, I do not mean that they have to score above average. One persons success is different from the next. We are not clones. If no motivation is given at home, why should we place that on a teachers shoulders? The teacher teaches the whole class, not just a few that are above average. Even in the work place we are all given jobs which fit us mentally and physically usually. JMO

See! We need more sports programs!! These kids can't learn if they are not playing sports. Maybe we can get even older text books and computers and then hire more coaches to teach these kids how to bounce balls better.
The school needs to put learning above sports.

Listen closely. Everyone can not be above average. It is not possible if the results are judged fairly. I wonder if this bewildering expectation is the result of the feel-good "everyone is a winner no matter how poorly you do attitude" that permeates our education system?

Stubby - Food is needed to survive. The choice of food is left to the individual from home cooked meal, fast foods, take out, etc... Education is not a choice, it is delivered at one location where everyone else learns. That information is given by one person, a teacher. A person PAID to give that source of information. The student can't chose "Reading, Writing, and Math", it is taught to them. A student can chose Taco Bell, McDonald's, Chinese, Italian, or a home cooked meal. A doctor can say don't eat junk food, but he can't say don't eat. A teacher can't say don't learn.

I do get what you are saying in general. But teachers are PAID to teach and make sure a child learns it. If the child doesn't learn, the child is held back until he/she learns it. Teachers are suppose to be professionals that know how to teach to every type of child so they learn it. A doctor can only give the information out and can't check and balance the person. A doctor can run tests and see that the person is not taking the information he/she has given to heart. But they can't make them repeat 3rd grade because they ate a Big Mac.

I follow you KLC. There is this fantasy that all students are college material. Unfortunately, too many students find out they are not after wasting thousands of dollars on tuition. With unemployment the way it is, everybody is taking the ACT because going to college is the thing to do in this economy. We all remember those kids that claimed they were going to be engineers who took 3 times to pass Algebra 1. I guess they must have had bad algebra teachers right 2no24? From a personal point, I got a 23 on my one and only try and speeding through everything seemed more important than knowing everything given the time restraints.

Billnewbie - is the weather nice in your world? Your descriptions of schools bear little resemblance to reality.

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Fanoffun10 - doctors (like teachers) present information that patients (like students) can choose to accept or ignore. Just as a doctor can't put food in a patient's mouth, the teacher can't put information in a persons brain. They can present it - but it is still a student's choice to learn.

And then we've all heard about mothers who have gone to their child's school to express concerns about the effectiveness of the methods and material and are told "We are professionals. You should trust our professional judgment. Why don't just you go home and see if you can round up some dust bunnies or something? Leave Johnny's education to us."

For all you "blame the parents" types, here's something to chew on. In public schools it's common for the teachers to tell the students that if the students believe they've been disciplined too harshly at home, to report their parents to the school. The school social worker will then interview the student and call in child protective services to intervene on the student's behalf with the parents. The parents know this either through review of the material brought home by the student or because the student threatens to tell the school about the parent's harsh discipline. Either way, the parents are intimidated from using effective discipline by the school district's direct or implied threats, intentional or not. When it comes to placing blame for lack of discipline at home, schools get a great deal of it.

Final attempt at making the point because so far many don't seem to get it.
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No one is saying that low ACT scores are acceptable. In fact the opposite is true. Everyone is looking at these numbers and using them to figure out what changes should be made.
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With that said, the numbers don't automatically mean that teachers aren't doing their jobs well. One of the reasons that Parker's scores are lower than the state's is that a higher perctange of Parker's students took the ACT than the state average. One of the reasons Parker's scores have gone down is that a higher percentage every year are taking the ACT whereas the percentage from state has been static.
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Let's use these numbers as a diagnostic tool and not an evaluative tool. As mentioned earlier, you can make the numbers say what you want.

billnewbie, you have the answer to the school problem! Let's just tax the school system to extinction!

Stubby - A doctor doesn't control what is placed in the mouth. But teachers are paid to feed the right information to the brain.

I began school in the 40's. Back then teachers where allowed to discipline unruly kids. Today a teacher can not even say boo for fear of parents coming down on them. Back then parents had no problem with teachers taking action and then letting the parents know about the problem. The child would then get bigger punishment from home. Today parents take no responsibility to see that the child brings home work from school and help the child if they need assistants. I know the scores for their child would climb if only parents took the time the child deserves.

The funny thing is, you all are correct IMO. The educational level of the parents is a contributing factor to the results. The quality of the district teachers is a contributing factor as well. The kids are self motivated to take this test as well, to better their own future. BUT the bottom line is, TEACHERS are PAID to teach the basics that are needed for the ACT and SAT. They are doing a below average job according to the results.

I get what the first poster is saying, but it's time to realize that it's part of life. Both parents need to work nowadays to keep a household together. Back in the day, this wasn't as needed. There seemed to ALWAYS be a parent at home, unlike today.

With the resources (buildings, computers, new books, etc) and what school staff members are making, there is no excuse for being below average. Taxpayers have thrown their paychecks at the schools for them to better educate their children, not the parents. Parents are not teachers, they are parents. Teachers are teachers. Paid (w/ great benefits) to teach.

PER THE ARTICLE: "The ACT stresses a 'core curriculum' as being helpful for college preparation. Students who take the ACT-recommended core curriculum—at least FOUR YEARS OF ENGLISH AND THREE YEARS EACH OF MATH, SCIENCE AND SOCIAL STUDIES - tend to do better on the test." IMO, a student's class selection is the biggest factor in scoring well on the ACT and doing well in college. Too many students opt out of the core classes and choose elective courses that reduce their chances of learning the basics needed to succeed on this test and in college. Maybe parents need to pay more attention and give more input into class selections being made by their children.

Yet another beautiful example of how a single statistic can be used to skew public opinion. Let's all try to NOT be sheep here. I'm glad to see some of you followed the link and saw the increasing number of students taking the test - because when only the top students take the test the averages are higher!

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For those blaming the teachers you may want to consider an analogy. If Janesville has a higher than average rate of obesity and cancer, do you blame the doctors? Doctors tell us how to eat and exercise, but, in the end, we make our own choices. Same is true in education. The teachers may be the best ever at communicating the knowledge, but a teenager who just doesn't care probably won't learn very much. Add to this parents who show no respect for education or teachers, and you get these results.

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One big factor to remember is that many of these HS Juniors and Seniors were planning to join mom and dad at "the plant" upon graduation. Changes in employment options mean suddenly the student who is not on a "college prep" track decides another option is necessary. Thank goodness we live somewhere where that is possible!

this is scary to me.

I might be the exception but...

I took the test without ever preparing for it (no pre-tests, online research, manuals). I stayed out to work until 2:30am the night before the test. Showed up and guess what scored a 26 without trying. This is not that hard of a test to score above average.

I'm scared to think what would have happened had I tried like many others I know or retaken it multiple times.

These scores should be a huge warning sign. And that is probably why the focus shifts to sports as a way to get into college instead of academics that will feed you for a lifetime.

MooShoo, i don't think anything i wrote implies that janesville teachers are to blame. i'm a parker grad who got a 31 on the ACTs. no complaints there. however, i wouldn't look to demographics of the population over 25 to explain whats coming out of the high schools. there isn't a whole lot of incentive for a college grad to return to janesville though the city could and should be churning out college bound hs grads.

Gonzo, look around you. Janesville is a blue collar community for the most part. Go to the U.S. Census bureau and read the demographic stats for Janesville and Rock County. They do not compare well with the rest of the state. Your peers are less educated and have lower family income on average compared to state averages. You do not live in Maple Bluff, Shorewood Hills, Elm Grove, Brookfield, Cedarburg...
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I am not making excuses for poor performance, never will. In the same regard, you cannot take a summary statistic such as district average ATC scores and blame district teachers for those scores without putting them in context.

Children reflect their environment whether in grades in school or in social behavior. When parents work WITH teachers and demonstrate the respect all teachers deserve, students will also learn to value the opportunities teachers provide to them. When students hear parents berate teachers (i.e. "except the overpaid,under reliable,and selfish teachers") can we expect anything different from their children? When there is positive community support of teachers, active parental involvement on a regular basis, and when our public schools become a priority in the community for our mutual, social good, scores will rise. THANK YOU teachers for all you do, for all you struggle with, and for giving so much of yourselves that yet another generation might have brighter and more fulfilling futures. Thank you for all you did to ensure our children are not just monetarily successful but also follow their dreams.

Gonzo, look at the number, a higher percentage of PArker students (I didn't look at Craig) but last year only 57% of the state's students took the ACT, up from 55%, down from 57%. In fact the percentage ogf students taking the ACT in Wisconsin has been pretty static, whereas PArker has seen a steady increase. We can play the numbers game forever. My point is still to not necessarily read this as a fact the Janesville teachers are doing a worse job than in the past. Certainly there is room growth, I am not arguing that. Certainly there is benefit to these numbers, but the assumption that Janesville teachers are complacent and lazy based on the lowering of the average isn't a fair one.

I just checked the statistics available from the link at the end of the story. (Should have done it before, but as most here, I spout then think). Luckily for my ego, the #'s pan out. The latest figures show Parker High School tested 62.3 %, up from 57.3% the year before, up from 54.3%, up from 47.3%....

KLC, every point you made would relate to the state and national averages as well. it doesnt explain why janesville's score in relation to the state average

My point is that a lot more students see college as a necessary destination than in the past. Therefore, more students are likely taking the ACT than in the past. I'd bet that there are a lot more students who aren't what you'd traditionally call "college-bound" are taking the ACT. This is a good thing, but it swings the average down. Certainly looking to find ways to help bring up the average is also a good thing. I am just cautioning using this average as a "shame on you" to teachers. In fact, it might mean the opposite - more students are being motivated to pursue higher education!

So students who take initiative and take the ACT test to try and get into college are the lazy and dumb students? Unless you are arguing that their (caring) parents are forcing these lazy students to take the test when they don't want to? Or are you saying that the lazy students are diverting teaching time from the students who do care?

How many more students are taking the ACT than in the past? We could make this number go up by not encouraging every student to go to college and therefore not encourage every student to take the ACT. Let's find the top 20% of our student body, encourage only them to take the test, and then watch the scores rise!!! Or, maybe encouragement to persue higher education is better...

This finger pointing is endless and predictable. It is a combination of all these things and a major change in Janesville's diversity. I agree with Mooshoo, this is the biggest problem and the hardest for the public at large to solve. Everyone needs to accept they each are a part of the problem and then step up to being part of the solution. Nothing is solved by constantly arguing about it.

No one said the teachers wanted a pay raise so quit the bashing already. You don't know any details of the contract talks so saying anything about them makes you look like a fool!

The ACT is crap. I did horrible on the ACT(below the national average) and I still had a 3.4 in college and I graduated with honors.

Some of you need to get off the teacher bashing bandwagon and look around as teachers are only a small part of a much larger problem. Children now are LAZY compared to past generations. To say everything is the same as it was in the 50's, 60s, 70's, 80' or even the 90's is total garbage. That is just an ignorant statement. But go ahead keep bashing all it does is hurt this community. Some of you based on your foolish statements probably should have listened better while you were in school. Just because you pay taxes does not make you an expert in teacher pay or teacher performance. More than likely you are the type of people who will blame the teacher even if you kid is a complete dumb#@% and cares not to learn.

I'd like to know how many of Janesville's top students skipped the ACTs altogether and took SATs instead, hoping to escape the midewest regardless of their score.

Well said, MooShoo! I couldn't agree more! It seems that more and more teachers have had to take on the role of parenting in addition to teaching. Parents need to take some responsibility too!

How about offering a course at night that helps students get ready for the test? This isn't about core instruction rather there are ways to help students be better test takers.

It is unfair to place all the blame for lower than average scores on the district teachers. My guess without looking at test scores around the state, Madison Memorial, Madison West, and Hartland Arrowhead are in the top 10 of high school student test scores. Do those schools have the highest scores because they have the best teachers? No. Student scores are high because the parents of those students are on average more educated and affluent that the parents in the rest of the state.
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You don't need to be a statistician to know there is a strong positive correlation between parential education, income and test scores. Education is a priority in those families because it was a priority with the parents. They were achievers in school and pass those expectations as well as guidance on to the kids.
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I would like to know how we compare to peer communities with the same demographics. We should also expect incremental improvement in scores. If that does not happen, some well paid administrators should be asked to resign.

Boy oh Boy... That says it all.

good reason for the school board to beg for more cash to throw at the problem. even though that seldom works, it gives them the excuse.

All this on the heals of them wanting another raise in pay.... Maybe they need to produce results before the tax payers open their wallets AGAIN! It appears that we have a bargaining chip on our side now....

I don't think you can just say "it's the students" in this case because usually kids who take the test have motivation to do well on it because they want to get into college. At least that was the case when I was in high school. Taking the test is just a waste of time and money otherwise.

When it seems as money is more important then the student what do you expect and the teachers that do care are taken from their job and placed in a different positions for using a word that IMO has been used by many in reference to hot dog,

Well, have you seen some of the students the teachers have to work with??

Higher teacher pay/benefits doesn't seem to translate into higher scores for our students. Maybe we have to lower teacher pay/benefits and then the students scores will go up.
Please don't get me wrong here, I do respect teachers but darn it all, what is the problem that the students are not progressing?

Maybe we should just change the name of Janesville to Lake Wobegon and accept our students' below average achievement.

Or maybe we should just double teachers' salaries and then we'll have great schools.

If that doesn't work maybe we should tear down all the old school buildings and replace them with all new brick and mortar edifices of modernity which every school board says is necessary to increase student achievement when they promote spending referendums for building programs.

And if that still doesn't work we can cut class sizes down to 3 or 4 pupils per teacher. With the glut of unemployed teachers ready to fill the ranks and with the highest teacher salaries on the planet, that shouldn't be too hard to do. As long as we build enough extra classrooms when we replace all those old buildings. But then we probably won't have to have any more classrooms than we have now since few will be able to afford the new tax rates and will have moved from the district taking their underachieving children with them.

A better statistic would to learn the percentage of local high school graduates who actaully graduate college or vocational school.

Perhaps this statistic is yet another reason to tie teacher pay to student performance. In the last 10 years has the amount spent per pupil in Janesville class room increased or decreased compared to the "average" spent per pupil statewide?

Think about this the next time your local teacher's union asks for more money...

Somebody has to be below average. There is just no getting around it unless you live in Lake Wobegon.

Other than a nostalgia trip I'm not sure what your point is. The 50s were a very different era, before widespread college attendance and completely different career expectations. Many people could graduate high school, or even not, and get a good job as an unskilled laborer. Today a bachelor's degree is necessary for many more jobs and college preparation is what the schools are presumed to be responsible for. But the ACT was not used by any schools until 1959 so direct comparisons are not possible.

Dear Readers: How absolutely embarassing this must be to those calling themselves professional teachers!Lets cut the refrain about how we can't manage how the home handles things,about how single parenting is bothersome. Cripes,we had everything we have today back in the 50's,the 60's,except the overpaid,under reliable,and selfish teachers! We had the drugs. Had the weapons too. But,we also taught kids self-respect. We taught them rights-vs-privilges,to care about others. We taught them proper conduct,and so much more. As for bullies,we had em. But they never knew just when they were going to become the bullied! Just when they were going to find themselves on their butts,by one,or more other students. To the students. Come on! Stop letting a couple idiots control you! Stop letting losers represent what you stand for! Take back your hallways,your school yards,your community! Help your teachers get back to teaching. Oh,I'm not backstepping now. Far from it. Our teachers need to put their ridiculous values back in line,and start stressing the ideal that children come first and foremost! Wishes,RWC