"It's a fairly well known quote from CS Lewis' book"
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Isn't that kind of like an oxymoron?
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"Assuming BikerJoe had a classical education, he would know what I meant."
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Which means you assume that 'The Abolition of Man' is a required part of the curriculum of a "classical education."
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"The quote, in context...was appropriate for the spirit of extended adolescence that haunts these discussions."
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Lewis' book had nothing to do with maturity. It has to do with ingraining dogmatic value judgments (surprising for a Christian author, I know), despite their subjectivity, in children lest they not be able to relate to the majority of conformity later on. It claims that a collective and unchallenged perception of subjective reality is what makes us human, and to have a conflicting perception is to be a "man without a chest."
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"I am not equating femininity with a lack of honor."
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Your words: "We are watching a generation of men without chests. Rude feminized bullies who hold nothing sacred or honorable."
The men are "feminized" and thus lack honor. At the very least, femininity is used by you as an insult.
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"I am quite fond of women who are feminine, men who are feminine? - not so much."
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Because, as you've indicated, it's a detriment to be feminine. Women are supposed to be enjoyed as feminine, because they're just women (which is a detriment enough, right?); it's not their fault they'll never be a man with a chest. Like penis envy.
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"The rudeness was ratcheted up long before I got here, I watched closely, it's a tough neighborhood. Tooth, you've got to be tough if you're gonna run with this pack."
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So, in other words, you admit your hypocrisy? Also, it's not very Christian of you, not turning the other cheek and loving thy neighbor and all, is it? Baby Jesus is crying.
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"Finally, if there is someone here who ISN'T a hypocrite, I want to meet that someone."
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An odd assumption that no one here is not a hypocrite. What is this based on? I'd like to believe most people have the courage to act according to their convictions, as it isn't so hard to do. Yet you seem to have trouble with it, relying heavily on the concept that if others are doing it, you're somehow excused for following. Which nicely brings us back to 'The Abolition of Man.'

Digriz, 'Pop Goes the World' made it to the top 20. I don't know how, but it did. I get a rash between my shoulders just thinking of the song.

Dear inconvenienttooth,
I should have put quotation marks around "men without chests". It's a fairly well known quote from CS Lewis' book, The Abolition of Man. Assuming BikerJoe had a classical education, he would know what I meant.
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The quote, in context, is “...And all the time– such is the tragi-comedy of our situation – we continue to clamor for those very qualities we are rendering impossible....We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.”
I thought it was appropriate for the spirit of extended adolescence that haunts these discussions.
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I am not equating femininity with a lack of honor. You are conflating two very different points I was making. (Thanks DiGriz, that's a WONDERFUL word.)
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I love femininity, LOVE it... VERY much. I am quite fond of women who are feminine, men who are feminine? - not so much.
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Finally hon, take a look around. This is the Janesville Gazette comments page - 'rude' is the economy of this place. If this were Facebook then this would be Rudeville. The rudeness was ratcheted up long before I got here, I watched closely, it's a tough neighborhood. Tooth, you've got to be tough if you're gonna run with this pack.

Finally, if there is someone here who ISN'T a hypocrite, I want to meet that someone.

IT - feminine is bad according to the bible. You see IT it was eve that was tempted by the snake and then corrupted Adam, thats one reason why they should not be allowed to be preists. It was explained to me a few weeks back, women have their role to play, and its important, its just different than that of men, because the bible says it should be.

Men Without Chests was a one-hit wonder. After "Safety Dance," they had nothing else to offer, and never got on the charts again......
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Well I'll be....... I agree with you again, IT.

"We are watching a generation of men without chests."
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Men without chests? Wha-? And you call that a "feminized" bully? Shouldn't the "feminized" have... "chests"? Either way, talk about a "stereotyped straw man." Hypocrite.
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Furthermore, are you honestly equating feminimity as being incompatable with that which is "sacred" or "honorable"? It's detrimental, an insult, to be feminine? Your mother would be proud. Typical male Christian; you know too well the place of women, don't you? Who's the "rude" one, again?

Max- Our reactions are a direct result of being ignored by the majority. We have been painted into a corner so much that we have no other choice but to fight our way out. In the last 2 decades, reasoning and science have become a target of the religious right. The religious have forced themselves upon us by demanding that their propaganda be displayed from every public piece of land in the union. In the 80s you came out as the "Moral Majority" and began mixing politics with religion. This is what happens. We did not drag religion into politics, your side did. Well you can't have your cake and eat it too. Basic physics says that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. You have finally reaped what you have sowed and don't like it. I would be happy living my quiet atheist lifestyle but after the last 20 years, I feel that I have no choice. we will be silenced no longer. Every time you claim moral superiority WE WILL CALL YOU OUT and point out the hypocrisy.

PS. We believe that there are no gods so therefore we can't blaspheme. However, by taking the side of a god, YOU blaspheme another's god.

Max and Biker - is our attitude the only thing you want to refute on this site? Wait a sec - doesn't that make you the trolls?
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Biker what did you propose - some sort of in person debate?

I agree with RUSerious, and enjoy your posts, maxdetail.

PERFECT post, maxdetail. Every word. You took the words right out of the back of my mind where they waited to be put together in such a cohesive way. But your account was so apt that I read it several times, savoring your perfect description of their obsessive haranguing. Bravo!

BikerJoe, I miss the old atheists. They were smart. They followed the rules of debate and logic and it was a pleasure to cross swords with them.
Thanks to Dawkins, Harris and Hitchins these new atheists are just rude. They argue against stereotypes, build straw men (and then accuse others of building straw men) and tilt at windmills but they are rude first.
They are lunchroom bullies. They throw members of their own families under the bus to further their bravado.
No sense of honor, respect, courage of conviction, they are bullies.
They don't even need us to argue with. They set up their stereotyped straw men and then shoot them down while giggling to one another of how clever they are.
What's happened to the men BikerJoe? We are watching a generation of men without chests. Rude feminized bullies who hold nothing sacred or honorable. It is saddening.
I conclude that to continual to interact with them is to invite more of their blasphemy. I'd rather not be a party to that. They won't stop trolling the threads here, they can't.

LOL!! No doubt, you've ridden around with me and drank beer in my company, so it's not like I havn't already had the opportunity.

Well Griz... Anytime you see me and wanna give it a try..

"$11 seems pretty steep to watch a competition of amateurs."
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I agree. That's like 400% inflation if you compare it to seeing acts like Huey Lewis, U2, Graham Parker, etc., for $12 at Headliners in Madison back in early 80's.

BikerJoe: You wear a "kick me" sign on your back??? Why?

My Point is.. Your simply an Online Troll.. You Trash and bash Christians without any truth and a warped Reality which you make up as you go from behind the safety of your keyboard.. You have nothing to fear from me..I was simply trying to find out if you really believed in the Trash you talk enough to take it to the streets..I found out.. Thanks..

Not sure what your point is Bikerjoe? You comments about bravery make me wonder what, in your mind, would I need to be afraid of?

32 performers and 50 in the audience. Wow, seems like there was really no support for this, which is too bad. $11 seems pretty steep to watch a competition of amateurs.

Ahhh so your just an online Troll... I kinda figured so.. Sooo then the "Reality" you speak of.. Is simply Troll Reality..

Not really Bikerjoe - I realize what christians would do in person when confronted with reality. I like to keep a safe distance, allthough I am interested in interacting with Joejack next time he has an appearance.

"Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Alright. I'm goin down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.
Yeah,! I'm goin' down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.
Huh! And that ain't too cool."

Prounion.. always the 1st online to bash the Christians..
Are you as brave In real life? or Just an online troll...

the band.......THE BAND!!!

1 Samuel 18:25-27 (King James Version)

25And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies. But Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines.

26And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son in law: and the days were not expired.

27Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.