I always believed Michigan would get new "product".Wisc. politicans are now crying foul? Too many negatives for Jvl to even be considered,Photo ops for state pols.,"look at me,I'm trying","translates to "Vote for me"in 2010.Gazette please report news,not speculation.GENEROUS MOTORS is HISTORY in Jvl.Long overdue to man-up,and move forward.

As usual, the comments on this board have steered far away from any relevance to the information contained in this article. I am not surprised at all and this is just another reflection on how screwed up Janesville really is.

I don't push physical activity on my kids they enjoy all that stuff. My son spends his time at Jabs and loves it then when he gets done by his own choice he plays basketball with his friends, my daughter also loves to spend time outside playing with friends, I push nothing on my kids, I just feel spending the summer doing nothing isn't good for kids. My kids have choices to, they just chose to not sit around and do nothing.

My fear is that the attitudes in this city will keep any large businesses from locating here. It will take us decades to recover if we can only attract businesses that hire 15 people at a time.
-----------------
Although I will agree some GM workers had attitudes, I feel it's unfair to label every GM worker as such. Many were active in the community, charities, and supported local businesses. Many had their own businesses on the side. Moreover, I can speak from experience when saying office mentality can be just as bad. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to degrade others to help themselves feel better. Having worked at Lear, I worked with people who had masters, bachelors, and associate degrees. They worked at Lear because the benefits and pay was superior to any alternatives. I'm sure the same can be said for GM. One of our former Lear workers is now working at the Job Center. People want to make a good living and support a family. In addition, they want to have a retirement. GM, Lear, and other manufactures offered that opportunity. Who can fault someone for that?

Oh and hank my brother works at GM in Orion my dad retired from GM and I have cousins & other relatives that all worked at GM and I am very proud of every single one of them. They are all outstanding citizens and individual people, more than I can say for some people on this blog.

I would not be bragging about letting my kids play video games all the time no matter how complex they are. My kids play but only every now and they do physical activities outside to keep them physically fit - like basketball, football ride bikes, swim which I feel is better for a child then complex video games. My son use to build stuff with legos without instructions all the time alot of kids do. There comes a time when a parent should say hey get off the video games and go play outside or have we lost sight of being healthy and active.

Hank...A couple of your posts really crack me up....Seriously--keep up the good work!

Don't forget mastering the complexity of legos. There's a real challange!

hank - I would really be ashamed to say that my kids can "master a video game on a regular basis". That tells me thats all your kids do is play on video games. SAD!

mel - then using your logic, you must be saying that LSI and LEAR people going to school must reduce their unemployment benefits by the amount TRA or the Displaced workers program pays for schooling.After all, that is "extra" money they get too.
Your logic is pathetic and just mean spirited.

Mel- wow..I cant stand to see the "GM bashers".It appears to be jealousy.I cant understand why so many people are so concerned as to what "GM" employees purchased over the years from being gainfully employed. Bottom line- its not your business or mine. I would say that more people need to get over the fact that they did not make an outstanding wage w/bennies like others did...No-I did not work at GM, nor did any members of my family.

cullen feels bad for the 1500 hundred people.hmm what about the rest of the people who lost their jobs at lsi and lear?once again its always about the gm employees.who are doing hell of alot better than the rest of us, and if their not its their own fault,trying to live above their means.i honestly believe gm will not come back here until each an every employee of gm has given up and moved on,they do not want to pay them the wages or give them the health benefits.the unemployment wouldnt be so high if all those gm employees would not be allowed to get unemployment with their sub pay.the sub pay they deserve they paid for it,but if any other person had another income coming in they would not be allowed to get unemployment with it.so its the states fault for giving them the unemployment along with their other income,while the rest of us has to live on one income.and yes im very disappointed that janesville did not get that plant here,so for those of you who think its funny its not.but as far as all the sorrow for only one set of employees,is wrong.benefits will be running out for some of us soon but not for others which is very unfair.

WOW!!!!!!!!! JANESVILLES MENTALITY AT ITS FINEST

Most Gm workers did'nt bother with College because they had a family member who worked there. It was and still is an entitlement program for the high school graduate or less educated.

Of course now that the company is broke, the rest of us get to help pay taxes for these deserving individuals with our tax dollars.

How long do you think the Government will be able to keep "New GM" afloat before they go belly up?

Union designed cars? Right,that will exite the public into buying GM cars again.

Hank - I would be annoyed as you were at the idiots who acted like that. But I believe in individual responsibility. I am not responsible for someones actions unless I caused it. I did not label all GM managers at Janesville as jerks, just because some had a Napoleon complex. I worked with a lot of good people, management and hourly. If one sees life so simple and be hard headed in making a wrong assumption, how is one so different than the obnoxious idiots that they despise?

momo - lets hope this country can keep a moral compass. It seems to be spinning out of control.

chad_vader: I know you weren't the original author of this but it does say it ALL. It disgusts me the way WE toss other generations to the side. NO retiree should EVER see a cut in their pension or benefits. Past generations are not obstacles for us to jump over in an attempt to get what we want.

Here's chad's "original" post...

"I have little use for those who only see him as a legacy cost to be shed. Legacy costs have names. They're the people who made companies like GM and all of American industry great, who fought wars to keep us safe and who made it possible for Wall Street and the media to prevaricate and pontificate. But that's what we do now, use fancy words to mask what we are doing so we don't have to admit to ourselves that it is actually human beings we are talking about."

Gosh, I feel so inadequate now. There is a super jean yus family living in our midst! You seem to enjoy putting down regular folk, keeping them in their place, right boss? A degree or even higher intelligence does not make one a better person, as you have shown. You insult the intelligence of all auto workers, not seeing that many went beyond just lifting 75 lbs. And you obviously have no idea what it was like to work those jobs, so your opinion is based on rumors and assumptions. Don't fall of your pedestal, you might fall on us slugs.

Gee hank, it's the people who believe reality is perception and not the truth who are to blame for this wacky world. Perception belongs in the marketing and advertising world. And since when did the average high school kid take trig and calculus? When one talks of a high school education, I don't believe those can be assumed. Oh, and thanks for trying to insult my job experience. I guess i am not a jean yus like you. Thank god.

All I can say about this article is DDDDUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!!!

P.S. I was TOTALLY against the bailouts in the financial sector as well. With the massive amount of greed that overwhelmed those companies, they should have been left to fall on their faces......

Hi Aruba....I'm not really bent out of shape....I mean, it is what it is......As I have been saying from the beginning, I think both management and the union should share in the blame of GM's failure. The organization structure itself which led to an "us vs. them" mentality within the same company definitely contributed to it's downfall. Too busy to rehash it all now--go though some of the other posts in this thread and you'll see the arguments being made.......

But why are you so bent out of shape about GM, its not just GM. What about BOA, AIG, Fannie & Freddy, Enron, the airlines, not to mention the countless other businesses that have gone belly up or needed bailouts because they were mismanaged. And not all those companies were unionized. And in the case of the financial sector, those companies employed educated people and are run by educated people, yet they failed miserably too. So I don't understand how you can blame the working men and women for GM's failure.

Don't know the answer to that Aruba. As I have said from the beginning, I think everyone in GM's organization was seriously overpaid--from the CEO all the way down to the guy sweeping the floors....It's no surprise that Toyota and Honda have surpassed GM--better management, better workforce, better products......GM should be looking to those companies as it begins to "reinvent" itself.....

916...Explain What the GM CEO did to be compensated so much more than Toyota's 37 executives. I can't even begin to imagine what the top 37 executives at GM were paid in comparison. If Toyota can run a successful company paying what they did to their execs, why can't GM do it?

aj131 - many GM and Ford plants are now very efficient according to the Harbour studies. Of course, just like accounting, there are loopholes that allow plants to look better than they are, both implants or locals. Plus, just because of their size, larger vehicles are going too require more labor to build. With transplants building small cars mostly, their total efficiency will always look better than GM's. And while you gauge the wages on a "high school education", the lack of further education does not necessarily measure ones intelligence. We did have many jobs that required a higher aptitude than the average high school requires for graduation. People like to make the job requirements simplified, when it actually has various levels. I had a job that required knowledge of torque requirements and the laws and rules that applied. Did I have a degree? no, but this still required a higher level of learning than "high school".

916 -the legacy costs ARE being addressed, in case you haven't heard. But let me repeat what a news writer wrote about his father, as it says it all:
"I have little use for those who only see him as a legacy cost to be shed. Legacy costs have names. They're the people who made companies like GM and all of American industry great, who fought wars to keep us safe and who made it possible for Wall Street and the media to prevaricate and pontificate. But that's what we do now, use fancy words to mask what we are doing so we don't have to admit to ourselves that it is actually human beings we are talking about."

Aruba......The $9.3 million that GM pays the CEO is a drop in the bucket when compared to the $6 billion in annual legacy expense that it has to pay to it's retired union workforce. I couldn't imagine running a company where you're in the hole $6 billion right out of the gate.

It isn't just wages...you have to consider the benefits too. They were paying people way too much to do a job any high school graduate could do. And before you guys get mad at me let me be clear. I owe everything I have to GM. My father, both my grandfathers, and all 7 of my uncles worked at GM at one time or another. I'm the first male from my family to have never worked at the plant.

That being said, I wrote a paper while I was in college about the collapse of the US auto industry (this was in 99). At that time GM was the least efficient company in the world based on the balance between what they paid their workforce (salary + bennys) and what they got out of the (production). However, when I showed it to my father he basically laughed at me for being a college kid who knew nothing and gave me the old “as GM goes so does the country” line. The writing was on the wall and has been on the wall for some time.

It is a sad day in our nation's history but we'll find a way to bounce back. I wish the best of luck to those who have been impacted by this the most. Keep your head up and keep plugging away. As my mother always used to say, "this too will pass".

By the way, both Ford and GM are worldwide companies, and can design, build and import small, foreign made vehicles, just like the transplants. High union wages would not be part of the equation. Why couldn't Ford and GM beat Toyota, Honda and Nissan at their own game?

DiGriz, your point is valid, but to be fair, companies can't afford to design cars and then wait to use them. What they should have done is figured out a way to make a profit on those small cars, instead of riding the SUV gravy train over the cliff. Note that the Nissan Versa and class leading Honda Fit were designed BEFORE gas hit $4+/gallon. The only competition GM had for those was the South Korean built Chevy Aveo, a design which doesn't come close to matching the transplants. Ford has nothing, but the upcoming Fiesta looks promising.

I don't think it's the Union wages/benefits that are at fault. In 2006, GM's CEO made 9.3 million, while Toyota's top 37 executives made a combined total of 21.6 million in 2006. Now convince me that Union wages are the result of GM's problems.

"I'm certainly not pro-union, but when did they start designing cars and planning product and marketing strategy?"
-
You'd think a smart company would have had a back-up plan with at least two or three well-designed affordable economy cars just waiting for such a situation as this. Instead, the only people who have a product we need are foreigners.... I guess we didn't learn in the 70's, did we?

"what's the purpose of a union organized labor strike where you put the company that is supporting you in a position where it loses millions of dollars?"

The question you should ask is, what kind of company would AGREE to those wages, if they were losing money? The Big 3 were making gobs of money when those contracts were originally negotiated. Now, they have renegotiated. I doubt lower wages and benefits would have saved GM when yearly sales dropped from 16 million to 10 million units a year.

"if it where me, they woulda been fired for loosing money in the first place."

DING DING DING! You are the winner!
GM lost money on North American operations for Rick Wagoner's entire tenure, yet the board of bystanders did nothing. GM has been forced to do in bankruptcy (with our tax dollars) the things they should have done on their own (reduce brand overlap; reduce dealers that compete with each other; renegotiate union wages/benefits in line with the transplants; etc.).

Failure starts at the top folks. GM, Ford and Chrysler paid above average wages for years because they were making obscene amounts of money on large SUV's. Simple supply and demand. GM was just too slow in planning for the future. Ford has managed to do it, so far.

I'm certainly not pro-union, but when did they start designing cars and planning product and marketing strategy? Above average union wages are a symptom of a poorly run automotive industry, not the cause.

what always got my goat is to see a company i work for loose money while top execs get billions in bonuses. if it where me, they woulda been fired for loosing money in the first place. not always the the Unions or Joe Workers fault. the greed ran high in the corporation........i would also like to see equal taxes, tariffs ETC for equal products. while our exports are often taxed out of competition overseas, they either import at next to nothing or Various southern senators get the companies HUGE tax breaks in the first place.

chadvader--if management simply "gives union laborers what they get" and the union labors never make management bow down to their whims--what's the purpose of a union organized labor strike where you put the company that is supporting you in a position where it loses millions of dollars? Is it done just to mix it up a little bit and have some fun on the company's dime?:)

hankie- the meaning of what I said was that management gives us what we get, nothing about making them bow to our whims, thus they are responsible for those decisions. Quit reading through those Rush Limbaugh glasses, and seeing what you only want to see. And most of us have had many other jobs before this. Your sounding idiotic and petty.

If foreign companies want to do business in the USA, then they should be forced to pay higher wages that were once the norm here. The American workers shouldn't be forced to work for lower wages just because those companies pay their workers less in their own country. It's just lowering our standard of living to match theirs. $50,000 a year for a typical family trying to make ends meet is too much, but $10,000,000 for a CEO is not? Rarely do the CEO's even face the daily costs of living a family does. Transportation to work everyday, that's a business expense (and I bet their kids are taken to school by the company car too). Insurance: that's paid for by the company. Food: I doubt all those business lunches are coming out of their pocket either, just another "business" expense. But somehow these CEO's can run their companies into the ground and they still get "performance" bonuses. American workers shouldn't be at odds with each other. For God's sake, there are elderly people in this country eating cat food just to survive because the majority of their pension goes to paying outrageous medical bills. There is something fundamentally wrong with this country!

anonomouse - the point is, how do you know when it is too high unless you have all the information? Information we workers never see.

ihavealife - true. I was just having fun while taking breaks during schoolwork here at home.Time to relax.

I would like to be the first to thank about 5-8 of you for all the entertainment on this post over the last four days. It has been hilarious to read some of these and listen to adults bicker over something that is now history. Keep them coming because it's great entertainment. GM Janesville may you R.I.P.

chad....From one GM family to yours..Please just let it go.Most on here will NEVER understand what we do/did working for GM.It's more upsetting to read these things said about us than not.Bless of luck to all families.

Chad you also bargain yourself out of a job when wages get too high.

916 - read up on collective bargaining, you may learn why it is a powerful tool for the worker and why it and unions came about. They are running the company. When we push for more, they have to give it to us. When they want something, it's like congress giving themselves a raise, it is easily done. Big difference. The reason you could not walk out is your bargaining power was weak as a single individual, hence our strength with collective bargaining. You are almost completely held to managements whim. Like I said, read up on why unions were formed. It is still relevant today.Management is supposed to give us some competitive vehicles to build, that's what they are supposed to do. Get off their fat, complacent butts.

ChadVader--you're sounding hypocritical now. On one hand you say it's completely acceptable to push management as far as you can to get the most for yourself--yet when management does the same thing(look out for themselves and take as much as they can) they are to be held responsible for the downfall of the company? No, I've never turned down a raise, but I've also never threatened to harm the company by walking out if I didn't get one. As far as the retirees are concerned, there's no money left, so as sad as it is, GM can't afford to keep paying their way. What is management supposed to do?

some of you are concerned with the amount of GM's retirees to the amount of Toyota's retirees. lets take a look at that in 25 yrs or so and see how many Toyota has seeing as they have just started building in the states in the last 10 yrs.

Maybe for management it was more stock options. It seems that it was that way for the "big" boys. For hourly, it is money that was supposed to be put in a fund, in lieu of wages.Of course, that fund probably got raided or underfunded when someone mismanaged the finances. Many hourly have 401k's too, a surprise to those who gauge us as financial idiots. I almost wish they had a company match program, at least I would be in charge of my money now.

and you would blame people for trying to get all they could? When was the last time you told your boss you didn't want a raise? Look up the word negotiations. When we vote on a contract, we aren't given a look at GM's books. We just vote on what GM agreed to give us. The Union is paid to get the best for it's membership, same as a lawyer gets you the most they can in an injury lawsuit. There are some faults that I can agree the union has, but this is not one of them. Yes, Toyota doesn't have as much a legacy cost, but they probably didn't need dental care in the south. Some of that legacy cost has already been dealt with. But shoving those retirees to the curb, and saying "too bad, see ya" is immoral. It will not be a quick road back, but not an impossible one. But they need products, again this is a MANAGEMENT decision.

ChadVader......Everyone made much more than they should have--from the guy sweeping the floor all the way up to the guy running the place. For a company that was spiraling downward, none of the excessive pay was justified. Management as well as the union bled the company dry. Toyota might only have 60,000 more retirees, but they are not nearly as burdened with legacy costs--their employees have a much more mainstream 401K program in place. The 2 billion paid to Fiat wouldn't have made a dent. The last figure I read reported legacy costs at roughly $6 billion a year.

hank - no one denies there is much fault to go around.But many want to only blame the union, that is a gross mistake. Management runs the company, if it is mismanaged (not JUST in wage discussions) then the buck stops there. I see you point on costs going up, but you seem to miss that prices had also gone up. Those production costs get carried over to the consumer. Basic business economics. GM's failed ventures here and abroad had them bleeding like a stuck pig. And we had continuous improvement at Janesville, that is why we won many quality awards, year after year.

916wi - that is somewhat true. But in 2004 GM had only an estimated 60 thousand more retirees than Toyota. The biggest cost is health care (now supported by VEBA),which is not a GM problem but our countries problem. People lose sight of the fact that if health care was more affordable, it would not be such a big deal. There will be more retirees now because of the buyouts, but a lot of people seem to not live long after because of the toll on their bodies. But that 2 billion they gave to FIAT would have paid those many of the legacy costs for a long time. Many can't tell you the huge burden all the mismanagement has cost GM, but with all the failed pet projects of the CEO's and other things GM is now in a bad position.THEY made the big bucks, most of the blame can be put in their laps.

FortWayneGm said: "Washington has been making the business decisions for GM ever since Obama fired Wagoner in March. This decision can be solely credited to President Obama and his Keystone Cop Car Czars."

Of course. It was all Obama's decision. It couldn't be that $779M tax credit package from the Michigan Economic Growth Authority, or the $100M 25-year, 100 percent tax abatement from the municipality of Orion Township, or Oakland County’s $136.5m in retraining money. Naaa, that can't be it at all.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090626/BU...

Hey genious, Wisconsin got outbid. Of course, not having suppliers and an existing stamping plant didn't help. I guess you can't criticise just the southern states anymore for giving huge tax breaks to auto companies.

ChadVader--Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the majority of the 265,000 people employed in 1992 by GM still collecting from GM in the form of pensions and health care benefits? While they are not technically on the payroll, they are definitely a huge burden to the company.......

"it cost just as much or more to employ 73,000 in 2007 as it did to employ over 200,000 in 1992. Thats simple economics." Maybe too simple. That is a reduction of almost 3/4th's of the labor force. Meanwhile, the cost of vehicles surely didn't go down through the years. So if the increase in profits from vehicle sales was even close to the same percentage as the increase in wages, then how can losing that much of your labor force NOT increase profits. As the article said,"profits were siphoned off into investments overseas, dividends, bonuses, or unaccountable black holes of financial rigmarole. In 2005 GM paid Fiat $2 billion dollars to get out of a “put option” that would have required GM to purchase Fiat." I bet a few of those bonuses and golden parachutes management claimed would have more than paid for our benefits. But hey, don't complain about those greedy bastards who mismanaged this company to the point it is now. That attitude is why AIG and the rest got a free ride through all this.

Read this, maybe you can then figure out what is happening to GM and our country:
http://www.soldiersofsolidarity.com/file...

Explain this, Hank:
GM sold 4.4 million vehicles in the US in 1992 and employed 265,000 UAW members.
GM sold 4.5 million vehicles in the US in 2007 and employed 73,000 UAW members.

A company can’t make productivity improvements as astounding as that and lose money on labor. Something else is shaking the timbers. Maybe we should question the competitiveness of salary workers? How do they compare with their Japanese counterparts in compensation and achievement? Or more precisely, who’s controlling the money?

aruba -he checked with his grammar and she can't reckon how to spel it neither.

Hank - you put too much power and blame on the workers and the union. Yes, the union needs to quit taking care of the deadbeats (they do that because they complain the loudest, squeaky wheel gets the grease). But we have little input as to how the business is run, so cut out the finger pointing.

Hannah - if you are using Internet Explorer check this site out for a free spell checker:
http://www.ieaddons.com/en/details/Time_...

When you right click in the box, it gives you a spell check option. I use Firefox too, and i think that was built in.
Nobody should be put down on a few spelling mistakes, or typos. But I can't help laughing at those professing to be superior to an auto worker when they screw up. What a bunch of Church Ladies (old Sat night live reference)

I say get spell check on the gazette or ADD AS A RULE at the bottom to stop being spelling police as a rule.

Somebody deleted my google task bar. WHO WAS IT??? I will have to put it back up there. It has spell check doesnt do much for grammar though.

There is so much anger and rude comments on this message board. No wonder Janesville is going down the drain.

whoops, forgot the G in Afghanistan.....I guess I'll have to figure out how to use the spell checker on these comment boards....oh, that's right, there isn't one....

Where are they making suburbans now?? There are scads of them in Afhanistan, all loaded up with "bullet-proof" glass, and Warlock anti-IED systems. They make more sense than MRAPS to me, but if they are going to make more MRAPS, let them make them in Janesville. Forget the subcompacts...Foreigners make them better, apparently, because wasn't just about every subcompact offered to the American consumer made somewhere else? The best car I ever owned was a 1986 Ford Escort, assembled in Canada with parts from Mexico. I should have bought three and put two in storage......

Isnt it neat that these people are smarter than us and know we are spelling things incorrectly and are grammar sucks.
I DIDNT KNOW THAT!!! Thanks for telling me!!!

hankhill: Your most recent posting here gave me the best laugh I have had in weeks. Thank you!!

hank...two words, spell check. Wait. Four words...spell check, grammar check

Washington has been making the business decisions for GM ever since Obama fired Wagoner in March. This decision can be solely credited to President Obama and his Keystone Cop Car Czars.

I get really tired of all the job snobs in this town. What is this...high school?!? You're not cool unless you work at the mall?? It doesn't matter what you do for a living. Your job doesn't make you who you are. Better to work ANYWHERE than sit on welfare expecting everybody else to support you. Grow up already.

vader...They have to create some kind of distraction to draw the attention away from all those "ethical" Republican Senators that have been in the news lately.

My question is why didn't we have tax protests when trillions of dollars were wasted on a mismanaged war or simply "disappeared" without any accountability. While I hate waste, this seems like a Republican whine fest to me.

Tax Payer Protest rally at the Post Office on July 4th 9am-12pm. Trillions of dollars taxed and spent but what do we have to show for it? Every time they hit us for taxes we hear its a JOBS BILL..yah our jobs in China, Canada, Mexico, France but nothing here except summer jobs and census jobs for "ACORN" AKA (Community Organizations International). Time to say ENOUGH! Fight Back Wisconsin.

Oh, and your taking orders on the World Wide Web 3 now?? How cool. Better than working at Buffalo Wild Wings like 916

Jimbo - 916wi is just a GM and Union hatin' playa. Why would a 2 year lapse,WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL, would be a determent??? If that's true, there are a lot of people going to college that are s*@t out of luck.Reading his posts are like an ice cream headache.
Then dorks like hank complain when people DON'T consider further education, then make it sound like you are wasting your time going back to school. Make up your mind, ya hillbilly!

916...In addition, you demonstrate a low level of comprehension since my comments about education were addressed to another person. Once again, your bloated ego got in the way of rational thought.

916...Now you're demeaning people at Walmart, that just proves you haven't mastered coloring within the lines yet. You are one very arrogant person.

jimbo--You're a crackup as well as completely ignorant if you think taking a 2 year "break" will not raise red flags with potential employers. I don't know what direction you're going though. Probably stocking shelves at WalMart or taking orders at WWW3? In these cases you might be good to go. As far as educational background goes, I'm quite sure that I have you beat in that contest:) Once again--good luck in whatever you decide to do!

creature...Thanks for the advice, but I am well aware of the current employment situation and taking the necessary steps. I am not under the illusion (as your brother-in-law was) that a degree is all I need. Maybe you should be addressing your advice to him, sounds like he needs the advice more than I.

hill...That's the best you can do! Make assumptions about people you don't even know. You don't know squat. You've made twenty-eight submissions to this site and in twenty-three of them you are complaining about GM. What a pathetic life you must have. Moreover, it is obvious you have very little knowledge about the auto industry judging by your past submissions. As for your statements about my financial status: you missed the target completely, better read my last post again. Furthermore, I am willing to wager that my educational background is far and above what you could ever hope to achieve.

916...two years out of the workforce for educational reasons is not detrimental to a work history, quite the contrary. Maybe if you were better educated you would have realized it before making that statement.

Jimbo just reinforces the UAW behavior we all have come to know and the UAW people deny. Its all in black and white on this page how the a lot, but not all, of the UAW people are.

Jimbo--Not to mention a 2 year lapse of employment is seriously looked down upon by any HR department. Although with your attitude, it seems that will be the the least of your concerns when you try re-entering the workforce. Good luck--It sounds like you're going to need it!:)

Seems like Janesville would be a good distribution center location for large retailers. Somewhat centrally located between Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, Minneapolis, St. Louis, and Detroit markets with easy access to interstate highways leading to each city and a hard working, dependable, blue collar labor base. My opinion, this is how economic development efforts should market the city from here on.

jimbo - Those benefits are there for you as it was earned. Just like anyone who qualifies for these type of payments. As far as the comment about just collecting till it runs out might not be the best idea. Getting the degree is the best idea but you should be thinking about also doing some intern type work while you attend school. The amount of people on the market now and the short to mid term is not going to change much. Employers can pick and choose as if they were at an all you can eat buffet. A degree alone doesn't get you that job. A degree and related experience is better. Get that degree in a field that complements your previous experience and you're on the right track. I have a brother in-law that decided to get go back to school full-time about 4 years ago and finish his degree. He's been looking for work in his chosen field medical/pharmaceutical sales and had no luck at all. He didn't want to intern while going to school because he said and I'll quote, "A degree is all I need". Well that has not been the case. His previous 12 years of employment was in factories, restaurants and Walmart this doesn't apply to high end sales. He's turned down some mid range end jobs because he said, "I didn't pay $25,000 to make $35,000 a year. It's been 1-1/2 years and no job. They've run out of money, credit cards to the max, behind on house payments, one car was taken away all because of PRIDE.

For snarly, card trader, and the other GM bashers out there. I was going to turn the page and start a new career shortly, but just because of your attitudes, I've changed my mind. I'm going to suck every cent I can out of the system. I'm going to collect unemployment and sub pay for as long as I possibly can. And since I'm a dislocated worker, your hard earned dollars are now paying for my education. I'll have my degree long before my unemployment runs out so I'm really going to enjoy watching your hard earned dollars support me and love every minute of it. It's amazing, I have more money in my bank account now than I did when I was working. In fact, the excess is going into my retirement account because I don't need it right now. Thank you for your continued support. LOL!

As long as this plant is on standby mode, there is still always a chance. However, with this announcement it means many will run out of unemployment long before anything of scale comes around. It also means Janesville will have little choice but to look for alternatives.

I think there is about a 1% chance GM is thinking at all about building or tooling something in the old Janesville GM plant. I think Michigan is GM and GM is Michigan. I use to work for GMAC in the 90's and was lucky enough to take a class at the GM building in Michigan and I can tell you first hand the facility is top notch and world class. Like I said, GM is Michigan and Michigan is GM and unfortunately will stay that way even though the work ethic is probably much better in Janesville than most lazy and overpaid Michigan workers. Most of the GM staff in the GM building are way overpaid and have it too easy for way too long. Just the buffet table during lunchbreaks at the class for a week was top notch and I thought I was in the Presidents suite missing my suit and tie and having to say, 'please, pass the grey poupon'. What was scary was going out at night and only a few miles from the building was seeing poor homeless people rapping on our van window asking for money and standing around burning barrels on fire at night to keep them warm. Not a pretty sight to see and quite scary in Michigan.

Spring Hill is getting new products as well. Next generation Lambda SUT and GMT700s. GM does have plans for Janesville. Otherwise they would have included Janesville in the master sale plans and excluding properties.

That's what I was saying. That means it was all $$$$ and politics and location. Janesville was just a bridesmaid.

My brother transfered from the Janesville plant to the Lake Orion plant and he couldn't believe how the work quality was compared to Janesville, everyone would come up to him and say why are you doing that, he would tell them because it is my job. They don't have the work ethics that the transfers have or the Janesville work force.

Take a drive into Indiana. Gary to be specific and you'll see what is in store for Janesville unless the State and City make some serious headway towards getting real jobs not service sector either. But then maybe I'm wrong and Santa will bring us all mailbox money forever.

Gulp, ok I'm better. Your post was one that was hard to read as either sarcasm or throwing salt in the wound. I took it as the latter. sorry

Hey chad_vader, I'm so sorry I didn't know you were the only one here that was allowed to be funny :( Time for your pill cup little buddy, lol !!!

Coll3ctor - were you standing outside in the storm with a metal pole? You brain is fried and sense of humor about as funny as telling a dirty joke at a funeral.

Hannah - GM did not put the bar there. It is an individual establishment. They neither put a strip club nearby. That is free enterprise. I don't disagree there was some looking the other way by some management, and it was THEIR responsibility, so you can't blame the other workers for that. Plus, there were some managers that were a little tipsy themselves.

"Good news! My sources tell me that GM will be meeting tomorrow with the Wisconsin Congressional delegation about reopening the Janesville Plant. They will be meeting at Sen Kohl's office. I wish them luck! Hopefully, we will have good news very soon!"

Must be very urgent to have this on a weekend ! lol !!!

whatitdo - sorry I still think it is a stupid term when so much went into chosing the plant OR DID IT. as people mentioned it is just politics and no thought was probably ever used to pick this plant just a lot of wasted time and MORE oney.

sorry if you think I am SOOOOOOOO SIMPLE. that was rude. BUt I am tired of hearing about this OVER< OVER AND OVER OH AND OVER again. nothing is ever mentioned about chrylser - hardley ever. there are stores affected by all this GOVERNMENT stuff and belvidere. I would be curious to how many janesville , beliot people work at belvidere vs how many work at gm.

sorry youll have to deal with my spelling. i cannot find my spell check. Somebody did something to my computer.

chadvader- i understand not ALL are drunks there. but HOW could that be allowed??? I would think SOMEBODY could smell this on him.

and why put a bar RIGHT on the campus. is it too hard to walk down the street?? AFTER work. or during lunch if youre just eating.

hannah
the lottery headline. Some people used to say that getting a job at GM is like winning the lottery. Great money and they were lucky to get the job. The city that won the new car won the lottery.

Papers write stories for people at a simple level so people without a lot of brain power can enjoy the stories. Just because you don't understand everything you shouldn't make silly claims. We're lucky we still have a local daily paper.

chad_vader - case closed

Chad: I couldn't agree more. I would also add that people act as if only auto workers drink. I've seen plenty of office people downing a few drinks during lunch break. Does it affect their productivity, their accuracy? Who knows. I guess its OK if you are drinking whine or a fancy fruit drink. That's just social drinking. On the other hand, people GM are alcoholics. It's a double standard.
Hank: I agree with you in the sense that times are changing. We certainly can't expect the kind of growth and pay levels we've seen in the U.S. over the last thirty years. I do, however, believe that GM has a far bigger impact than any of the companies you mentioned or all combined for that matter.

jugofwiskey - more wrong info, thank you! I know a supervisor in Lake Orion. they said their quality was WAY behind ours in Janesville. They were way behind in the quality processes we had implemented, and the younger part of the workforce didn't give a hoot. And this was from a very good, quality minded supervisor we had here in Janesville. So come back when your done drinkin' wiskey!

hannah - the people at the bar accounted for maybe .05 to .1 percent of the workforce. This is like insinuating that if 1 person at your workplace went out and had a drink that all the rest of you are drunks. You can blame individuals,and I will be right beside you, but don't add to the insinuation that all GM workers are drunks.

Michigan has a better work force janesville GM workers are to greedy .

I would say Hank, that the auto biz has more fingers in the community (suppliers, etc. ) than most companies. While I will agree that the state has lacked in keeping companies in the past, why are you complaining when they are actually TRYING to do something now. If you expect change, you must let go of past transgressions.

Spunkmeyer: I applaud your optimism, but your point is nonsensical.
"I work in a grocery store and we are overwhelmingly busy"
No kidding? People still need to eat. Aldi's is especially busy. I'm guessing the cheaper the store, the busier you are.
---
"The stores and restaurants are still packed every weekend"
Janesville is through town. People stop from I-90, 26, and 14 on their way through to somewhere else to eat or shop. That alone is not a very good indicator of the city's current well being. However, it's great news for all of our local box stores and chains and anyone looking for an eight dollar an hour job. I will also mention that a majority of those laid off from various manufacturers over the last year are still collecting unemployment. If you are maxing out at 355-380 you are making about four more dollars an hour than you will if you actually go back to work. My point being, people still have money. Once uncle sugar runs out, it's bye bye time.

lilbobby
Jun 25, 2009 at 9:07 p.m.
Suggest removal cardtrader- The Gap Inc (Old Navy, The Gap etc) allows workers to drink on lunch breaks, and I'm sure there are others."


interesting!!!!! what happens when they get hurt at work!!!! how does that drug test work for workmans comp.

maybe youre hearing stories.

used cars sales men are drunks too you know, drinking on the job etc. driving cars around- yeah right. try that and run into something and take your drug test and see how it goes!!

I wil say I WITNESSED an oldtimer gm employee drink a PITCHER of beer by himslef and then go back to work. he said he was on his lunch break. If i recall correctly I dont think he ate any food!!

I dont uderstand the front page of gazette for fri. LOTTERY?????? I didnt know they just tossed the names in a basket and drew one. please explain the gazette FALSE headlines. they seem to do this a lot . the story doesnt match the headline or is VERY misleading.

Until we find out what Orion offered, we can't say why GM chose them. Orion is only 30 minutes or so north of Detroit, GM's HQ. Michigan has lost 10 times as many jobs from the decilne in the auto industry as Wisconsin, which was one of the factors in the decision.

I don't consider the comments here a reflection of how "Janesville" feels about GM. 80% of the comments, either here or in sound-off, are complaints about something. Few people bother to make positive statements. That's just our nature. Ignore the few people that have anything bad to say about GM workers themselves.

opinionsforfreebecausetheysuck, I am no GM spokeman, just someone who hates people who like to lie and spread rumors on sites like this while hiding behind a pseudonym. Will I need another job? If you had read my posts you will know I, like many others, are going to school for that exact purpose. Do I NEED another job? I could get by as is, because unlike what you and others mistakenly propagate as the truth, I made sure I was financially set for this closing.
It's disgusting to see a society where people do not care for others because of jealousy. THAT is what makes me worried about the rebound of Janesville. Until everyone grows up, you will just have little groups of primates fighting over the last banana.

Sure looks like the mighty censor Gods are active on this comment section.

Joker is this the same source that gives you all the good news information, if it is I would stop listening to them.
Good news! My sources tell me that GM will be meeting tomorrow with the Wisconsin Congressional delegation about reopening the Janesville Plant. They will be meeting at Sen Kohl's office. I wish them luck! Hopefully, we will have good news very soon!

Patterson confirms: GM picks Orion plant for new small car
Robert Snell / The Detroit News
General Motors Corp. confirmed this morning it has chosen its Orion Township plant over factories in Tennessee and Wisconsin to build a new small car, according to Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090626/...

Back to my question about what focus is on exsisting businesses in Janesville. What are community leaders doing to stop additional family sustaining jobs from leaving the area? This is from a form 10-Q. More will be leaving prior to the end of the year...

Given the continued decline in economic trends, in February 2009 Grainger announced the elimination of 300-400 jobs across the Company's workforce. Grainger incurred approximately $5 million in severance expenses for the elimination of about 200 of these positions during the first quarter of 2009.

The GM physical plant will be a disaster for the City of Janesville for many years to come. We will be stuck with it and spend countless dollars and hours trying to figure out what to do with it. I have no faith in the so called "community leaders". We are in trouble.

Plain and Simple now that Janesville failed on getting GM back, The City of Janesville needs to demand GM to remove the plant after 10 years of standby when and if that time comes. After 10 years in standby that plant won't be worth nothing but scrap. It will be a hazardous and ugly site risking contamination of the area and water. We citizens need to act now and force GM to agree on the removal and cleanup of the site in a timely manner. We cannot stand around and hope forever, actions need to taken immediately while the name of Janesville is still in the GM executives minds.

Score: Michigan 18 Wisconsin 11 - Thats the number of electoral votes by state. This was pure politics people!!!! There was no amount of money or incentives "we" could have thrown at this thing - we were going to loose no matter what.Think about it. Guess the Big O thought he was going to need those 18 votes come 2012. I think he guessed right, God help us all

I agree with Zoom. I work in a grocery store and we are overwhelmingly busy, even during the week. The stores and restaurants are still packed every weekend. So obviously there's still some in Janesville that are doing ok. There ARE jobs out there. They just don't pay the kind of wages some in town are used to. GM closing may make a slight impact on our local economy, but Janesville will survive. Good luck to those of you directly affected by this decision.

I don't believe that we have to lie down and admit that manufacturing is over. And, we certainly don't need to be giving companies INCENTIVES to export jobs overseas, as we currently do. There is a place for high-skilled manufacturing jobs -- the kind of jobs that China and other companies cannot do. Europe has been successful with such jobs, and they have less buying power than the United States. What we need is a concerted effort to attract, support these jobs. And, by the way, no one wants to talk about the fact that such jobs -- and the other high tech jobs -- need a robust educational system. Wisconsin is not doing itself any favors by continually cutting the higher education budget for the state.

huh...my comment was removed. Gazette staff -- please contact corporate at the business I mentioned. This was not a rumor.

Honestly, the bottom line here is.. GM closing has affected ALL of us! Other companies have closed and businesses that have NOTHING to do with GM have closed or laid off people. I make ammunition for the Government and I am laid off.. need I say more? GM closing has affected even the small mom and pop businesses. People are not spending because they just dont have it anymore. People complain about the money and the benefits that GM workers were getting, but if you were hired in making that money and getting those benefits..wouldnt you then expect them? I just am amazed to see how divided one small city can be about a business who has brought so much to our place to live.. Wonder why the World has so many problems.. So many people are affected by ALL the businesses struggling and or closing.. Cant people just put their hearts and heads together to try and make this sad situation a little easier for ALL involved. We here are all people with feelings... lets try and remember this!!

I hate to say it but, with all the focus on GM, have we missed out on "other" auto makers that are building new plants in southern states?

ekim8404 is right. Unless you attract businesses for white collar jobs to the area, you are in great danger of becoming a rust belt. Manufacturing is out people. It is going overseas and there isn't much you can do about it. The best advice you can give a young person right now is Get educated and get away from the stateline area.

Not exaggerated at all. Janesville, Rock County, and the entire Stateline area, has to figure out who it besides a manufacturing area. Everyone touts Mercy as the largest employer...well, where do the spouses of those folks work? Where do all the insured patients come from?

It will be a long term adjustment. Look at the much maligned Beloit as a mirror to Janesville. Heck, at least Beloit as a 4 year college campus and one heck of a nice riverfront park.

Those jobs aren't coming back. People will end up relocating. Maybe in another 10 years things will improve, maybe not. Most folks, like myself, affected by the economy here, can't wait that long. adios.

I agree 100% with this mornings editorial. If you haven't picked up the paper, get this one. The Gazette takes heat on many of their editorials but this one hits the mark. I don't have the political clout that a Tim Cullen does or the financial means that a Mark Cullen has but I have as much passion for this community as they do and will be contacting our city leaders to see if I can help in anyway as we finally move forward.

www.spend-local.com

chad_vader looks like you will have to find another job. You're days of being the janesville GM plant spokesman are OVER. Enjoy the real world like the rest of us.

The rumors of Janesvilles demise have been greatly exaggerated.

hankhill:"just the ability to cognativley think, and be sensiant"

If you use words beyond your ken, learn to spell them.

Gotta love politics... This is gonna certainly be the last nail for this area..

the writing has been on the wall for years. you probably should have moved away when the opportunities were there. I suppose it will take until the building is imploded before the reality sets in that there is no more "gm in janesville".

http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/jun/02/...
.
A few suckers contacted me, and wanted action against Orion MI, saying I did not know what I was talking about........RIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT...He who laughs last, laughs best!

Of course it was me who put out the betting line on the 3 locations, and I made Orion, MI as the HEAVY favorite (at 1/2 odds). Based solely on the political ties and $$$$$$$$. As always that IS what it ALWAYS comes down to!
Like I haven't been around this rodeo before!

The thing I love the most about people in this country is how everyone feels that anyone making more money then thay do, is overpaid and they deserve a pay cut. What people should be thinking is, good for them, what do I need to do to make that kind of money. I don't think people are looking down their noses at people serving them food or drinks, but they are making the point that people working in that field rely on people who make enough money to eat at the resturant they work at and leave them a big enough tip so they can support thir family. Oh and I only have 8.5 years at GM and have been liad off and in school for the last year so, i feel confident in my future. Too bad I will have to go to another city to find work after shcool.

malatang.typical gm mentallity...hope you dont bump your head in the mailbox looking for your next check

Prediction: The plant will become an eyesore more than it already is and will be a headache for the City Council for many years. GM will continue to make broken promises regarding the physical plant, the bankruptcy courts will muddy the waters even more and finally Janesville will buy the property for a $1 and then spend countless dollars on studies and consultants before it is torn down. I have seen it so many times in other communities. Google the Wagon Wheel in Rockton, Beloit Mall in Beloit and the MacWhyte Wire Rope Company in Kenosha as a few examples of what can happen to the GM physical plant. We have some tough days and years ahead of us.

Wow, I don't think I have ever seen so many comments removed on one board. As usual, GM bashers and GM/UAW Kool Aid drinkers are out in full force. Most of the comments on this board are pathetic. If Cullen is surprised at GM not choosing Janesville, then he really needs to stay retired. Wake up Janesville,it is over!!

Lost City I was waiting for your response... NICE ONE!

hankhill i'll let ya know when I leave but, I doubt you could afford wat i flush down the toilet, BTW next time your serving me drinks I'll be sure to short you on your tip with my mailbox money. When the resturant you work for closes up due to lack of business, let me know and i'll laugh when you can't pay the rent.

No matter what GM builds in the future they are not guaranteed success. Many Americans including many former GM dealers are disgusted with GM. GM may have won short term government supported gains but the jury is out on whether they will be able to win back enough loyal customers to remain viable. Now that the future of GM in Janesville has been determined it would be best to move forward quickly. This forward movement should consider the best possible outcomes for all the vacant manufacturing and warehouse space. Energy needs to be directed at attracting new industry. Form a think tank. Partner with Wisconsin's University system. Talk to your state and federal legislators.

My guess would be that most of these GM bsahers posting here are the same ones driving the foreign cars around town and still serving my drinks and meals at the resturants I and my family are eating at. Heres a little reality check for you, people are still getting thier mailbox money from GM and you will see all us GM'ers start leaving this town over the next few years, some will go to other plants, others will finish school and move to other citys for jobs and you will still be here serving drinks and driving your foreign cars around town, good luck, have fun and enjoy what will be left here.

And Hank, I trained people on jobs at GM. 4th grade education?? Come on! Now, I would agree you don't need an associates degree, but somewhere around a 12th grade is more like it. But I can tell you we had a lot of people who were smarter than some who do get those degrees. It's what you do in life that counts, not some paper on a wall.

Cardtrader, you are a first class dork. "Everything is about GM people out of work. " Well, duh! That is what this article is about. Everyone should care about everyone who is laid off. If you don't like the topic, go somewhere else.
And your typical stereotype of a GM worker is way off. Plus, everyone I know going to school is there for an education and possible career change, not to "just extend unemployment".

Hank Hill, an education gets you a less physical job, like yours in management. We were paid for the physical toll on the bodies, and if you have never worked that line for 10 hours you would never know what I meant. We had plenty people who thought they could do it, but walked out the same day they started.

sorry but i don't live next door to you, isn't it past your bedtime yet so real people can post on here?

hankhill: you call a work force nothing more than a bunch of 4 graders and you knock others for name calling? ... yeah your mature. I had someone pointing out my type O so I voiced my opinion, I don't have that same right?

hankhill: I don't need your best wishes, I never worked at GM. You sound like one that likes to cut on people tho ... get them when they are down, your the one that needs the best withes but you won't get any from me.

cardtrader- The Gap Inc (Old Navy, The Gap etc) allows workers to drink on lunch breaks, and I'm sure there are others.

oooooohhhhhh that small car, my souces are talking about the OTHER small car!!!!! Janesville is going to get that one.

hankhill hit it on the head. Everything is about GM people out of work. There are a lot of us Wisconsinites out of work, no health care, no pension left had to use what we had to live on and now owe the government tax money and getting a pentaly and interest fee added every month until we can pay the bill. I guess maybe if the government would have given everyone $100,000 instead of money to help auto makers then people could have paid their bills and put money back into the economy. GM workers you have had it easy your whole work time, running to a bar at lunch and downing beers and then going back to so called work. How many jobs allow you to drink and then go back to work. Should of had DUI for line workers at GM. GM workers that are just saying they want to go to school so they can continue to receive unemployment. Like any of you really want to go to school! Using the system again.

hankhill: is that what you have is a 4th grade education? You sound like another one that wish you could have worked at GM but never had the chance so you knock it all over the place.Someone that likes to talk like they know somethung but knows nothing ... do you hang out with snarly?

snarly....hey, get another job? Ya know? There was a job fair today for North Dakota....why? There are NO JOBS HERE. Get the picture?

Wow.....Big surprise... NOT...

You know, for the 50 Billion used to bail GM out, they could have started a few new car companies from scratch.
Here is a plan:
1. Start a car company
2. Screw it up
3. Get bailout money
4. One way ticket with suitcase full of 50 Billion.

All the GM people should get together, Form a business, get a goverment loan, lease the bld from GM and make their own cars. The skill level is there, the people have the know how. This is America give it a shot.

Please don't let the idiotic comments by snarly affect you. It (snarly) is just trying to affirm its ignoramus status. And you have to admit, it is doing a great job at that. lol

This is a sad day for the workers and the American tax payers while we are stuck with
an old plant that will cost a billion dollars
of tax payers money to superMax cleanup site.

snarly: Your life must really suck talking the way you do about others who have lost thier jobs, to be honest you kind of sound like a low life. I myself have never worked as GM but I do know what it is like to have lost a job at one time and wouldn't wish it on anyone.To have jobs come back to town could only be a good thing but you only cut people down when it doesn't happen and you laugh at them. Your a sad person and I feel sorry for you ... maybe at some point your life will get better and you won't need to be how you are, until that time ... GROW UP.

What goes around comes around snarly, Why so negative towards other people, Its their life and family at stake. Good luck everyone! I am not GM employed and realize the economy needs WORK.

I was just saying that Michigan would get it since Michigan has huge and devastating unemployment state-wide. It's so sad, but we do need to work on a national strategy for attracting and maintaining the high-skilled manufacture jobs that have made us a world leader. I don't even think anything has been done to stop the incentives for companies to ship jobs overseas.

I think it's a safe bet that Snarly doesn't use the English language in his line of work!

That's tellin' em, shop_gurl! Unfortunately, people like that don't understand about compassion and caring, or they wouldn't be like that in the first place.

better yet snarly.. hopefully one of the out of work "GM workers" get lucky and take YOUR job.. wouldnt that be getting what you deserve! always remember that you should treat others how you want to be treated and being jealous really never gets you to far in life!!

No bog surprise on the decision. I figured they would use Janesville to get a better contract at the other plants. At least people may know now before the SAP ends, as opposed to what GM usually did.

Snarly.. Shame on you!! Hopefully something like this will not happen to you or ones you love and care about! I believe that one reaps what one sows... odviously you dont believe this, or you wouldnt be acting so silly!!! I will say a prayer for you, you need it :(

Some peoples lives must be sooooo bad and lonely that they have to harp on people who are going through a rough time. No matter what happens to me in life, I can always say that I never was a low life slug like that. And if that insults a certain part of our "society", well crawl under a rock and take a dirt nap. Or get drunk again and pass out, probably your typical night out.

I want my Bail out money back!

No if you go back on the logs i was the GM basher so i'm not crying i'm snickering GM is done in janesville get on with you'r life and find another job.

snarly: Sounds like your the one doing all the crying ...

Here we go more crying about the plant not getting the small car deal,So now you can take the money they are offering and for all the people who said GM will not close to bad the small car plant is in Michigan.