When the Fiat-Chrysler deal is done, the government will own less than 10% of Chrysler. Yes, Chrysler has government debt, but that isn't the same as the situation at GM, where the government holds 60% of GM's stock.

I think the control the government will exert over GM going forward is being hugely exagerated. The most direct control the government has taken so far is to oust the ineffective CEO, and force reorganization of the Board of Bystanders, both good decisions in my opinion. People who know GM have been complaining about the Board for years, even as far back as Ross Perot.

Before you start crying for Ford, Remember that they were right there, supporting the bailout GM and Chrysler asked for, because they new it was in their best interest at the time. And when haven't customers been concerned with price? I find it ironic that a Ford dealer would complain about pricing, when Ford has been just as guilty as GM in the past of dumping thousands of cars on Rental companies, which lowers resale prices, and the value customers will pay for new vehicles. I would take what a stealership says to the media with a grain of salt.

Interesting article on Yahoo that makes anyone second guess a purchase of these mini-cars. One simple 3-6mph fender bender and you could be spending $474 to 3,701 to repair. So all the savings on gas gone after one little mishap at woodmans when some idiot didn't see your little car parked and backed into it. You'll come out and find a nice little repair bill.
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Link to the story: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Fenderbend...

Spring Hill doesn't make Saturns. What year are you living in?

It's a go! With sale of Saturn, Janesville will build the new small car.
Spring Hill will go back to building cars for Penske, leaving Janesville for the new product.
Go get your new lunch pails.
GM will issue a statement soon.

Excellent points, kiowamohican and fool. In a recent broadcast on NPR, a point was raised that Ford has to be somewhat careful with how it responds, considering the company supported the bailout. It is both a disturbing and an interesting situation to follow.
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In the aforementioned broadcast, another interesting point was raised: A Ford car dealership owner in Michigan was being interviewed, and he said that they have had a few customers come in and express that although they never would have boughten a Ford before, they now will only buy Fords. He then went on to say that although his dealership is having some experience with that sentiment, a much more common issue with car buyers is price. He explained that many GM dealers are slashing prices to get rid of inventory, etc. He's not sure how they'll be able to compete with them price wise.
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Again, time will tell, but interesting all the same.

Rockstars: When I bought my Denali, the Acadia wasn't out yet! I'd be darn near skinned alive if had bought a Toyota Highlander. Sometimes having these big vehicles isn't always about hauling people. Sometimes it is about hauling people (kids) and all their crap! When the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave line came out, we did look into them. There is no way that interior would have accomodated car seats, backpacks, soccer gear, basketball bags, and the like! It might have a 3rd row, but the only people who are going to fit back there comfortably 3 across are from the show "Little People, Big World!"
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A friend has an Express (2007) and he doesn't get much better (if at all) gas mileage. That thing's a hoss!

"I mean, if you know you can't possibly fail, what are the incentives?" --lakennedy

Therein lies the issue of equal protection. Without due process of law, our federal government is depriving the employees of Ford and its dealerships --along with its stockholders and anyone else dependent upon the success of Ford-- of their property and pursuit of happiness. With a gun to their heads, they are mandated to fork over the fruits of their labors so it can be used to protect and bolster their failed competitor, GM. I am baffled that every American doesn't find this to be a deeply troubling situation.

Lakennedy:
That's the big problem you face here with government involvement. The government will now be competing against companies in the private sector, which opens up a whole can of worms. You do have a similar situation with the USPS. That is basically the reason UPS and FedEx do not get into the 1st class letter delivery. There is simply no way for them to compete against the government who has unlimited pockets, and does not care about profitability (the post office is run perennially at a huge operating loss. While both UPS and Fedex are very successful profitable enterprises). This is unprecedented interference into free markets that could have disastrous effects depending what all the government does with the clout they now have over GM. Will they give tax breaks on GM cars to boost sales, if no one is buying the cars? Will they pass regulation to destroy the competition, and favor their own brand?
They will essentially have the power to roll over Ford, or any of the non-government owned companies. Whether they do, remains to be seen.
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From what I see looking at Ford, I believe it will only be a matter of time before Ford needs a bailout too. Then you would have a situation where the government owns all 3 of the US car companies, and one would think you'd just combine all 3 into one huge government company. Might as well at this point. Everyone seems to think the management and executives of these companies destroyed them. No doubt the government could do a far better job, as they do great work with all the entities that they currently run.

support_local: One thing I found very interesting were the points Brooks' made regarding the impact the government's investment in GM will have on Ford. The point that GM no longer needs to fear liquidation encouraged me to think about the ramifications of that particular thought process...I mean, if you know you can't possibly fail, what are the incentives?

I just had to say, "too poor to be a Republican and too rich to be a Democrat"? Please! I'm a Republican and my family and myself are certainly not rich. We simply want to work hard for ourselves to feed our family and take a few vacations when we can afford it. My husband has worked hard his whole life, he is a Republican also. Lets quit the rich vs poor already, that one is really really old. How about as Americans with the freedom we have give everyone the right to pick whatever car they want and not diss the people if they don't buy so called American. A lot of these so called foreign cars are made right here in the US anyways giving Americans jobs also. Geez!!!! You know one thing that always make me feel better knowing I am a Republican is looking at all the Liberals; who by the way, aren't you the ones that are the more accepting of others and others feelings etc.? Then everytime someone doesn't agree with you all you can do is blast them! You guys are only tolerant when everyone agrees with you, but watch out if you don't!

I saw it prudent to return back to school in 2005. The culture shift of the 18-30 college student amazed me in an absolute frightening way. “American Made” was a joke to those who even cared.

One girl in my Calculus class was doing well where I was finding the class beyond challenging. She was a biology major with ambitions to be a medical doctor. I told her it was difficult to work over 40 hours a week and go to school part-time (this was spring 2008).

She asked where I worked I told her GM. It is not a smart idea to offer to tell people you work for GM in 2009. Not only did she ask me what GM was; keep in mind this was over a year ago, she proceeded to ask me what General Motors made. I told her it was an automobile manufacturer we make full-size pickup trucks here in Fort Wayne. She said; “I don’t know if I have ever seen one.” She drove her parents Audi to school.

In the IPFW (Indiana University-Purdue University-Fort Wayne) parking lots/garages there are a large variety of vehicles. Most of these vehicles are foreign. Few are General Motors vehicles. Of those GM vehicles driven by the 18-30 crowd many appear to be Pontiacs. This is the future car buying generation!

don_diego what about catholics??;)

dmfd: I agree,but to try to shame the shameful,is like teaching them what patriotism is!

The thing with politics these days is there never really is a perfect candidate for the job anymore. Neither side represents Americans. I don't make enough to be a republican and I make to much to be a democrat. When it really comes down to voting for our leaders all were really doing is trying to pick the lesser of two evils. Maybe Obama isn't making the greatest choices but hes doing a heck of alot better then McCain would have done. Oh...and as usual anyone driving Japanese cars should be ashamed of themselves. 52 billion dollars a year goes back to Japan from there auto market. Thats a big step in the wrong direction!

Woodsman--GM built subcompacts are not what the American consumers want! The Japanese have dominated this market segment for decades and have built their companies around it. They have perfected the engineering and marketing of this class of car and have an extremely loyal customer base because of it. There's a generational shift going on here. Years ago it was cool to have posters of the Corvette, Mustang and Z28 hanging on your walls while growing up. Honda and Toyota autos were embarrassing back then. There has been a complete shift with the younger generation. Currently kids have posters of Nissan Skylines, Acura NSXs and Mazda RX8s plastered to their walls. The future of the American auto is bleak. The American companies got too old, fat and content with status quo and is seems to be too late to resolve it. I started driving Japanese compacts in the mid 90's after being completely let down by my GM autos. I can't ever see myself going back--the cars that the Japanese make are just too good......

P.S. I see you found the caps lock key--Good job:)

"I can make an exception if you have 4 or more children but even then you could get a vehicle like a GMC Acadia or Toyota Highlander (the Acadia has a third row and I believe the Highlander does, too)" USE A CONDOM!!!! Much cheaper than a SUV and fewer head aches. We have to get by with less, including less children!

rockstars - I never said I needed a suburban. I drive a truck. And your're right, there are other smaller SUV options, and I'm talking about all of those. The new Government is going to stick it to anyone that drives anything but one of these micro cars, unless GM can be honest, change their ways, and make the SUV's better on mileage, which they are more than capable of.

spark, just because you "need" a large vehicle doesn't mean everyone does. Does anyone really NEED a Suburban? No. I can make an exception if you have 4 or more children but even then you could get a vehicle like a GMC Acadia or Toyota Highlander (the Acadia has a third row and I believe the Highlander does, too). If you need more than that, we'll then I guess it's time for a Chevy Express. No one has a NEED for a huge vehicle like that! Here's a link for you: http://www.chevrolet.com/express/

Zoom: If you're referring to my post then you obviously didn't read it. It had two main points and a sidebar. (1) That the industry as a whole hopefully will satisfy a need for a 4x4, 4 door, that utilizes new technology for fuel consumption in the near future. (2) Whatever GM decides to build in the widely speculated and yet undetermined plant location should be something visionary to the marketplace. Not just another me too, copycat of Honda and Toyota. Build something special and people will line for it or build another rip-off and people will stick with the tried and true product lines at the competition. The sidebar was just that if they select Janesville for the plant then Great!

woodsman - of course there is a demand for these smaller cars. Some demand. There is also demand for larger vehicles, trucks, etc, etc and people shouldn't be penalized because they want that. It's called supply and demand and that's where this Country has massively screwed themselves. Why are Japanese vehicles junk? They have marketed and outlasted our industry. And no, I've never owned a foreign vehicle.The only logic you should be questioning is the United States auto industry.

So your saying that its a bad thing to build what americans want? Evidently some americans want these tin-cans,haven't you been seeing a lot of jap. crap for years! If you build it,they will buy it. I wonder where some peoples logic is sometimes,just like to argue,i think.

janesvillean - Because I need a larger vehicle for my uses, I deserve to get dirty looks because of our crooked Government and auto industry that is very capable of making even an suv or truck get decent gas mileage? Did it ever occur to you that these little cars aren't practical for many? Actually probably not practical for the majority?

Well, if you're the one burning up the last gallon of oil, you'd better expect people to at least give you nasty looks. What a victim complex some people have!

Zoom - Did you read the article explaining what Obama wants to do to those that don't purchase one of these small, so called fuel economy tin cans? You will be penalized by an increase in costs, etc to drive something that may be more practical for use. Basically the Government is telling us what we should drive and because of that, we should all be concerned.

By the way, I also believe GM will never recover, but if the government is determined to dump money down the hole in the short term, I'm all for Janesville getting new jobs.

Woodsman - Real Americans? You're pretty ignorant if you classify those that only agree with the way things are going in the auto industry as that. I'm a real American whose tired of being screwed by the Government and now the auto industry. America is clueless when it comes to building vehicles and marketing them. Wake up.

Reading some of the comments, you would think this new small car is the only thinkg GM is going to make. So you won't buy one...so what? They only plan on having a capacity of 160,000 cars per year anyway. GM's total capacity of all their vehicles is in the millions per year. This car will fill a nich where they currently aren't competitive (Aveo). It isn't meant to be the car that saves GM. There are a lot of people in bid cities with no snow that buy these types of cars. Try to think outside Janesville.

916:You sound like the light is on,but no ones home! Bet you were called sunny when you were a kid,and took it in context that you were bright,news flash "NOT" G.M. WILL get past this,and the real AMERICANS will help! There are all kinds of wars,and this one is about the survival of our country having a middle class,& less dependent of foreign products,isn't it?

creature, I highly doubt they'll put all their eggs in one sub-compact basket. I'm with on the 4x4 in Wisconsin. I think they'll continue to be diverse in their offerings. They just need something to compete a little better with the Toyota/Honda compacts.

lakennedy, thanks for that link. Great article with excellent points, but I sure hope he's wrong. He's suggesting that there hasn't been any culture change within GM, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. For starters, the UAW has finally started to realize they're part of the problem, not just a victim. Let's hope that continues.

GaryPrimer--I agree!! I pray that Janesville is the chosen city!! Even if it fell apart again- it would give us an opportunity to take a deep breath and keep trying to bring in other employers to the area!

Spark.....Don't mind Woodsman--he still having issues finding his caps lock key:) Hint Woodsman--It most likely has a green light on it--push it down once so that the light goes off, then continue typing......The NY Times article was very well written and makes a number of compelling points. The government and GM joining forces will result in a complete disaster. The $50 or so billion that we have already spent will seem like a drop in the bucket when compared to the total amount of taxpayer dollars that will be thrown into this black hole over the next decade.......

creatureinthefreezer - I'm 100% with you on that one. Not to mention those that have families and need a vehicle that can actually carry people.

Living in the Midwest means 4-5 months with the potential of driving in snow up to 12" plus. Don't forget about that fun day on I-90 in February of 08. So for me that means 4 wheel drive and something that is a little beefier so I'm not blown off the road by 18 wheelers or end up in the ditch. These mystery mini-cars are not for me. Can't speak for others but suspect a similar opinion. On the other hand when GM, Ford, Dodge or whomever can put together an affordable 4x4, 4 door, that can operate in bad weather, with electric or hybrid, or ??. I'll be buying. Till then it's business as usual with the truck. As for opening the plant again, Great. Just do it right and make sure the plan is viable for a long term successful product and marketing plan. Don’t be a fireman putting out fires meaning reactionary. Be a visionary and deliver a product that people will flock to.

Woodsman - My point is exactly what I said. The story is about GM and you posted about a war. Kay was stating facts that were leading into what is happening with GM and our current Government. Not a war.

Spark: AND YOUR POINT ISSSSSSSSS??? MONEY! Confused are we.

Theres always the possibilty this new car they build at whatever plant could turn out to be the 21st century chevy vega. History has been repeating itself in odd ways lately.

People, the truth hurts. If GM is in such trouble, then why is the Government wasting even more money and allowing the same situations to reacure? If GM is to come back, the supply and demand of vehicles is going to have to change drastically along with the wages. I'm still reading these stories and people are complaining about the wages. By the sounds of it, the Government is still going to be paying what they did before to build crappy little cars. What? Did we not learn before. Wake up America! Someone made a comment that they should never pay new people a lower wage to build cars? Why not? Those people are our future and need a job just like anyone else. We should all be concerned about the future because the past, crashed and burned.

woodsman - The story is about GM.

KAY: You forgot to say how many billions bush is still spending on the war,(each month)that his dad couldn't win,so the son thought he could. That conflict has gone on for so long,it will never be over,& never is a long time. I know you all's attention is on the G.M. thing,think outside the box & try to think how much money the government wastes every day,this venture is peanuts compared to others!

Kay5 - I couldn't have said it better! You nailed it on the head.

obama has spent 4 times more than Bush did in his 8 years. We will be taxed more after the 2010 elections. WE will have to pay for a health care program. We will have to pay for the Trade and Tax bill. Investment banks needed that money. Just where do you think your pension funds are?
I read the article to mean if they did choose Janesville the workers would return to their previous wages and any New workers would start at a lower rate.
There are too many cars out there on the lots the way it is. Its called supply and demand.
I for one will not buy a computerized tin can to drive on I-90 in. I look for comfort and weight.
Yes, it is now all politics. Just like the casino in Beloit that didn't happen. It just depends on which side gives the most campaign money.
So, we are now stuck with Government Motors and Unemployed Auto Workers.
It will take 25 years to just pay back the first 20 billion. Can't even imagine how long it will be by the time we have to pony up 100 B.
I think its time immature people start voting with their brains instead of emotions.
This is now Obamas recession. It is he that is trying to destroy this country. We won't have to worry about terrorists ruining us economically. He is doing a good job of it himself.
Nuff said.

I'm not sure if this is an appropriate thread to paste this link on, but I found this op-ed in the NYT this week, and thought it was very interesting. It's an editorial regarding the impact of the GM bailout. If you've got the time, follow the link and read it. I'd love to know what others think about it.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/opinio...

Smartypants....what part of new small CAR not already being produced do you not understand? And, I'm not keen to all these bailouts. But, you are kidding yourself if you think your actual money is sitting in GM's bank account (or ever has been) and you're really kidding yourself if you think you will ever see your money returned --even after these loans are repaid! You think the feds are going to issue "us" a rebate check with "UAW bailout repayment" in the memo??!
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What I love though is people who back in Sept, Oct, Nov thought Barack Obama was the second coming and was great, full of hope and could essentially do no wrong. But, fast forward 6 months, and these same cheerleaders are crying foul and saying he doesn't know what he is doing, yadda yadda yadda. You really think a leopard can change its spots in 6 months?!

gwendt: is that you normy??

I laugh at those that call the ones concerned about the direction GM (which has cost us an obscene amount of money) bashers, naysayers and whatever else you come up with. I read these articles and listen to people concerned that the wage is going down to $14 and hour, blah, blah. Guess what? Right now, you don't have sh#& and the plant isn't open here and may never be. You best appreciate what you get if it comes back because there's line a mile long that will. GM is completely clueless in every aspect. Especially marketing and their vision of the future. Do I want them to come back here? Absolutely! But I'm fed up with all the crap and the I want this and I want that. Greed is going to kill you.

The raping of the US Treasury started back in 2001 when Bush took office. Too bad some here can't recognize that.

if the gov pays the workers in wages and benefits what the postal workers get, they will be better off than before.

Yea, I guess I'm ignorant in respect to keeping my tax dollars to myself and not sharing them with a bankrupt company that can't control I'ts spending.

Joker: Yes, Virginia, It has been confirmed.
kiowamohican: There is yes, an oversight commitee. WAS an auto czar. But, in plain english; The Company will decide.
woody: Agreed. Consumer preferance has rotated each decade to what suited them then. Its that time to go small again. Big company's know the flux.
gwendt: Its the later of your choices. LOL.
smartypnts: Its the Economy. All durable goods sales. Community welbeing as a whole. Less a smaller number will have to fork out in tax moneys. Dominoe effects.
mrbread: Your rite! They forgot the big finacial opps' that started this trend in downfall. Bummer eh?
luvmydog:Agreed. Blame game's done. Time to fix it. No matter whom. Fix it. Jobs is the key word here as you say. more community flow of cash/commerce.
garyprimer: Yep 5 years is five years. Many contributing factors could make that less or more years also. Imagine tax payers paid back/ a fully restructured GM. Profitable too. a relocated stamping facility here/ new paint supplier factory/ other suppliers closer to kittering goals. A functional and levelheaded contract. Good, (not grand) wages. A community profiting from the many employed by such entities. The contributions jointly from GM/UAW to the community for needy.(as was). The out reach programs. The sponsored social community events. Enjoyed by all. The support from state government programs because of such contributing factors this janesville community adds to the State, from haveing an entity and suppliers in this community; least I forget the transportations folks too. The overlooked benifits of playing host to such added positive buisness.
Yes, I do believe it would be tantument to provide the naysayers something they can keep complaining about also. They would be lost without something to rip-appart. And We cannot have that. No no! Then? We'd have to bail-out the pharmcutical buisness' also. And the counslors/shrinks. The tavern league. You name it.
Have a grand day folks.

Most analysts are estimating it will cost the tax payer (a generic term, as the money is all being completely borrowed; as the tax payer $$$ is long since exasperated)about $20 billion a year to finance GM's unprofitable business model. Probably no big deal, as we are spending trillions in deficit spending now anyway. What's a few more billion a year?
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The part that will become interesting is what will a government run auto company do to promote sales? Will they offer tax breaks to buy a GM product? They essentially now have the power to roll over any of the other auto companies with the unlimited pockets they now have with government backing. With government ownership, you also now have car czars and countless bureaucrats deciding what dealerships stay and go, across the country. Something that will be a massive political game. Better hope that you cut a big check to the DNC if you want to keep your dealership. Profitability and performance will mean nothing on who stays, and who goes!

In five years GM could very well be right back where it is now, but if that is the case, the American taxpayers will never be back to where we are now after pouring billions of dollars into the company. Janesville will not be better off if it misses out on this chance for economic recovery. At the very least, we will benefit from a few years of regrowth. Things are tough right now, but the worst is yet to come when unemployment runs out and pensioners lose part of their income. After all of the years that Janesville has contributed to the company, it deserves to be a part of the new GM. Anything less is a total betrayal of the dedicated workers who devoted their lives and families to this company.

I'm so confused as to why we would want to have GM back here again. If it was such a great company why are they broke? So you are telling me that GM workers produced a great product, had great leadership and a great union. Then how do you explain why GM is broke. Politicians did it to you? And what you say will fix it is you want part of my paycheck which is a lot less then what you were earning. And then I will be paid back when? Oh, never. I see. And you want me to keep giving you money to build more of the exact same products and the exact same company that put you in this hole. Deal or no deal. Hmmmm.

This article is much ado about nothing. GM has still not confirmed Janesville is a standby plant and I am more doubtful GM will ever come back. And if they want to build that hunk of junk sub-compact everyone is talking about,then I say keep the plant closed.

Why is it ok for Executives to make 10 to 20 million dollars a year & not workers to make 100 thousand a year? The number of billionaires increased astronomically ever since George W was elected President. Do union-bashers REALLY do their own thinking, or just get "drunk" watching FOX News or listening to to Rush Limbaugh & Sean Hannity & their ilk ?

I for one am so sick of everything being blamed on the Republicans. No, they did not get us into this mess by any means,. Did the Democrats? No. Both parties have a lot of blame to go around but one thing I do know, there was a time and place for a union back in the day, and now the union just priced themselves out of a job. I'm not jealous either, because I happen to belong to a union, but lets not fool ourselves, there are plenty of people that would love to have a job for 14.00 an hour to feed thier families. That isn't such a bad thing. This was bound to happen at some point and it did. I'm not just blaming the union either. The company went along with all the demands so they need to take the blame too, but to now have the government involved is a scary thing to me and many others. Even the former people of the USSR are telling us to watch it. It's getting way too close to Socialism and we all know that Socialism doesn't work. We are a capitalistic society, we pick ourselves up and start over, but not with the government owning everthing and having their fingers in everything we do.

Really Jasper, 50 billion to keep autoworkers afloat is bad, but 700 billion from the republicans for banks is good? How soon we forget the works of our great G.W.

To Jim Leute and the Gazette...if your going to base your articles on statements from phantom sources, you will lose credibility with your readers. You will sound like any other cheap tabloid or gossip rag.

Jasper you sound ignorant: To say the rep.party did a good job,WHERE DO YOU THINK ALL THIS MESS CAME FROM? REP'S helping their kind. AND WHAT PARTY IS TRYING TO CLEAN SOME OF THIS CORRUPTION UP! daaaaaaaaaah!!!! Get UR GOING,I'LL BUY TWO,just to help out our country& city!

Quote of source close to the Janesville situation: "You could probably make the case that if (Janesville doesn't) get the small car, we might be better off. We don't know that the American public is going to buy this small car, and in five years we could be right back where we are now."

Who is this person that thinks 5 more years of work is not worth the risk? It sounds to me like the person is too lazy to work for something worth while. I think for the 1200 workers that could get five more years of senority under their belt, it would definitly be worth it. Was he scared of getting his name put in with his comments? Was he drunk, sitting at a bar?

UAW wages with UAW/Government control and small cars... Sounds like more wasted tax dollars to me. I guess I'll be voting straight Republican next time and the time after that so we can axe this government tax payer funded program.