Since all of our homes have lost value in the last year the city should lower our taxes. Fair is fair. Then the city will have less money to spend on teaches. Sure give them their raise because you can't get out of it. Then start laying off teachers because you can't afford to keep all of them. Lots of people with a college degree make a lot less than $50,000 a year and without health benefits.

I goofed! I am not sure where I got that 22 from as far as the number of schools in Beloit. The city district does have, as I correctly wrote, 12 elementary schools, 2 middle schoools, and 1 high school.

SarahB: I think the real question should be how many administrators does Janesville have that are worth their weight?

Ihavealife: Beloit (not including the township area) has 22 schools: 12 elementary schools, 2 middle schools and 1 high school. Its web site says enrollment is 7,000-plus. Number of administrators is 27.

Janesville lists 2 high schools, 3 middle schools and 12 elementary schools. Enrollment tops 10,000. Number of administrators is ???

The so-called "mess" about to unfold in Beloit is that all 27 administrators came together as one group to reject the removal of a seniority clause that is part of their present contract. The Beloit School Board wants that clause removed from the next contract. If I remember correctly, the wage increase for the administrators in the new contract would be about 1.58 percent.

Can anyone tell me how many administrators the Janesville district has?

BeloitGuy...I can't believe the mess in Beloit. Oh wait yes I can.... 2 people making a total mess for the BSD. Sounds like if they get their way maybe some of the unhappy teachers in JSD could move up the ladder and become principals ?? How many schools does Beloit have ??

It doesn't make any sense for the School Board to freeze teachers pay in exchange for no lay offs....its a 2 year contract and next year, due to a possible declining enrollment, the School Board may need to lay off a number of teachers. I do hope that everyone appreciates what all teachers and school district employees do for our children! I surely do appreciate all school district employees!

Sorry - Wrong article.

So much for spell check - "perpetrate"

futureteacher - You make me laugh; however, I suggest you get over yourself. While I appreciate that you "feel" for me and my children (although I do question the maturity level of a person who feels the need to attack another person through their children), I assure you there is no need to do so. May I suggest that you take a class in reading comprehension so you learn to understand what people have written and one in constructive criticism so you learn how to critique ideas and not attack people? If you have already done so, maybe a refresher course would be in order. In all honesty, it is statements like yours that help perpetuate the negative feelings toward teachers that are so pervasive in this community. Congratulations, you now have become part of the problem. Thank goodness that I am intelligent enough to understand that someone's "worth" and "value" is not determined by their income level.

AMMFRM - Let's just say that anyone with an administrative job in the school district (principal or central office) is walking on egg shells right now. Some might even say they walked a little too hard on those egg shells for others liking.

To the diplomat - I respectfully disagree. Ten to twenty years ago teacher salarys were more comparable in the marketplace. I think it's mostly the QEO. Many districts throughout the nation have gone to fair pay with starting salaries at 40,000, that's 7,000 more per year than Janesville. Go to the NEA website to learn more.

Momof5: sorry, my husband just corrected my on Mrs. Fanta...again disregard my earlier post.

Momof5: Mrs. Fanta passed away.

Shaggy: Unprovoked attack. Sorry. Guess my comment should have been along the lines of: Please explain how your comment relates to this story.

Shaggy: I am sure that when they hear gross overgeneralizations like that, coming from someone like you in class, they probably were.

One thing I don't miss about school, the teachers always thinking they are right.

Justsome1here- Sports figures and corporate “bonus reaping” folks are overpaid to a point of stupidity. Your comments make you sound like you don’t have a priority in investing in our future or our children’s. I feel for you, moreover, your children. You are part of the problem.

Thediplomat- Your opinion that “they knew what they were getting into” is offensive and all together wrong. You are a large part of the problem, and a large one here in our community. You do not get the value of education and the desire for good parents to want quality education and the best for their kids. I feel really sorry for you and your children. You are selfish and do not understand the VALUE of you educators.

Shagcarpet you are comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps there is another thread you can hijack.

MOCO represents those of us who do “get it” and is 100% correct in this thread.

YICare… right on!

I am in my forties and have a successful business, no mortgage, and no debt. I chose to return to college for my second and third degrees in education. This is to make a positive difference and contribution in society by teaching. It is too bad that there are people who need to scrutinize the most important aspect of our society’s future. Shame on you.

oh do share

Wait until you see the mess that is about to unfold in Beloit......

YICare: Great article. It really is too bad that a handful of people on this blog won't appreciate it! Thanks for posting it.

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Shagcarpet: Yes, being a soldier is a huge responsibility and is also very important. I would also agree that soldiers are very under appreciated by some people in this country.

What if our soldiers didn't have the education that they received prior to enlisting? Can you imagine how weak our country would be? You see, no matter what profession you look at the person performing that job could not do so without having been taught by a teacher at some point in their life.

Teaching provides the base for people to excel into these other professions. This is why in my opinion it is more valuable than others. They just want some recognition, respect and a fair wage. How we determine what is fair seems to be a sticking point that will be difficult to get past.

thediplomat, I couldn't agree more.

Check out http://www.jamievollmer.com/burden.html
if you're wondering what it entails to be a teacher today, and how the profession has changed in the past 100 years. Then question the value of a teacher's worth.

MOC0428,

I was not crying about paying teachers at all. My point is that teachers knew what they were getting into before they decided to get the degree to become one. If you know already what you are getting into, then complaining about it is futile. When I did my undergrad, there were plenty of career choices I could have made. There were other careers that would have been more enjoyable than the one I am in now, but I made the decision that I wanted to live a certain lifestyle and provide that lifestyle to my future children. To ensure that, I made sure to major in something that had a pay level that would support that lifestyle. Teachers make a choice to sacrifice pay for something they love and believe in. Complaining about that sacrifice (the pay and the extra hours) is unjustified since they knew the terms before they decided to become one.

Does anyone have any idea on what the teachers are going to request in the next budget? Is it possible that they, as a group, will publicly acknowledge the current recession as part of their request?

Shaggy - I'd love to see you be an art or a health teacher. Let's look at their day, shall we? Art teachers (on the secondary level) usually teach a different course every hour - sometimes more than one in a single hour. They often get kids who think art is a "blow-off" class and are just there because they have to be somewhere. They also get some genuinely interested, talented students who, I'm sure, are a pleasure. Still - many hours spent helping students, motivating students, preparing projects, grading, making sure the kiln is working right long after school is out...I think you get the picture.

---

Health - you get EVERYBODY in health. Now - throw in the kids who think they know it all already (teenagers - that is about 80%) and combine that with the parents who want to know every word you're going to say so that their precious little babies won't hear about s--e--x. I think you're getting the picture....

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So the question returns to : Are teachers underpaid? Objectively, it would appear the data would support that assertion. When comparing salaries of professionals with college degrees, teachers do come out on the low end of the scale. In reality this can be traced back to two primary factors. First - in the old days, the teacher was quite often female and the "second earner" of the family. A large wage was not required. For a woman in the 1920's , being a teacher was about as well-paid as could be found. So "well-paid" became relative. Second: Teachers are, essentially, public servants. The public sector usually pays less than the private. The trade off has traditionally been good benefits (although those are now eroding as well) and job security (which some want to take away as well). So compared to their public-employee peers (Protective services, civil servants, etc...) the pay is probably pretty fair. Comparing to the private sector is apples to oranges.

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And there is the crux of my argument. Teachers are being asked to suffer the burdens of the private sector without being able to reap the benefits. Fact is they just don't compare that well.

A soldier who is fighting for our country and keeps us alive has a direct and future impact. Do you think they are appreciated? They make probably less than a teacher and risk their life everyday for our country. I mean tell me how hard does an art and health teacher really have it?

How come this same discussion is never focused on the increased numbers of administrators and how much they are paid. It seems to me that those who come into direct contact with students should be paid more than those who are not. The only way to get rid of the unions is to fire all the Administrators and give the teachers the ability to hire and fire those that don't help them in educating the children.

justsomeonehere: It's been awhile since we chatted:)

I said that they should be paid fairly because I don't think they are. If you read down a bit further I talked about getting rid of the unions and finding a better way to pay teachers but I don't see that happening in the near future. There would need to be a lot of work done to get to that point. I just do not understand how you can think ~30K a year is fair for the amount and type of work they do.

Shagcarpet: How many of those jobs have a direct impact on our future 20 years from now? If we followed what you all suggest then the good teachers that we want teaching our children will leave. What do you think that will leave us with? Do you want the teachers that just barely made it through college or one that really put themselves into what they were learning? There will be more teachers out there that will be doing the job for the 2.5 months off a year not because they want to impact our youth.

thediplomat: Have you read what is on this blog??? If you understood the value that a teacher provides to society you would not cry about the small amount of money that goes towards paying them. These people are not rich nor will they ever be, not on~50K a year. They deal was large amounts of crap from students and parents on a daily basis that teachers never had to do when I was in school and that was only 16 years ago. I never heard anyone in the 13 years I attended tell a teacher to F-Off. I also never saw cell phones in school, maybe because they were too new and large back in the day. Kids also never brought guns to school. We are asking our teachers today to do much more than they had to do years ago. A starting pay in the low 30's is not acceptable for this type of work.

MOC0428,

I still stand by my statement that griping about pay in a job that is historically low is ridiculous, however I am curious on how teachers feel unappreciated. I am not trying to take a shot at you and am genuinely curious on why they feel unappreciated? Since you are saying most of the griping is about being unappreciated and not underpaid, I am assuming that you are not going to mention that they should be paid more.

rkkraa: that means that they aren't doing their job (parents). It was said on another thread that the best thing a parent can teach a child is to not need parents at all. Very wise words. My niece is 20 and can't make a doctor's appointment for herself, but yet is a junior in college and will be entering pharmacy school at the U this fall. She bought a Coach bag, and lost the receipt. She was nearly panic striken because she didn't know what to do. DUH! Call the store and ask what their policy is! Her parents are good strong people. But, they certrainly didn't do her any favors by holding her hand while she was crossing the street--last weekend! (joking)

Then again, some parents are overly involved.

I have not read a blog since yesterday and I have one comment to make. If this has already been said I am sorry. As a para in the district I believe if more parents did their jobs the teachers jobs would not be as stressed and complicated as they are.

It infuriates me what these athletes make. I love Brett Favre,, maybe even more than Deanna (haha), but he is NOT worth 11 million dollars a year! Side note: Brett's trade, by training, is teaching....special education to be exact. If all these athletes donated 1/10 of the salaries to schools, we wouldn't be discussing freezes and budget cuts.

Speaking of teachers molding the future and impacting lives they don't even know: Does anyone know how Anita Fanta is doing??

There are lots of people working in jobs where they are unappreciated. Welcome to capitalism.

Sorry - "Should someone you" should read "Should someone who".

futureteacher and MOC0428 - You say that teachers should be paid what they are worth but how is that worth determined? Should they be paid more than the NBA player that only has a high school education but is paid millions to dribble a ball up and down the court? Should they be paid more than a person in the private sector making comparable salary with the same education? Should worth be based on years of seniority or should it be based on performance? MOC0428 you stated "The only problem with that idea, especially in this community, is that many people don't think our teachers are worth anything. " That is not an accurate statement. More accurately would be that teachers think they are worth more than what the community is ABLE to pay them. There in lies the problem. Worth is subjective and is based on many things. Some have compared administrator salaries to those of teachers, but yet do not consider the education that goes along with some of that pay. Should someone who attains a PhD ALWAYS be paid less than someone who has an AD, BS or Masters degree? Should someone you has a Masters ALWAYS be paid more than someone who has an AD? I guess it depends on your perspective and what those job duties are.

right on moco!!!

thediplomat: Most, not all, of the griping is related to them being unappreciated not underpaid. Our community treats them like crap and I can't figure out why. Is it the factory mentality in this city, you know, the one that thinks everybody should be treated equally?? You're right they didn't go into the profession to get rich, but I really don't think any of the wages they make put them into that "rich" category. My wife teaches in the district and I work in the private sector. It took me far less time to surpass her wage with less time at my company than she has in teaching. Oh and I only have a 2 year degree, not a 4 year + 20 some credits. Where I'm going with this is that we do well but by no means are we rich. We only do well because I make more money than her for a far less valuable job in our world. What I do does not shape the future of our world but what our unappreciated teachers do has a significant impact on our world. If you can’t see the importance of their job in our society then I feel sorry for you. Pay them accordingly and as I said before treat them with respect.

GO JANESVILLE TEACHERS KEEP ON KEEPING ON

thediplomat, if thats the case than NOBODY should gripe about what they make. Which means that that nobody should gripe about what others make. I APPRECIATE THE TEACHERS AND HOPE THEY GET THERE RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I THINK THEY DESERVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I THINK THEY DO A GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The "IT'S NOT FAIR" statement is never valid. Every teach knew that being a teacher meant that would not be paid well. If you want more money, you should have gone to school to be a medical doctor. Teachers should never gripe about their pay not being fair. It wasn't like you were tricked into becoming one.

MOCO, in my opinion your last post may be the most intelligent one on this thread!

AGAIN "IT'S NOT FAIR" it seems that this is the focus on this blog.I know there are some that are saying that I am putting words in there mouth, so I will reword the it's not fair comment. I dont make that much why should they? or I didnt get a raise why should they? I do hope that that is more accurate....

moco dont answer that. I did not read the idiotic comment that u responded to. moco you are 100% right

hey moco are u a teacher?

svrwthr: I agree, get rid of the unions. In my opinion many of the good teachers would like to see it disappear as well. Get rid of tenure also, I believe the good teachers could care less about that as well.

The only problem with that idea, especially in this community, is that many people don't think our teachers are worth anything. That being said what sort of tool would they have to bargain there wages and benefits? I suppose you could look at how good a job a teacher does but how everyone does in their class is not always a direct reflection of their teaching ability. Many kids don't care no matter how much you give them, many parents (sad but true) don't care. Many parents out there will defend their child and accuse the teacher or district of screwing up. There would have to be a large number of things set in place before you'll ever see the teachers unions disappear.

I found articles to support my statistics. The Aug 24, 2008 edition of the Gazette shows district employment in 1978 of 720 employees and in 2008 of 1515 employees. An article on Aug 14, 1985 indicates that enrollment in 1974 was 13,656 students. Enrollment dropped to 9928 by 1984 as birth rates declined. Current enrollment according to the district website is 10429. The statistics back up my statements.

www.dpi.wi.gov./

So when the general public sees 4-6% salary increases, so should the teachers, right? (Of course that didn't happen in the 90's and earlier this decade....)

lovemy... Go to the DPI site it will open yours and others eyes to what this district really needs to change.Also look at schools around us,real interesting! That could be why downtown always want the teachers to give up wages and perks and not them.www.dpi.wi.gov./

Thanks for noticing my comment on the employees in the school system. My source was a Gazette article a few months ago highlighting employment changes in Janesville in the last few decades. Perhaps a Gazette staffer could pull out the exact stats. My numbers and dates probably aren't exact but point out the trend. The local district can't be blamed for all of it since a lot would be state mandates. I would like to see our state representatives who also claim to work for us justify the mandates we all pay for and produce questionable results. Recent articles in the paper have told us about all the social workers employed by our school system. It even includes one for "older parents".

Riche95 wrote "One other point - the Janesville School District has double the number of employees as 20 years ago with no increase in enrollment. What do they all do for a living?"
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This is a fascinating stat. I hope it's not true, but could be. Where can we see the source for this ?

If the general public is seeing wage freezes at their places of work, so should the teachers. Just one of the crappy side effects of a recession.

Doesn't our country spend the most money per student, of any industrialized nation, on education? Yet, we have the worst test scores. Seems there is something wrong with this system.

. . . so many posts from blissful people. Teachers make our future and our children's future. Many of your posts reflect a blissful (read into it-ignorant) life where priority is so selfishly misplaced that you seem to overlook the future for our city and children. My kids deserve the best education money can buy. Our city's children deserve a future outside of the boo-who-for-me factory attitude that seems to dominate these forums. The answer to our city's problems and economy is in education. Wake up! or please move so you don't stand in the way of change and progress. Educators should not have any seniority within the district. They should be judged upon their ability and paid accordingly. Teachers, both good and bad, impact people lives forever. Let them earn what they deserve individually.

Get rid of the Unions and we wouldn't have to worry about contracts, over paying for lousy service (from a few), higher costs to the consumer (tax payers). Get your attention? Teachers are not GM workers but they still use and abuse that Union to get a pay raise and no decreases in benefits even in struggling times (same goes for most every union worker).
Teachers do deserve an increase but so does every Tom, Dick and Harriet out there but teachers should not push the boundaries of affordability of the product or they may find a school closing or cutting of jobs. Are you willing to be let go for a small raise and same benefits or are you willing to keep your job by paying a few bucks a week for benefits and no pay increase for a year?
Union workers do not give they only take and that union attitude shuttered many doors countrywide because of their crybaby attitudes of you can't make us pay for insurance, you must pay us more or we go on strike. Teachers please don't do the same. You are actually needed but there are times that sacrifices must be made and this year, and possibly next, are those times. You will eventually be rewarded.
Plant rats and other union workers don't even reply to what good a union is because I can come up with 2 bad things for every one of your 'good'.

markr: Most of the people here seem to think that everyone should be equal. If that means paying teachers or other professions less for that matter, they will be happy. Until everyone has crappy pay and benefits they will complain.

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The world is not fair and it never will be!

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This is the most important profession that exists. Every person that can balance a checkbook, read, write or basically function normally in this world should be thanking a teacher. If you were home schooled thank your parents, but in the end you were taught by someone. Without these people doing what they do we would not be as great a country as we are. As was stated earlier, our education system gives EVERYONE a chance to become a smarter person that will then have the abilities to have a greater impact in this world. Not all countries work this way. Pay them what they are worth but more importantly, quit disrespecting them!

To be fair, our purchases pay everyone's salary, just as our taxes pay the salaries of federal and state employees. It seems as though the debate centers around one of the most important cogs in our society, teachers. Since the purchases I make, like the taxes I pay go towards salaries amongst other things. I ask all posters here to consider if it is the case, then I ought to be strongly opinionated about doctor salaries? Waitress salaries? really, everyones salaries. Then oughtn't I too get to negotiate those salaries in the public forum as we do here?

As a youngster, I attended a parochial school for my first three years, and then public schools for the rest of my school years. Like everyone else, I guess, I encountered both good and bad teachers along the way. But the learning environment in the public schools was, for me, so much more conducive to success that there is no comparison. When I moved to the public schools, I learned for the first time that you could use math to add and subtract any objects at all, not just religious stuff. (In the parochial schools, the math problems went like this: Mary had three bibles at home, and her loving preacher gave her two more. How many bibles does Mary have now? -- The reading lessons were always about church and God. The science classes were non-existent.) Upon moving into the public school system, my indoctrination ended, and my education was free to begin. If parochial school (and let's be honest--nearly all home schooling is done for purposes of religion) works for you and your children, wonderful. But to bash public education as inferior or teachers as undeserving is just plain dishonest. These teachers seem to me to be very devoted to your children. From the tone of some of these posts, I wonder if all of you parents are as devoted to your children as their teachers are. I think many of you are either jealous of someone else being deserving of more, or else you are trying to get even for something that went wrong for you in school.

I get it now. No one IS listening. Did anyone here learn to add 2 and 2? or maybe the alphabet? Wow,teachers really DO go un noticed,dont they?

yeah when i was in school a couple years ago i remember hearing teachers complaining about their salaries all the time, what a joke, they should be happy that they get paid that much in the first place

TechMasterFlex: Care to share his phone number with me? (LOL!!)

I know a guy who is a teacher and he donates a ton of money to charity because he cant spend it fast enough. During the summer, when he does nothing, he rolls around in his money.

Is no one listening? You cannot put a price on education or knowledge ! I am 35 yrs old and have been to reg. school,tech. school and a big college. These teachers obviously dont take the job for money. Most love to teach ! Why dont we weed out the old cronies that make school really suck,keep the ones that ACTUALLY care and want to be there,and PAY THEM !

howard: The Fund 10 balance fluctuates like the recent snow cover. Yes, $30M is a pretty good estimate. My sources say that $8M to $10M comes from the insurance over-estimate the past several years. Money that I believe the JSD has deliberately not paid to the teachers as part of the QEO LAW. I know we will argue this to death, but I believe the JSD owes part of this, not all, to the teachers. Only because this was bargained under the QEO law which forces us to bargain as a package. We cannot bargain salary separate from insurance benefits.

Board member Murray speaks just like most big time union members (remember the UAW?). Freeze or cut new and younger employees to protect the "haves" with their seniority and higher pay. Once upon a time unions believed in shared sacrafice - but that was then. They are now just another advocate for the status quo that benefits those with seniority. One other point - the Janesville School District has double the number of employees as 20 years ago with no increase in enrollment. What do they all do for a living?

The previous comment about public schools being "the great equalizer" should have stated that public schools are our "closest thing we have to being an equalizer in our society". What I mean here is that because of public schools, children born into poverty can achieve greatness in this country. I wonder if that is the case in these other "industrialized counties" the linked article writes about.

Yes,teachers have had to take on some parental tasks such as, breakfast or after school clubs or kids with behavior issues.It is just one more reason to pay these people more money! Some parents have to go to work at awful early morning hours and need their kids to be taken care of.Some have kids with a.d.d. or adhd and so on ! If it were easy or legal, im sure some parents would keep their kids home. Let's start giving these teachers the reward they so deserve !( no,Im not a teacher,nor would I want to be) They have a special talent...most of them !

Just another point to add here related to caddyshack243's post, I have heard in the past the JSD refer to this Fund 10 as a "rainy day" fund. Well, we must live in a desert here in Janesville. I am not sure exactly how much of our tax money is in the "rainy day" fund but I believe I heard upwards of around $30 million. Can anyone verify that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

The "responsibilities" being "added" to the schools are not the teachers nor school districts fault. I'm not trying to be a jerk or imply anything but how are public schools the great equalizer?

Katy: While I am not in teaching “for the money”, the money sure helps. Why, just the other day I went to Sentry to get some groceries. I told them times were tough and they should help me out by giving me a deal on food. Alas, they insisted that they did not have to operate at a loss just to accommodate me. They claimed that they had bills to pay also. Huh. Go figure.
Now, all sarcasm aside, let us expand on the insurance issue. This is old news for some of us, and a very volatile issue for most. Under the QEO law, teachers must accept an offer from a school district if the “Total Package Salary and Benefits” is a 3.8% increase. As you stated, those numbers are iffy at times due to a school district’s calculations for insurance. BUT, it is the law. Now, in Janesville, the school district is “self insured”. This means that the district puts money in an account and pays medical bills from there. The only insurance company involved in JSD is a catastrophe policy which has a $1,000,000 deductible. This prevents me from draining the entire account dry when I get my brain transplant in a couple of years.
Now, here is the “fightin’ words” part: The JSD has consistently over-budgeted the insurance fund. So, in fact, the JSD has paid more money to the Benefits part of the “Total Package Salary and Benefits” for teachers than the JSD has actually spent on insurance claims. This automatically means less money for salaries. The JSD is running its own insurance company which is turning a multi-million dollar profit annually. The insurance analysts, hired by JSD, who spoke at a school board meeting last year, could not explain why the JSD is making such a profit off of these insurance funds. I believe they used something like “this has been a gold mine for years”. So, for the taxpayer, you are contributing your taxes to pay for our “Total Package” which again, is 3.8% or less according to the QEO LAW. However, the JSD is not spending the money on the teacher contract mandated by LAW. The JSD continues to bank money in the infamous Fund 10. Janesville’s Fund 10 continues to grow and remains one of the largest in the state.

While I agree with the sentiment of a previous poster about how we need to value teachers here more as other industrialized countries do to their teachers, I do not agree that our educational system is, or ever was, in a "downward trend". Over the last 30 or so years an ever increasing amount of responsibilities have been added to schools (mostly parental responsibilities). Today, more than ever, public schools are the great equalizer in our American society.

Katy,
One would think that if you didn't use the benefit or wanted to opt out you could get compensated by the district right? Wrong. Janesville does not compensate a person for not taking the insurance. You use it or lose it.

This morning Whythink posted that he was not in teaching for the money, but needed the good wage and benefits, "not that i take any from the district because my wife's are better."

The salary and benefits package are usually set in a contract. If you opt out of district provided benefits, like health insurance, one gets "cash in lieu of benefits." This is because the contract of, say, 4% increase includes salary plus benefits. If the benefits increase that year is inordinately high (8%), then the actual realized salary increase will be lower (lets say 2%), depending on how the math works out. In most cases, the cash in lieu arrangement costs the district less than providing the actual insurance to the employee. It could be half as much.

So, Whythink, how is it that you don't take benefits from the district? You are compensated in some way, shape or form for these benefits, probably in the thousands of dollars range.

New to this one but going to comment anyway. I think teachers need to be the highest paid people in the world ! Really,where would we all be without those who have taught us? Ok, some teachers are too old and mean and need to go but,those that really enjoy what they are doing and do it well need to be paid the highest amount possible !Not only do they teach our children, they also have to put UP with our children.That can be trying !

If you want to know what everyone makes in this district go to www.dpi.wi.gov/ .On the top is data when the page comes up go school staff and salary data.Teachers earn every penny of their pay checks !!! Check out the administrative salary and perks they get.We could cut a lot of fat in that area.It's time we show the teachers how Thankful we are for what they do for our kids !!! CUT DOWNTOWN !!!!!

Rustycal, sincerely, thank you for being a teacher. I, for one, will never question the value of an education. In my opinion, it is nearly priceless. Perhaps one day, other people will realize that the reason why other industrialized nations have passed us in nearly every subject, is because we as a country value teachers and education far less than a lot of countries. Until we recognize that we contiune this downward trend in education.

"I have always thought that when people know they are doing a good job they have no reason to defend themselves, because they know they are. Well Rusty you just made me wonder what you think of the job you do. I hope you do not teach based on the attitude you have displayed here. Our kids deserve someone a little more even tempered. BY Curtain Call"

Curtain, please don't assume to know anything about me as a teacher or person. Exactly what "attitude" did I display? Don't pretend for a second that my interactions with my students are anything near what they are with people on her spewing venom and false information.
I have always thought that when people make accusations about people they know nothing about, they are showing their ignorance and have run out of valid arguments. Despite your comments on here, I will NOT presume to know anything about you personally or professionally.

I would like to say a very special thank you to all of the teachers, administration, aides, cooks, custodians and everyone who works together to educate children.

Some salary info concerning the average teacher's salary. Remember, this is for another district.

---I have been a teacher for 10 years.
---I have a B.S. + 28 credits(a thesis away from my Masters in Education).
---I coach three varsity level sports.
---I work lunch duty(give up my own lunch to supervise the kids for which I am paid).
---I sub every opportunity that I get.
---I taught summer school for 6 weeks(5 hours a day) last summer.
---I had to take a district required in service that was 1 week in August/8 hrs a day that we were paid $200 for.
---I drive in to school every weekday during the summer to open the gym/weight room for interested athletes(This is voluntary.)
---My gross was 52,155 this year. I just want you to understand some of the extra duties required to get to that supposed $51,000 average. I am extremely happy with my job and what I am paid. I am thankful for it every day and I feel for all of those losing their jobs. No complaints, but please don't tell me that teachers average $51,000 just for their 8 hour teaching day.
Btw, we do not have the choice of taking checks over the summer in my district for what it's worth.

CurtainCall,
You are correct, I would be surprised if I knew who you were, considering this is an anonymous blog. My question is still on the table, at what level of income people do you compare the teachers too? You said you make similar money to teachers, which I am assuming you are using the average stated in the article. So therefore you are now a short step above the teachers because you have better insurance. Sounds to me like you are entitled to a better life than the teacher? Why is that?
Direct quote from you, "They need to pay for more of their health benefits. Just like everyone else." Except you. Hence your next entry, "I can guarantee you that my health insurance is as good as if not better than yours." Good work.

I cannot believe that the Janesville Gazette is once again MISLEADING the public as they did with GM..
"The average salary for Janesville public school teachers this year is $51,613."
Does this include benefits?? Most likely so..Most teachers I know are are making around $35 - $40 K..
and if that is so much money, why do the majority of teachers have 2nd jobs AND work in the summer???
They certainly are not getting rich!

Teaching is not a part-time job. They put in countless hours outside of the classroom. Many of them are the primary income earners in the households. Teachers never expected to be rich when they took the job. How many other college educated professionals regularly have second, even third jobs to make ends meet? Support your children's teachers!

Audiologists

Annual median income: $57,779**

Projected employment in 2016: 13,000

Increase between 2006 and 2016: 10 percent
Education and training. Individuals must have at least a master’s degree in audiology to qualify for a job. However, a first professional or doctoral degree is becoming more common.
.
Conservation scientists

Annual median income: $56,150*

Projected employment in 2016: 21,000

Increase between 2006 and 2016: 5 percent
.
Conservation scientists generally have at least a bachelor’s degree in fields such as ecology, natural resource management, agriculture, biology, or environmental science. A master’s degree or Ph.D. is usually required for teaching and research positions.
.
Urban and regional planners

Annual median income: $53,967**

Projected employment in 2016: 39,000

Increase between 2006 and 2016: 15 percent

Education and training. Most entry-level jobs in Federal, State, and local governments require a master’s degree from an accredited program in urban or regional planning or a related field, such as urban design or geography.
.
www.bls.gov

It is not my intent to mislead only to add to the debate, if I did mislead anyone I apologize. As I noted in my post, I was only talking about the school portion of property taxes, not the entire property tax bill.
David Parr

People be careful, karma is a bitch. One day it may be you who loses their job, home, healthcare. Once it's you, let's see how much you brag. There are alot of people now who do not care whether or not they get a pay raise or have to pay into their health insurance just so they can keep their jobs. Don't get too comfortable, no job is secure with the economy the way it is. It's really sad to see how many people are losing their jobs and I would not wish it on anyone.

Smart enough to get one lol

Just because you have a college degree does not mean you are any smarter than the someone who doesn't have a degree.

You I believe are the one who is what again??? The one NOT crying about how much they make

OMG The negotiations haven't even started. Doesn't the QEO (state law) ensure that teachers get a minimal raise every year? Aren't you all arguing for no reason? Didn't the benefits thing come to the light when the District finally admited to making money off the benefits? Teachers don't get awesome raises when the economy is great, but they even out with the QEO when the economy is bad. GO GET A COLLEGE DEGREE AND THEN ARGUE

On no not hardly. I have no reason to complain. We get excellent health benefits are compensated nicely. You I believe are the one who is what again???

I am so sick and tired of people thinking they are entitled to everything just because they are a teacher, just because they are a politician, just because they work for the city, just because..etc, etc.....None of you are God, none of you are better than the next person. Everyone is hurting these days, what makes YOU immune to this???

Dear Dr. Parr:

First of all congrats on being elected as JEA President. I have enjoyed our discussions in the past and know that we can work together. I do think that your property tax claim is a little bit misleading. I was able to go back to 1996 on any property that I own and believe me, I am paying more actual dollars now than I did back then.

I can only assume that you might be referring to the mill rate which might have gone down but because of the increase in property values (except for this year of course) the net tax is much more now than it was in 1996.

The other possibility is that you are comparing property tax rates before the change in school funding was made in 1993 with the rates of today. That would be unfair as the legislature decided to reduce property taxes and shift it to income and sales taxes when the 2/3rd commitment was made (or supposed to be made anyway).

Not trying to start an argument - but I do think it is important "paint the entire picture".

I appreciate you signing your name as I always do.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

According to the US Census Bureau, a person holding a bachelor’s degree earned an average of $56,788 in 2006. I hold a degree and earn below that figure. I guess I should be on the Gazette complaining to everyone too. I am sure social workers and clergy, who also hold degrees, are making below that too. We don't hear them complaining.

so curtaincall.. you are complaining on behalf of your company. I see now.

why teach?? Things you have and I don't . Hello??
I can guarantee you that my health insurance is as good as if not better than yours. But it costs my company a fortune as it does the school district. AS far as pay?? We are pretty evenly matched. So do not speak to me as though you know me. You might be surprised.

Curtaincall,
How about if we make teachers pay more for insurance and not give them a pay raise. Makes sense since people in the community are unemployed and paying for their own insurance. There are people in this community that make $10,000 and ride the bus, so according to your analagy, and those of many others on this post, the teachers should be on the same level. No matter what their education level is or what other schools in the area of comparable size are paying. The analagy that because some people are hurting, everyone should, is ignorant. Who should we be comparing these teachers to? People on welfare, people who make 40,000 and pay insurance, or people who make 100,000 and don't have a worry in the world?
I feel no remorse towards nurses, doctors, police, firefighters because they make more money than I do. I think they get what they deserve for the hard work they have put in to get where they are today. People that are constantly criticizing teachers need to re-evaluate your own lives and be thankful for what you have and not pissed because of the things you don't and someone else does.

dlrider2002, C`mon man! You can`t come on here and give facts and be rational! It won`t fly with some of these posters!

Oh the heck with it your all right. Some are suffering with the economy so ALL SHOULD SUFFER AS WELL! While we are at it lets stop raises for every job in town and if they have benifits CHARGE EM MORE!!!! This was we can all be misserable sacks of crap at the same time blogging to this pathetics post with the same 20 people regeritating the same crap everyday(this includes me too... but I am just bored)fueling the fire. God Bless America

You know what sluggo are we suppose to include their living costs in their wages now? They of course have bills just like anyone else, which quite a few who are unemployed and still have the same bills they did a year ago. They of course pay taxes like anyone else. What is your point? We all do what you mentioned. Would that not be nice if we did not have to pay taxes at all,, but whoops then really who would pay the teachers?

Does that figure in foreclosures in the last 12 months?

Pat-the 51,000.00 is over 12 months not 9. They either get a lump sum in June for the summer months or continue on with their monthly pay.

pat good job with the calculator. Now figure it at 12 months not 9(because I heard thats what most teachers do..I heard tings)and estimate taxes.... maybe 1800 to 1900 after taxes
minus electric, phone,rent or house payment and maybe kids, groceries,incidentals, car payment.... YOUR RIGHT THEY ARE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is my understanding that the average teacher makes $42,000 a year not $51,613. The higher number reflects additional duties such as: summer school and/or coaching and/or activities supervision and/or leadership pay and/or curriculum pay and/or Athletic director pay or any other extra duty. The teachers making this $51,613 are working 12 months a year, not the 9 that people imagine. Granted it is a lot of money compared to the rest of Janesville’s workforce, though not a lot when you compare it to other professionals with Master degrees. I also empathize with the Janesville taxpayer, I am after all am one of them. Do you realize that you actually pay less in property taxes for schools in Janesville than you did 15 years ago? That is in real dollars not inflationary adjusted dollars. That fact invalidates your arguments that your taxes are going up due to teacher salaries. So now the question is why the anger directed at teachers, if property taxes are lower in actual dollars than they were 15 years ago?
David Parr JEA President

Benefits are huge. Anyone who is fortunate enough to have health benefits in this day and age is very lucky. The starting base pay is not including the cost of their benefits. They have very nice insurance that through the years they have paid very little for. I think that is where the change has to be made. They need to pay for more of their health benefits. Just like everyone else.

Teachers on here are not complaining about salaries! Everyone else is complaining about the teachers salaries.

If you take the avg. starting pay in the J.S.D. and divide it by that 9 months, its 3702.00 before taxes and they still get their benefits. Now the higher end the 51,670 divide by 9 is 5741. per month before taxes and with benefits. Holy smokes. There are teachers in the district that make quite a bit more than that. They think need a raise in this economy , bringing in what they do a month.. The unemployed would love to work 9 months and bring in that much a month. WOW.

If then they are only getting paid for 9 months. They have nothing to complain about. Thats a nice salary for only working 3/4 of the year.

People who work seasonal jobs learn to budget quickly.

Teachers are unemployed for the summer months. If you would like them to work for 12 months you would have to pay them accordingly!

pat,
Some school districts allow (or sometimes force, I believe) teachers to be paid FOR their contracted days over the entire year. Saying that they get paid "for year round" (sic) would make most people infer that they earn money for performing no work.
To say that a teacher lives nine months off of twelve months of wages implies that they either aren't living for the remaining three months, are living off of someone else, or that they have another job to live off of the remaining three months.
I get the impression that you are either confused or attempting to confuse others in order to make some sort of point against teachers.

think about it budget. Maybe thats why many people are in such a rough spot. Never learned to budget.

take 9 months of my salary and live off for a year? I could do it with careful budgeting. But teachers live 9 months off of 12 months of wages if they chose to be paid over 9 months instead of 12. My son's teacher chose to be paid over 12 months instead of 9. She gets less a month but still has income during the summer. It's how ever they teachers choose to get paid.

I would take nine months and live off it for a year if I could have the summer off.

pat: Take nine months of your wage and live off of that for a year!

Mooser, I can see your teachers did a great job teaching you how to spell.

Those teachers are worth every penny they get and more, period. Yes the economy stinks here, but I can guarantee that if teachers wages were less than they are now, many will leave. To be honest, many people are going to have to leave anyway. There won't be work here for many years, less people, less students, less teachers.

mooser you are wrong, they do get paid for year round IF they choose to . They can take their salary over 9 months or over 12. They decide. So yes they are being paid year round in one form or another. They get paid holidays and the days that school has scheduled as off.

I think cubfans comment is correct to a point. Just because you continue to further one's education does not always mean what people think its means.

My son's one teacher has been going to school forever. She wants to be a administrator. To me public schools have become way to political. It's all about the money, who gets it , and how much. I was at a meeting last year about some school issues and it had all the principals and administrators there. They sounded more like politicians than educators. IT makes one sick as its suppose to be about the kids. Not new restrooms for staff. The last I knew a toilet was a toilet .

So these educators who continue on need to remember why they got into education and be careful not to become just another suit. or excuse me skirt.

shagcarpet This shows how ignorant you are and shoul place your comments elseware! Teachers get paid for days worked. They do not get paid for Holidays and summers. Check out your facts first!

On teachers raises -- why do they not deserve them -- they have the most important job out there -- teaching children -- the up and coming leaders of this community. I am sure the teachers work just as hard as our state reps and assembly and they just took a raise -- I am sure these teachers will work just as hard with this raise as our state reps are!

cubfan

Basically I end up using some (sometimes too much) of my prep/break time to post my comments and then find myself working later on those days.

I always get my job done and then some but sometimes the late nights are my own fault.

Thanks for the concern though.

futurerich, I am with you on questioning the greatness of capitolism but I think we need to be careful about who we target in this. I would consider a pay freeze but I strongly disagree with rolling back wages. Honestly, I am not that involved in the union (yet!) but it is something I need to fit into my schedule. Perhaps after finishing my master's I can get involve and better understand the details of all this.

done!

Whythink, I think its interesting that we disagree on this subject considering our political leanings are probably similar. I suggest you take the chart showing teacher pay raises over the past 7 years, show it to a laid-off GM worker in Janesville, and tell that worker that teachers should continue to receive raises. Then tell that GM worker that their property taxes will have to increase to finance that raise. As for your comment on Socialism, I think if things get much worse, that might be a feasible option. I used to worship Capitalism, now not so much.

I am responding to provide factual information that some were asking about. First of all, everyone receives benefits in addition to their pay/salary. All of us should review those benefits and understand the costs associated with them and include them (and be thankful for them) when we evaluate our own total compensation. Indeed there are benefits that teachers receive that the private sector usually does not offer. On the other hand there might be benefits that some of us get (a company car for example) that teachers do not receive. Bottom line - when doing comparisons - be sure to compare everything! That being said, I will respond to some of the benefit questions.

Sick Pay: Teachers receive 10 sick days per year as well as 2 personal days (with limits on when they can be taken) as well as 4 "my child is sick" days. Total of 16 days. Unused sick days (of the 10) can accumulate up to a maximum of 130 and can be used at retirement to cover up to 4 years of health insurance which are in addition to the 4 years that are already offered. Because of this, you may see teachers retire at age 57 because they can receive 8 years of paid health insurance until they qualify for medicare at age 65.

Dental Insurance: The first $1000.00 of dental costs are covered for each person in the plan. If I were a teacher, this would mean that me, my wife and my kids would each have our first $1000.00 of dental work covered. (For me that would be worth $9000.00!) I am not sure that the term "limited", that someone else used, accurately portrays this benefit.

Retirement: It is true that the district does not contribute to a 401(k) plan. However, they are part of the WRS (Wisconsin Retirement System) which is a defined benefit plan that is very attractive. The district (taxpayers) pays all of the cost to fund this plan which usually amounts to 11% or so of the persons salary.

Work Days: Teachers are contracted to work 190 days per year. There are a couple of ways to view the time off such as Christmas and Easter breaks as well as summer. Since their pay is spread over the entire year, you can view these as vacation days or you can simply divide their pay by their contractual hours and say that the average teacher in Janesville is paid $33.08 per hour plus other benefits ($51,613.00 divided by 1560 hours) but does not receive any vacation days. Please note that there are many teachers who put in far more than the minimum of 1560 hours. I suspect that the amount of "extra hours" that are put in varies by the subject that is taught, by the experience of the teacher and by the personal characteristics of some teachers.

Insurance: Teachers who partake in the "wellness plan" pay 3% of the cost of the monthly premium. I do not have the monthly costs nor all of the co-pays etc. at my fingertips.

I hope this information was useful and please keep all discussions professional.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

If we roll the teachers' pay back to 2005 levels, are we going to roll the administrators' pay back as well? What about the police? Firemen? Other city employees? Will we eliminate all positions that did not exist in 2005? Will we get rid of equipment and programs that were not in place at that time as well? Hey, why stop at 2005? Why not go back to 1909, and make it a nice even 100 years?

*

Are we going to force local businesses to roll their prices back to 2005 levels? After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? Let's all suffer equally together, right?

*

Are you really proposing a form of socialism? Have we become a suburb of the People's Republic of Madison?

peppermeister, yes actually I do , when I go on vacation, take a personal day have to plan out the days for my replacement. The lucky soul also finds out they are on call 24/7. So this wah , wah, I am hearing give me a break.

whythink...I am curious if you are a teacher how can you be online checking the comments?
You believe you are under paid. I am sure 90 percent of the working force think they are underpaid( even the greedy GM employess). You choose the profession and knew what the situation would be. I would rather be underpaid than not being paid at all. and keep in mind MORE EDUCATION does not always make a person smarter. It a teachers case it means more money.

bbbw: I echo your sentiments. I would not want the job of a teacher. Too bad they weren't all employed by the Sheriff's Dept., then we could pay them what they are worth. 18% increase isn't it?

Wow, I can't believe I just read this whole page of comments. I think my IQ just dropped a few points. I just want to say to all the teachers out there that I very much appreciate all that you do for our kids. I know I couldn't do your job. As a person who has had my profession trashed on this forum several times by ignorant people, I know how personal some of these comments can seem. But, I think most rational, reasonable people in Janesville do value you, more than you realize. It's just that the angry, bitter ones are more vocal about their opinions-- and they're definitely in the minority. I don't know what the right solution is as far as the money stuff, but as far as I'm concerned, I would never complain about you guys getting a raise. You deserve it, and then some. Don't let the whiners get you down!

Pat - When you take vacation, do you need to prepare a plan detailing what the person who will be filling your spot while you are away will need to accomplish? Do you need to find that person who will fill your spot?

Equating personal days with vacation days is not a valid comparison.

As a teacher, I am fine with what I am given for compensation. Do I feel teachers are underpaid and underappreciated? YES - The right wing nuts like Hannity and Rush do a great job of minimizing what we do. Heck, McCain basically said if you are smart you can teach, the theory and methodology doesn't really matter.

That said, I honestly believe the situation will get worse if somehow a pay increase (as suggested) back to 2005 was put in place. My family would not be able to afford that. I doubt we would be the only ones and that isn't a good way to help this community.

There are plenty of sacrifices that can be made and I don't believe we should start with education. Yes, I am a bit biased but cutting education services/teacher pay, is not the best solution. We need to be smarter (MORE EDUCATED) than that.

pat

We don't get vacation time like a lot of jobs. We are contracted for a certain number of days and a very specific schedule. We don't have many days we can take off as vacation. So yes, we have time built into the school calendar as days off but if I want a random week in Feb. off I might struggle to get it.

I have two nephews that graduated college June 2008 that have starting salaries of $48,000 and $55,000. Thank God they didn't choose to be teachers with low starting pay and a "benefit" of all the free public b.s. they could handle!

Baloney they don't get vacation days. They do get personal days. I can not believe someone would have the nerve to say they don't get vacation days. NOT to mention the holidays they are all paid for , such as the time over Christmas and Easter/Spring Break that is all paid. So its personal days they have not vacation days. Buts its all the same is it not.

Thanks Rocky!!

whythink; the username is so fitting! I know I could research it. I was hoping that maybe someone might know and add some insight w/out me having to do the research as I am swamped with work.
You on the other hand thought?
Well thought pooped his pants and thought you did it!

Rocky: Are those Janesville teacher benefits you listed?

For the record: I am not a Janesville Teacher, but I can give the following answers:

The public would like to know:
Number of Vacation days? Zero. No paid vacations.
Number of Sick days? 12, including personal days.
Insurance Co-pay amount? ??
Insurance Premiums? ??
Dental Care Provided? Limited
Vision Care Provided? No
401k Match? No
Total Hours worked per calendar year at office (and yes, many of us put in free time for work at home)? 1520 contracted hours (usually over 2000 hours total)
The teachers may be right, they may not have such a glorious job that everyone believes they have!
Let's get the facts.

I'll defer to those who know more on the insurance details.

whythink- Nothing against teachers, but I have research skills and many other skills that have nothing to do with a teacher teaching me anything.
.
I just had to respond.

Whythink: First, thank you for being a teacher. However, your "its not fair, I didn't do it" attitude is absurd! Like it or not, your salary is paid by taxpayers.why should "we" pay for "you" to have a RAISE when most of "us" are struggling due to corporate downsizing, layoffs, over taxation or inflation on our everyday goods.

The ENTIRE economic situation is not fair. However, it is what it is and in order to come out stronger, then we ALL need to do our part. If that means putting the full out QEO in effect or going back to 2005 wages then so be it. Teachers are taxpayers too. Your 3% raise, once you figure in all the extra taxes YOU will have to pay to fund it, will probably come out as a decrease!!

If you don't like it, maybe teaching in the private sector would be more palatable??

Has anyone thought of what our community has to offer? Now that GM is closing along with its subsidaries, what will be the lure to move to Janesville? I would argue that great schools could be the centerpiece to attract citizens. Along with realistically priced real estate (considering the neighboring cities) we as a community could come out as winners in the face of these job losses. If we lose our great schools and teachers, we could very likely see the loss of our city. We should be investing not only for the sake of our future workers, but for the longevity of our city.

rocket

If you do a little research you can find out. When you find out, thank the overpaid teacher that taught you those research, skills.

It would be nice to compare with other compensation packages.
Does anyone know and care to share what the teachers receive for benefits?
The public would like to know:
Number of Vacation days?
Number of Sick days?
Insurance Co-pay amount?
Insurance Premiums?
Dental Care Provided?
Vision Care Provided?
401k Match?
Total Hours worked per calendar year at office (and yes, many of us put in free time for work at home)?
The teachers may be right, they may not have such a glorious job that everyone believes they have!
Let's get the facts.

Shagcarpet your post is ridiculous. Whythink, thanks for teaching and don't listen to the ignoramous.

I think what the teacher's on here or not realize is they are not going to get their raise and not have to pay more for benefits. Something will have to give and they know that. Thats why you see some of the responses you do from them. In the end it will still be surprising if they do not cut positions. It is just the way of the economy. No one is safe. I can't think of one safe job in this economy. Especially in Janesville, Janesville, Rock County has yet to see the effect of G.M. closing. It is going to get much worse, we are in for a long haul before economy recovery even begins to touch Janesville, and Rock County. The clinic where my sister works just laid off R.N.'s of all things. What are they doing? They are replacing them in Dr.'s office's with CNA's.. That is just scary. Because CNA's can ask the basic questions, but a nurse would know what other questions to ask when someone is having a health issue. It is a scary time people , get it through your heads. Everyone is going to have to give.

Personally I am not in it for the money but I do need the "decent" wages and good benefits (not that I take any from the district because my wife's are better) to provide for my family.

Fall 2009, I will have 6 years as a teacher and a Master's degree and finally break the $40,000 mark. I don't think I am greedy... I have friends in the public sector that started at $40,000 with a bachelors degree. I believe I get a decent wage - I and all teachers deserve more but it isn't about the $$$. That said, I can't afford to volunteer either.

I am so sick of hearing teachers complain that they are underpaid. Personally, I think they are overpaid. In what other profession would you have summers and every major holiday off and get a decent wage and excellent benefits? If you are teaching for the money, you shouldn't be teaching. Just about everyone is having to make sacrifices in this economy so get over it.

futurerichguy
Jan 27, 2009 at 8:57 a.m.
Suggest removal I love teachers and think our Wisconsin teachers are some of the best in the nation, but a pay freeze is absolutely essential. Actually, if it were up to me, I would roll back the past 3 pay raises and decrease salaries to where they were in 2005. That would include administators in addition to teachers and everyone employed by the public school system. It's just a hard reality that our economy has regressed at least 3 years and everyone needs to feel that pain.

***Hold on a second. If we are going to have EVERYONE feel the same about the economy why not employ socialism, truly the spread the wealth and not have anyone hurting.

All I hear when that argument is brought up is
"personal responsibility" but isn't this just the reverse. Punish people who have done nothing wrong so they feel the same pain as those struggling. Why pick on teachers and gov't employees? Why not pick on those who are making millions and have their salaries help out those who are struggling?

I am not a socialist and do not want $$ taken from the rich and given to the poor but saying teachers should have their salaries rolled back to 2005 is crazy. There are plenty of people in the public and private sector making way more that can truly afford to help way more. My wife and I could not afford a drop in salary like that. Our budget is too tight and we wouldn't make it.

How would that help the Economy?

Lets give a Amen to futurerichguy. As many have said on here, its not about the job they do but the facts of the economy. Everyone is going to have to bend and give.

I love teachers and think our Wisconsin teachers are some of the best in the nation, but a pay freeze is absolutely essential. Actually, if it were up to me, I would roll back the past 3 pay raises and decrease salaries to where they were in 2005. That would include administators in addition to teachers and everyone employed by the public school system. It's just a hard reality that our economy has regressed at least 3 years and everyone needs to feel that pain.

"KATY maybe you should've feel off your chair,then you would have an excuse for your ignorants!"-Woodsman

*******************

To me, that statement says it all. Did someone say Woodsman is homeschooling?

Serdan: Are you or your spouse former teachers?

I don't think it matters who much the SDJ pays. Once the new recruits get a taste of the administration in the district, they will become disenfranchised and jump ship! Although, with Dr. Evert and Doug Bunton retiring??????

It was just on the news this a.m. that part of this stimulus package is for schools but lawmakers are worried,because they know the schools are going to blow through this money and when its gone its gone. Even the lawmakers know public schools love to spend.

Why quit spending now. J anesville needs to keep spending so that people leave town. Then when the school looses kids they can lay off the teachers.

Health care workers and social workers have been bashed on here many , many times. Try reading the paper. Maybe you should have a talk with the editor of the Gazette if you don't like what they print.

I have always thought that when people know they are doing a good job they have no reason to defend themselves, because they know they are. Well Rusty you just made me wonder what you think of the job you do. I hope you do not teach based on the attitude you have displayed here. Our kids deserve someone a little more even tempered.

"ARE you not reading the posts? There have been several teachers on here. Several spouses of teachers on here complaining I guess you only read what you want to read. by CurtainCall"

Pot, meet kettle.

Are YOU not reading the posts? Whyteach simply said they are not complaining about wages and benefits, which they are not. We are defending public schools while they are being trashed and explaining to people what exactly our job entails when people say we are "overpaid and underworked". Can you see the difference? Nurses and other health care workers would not complain if their professions were attacked by posters? Really? Really?
More later, I have to go sit in a chair and let my numerous aides and parent volunteers teach my classes for me while I check my Swiss Bank Accounts......Geez.

Tim Cullen is one of several board members aiming for a no-increase budget next year, and he said that would mean a lower pay hike than teachers are accustomed to. But he’s looking to cut non-teaching jobs first.

Wrong route Tim, start at the top with administration.

TechMaster,
Nice try, never said teachers would only do a good job if they are paid more. I said investing in teacher salaries would attract and retain better teachers. You want a return on investment. So do I and the other teachers. I can play this "twist my words game" if you like.

ARE you not reading the posts? There have been several teachers on here. Several spouses of teachers on here complaining I guess you only read what you want to read. As far as nurses and social services employees. Health care employees in general take a hit every time they do a article in the gazette. People are angry about what it costs for health care and tend to blame those that have the least control. Social workers are some of the most underpaid professions I know of and they have huge responsibilities, but you don't see them on here complaining. They have been hit hard as well by lay offs, not a field we can afford to have people laid off in.

I have yet to see a post by a teacher complaining about salary and benefits. All I have seen are non-teachers complaining about teacher salary and benefits. The post I see from those I assume to be teachers are only defending what they do for a living.

They don't get bashed because they don't complain and whine. There have been several articles in the last 6 months on health care cut backs. What reason would anyone be jealous? I have excellent health care in my job, I make a decent living. Whats there to be jealous of being all you see or hear them doing in complaining about benefits or salary.

curtincall - Nurses and social workers don't get bashed on public message boards. They also don't get articles written about them in local papers that are a deliberate attempt to arouse public jealousy. Now the Gazette has 6 to 12 months of potential controversy to write about as they once again divide public opinion in this community.

I know for a fact as some one else stated these are low ball salary figures. Two years ago in Evansville a small committee was formed to hire a kindergarten teacher. It was composed of a teacher who has taught for years, a parent, and another staff member. They interviewed several candidates and then gave their recommendation's to our district administrator. Who promptly over ruled their choice, even though they were the ones who interviewed all the candidates and she went with whom she wanted someone who had experience, but someone who also commanded a starting salary of over 60,000 not including benefits. Their recommendation would have been for a first year person, who would have started for far less than that. So if Evansville can fork out that kind of money, you know darn well Janesville is. This person that was hired was someone the our administrator had previously worked with, she has a funny way of giving friends jobs. The people on this committee were just floored after all the time and effort they put into this.

To the person who brought up the tax breaks and the student loans they have to pay back. Most anyone with a education outside of high school has student loans. Teacher's are not the only ones who have student loans to pay back, yet we don't expect more pay to help us cover those. You make more money because of your education and student loans are a part of that get over it. You never hear nurses, or social workers whine quite as much as teachers and they contribute heavily to this society. They give and don't whine imagine that. So do ministers and other clergy. It's funny how people are not allowed to state their opinion on here with out being accused of teacher bashing, is that how some of these teacher's run their class rooms. NOt allowing students to give their opinion good or bad?

It's contract time and here we go again.
First off, I'm sick and tired of the teachers crying "teacher bashing" if someone speaks out against a raise for them.
I am pro teacher and believe they deserve a raise, but hey, a lot of other people also deserve raises...but aren't getting them.
I also voted for the construction referendum even though I have no kids in the school system.
But, the sad fact is, it is to the point that we just can't afford it.
I'm on a pension...that just got cut...(and I'm not alone in the regard)...but yet the teachers seem to think I can just find the money to give them a raise. Oh really? What do you suggest? Give up some of my meds? Cut out one of my daily meals? What?

That is reality. Many teachers just don't seem to get that part of it.

The beauty of this country is that yes you can take your services to another district if you feel under paid or under loved. This just might be the time to go for it, because listening to you, there is no future here. Good luck...seriously...do what you gotta do. But quit ragging on us because we cannot afford you.

Yes we will deal with the consequences if you do leave, but we will survive. That's life. This isn't a perfect world, but I am confident we will be stronger in the end.

KATY maybe you should've feel off your chair,then you would have an excuse for your ignorants!

I understand all the education (masters degrees)teachers go thru to get more money. But does that extra education make them a better teacher. One teacher right out of college teaches the same thing as that masters teacher.Maybe the school board should restructure the salary system. Also even with a pay freeze they still have a job every August. I know a lot of people layed off would even be willing to take a cut in pay to still keep thier job. Maybe the teachers should look over the fence in the playground.

TechMasterFlex: Your first post!
"I can't believe that teachers make that much!! With just a bachelors degree! Now I get why our taxes go up and up." The teachers average salary is $51000.00 but not with just a bachelors degree. My point is that most teachers do not just have a bachelors degree. In order to move up on the pay scale one must receive credits or attain a master's degree to reach this level of salary. You make it sound as if students graduate directly out of college and make $51000 a year. Not true!!

jq "I highly doubt many teachers in the district that make $51000.00 " what does average mean to you? could one of the teachers on here tell him/her please

Why_Teach_in_Janesville is right, teachers will only do a good job if they are paid a lot of money. Or was he/she just speaking for her/himself?

The readers/bloggers of this article may be interested in a related article stating that in Janesville, the free and reduced lunch participation has increased from 31 to 33% this year. Buried in this statistic are probably an alarming number of homeless students. Schools bend over backwards to serve this very hard to find demographic. These poor children also bring with them so many challenges to the classroom teacher. He or she tries to bring them an education and a safe haven in the midst of their very hard existence. Should these teachers be denied a pay increase in the face of such daunting poverty? These are the very conditions that require innovative teaching and creative methods. Denying pay raises may simply force highly qualified people to reconsider teaching as a profession, leaving you with the ones who are in it for the long vacations.

However, there is an arguement to be made that there is an attitude of entitlement surrounding teacher salary that is not present in other professional organizations, due to union involvement. A person responsible for educating the next generation should have to continually prove their worthiness, not just the first 2 years. It is practically impossible to fire incompetant teachers once tenure is reached in year 2. That is not true in other professional positions, which are typically considered exempt positions. Undoubtedly, I will open a can of worms with this stream, but it bears examination.

PS Woodsman: I tried several times to find the spelling error to which you alluded in Rustycal's post. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when you finally pointed it out, only to emphasize your inadequacy to home school your children. Get professional help, my friend. At the very least, enroll your kids in a virtual school. It's their only hope for an education.

In my opinion being a teacher is a noble choice. Long hours, dealing with students who have no regard for the work that you put into the lesson plans, dealing with thankless communities, dealing with parents who have little to no involvement in their child's life then wonder why their child is doing poorly in school, all for the chance that perhaps a few times a semester/year they can make a difference in a students life. I believe strongly that money spent on education is almost never wasted. (Unless it's for something like underwater basket weaving, but that is a totally different subject.) Apparently it has became news to people that public schools are funded by tax dollars. Slightly ironic that people who utilized the public school system now bash said system. Also, a few people have the mentality "I survive on $XX,XXX a year so should everyone else." To reiterate what other people have wrote, nobody ever said life was fair. Ambition is rewarded; being complacent, jealous, bitter or whatever gets you nowhere. I can almost guarantee you that if a teacher applies at two different school districts and one offers a better salary/benefit package they will take it, unless there are other factors involved. The point that I'm trying to make, is there is a certain amount of competition to attact good teachers. If salaries remain stagnant or decline, teachers are less inclined to be employed in that area. On a larger scale, if the stagnation/decline continues, there could eventually come a time when no one wants to be a teacher in a certain location. Who would then teach your children whom you have taught not to respect their teachers for the jobs that they do? Who do you want working on your car? Building your house? Piloting an airplane? Building highways and bridges? I could go on forever, but do you want someone who recieved a quality education from someone who knows what they are doing and is focused on their job, or do you want someone who doesn't really care or isn't focused because they are worrying about how to pay their bills or put food on their table?

TechMasterFlex: I highly doubt many teachers in the district that make $51000.00 only have a bachelors degree.

Tech- What teacher makes 100,000K a year here? If your talking a principal or super then ok....and they have more than a bach. And are you kidding me that 33 is a lot? Yes it's a lot of money....but no it certainly is not when you paying for Grad school and living on your own--just to keep yourself from being at the bottom of the totem pole when they make cuts in your department or school. "You get all that time off?" umm...teaching summer school? going to Grad school full time during the summer. Are you freaking kidding me? Like I'm laying in the sun in flippin' Hawaii with my 26,000 dollars.....

TechMasterFlex,
Do I really need to explain why students leave Janesville and never come back? Read the endless blogs on this site of people complaining because someone has something better than they do. Maybe some of these students went to be teachers? If someone would of told me about the lack of respect I surely would have reconsidered working in this town. By the way, you have to invest in education before you can get a return on it. Having a poor pay scale for teachers compared to other districts is not investing in your students it is making good teachers not come here. Don't believe me look at the turnover rate in this district. Very high, and no it isn't just due to the payscale, it has to do with other things as well such as the disrespect in this town.

I haven't read what everyone has posted and I am not responding to anyone so bear with me if I have posted what someone has already commented.
I personally feel considering the fact that these people (teachers) are molding our children to, basically, take care of use when we are old fogeys (sorry to all you elderly people for the stereotype), lets give them them raise that they well deserve. My kids come home from school with "this kid did this and this kid did that" and how many kids are the "trouble makers" (i was one so don't judge). Our teachers are educators, day care providers (for those of use who work full time), and role models for our children. Lets give them what they deserve, at any cost. If that means hiking my taxes to pay for their wages... well hike away... i can go a few miles!!!

"The average salary for Janesville public school teachers this year is $51,613" your going with the extreme low. We could go with the extreme high. Whats the highest paid? 100k? your low ballin, nice!!! And yeah 33k isn't bad when your livin in J-ville USA and you get all that time off to get another job and tack on another few K. Good for you teachers, you deserve it!!

Are they going to use carbonite?

TechMasterFlex: Are you saying that 33000 dollars is a lot of money?

skinnypuppy, yes you did say that we should be fairly compensated but you did make it sound like that just don't happen. We do multiple things that teachers don't get time for. I love my job and what I do makes me feel as if I made a difference in someones life eveyday. As far as money goes we are not paid the best. You do not have to have higher education to hold these jobs but we "some of us" work under a RN and do medical things. We are on the job educated.

Teachers are faced with so many challenges everyday. I have considered going on to educate myself and I decided that I could never do what they do. As a side kick that's enough!

I can't believe that teachers make that much!! With just a bachelors degree! Now I get why our taxes go up and up. What is the ROI? All the kids from J-ville seem to go everywhere else and earn tax revenue for other cities. Now that GM is gone, who will the teachers use as an example. Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it!! Right Gazette?

mere16 - I applaud your courage to leave and find a district that appreciates teachers rather than be the doormat and whipping post that people in Janesville thinks teachers should be. And, you are right on with the "if parents did their jobs" bit. You hit the nail on the head and that will surely tick some people off. If it does tick people off, it's because they are taking it personally and, perhaps, they should!

rkkraa - Nowhere did I indicate that some aides/paras/etc don't do these things, nor did I state that NO teachers are blessed to have this sort of help. My point is that not ALL teachers are privy to assistance like this, nor am I indicating that all should have an aide. I did, in fact, specifically state that you and other paras/secretaries should be fairly compensated for your vital service, so I am not sure of your point since I did validate the services you provide to some teachers - though not to all teachers.

mere16 - With an attitude like that I am also grateful that you resigned from teaching in this district. Unfortunatley you are resorting to the same tactics that you claim you abhor. Be careful about your generalizations for not everyone posting on here is "uneducated".

umm, skinnypuppy, as an aide "paraeducator" in the Janesville S.D. I have personally done all of those things. I would love to see what would happen if we didn't show up for just one day!

Well, reading these posts makes me glad I resigned my position teaching in this district; however, I am also quite afraid for my children who are students in Janesville. Part of the reason I left my position is that teachers are treated terribly in this community. I didn't want to work for little to nothing AND take a load of crap from uneducated people who THINK they know what a teacher does all day. The major reason teachers leave their jobs is that they are underpaid AND unappreciated. I don't pretend to speak for all teachers, but I do know plenty who feel the same way and don't have other options in this economy. Many people in Janesville would just as soon raise their kids to be unskilled laborers and uneducated dumb @$$%$ than put the time in parenting their kids and taking responsibility for them learning something about the world they live in. Those people would prefer to log in here and "cry" about how their taxes are too high and their poor little children are unsuccessful and those "bad teachers" are to blame. Go ahead and keep bashing the teachers who work with your children! Go ahead and see what happens. The good teachers will leave and then where will you complainers be? You might want to think about that...or, if that takes you away from your tavern time, maybe you won't.

Hmmm...I have three relatives and two good friends who teach in the district, and none of them have ever had an aide or volunteer in the classroom, only has secretaries from the designated clerical pool make copies, and no one has else has ever entered their attendance or typed things up for them or graded things for them. Not only that, but all of them have special ed students in their classes but have never had an aide or team teacher to assist...so while some teachers may have this, don't assume that even most teachers have this in the Janesville district either. It really isn't true. Nonetheless, the aides and secretaries do deserve their own kudos and fair compensation for their work - just as the teachers do.

sluggo - The problem with your scenario is that it is appropriate for taxpayers to have a say in what the salaries are because schools are on the property tax role. There is only so much the market can bare, which has become painfully evident for every sector of employment, public and private. The only way that this type of discussion will ever end is if the State of Wisconsin would find a way to take the public school system off of the property tax role.

"Sadly, no one gives a rip about the secretaries/clerks/aides for the school district. You'd all be surprised about how much work they do with very little compensation."

Those folks are extremely important to the operation of any school district and I shudder to think what it would be like without them.
That being said, in my district, the secretaries and aides do not make copies for teachers, take attendance or type up tests. If we were even to ask them to do these tasks, I think they would beat us. That is not the purpose of having these essential people in the building.
We consider these people to be our friends and colleagues and it pains us to see them being overloaded with work and having positions cut. If they were being attacked in these posts as teachers are, I would be the first to stick up for them.

A teacher should make more; they have a degree. If an aide or other employee has a degree, why are they working beneath their education?

Thank you public school teachers you have done an excellent job with my child. I for one am proud of you guys. Thanks and keep fighting for what you DESERVE!!

Sadly, no one gives a rip about the secretaries/clerks/aides for the school district. You'd all be surprised about how much work they do with very little compensation. Teachers, custodians and food service workers all make a heck of a lot more than the secretaries & aides. No one has even bothered to mention that they have been without a contract for coming up on 2 years! I'd LOVE to see a strike by them! Then teachers would have to work with all the special ed students themselves, type up their own tests, make their own copies, enter attendance and so, so much more!

Said it many times. Soon the private sector will no longer be able to afford these constant pay and benefit increses of public sector positions. They have strong unions and all live off the tax payers no matter the ability to pay more and more every year. Let's look at the recent move by our Sheriff who moved all 6-7 Leutenants to newly created Captain positons with $13,000.00 raises with no more work etc, just huge pay raises. That's about 20-25% pay increases. Now, where was our county board when this crazy move took place? Yet, the leutenant positions are still open. They should have been eliminated!!! Soon we'll have more management there watch. Next our great and do nothing legislators gave temselves a 5.3% pay raise for their so called full time jobs with part time demands. They can't even do their basic jobs of creating a budget. When will these public sector jobs ever be held accountable and they are the highest employers in the state. Yikes!!!!!!!!! How long can the property owners regardless of their incomes hold up these exclusive government jobs??

I have more faith in the public school system than many of you do. Those of you that simply spout rhetoric about, "Public Schools are failing and public schools are the root of all evil" are just regurgitating things that you read in the press. WHAT exactly is wrong with public schools? Let's discuss issues. For every negative thing you come up with, I will give you 5 positive things about public schools. Does the MPS(Milwaukee Public Schools) have some issues? Of course, but that is an extreme case.
I am amazed at some of the kids that we graduate from our school district each year. They are a diverse, unique, wonderful group of young people that make me proud to have been a small part of their education. Are their some knuckleheads too? Of course, but just look at the "diverse" group of people posting on this article.
That's just the way it is in life, some want to learn and some just don't. We can't learn for them, they have to want to do it. We can give them the tools, teach them how to use them and help with the foundation, but we can't build the building for them.

Since it is about to be tax season and it was brought up by a previous "teacher hater" poster here is what one teacher shared with me as to how their "nice" tax break will play out.
1. a $250 deduction from his adjusted gross income
2. a $2000 deduction from his adjusted gross income for interest payed on his student loan that was used to pay for his 4 year degree to become a teacher.
3. a $1800 tax credit for paying about $7000 in tuition for the past year for a Masters' degree program he is enrolled in.
So, after paying about $300 in out of pocket expenses for his classroom, about $3000 in student loan payments for a degree to do his job, and another $7000 dollars in tuition to keep up on his licensing requirements ($10,300 spent), this teacher will get about a $2000 dollar tax break. That is a net loss of $8,300. "Nice" tax break.

Do not forget open enrollment is Feb2-20th.

roseb-- many do not have their kids in public schools, brick and mortar because of the way they are run. The attitude of entitlement is outrageous. Many people do home school and are with their kids 24/7 and enjoy all of it.

I don't understand what the deal is with people criticizing teachers so much ever since the whole contract issue. If people really think we make too much...you are more than welcome to come and teach with me for a day. It is very RARE that you get a classroom with 23 angels....and after 8 hours, sometimes you want to pull out your hair. But do we quit ours jobs? No. Because we knew this all along... On top of all of this, on top of putting in all the extra hours lesson planning, co-teaching, meetings, networkings on children, etc....we have to attend meetings that go beyond the workday, many of us have to complete Professional Development Plans and training, Professional Development Hours and training sessions, and if we want to even move on the pay scale attend and pay for extra college. It's not like we go at 7:45-3:45 and come home and spend the night watching tv and veging....Teaching is not a job you leave at work. We complain because of all you who sit (not all) on here and complain about us. Without us....you'd be spending all day with your child (children). Have respect. We work hard and we work long. So do you. We're not sitting on here telling you your job at the office isn't a real job or hard enough. Be respectful of what we do. Without us, you wouldn't even have your job.

woodsman, I still disagree. Someone was "SAYING HER CHILD WAS HOME SCHOOLED", Not "STAYING HER CHILD WAS HOME SCHOOLED" That is what Rustycal was commenting about.

“Should read STAY HOME SCHOOLED<NOT SAY HOME SCHOOLED!! Find it?”

Check again, Woodsman… I think you misinterpreted the context of the statement…

I have a degree in business administration. How much do I make? I don't know if thats appropriate to really ask is it?

GAMMA apo.accepted. Should read STAY HOME SCHOOLED<NOT SAY HOME SCHOOLED!! Find it?

Im also aware that my comments here mean nothing as well. Im just bored

It is okay that you didnt answer the question. It just goes to show that you dont know what its like to be attacked by this city every other year having the public slap you in the face and tell you that you make too much. I imagine though if it were to happen to you, you would be on the other side of the fence. Also our comments here are quite pointless. If you want to make a difference either way go to a school board meeting and when the topic comes up raise your hand and cry to them.

woodsman, sorry I misunderstood your post when you responded to my comment. However, I do not believe that the line from Rustycal's post is incorrect. I could be wrong. I read it several times. How should it be spelled?

If I did not like my job, and threw myself into a tizz every year about a raise I would have quit long ago. I love what I do, I love the people I work with, and I meet new people all the time. So it stays interesting. I don't dwell on the money because there is nothing anyone can do about it at this time. I am just glad to have a job.

Now RustyC if you are going to beat your head, do you have protective gear?

gamma; read it more closely,that comment was what you were looking for in miss spelled by RUSTYCAL.

"IAMQUEENB My nieces teacher said she gets a lot of freebies through the book orders they do. Where she can choose from more books, pencils, stickers or what ever else they have that month to choose from. So not everything comes 'out' of there pocket."

Goodness, gracious. You just don't get it, do you? Who ever said that it ALL comes out of their pocket? Where was that written? I don't know why I even try with some of you. It's like beating my head against a wall over and over.

16 years good for you. I made my sacrifice when my job was sent to Canada. My question to you and all others who feel that it is your responsibility to determine a teachers wages is, What if the gazzette decided to slant an article so that readers would feel that you dont deserve the wages you make or beifits that you receive? My guess is that you would be up in arms saying that you work hard and have put in your time and you deserve a raise. Think about show some compassion LIFE ISNT FAIR. So we should punish others for. I for one think not.

i don't feel sorry for the teachers. all my children went to janesville public schools. most of the teachers didn't give a poop about the kids. there were some excellent teachers but it wasn't often they got "good" report grades from my children. the teachers union is blind. they protect the bad ones because the good ones don't need protection.

iamqueenb: The only reason I am asking is to see how out of line teacher's salaries are?

iamqueenb: What is your education level? Bachelors's, Master's, Associates Degree? What is your current salary as a d.m.?

woodsman, you better check the posts because I did not make the comment you mentioned. I just asked where the misspellings are in RustyCal's comments. Well, where are they?

In these "virtual schools" do they also have virtual friends? Wouldn't you be bummed if you didn't meet some of the people you did when you were growing up?

Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher in this town--a bunch redneck people who's kids act like little punks because their families don't value education along with the way the public portrays teachers. Aides don't do the teachers' jobs at the high school--that is not true--I don't know who makes this stuff up.

I have worked for the last 16 years as a d.m. for a area employer. We have had more than our share of wage freezes and having to lay people off over the last few years. We all have had to make sacrifices.

gamma:"I hope for your child's sake that when you say home schooled" But who really cares,seems to bother the brains here though!!

opps I wrote of instead of off. Just another result of brick and mortar school systems

actually they do but writing of 365 dollars doesnt come close to what they spend. 365 is the max i believe right now but, I may be wrong

RealWorld,

I do not doubt that teacher aides, etc. do a lot of work, but I spend a lot of time volunteering at my sons school, and I am in awe of the teachers there. I don't know enough to form an opinion regarding the "freeze," but I have to say that "not working hard enough" is not an issue for the teachers at Roosevelt Elementary.

I really don't care for the sense of 'entitlement' that some teacher's or their spouses seem to have.
As far as teachers who 'pay' for things out of there own pocket. I can guarantee they write it off on there taxes and if they don't thats there loss. I do believe that teacher's get a nice tax break that the rest of us do not get either, on top of their salary, and benefits. No one is entitled to anything anymore with the economy the way it is.

dislocated worker to be exact

sure I am a student

YOU first. What do you do?

Has anyone ever done a study on how many teachers have left either the district or the profession because of the pay/benefits? Does the district survey the teachers that leave and find out why? My guess is that most of them move for reasons NOT related to pay/benefits. I'll bet its family situations like spouse is moving or transferring because of job change on their part. You'll have to come up with another excuse to try to frighten us into believing there will be a mass exodus of teachers leaving because of pay/benefits.

MOCO248: "See what you find is most teachers just accept what the get most of the time" So my not being perfect in spelling,you can't even make heads or tales out of your big educated paragraph. Lets get back to the hard times raises,not who's the best speller.

"RustyCal: I think it's funny how people like you(so educated,and all)can diss someones spelling,and proclaim to be the best of the best educated,should check your own spelling,you missed a few yourself. Better get some money back from your high priced education,seems you missed a class or two,probably one of those party days LOL! I have an excuse,low life only making 10K,whats yours? Maybe everyone needs to live on $190 a week,then you'd appreciate what you have."

Woodsy, I feel sorry for you. You obviously have some security and self-confidence issues. How can you refer to yourself as a low-life? Don't you have more self respect than that?
I DO appreciate what I have. I thank god that I have a great job working with kids EVERY day. When you show up on this website hiding behind some screen name and insulting my profession and the schools that I work for, I take issue. Many of you that are blaming the public education system for all ills are the same parents that expect us to raise your kids for you. It's easy to blame the schools and not the parents who raised some of these problem kids that are hindering the learning process. There are plenty of wonderful, loving, intelligent kids that go through public schools and flourish in society.
STOP GENERALIZING!!!! Not all public schools are failing!!!! Geez.

queenb just curious what u do for a living

Why is it that teachers get bashed when contract time begins? Are we bashing the Police men and women, or Firefighters or other public service people for getting their raises?

NO one, absolutely NO one has abused anyone on here. You just don't like what people are saying that does not make it abuse. Abuse would be swearing or calling them names, personal attacks.
NO one has done that. You just don't like any one disagreeing with you and when they do you try to say they are being abusive. A product of brick and mortar schools?

woodsman, I just reread RustyCal's posts. Where are the misspellings? I am just curious.

RustyCal: I think it's funny how people like you(so educated,and all)can diss someones spelling,and proclaim to be the best of the best educated,should check your own spelling,you missed a few yourself. Better get some money back from your high priced education,seems you missed a class or two,probably one of those party days LOL! I have an excuse,low life only making 10K,whats yours? Maybe everyone needs to live on $190 a week,then you'd appreciate what you have.

"that doesn't mean they should get abused either." VERY VERY TRUE

whats good for the goose is good for gander is a very true statement.

My nieces teacher said she gets a lot of freebies through the book orders they do. Where she can choose from more books, pencils, stickers or what ever else they have that month to choose from. So not everything comes 'out' of there pocket.

rlms: I don't whine about mine either. I also understand that my job in the future of mankind is also meaningless. Teachers shape our world and if we don't treat them fairly we will end up with a bunch of people like woodsman that can't spell, let alone provide leadership in our world. If we continue to push the good ones out of this profession what we will end up with is people that are only looking for the 2.5 months off in a year. Is this really what we want? They aren't asking for much. As was stated earlier in this blog, they did not get the big increases many of us did back in the 90's.

*

Quit with the "What is good for the goose is good for the gander" argument. It is not valid!

*

Yes she does teach special ed and yes she does know that I'm on here but she doesn't whine half as much as she should. See what you find is most teachers just accept what the get most of the time. They understand they won't get rich but that doesn't mean they should get abused either.

well sluggo your child is very lucky. But not all teachers are like that.

We are not soured on education , but on the public school systems. There are to many other options, better options in this day and age for our kids to get a great education without subjecting them to the b.s. in public schools. I don't feel bad for public schools and they have put them selves in the position they are in. Then they want people to feel sorry for them.

My sons teacher bought the entire class rootbeer before xmas break. He also pays them with pretend dollars that he for the school store. How do they spend pretend dollars? His teacher gives the store cash and the children get to spend it.Not to mention stickers treats and more. His money from his pocket. I do lump them all together because of all the teachers I know I do not know one who doesn't spend $ on there students! IM DONE

In this economy there is no room to 'give a inch'.
It's only going to get worse. Janesville and Rock
County both we have yet to see the outcome from G.M. closing. There will be families that move out of the area looking for work, and down again go enrollment no.

"As far as teacher's paying out of pocket. Out of pocket and goodness of their heart. But not every teacher does that. So do not lump them all in that boat.

I know of a teacher who does that but she also has it to give. She has taught for 30 years and had many resources to pull from when there is a child in need."

Rims: If you were referring to my post about teachers paying out of pocket expenses, notice that I said some(not all) in the post. Does that qualify as not "lumping them all in one boat"? Some of you are so soured on education for one reason or another that there is just no point in discussing it with you.
You just had to qualify that the teacher that taught 30 years and helps out students can "afford it". Jeepers, you anti-public education, anti-teachers folks will just not give an inch, will you? Whether she has it or not, she could choose to spend it on other things, but she chooses to spend it on those needy children.......

I'll keep it short and sweet. Times are tough. Give now to get later. It works for BOTH sides.

so sorry.

pat: That is more than one word!

One word.. Virtual schools. Accredited teachers, considered public schools, More and better curriculum , no school fees, its free, with the exception your tax dollars go to the virtual school your child attends, not to the public schools that continue to fall short in what they offer. I have no doubt virtual school numbers will continue to grow as brick and mortar schools falter. Because people are to busy worrying about raises, and benefits, and building when they should be saving. Brick and mortar schools have spent foolishly for years and its caught up to them.

Can someone tell us all what other districts are doing in terns of teacher's contracts and raises? I can not think of a district in the area that is not in the hole right now.

As far as teacher's paying out of pocket. Out of pocket and goodness of their heart. But not every teacher does that. So do not lump them all in that boat.

I know of a teacher who does that but she also has it to give. She has taught for 30 years and had many resources to pull from when there is a child in need.

MOC0428 I do have a degree, never said I did not. I just don't sit around whining quite as much as teacher's do about my pay or benefits. They always think they should get more and more.. Don't we all. Does your wife know you come on here and whine on her behalf? She is the one who teaches special ed correct?

I cannot believe that I actually wasted my time reading some of these comments, but I now feel it necessary to comment. I do not teach in the J.S.D, but I have lived and paid taxes in Janesville for 10 years. I voted for the referendum even though I have no children that attend the district because I know the value of an education and a proper environment in which to educate students.
It makes me thankful to work in a school district where the community and school board appreciate the teachers.
One thing that fails to get mentioned is the amount of $$ that many(not all) teachers spend out of their own paychecks to make sure that students are properly equipped with supplies. The teachers in my district even pitch in to buy clothes and necessities for students who cannot afford to do so themselves. I have taught for 10 years and I coach three sports. Am I thankful every day for my job and the ability to pay my bills? Yes. Do I feel guilty for receiving a 2-4%(including benefits) raise each year for the last 10 years even when the encomony dictated that we should be receiving more? Heck no.
There are good teachers and bad teachers, just like with any occupation. I will tell you there are many more good than bad and those good ones do not go into education because of the money.
Woodsman and RealWorld...if you are going to insult teachers as much as you two do, please show us some respect by at least spelling one to two words per paragraph correctly. You two have some issues and they go much deeper than this article and the state of education. On the topic of aides in the classroom. Most of those aides are in the room with 1 to 2 children that have special needs, not for the entire class. Quit acting like you have some "inside knowledge" about classrooms and what teachers deal with because you spent some time in a classroom as an aide or volunteer. Did you make the lesson plans, grade papers and attend all the meetings and inservices required of the teachers? Did you answer phone calls from parents and deal with discipline issues and countless other things? I hope for your child's sake that when you say home schooled, it is in someone else's home, because with your venom and hatred, they will be just as spiteful and vindictive as you.
Woodsman, your posts make my head hurt. For heaven's sake, please type them in Word, do a spellcheck and then copy and paste.
One last thing, if you do not want to pay us as professional educators, then simply pay us a child care/day care workers. I teach 7 classes per day with an average of 28 students per class. That is roughly 196 students per day. How about $5 an hour per student? We'll even educate them at the same time. Quick math tells me that comes to around $900 per day. I'll even pay my own benefits if we do that.

OK I deserve that. But who are you guys going spend your days attacking when you get what you want and teachers get the pay freeze and start leaving for other communities who respect what they do. No one here talks about how teachers also pay taxes and house payments and raise families. Instead of sitting here like me wasting your time on this crappy newspaper you should be figuring out a way to get your employers to start paying you better. I is clear that you ALSO feel underpaid sometimes. On second thought lets just punish everyone....NO MORE RAISES FOREVER FOR ANY. LOve to stay and give opinions but I have to go pick up my son cause those darn teachers wont drive him home!

Rocky yes, if they were to agree to a pay freeze, yes if the economy improves in a year yes they should reneg and get their raise.

If Janesville teacher's don't think they are being paid fairly, go some where else. Drive 60 miles a day for that job you think would pay you so much more.

Most people when they don't like their pay do look else.. Come on college educated people should have no problem landing a job right?

There are plenty of unemployed teachers who would love the chance just to work, to teach.

realworld: I do understand as my wife teaches in the district you bash so easily. I know what goes on and your view may be tainted by one or two instances. Don't sit there and say that this is common practice as it it not. All of you that think it is so easy then do it. On a second thought don't you are all to ignorant! If you piss all good teachers off and they quit what are you left with? Where do you think society will go with a bunch of people like yourselves running around? I probably shouldn't be as rude but you are not looking at the larger picture. Teaching is the one profession that if has catastrophic consequences for failure. 51K a year is not a lot of money. I earn more than that with a two year degree and I know that my job is not near as important in the grand scheme of life. They are a very underpaid profession. Sure, there are those that are overpaid just because they are useless but that is in every profession. Most teachers are there for our children and what they do is very hard to put a price tag on.

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Woodsman: If you only make 10K a year then you should go get a job instead of typing on the blogs all the time!

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rlms: Just because you chose not to get an education and a good job is irrelevant. Don't use argument of "If it's good enough for me then it should be good enough for them". That isn't how life works!

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Now that I have attacked half of everyone on this blog, I'll await your responses.

Sorry sluggo my husband makes more than the average teacher,, people complain to him half the day, and I am sure they complain about him the other half. That is his job. He takes it. Neither he or I would or could be jealous of a teacher based on pay or anything else. The fact is the money is not there. Sluggo you need to get a life and stop trying to defend your position by attacking anyone who disagrees with you. State your facts , you must not have much of a case when all you can do is attack.

Pay freeze in hard times? If that was the case, why weren't the teachers getting 7 - 9% pay raises when times were good? As the articles states, when times were good in the 1990's, teacher pay increases lagged FAR behind those of the general population. Nobody was clamoring to pay the teachers at the same rate as everyone else. The battle cry was: "You chose to be a teacher, so don't cry about the poor pay raises. If you don't like it - quit.".

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Now the worm has turned. The economy in in the toilet and everyone wishes they were a teacher. Pretty good job security and steady raises. So what is the response: "Things are tough for me, so let's make sure the teachers suffer along with us". You didn't want to share the prosperity, but you sure want to share the pain.

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Nope - for now the QEO law actually favors the teachers (after about 16 years of the opposite) and they should get the raises.

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Question for all the "pay freeze" advocates. Let's say the JEA did agree to a 2 year freeze, but the economy a year from now was quite a bit better. Would you agree to re-negotiate a make-up raise?

People on here need to remember this should not be about if they deserve a raise or not, I am sure most do. It's about surviving. It's about the fact they have a huge hole in the budget right now and the money has to come from some where. They should not be treated any differently than any other working person. My husband has not seen a raise in two years, but he has a job and our family has health insurance. We are surviving and grateful to do that. There are a lot worse things for these teachers than not getting a raise. Much worse.
The unemployment line starts where????

There is also a large number of them who have become single income households due to the fact that GM and LEAR are gone. I sure they complain about that too. Things like worring about house payments are nothing to be scoffed at.

rims, your right they do complain. They complain about the people who do not support them and the GREAT things that they are doing . They complain about the petty ugly conversations like this one were people are jealous that they make less money.

To whom ever suggested freezing the pay of teachers and administrators that is a excellent idea. Freeze them both, with teachers getting a raise when possible before any administrator. .
In this day and time people should be glad to have a job, ride this economic hard time like everyone else and accept you may not get a raise this year. They are no different than anyone else. They teach, but they have also been afforded the luxury of some very nice benefits, on top of salary for year. Time to tighten the belt. I guess they can choose, a raise, and possible job loss .. or no raise and everyone hangs on to their job a while longer.
They are not exempt from being unemployed, they might want to remember that.

rims,
The fact is that with QEO teachers have been being treated differently than other "working people" for years.

sluggo, hardly jealous. If I had wanted to be a teacher I would have. BUT also I think you have to look at the declining enrollment, and wonder what will become of our schools. They get so much per student from state and federal. If the numbers continue to decline as they have it won't be a matter of what to pay teachers but how. To many other great options out there like virtual schools, check the numbers they lost over 25 kids last year to virtual schools and with those kids went $$$$$$$$$$$$$... It's becoming a point where public schools are not going to be able to keep up. They actually do have competition. They got to used to being the only option and have not kept up with what the virtual schools can offer.

Jealous of what, all you ever here them do is complain. Complain about there pay, insurance, .. never complain about the summer's off though.

Watch Dave Parr closely. His constituency are his union members. While tangentially he is interested in the students he teaches, ultimately he is held hostage by his union brethren to maintain status quo. The negiotiations will never be tied to school and student performance. The school district is not going out of business because govt is not going out of business-it has captive consumers, ie tax payers.

The negotiations will be centered solely around the cost of employing, which includes salary and benefits, of teachers. This is fine, the public at large understand this. In an era of belt tightening it is not unreasonable to assume those who feed at the public trough be subject to the same fiscal limitations others do. Just watch, the suggestions of the public at large will be deemed unreasonable and Mr Parr and the union will begin its bi-annual temper tandrum asking for more money, more benefits, and priceless respect.

IN 2005-06 Janesville spent and average of $9656 per pupil and its labor cost are $8083 per pupil. The amount spent per pupil incresed 22% from 2001 and the amount spent on labor alone increased 19% over the same period. Labor costs are salary and benefits. For every $9 dollars spent per child 8 is spent on the teachers for salary and benefits. When the public at large complains about excessive school fees, ancillary charges for sports or extra curricular activities, or the incessant complaint that there are not enough dollars for school supplies and new text books, just remember that 8/9 dollars spent per pupil go towards teacher salaries and benefits. There is not a lot left over for pencils and books and sports uniforms and basketballs or swim caps or wood for wood shop classes.

http://www.eiaonline.com/districts/Wisco...

rims there is a word for the way your feeling....JEALOUS wahhhhh I dont make as much.. Become a teacher then you wont have to be so hatefull.

Who said anything about being better than anybody? The fact you live on $192 per week is damn amazing. I am saying don't get upset over teachers making $50,000 when that really isn't a lot of money with the education levels many of these people have obtained. If you work overtime would you not expect to get paid? Likewise if you go to school for extra the idea is that you would make more? Or do you just want to go to school for kicks?

why should teachers be treated different than any other working person? At my work place they have let go of 20 people in the last year. There will be no pay raise, no profit sharing this year, and cheaper health benefits, which equates to crappy insurance. I also don't make the min. of what teacher's make.. So I say yes freeze their wages, let them keep their ins. and install a increase when its responsible. It's not about if they deserve it or not, its about getting through these tough times.

Not better than someone making $10K/yr, just making what I feel are better choices.

And I wouldn't be caught dead driving a "catty".

It doesn't matter in the long run, with opinions like those posted here, the teachers will leave this community, and you'll all be educating your own children.

So the point is???? Making an honest living,or the best that's out there,makes you think your better then us? At Least i weeded out "ONE" person that admitted to be better then a 10k a year person. And this is the kind of person that drives up in catty to the food line,but admitted to being above us.

"In one more year this town will be called North Beloit."

Yep....and within 3 to 5 years Beloit will be embarrassed to be compared to Janesville at all.......

Yes we were able to pay for college using money from our 3 jobs in high school and while going to college and taking student loans. My wife does not expect to ever be rich from teaching and we can make a nice living on what we make, but still to have people who are so ignorant about what it takes to become a teacher and the effort needed just don't have a clue.(I am not a teacher, and never would be because of the way they are treated) And by the way if you only make 10k a year you should apply for college because I bet you would get financial aid and grants from everywhere! Then you can shoot for $33,000 a year.

Well, I read this article and threw up in my mouth a little. I have two things to say.
One: Those teachers have worked HARD for what they have. They deserve there raises and there healthcare, after all they take care of our children.
Two: We must remember that LIFE ISN'T FAIR so, if you didnt get your raise thats a shame but don't take it out on our childrens educators because your sour.
With that I say give them there raise and if you dont like it then build a bridge and get over it.

Enough common sense to know I don't want to raise and educate children on only 10K/yr.

I think Woodsman and realworld ought to change there screen names to gottagettaclue and outoftouchwithreality. "callage" "garrented"? No wonder your getting $10k a year. How do you even figure out how to turn on your computer?

realworld: These people with "NO" money worries will never get it,book smart,but "NO" common sense. Learn how to teach & discipline out of a book,i've seen it,you don't know nothing until you have to teach your own children 24/7,on 10k a year!

RealWorld: Maybe you should get a different username because you are definitely not living in the "real world." In the real world, there are many languages and many people speaking different languages. This country was built by people of different countries, speaking different languages. In the real world, most people would be offended at your comments. In the real world, it is because of asinine comments like "Marie I stick with my comment, english is the language. You live here then you should know how to speak it" that we have so much conflict.

MOC0428 Maybe you should look at yourself, before cutting me down. I know what goes on in the schools. People need to wake up, teachers are no better then anyone else.

It's nice that "YOU" could afford the collage thing,hats off my friend! But the more education you get,doesn't mean your garrented,or should expect to make monies that aren't their,in hard times. 33k,sounds like a lot of money to me,you try living on 10k,like the most of us do.

WOODSMAN??? 51k a year is too much? My wife spent over 75k on her education over the course of 10 years? She has her B.A.(4.5 years of school and a free internship for the school to boot) her Masters(another 2.5 years) and another 24 credits(3 years of school) from post high school all to better understand the successful way to educate our children. She has taken OVER 200 college credits spent many nights after school is out getting kids where they need to go and talking to parents on the telephone while we juggle our personal life at home so your kids can get the most out of their education. She makes a whopping $42,500 per year. Whoa!!! Cut her off already she is making way too much for you! Yes she gets July and August off, and don't forget about 10 days over Christmas. The rest of the year she works 45-50 hours a week, including parents calling her at home.

Marie I stick with my comment, english is the language. You live here then you should know how to speak it.

deborah21154 exactly. I have seen school items (computers desks, tables ect...)being tossed out in good condition, cause they want better.

Gee wish I could throw out stuff that are in good shape for even better stuff and have the taxpayer pay for it.

Realworld said: "Gamma those all thing teachers did when we were growing up, yet the principal took care of most of it."

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I hope you're not the one home schooling your child! Your wording and grammar are appalling. I am not usually one that calls people out for grammar (as I make my share of mistakes) but in the case it seems appropriate. You sit there and bash teachers because of what you saw. I can tell you in more cases than not, that is NOT the case. As someone else said on this blog, the world today is far different from the world when we were growing up. The school district as a whole has a much bigger responsibility that it did years ago. That being said the teachers will sometimes get aides. The aides are usually a shared resource, I doubt that one aid will stick with one teacher for an entire day.

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You go ahead and bash the teachers but keep in mind that when you post something as ignorant as what you did you lose credibility.

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I could go on and on but I doubt you would understand anyway.

Also, for what it is worth, I'm not now, nor have I ever been, an educator. I do, however, have a number of them to thank for the things I've been able to achieve in my own life!

"high class uppity's"... Hmmm, can't say as I've ever been referred to in that manner - interesting!

More to the point, I'm someone who, like so many others, worked hard, set goals, applied myself, moved up and refuse to apologize for any success I've achieved. If that makes me "uppity", so be it.

I contend a belief that $51K was too much to pay for someone who was willing to put up with the challenges presented by educating children is not only short sighted but incredibly disrespectful. If you would like to teach the next generation for a mere $33K, please have at it. Spend the money, go to school and make your imprint. My guess is that you wouldn’t last a month. Teachers work hard, are underpaid and are up against challenges that are less often the children and more often the parents. I thank them for and appreciate what they do.

It’s time to get real.. How many people living here haven’t faced been forced to face price concessions and benefit losses from their jobs in the last decade? Let alone loss of their long term jobs and all of their benefits available from those jobs. Many have lost more than one job because of plants closings or the current situation with the economy. How many of those who lost their jobs are not currently making as much per hour as they did previously or have equal benefits to those that they did have. How many are even able to work a similar shift for the job they lost? Are you seriously telling me that teachers should just be exempt to all of this? NO one else has been. The fact is that the majority of the people living here and working are making far less money than they did a decade ago.. cost of living has far exceeded any wage increases they did get and the benefits are far less then what they had. Teaching is an important job but aren’t other jobs just as important? I know that I now work holidays and weekends instead of having them off. I’ve always had to work the summer months.. winter break and spring breaks and I do not have in-service time on a monthly basis. I’ve never had an aide to help. My job also requires working long hours.

There’s so much money to go around and with all the job losses in this community the money just isn’t there. We can not continue to get hit for improvements to the schools like Air Conditioning, new computers, etc. The kids here do not go to school year round nor do they attend during the months when air conditioning is most needed. How many openings are there going to be in the schools when people have to relocate because there are NO jobs available here?

"I don't believe on adding more teachers or building on to the schools for the non speaking english students. Lets take care of are own children first. About time we got Janesville back to the way it use to be." RealWorld

I think this may be one of the most offensive statements I have ever heard.

Going back to my first comment, our world is much different today than in past decades. Teachers and administrators have much more on their plates today than they have before. What you may think is "teachers not working," may actually be "teachers teaching in a different way" to make sure they are teaching ALL students who come from many different backgrounds. Please think about this before you make such offensive comments.

For the record. General Motors is not going to put any money into Janesville Assembly. Many people are being given false hope.

xcatch: So you must be ONE of those high class uppity's,that make a lot of money,compared to the low class normal person in town. Not everyone went to collage,don't know but maybe 80 percent didn't,and if you make so much money,and can't look outside the box(like many with big bucks)the people around you might make $20,000.00 a year,hard to phantom in your world,isn't it!!

SarahB, I believe "future workers" means students. Yes, the statement doesn't make sense. Is Mary Bell suggesting that if teacher wages are frozen, the teachers won't be as effective? I don't understand the logic either.

With QEO the teachers have been getting the short end of the stick for years.

"Holy Crap: $51,000.00 Dollars a year,that's about as much as G.M. workers made!"

It is shocking what unskilled GM workers earned.

In one more year this town will be called North Beloit.

Gamma those all thing teachers did when we were growing up, yet the principal took care of most of it.

Woodman - I can't say how the $51K/yr compares to a GM salary, nor do I think it matters but, since you do, let me ask this: How many GM positions REQUIRE an undergraduate and progression towards a Masters degree? Yes, teachers choose to undertake this requirement when they settle upon this profession, but for a degreed position I don’t find $51,000 a level too high.

Also, I’m not sure of who you speak when you refer to this being “about three times the income that a normal person makes”. I have both undergraduate and post-graduate education and would never expect to work at even the level we ask teachers to work at. However, according to your calculations, I make more than 4 times your “normal” person. And with the amount of work I’ve put in to get to this point I would expect no less.

If your “normal” people put forth as much effort as I (and MANY others in this community) have, then they can expect to make more money.

RealWorld, most teachers would like to just teach. However, they are meeting attendees, substitute parents, babysitters, referees, record keepers, and the list goes on. And, woodsman, they are students themselves when they take college courses during those months when they are not teaching. They are REQUIRED to take courses to keep their license. And, they pay for these courses, hundreds of dollars, out of their own pocket. By the way, those teachers who make $51,000 have been teaching for awhile and have many credits BEYOND their bachelor's degree.

Jq yes they do!

Thank you Woodsman. Isn't that the truth?
I also took my child out of the Janesville school district, she is now home schooled. I pay a lot a month for it, yet she is learning more.
Joins sports ect... She isn't missing anything she is gaining. Maybe why the enrollment is down?
Makes you wonder.

iqpublic: Like i said, BYE BYE! Give me a break.

Teachers do not ask for volunteers or room parents! That is why they are called volunteers, they wish to be there. Should a teacher just tell them to get lost?

AMEN: REALWORLD!!! Sounds like the same song & dance,like G.M. got all the smack for. Some working hard,some watching,and the world goes round and round. Dead beats in every work force.

I've seen it first hand. About time people take a look into where their hard earn money is going.

woodsman/realworld: Your attitude towards education is exactly why teachers leave this community!

I think taxpayers should visit the schools. Things are not always as they seem. I have been a chairperson, on the PTO,PTA, room mom and a volunteer. The aides and volunteers seem to be doing more then the teachers.

The schools should go back to the way it use to be, the teachers did the teaching. Have a student teacher there at times. Nothing more nothing less. I don't believe in paying for something that isn't there. Yes there is some good teachers out there granted,yet then I think some real changes need to be made.

I don't believe on adding more teachers or building on to the schools for the non speaking english students. Lets take care of are own children first. About time we got Janesville back to the way it use to be.
Stop the spending on all the expansions,aides ect...
(when growing up we had one reading specialist and one counselor in the school).

Teachers have it a lot easier now. Take the aides and room parents and volunteers out of the schools and let the teachers earn their pay.

Holy Crap: $51,000.00 Dollars a year,that's about as much as G.M. workers made! and that's for 10 months work. Cost of living,have to keep up with that,isn't that how G.M. got to be making so much income? That is about three times the income that a normal person makes. Give more money to the teachers to keep them here,if they don't care about their community enough to give like the rest of us,BYE BYE!! Don't let the door hit ya in the ash!! And the ELECTRIC increase is CRAP too. Everyone gives but the big shots. I say boycott taxes this year,maybe the big shots will wake up.

Biggirl, I'd suggest taking a walk in the shoes of anyone working in school administration in the past two decades. Schools are very different places than they were in the '70s and '80s. Our country is a very different place as well. Because of these factors, (which I won't go into at this time) administrators work long hours, upwards of 80 hours a week, with exhausting "to do" lists, and time spent away from their own families. And, I'm sure if you would ask any of them, they do it for the well-being of all of the district's students and teachers. No one working in education, especially administration, does it for the money. Teachers, administrators, paras, secretaries, cooks, and custodians all work to do what is best for the students that they see everyday, and that is a full-time, plus more time, kind of job. There aren't too many jobs like the job of an educator today. It is a huge responsibility (as it always has been), but just with bigger problems because society as a whole has changed so drastically today. The issue I am addressing is not if I agree or disagree with whether or not there should be pay freezes for teachers or administrators. I am simply trying to make you see that just because administrators aren't "directly teaching" students, each day when they work 10-12 hours, or when they come in on Sunday to "catch up on their work," I can assure you that they have the best interest of everyone in the district in mind.

I agree with biggirl also. the administrsation downtown are the ones who make the big bucks. Freeze their salary along with the teachers for now. Then when possible give the teachers a raise first, after all they are the ones doing the work with the kids anyway!

Hey, why not frame the argument in terms of administration? I'd like to hear a comparison between 1980s or 1970s levels of administration to today. Anyone familiar with the public schools knows it has ballooned, and the administration, rather than the teachers, have virtually no role in teaching our children. Thus, I say before we have talks about freezing teacher's salaries and driving some very good teachers away, we talk about freezing administrative salaries and even laying off unnecessary non-teaching staff.

Both mine and my husbands employers have put freezes on their employees, why is it premature to also have the teachers froze?

Give them their raises and take the money out of the Healthcare Fund the JSD has been withholding from them. Wonder why we didn't hear about those millions of tax $$ in this article, sitting in an account somewhere?

The article reads that Mary Bell (president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council), thinks "it might not be wise to penalize teachers educating future workers, who are the key to any economic recovery." What the heck does that mean? Please, everybody, give me some input here.

AMEN To THAT, sannio!!!!!

No pay raises for ANYBODY working for the City at this time, and freeze any pension funds. Decrease the size of the city government to match the loss of GM workers. Don't raise taxes to compensate, like the water utility. That's absurd.

maybe that is why my property taxes went up this year, even as property values decreased or at least stayed the same. My property is not worth more, but my taxes were assessed as if it did. People need to wake up.