rockcofarmer; what now? & your original point was what again?......

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...

I'm curious...if there is still no finalized healthcare bill (and here we are near the end of September), what exactly were they going to vote on before the August recess? It seems like a reasonable question.

Obama has been a huge disappointment.

Someday Sally you will understand.....Someday

Yes and the sun "could" go out tomorrow...another can of dribble by salty sally.

Once again RetiredDolly is wrong. The Supreme Court which is Conservative could rule that the Health Care Reform bill(s) are unConstitutional after being passed. Clearly, Conservatives don't trust other Conservatives otherwise they wouldn't be wetting themselves over their own delusional fears.

“No, I don't have an utter ignorance for our political system. “

Well in fact you do based on your earlier comment of “If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass.”

What kind of advice is that for the country as a whole? Just step aside and let something become law/policy regardless your view and constitution rights. This “thing” you tell others to step aside and let pass to see if it is good or bad will never go away when it passes…hence the ignorance.

It's all about lack of civility. You see it daily in many posts here. Is it necessary to start with a derogatory comment toward the receipient to belittle him or her.
-Was I off on a tangent, maybe, maybe not. My point is about Mr. Krauthammer who is seen on fox's infotainment network. Isn't it hypocritical that a person who pontificates on a network that blatantly distorts the truth, strike that,lies, would accuse the president of the same. The point of his opinion is to give Joe Wilson cover. The resulting comments from this piece and in other threads show that lack of civility. You see this daily from a select few just to get a response and then state "I was just joking". To that I say how immature.
-It sure seems hypocritical that the party of "NO" that was in charge not too long ago, didn't have a problem running up a deficit. Now they've got religion and don't want to spend a dime unless its a tax cut.
-tiredofhearingit: My point on referencing the gazette poll was to show that while unscientific, the poll showed that the majority of respondents were in favor of health care reform. Of 1475 against only a handful are overly vocal against it. Those same overly vocal opponents are against anything that is being proposed currently. The other point is, that poll after poll shows the same thing, a majority want reforms to happen. Does it reflect the nations view on this? I think that it does. And no I'm not an idiot but thanks for validating my original point.
-retiredairforce: No, I don't have an utter ignorance for our political system. You tend to pose questions that should be directed to our national leaders. I can't give you the answer why they are trying to get one republican to vote with them. I agree 51% is a majority and we shouldn't have to wait for 60%. Write Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi if you want those answers.
-digriz: No, I didn't take that as an insult. Childish and immature, yes, but then again I expected something more harsh along the lines of the explitive laced e-mail that I received from you. May I suggest anger management classes. As a insurance salesman you tend to lack people skills but that's just my opinion. One other thing, don't know who Randy or Betty are either.

LOL

No wonder we can't make any progress in this country. When adults start debating like adults and stop name-calling and acting like children throwing a tantrum, maybe then we can work together to solve our problems. One thing's for sure. Thank God or Buddah or Wayne Newton y'all aren't in charge.

Did anyone read Leonard Pitts in the Gazette today?
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Another excellent column. I strongly encourage everyone to read it.

Change & Transparency?
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...

Another great example of why the government should not be running your healthcare. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/090...

Sally; "If he and the rest of the Conservatives believed in what they were doing, why not war bonds?" - FACT: the vote in Congress was 296 to 133 to authorize the war in the first place - This INCLUDED Democrats - so why the lie towards Conservatives?

RetiredAirForce
Sep 23, 2009 at 8:12 p.m.
Suggest removal Whythink, why did you post Keith's idiotic rant about race? Nothing in this thread was brought up about the Presidents race until you interjected "For those saying it isn't about race...". I don't see how debating, the President, is racial at all.
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RAF
I don't believe it was idiotic or a rant but whatever.
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I thought I saw it discussed on this thread, perhaps it was a different article.
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My Bad!

More dribble from salty sally...

Whythink, why did you post Keith's idiotic rant about race? Nothing in this thread was brought up about the Presidents race until you interjected "For those saying it isn't about race...". I don't see how debating, the President, is racial at all.

Sally - the only thing in that entire rant you just gave was the first sentence - I have to give you credit though - I am truely impressed you were able to figure that out on your own - wait..a..minute.. I'll bet DiGriz went off line & explained it you you didnt he?

jvillerdr, this isn't a real debate and they aren't stupid, they are bigots. Stupid people don't know they are stupid, the Republican'ts do and don't care and even think there is something wrong with being intelligent.

This isn't really about race, but it is about ignorance. Look at how many times the word socialism is used. None of the Republican'ts know what it means or how it is applied in reality. If you read the goon squad's posts you will see people arguing over a Constitution that only exists in their tax-free big war spending reality. Clearly, they are afraid and scared little babies which is why they attack everyone who disagrees with them.

The fact is that the Bush protesters were right and truthful about him being a liar, torturer and someone who defiled the Constitution. Even Cheney admitted they did something wrong when he started talking about the statute of limitations. And we had to endure the Republican't mistakes and now their cowardice in not taking responsibility for what they did. Not only do they not take responsibility, the cry babies blame everyone else. The Republican'ts must admire Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's abilities of delusion.

So apparently what passes for argument these days is calling your debate partner stupid. Guess we could call that "playing the personal attack card." And the "this has nothing to do with anything because I said so" card. Neither tactic is remotely persuasive.

Whythink.....I don't know whether or not this makes me a racist, but I laughed out loud when I read the last line of your last post:)......I can't believe they came up with a song and titled it like that.......As far as the racist card goes--it's way overplayed. I have black friends and white friends and it's universally felt that there is both white and black trash with true racists making up only a very small part of our population on both sides.

vatoloco,
Imagine if the history of this country had been slavery of white people followed by citizenship with essentially no right followed by segregation and a decade plus of crimes against whites all from a dominant black population.
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Then, your senerio with GW would matter. It is the history of this country that makes educated people understand and look at crime of white on black or hispanic differently than vice versa.
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If you don't understand why racism is viewed today the way it is then I cannot help you. It was just 30-40 years ago that some schools were dealing with desegregation...and you wonder why this is an issues and the media covers certain things.
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Again, I don't believe it is all about race but anytime I hear someone say it is ONLY about the issue I know they are not being intellectually dishonest. Part of this debate is about the race of our current President.
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Some may be over using the race card on the left but it certainly is easy when the most popular right wing radio host plays a song entitled "Barack the Magic Negro."

Where is Rodney King when we need him??

Can't we all just get along?

nope

Funny how some people refuse on here to even consider that some people might possibly see anyone differently because of stereotypes or prejudice. I guess we've completely 100 percent wiped that out, just by electing one African American president! Who knew it was that easy?

As for Fox news, all they do is cry, cry, cry.

On the healthcare issue, Obama can't even admit the real reason that politicians know there is a need for national healthcare: Because thanks to NAFTA, the jobs are gone and they are not coming back, so we aren't going to have any employer-provided health care much longer. A lot of people already don't. You'd think people in a recession-weary area like this would get that simple concept. It isn't going to be long before it's public health care or no health care for a majority of people. So lower middle class people -- like most people on this blog -- will be dying for lack of access to needed treatment if they get something like leukemia. I know someone who had to survive a scare with an insurance company initially denying treatment just like that. Hope nobody here who opposes public health care complains when that happens to them.

Yes well, if Keith Olbermann (bath tub boy) and Media Matters says it's true...must be true; no bias there.

whythink-doesn't every channel have someone who lets the crowd know when they have gone live? What is scary about that? Get a grip and quit being so paranoid.

whythink; you missed one
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/21/...
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Of course, there are a$$es in every group but just because a person doesn't agree with Obama does not make them a racist. Did you agree with Bush all the time? or how about the 42 presidents before him - why? do you hate white men? How did it work out for National H Care when Clinton proposed it - different plan I understand , but still, was that about race as well when it failed? - get off the race card it only discredits your arguements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFlQesLLG...
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For those saying it isn't about race, at least somewhat about race, watch this. It is scary and sad.
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Nobody is playing the race card, it has already been played, by SOME racists.
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And those whom enjoy Fox News...tell me this isn't scary.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfmEo1jiC...

rockcofarmer; you've obviously spent way too much time in the barn again - the fumes must be getting to you. Most of your post doesn't even justify a response but I have to comment on 1 point -
If you think a Jvl Gazette poll reflects the Nationwide stance on health care - or even the true sentiment of ALL Jvl area residents - well your an idiot, what else can I say.
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Why dont you just go back out to your garden and try selling your line of crap to the animals on your "farm"

You have displayed an utter ignorance of our political system with the comment; “If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass.”.

If and when a bill is passed (yes something will pass) it will never be rescinded no matter how terrible it turns out to be for our country. We still have Amtrak, Medicare, Medicaid, Postal Service, and Social Security…all in a state of bankruptcy and take up ~ 45% of the Federal budget. Increasing the budget by another trillion a year (we all know it will be much greater that this) is not the answer.

Your misconceived attempt of claiming the minority party is thwarting or stalling anything further depicts your illogical view of our political system. With a majority in both houses and the White house there is nothing the minority party can do to stop it. If you are worried about it not passing you need to look to the leadership of the majority and ask, why with a clear majority has nothing passed already?

Farmer......What exactly are the distortions and fabrications discussed in this article? Without going off on a tangent--let's limit the discussion to the article. Please be specific--it was a relatively short article, I would like to know what was fabricated.......

Wow, what a start to the day. I get a 5th grade insult from the resident troll/insurance salesman and the vocal minority, the party of "NO" is at it again.
- At least we're somewhat on topic again. Mr Krauthammer's opinion piece is rather humourus considering he typically is on the sunday news panel on fox. If all you watch are the distortions and fabrications that emanate from the fox news channel then it makes sense that the rest of the media is incorrect.
-As far as wanting the president and the democrats to fail, how nice, very american of you. After eight years of poor governance with most problems getting worse now you expect that all these problems to be solved in mere months. It is not going to happen, this will take a long time to solve. As long as the minority party thwarts, stalls and lies about proposed solutions we will be no better in the future than we are now.
- What we need are more regulation on the banking and insurance industries, tax cuts that were passed in the first term of the bush administration for the upper income bracket need to be rescinded and replaced with targeted tax cuts IF you invest in job creation in the u.s. The health care industry needs to be revamped to make it more comprehensive and more affordable. Environmental and green technology as well as energy issues need to also be addressed.
-We had an election in november. The people have spoken. We want a new direction not the status quo. If you have any doubts on that as far as health care, check out the poll results that the gazette ran a week or so ago, 52% were for the current proposal.
-If you are so sure that these are poor policies that will cause our failure, get out of the way let them pass. If you are right the people will vote the party in power out and the government that is voted in will then have a chance to correct it.
- Just saying NO and continuing to do the same thing is insane. My opinion is that it is just selfishness on your part.
-Now it is time for this hayseed, this liberal to get to work and be productive. Have a nice day.

Too funny fdwjvl!!!!:) Still living in the past--huh? It's going to be interesting to see "Obama's lie list" after his first term is up. No doubt it will rival Bush's and probably surpass it considering he promised his clueless followers that he could do anything aside from walk on water......or did he make that claim as well?

http://www.bushlies.net/liesatoz.html

dtb:
Fox News is HARDLY crying. THEY were the ones doing Obama the favor by offering to put him on! Their rating would have SUFFERED by putting him, but they extended the courtesy to allow him to come on their most widely watched network, and convey his Marxist message, of governmnet run health care for everyone.
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Over the weekend I met up with an old Russian friend that I had many tussles with in my chess playing days. He told me a rather amusing story that parallels this. Back when he lived in the Soviet Union (before he defected to this country) you had a state run media that controlled the TV networks. So every time Brezhnev came out to make a speech, all the major networks were required to carry it. Well, one obscure network exclusively covered chess (very big thing in the Soviet union, be kind of like the NFL network here), and and it got to the point that every time Brezhnev came on TV, everyone outside the die hard supporters of Marxism, Bolshevism, Troskyism, Socialism (take your pick of the the euphemism)would all tune into the chess network, the one network not carrying Brezhnev. The rhetoric became so tiresome that literally no one outside the party die hards bothered to tune in.
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Much the same has happening here. No one out side the die hard Obama supporters are even paying attention to this guy any more. The rhetoric has become so tiresome, regurgitated, and rejected, that it's never going to gain majority public support. Fox news would have done him a huge favor, because their rating are CRUSHING all the other networks,simply because they are not a pro Obama network like all the rest. They really would have taken a ratings hit putting him on (which is why i said they were doing him a favor), and some people outside his core supporters may have actually tuned in to listen. For all the ex Clintonestas Obama has advising him, you think they would not make such poor calculations. However; there is no Dick Morris on his team, like there was with Clinton, who was the true political genius behind that administration. It really looks like total amateur hour with this bunch. Sure makes for a good laugh anyhow!

I can't believe what happens to adults when they can post anonymously on a newspaper blog.

Sally, Sally, Sally you make no sense, you must be a Dumbocrat no offense to all of you Obama Supporters but Obama makes promises that he can't keep or control I am considered a Mad Mob because I don't agree with Obama's trillion Dollar Bailout and I don't agree with his Health care plan. Obama has to have a tellaprompter if he doesn't have one he trips all over his tongue you shouldn't trust him he is just filling you with things you want to hear.

LOL

You fifth graders are getting boring.

Good one DiGriz I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it so I'll just sit back being a typical right wing goon!! LOL At least I won't dribble all over the keyboard.

dtb; cant win the arguement so its race - yeah thats it. Did it ever occur to you that Fox has three stations & aired the speech on two of them. Its not like anyone that wanted to see the speech was denied the opportunity as it was on every other network. Also - have you checked the Nielsen ratings for that show? So You think you can dance had 6.6 million viewers that CHOSE to Not watch the televised infomercial about h care that once again - said nothing new.

Interesting that Fox News should be crying about being snubbed when they aired "So You Think You Can Dance" during his last speech when all the other networks aired it. Fox never would have done that that to a republican, or even a white democrat for that matter.

Rather ironical, but it was old George Stephenapolis (the ex Clintonesta) who gave the best interview to Obama on Sunday. He actually asked about ACORN, and pointed out how national health care would = a massive tax on almost everyone. The other clows gave real TOUGH questions like "can the White Sox still win the world series?". You could see how uncomfortable Obama was with Stephenapolis, and did not even do a very good job at waffling around the questions. Something he is normally very astute at, however, there was no teleprompter for those interviews. No doubt Stephenapolis is now on the enemies of the state's list, and life will be made a living hell now.
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It was kind of funny that obama refused to do Fox news Sunday with Cris Wallace. Obama always claimed you need to be open to all, and to even "sit down with your enemies". So I guess he can sit down with brutal dictators and apologize for America's past transgressions, but not with a reporter who would ask him tough questions about his domestic agenda. It was rather fitting that when Cris Wallace was asked about the snub he said: "In my 30 years of reporting, I have never dealt with a bigger bunch of cry babies in my life".

Obamas label promises remedies, but the box contains poison!

Obama does not know about Acorn/Apollo/SEIU Corruption, he did not know that they were getting billions of of Tax dollars through the Apollo Stimulus plan and also in the Health Care reform bills, he totally missed the millions of Tax payers who showed up at the doorsteps of Congress...So just what does the Spin Miester know? “Those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history”~~OBAMA
Oh yeah he knows that..hmmm prophetic utterings

Yes keep dribbling, it shows everyone how ignorant and undedicated you are.

I have stayed out of this for a day and a half, but can't any longer. Obama cannot tell the truth. If he does he will either expose his true far left agenda or will anger the far left. So he simply says whatever the crowd he is speaking to wants to hear, unless its a republican, and even then he dribbles little statements to appeal. In the end -- I am not sure we can find any politician that will state their true feelings 100% of the time. They measure polls and say what the audience wants to hear. The ones with true convictions then do what they want regardless of the consequences and even say they did not. Obama is just a politician. He just happens to be extreme left. As long as you ignore his attempts to appeal to your side, and recognise his left wing slant, you will be fine. He will only weaken this nation and destroy our ability to create wealth and defend ourselves.

To bad I wasn't talking to RAF, however, we are all aware that Professor RAF lacks basic comprehension skills and an education. If you're so smart, you should take a class at a college or university and dazzle them. Oh wait - these place of learning actually have standards. Sorry.

Chainsaw, I didn't realize being ignorant and expressing that ignorance was a joke. If you have to tell people it was a joke, it wasn't funny.

Gee Sally can't you even take a joke? maybe not........I have been called many things but a goon? LOL I love it!! thanx for my next nickname!!

More meaningless dribble from sally. Makes statements of others statements being wrong, yet provides no facts of her own. Provides an under estimate of the US population together with nuclear weapons and companies with no relevance to the topic or each other. Creates sentences with improper structure and misspellings, then proceeds to tell others they are uneducated. Sadly indeed...

chainsaw, makes an accusation without any knowledge which is typical right wing goon. DizzyGirls, simply quotes me underscoring an ability to think for himself or with any originality. Jacmarien makes statements about how the government is too complicated: evidently he doesn't realize that we have 300 million people, nuclear weapons and companies who have dumped their toxic waste wherever it is convenient for them.

In a country that espouses freedom and liberty laws have to be carefully crafted because laws that are vague and uncomplicated are often struck down as unConstitutional. Maybe if you actually had a "real" education you would know this and could navigate the complicated: clearly you do not. Sadly, you and your brown shirted comrades only care about being cheap and ignorant.

I'll bet Sally was behind it or under it....mymaro

got to love copy and paste!!

Woa, what just happened. The original post wasn't bad enough to remove. Andre, is that a different post snazzyj had that you copied? That one's bad.

snazzyj1977, it's pretty difficult to take seriously a call to work together while simultaneously calling half the country racist baby righties, don't you think?

This is what big government does. When you try to force EVERYBODY into a cookie cutter program, no one is happy. There should only be a very few limited things the federal government controls. We all shouldn't have to have Ph.D's and a team of lawyers to study politics and what our government is doing. It's way too big. It's way too complicated. No to government run health care. What every single post on here demonstrates is a total and complete lack of trust in the government. And who do we go to when the federal government is controlling everything and we're still not happy? Exactly how much of our lives are we going to give control of to the federal government. Let's make one monstrous system that runs it all: our money, our health care, our morals, our education, our families, our jobs, our laws, our businesses, and then let's trust that they'll do the right thing or that we will be able to keep track of their shell game and be able to stop it when they get out of control, even though they already are out of control.

doesnt lie - huh? anybody remember this - Slick Willie didnt smoke dope either - didnt inhale.

Everyone should have medical care. Why not take away the perks congress gave themselves, (who by the way work for, we the people) and give the perks to all of us AMERICAN citizens.

I think we can all agree that regardless of which isle our politicians are on they should be held accountable for their actions!! http://www.cc2009.us/ - Fighting for the Constitution.
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Is this acceptable politics? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgUCdefS...
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But that's what's happening! On BOTH sides! So do we want them controlling any kind of health care? I say no!
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But is not the health care in this country ridiculous? YES!! Look how much you are charged for one tablet of Ibuprofen at a hospital. It's criminal!
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Look at the difference you are charged if you HAVE an insurer or not! People with Insurance companies are charged more!
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I had a son 6 months ago at Mercy - and whenever a dr. comes in to look at all the babies in the nursery - EACH child's bill increases over $125. For a 2 minute peak at! And what worse! It's different depending on which Dr. is on duty! We had another Dr. charge $150 - and he did nothing but stick his head in! ROBBERY! I don't think anybody (Insurance, Gov't, US) should have to pay for bogus charges like that.
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Does there need to be health care reform? YES!! Should the government control health care? NO- they've been wasting our money for decades!
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I say put health care on the back burner for now and first go after our politicians and hold them accountable! This country should be in the hands of the people and not the politicians. Once we have people in place that will be held accountable for their actions/votes/decisions - then you will see more progress towards a viable health care solution!

Yes sally, all my comments are here to echo yours...

RAF of the goon squad can't think of anything original and has to steal what other people say.

"profoundly ignorant."
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That about sums up your comments most of the time.

DizzyGirl and the goon squad's attacks are atypical of their ideology: stolen and sophomoric. Clearly, they can't think of anything on their own. They simply repeat back what you say to them or bring up the Constitution which they clearly haven't read or talk about the founding of the country, forgetting that only a very small minority got to vote. And that sums up their ideology: minority rule by them. They are a part of an elite that is profoundly ignorant. Their combined education sits somewhere around the tenth grade.

LOL@ mymaro

Jimbofish, first, your question is erroneous. You unequivocally state the Iraq constitution was written (formulated) by the US, when it was written by a committee of 55 members, all Iraqi. Second, your question has changed from the original one questioning the amount of money spent (which was answered and you ignored) to one now of equivalency (as stated by DiGriz).

never really liked figs........now oranges, there you go I'll take some of those!!

DG - Thanks, you at least attempted to answer without resorting to personal attacks as some do.

Actually, we are a Democratic Republic.

I posed an issue for debate but andrea wants to ignore that and move to other questions first. I'll restate it again, all else being put aside. I'm just trying to understand the hypocrisy of Universal health care being good for an Iraqi Democracy under the US formulated Constitution, but somehow it is a terrible thing for the US Democracy under our Constitution. It's just a simple question that no one seems able or wants to answer.

The Gazette should stop publishing this guy's writing, and maybe all opinion columns. Instead of using this space to add to the angry din our public debate has become, use this space to provide the public with objective analyses of proposed policy. Or, if it must be political in nature, ask the area's elected officials to use the space to outline their positions.

from digriz""Would like nothing more than for him to get this country back on the right track, but that cant happen through lies and by misleading the citizens of this country."
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But that's how career politicians operate - what are they supposed to say then??"

UMMMMM......... UHHHHHH...... Oh I dont know, HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH for once! When we voted Obama into office we were promised "change". Nothing has changed, his deceit and lying is right on par with the past presidents. Maybe he could stick by his promises and "change" the way politicians treat the citizens of our country. But why would he do that when people like you enable him to lie to y our face?

Jimbofish, you were provided with the reason the money was provided, you have decided to ignore or not read it and continue down the road of illusions. As soon as you care to debate, with reason and honesty, I will be more than happy to answer more of your questions.

Sorry andrea I already have excellent health care.

It appears you're just refusing to address the question or even debate it at all. I can understand that when you have no logical thought process or formulate a cohesive answer to a simple question. I could get farther with a dead horse. Still no answers.

Jimbo......I don't think that we should have given the Iraqi government money to subsidize their health care. Seriously though--You cannot be comparing a billion dollar expense to a trillion dollar expense. They are not even remotely comparable. If overhauling the US health care system came down to a billion dollar expenditure, I suspect it would have been happily done years ago.....

Darwin--concentrate on the issue--please focus.
It will NOT cost more because of improved services and is not the price of progress. The government has entered into the health care marketplace with Medicare/Medicaid and they are resounding failures with fraud and inefficiencies that are MUCH GREATER than found in the private carriers. This is acceptable to them because there is no accountability and they have an endless reserve of taxpayer money to fund their mess. Why are they so against fixing Medicare/Medicare FIRST--prove that they can make it work and then propose widespread reform???? Can anyone answer this question for me?

Answer my question and I'll be glad to answer yous again.

Name another country where we formulated their Constitution and spelled out that Universal health care is a citizens right.

I just gave an answer. And you still haven't answered.

We didn't invade all the other countries like we did Iraq and then formulate their Constitutions. And still no answer.

As I suspected, still no answer.

Still no one has explained why Iraq deserves health care at US taxpayer expense. Maybe it's because you can't.

Good one andre, LOL, can he take Sally (darwin) with him?????

andrea- I never said it was working, please try to keep up and don't suggest things I never said. It's a big waste of taxpayer money, but you can't understand that because it was a Republican idea.

The Bush Administration gave $1,000,000,000 to the Iraqi Government for its universal health care system. Are you implying the infant Iraqi Government is more trustworthy and better equipped to oversee our money than the US Government? No one here has still given a reason why Iraq deserves a universal health care system funded with US taxpayer dollars and the US doesn't. I guess because it was a Republican idea, then it's a good thing.

It is a false assumption to suppose that the private sector has done or will do a better job; they have not. Of course it will cost more, this is the price of progress. Roads, sewers, electricity all cost more but very few people would consider giving them up, even libertarians, because they improve and extend our lives. Much of the increased cost will come from people living longer which is according to the CBO. The President is given little choice here considering the fraud, deception and hyperbole advanced by the right wing brown shirts.

First, we would have hyperinflation. Then Obama is a socialist, marxist or whatever -ist they can invent but not know the definition of. After that, there were "death panels". Cheap, ignorant and lying is not an ideology or a philosophy.

The idea that all lies are equal is a clear demonstration of right wing moral relativism. Bill Clinton lied about a private matter and the right wing nut jobs wanted him impeached. George Bush lies, tortures, holds citizens indefinitely and the right wing goons make excuses for him. Obama, accordingly to this very article, doesn't lie but somehow now he does and then some. Drink some more generic cool-aid.

Jimbo--So what??? Regardless of where it comes from, it is there. Until the government can make something as relatively small as Medicare/Medicaid a successful model, there is NO WAY that they should be given access to $1,000,000,000,000 taxpayer dollars and the means to reshape 1/6 of the US economy.....Any rational person would have to agree with this...

916...the fraud and waste you cite is due more to the health and insurance industries scamming the system.

Jimbofish.....Medicare/Medicaid can easily be used to defend a position against national health care reform because they represent an example of what happens when the government tries to enter this sector of the economy. They are both overrun with waste, fraud, and inefficiencies. They are not viable in any way and are on the verge of going broke. Our president himself testifies to this fact. I would say that is reason enough to keep government as far away from health care as possible--Wouldn't you agree?

I find it ironic that you use "socialist" programs like Medicare and Medicaid to defend your position.

jimbofish I am not looking for your applause, only want you to support your statement with facts. Your claim, republicans don’t want money spent on healthcare is fictitious. The US government already spends Trillions every year on healthcare, in the form of Medicare, Medicaid, and SHIP, to name only three; 1,000 times your claim of money spent once for Iraq.

If you would like, to discuss rationally, the opposition to having our government play an expanding role in healthcare I am more than welcome.

RAF- I applaud your efforts to defend the hypocrisy of the Republican party, but the Iraqi Ministry of Health reported that the US spent over $1 billion dollars on their universal health care system. So explain why it's acceptable to spend $1 billion dollars of taxpayer money on the Iraqi universal health care system, but not acceptable to spend it on the US health care system?

Jimbofish, do you really want to stick with that as your “source” to support your position? The date of the story alone discredits your position; March 2004. I do understand reading comments and posts from various websites cause some people to get upset. First though, I think you owe it to yourself to understand the “evidence” you provide to back your claim.

4 months prior to your “evidence”, Saddam had been found in a hole in the ground. 14 months after your “evidence” the interim government was established in Iraq. Under international law; the US had obligations to support basic medical needs of Iraq during the time frame when their government collapsed and a new one was formed.

This tiny timeline shows the funding you so happily quoted had nothing to do with any Iraqi constitution; written 19 months later.

Obama hasnt reached Bushs level yet, but you never know. Accepting the lies now will more than likely only lead to bigger lies down the road. Hes still got over 3 years left on his term. Would like nothing more than for him to get this country back on the right track, but that cant happen through lies and by misleading the citizens of this country.

SarahB1, you cant be serious? That is pretty darn ignorant. Everyone knows Bush lied, no doubt there. But to allow the current president to do the same just because the last one did is pathetic. But I would expect nothing less out of one of Obamas sheep.

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Gee Sally, it is Kool-Aid not cool-aid when you going to get it right? I agree with DiGriz you need to find your meds. the Kool Aid is staining your shirt.

You're right people should just forget the fact that Newt and Mark Sanford both called for Bill Clinton's resignation. They should forget that Rush Limbaugh said that Daryl Strawberry was a worthless drug addict and then cried for the ACLU. Yes, we should just let the right lie and bully their way around like the brown shirts they are. Yes, we should forget all about it. Talk about drinking cool-aid.

DIGriz, I`m not saying the money should be held by the political parties, but by the government, or an impartial organization, then given out during the elections. I do think a limit should be set on how much a Presidential, Senate, House candidate should be able to spend, and that amount given to each. Let`s set a limit, maybe the electioneering will not run for years like now, but be compressed to a few months. And, candidates could really speak their minds without worry of losing donors.

Wow, this back and forth name calling is simple "playground warfare". Whether anyone can agree with something you say... once you follow it up with complete direct and ANONYMOUS rudeness - you lose all credibility.

And you both are proving to be a real part of the problem in this country and not any help towards a solution.

So have a discussion and question points of view - but for crying out loud - leave the "My dad can beat up your dad" argument and name-calling out of it.

Or keep name-calling - just post your real full name at the end of your comment.

Sally, don't you have a rock that needs warming up on the underside waiting for you?

I agree with you pharm. I think we should also eliminate parties. That way, these guys have to run on issues and issues alone and can't just pander to party lines to get elected.

You shouldn't be able to spend more on an election than 10 average families combined make in a year. That seems ridiculous to me.

DIGriz, term limits by themselves do nothing. The campaign money will just flow to new people each cycle. Only by having the funding mechanism changed will any real representation occur. The Supreme Court, contrary to following precedent as they said when in confirmation hearings, is about to rule to open the cash doors for unions and corporations for campaign funds. I believe all campaign money should go to a fund for Democrats, one for republicans, Libertarians, LaRouchies, etc. Then, only a set amount of money should be allowed to be spent on Presidential, senate, house elections. Take away the personal funding for individual candidates, and make it "pool' money.

You should have disagreements with your leaders and your colleagues, but if it becomes immediately a question of questioning people's motives, and if immediately you decide that somebody who sees a whole new situation differently than you must b...e a bad person and somehow twisted inside, we are not going to get very far in forming a more perfect union.

DizzyGirl quotes a nameless marine general who probably stills resents African Americans being integrated into his navy. Conservatives hate political correctness because there is nothing correct about them. They can't read the Constitution, they lie, practice hypocrisy and moral relativism and use analogies and anecdotes as forms of evidence. There leaders are homosexual hating homosexuals, adulterers who hate adulterers, believe deficits don't matter until they are no longer in office and believe torture is good for others but not themselves.

When the stimulus packages was passed, they claimed we would have hyperinflation. It hasn't happened. Now the sky is falling again.

More shovels = less manure.

Best analogy I can think of about our politics. A dog (insert president/politicians name here) comes and craps in your house. What do the rest of our politicians do? They spray air freshener on the pile of crap! So now you got a pile of crap that smells like Potpourri. But is it not still a pile of crap? Shouldn't you clean up the pile of crap? And shouldn't you discipline the dog and teach it so it doesn't crap in your house again?

Politics is simply socially acceptable discrimination... You can't discriminate for race, religion, sexual orientation, age, gender, disabilities..... but politics? Have at it!!!

Look at all of you who hold so tightly to your party lines -- and all you can do to make "your situation" look better is to bring up something the other party did during their presidency.

You can't change history... and one administrations mistakes/mis-guidance/ridiculous lies - do not make it acceptable for the next administration to blatantly make mistakes/mis-guide us/or tell us ridiculous lies!!

Your presidential candidates are the ones that are sought out by their respective parties... (hello!!!! Political Agenda???) Then they back their pony with a ton of money and pollute everything you see/hear with their propaganda.

It's simply marketing to make you buy into their product..."Head On - Apply Directly to your head... Head On - Apply Directly to your head... Head On - Apply Directly to your head!"

Wednesday, March 03, 2004

Universal care is right for Iraq, Thompson says

WASHINGTON — Fresh from a two-day weekend visit to Iraq, the Bush administration's top health-care official defended the $950 million that will be spent to help Iraq establish universal health care.

Why is it that people can't have an honest negative opinion about Obama without others bringing up past presidents?? This article was about Obama! I don't get into the republican vs democrat game because they're both cut from the same cloth when it's said and done! Every 4 years the American people get sucked into this too! Both sides do thier part in charming the American public and speak their lame redirect as to how they're going to unite a country when the truth is, they can't even get on the same page themselves, muchless set the example for a country to be worthy of following! It's not about republican or democrat, it's about somewhere in the middle where the truth is! It's called LEADERSHIP....something we haven't had in years!

I watched 20/20 tonight and I have figured out how to get free healthcare! The story was about a man who knew he had HIV and deliberately slept with numerous women, thereby infecting at least 6 of them. The victims that don't have health insurance say the medications for HIV and AIDS run about $2500.00 a month. But the man, who was found guilty and now sits in jail, gets all of his medicines and doctor visits for FREE!! I'm so glad we are taking care of our hard working, tax paying citizens that contribute so much to our society. Oh, wait....he doesn't pay taxes. We pay for him to have a place to sleep and food to eat. We pay for his expensive medical treatments.

And I also saw a commercial to sponsor children in less fortunate countries the other night. For a few bucks a day that child can go to school, get free medical and dental, free clothes. I would love to help those children, but shouldn't we be worrying about our own children first? There is a huge uproar that healthcare may cost us, but I don't see anyone complaining about sending money overseas. Most think that is a very noble and saintly thing to do. I hope those people never have to tell their child they can't have the medicines or tests they need to make them feel better because they cannot afford it.

Obama doesn’t lie; he implies, misdirects, misleads ? Let's not forget that Congress pretty much tells him what he can say. All a bunch of fat old lame no clue misdirected overpaid pencil pushers.

Jimbo, I would be more than glad to explain to you why they get free healthcare, provided by the US taxpayer, as soon as you provide any FACTS to support your claim US taxpayers are paying for all the people of Iraq’s and Afghanistan’s healthcare. If you can’t I guess then there is nothing to explain.

Your next quoted question is even easier to answer; “…why you are so against the citizens from your own country being denied health care?” We are very much opposed to any US citizen being denied health care, yes; as a matter of law this is also true.

Any other questions?

"The Iraqi Constitution was crafted by the Bush Administration"

Well with facts like this, it is no doubt that the US taxpayers are funding healthcare everywhere but here...

Thank you for the ongoing reality checks from "over there", DiGriz. Keep 'em coming! I watch videos like the one linked below and have trouble convincing myself it isn't already too far gone to bother.

Matthew: Were you refering to Obama or I would more likely believe that it was Cheney/Bush! I'm sure you won't see the irony in that. To focused on hate instead of solutions.

Article 31 of the Iraqi Constitution reads,

Every citizen has the right to health care. The State shall maintain public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and health institutions.

The Iraqi Constitution was crafted by the Bush Administration. Where do you think this money came from to provide this?

And remember the Bush Administration saying the oil revenues in Iraq would pay for the war? How much of that money have we've seen returned to the US? The right wing wants to talk about lies? They should look no further than their own party.

Obama is an abomination! He's a black version of Bill Clinton. In his mind, not telling the whole truth isn't lying......when infact, not telling the whole truth is actually lying! Another post-modern principle that the self servers have created to serve themselves. It's called, NO CHARACTER, NO INTEGRITY and NO HONOR and NO GOOD!

How can anyone accuse this President of misdirection and misleading after the lies and deceit of the Bush years? Utterly amazing!!

Jimbo - awesome video.

Jimbofish: I watched the video and it scares me how little these people know. That video speaks volumes as to how we got to 'Death Squads' and 'Killing Grandma'. I give it 5 stars!

jimbo: It’s news to me that the US government is providing free health care to every citizen of Iraq and Afghanistan. I don’t suppose you can cite a valid reference on that? Or did you read an article about some special forces guys providing immunizations, or emergency dental work, or first aid, to some locals in their area?
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sarah: Both the left and right have their loonies. The biggest difference seems to be, the left likes to include them in their administration. Is Williams advocating assassinations? If so, you can be sure the Secret Service will have him locked up post haste. If not, where in the world are you coming up with your assumption?

This video demonstrates just how little the T-baggers actually know what they're protesting about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq...

Furthermore, can any of you right wing cons explain to us why the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan get free health care at the expense of the US taxpayers and why you are so against the citizens from your own country being denied health care?

darwin shows up again to critique a conservative op ed, and condemn with emotional vitriol without validly refuting a word the man said. And just to show how sadly lacking he is in intelligence, he resorts to calling the author names (“Krauthead”?).
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Try actually reading the piece above – go ahead and move your lips – and then tell us exactly how Krauthammer is wrong.

Lies, deceptions, half truths what ever you wish to call them..we see the greater truth and are standing up.
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DizzyGirl, you're quoting yourself, pretending to quote me? Just another delusional Conservative.

Dick and Bush lie and when someone pointed out their lies they attacked them (Joe and Valerie Plame) like the brown shirts they and the Conservatives are.

No, vatoloco, not smarter than everyone just Conservatives. Just watch the video of tea baggers confronting Franken. He explains the medicare costs to this guy and then the guy asks him about it five minutes later. Conservatives with short attention spans and an inability to listen to anyone but themselves and their own ignorance, how surprising.

I think most politcians "merely elides, gliding from one dubious assertion to another." What's new?

I disagree w/Krauthammer. Obama lies. It's either that, or Obama hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. Which one is worse? Either way, this presidency is a complete and unmitigated disaster.

Too bad Krauthead has no intelligence to insult in the first place.

The only people drinking cool-aid are Conservatives who have suddenly found skepticism after 8 years of an imbecile president and two wars. If Bush was still in office, they would be repeating how great everything is, deficits don't matter and that the liberal media were just trying to bring their president down. But now that Bush isn't in office, they want to blame everyone else, shirk their responsibilities, and try to convince themselves they are really the majority.

Exactly Pharm--Wouldn't it be a much more responsible move to concentrate on fixing Medicare first? Rid Medicare of the waste and fraud and prove to the people that it can be made viable before moving forward with anything. Is that too much to ask? Apparently yes in Obama's case........

I don't drink the kool-aid. ;)

What facts, this is an opinion piece. As for the half trillion in waste, fraud and abuse, Rep. Ryan cites the same figure in his health plan.

very nice piece in Washington Times today - he really will say whatever & change the facts later to match what he said.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep...

Another well written piece that will lack any refutes that are nearly as well written or facts that counter.

And you people continue to drink his cool aid. Becareful for what you wish for. Are we still at war? You knew it for sure when G.W. was President....

Brilliant!