rockcofarmer; what now? & your original point was what again?......

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...

I'm curious...if there is still no finalized healthcare bill (and here we are near the end of September), what exactly were they going to vote on before the August recess? It seems like a reasonable question.

Obama has been a huge disappointment.

Someday Sally you will understand.....Someday

Yes and the sun "could" go out tomorrow...another can of dribble by salty sally.

Once again RetiredDolly is wrong. The Supreme Court which is Conservative could rule that the Health Care Reform bill(s) are unConstitutional after being passed. Clearly, Conservatives don't trust other Conservatives otherwise they wouldn't be wetting themselves over their own delusional fears.

“No, I don't have an utter ignorance for our political system. “

Well in fact you do based on your earlier comment of “If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass.”

What kind of advice is that for the country as a whole? Just step aside and let something become law/policy regardless your view and constitution rights. This “thing” you tell others to step aside and let pass to see if it is good or bad will never go away when it passes…hence the ignorance.

It's all about lack of civility. You see it daily in many posts here. Is it necessary to start with a derogatory comment toward the receipient to belittle him or her.
-Was I off on a tangent, maybe, maybe not. My point is about Mr. Krauthammer who is seen on fox's infotainment network. Isn't it hypocritical that a person who pontificates on a network that blatantly distorts the truth, strike that,lies, would accuse the president of the same. The point of his opinion is to give Joe Wilson cover. The resulting comments from this piece and in other threads show that lack of civility. You see this daily from a select few just to get a response and then state "I was just joking". To that I say how immature.
-It sure seems hypocritical that the party of "NO" that was in charge not too long ago, didn't have a problem running up a deficit. Now they've got religion and don't want to spend a dime unless its a tax cut.
-tiredofhearingit: My point on referencing the gazette poll was to show that while unscientific, the poll showed that the majority of respondents were in favor of health care reform. Of 1475 against only a handful are overly vocal against it. Those same overly vocal opponents are against anything that is being proposed currently. The other point is, that poll after poll shows the same thing, a majority want reforms to happen. Does it reflect the nations view on this? I think that it does. And no I'm not an idiot but thanks for validating my original point.
-retiredairforce: No, I don't have an utter ignorance for our political system. You tend to pose questions that should be directed to our national leaders. I can't give you the answer why they are trying to get one republican to vote with them. I agree 51% is a majority and we shouldn't have to wait for 60%. Write Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi if you want those answers.
-digriz: No, I didn't take that as an insult. Childish and immature, yes, but then again I expected something more harsh along the lines of the explitive laced e-mail that I received from you. May I suggest anger management classes. As a insurance salesman you tend to lack people skills but that's just my opinion. One other thing, don't know who Randy or Betty are either.

The last thing we need is to bog down in more unnecessary Congressional "hearings" ...

I second that LOL, chainsaw.

LOL

More inane dribble from the boy with the "advanced degree". Sure was a waste of money if in fact he finished school at all.

No wonder we can't make any progress in this country. When adults start debating like adults and stop name-calling and acting like children throwing a tantrum, maybe then we can work together to solve our problems. One thing's for sure. Thank God or Buddah or Wayne Newton y'all aren't in charge.

Did anyone read Leonard Pitts in the Gazette today?
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Another excellent column. I strongly encourage everyone to read it.

Change & Transparency?
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...

Another great example of why the government should not be running your healthcare. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/090...

Sally; "If he and the rest of the Conservatives believed in what they were doing, why not war bonds?" - FACT: the vote in Congress was 296 to 133 to authorize the war in the first place - This INCLUDED Democrats - so why the lie towards Conservatives?

Sally, your lack of facts and details is indicative of your ideology. What did the media do or say exactly? How many times did they say it?

RetiredAirForce
Sep 23, 2009 at 8:12 p.m.
Suggest removal Whythink, why did you post Keith's idiotic rant about race? Nothing in this thread was brought up about the Presidents race until you interjected "For those saying it isn't about race...". I don't see how debating, the President, is racial at all.
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RAF
I don't believe it was idiotic or a rant but whatever.
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I thought I saw it discussed on this thread, perhaps it was a different article.
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My Bad!

More dribble from salty sally...

This country is in the more debt, now, than it's ever been in the history of our country. We cannot afford Obama.

Whythink, why did you post Keith's idiotic rant about race? Nothing in this thread was brought up about the Presidents race until you interjected "For those saying it isn't about race...". I don't see how debating, the President, is racial at all.

"If you read the goon squad's posts you will see people arguing over a Constitution that only exists in their tax-free big war spending reality "
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This clearly written by a person that NEVER has any facts to back up what he/she says. Time after time you have been rebuked, debunked, proven wrong and still nothing sinks in that empty space between your ears. Everyone that doesn't agree with your "interpretation" of the constitution is a "goon squad" participant. Everyone that disagrees with obamas ideology is a racist or a bigot. How do you know what race or ethnicity any comment poster represents? There is no box here to check that says what race a person is a member of. Assumption is all you are going by which makes you look more ridiculous each time you play your "bigot" or "race" card. For a person with an "advanced degree" you sure don't represent the so called intelligent people very well. I must say though, that I thoroughly enjoy watching people set you back in your place. Darwin, come on down, you are the next contestant on whack the liberal down show!

"Stupid people don't know they are stupid"
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Quit trying to make excuses for yourself, Sally. Just because you are ignorant of it, doesn't mean you can get away with it as an excuse for your ranting.

Sally - the only thing in that entire rant you just gave was the first sentence - I have to give you credit though - I am truely impressed you were able to figure that out on your own - wait..a..minute.. I'll bet DiGriz went off line & explained it you you didnt he?

I was told in a nice little email that I am not able to say the "f" word that means the same as flatulence here on the Gazette website in reference to Mr. Obama. So I will restate my comment. Mr Obama spend a billion dollars everytime he flatulates so what is the big deal about the billion dollars spent to set up Iraqi health care. I apologize MR angus for using such childish words.

jvillerdr, this isn't a real debate and they aren't stupid, they are bigots. Stupid people don't know they are stupid, the Republican'ts do and don't care and even think there is something wrong with being intelligent.

This isn't really about race, but it is about ignorance. Look at how many times the word socialism is used. None of the Republican'ts know what it means or how it is applied in reality. If you read the goon squad's posts you will see people arguing over a Constitution that only exists in their tax-free big war spending reality. Clearly, they are afraid and scared little babies which is why they attack everyone who disagrees with them.

The fact is that the Bush protesters were right and truthful about him being a liar, torturer and someone who defiled the Constitution. Even Cheney admitted they did something wrong when he started talking about the statute of limitations. And we had to endure the Republican't mistakes and now their cowardice in not taking responsibility for what they did. Not only do they not take responsibility, the cry babies blame everyone else. The Republican'ts must admire Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's abilities of delusion.

So apparently what passes for argument these days is calling your debate partner stupid. Guess we could call that "playing the personal attack card." And the "this has nothing to do with anything because I said so" card. Neither tactic is remotely persuasive.

Whythink, is that what you ask yourself everytime you touch the keyboard? It is obvious to the rest of us that you obviously dont think when putting your ignorant little fingers on the keyboard.

"Part of this debate is about the race of our current President."
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Only in your own mind. What, you throw the race card into the discussion (where it was not) just to get people to respond to it so you can argue about it?? You're kidding, right??

Whythink.....I don't know whether or not this makes me a racist, but I laughed out loud when I read the last line of your last post:)......I can't believe they came up with a song and titled it like that.......As far as the racist card goes--it's way overplayed. I have black friends and white friends and it's universally felt that there is both white and black trash with true racists making up only a very small part of our population on both sides.

"Part of this debate is about the race of our current President."

There are some folks who are being too extreme in how they personally think of Obama and thats wrong. The folks who are crying that this is racism saw no issue with people calling Bush Hitler and other derrogatory names. However, I would be willing to roll the dice that most of the debate here has been about Obama's socialistic policies and not race. You seem to bring up race all the time and thats uncalled for. Once you start mentioning race, it propagates into a self fulfilling prophecy that all those who disagree with him are some type of racists. I personally did not vote for Obama because I do not beleive in his policies. He seems like a good husband and father and overall human being but his idealogy contradicts what I beleive in. It has nothing to do with race.

vatoloco,
Imagine if the history of this country had been slavery of white people followed by citizenship with essentially no right followed by segregation and a decade plus of crimes against whites all from a dominant black population.
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Then, your senerio with GW would matter. It is the history of this country that makes educated people understand and look at crime of white on black or hispanic differently than vice versa.
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If you don't understand why racism is viewed today the way it is then I cannot help you. It was just 30-40 years ago that some schools were dealing with desegregation...and you wonder why this is an issues and the media covers certain things.
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Again, I don't believe it is all about race but anytime I hear someone say it is ONLY about the issue I know they are not being intellectually dishonest. Part of this debate is about the race of our current President.
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Some may be over using the race card on the left but it certainly is easy when the most popular right wing radio host plays a song entitled "Barack the Magic Negro."

Where is Rodney King when we need him??

Can't we all just get along?

nope

"For those saying it isn't about race, at least somewhat about race, watch this. It is scary and sad."

Whythink-

Please tell me why the media does not report or harp about black on black or hispanic on hispanic crime? Its not controversial enough I guess.

Or, just imagine this different scenario. What if President Bush (or any other white President) would have said that black officers acted stupidly if they had arrested a white professor at Harvard (Louis Gates case in Harvard) who had been belligerent and disorderly? Imagine, the media would still be talking about this right now.

"What we need are more regulation on the banking and insurance industries"

Rockcountyfarmerjones-

You cannot fight the fire while your feeding the flames.

Funny how some people refuse on here to even consider that some people might possibly see anyone differently because of stereotypes or prejudice. I guess we've completely 100 percent wiped that out, just by electing one African American president! Who knew it was that easy?

As for Fox news, all they do is cry, cry, cry.

On the healthcare issue, Obama can't even admit the real reason that politicians know there is a need for national healthcare: Because thanks to NAFTA, the jobs are gone and they are not coming back, so we aren't going to have any employer-provided health care much longer. A lot of people already don't. You'd think people in a recession-weary area like this would get that simple concept. It isn't going to be long before it's public health care or no health care for a majority of people. So lower middle class people -- like most people on this blog -- will be dying for lack of access to needed treatment if they get something like leukemia. I know someone who had to survive a scare with an insurance company initially denying treatment just like that. Hope nobody here who opposes public health care complains when that happens to them.

"We had an election in november. The people have spoken."
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We had two elections that Bush won both times, the people spoke then too but I noticed the liberal left kept giving their opinions for eight years and never shut up. Try taking your own advice after the next election cycle.

Yes well, if Keith Olbermann (bath tub boy) and Media Matters says it's true...must be true; no bias there.

Farmer - You took that as an insult? "Hayseed" was supposed to be a compliment for you...a promotion of sorts... But, considering the tone and content of your last rant, you are back to Sheep dip. My mistake...

whythink-doesn't every channel have someone who lets the crowd know when they have gone live? What is scary about that? Get a grip and quit being so paranoid.

whythink; you missed one
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/21/...
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Of course, there are a$$es in every group but just because a person doesn't agree with Obama does not make them a racist. Did you agree with Bush all the time? or how about the 42 presidents before him - why? do you hate white men? How did it work out for National H Care when Clinton proposed it - different plan I understand , but still, was that about race as well when it failed? - get off the race card it only discredits your arguements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFlQesLLG...
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For those saying it isn't about race, at least somewhat about race, watch this. It is scary and sad.
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Nobody is playing the race card, it has already been played, by SOME racists.
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And those whom enjoy Fox News...tell me this isn't scary.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfmEo1jiC...

rockcofarmer; you've obviously spent way too much time in the barn again - the fumes must be getting to you. Most of your post doesn't even justify a response but I have to comment on 1 point -
If you think a Jvl Gazette poll reflects the Nationwide stance on health care - or even the true sentiment of ALL Jvl area residents - well your an idiot, what else can I say.
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Why dont you just go back out to your garden and try selling your line of crap to the animals on your "farm"

You have displayed an utter ignorance of our political system with the comment; “If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass.”.

If and when a bill is passed (yes something will pass) it will never be rescinded no matter how terrible it turns out to be for our country. We still have Amtrak, Medicare, Medicaid, Postal Service, and Social Security…all in a state of bankruptcy and take up ~ 45% of the Federal budget. Increasing the budget by another trillion a year (we all know it will be much greater that this) is not the answer.

Your misconceived attempt of claiming the minority party is thwarting or stalling anything further depicts your illogical view of our political system. With a majority in both houses and the White house there is nothing the minority party can do to stop it. If you are worried about it not passing you need to look to the leadership of the majority and ask, why with a clear majority has nothing passed already?

Farmer......What exactly are the distortions and fabrications discussed in this article? Without going off on a tangent--let's limit the discussion to the article. Please be specific--it was a relatively short article, I would like to know what was fabricated.......

Wow, what a start to the day. I get a 5th grade insult from the resident troll/insurance salesman and the vocal minority, the party of "NO" is at it again.
- At least we're somewhat on topic again. Mr Krauthammer's opinion piece is rather humourus considering he typically is on the sunday news panel on fox. If all you watch are the distortions and fabrications that emanate from the fox news channel then it makes sense that the rest of the media is incorrect.
-As far as wanting the president and the democrats to fail, how nice, very american of you. After eight years of poor governance with most problems getting worse now you expect that all these problems to be solved in mere months. It is not going to happen, this will take a long time to solve. As long as the minority party thwarts, stalls and lies about proposed solutions we will be no better in the future than we are now.
- What we need are more regulation on the banking and insurance industries, tax cuts that were passed in the first term of the bush administration for the upper income bracket need to be rescinded and replaced with targeted tax cuts IF you invest in job creation in the u.s. The health care industry needs to be revamped to make it more comprehensive and more affordable. Environmental and green technology as well as energy issues need to also be addressed.
-We had an election in november. The people have spoken. We want a new direction not the status quo. If you have any doubts on that as far as health care, check out the poll results that the gazette ran a week or so ago, 52% were for the current proposal.
-If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass. If you are right the people will vote the party in power out and the government that is voted in will then have a chance to correct it.
- Just saying NO and continuing to do the same thing is insane. My opinion is that it is just selfishness on your part.
-Now it is time for this hayseed, this liberal to get to work and be productive. Have a nice day.

It is interesting to see how deluded the Obama worshippers are concerning their Dear Leader, the sly huckster and prophet/messiah. It is rather scary how the hypnotized and duped DemocRATS do not see that the emperor has no clothes. Obama has fallen from grace faster than the Manchurian candidate as his toadies in the elite press are losing the propaganda war.

Too funny fdwjvl!!!!:) Still living in the past--huh? It's going to be interesting to see "Obama's lie list" after his first term is up. No doubt it will rival Bush's and probably surpass it considering he promised his clueless followers that he could do anything aside from walk on water......or did he make that claim as well?

http://www.bushlies.net/liesatoz.html

dtb:
Fox News is HARDLY crying. THEY were the ones doing Obama the favor by offering to put him on! Their rating would have SUFFERED by putting him, but they extended the courtesy to allow him to come on their most widely watched network, and convey his Marxist message, of governmnet run health care for everyone.
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Over the weekend I met up with an old Russian friend that I had many tussles with in my chess playing days. He told me a rather amusing story that parallels this. Back when he lived in the Soviet Union (before he defected to this country) you had a state run media that controlled the TV networks. So every time Brezhnev came out to make a speech, all the major networks were required to carry it. Well, one obscure network exclusively covered chess (very big thing in the Soviet union, be kind of like the NFL network here), and and it got to the point that every time Brezhnev came on TV, everyone outside the die hard supporters of Marxism, Bolshevism, Troskyism, Socialism (take your pick of the the euphemism)would all tune into the chess network, the one network not carrying Brezhnev. The rhetoric became so tiresome that literally no one outside the party die hards bothered to tune in.
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Much the same has happening here. No one out side the die hard Obama supporters are even paying attention to this guy any more. The rhetoric has become so tiresome, regurgitated, and rejected, that it's never going to gain majority public support. Fox news would have done him a huge favor, because their rating are CRUSHING all the other networks,simply because they are not a pro Obama network like all the rest. They really would have taken a ratings hit putting him on (which is why i said they were doing him a favor), and some people outside his core supporters may have actually tuned in to listen. For all the ex Clintonestas Obama has advising him, you think they would not make such poor calculations. However; there is no Dick Morris on his team, like there was with Clinton, who was the true political genius behind that administration. It really looks like total amateur hour with this bunch. Sure makes for a good laugh anyhow!

I can't believe what happens to adults when they can post anonymously on a newspaper blog.

Sally, Sally, Sally you make no sense, you must be a Dumbocrat no offense to all of you Obama Supporters but Obama makes promises that he can't keep or control I am considered a Mad Mob because I don't agree with Obama's trillion Dollar Bailout and I don't agree with his Health care plan. Obama has to have a tellaprompter if he doesn't have one he trips all over his tongue you shouldn't trust him he is just filling you with things you want to hear.

LOL

Then go somewhere else hayseed.

You fifth graders are getting boring.

Good one DiGriz I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it so I'll just sit back being a typical right wing goon!! LOL At least I won't dribble all over the keyboard.

"I didn't realize being ignorant and expressing that ignorance was a joke. If you have to tell people it was a joke, it wasn't funny."
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Of course you didn't realize it. You're not that bright. O.k., Sally, we'll use your logic:
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Sally, if you have to tell people it you are more intelligent than they are, you are not.

“I will not sign (a plan), if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period.”
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Reminds me of ANOTHER quote:
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"We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves." -- LBJ
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Yeah, of course we all know how that promise ended....

dtb; cant win the arguement so its race - yeah thats it. Did it ever occur to you that Fox has three stations & aired the speech on two of them. Its not like anyone that wanted to see the speech was denied the opportunity as it was on every other network. Also - have you checked the Nielsen ratings for that show? So You think you can dance had 6.6 million viewers that CHOSE to Not watch the televised infomercial about h care that once again - said nothing new.

Interesting that Fox News should be crying about being snubbed when they aired "So You Think You Can Dance" during his last speech when all the other networks aired it. Fox never would have done that that to a republican, or even a white democrat for that matter.

Rather ironical, but it was old George Stephenapolis (the ex Clintonesta) who gave the best interview to Obama on Sunday. He actually asked about ACORN, and pointed out how national health care would = a massive tax on almost everyone. The other clows gave real TOUGH questions like "can the White Sox still win the world series?". You could see how uncomfortable Obama was with Stephenapolis, and did not even do a very good job at waffling around the questions. Something he is normally very astute at, however, there was no teleprompter for those interviews. No doubt Stephenapolis is now on the enemies of the state's list, and life will be made a living hell now.
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It was kind of funny that obama refused to do Fox news Sunday with Cris Wallace. Obama always claimed you need to be open to all, and to even "sit down with your enemies". So I guess he can sit down with brutal dictators and apologize for America's past transgressions, but not with a reporter who would ask him tough questions about his domestic agenda. It was rather fitting that when Cris Wallace was asked about the snub he said: "In my 30 years of reporting, I have never dealt with a bigger bunch of cry babies in my life".

Obamas label promises remedies, but the box contains poison!

"Maybe Professor RAF lacks basic comprehension skills and an education. If you're so smart, you should take a class at a college or university and dazzle them.

"If you actually had a "real" education"

"these places of learning actually have standards. Sorry."

Once again, we are smarter and we know what's best for everyone else.

Obama does not know about Acorn/Apollo/SEIU Corruption, he did not know that they were getting billions of of Tax dollars through the Apollo Stimulus plan and also in the Health Care reform bills, he totally missed the millions of Tax payers who showed up at the doorsteps of Congress...So just what does the Spin Miester know? “Those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history”~~OBAMA
Oh yeah he knows that..hmmm prophetic utterings

Yes keep dribbling, it shows everyone how ignorant and undedicated you are.

I have stayed out of this for a day and a half, but can't any longer. Obama cannot tell the truth. If he does he will either expose his true far left agenda or will anger the far left. So he simply says whatever the crowd he is speaking to wants to hear, unless its a republican, and even then he dribbles little statements to appeal. In the end -- I am not sure we can find any politician that will state their true feelings 100% of the time. They measure polls and say what the audience wants to hear. The ones with true convictions then do what they want regardless of the consequences and even say they did not. Obama is just a politician. He just happens to be extreme left. As long as you ignore his attempts to appeal to your side, and recognise his left wing slant, you will be fine. He will only weaken this nation and destroy our ability to create wealth and defend ourselves.

To bad I wasn't talking to RAF, however, we are all aware that Professor RAF lacks basic comprehension skills and an education. If you're so smart, you should take a class at a college or university and dazzle them. Oh wait - these place of learning actually have standards. Sorry.

Chainsaw, I didn't realize being ignorant and expressing that ignorance was a joke. If you have to tell people it was a joke, it wasn't funny.

Gee Sally can't you even take a joke? maybe not........I have been called many things but a goon? LOL I love it!! thanx for my next nickname!!

More meaningless dribble from sally. Makes statements of others statements being wrong, yet provides no facts of her own. Provides an under estimate of the US population together with nuclear weapons and companies with no relevance to the topic or each other. Creates sentences with improper structure and misspellings, then proceeds to tell others they are uneducated. Sadly indeed...

chainsaw, makes an accusation without any knowledge which is typical right wing goon. DizzyGirls, simply quotes me underscoring an ability to think for himself or with any originality. Jacmarien makes statements about how the government is too complicated: evidently he doesn't realize that we have 300 million people, nuclear weapons and companies who have dumped their toxic waste wherever it is convenient for them.

In a country that espouses freedom and liberty laws have to be carefully crafted because laws that are vague and uncomplicated are often struck down as unConstitutional. Maybe if you actually had a "real" education you would know this and could navigate the complicated: clearly you do not. Sadly, you and your brown shirted comrades only care about being cheap and ignorant.

I'll bet Sally was behind it or under it....mymaro

got to love copy and paste!!

Woa, what just happened. The original post wasn't bad enough to remove. Andre, is that a different post snazzyj had that you copied? That one's bad.

snazzyj1977
Aug 30, 2009 at 10 p.m.
Suggest removal

Hey janesvillesucks,

Osama=Bush

Cheney=Satan

Carl Rove=Angel Of Death

Time to get over your crushing loss in November already and start working together...like the people listed above did...lol.
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Sounds like she is ready to take her own advice, LOL.

Jacmarien, your comment pretty much sums up the hypocrisy of her post!

snazzyj1977, it's pretty difficult to take seriously a call to work together while simultaneously calling half the country racist baby righties, don't you think?

This is what big government does. When you try to force EVERYBODY into a cookie cutter program, no one is happy. There should only be a very few limited things the federal government controls. We all shouldn't have to have Ph.D's and a team of lawyers to study politics and what our government is doing. It's way too big. It's way too complicated. No to government run health care. What every single post on here demonstrates is a total and complete lack of trust in the government. And who do we go to when the federal government is controlling everything and we're still not happy? Exactly how much of our lives are we going to give control of to the federal government. Let's make one monstrous system that runs it all: our money, our health care, our morals, our education, our families, our jobs, our laws, our businesses, and then let's trust that they'll do the right thing or that we will be able to keep track of their shell game and be able to stop it when they get out of control, even though they already are out of control.

doesnt lie - huh? anybody remember this - Slick Willie didnt smoke dope either - didnt inhale.

Sally, your lack of facts and details is indicative of your ideology. What did the media do or say exactly? How many times did they say it?

Everyone should have medical care. Why not take away the perks congress gave themselves, (who by the way work for, we the people) and give the perks to all of us AMERICAN citizens.

I think we can all agree that regardless of which isle our politicians are on they should be held accountable for their actions!! http://www.cc2009.us/ - Fighting for the Constitution.
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Is this acceptable politics? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgUCdefS...
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But that's what's happening! On BOTH sides! So do we want them controlling any kind of health care? I say no!
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But is not the health care in this country ridiculous? YES!! Look how much you are charged for one tablet of Ibuprofen at a hospital. It's criminal!
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Look at the difference you are charged if you HAVE an insurer or not! People with Insurance companies are charged more!
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I had a son 6 months ago at Mercy - and whenever a dr. comes in to look at all the babies in the nursery - EACH child's bill increases over $125. For a 2 minute peak at! And what worse! It's different depending on which Dr. is on duty! We had another Dr. charge $150 - and he did nothing but stick his head in! ROBBERY! I don't think anybody (Insurance, Gov't, US) should have to pay for bogus charges like that.
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Does there need to be health care reform? YES!! Should the government control health care? NO- they've been wasting our money for decades!
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I say put health care on the back burner for now and first go after our politicians and hold them accountable! This country should be in the hands of the people and not the politicians. Once we have people in place that will be held accountable for their actions/votes/decisions - then you will see more progress towards a viable health care solution!

Yes sally, all my comments are here to echo yours...

RAF of the goon squad can't think of anything original and has to steal what other people say.

"profoundly ignorant."
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That about sums up your comments most of the time.

DizzyGirl and the goon squad's attacks are atypical of their ideology: stolen and sophomoric. Clearly, they can't think of anything on their own. They simply repeat back what you say to them or bring up the Constitution which they clearly haven't read or talk about the founding of the country, forgetting that only a very small minority got to vote. And that sums up their ideology: minority rule by them. They are a part of an elite that is profoundly ignorant. Their combined education sits somewhere around the tenth grade.

*DG - Thanks, you at least attempted to answer without resorting to personal attacks as some do."
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I guess you must be including yourself, you are the one that started the name calling. Scroll back jimbofish and see who called me andrea. As they say, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

sarahb1, you always like to point me out, but I notice you didn't take your liberal cohort to task for calling names first. Read the comments and you will see that jimbofish started the name calling when he called me andrea, but you ignored that didn't you. I merely went down the same road he did. Now, if you are going to point out all my infractions, make sure you do the same equally. Otherwise, shut up!

LOL@ mymaro

Jimbofish, first, your question is erroneous. You unequivocally state the Iraq constitution was written (formulated) by the US, when it was written by a committee of 55 members, all Iraqi. Second, your question has changed from the original one questioning the amount of money spent (which was answered and you ignored) to one now of equivalency (as stated by DiGriz).

You're welcome, Jimbo. I hope that answer provided some perspective, at least. I leave the personal attacks to people like Sally, but I bite back, when bitten first, or if I can count on them idiotically gainsaying anything I happen to comment on (again, like Sally), unless the person biting is a simpleton, in which case I make one obvious exception frequently.
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Your question was valid and a good one as it stood if the playing field was equal.

never really liked figs........now oranges, there you go I'll take some of those!!

DG - Thanks, you at least attempted to answer without resorting to personal attacks as some do.

"I'm just trying to understand the hypocrisy of Universal health care being good for an Iraqi Democracy under the US formulated Constitution, but somehow it is a terrible thing for the US Democracy under our Constitution. It's just a simple question that no one seems able or wants to answer."
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First of all, Jim, though your question would be a good one that would have me scratching my head too if all things were equal, all things are not equal. They have a different system of finance and culture in Iraq. They are nothing like our culture here. That's why they like to kill us. One might ask what the Afghans are going to do about health care? I can tell you. Nothing unless it is provided for by charities or the state. The people are too poor, ignorant, and tribal - they have no national identity like we do, something that the Iraqi's deal with every day, too. The point is, there is a marked difference in culture, that to be fair, must be entered into the equation. To ignore that fact is not fair when asking your question. The American situation and the Iraqi situation are entirely different on a cultural level that most Americans find hard to understand. Try to make them equal, and you are comparing figs to oranges.

Not as founded, Jim.

Actually, we are a Democratic Republic.

"it is a terrible thing for the US Democracy under our Constitution."
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Jimbo - we are a Republic, not a democracy. We look more democratic now, because of politicians abusing the power that the founding fathers provided even while warning us of the peril of becoming a democracy, but we were, and should be, a Republic, and nothing else.

"So, all this debt obama is running up with tax payer money isn't a waste?"
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Andre - it's worse than that. We are not really talking about tax-payer money here. He'd have to borrow against our nation's "credit power" as every government program like this does. All we are doing is spending ourselves further and further into debt we cannot pay back - one thing that has led to the financial crisis recently. And who, pray tell, is buying up the bonds to receive the interest? Anyone?? (hint - to the left of Japan on a map, physically and ideologically)

I posed an issue for debate but andrea wants to ignore that and move to other questions first. I'll restate it again, all else being put aside. I'm just trying to understand the hypocrisy of Universal health care being good for an Iraqi Democracy under the US formulated Constitution, but somehow it is a terrible thing for the US Democracy under our Constitution. It's just a simple question that no one seems able or wants to answer.

The Gazette should stop publishing this guy's writing, and maybe all opinion columns. Instead of using this space to add to the angry din our public debate has become, use this space to provide the public with objective analyses of proposed policy. Or, if it must be political in nature, ask the area's elected officials to use the space to outline their positions.

from digriz""Would like nothing more than for him to get this country back on the right track, but that cant happen through lies and by misleading the citizens of this country."
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But that's how career politicians operate - what are they supposed to say then??"

UMMMMM......... UHHHHHH...... Oh I dont know, HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH for once! When we voted Obama into office we were promised "change". Nothing has changed, his deceit and lying is right on par with the past presidents. Maybe he could stick by his promises and "change" the way politicians treat the citizens of our country. But why would he do that when people like you enable him to lie to y our face?

Andre continues to use personal attacks. Did your debate coach really teach you that?

"I already have excellent health care."
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You have excellent health care. So the system that is in place now is working for you, but you want the government, that can't run anything right, to meddle with your "excellent" health care? How much sense does that make?

Ah, look who shows up, the person that thinks she is the blog moderator. Now you think you can tell people how to engage in debate. You answer any question you like lady. I've asked several question of jennysofishy and they haven't answered one.

Jimbofish, you were provided with the reason the money was provided, you have decided to ignore or not read it and continue down the road of illusions. As soon as you care to debate, with reason and honesty, I will be more than happy to answer more of your questions.

Andre: Would you PLEASE answer his question so the two of you can move on!!!!!

jennysofishy, Me refusing to answer the question? You haven't given an intelligent answer to anything. You are like a kid that says, cause, then told, cause is not an answer. Just because you typed what you thought was a response, doesn't translate into a proper answer to the question asked. Come back when you get that G.E.D and maybe you'll be able to hold your own, until then, you are going to continue to lose the arguments you try to engage in.

Sorry andrea I already have excellent health care.

It appears you're just refusing to address the question or even debate it at all. I can understand that when you have no logical thought process or formulate a cohesive answer to a simple question. I could get farther with a dead horse. Still no answers.

Jimbo......I don't think that we should have given the Iraqi government money to subsidize their health care. Seriously though--You cannot be comparing a billion dollar expense to a trillion dollar expense. They are not even remotely comparable. If overhauling the US health care system came down to a billion dollar expenditure, I suspect it would have been happily done years ago.....

Darwin--concentrate on the issue--please focus.
It will NOT cost more because of improved services and is not the price of progress. The government has entered into the health care marketplace with Medicare/Medicaid and they are resounding failures with fraud and inefficiencies that are MUCH GREATER than found in the private carriers. This is acceptable to them because there is no accountability and they have an endless reserve of taxpayer money to fund their mess. Why are they so against fixing Medicare/Medicare FIRST--prove that they can make it work and then propose widespread reform???? Can anyone answer this question for me?

"Name another country where we formulated their Constitution and spelled out that Universal health care is a citizens right."
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What it your point?
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First you are talking about tax payer money, then invading, then the formulation of constitutions?
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Perhaps you should study what the US did after WW2 to help rebuild countries that were "invaded" to get the answers you are trying to get here. Basically it boils down to: You want universal health care. You want someone to pay for your health care. That's it in a nut shell, is it not?

You are very inexperienced when it comes to debating that is plain to see. It's beginning to show that you aren't as smart as you think you are, you appear to be parroting the mantra that you probably read on someones opinion page but can't use your own rational thinking to justify your own opinion. This is like dueling with an unarmed man.

Answer my question and I'll be glad to answer yous again.

Name another country where we formulated their Constitution and spelled out that Universal health care is a citizens right.

You gave an answer? Really? Did you answer this question? "Can you explain why any foreign country receives US tax payer money for anything?"?

Who's talking about "invading" countries? I thought we were talking about the use of tax payer money. But, to your accusation that we "invade" countries. Was going into Iraq a republican venture alone? No democrats voted for that action, is that what you are implying?

I just gave an answer. And you still haven't answered.

Still no answer from you either? For someone that seems to demand answers from others, you sure manage to do the side step maneuver.

We didn't invade all the other countries like we did Iraq and then formulate their Constitutions. And still no answer.

Can you explain why any foreign country receives US tax payer money for anything? Perhaps you can't? We'll be waiting for your answer also.

As I suspected, still no answer.

Ask your current president why. He is currently running the show. He asked for the job. Apparently he can't handle it. He'll probably just give another speech that sounds like a campaign oration. Each dollar being spent is his responsibility. Each military death is his responsibility. Looks like he is faltering on another campaign promise to bring the troops home, among the many others he has reneged on so far.

Still no one has explained why Iraq deserves health care at US taxpayer expense. Maybe it's because you can't.

Good one andre, LOL, can he take Sally (darwin) with him?????

jimsofishy, Don't worry about me keeping up junior. So, all this debt obama is running up with tax payer money isn't a waste? I suppose not because it is a democrat idea, right?

andrea- I never said it was working, please try to keep up and don't suggest things I never said. It's a big waste of taxpayer money, but you can't understand that because it was a Republican idea.

Sally, your lack of facts and details is indicative of your ideology. What did the media do or say exactly? How many times did they say it?

jimbofish, if you think the Iraqi health care system is working so well, then move there. Come back and tell us how well that worked out for you.

darwin, you should be preaching your diatribe to those in the democrat party. They control the house, the senate, and the presidency. They don't need ONE republican vote to pass this health care debacle. They don't want to do it alone because they know that when it fails, and it will, they alone will be held accountable and their grip on power will be a short lived spectacle.

The Bush Administration gave $1,000,000,000 to the Iraqi Government for its universal health care system. Are you implying the infant Iraqi Government is more trustworthy and better equipped to oversee our money than the US Government? No one here has still given a reason why Iraq deserves a universal health care system funded with US taxpayer dollars and the US doesn't. I guess because it was a Republican idea, then it's a good thing.

"Would like nothing more than for him to get this country back on the right track, but that cant happen through lies and by misleading the citizens of this country."
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But that's how career politicians operate - what are they supposed to say then??

It is a false assumption to suppose that the private sector has done or will do a better job; they have not. Of course it will cost more, this is the price of progress. Roads, sewers, electricity all cost more but very few people would consider giving them up, even libertarians, because they improve and extend our lives. Much of the increased cost will come from people living longer which is according to the CBO. The President is given little choice here considering the fraud, deception and hyperbole advanced by the right wing brown shirts.

First, we would have hyperinflation. Then Obama is a socialist, marxist or whatever -ist they can invent but not know the definition of. After that, there were "death panels". Cheap, ignorant and lying is not an ideology or a philosophy.

The idea that all lies are equal is a clear demonstration of right wing moral relativism. Bill Clinton lied about a private matter and the right wing nut jobs wanted him impeached. George Bush lies, tortures, holds citizens indefinitely and the right wing goons make excuses for him. Obama, accordingly to this very article, doesn't lie but somehow now he does and then some. Drink some more generic cool-aid.

Jimbo--So what??? Regardless of where it comes from, it is there. Until the government can make something as relatively small as Medicare/Medicaid a successful model, there is NO WAY that they should be given access to $1,000,000,000,000 taxpayer dollars and the means to reshape 1/6 of the US economy.....Any rational person would have to agree with this...

916...the fraud and waste you cite is due more to the health and insurance industries scamming the system.

Jimbofish.....Medicare/Medicaid can easily be used to defend a position against national health care reform because they represent an example of what happens when the government tries to enter this sector of the economy. They are both overrun with waste, fraud, and inefficiencies. They are not viable in any way and are on the verge of going broke. Our president himself testifies to this fact. I would say that is reason enough to keep government as far away from health care as possible--Wouldn't you agree?

I find it ironic that you use "socialist" programs like Medicare and Medicaid to defend your position.

jimbofish I am not looking for your applause, only want you to support your statement with facts. Your claim, republicans don’t want money spent on healthcare is fictitious. The US government already spends Trillions every year on healthcare, in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, and SHIP, to name only three; 1,000 times your claim of money spent once for Iraq.

If you would like, to discuss rationally, the opposition to having our government play an expanding role in healthcare I am more than welcome.

Oh, hold your right-wing horses ... I was being sarcastic and only repeating what I have heard from a good majority of Obama-bashers since he was elected president last November. If I had a dime for each time I read a comment letting me know it was OK to attack Obama because Bush was bashed for eight years, I would jump into a higher tax bracket. I personally wish the attacks from both sides would stop. The over-the-top protesting that has been building over the past couple of months has reached a level that is frightening. I hope it doesn't incite some lunatic to go too far.

RAF- I applaud your efforts to defend the hypocrisy of the Republican party, but the Iraqi Ministry of Health reported that the US spent over $1 billion dollars on their universal health care system. So explain why it's acceptable to spend $1 billion dollars of taxpayer money on the Iraqi universal health care system, but not acceptable to spend it on the US health care system?

Jimbofish, do you really want to stick with that as your “source” to support your position? The date of the story alone discredits your position; March 2004. I do understand reading comments and posts from various websites cause some people to get upset. First though, I think you owe it to yourself to understand the “evidence” you provide to back your claim.

4 months prior to your “evidence”, Saddam had been found in a hole in the ground. 14 months after your “evidence” the interim government was established in Iraq. Under international law; the US had obligations to support basic medical needs of Iraq during the time frame when their government collapsed and a new one was formed.

This tiny timeline shows the funding you so happily quoted had nothing to do with any Iraqi constitution; written 19 months later.

Obama hasnt reached Bushs level yet, but you never know. Accepting the lies now will more than likely only lead to bigger lies down the road. Hes still got over 3 years left on his term. Would like nothing more than for him to get this country back on the right track, but that cant happen through lies and by misleading the citizens of this country.

SarahB1, you cant be serious? That is pretty darn ignorant. Everyone knows Bush lied, no doubt there. But to allow the current president to do the same just because the last one did is pathetic. But I would expect nothing less out of one of Obamas sheep.

?

Ever hear the saying, "two wrongs dont make a right"? Apparently some of you think two wrongs do make a right. Sad, really sad.

WOW, so because Bush did it its ok for Obama to do it huh? Unbelievable.

mymaro: Why not? That technique was perfected by Bush's backers.

The thing that is really "utterly amazing" is that someone would justify Obamas lies and deceit by rehashing the lies of the last president. Yes Bush and his cronies lied, but how in the heck can that excuse Obama? Ridiculous.

oops, should have read because Bush was a liar .....

Theres a few comments like this one from NVgrf-"How can anyone accuse this President of misdirection and misleading after the lies and deceit of the Bush years? Utterly amazing!!".
)_______________________________

So because was a liar that means Obama cant be a liar? Or that we should overlook Obamas lies?

Gee Sally, it is Kool-Aid not cool-aid when you going to get it right? I agree with DiGriz you need to find your meds. the Kool Aid is staining your shirt.

You're right people should just forget the fact that Newt and Mark Sanford both called for Bill Clinton's resignation. They should forget that Rush Limbaugh said that Daryl Strawberry was a worthless drug addict and then cried for the ACLU. Yes, we should just let the right lie and bully their way around like the brown shirts they are. Yes, we should forget all about it. Talk about drinking cool-aid.

DIGriz, I`m not saying the money should be held by the political parties, but by the government, or an impartial organization, then given out during the elections. I do think a limit should be set on how much a Presidential, Senate, House candidate should be able to spend, and that amount given to each. Let`s set a limit, maybe the electioneering will not run for years like now, but be compressed to a few months. And, candidates could really speak their minds without worry of losing donors.

Wow, this back and forth name calling is simple "playground warfare". Whether anyone can agree with something you say... once you follow it up with complete direct and ANONYMOUS rudeness - you lose all credibility.

And you both are proving to be a real part of the problem in this country and not any help towards a solution.

So have a discussion and question points of view - but for crying out loud - leave the "My dad can beat up your dad" argument and name-calling out of it.

Or keep name-calling - just post your real full name at the end of your comment.

Moe, I think pharm was saying that the money should go to the different political parties, not individuals. I personally don't think that's going to work. Part of the problem IS the parties themselves. Give all the money to be doled out by policial organizations, and they will let good people go without in order to get rotten people elected, which means you are going to have a lot of heinie's kissed rather than babies.
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Say something stupid again, Sally...

Sally, the bile is really coming up from you today. And you are slobbering all over yourself.... Forget to take your meds again?

Sally, your lack of facts and details is indicative of your ideology. What did the media do or say exactly? How many times did they say it?
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GFY, Sally.

Sally, don't you have a rock that needs warming up on the underside waiting for you?

I agree with you pharm. I think we should also eliminate parties. That way, these guys have to run on issues and issues alone and can't just pander to party lines to get elected.

You shouldn't be able to spend more on an election than 10 average families combined make in a year. That seems ridiculous to me.

DIGriz, term limits by themselves do nothing. The campaign money will just flow to new people each cycle. Only by having the funding mechanism changed will any real representation occur. The Supreme Court, contrary to following precedent as they said when in confirmation hearings, is about to rule to open the cash doors for unions and corporations for campaign funds. I believe all campaign money should go to a fund for Democrats, one for republicans, Libertarians, LaRouchies, etc. Then, only a set amount of money should be allowed to be spent on Presidential, senate, house elections. Take away the personal funding for individual candidates, and make it "pool' money.

You should have disagreements with your leaders and your colleagues, but if it becomes immediately a question of questioning people's motives, and if immediately you decide that somebody who sees a whole new situation differently than you must b...e a bad person and somehow twisted inside, we are not going to get very far in forming a more perfect union.

DizzyGirl quotes a nameless marine general who probably stills resents African Americans being integrated into his navy. Conservatives hate political correctness because there is nothing correct about them. They can't read the Constitution, they lie, practice hypocrisy and moral relativism and use analogies and anecdotes as forms of evidence. There leaders are homosexual hating homosexuals, adulterers who hate adulterers, believe deficits don't matter until they are no longer in office and believe torture is good for others but not themselves.

When the stimulus packages was passed, they claimed we would have hyperinflation. It hasn't happened. Now the sky is falling again.

I like the crap analogy. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from a Marine General:
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"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional illogical liberal minority & rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous liberal press which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

More shovels = less manure.

Best analogy I can think of about our politics. A dog (insert president/politicians name here) comes and craps in your house. What do the rest of our politicians do? They spray air freshener on the pile of crap! So now you got a pile of crap that smells like Potpourri. But is it not still a pile of crap? Shouldn't you clean up the pile of crap? And shouldn't you discipline the dog and teach it so it doesn't crap in your house again?

Politics is simply socially acceptable discrimination... You can't discriminate for race, religion, sexual orientation, age, gender, disabilities..... but politics? Have at it!!!

Look at all of you who hold so tightly to your party lines -- and all you can do to make "your situation" look better is to bring up something the other party did during their presidency.

You can't change history... and one administrations mistakes/mis-guidance/ridiculous lies - do not make it acceptable for the next administration to blatantly make mistakes/mis-guide us/or tell us ridiculous lies!!

Your presidential candidates are the ones that are sought out by their respective parties... (hello!!!! Political Agenda???) Then they back their pony with a ton of money and pollute everything you see/hear with their propaganda.

It's simply marketing to make you buy into their product..."Head On - Apply Directly to your head... Head On - Apply Directly to your head... Head On - Apply Directly to your head!"

Well said, Matthew516! I agree with your comments, which make a GREAT case for why we need a constitutional convention on the issue of TERM LIMITS. Separate the wheat from the chaff, and let's get some honest Americans elected to represent us. If we don't, we will go the way of Rome, and history will repeat itself. The only difference I see is that the Togas were replaced by business suits. We are already way down that road, and may have passed the last exit, now that we have allowed our elected officials to play with the constitution in ways that benefit themselves and not we the people. I fear that Caesar Barrackus Obominus is heading for a constitutional convention, but only to make a provision for universal health care in the constitution where there isn't one already.

Wednesday, March 03, 2004

Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson says

WASHINGTON — Fresh from a two-day weekend visit to Iraq, the Bush administration's top health-care official defended the $950 million that will be spent to help Iraq establish universal health care.

Why is it that people can't have an honest negative opinion about Obama without others bringing up past presidents?? This article was about Obama! I don't get into the republican vs democrat game because they're both cut from the same cloth when it's said and done! Every 4 years the American people get sucked into this too! Both sides do thier part in charming the American public and speak their lame redirect as to how they're going to unite a country when the truth is, they can't even get on the same page themselves, muchless set the example for a country to be worthy of following! It's not about republican or democrat, it's about somewhere in the middle where the truth is! It's called LEADERSHIP....something we haven't had in years!

I watched 20/20 tonight and I have figured out how to get free healthcare! The story was about a man who knew he had HIV and deliberately slept with numerous women, thereby infecting at least 6 of them. The victims that don't have health insurance say the medications for HIV and AIDS run about $2500.00 a month. But the man, who was found guilty and now sits in jail, gets all of his medicines and doctor visits for FREE!! I'm so glad we are taking care of our hard working, tax paying citizens that contribute so much to our society. Oh, wait....he doesn't pay taxes. We pay for him to have a place to sleep and food to eat. We pay for his expensive medical treatments.

And I also saw a commercial to sponsor children in less fortunate countries the other night. For a few bucks a day that child can go to school, get free medical and dental, free clothes. I would love to help those children, but shouldn't we be worrying about our own children first? There is a huge uproar that healthcare may cost us, but I don't see anyone complaining about sending money overseas. Most think that is a very noble and saintly thing to do. I hope those people never have to tell their child they can't have the medicines or tests they need to make them feel better because they cannot afford it.

Obama doesn’t lie; he implies, misdirects, misleads ? Let's not forget that Congress pretty much tells him what he can say. All a bunch of fat old lame no clue misdirected overpaid pencil pushers.

Jimbo, I would be more than glad to explain to you why they get free healthcare, provided by the US taxpayer, as soon as you provide any FACTS to support your claim US taxpayers are paying for all the people of Iraq’s and Afghanistan’s healthcare. If you can’t I guess then there is nothing to explain.

Your next quoted question is even easier to answer; “…why you are so against the citizens from your own country being denied health care?” We are very much opposed to any US citizen being denied health care, yes; as a matter of law this is also true.

Any other questions?

"The Iraqi Constitution was crafted by the Bush Administration"

Well with facts like this, it is no doubt that the US taxpayers are funding healthcare everywhere but here...

Thank you for the ongoing reality checks from "over there", DiGriz. Keep 'em coming! I watch videos like the one linked below and have trouble convincing myself it isn't already too far gone to bother.

matthew516: The type of behavior you blame on Obama and Clinton has been going on since the beginning of time.

Matthew: Were you refering to Obama or I would more likely believe that it was Cheney/Bush! I'm sure you won't see the irony in that. To focused on hate instead of solutions.

Article 31 of the Iraqi Constitution reads,

Every citizen has the right to health care. The State shall maintain public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and health institutions.

The Iraqi Constitution was crafted by the Bush Administration. Where do you think this money came from to provide this?

And remember the Bush Administration saying the oil revenues in Iraq would pay for the war? How much of that money have we've seen returned to the US? The right wing wants to talk about lies? They should look no further than their own party.

Obama is an abomination! He's a black version of Bill Clinton. In his mind, not telling the whole truth isn't lying......when infact, not telling the whole truth is actually lying! Another post-modern principle that the self servers have created to serve themselves. It's called, NO CHARACTER, NO INTEGRITY and NO HONOR and NO GOOD!

How can anyone accuse this President of misdirection and misleading after the lies and deceit of the Bush years? Utterly amazing!!

Sally, your lack of facts and details is indicative of your ideology. What did the media do or say exactly? How many times did they say it?

"Furthermore, can any of you right wing cons explain to us why the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan get free health care at the expense of the US taxpayers"
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Well, contrary to what Sally says, I'm not a right-wing con. He just calls everyone who disagrees with him that due to his lack of gray matter, but anyway, I am not aware of any U.S. medical services being doled out to the Afghans. We bring them in and treat them when they are injured, usually by us..but that is no different than emergency room laws in the U.S. Most medical aid is given by charities here, mostly from Europe. You might recall an incident in one of them a couple of weeks ago, where they accused U.S. troops of ransacking the clinic and tying them up. Didn't happen like that. Some Europeans just don't like us that much. That answer your question?
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By the way, Sally, ESAD.

Jimbo - awesome video.

Jimbofish: I watched the video and it scares me how little these people know. That video speaks volumes as to how we got to 'Death Squads' and 'Killing Grandma'. I give it 5 stars!

jimbo: It’s news to me that the US government is providing free health care to every citizen of Iraq and Afghanistan. I don’t suppose you can cite a valid reference on that? Or did you read an article about some special forces guys providing immunizations, or emergency dental work, or first aid, to some locals in their area?
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sarah: Both the left and right have their loonies. The biggest difference seems to be, the left likes to include them in their administration. Is Williams advocating assassinations? If so, you can be sure the Secret Service will have him locked up post haste. If not, where in the world are you coming up with your assumption?

I have watched three interviews with Express Tea Party leader Mark Williams. That man is the scariest person I've ever seen. He seems to be doing his best to push those riding the edge of sanity over to the other side (AKA insanity) in hopes they will indirectly help him attain his goals. If assassinations start to occur, I am holding Mr. Williams responsible.

This video demonstrates just how little the T-baggers actually know what they're protesting about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq...

Furthermore, can any of you right wing cons explain to us why the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan get free health care at the expense of the US taxpayers and why you are so against the citizens from your own country being denied health care?

darwin shows up again to critique a conservative op ed, and condemn with emotional vitriol without validly refuting a word the man said. And just to show how sadly lacking he is in intelligence, he resorts to calling the author names (“Krauthead”?).
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Try actually reading the piece above – go ahead and move your lips – and then tell us exactly how Krauthammer is wrong.

Lies, deceptions, half truths what ever you wish to call them..we see the greater truth and are standing up.
God Bless The Continental Congress
http://www.cc2009.us/
Join the Patriots on Saturday
http://www.fightbackwisconsin.com/index....

DizzyGirl, you're quoting yourself, pretending to quote me? Just another delusional Conservative.

Dick and Bush lie and when someone pointed out their lies they attacked them (Joe and Valerie Plame) like the brown shirts they and the Conservatives are.

No, vatoloco, not smarter than everyone just Conservatives. Just watch the video of tea baggers confronting Franken. He explains the medicare costs to this guy and then the guy asks him about it five minutes later. Conservatives with short attention spans and an inability to listen to anyone but themselves and their own ignorance, how surprising.

Darwin, mind if I rephrase one of your comments? It's almost correct....but needs something else to be substantive....hence:
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"But now that Bush isn't in office, they want to blame everyone else, shirk their responsibilities, and try to convince themselves they are really the majority, just like the Democrats have been doing for the last 8 years, but not quite as bad."

"Too bad Krauthead has no intelligence to insult in the first place"

Again, we are smarter than everyone else. We care more than everyone else and darn it, people must likes us.

I think most politcians "merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another." What's new?

I disagree w/Krauthammer. Obama lies. It's either that, or Obama hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. Which one is worse? Either way, this presidency is a complete and unmitigated disaster.

Too bad Krauthead has no intelligence to insult in the first place.

The only people drinking cool-aid are Conservatives who have suddenly found skepticism after 8 years of an imbecile president and two wars. If Bush was still in office, they would be repeating how great everything is, deficits don't matter and that the liberal media were just trying to bring their president down. But now that Bush isn't in office, they want to blame everyone else, shirk their responsibilities, and try to convince themselves they are really the majority.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep...

Exactly Pharm--Wouldn't it be a much more responsible move to concentrate on fixing Medicare first? Rid Medicare of the waste and fraud and prove to the people that it can be made viable before moving forward with anything. Is that too much to ask? Apparently yes in Obama's case........

I don't drink the kool-aid. ;)

What facts, this is an opinion piece. As for the half trillion in waste, fraud and abuse, Rep. Ryan cites the same figure in his health plan.

very nice piece in Washington Times today - he really will say whatever & change the facts later to match what he said.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep...

Another well written piece that will lack any refutes that are nearly as well written or facts that counter.

And you people continue to drink his cool aid. Becareful for what you wish for. Are we still at war? You knew it for sure when G.W. was President....

Brilliant!