& to be fair...
Professionals, stop bowing to the wishes of a few. Give them the option, our way or go figure out your own way.
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I am all for working together but this is just craziness.

Last thing...
If you don't like what is being offered by the public schools send you kids to private schools.
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The public schools and the PROFESSIONALS that run them (not the school board) also should have the freedom to make decision based upon their expertise and education.
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If these parents are such experts on what makes a quality education then home school your child.
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This silent minority running our schools (Obama speech, PART TIME Chinese language & CULTURE) class is ruining our schools.
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Let the professionals do their jobs.

localboy
Dare I ask...
What freedoms are being taken away from you?
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The freedom/right of a private phone call?
The freedom/right of due process?
The freedom/right to not be tortured?
The freedom/right to select a government option for health insurance?
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What freedoms are you talking about?

I suppose if I didn't have anything worth saying, I'd just give up too.

bubs - I think I have established my opinion.

Hopefully, we can agree that language/communication skills are an important part of primary education and an important business skill. Foreign languages not only an understanding of English, but give children the potential to effectively communicate with more people. You focus on the fact that children are learning Chinese, rather than focusing on the fact that learning Chinese can and likely will improve their English. Would you care to address the ancillary benefits of learning a foreign language or is it simply easier to ignore?
Sure, mathematics is integral to primary education and a basic understanding of it is often useful. Using the lattice method rather than long multiplication is in no way integral.
You focus too much on the mathematics example though. As a child, I was "forced" to take art, music, and physical education. I was "forced" to learn how to build things with clay, rather than focusing on drawing skills at one point. I was "forced" to learn how to play the recorder rather than learning basic hand percussion. I was "forced" to play dodge ball rather than learning the fundamentals of golf and racquetball. All of the "choices" that I was denied would be much more useful in the business world (at least for me).
Beyond all that, being able to figure out how to communicate with other people is an important life skill. Learning a foreign language as a child will help teach children the skills they need to learn other foreign languages down the road, should they choose to. Janesville students are not only learning Chinese, they are learning HOW to learn Chinese. Whether the foreign language down the road is Spanish, Farsi Russian, ASL, or Visual Basic, the ability to learn, understand and use vocabulary and syntax from another language is an important skill to teach our youth.

bubs - American is a land of freedom and choice(slowly disappearing under the current administration). You are as successful as you choose to be. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are fundamentals that are necessary to everyday survival not only in business, but basic life. Learning Chinese is not. If your choice in life is to expand on the mechanics of arithmetic, you have that choice later in school. If you choose to enter in a profession that REQUIRES the need for Chinese, have the choice to take it, but don't force it. If we force supplemental education on everyone, then we all end up the same. We take away the drive to succeed on our own. If you offer the tools to succeed, and you don't use them, you have no one other to blame then yourself. But don't force people to do it. Knowledge of foreign languages is not Communistic, being forced to learn them and which ones, smacks of Communism. Being forced to be successful and the same as your neighbor also smacks of Communism.

Here is my problem with this entire situation... THE SCHOOL BOARD
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It took a parent to ask the tough questions to get the school board to ask the tough questions AFTER THEY VOTED.
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Then they had the nerve to blame someone else for THEIR UNEDUCATED VOTE.
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This school board is full of a bunch of bullies that don't know how to say, "my bad. Sorry."
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Great program, hope it is still around for my kids. Any second language is a bonus.
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Last question, when has any part of elementary school been optional? This isn't middle or high school with electives...Every student takes, English, Math, Social Studies, Science, Phy-Ed, Music, and Art. At 2 schools students also spend a minimal amount of time in a Chinese language/culture class. It is amazing at what our elementary schools/teachers offer.

You're doing a great job of being evasive, but not of having an honest debate. What about a foreign language necessitates choice where there is none in other subjects?
Parents can't choose whether or not to have their elementary students learn mathematics. They can't choose to have their elementary school students learn one method or subject of mathematics but not another. Yet, you and others (some but not all of whom are obviously xenophobic and/or racist) haven't stepped up to say why we can "force" mathematics, let alone lattice multiplication, on children but we can't "force" Chinese or any other language on them.
I have not tagged all those who oppose this program as xenophobic or racist. Quite the opposite, I have given people the benefit of the doubt that they have legitimate opposition that isn't based on the logical and useless fact that "this is America."
You questioned the usefulness of my own knowledge of foreign language as if me not having a particular use for it would negate its usefulness. I explained many ways in which is has been useful. You may not perceive the benefits that I do, or you may not believe that others would not get the same benefits out of, but trying to paint me as "fancy" rather engaging me certainly isn't going to make me understand your point of view.
I did attack your (apparent) attempt to paint knowledge of foreign languages as Communist and by extension a bad thing as ignorant and xenophobic because it such a belief would be seem to me to based on the fear of others (xenophobia) and ignorance (of knowledge and Communism). If you were attempting to paint such a picture, then I do not apologize. If were not, then I do, but I would point out that I asked if that was your intention, not stated. You had the opportunity to clarify.
Believing that we should never learn any foreign languages is a small-minded belief that would hamper our ability to protect our nation and operate in the global market were it a universal American belief. Again, the use of "small-minded" was related to the potential/apparent conflation with knowledge of foreign languages and Communism. I will gladly reassess your motives if you would clarify.

bubs - you and others have totally missed the debate subject. Most of us are not opposed to learning a foreign/2nd language. What we have a problem with is being "forced" to learn it, and of all languages, Chinese. However, anybody who opposes our opposition (which would be choice), tags us as close minded, racist, arrogant, xenophobic. Instead of supporting choice, you all want to do is sling fancy names. Real intelligent.

localboy,
Do we judge the usefulness/importance of knowledge based on whether or not a person on a comment board can name specific instances in which that knowledge has benefited them? I can't name a specific instance when knowing the capital of Oregon or how to spell giraffe has helped me in the business world, are geography and spelling therefore useless subjects that parents should be able to exempt their children from?
Speaking Spanish allowed me to earn an extra semester of college while in high school and landed me a pretty good job while I was in college. My first post-college boss listed my extracurricular activities and studying Russian in college as reasons for helping me stand out among other candidates.
As side benefits, studying Spanish for so many years improved my understanding of English verb tenses and parts of speech (specifically adjectives, nouns, and adverbs), especially once I got to advanced Spanish grammar courses in college. It's hard to use the pluscamperfecto tense if you don't understand past perfect in English. Studying Russian helped me better understand English cases, minor as though they are. Better understanding of English grammar, learned through studying English and foreign languages, helped me excel in high school and college and has made me a valuable proof-reader in my office.
In my Spanish and Russian classes, I practiced reading skills, public speaking, and listening skills.
Studying two foreign languages have made it much easier for me to understand how to pick up phrases in new foreign languages when I wanted to. Learning a foreign language, like anything, is a skill.
While I have been in many social/public and some business situations where speaking Spanish or a little Russian or knowing some basic ASL wasn't necessary but did get me extra respect, better service, or even just a smile from someone who appreciated that I had taken the time to learn a bit of their language.
Knowing English has come much more in handy, but that hardly makes my other language skills useless, nor negate the fact that knowing how to learn a foreign language is a useful skill in and of itself.

Bubs - how often has your extensive foreign language knowledge benefitted you? I worked for an international company for over 16 years, in which I traveled extensively. Never once did my close minded, racist, arrogant (what other names were we called?) self who only knew English, was at an disadvantage. Chinese is only good in China(certain parts), Japanese is only good in Japan, etc. English is known world wide, and it came in handy.

Danny Noonan: I gotta go to college.
Ty Webb: You don't have to go to college. This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.

Here are some sites to check out which languages are spoken most world-wide...

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7...

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/toptens/l...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Native...

localboy,
I speak Spanish pretty well (thanks to being "forced" to learn it as a child), I can speak basic Russian, and I know some extremely basic ASL, French, German, and Italian. I fail, however, to see your point.
Is your reference to "red glasses" an attempt to conflate knowledge of foreign languages with Communism? If so, then your xenophobic ignorance is of no use to any of us.
We should all be glad that other countries don't proclaim, "This is _____, not the US, we don't need to learn English!" We should also be glad that all those language analysts and interpreters in organizations such as the NSA and the military are not so small-minded.

I suspect that Moco is at least partially correct, some or even many of those who oppose Chinese being taught do so because of their own xenophobia or even racism.
Unfortunately, so far the only response from the other side is to tell Moco to shut up, not to express non-xenophobic, non-racist reasons why the teaching of a particular foreign language is held to such a different standard than the teaching of particular methods/sub-topics of other subjects.
Noname, your previous comments have, unfortunately, done nothing to dispel the concerns of some that there is a large xenophobic/racist component to the opposition to this program. A belief that immigrants to this country has nothing to do with teaching children a foreign language to receive all the benefits that come from learning one and is a belief that could be perceived as xenophobic/racist. A suspect that a majority of the students in this program already speak English fluently, so they have "learned English first" so I'm not quite sure how that relates either.

Bubs - how many foreign languages do you know? If you take off your red glasses, you will see what the issue is. This is America, not China.

....or is that some of you might be racist? No that couldn't be it, could it?????

Are the parents who are against Chinese being "forced" upon their children also against other subjects being forced upon their children despite legitimate alternatives?
Some schools teach lattice multiplication instead of long multiplication, Bayesian statistics instead of non-Bayesian, sailboat spelling instead of rote/memorization, the recorder rather than hand percussion, dissecting pigs instead of frogs, painting rather than computer graphics, etc. Why don't we see the same sort of outrage regarding these missing "choices" that we see when the subject taught is a foreign language?
Learning any foreign language as a child will benefit children and make it easier to learn subsequent languages. Purrmaid pointed out some of the great ways that learning a foreign language can reinforce the understanding of one' primary language. Learning a tonal language, such as Chinese, makes it much easier to learn a new tonal language down the road (the same goes for a language with cases, i.e. Russian, or languages with dental fricatives, i.e. English). Learning a foreign language often includes communicating with classmates, reading comprehension, and group-building activities.
With all of the benefits and all of the other "forced"subjects, I am genuinely interested to know what makes learning a foreign language, Chinese in particular, an issue.

Several times now between this and other articles on the same subject, I've seen posters claim that Chinese is the second most spoken language on the planet. I'd like to see stats to back up that claim, particularly showing the prevalence of the Chinese language OUTSIDE China itself. While truly neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things, I'm am curious about this part of the argument.

This is my final comment...

Kiowamohican does have a point. Knowing the actual Chinese language is not an absolute necessity for work with China in the real business or scientific world. Research indicates, also, that it takes some time to learn Chinese. If language ability, per se, is the ultimate goal, then a child should start learning this language early (i.e., in elementary school) in a total immersion program--not just a few hours per week.

Let's understand and discuss the REAL benefits and limitations of the current Chinese Language program. What is the cost benefit analysis for inclusion of this in the curriculum? Should we change this to a voluntary "total immersion" program? Can we offer continuous Chinese language coursework from elementary school through high school in the current economic climate? Please people, THINK!

I have been in the business world for years, and know many in international business, and sales...I will say it again, that I have NEVER heard one person tell me that knowing a foreign language was of any benefit. If you are negotiating a deal with a foreign client, they can give two rips if you know their language. Nor do you give two rips if they know yours. The language barrier is solved by technology and the internet in today's world. In the past it was via interpreters.
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I have nothing against learning a foreign language. I use to take all sorts of advanced math when I was in school. It was a lot of fun, but in reality of no practical use in "the real world". I had a girlfriend who knew 6 foreign languages. A very impressive feat, I must say. I asked her once if it ever had any real practical use?..She kind of laughed, and said "I can go to Disneyland, and know what most everyone is saying" HAHAHA.

For the truly intellectually curious--- Here's the article I mention in my previous comment. I suggest y'all read it to understand a bit more on this whole topic. I certainly found it enlightening!

http://www.aera.net/uploadedFiles/Journa...

I said it before and I'll say it again...

Let's just be REALISTIC about what this limited teaching of Chinese will offer our kids. A Chinese language and culture class is interesting and perhaps worth a try, but it is not a "be all and end all." If one really wants their child to master Chinese language they should enrole them in a Chinese total immersion school. Why doesn't the School District talk about this???

The American Educational Research Association (see "Research Points," Spring 2006, Volume 4, Issue 1) states:

WHAT SHOULD POLICYMAKERS DO?
FIRST, recognize that simply starting early does not guarantee that a language will be learned
SECOND, support age-appropriate foreign language teaching--a total immersion program for young children, moving toward a more explicit focus on structure for adolescents and adults.
THIRD, be realistic with students and parents about how much foreign language skill a few hours a week of instruction can generate, especially for preschool and elementary school learners. Such limited instruction will not lead to mastery, but it may build motivation and a "taste" for language learning.
FOURTH, recognize that for almost everyone, high proficiency in foreign language will develop outside the classroom, through conversation with native speakers made possible by the skills acquired in the classroom.

First off, elementary children can learn second languages more easily than older children and adults, so why not start early. Secondly, our country has a great need to learn to speak mandarin. In case you people who live in a closet haven't heard. We are in debt to China and that debt isn't going away anytime soon. You better learn to live with it.

What amazes me here are all those folks insisting that everyone needs to learn english and doing so with a post that is full of syntax and spelling errors. Oh the irony of it all. Perhaps everyone should take english again!

ladulce - don't turn this debate in to an argument of being "close minded". This is an argument of choice. To be "forced" to take a foreign language, and one that isn't even your choice or fit your personal educational plan, is not "ignorant". However, it is fitting our school administration chose Chinese to "force" on our children, because after all, that is what the Chinese do, it force choices on to their own people every day. It is called Communism......

They should be makeing sure some peaple learn english here frist

It's ridiculous to think that if you are in the "global economy" you need to know other languages. I know many business people who are in international sales, and deal with China, and countless other countries. None of them know any language other then English. They simply use the internet, and technology to translate the language barrier. One guy I know buys millions of $$$'s in Chinese products, and he speaks with them right over the Internet with a program that translates the language. It should also be pointed out that Chinese is NOT just a universal language there. They are many various dialects, and if you go from one part of the country to the next, it can be an entire different dialect.
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I don't have any problem with kids learning foreign language, and don't deny that it many help them out excel academically better. I just totally disagree that it will do you any real good in the "real world". Many of the teachers who tell you that have never spent one day in the "real world" of business, or the "global economy".

Well said LaDulce.

It just amazes me people feel learning a foreign language is somehow relinquishing control to that country or the Chinese should learn English "if they want to deal with us." That kind of arrogance will send Chinese companies to other countries for goods and we can kiss that income goodbye. Or they think a student must choose between math and a foreign language. Why can't the student learn both? Why would anyone want to limit the potential for increasing their child's intelligence?

Learning a second language enhances language skills like sentence structure, conjugating verbs, syntax....

Some question why Chinese (the objection reeks of racism) and not some other language? Chinese is the second most spoken language so it should have been obvious as to why it was chosen over other languages. China is also a MAJOR participant in the global economy. If we Americans want to play a significant role and grab a piece of that financial pie, wouldn't it behoove us to equip students with the necessary tools as soon as possible?

Kids soak up language like little sponges during the years from three to seven...nuances in tone, inflections, etc. It ebbs considerably after that. Waiting until it can be a high school elective is a big fat waste.

If you nay sayers want to make sure your little nipper has limited opportunities, so be it, but for god's sake stop holding back other kids from striving for success.

I believe that learning a second, third, or fourth language is beneficial in todays world, however to make it mandatory in elementary school is simply ridiculous!! I remember learning Spanish in 2nd grade on up, taught by a high school student, it was fun, but not for everyone, once again I am soooo impressed by our school district.... NOT

How about we try it this way...

...have learning a language, in addition to English be mandatory, but let the students CHOOSE which one they would like to learn.

Why does the school feel the need push Chinese?

GW Bush is fluent in Spanish.
Oh wait, that's right, according to the left, he was a dunce. The biggest idiot we ever had in office. I guess "expanding your horizons" by learning a foreign language, only applies if you also subscribe to the progressive political beliefs that are taught along with it, HAHA.

ladulce: I agree with you 100 percent.

Why not learn the language of your neighbor? Forcing Chinese on kids is too hot a topic to even consider.

That is such a closed minded response. The benefits of learning a second language extend to other areas of learning, as well. Statistically, children that have been exposed to more than one language score better in ALL academic areas. Also, this is a global economy, and, to think that you are just going to deal with people in your hometown or native country is ignorant. Limiting your children from learning - anything- is unfair to them. My daughter attends Roosevelt, is fluent in 2 languages (English and Spanish) and is eager to continue Chinese. It is never a bad thing to know too much, but, knowing too little can be lethal.

Woodsman:
More correct is that we do not live in China YET. Lets be real though, how long will it really be before they own us? I think it's a good idea to offer these courses. Let kids learn the language of our new masters.

Chinese,we do "NOT" live in china,what the h--- are you people thinking,or lack of!!