sorry but it is well documented that unions only protect the lazy worker and do not encourage people to go above and beyond, because they are locked into a pay raise schedule. I, along with many others, always hear people say, "it doesn't matter, the union will protect me."

What a bunch of crap, the unions were a good thing, but like most things too much of a good thing is no longer good. e.g. overeating food, too much alcohol, etc.

boobi1951 How much for that bridge? Does it only go over troubled waters? If so by reading your blogs it could be had for a nice price. Don't be bitter, be happy. You still have tomorrow.

Oh, yes, and this article forgot to mention (probably due to Sanford's report) that not only is production going to Mexico, order entry, art, and customer service are all going to India!!!!

Well said Meerkat! Yeah, its always the unions fault.....its amazing how truely ignorant the union bashers are. Its usually just jealousy cause they don't have a union job themselves.!

Vatoloco- Of course I have heard of free enterprise, but does that make it right? So you have no problem with the erosion of the middle class, while the CEOs and upper management just get richer and richer? Maybe your job should be outsourced next, then we will see if you still have the same opinion.

We should change the laws so that these companies cannot take our jobs overseas. If they do, hit in the pocketbook with huge taxes.
Make it so they will be paying more out of pocket if they do so.

Why is it, that no one ever seems to question a CEO's wages or someone from managment? When in reality the regular Plant employee is who is making an OK wage (not great) comes out looking like the bad one. When in reality is the one really making the company money. GM CEO for example! ANYONE? Believe it or not it is the blue collar that carries this economy, not the rich. In time when all the good paying jobs are gone so will be the end of this once great country's economy. Oh yeah! We are a service industry now.

vataloco: I don't agree with it at all. They are the ones who screwed up- give away this, give away that. Sending the sales reps to these big lavishing vacations all the time for the "meetings" for 4 days, which only consisted of about a day of training, nothing that couldn't have been done at the corporate office or via teleconferencing. The moto given to all employees by management was "give the customer whatever they want to compete with Bic". Guess what- Bic's still open and Sanford's not!

Tinkle down economics works great, as long as you are the one at the top doing the tinkling.

Hey big smurf-What did you think of the Sanford management running that plant?

"Big profits come in part from management exploiting cheap outsourced labor"

It's called the free enterprise system. Ever heard of it?

Its becoming harder and harder for businesses to thrive because the government keeps knocking them down with more regulations, bureaucracy, high union labor in some cases and taxes. Just think, you get taxed for personal income at the state and federal level. Plus, if you work for a company they get taxed not only on their profits but on their capital gains if they declare a dividend. Double taxation.

Companies are not social service agencies. Although Obama is re-writng the Constitution to reflect our nation being a welfare state.

yada: I couldn't agree more. The sad thing is there are more companies that are going to be laying off or closing completely and those poor people are going to be forced to pay as well. Not good! I bet the city council members that voted for these "luxuries" are not unemployed or on the verge of losing their homes. Also, the problem is becoming that the only jobs that people are holding in Janesville are the low-paying, that still don't keep a roof over their heads or the food on the table. I really hope Janesville turns the corner quick, but I don't see it happening. The only thing I can see happening is more people voluntarily leaving Janesville.

Aren't Reaganomics great?

"Care to explain why jobs go outside of the U.S.?"

Big business usually comes from big profits. Big profits come in part from management exploiting cheap outsourced labor. All the while they could still make a profit by using American labor, albeit a smaller one, but choose not to because that would cut into their GREEDY profit margins, and decrease their GREEDY bonuses! All they care about is themselves, and to hell with the workers! CORPORATE GREED!

"IT CREATES JOBS OUTSIDE THE USA!"

Care to explain why jobs go outside of the U.S.?

joker"
Nov 12, 2009 at 3:21 p.m.
Suggest removal I would suggest people use spell and grammar check before they post. It is rather annoying to read and reflects poorly on yourself and Janesville."

shut up and go back to your hole

WELL WRITTEN MACDADDY! You are so correct - nobody does care about the low paying jobs until the economy spirals downward. Also, just wondering if the building of the ICE ARENA will help our economy. My main concern is for the workers out of work like Sanford (and including me)that will now be asked to pay more on our taxes. Many of us are trying to pay bills, mortgage, etc and now face an increased tax bill for a luxury(THE ICE ARENA) that is not needed at this time.

obviously though if Clinton had vetoed NAFTA, even with a majority of congress being Republican there would not have been a 75% majority to pass it regardless of the veto, therefore Clinton could have all but ended this.

The real problem is this...When the economy is going great no one cares about sending low paying jobs out of the country that no one wants to do, but when unemployment starts to rise then people realize, hey wait, i would do that work, but by then it is too late. The execs realized they can improve their profit margins and look better to the stock holders by paying less for labor. Ironically many of the "displaced" workers are stock holders, so they watch their stocks make more money as they sit home without a job. "May the best car win!"

Zoom wrote- "Free trade is a traditional Republican goal, because it supports big business."

Vatoloco replied- "Businesses that create profit equal jobs. What is it that you don't understand Zoom?"

I agree Vatoloco, big business does create jobs. IT CREATES JOBS OUTSIDE THE USA! What part of that don't you understand? Keep drinkin the Republican kool-aid.

"To those 140 loosing employment, I give my condolences, and best wishes" Not me, I am sure some of thsoe in the union do deserve to lose their jobs becasue they certainly do not appreciate what they have. Many in Janesville are that way.

Sorry, but I worked in the office and was not part of a union. I don't think we deserved to lose our jobs at all. Yes, unions have their pros and cons, and some people in unions do get greedy, but not all. I truly feel bad for all of the Sanford employees, both past and present, that have been affected by this. However, it is really the "administration" that did all the union negotiations for Sanford, yet they get to keep their jobs.

I would suggest people use spell and grammar check before they post. It is rather annoying to read and reflects poorly on yourself and Janesville.

I love how we get these wonderful cheery stories every week or so. Enough. I know another big sob story will be run about GM employees running out of their 2 years of severance pay. Lots of people are out of work and lots of people are suffering. We know that. Please move on to something else!

No one has died here people. These folks who are beng laid off will probably have an awesome opportunity to rebound for the following reasons:

1. They will probably get severance pay.
2. They will most likely be eligible under the Trade Adjustment Act to go back to school to learn or train for a new career while getting unemployment compensation until they finish school or training.

My suggestions for all of you Sanford folks:

1. Don't panic; plenty of time to plan what you are going to do, there are many folks out there who find themselves in a tougher situation than you. It's not the end of the world. Also, take this opporunity to reflect on doing something than you might have thought of doing for years. Becoming a nurse, teacher, driver, law enforcement etc...
2. Network, network ,network. Start leaning on people you know who might be able to get you in to work in another company. Most job opportunities are not advertised so people who know people might be able to help you out. Especially if you are an awesome worker. That's why it's important to have good working relationships. If you constantly complain about work, management, and other people your chances become slimmer on landing a job. Lean on your good references, people who know your work ethic will be glad to have you work at their companies.
3. Don't fall into a swirling tornado of despair. Have a good outlook on things.

We can argue about whose fault it is, or we can become part of the solution. The solution is to be the best, so people will come to us and want to buy our products. The solution is to create the new products that the world needs.

While I wouldn't totally disagree with you, vatoloco, I don't think anyone deserves to lose their job. But I do agree that many union employees don't seem to appreciate what they have.

Besides, it says that 71 of 140 are either represented by either the United Steelworkers Local 1533 or International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 1266. I don't believe the rest are part of a union.

Nope......As always lost city, you're the only one riding that train:)

Any one else hear the rumor that GM might come back? Heard Arlington can't meet demand.

"To those 140 loosing employment, I give my condolences, and best wishes"

Not me, I am sure some of thsoe in the union do deserve to lose their jobs becasue they certainly do not appreciate what they have. Many in Janesville are that way.

At this rate i maybe jumping the boarder to mexico to find a job

We are not looking at the right villians, we are too busy argueing about being rite. All of Our erogance is to blame. Our indulgences, our abuse of freedoms, our refusal to practice that which we slam others for in here. All this is why we are facing that which we are; you title it as you will anyway.
Stop bashing eachother and attempt un-sarcastically to teach one another, refrain from negativity and positive things could develope. If you want to open the door to a future of prosparety in this area, you all need to re-educate yourselves on the ways of progression out of the at present dark ages. Stop your bickering over history, and move forward with the corrective steps/options to ammend the current situation. THAT would be where thee Ego-ist would lead the way. That would be when, if you do actually know better, teach it in a harmonious way. Use your smartzzz for the good of all.
To those 140 loosing employment, I give my condolences, and best wishes. It is a devistating thing to anyone that looses a job. The multiple questions that must be faced. The what are we going to do now issues. The children involved. Many of the same people in here took great pride in the downfalls begining, when their deepest selfish wishes of a demise were met; only because it was not them. I again do wish the best for those whom are now going to physically, emotionally, and financially suffer. Keep your chin up, and choose the correct Villians to blame for this tragedy.

Rarely is it enjoible to watch so many argue so ineptly. One or another in here are always tring to be 'The One' know it all.
Mr 'I didn't have ___relations with that woman,' signed CAFTA. That is the NON-Overseas (Canada/Mexico) open trade.
As far as the political bantor and mud-slinging goes; it is pointless to aim your disdane at any, all are guilty.
The real point is Real Jobs are being lost, Now. A year after the wow of the market-decline began I said I would come back and relate what I said then; (see archives). Dominoe-Effect. When a cities major industrial complex goes away, and all prospective researchers that look to fill the gap see, hear, and read what the community as a whole felt about it, as the comedy-group in here did? They abandon their research and look else where. As long as they see a community out to get eachother over trivial things, they will not bring their business here. When this community can look past their own desire to disenfranchise the next knucklhead that they share life with, and when the community gets over the need to always fight over the stupidest issues because of their jealouisies, and covetedness. Until the easy and simple statement of 'Can't we all just get along?' comes into play? This area will continue to loose good paying jobs. No big business will want to establish a base here, let alone stay here.
We shall see some instant results of relocations in this next census report, and those will be based upon false figures only because the decline is only at the 4th dominoe at present. This also will effect federal funding for our area and tax incentives to new business'. It is going to get worse, way worse, before it gets at all better. Economics, not only politics. The true fear is allowing the out-side countries to buy up and invest in American corperations. They have already learned how-to-make a change on the market(s) to their advantages if THEY stick together on their prospective process.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ten-most-t...

"The list is based on several factors, including the loss of state revenue, size of budget gaps, unemployment and foreclosure rates, poor money management practices, and state laws governing the passage of budgets.

These troubles have forced these states -- as well as many others -- to raise taxes, lay off or furlough state workers and slash services. These actions can slow down the nation's recovery, especially since these 10 states account for one-third of the country's population and economic output.

"Free trade is a traditional Republican goal, because it supports big business"

Businesses that create profit equal jobs. What is it that you don't understand Zoom?

On the other hand, you have big labor unions, big state, and federal taxes that make it harder for companies to remain competitive.

Macdaddy, more Republicans than Democrats voted for NAFTA. Republicans had the majority in the House and Senate when it passed. If you think NAFTA is a Democratic creation, just because Clinton didn't veto it, you need to read a little more history. G.H.W. Bush championed the poilicy initially.

Free trade is a traditional Republican goal, because it supports big business. Ross Perot was right when he talked about the giant "sucking sound" of jobs leaving the U.S. because of NAFTA.

"You're aware that the stock market improves more under Democratic Presidents than under Republican Presidents, right? You seem such an expert."

But a rising stock market is evil. I know because in the summer of 2008 when the Dow was over 14,000 and unemployment topped 5% Democratic leaders held press conferences to tell us that the rich were getting richer while way too many Americans were out of work.

localboy, do tell. You're aware that the stock market improves more under Democratic Presidents than under Republican Presidents, right? You seem such an expert.

Forget the politics and other reasons why this is happening. It's happening regardless, and that's sad news no matter how you look at it.

wiscchick: You may be right that Clinton didn't start the process, but by signing it into law, put his stamp on it. Obviously NAFTA was a bi-partisan effort. But if Democrats wanted it stopped they had their chance and Clinton did not Veto it, therefore i find it ironic that so many union people vote democratic, but have bumper stickers that say "they got NAFTA, we got the shafta"

That is why I want to have "bash a Kia day" Kia's are made in south Korea.

I agree, Don_Diego and bobb1951. Kiowamohican, you're very correct - free trade, in it's purest form, IS a good thing. It means a wider choice of product at competetive prices and it also allows American products to have a larger market. The real kicker of the 1980s NAFTA, however, was a little component of the plan which allowed American companies to cut and run for higher profits out of the country if cheaper labor could be had elsewhere. It is the pinnacle of "less goverment/higher profit". Jobs leaving the country is not liberal or "socialist" (not my word), but is conservative or "capitalist". Don't blame this one on the Democrats.

I say let the market do what it wants. If the company can make more money going over seas then let it! After all, if you want to defend capitalism against the evils of socialism then you have to accept the bad with the good. If you want government to get out of the way then this is what happens. You can logically argue that government is the problem then malign it for allowing businesses to do whatever is in their best interests. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As Besly Products was sold to YG-1 (Korean)Machines,jobs went over seas(along with most trusted name in industry)Then Regal beloit sold their cutting division to SAME YG-1 Group,Guess what.machines,jobs over to Korea also?These corporations could care less about USA workers,there only thoughts are PROFIT for themselves,stock holders.If anyone believes this trend will not continue ,please contact me,I have a"bridge to Nowhere" for sale.??

The problem with boycotting foreign products is it gets harder by the day to find American made products.

cookiedough said; "wow, another WI business moving overseas to Mexico or Canada or wherever."

Thanks for making me laugh so early in the morning. If you believe Mexico and Canada are "over seas" well, maybe I am starting to see why so many companies are looking for workers outside of the U.S.

wischick, jvlean - keep digging in to history. You need to go back to when this started (the exit of good paying jobs) and see collectively who the fathers of destruction of american business were.

NAFTA, and free trade in general, are a great things. It was one of the better things Clinton campaigned for, and signed into law. Free trade is a great thing; as it opens up US products to a world market. If it wasn't for free trade, I'd hate to see the shape our economy would be in right now. As the only thing keeping it having some pulse is the explosion in US products over seas, in developing countries.

wiscchick, it is hilarious how soon they forget. The Democrats voted 28-27 against NAFTA; the Republicans voted 34-10 for NAFTA.
http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm...
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And since when are business colleges "liberal"? I've worked in the Fortune 500 much of my career and 4 out of 5 MBAs vote straight GOP.
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Needless to say, there is only one President who earned an MBA. God willing, there won't be another anytime soon. Guess which party he was from? Sorry, Charlie. You can't pin this on "liberals", who are typically protectionists, not free-traders. Boy, back in the 1980s, it was the Democrats who were told we were "holding back" industry by trying to retain American jobs. Note how proud the Heritage Foundation is of Ronald Reagan's "vision" for NAFTA:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/tradean...
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So try your laughable distortions of history someplace else. And maybe you can have a beer and think about which party has actually been working to protect your damn jobs.

Ummmmm.......NAFTA was a George H.W. Bush project only signed by Clinton due to change in administration. History, anyone?

I would suggest that we seriously start boycoting foreign made espescially mexican made products why dont more people stand up cant you see that the good ole USA is being sold to the cheapest labor filled country. And yes the mexicans deserve to work but not at our cost but if thats your opinion move there.

This is what they are teaching at your local liberal business colleges. Don't settle for 5% profit when you can move it out of the country for 25% profit. It started with Kennedy and the garment industry, and the crown jewel was Clinton and NAFTA.

Hey “cookiedough” your prejudice is showing; "Mexicans" have a right to make a living too. Please stop maligning that ethnic group. Get rid of the DemocRATS (starting with Doyle), enact a right to work law (ending mandatory unionism) and perhaps business' will move to back our state.

The capitalists built the business up from nothing and had a right to sell their enterprise.

my mom in law is a worker here. This stinks but she stays positive.

wow, another WI business moving overseas to Mexico or Canada or wherever. Doesn't matter, why not ask the workers for a pay freeze instead of shipping jobs to Mexico for 1 buck an hour. Where I work is the same fricking thing. Every year, they hire 3 bus loads full of migrant Mexican workers who are not US citizens and do not speak English and are glad to make minimum wage or even lower. Makes me sick to my stomach.

Parker family was more interested in Republican politics than running the business, the capitalists took over the corp, sucked it dry and left.

Thank you Gov Doyle and the DemocRAT legislature. Keep on chasing business out of our state. The Obami won't be happy until all the evil capitalists are shut down.