WI DPI reports social studies here usually has the highest achievment scores

sluggo – I did not compare a teacher to a reporter. I compared the salary of a profession requiring a bachelor’s degree to the salary of another profession requiring a bachelor’s degree. The question of who I would rather have taught my child math is an easy one to answer - anyone, regardless of occupation, who has the patience, understanding and the communication skills to take complex equations and simplify them into something that is easily understood and remembered. Wanting anything less than that would be a disservice not only to my child, but other students as well. If you are a teacher it is unfortunate that you do not recognize that. It has been my experience that some of the best “teachers” of math are people not in the teaching profession. I am, however, surprised that you chose math for your analogy. Usually statistics show that math and social studies are the two subjects that students in this school district seem to have the most trouble with.

Don't forget the paid vacations and holidays - that probably brings the total even closer to 190. Someone I know once figured out that GM workers (when there was some) actually worked less days per year than teachers.

Hey sluggo,

As a reporter, I resent that comment ;)
I let the world know about who is teaching your son math so they can teach more children like your own. What is more important, that they can teach a math concept to a few students?

...or teach many students how to be inspired by math?

Oh and hey,
I was a garbage man last summer for Janesville. It is funny that you brought that up. They may not pull people over for speeding, but they do slow down traffic a lot with the trucks. ;)

Why should teachers not organize? Are you just anti union? Unions have played an important role in the history of our country. Why can you not be a "professional" and organize to protect workers? Are unions perfect? No, but they do serve a purpose and there is no reason why you cannot be a professional and organize.

kinsohn, I think legislation governing their civil liberties in terms of their job actions and salary restrictions dictates that they must be organized so they do not lose more!

It actually does take quite a lot to become a teacher. Usually, do to degree requirements and a year of non-paid internship, it is a five year exploit. All teachers undergo background checks upon hiring and are evaluated for the several years before they are considered permanent. Legislation is actually making it less desireable to become a teacher because of all the "hoops" teachers have to jump through. Couple that with public sentiment like posted here (irrespective of the wage) and it is very unlikely we will draw quality college graduates into this profession for much longer.

I'll reiterate my first point: if teachers want to be treated and paid like professionals, they should not organize themselves like meatpackers.

Justsome1there: really? you compaired a reporter to a teacher? Thats like comparing a police officer to a garbage man. I have never seen a reporter teach my son math just as I have never seen a garbage man pull someone over for speeding.

The bottom line is that teachers spend more hours with your kid per day than you do. I for one would like an intelligent, content and well paid person in that position. I feel the same about police officers. If we offered both of them a better pay package we could also demand a better quality person. They both should be required to undergo psychiatric evaluation on a yearly basis along with classes in diversity. Continuing education in each of their fields and performance evaluations semi-annually. Unfortunately, it doesn't take much to become a teacher or a police officer but putting stringent requirements on these jobs might weed out some of the less than "dedicated".

e-town: Time for remedial math. Most work 300 days per year? Not quite. 52 weeks per year times 5 days per week is 260 days. Subtract 3 weeks vacation and you are down to 245. Still more than the 190 for teachers, but not 300.

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A more apt comparison might be the many professionals who work 4-10's per week. Now we have 196 days for those folks. Would you advocate paying those professionals less based on days worked? Never! Why? Because they put in their "hours" in fewer days. ....and you have the same with teachers.

WisconsinMom...Where is the hate? Taxpayers have every right to critique where and how public money is spent; this includes public school teachers and administration. Kudos to your brother for finding something he would rather do and get paid well for it. To compare his salary to yours based on a degree is a nonsensical approach. There are many people in this country who make millions with no degree…is that wrong? Those that decided to become teachers did so knowing upfront what the pay and requirements (degree) are/were. To continue this banter assuming a correlation exists between wages and degree is a false premise.

I cannot believe the hate being spewed here..
I am a teacher with a master's degree, and my brother is a buyer for a tool company, also with a master's degree. We both graduated within 1 year of each other.. Guess who has the better salary? My brother is pulling a 6 figure income, has 4+ wks of vacation, pays very little for his health insurance, has ALL of his continuing ed paid for..and NO ONE wants to QEO him!

Also everyone comparing teachers salaries to other salaries in other areas of work is like comparing apples to oranges.

Justsome1here's facts are nationally not locally, they are definately not Janesville's salary range. The top of the pay scale here is no where near the top 10% that he/she has stated.

I and all of my siblings have at least a bachelor's degree. The one who is a teacher has had the same job for the longest amount of time and makes at minimum one-fourth of what the rest of us do. He puts in way more hours than any of the rest of us who are making six figures plus! Those of us in the private sector are way ahead of him financially!

Median annual earnings of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $43,580 to $48,690 in May 2006; the lowest 10 percent earned $28,590 to $33,070; the top 10 percent earned $67,490 to $76,100. Median earnings for preschool teachers were $22,680. According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor’s degree earned an average of $31,753 in the 2004–05 school year. The estimated average salary of all public elementary and secondary school teachers in the 2004–05 school year was $47,602.
.
Salaries for news analysts, reporters, and correspondents vary widely. Median annual earnings of reporters and correspondents were $33,470 in May 2006. The middle 50 percent earned between $24,370 and $51,700. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $19,180, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $73,880. Median annual earnings of reporters and correspondents were $31,690 in newspaper, periodical, book, and directory publishing, and $38,050 in radio and television broadcasting.
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This illustrates that there are careers in the private sector requiring a bachelor's degree that actually get paid less or are equal to a teaching career.
.
www.bls.gov/

You're right, it's 180 days. 210 for some administrators - I went 30 the wrong way. All my other points stand.

Pointing out what's in teacher contracts is not a practice in "hating." Jeesh!

the average pay for a teacher in janesville is 40,877 . thats actually pretty good pay for working 190 days a year. considering the rest of us are working 300 days a year to make that

Webuser's point, if I may, is that all salaried professionals put in extra hours, and I will gladly concede that point. Since it doesn't matter how many hours and days you are scheduled to work, why do you even run the calculation for teachers and not other professionals? Shouldn't they just get paid like all other salaried professionals? You can't have it both ways.

webuser: are you a teacher? Teachers usually put in 9 hour days at least at the actual school building, then spend many nights and weekends grading papers, preparing lessons, attending multiple extra activities at night in which they are not compensated for, write letters of recommendation, serve on committees....the list goes on and on. Teachers should not be wealthy but a decent starting salary would help.

purrmaid,
Teachers, salemen, bankers, retail buyers, clergy and all other professionals put in more than the 40 hours that is alotted in a work week. Most in the form of meetings, research and tending to those who need their services. It isn't unusual to see that in a professional position. That is why these people receive salary pay as opposed to hourly pay.

If you are comparing teachers to other professionals you need to keep in mind that teachers still have less contracted work hours than other professional and yet for the most part they still receive the same yearly pay.

Webuser - Teachers invest more than the standard eight hour work day. Additional hours are spent in preparing lessons plans, correcting assignments, discussions with parents, researching class materials....

To those who say, "If the pay is too low, look elsewhere," you are missing the point. Think of your favorite teacher. What made them your favorite? Did they just show up, give a monotone recitation, and then leave? Or did they bring an enthusiastic passion for the subject being taught. Did they light a fire in you to learn and retain the information? THAT ability to inspire learning in America's children should not be turned away, but should be rewarded with better pay than what they are receiving now. Educating our children is not an area where "cheap" works. Trying to make the most of outdated resources or no resources, lack of funding for materials, and worst of all, class sizes over 25 all have a very negative impact.

For the record, some real data. I have a friend who left GM to become a teacher, was working full time while taking full course load. He took a 50 percent paycut to move to that profession, spent another 20 thousand or so on more education and a master's degree, and I bet he still doesn't make 45k or 75% of his gm salary 7 or 8 years later. I'm not intentionally bringing gm into this, only letting you in for a glimpse of real pay. You know what else? He love what he does, works extra jobs to pay student loans, and never complains about what anyone else makes. And as far as I know, never gets involved in negotiating any of your contracts.

This might be too simplistic but I'm gonna do it anyway...

Students must attend 180 days of school per year, so lets give the teacher 190 days of work for conferences, etc.
190/8 hours per day = 1520 hours per year of contracted work time.

On a beginning salary of say $33,000 and divide that by the 1520 hours per year you get an hourly wage of $21.71 per hour. A nice starting salary for anyone with a 4 or 5 year degree.

As for extra time put into work.... most professionals put in over 40 hours per week and do not receive compensation.

theone and johndoe: My main problem with teacher pay is for new teachers. Yes, veteran teachers who have earned their masters degree plus have extra credits can make decent money. My problem is starting out a new teacher at or below $30,000 which does happen in many surrounding districts. Don't get me wrong, in this economy that looks pretty good right about now and anyone with a job should be thrilled. But for an occupation that requires at least 4 if not 5 years of school, and the continual need to take gradutate classes to stay licensed (for most people this adds up to hefty student loan debt), that is not enough to attract the top quality teachers we hope our children have.

Supermom: You are so right! In the past several years that my children have attended janesville schools I have had the chance to get to know quite a number of teachers in this city, And I have found some teachers to be worth more than their pay because they go the extra mile but then I've found some that aren't worth the time of day and should not even be employed with our tax dollars.

Gee, here we go...First gm haters, now teacher haters. I love how people love to place the blame on the "haters". Hmmmm reminds me of high school.......

WOW! I can't believe there are so many teacher haters in Janesville! It seems that a lot of people miss the point. Do we place a salary cap on Law Enforcement, Fire and Rescue officers? Do we care that they are paid more than teachers, AND are guaranteed a "cost of living" raise every year? Not to mention "Rolls Royce" benefits. This includes the Correctional Officers at our Rock County Jail. Most of these professions do not require a 4 year degree. HMMMMM. . . Less education = more pay? Let's put a cap on their wages, and spend money to educate our youth so we don't waste tax dollars on feeding them 3 squares a day in a jail. Evolution should be the ultimate goal of humanity. . . You don't want to pay to educate our kids and help them become good tax paying citizens-but you WILL pay when they end up in the criminal justice system. (A minority of the population in Janesville, to be sure.)Wake-up Janesville and aspire to be better than then what we are. With GM closing, it seems that most on this blog acquisce so easily to defeat. Stop pointing fingers at those who can only help the situation. "Fault always lies in the same place; with him weak enough to lay blame."

In 2005, the average teacher salary was about 44,000. You're telling me that's not enough pay. I have no problem with increasing the pay of a teacher that deserves it, but to give every teacher a raise no matter what they're performance is.....that's what I have a problem with.

Supermom - Let's lay it out this way. Say a teacher earns $36000. They can take that in 10 payments (September - June) of $3600 each, or in 12 payments of $3000 each. If they take pay over the summer, they get smaller checks throughout the year. They are essentially "laid off" for July and August every year - and are not paid for their time (even though many put in a lot of hours). They are legally prohibited from receiving unemployment during that time, so they have little choice but to find other jobs, in many cases. The fact that they are still receiving checks is due more to good planning between the teacher and the districts that lessens the impact of the annual layoff.

skinnypuppy, what should teacher pay be based on then, what other states pay? As taxpayers (providers and consumers of government resources), do we not have the right to pay what the local tax base determines for a job? There are many government (local/state/federal) positions that could attract many more people if the positions paid more; and in some cases more qualified.

Teachers I know that work during the summer, despite pay being distributued over the summer months, usually bank that summer job money and use it throughout the summer and rest of the year to supplement monthly/weekly expenditures.

Also, for several people saying teachers knew how little they'd make when they went into it...to some degree, sure, but my good friend who went into teaching in the late 1980s chose to teach, and teach in WI, because teacher pay in this state was ranked 5th in the nation. WI now ranks around the middle (23 or 25) in terms of teacher pay across the nation. I doubt this person expected WI teacher pay to drop. While this teacher could move, as everyone has the right to do (including those who are dissatisfied with Janesville and WI taxes as well as the education here), due to some of the same reasons the rest of you don't pick up and leave, that teacher chooses to stay here. :)

So technically a teacher is paid during the summer. Why do some teachers HAVE to get a summer job. I work 12 months a year and I make a lot less than a teacher. Maybe a teacher should get a raise based on performance. Just throwing out some ideas....

"RETIREDAIRFORCE, You knew what the pay was going into the airforce. Are you telling me you never got a "cost of living raise"? No one can predict what the cost of living will be 10 or 15 years from the day they start a job."
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Did I say that? I knew what the pay was before I agreed to the job, I also knew what it would take to increase my wage; if I decided too. For those that decided the wage wasn't enough, they got out and did something else.

Supermom - teachers can elect to have salaries spread out over 12 months or the 10 in which school is in session. Many elect the 12 month option to make budgeting easier.

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Kinshon - it is always easy when you just make up the facts to fit your argument. You have way too many factual errors to keep correcting. Perhaps those great Indiana schools can help you learn some research methods. If you want to use this forum to grind you ax, you should at least get your facts straight.

Supermom, Yes their wages are spread out over a 12 month period if they choose that option but they are only paid for the school year.
RETIREDAIRFORCE, You knew what the pay was going into the airforce. Are you telling me you never got a "cost of living raise"? No one can predict what the cost of living will be 10 or 15 years from the day they start a job.

I'm not familiar about teacher pay, but do teacher salaries get spread out in a 12 month period?

Why do people always insist that teachers get 3 months "vacation"? They are not paid for the summer months anymore than a construction worker is paid for the winter months he doesn't work! The only difference is the construction worker can collect unemployment for his time off. Teachers can't. They are paid for the school year.

Why do teachers complain about low pay; knowing upfront what the pay will be? If you will not be satisfied with those wages choose a different profession. Teaching is no different than any other profession in the respect that wages are set based on what the position is worth. No, I am not saying teachers are not worth high wages. What I am saying is there are many people willing to take these positions at the wages being offered. If the positions were not being filled wages starting wages would increase; this is not new, it has been this way for years.

Kinsohn: Sub Zero and Wolf Appliance, gives much better packages for much less cost. I'm sure glad you're not on a school board in WI anymore!

You're making it too easy!

1. The phrase 'great schools' means the WEA is more interested in PR than really improving education. I saw that first hand when negotiating a new teachers' contract and the union insisted that the extra half hour of teachers conference time for one of the elementary schools had to be negotiated into the contract for the whole year. And of course, the $100k retirement health benefits that no one in any other job would ever get comes right out of the same funds that go for classroom instruction. Please.

2. Thank you for making my point: the union is there to ensure bad teachers stay on the job.

3. One district in the whole state? And limiting the STEP increase to 3.8%? Many teachers get more than that as their retirement benefits and tenure/education credits roll up. In any case, I think most people would be happy with a 3.8% raise and basically a guaranteed job.

4. Wisconsin is a tax hell. Did I miss something?

5. Tenure and education are not indicators of great instruction, and certainly not the best ones. They are, however, an indication of a pay system perfectly designed for meatpacking or other union activities.

We all know this from our own experiences: the best teachers were rarely the ones that had been there 40 years regardless of their education. A system that spends more per pupil than any other industrialized country and has its students' performance on par with Romania is not a "system that works."

Also, like I said the QEO does not include health retirement benefits that are usually over $100k. Please spare me straw men about balance sheets that has nothing to do with the QEO.

6. Most teachers are under contract for 150 days, and you're not counting Christmas or Spring Breaks. Oops!

7. You're right, instead of Cadillac I should have said Rolls Royce. Please name one employer public or private that provides the benefits that the school district does for as little cost to the employee.

getinvolved...I'm waiting for your answer to JohnDoe...

The first question I would ask is...based on a 12 month contract...as are police and fire...both of whom have employer paid educational requirements...what is the monetary requirements you would expect?

Knowing that college degrees are required of all mentioned professions.

theone: Sign me up....I'd have no problem signing up for a 12 month contract as long as my pay is increased. I'm a younger teacher with a family and I currently need to work during the summer at a second job to make ends meet. I'd have it easier on a 12 month contract because now not only do I teach during the school year I work a second full time job during the summer, I take graduate classes, prepare new lesson plans for the next year, write curriculum, create new activities for my students...etc. I'm so tired of people complaining that teachers only work 9 months a year.....many of us put in so many hours a week during the school year that it more than averages out over the summer. Don't get me wrong....in this economy I'm thrilled to have a job. I just believe many bright young people are leaving the field or are avoiding it to have the opportunity to make more money elsewhere. I've seen a number of people including tallman ask for a performance based pay system....great.....now how does it work? It really is a good concept but please explain how it would actually work? How do you compare classroom A with classroom B? How do you compare special ed classrooms with advanced placement classrooms? Who makes that call? Are administrators in charge of deciding who top educators are? Everyone throws this around but I have yet to see how it would actually work. Your right, there are teachers who probably should not still be teaching but isin't that a problem in every field? I'm sure there are doctors, cops, firemen, business executives....etc. that are not giving it all and should probably retire. Why do people want to make it seem like this is only a problem in education?

Just a thought here...but I have posed this question many a time... to many a teacher...with no response...

What is so wrong with teachers signing a 12 month contract which includes the school district covering the cost of educational requirements to maintain teaching credentials?

If teachers are as serious about this as they pretend to be...lead the charge...and I'll sign on.

Kinshon wrote:
A few thoughts....

1. If teachers want to be treated like professionals, they should not organize themselves like meat packers.Their union system discourages excellence, rewards mediocrity, and protects incompetence.

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Ya got something against meat packers? The phrase "great schools" mean anything to you? The WEA strives for excellence, as does just about every teacher on the job.Yes, there are a few bad apples, but get serious.

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2. I never saw a union rep defending a good teacher and I never heard a teacher satisfied with their job:I think …bitter more often than not.

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From that post, apparently you can relate to bitterness. Good teachers usually don't need to be defended by a union rep.

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3. I never heard of a district actually imposing the QEO.

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Milton did so a few years back.

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4. Wisconsin is a tax hell .... I now live in IN, where income taxes are half and property taxes 2/3 of WI, and the education every bit as good.

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I'd check the latest results from the college boards and other national tests of educational results. Wisconsin rates in the top few every time.

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5. The QEO doesn not figure in retirement benefits,..., including >$100k in retirement health benefits after 10 years.

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No one talks about it because it doesn't exist. Most teachers can earn up to 4 years of benefits if they work for a district for more than 20 years. And schools do need to account for that future benefit and present it on their balance sheet.

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6. Because all teachers are paid on tenure, young bright ambitious people are less likely to become teachers, and fewer stay on. Until pay is adjusted to reflect some measure of performance, this won't change no matter how big the raises.

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Teacher pay in most Wisconsin districts is based on experience and continuing education. Both factors tend to lead to better teachers. Again - you can find exceptions, but in general the system works.

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7. I challenge anyone to find a job in WI that pays significantly better than a teaching job with only a BA from a second-tier school and mediocre grade point average, 3 months vacation, Cadillac benefits, unbelievable retirement, and almost no chance of being fired.

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Most of my kids teachers started with BA's from "second rate schools" like UW-Madison, and other big 10 schools. The "3 -month vacation" is now from June 15 - August 20, a time during which most teachers teach summer school or take continuing education courses. In comparison to of hours worked on average per year, teachers do about the same or more than other salaried professionals. What they don't have are any paid vacation days, or the right to even take a vacation of more than one day during the year. Oh, and don't worry, those "Cadillac Benefits" are making the district rich in Janesville as they charge the teachers sky-high premiums and pay out little in benefits.

Just to cut to the chase here...because this will be one of the first questions from a teacher...does your job require a four year degree?

While I'm not much for government dictating salaries, the education system is not a private entity, as businesses are, and the reason we got to the point of the QEO was because raises got to the point where they always raised taxes. I find the timing of all this rather ironic as many people are without jobs, and if you're lucky enough to still have one you'd be lucky to see a 1% bump, much less 3.8%. I can say from personal experience that in 10 years at my current profession I have yet to see much more than a 2.5% average annual increase in salary/benefits. But, I chose my profession, if I'd have been smarter I'd have chosen education, then at least the governor would actually be doing something to benefit me, instead of bending me over the sink as he's been doing the past 6 years. Live and learn I guess.

">$100k in retirement health benefits after 10 years. No one talks about that."
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No one talks about that because it is as fictional as the Easter Bunny. You must be mistaking teachers for administrators.

A few thoughts, having spent 8 years on a WI school board.

1. If teachers want to be treated like professionals, they should not organize themselves like meatpackers. Their union system discourages excellence, rewards mediocrity, and protects incompetence.

2. I never saw a union rep defending a good teacher, and I never heard a teacher satisfied with their job: I think between working for the government and being unionized, they feel powerless over their lives and consequently bitter more often than not.

3. I never heard of a district actually imposing the QEO.

4. Wisconsin is a tax hell and property taxes are a large part of it. Trust me, I know: I now live in IN, where income taxes are half and property taxes 2/3 of WI, and the education every bit as good.

5. The QEO doesn not figure in retirement benefits, which for most teachers are unbelievable, including >$100k in retirement health benefits after 10 years. No one talks about that.

6. Because all teachers are paid on tenure, young bright ambitious people are less likely to become teachers, and fewer stay on. Until pay is adjusted to reflect some measure of performance, this won't change no matter how big the raises.

7. I challenge anyone to find a job in WI that pays significantly better than a teaching job with only a BA from a second-tier school and mediocre grade point average, 3 months vacation, Cadillac benefits, unbelievable retirement, and almost no chance of being fired.

curtaincall wrote..."I thought Tommy's wife Sue Ann was a teacher?? So would he really screw the teachers?"

Well...he did...unless she had a headache....

Mooser, I didn't say that any teacher had no degree. I said NOT qualified to teach. If you do not understand, there is a difference. I made it clear one can have a masters, and beyond yet not able to teach. They get hired based on having a degree not based on their ability to teach. We need pay for performance not based on the paper for which one holds. The schools need the backing and the ability to weed out poor teachers and to think there are none is foolish. Good teachers get the same pay and treatment as the poor teachers. Tax dollars should be better spent, and those paying taxes should be able to expect the same. I have two degrees yet don't presume I could fly a space ship because of the paper I was awarded for paying and sitting through classes and writing good papers/thesis. If you pay enough and put forth a minimal effort the paper degree is obtainable. I again, believe it should be based on performance, not years of service that determines whether or not my employer must keep me in good pay and benefits regardless of my ability to do a good job.

Tallman,
Your comment speaks for many in this community and it is sad. "Degrees mean nothing except that one spent allot of time in school and could afford to do so." If that is the case than how about if I do brain surgery on you? According to your theory having a Dr. do it is pointless because that title Dr. is only due to a worthless peice of paper. That could solve our high insurance rates as well. We could hire average people off the street to replace the doctors for half the cost.

Bigmike, I didn't compare teacher pay to GM workers, they always did. Next, many jobs require four year degrees and continuing education, and why should I go find you a better job? My point is clear that if one doesn't like their pay and benefit package go elsewhere it is a free country. As far as moving away due to high taxes take a look at the decline in students and more to come. School choice is good as some schools will demand performance or out the door for teachers. Every school has teachers that are NOT qualified to actually teach students. I agree with the theory that an individual should be allowed to teach based on their abilities which would include those with wide experiences. A paper degree means nothing in relation to teaching someone else. I worked in government and we had those with masters degrees that were lucky to be able to lock a door and or be able to depend on them to do it. Degrees mean nothing except that one spent allot of time in school and could afford to do so.

packerfan1, I thought Tommy's wife Sue Ann was a teacher?? So would he really screw the teachers?

Purrmaid - You are implying that the “dumbing” down of America will be fixed by spending more money on an education system that obviously is not working. According to an article published by the Future of Children published in the Fall of 2006 “Meeting the standards requires paying attention to what goes on in the classroom and especially to the quality of teaching. “ This article implies also that part of the problem is “the difficulty of identifying good teachers before they enter the classroom. Good teaching has almost nothing to do with the paper credentials that are now used to license novice teachers. One solution, detailed by Robert Gordon, Thomas Kane, and Douglas Staiger, is to open entry into the profession to a wider range of prospective teachers and to evaluate their performance on the job, relying principally on the learning gains they produce once in the classroom.” The education system in this country is in need of reform and spending more money on an already broken system will not fix what ails it.

No one should begrudge even one cent spent on educating our most valuable resource. If you want America to succeed, start investing in the intelligence of its populace and start when they're young. The dumbing down of America is appalling. Even on this website, the amount of misspellings and misuse of simple words is sad. And what do these people think when corrected? Not that someone is hoping to assist in bettering their vocabulary or spelling skills, but that they are being venomously attacked. Ignorance is unfortunate, but striving to stay that way is sadly pathetic. "The world won't stop if you don't have an education, it'll just pass you by."

There are other professions that require a four year degree plus continuing education credits. Teachers are not alone in this so please do not imply that they are. They are also not the only ones that are underpaid when compared to others.

Tallman you are way off. Teachers have a 4 year degree and are required to continue their education. GM workers weren't even required to have a high school diploma so don't try to compare that. Teachers are way underpaid. Go find me another job field where you need a Bachelors degree, teaching certificate and are required to take continuing education and then come back and tell me why a 32,000 per year salary is too much. The low pay is one reason most of our brightest high school students shy away from going into education and choose higher paying jobs in other areas. You should quit complaining and if you don't like the idea of higher taxes in Janesville,...you should move and leave us who value education to stay here.

tallman,
I am a union electrican; I think the teachers get screwed by this qeo deal that Thompson came up with, it singled out teachers, all other government workers were exempt. It was retaliation on teachers for not backing gov Thompson.

Well, now that GM union workers pay is also off the table for teachers to use as a comparison, maybe we can get actual pay for performance. No more high GM worker pay for teacher's eight and a half months worth of performance. For me it's real simple pay a decent pay package for time served and performance evaluted. If a teacher isn't performing the system needs to cleanse those not performng. It also is insane to have surpluses in the multi-millions. If they don't need the money STOP over taxing the "taxed to death" property owners. But, that doesn't mean to "spend it or we won't get it again" theory either used by government agencies. I worked in government and at the end of the budget year they would come around begging for workers to come up with things to spend what was left over so we could get the same or more money replaced in our budget, it's a fact. Any teacher that doesn't like their pay or benefits then go find what your looking for in another district or other field. We shouldn't have unions in government employment anyhow, they merely wage andd benefit themselves out of jobs just as GM unions to their employees. It's time for tough love in a tough economy.