The tax impact is estimated at $1.20 for the average $113,000 home. I realize that these are hard times economically but this hardly significant and unlikely to drive anyone into bankruptcy. Drink one less 20 oz Coke this year and you've saved the tax.

This deal smells like the ethanol plant deal cooked under the veil of confidentiality until it was well done and then brought out in public. Actually it kinda sounds like the land swap rip-off perpetrated on the County by paid consultant and lobbyist Brian Christianson. No, it is just government welfare for the rich.

SarahB, I found one. The Kerr scholarship. The others listed were scholarships to camps or assistance in winning prizes.
My point remains. Hockey is a sport, where you can win an athletic scholarship.

The city did know about this for some time, but it was kept under wraps due to the request of the investors and the league. For all of your information, Janesville was in competition with other communities for this franchise. Also, the investors are putting up their own money. This is not a free deal or a team that you only need a place and $200k to start. It takes 5 times that, and it also was on shaky ground due to some of the orginal investors backing out when their funding dried up due to the market crash. Not everything kept secret is to hide it from the public. Don't be so paranoid. Madman - are you shacking up with Andreah to be so paranoid?

Ooops...should read like this...

...That still leaves the question of why the city waited THIS long to let any of the people that voted them INTO office know that something was going on.

ilovehockey...

...That still leaves the question of why the city waited THIS long to let any of the people that voted them INTO office that something was going on.

Again, altho I can't say that I'm thrilled about the beer sales for a youth-to-young adult league, it's the timing. Not timing for the economy, just in how it has to be a fast decision.

Oh, just for the record, first off, I will likely never go to a hockey game...just doesn't do anything for me

...second, I don't mind the idea of spending some cash, just hope we get more of an assurance that they'll be here for more than a week or two

...third is that yes, I'd have a beer IF I did decide to try a hockey game...I just hope that they have good beer...Bud light isn't beer, it's just beer colored water.

The city has known about this for awhile. They just chose to release it to the public recently.

While there are so many of you out there that seem to think that Traxler is the answer, what about the other 8-9 months of the year? The ice rink has activities all year. There are literally hundreds of people that use this facility, all year. Stop by sometime. There is open skate, figure skating, high school hockey, Youth hockey, Womens hockey and men's hockey league. The Rink is not sitting empty wasting away.

As for the beer, people honestly, if you don't want to drink don't, but if as an adult I want one, then what business is it of yours? This is a requirement for the league, not just this team.

What I really don't understand is the additional cost for custodian and utilites. If the rink would be open at that time anyway for open skate, wouldn't the cost be the same? It should be a wash, just except for the additional security.

This is an opportunity for the city. If they don't do the renovations now, it will just come up again by the people who already use it. At least this way, there is some revenue to recoup.

Spend the money.......even in these tough times, 200K is not too much to take a chance and do something outside the box. Janesville needs something positive to rally behind and try to make work. Businesses won't locate in Janesville unless things such as this are happening....build it and they will come.

The beer sales aside for the moment, the biggest problem I have is that the hockey league in question is tell us(the city council) that they HAVE to make a decision by Feburary 15th.

While I can understand that the league needs to know for planning, I'd like to think that they could have found a way to let the council(and the rest of us) have some real time to think and research this.

Now that Global Warming is on hold, why not go back to the good ole' days of neighborhood ice rinks. When I was growing up, the ice rinks were all over. I bet it would cost the city 1/100th the cost to do outside ice as Wisconsin Hockey Partners request. Hundreds, if not thousands of a new generation of Janesville kids would actually learn to skate.

"The city would spend about $200,000 to build the team a locker room and offices."
How old is the system ("system" being that which makes the ice and keeps it frozen) in this neglected city facility? If this system is out dated is it possible that upgrades could cost an excess of a million dollars? How much longer will repair parts for an old outdated system be available? Once the $200,000 is spent and a contract is in place for this team, where will the money come from to bring the facility up to date when or if there is a major break down?

localboysince1968: Rational math? How about missing my point, which was that there are more pressing concerns like for example jobs and the cuts we're making in our schools. In addition, your 90% number is irrational, because it doesn't take into account the over 6,000 in town below the poverty level in Janesville that probably work. Of course that was in 2006. I'd say it's safe to assume that number is a great deal higher now. Take a gander at the job market and then tell that 10% it's OK to spend $200,000+ on an ice hockey team that generates nearly no jobs and very little revenue. But hey hotel jobs and McDonald's pay good money. Again if this is such a great idea then they will be able to raise the money on their own. Moreover, for those that mention alcohol not being a factor or pointing out statistics that say it turns people away, then they obviously missed the un-countable number of bars and the fact that nearly every restaurant in town sells alcohol. My guess is alcohol being served is the only way this team would make it, which is unfortunate. If they can front at least some of the renovation money on their own, I'd feel better about this proposal. I love hockey, but the city has many pressing needs right now.

Wake up people. Bill McCoshen is a lobbyist and consultant specializing in Government relations. He has been hired by Cullen and King to pursuade the City to invest in their risky venture.
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If this is such a profitable idea, why are they asking for public money? I can answer that question - because it is too risky for them to put their own money in it.

It is unbelievable that people in this community think that actvities such as the skatepark, the aquatic center, parks and the bike trails do not create revenue. Those things are what attract businesses to a communtiy. Those also bring people from other communites into this one to spend money as well. Parents of many sports spend thousands of dollars for their children to participate. That is your responsiblity to do so as a parent. Just because your child plays hockey, does not make this venture better than the rest.

I think the ice arena should be razed. It has been a money pit since the day it was built. I remember when it was built and the people did not want it then but some council members thought it would bring in Olympic hopefuls to practice- whatever happened to that idea? It is pure luxury and with economic times like this it sheer stupidity to waste money on this. How much money has the ice arena cost us in the 35 years or so it has been in existance... 40 million????? Probably more. Seems like the oudoor rink at Traxler gets more use and costs a few thousand a year to operate.....

Mikki: There are college scholarships for skateboarders. I did a Google search and found at least several of them.

latinmami2, first off, your caps lock key must be stuck.
Second, professional hockey players make big bucks, too. AND you can get a college scholarship for playing hockey.
I have never heard of a child getting a scholarship for skateboarding, sorry.

If it's such a great idea, Wisconsin Hockey Partners should have no problem obtaining financing from the private sector. If it isn't solid enough for them to borrow private funding for, the city DEFINITELY should pass on it.
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If the WHP wants to buy the ice arena from the city, they can apply for a beer license. The city shouldn't be serving beer in a venue targeting an underage for drinking market.

I for one is in favor for the Junior Hockey Team using the Janesville Ice Arena. I had two boys that played ice hockey when they were young at the Janesville Ice Arena. And the oldest one still plays on the mens ice hockey at the ice arena.

It's better money spent on to improve the Janesville Ice Arena, then the bike tunnel, aquatic center.

Holy cow! You people need a reality check. There are tons of great ideas to spend money on. With GM heading out with its tail between its legs, we need to focus on "business" and revenue generating concepts. Skate parks and playgrounds are really nice, but do not create revenue and in a lot of cases, illicit behaviors or activities occur in places like this once people stop looking, causing our community to spend MORE money to police these areas. I've got kids and I want them busy and out of trouble just as much as the next parent. The hockey program struggled for years, yet the talent from this community is amazing and should be highlighted. If it means extra concessions and renovation, then so be it. I have also heard some AAA hockey team may be in the works too which would require these additions AND BRING REVENUE to our city. Hockey families spend thousands of dollars each year in support of their programs and kids, so if anything, Janesville will be a winner! The Council can't do eveything the community wants so they have to pick the greater of many good ideas. As one city engineer told me many years ago why they were cutting down perfectly good trees along my road for future road expansion, "its the price of progress." We can survive and advantange ourselves from this economy taking Beloit as a prime example of rebuilding an economy as they focused on the last 10 years....now its our turn. I am sure the money available to this community will be spread out amongst all sorts of things, some I'm sure I wont like either, but hey, if I needed the feeling of control then I would run for council, but I have to trust the ones we have today. No offense to anyone elses ideas, as these are my own thoughts as well....

makessense,you should change your name, because your comparison's of the beloit brewers team composed of all adult players and a junior hockey league composed of 16 to 20 year old kids does'nt make ANY SENSE and are two different situations. with all the alcohol related problems with young kids these days, what is that showing these young players? that in order to get people to come watch them play we have to sell beer? if we don't sell beer, the place will be empty? nothing but a real negative influence.

i live in rockford but i come from the janesville area, i like that here i can go to a hockey game with my husband for a date night and have fun, but i also like that in the summer my son who is 3 can start on a jr ice hogs hockey team, i also think that along with the hockey they do need to bring in things for the kids to do such as the skate boarding park. busy kids don't seem to find to much trouble to get into since they are not wandering around bored

This city is running in the "red" it can't afford a luxury such as this, or any luxury at this point. My family would love to have things we can't afford at this time. It would be more wise to wait till our economy is in a healthier or more stable situation. Maybe private donations would be the way to raise such money.

The bike tunnel, the children's museum, the skateboard park and the aquatic center would also bring people to this city so they would spend money here. The enchanced quality of life is also a draw for business who wish to locate here. It also gives the children of this community something to DO instead of the adults something to WATCH.

what if the skateboard park give teens a place to be other than in the streets and on the sidewalks at least then they would have a place that is designated for the passion they have, instead of having to do it in more dangerous places. i am all for the hockey thing too, it is a great sport to watch and be involved in as well

The aquatic center , bike tunnel, and skateboard park are ideas that benefit the public for no fee or charge (other than Janesville taxpayers). The Hockey League would require the fans to spend money, and when they spend money, tax revenue is generated. The above mentioned projects do not require you to spend money (other than initial equipment purchases)each time you take advantage of these projects. That is the big difference. That is why I support this project, and I treat this as an investment. I can't rationalize a skateboard park as an ROI opportunity.

UM HEY LOCAL BOY DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL SKATE BOARDERS WHO GET PAID MORE THAN YOU AN I PUT TOGETHER DO. HAVE YOU NOT BEEN WATCHING YOUR MTV CRIBS THEY ALSO HAVE WAY BIGGER HOUSES THAN YOU OR I COULD EVER EVEN DREAM ABOUT

I am for this as long as the same consideration is given to the bike tunnel, the skatepark, the children's museum and the aquatic center. All the above mentioned have received a huge amount of opposition from the taxpayers of Janesville. All have their merits and ALL benefit the city. The only difference is the above mentioned do not belong to a sports team.

"If beer was served, 21 percent said they were more likely and 67 percent said they were less likely to attend a junior A hockey game." This should tell you that people do not prefer that beer be sold at these functions since two-thirds said they were less likely to attend. I agree with SIGNGUY. Why do we need alcohol at an event where 16-20 year olds are participating? As,far as the money, I have mixed feelings on that. I can see both sides of the arguement...sometimes you need to spend money to make money (examples sited by LOCALBOY) but are there more pressing issues that the city's money could be used towards? Have fun debating everyone.

This is a great idea. The ice arena is a dump & could use an upgrade that would benefit all that use it ie(Janesville Youth Hockey). We let the Brewers get away years ago lets not let this chance get away. Also selling beer would be extra revenue that would help. As many of the local softball players know that not selling beer has killed the gold mine the city runs called Dawson Fields.

There is a poll for wanting or not wanting the money to be spent on Yuri Raskins blog-
http://www.yurirashkin.com/

Right now, the for spending is winning.

Several other polls on how you feel about the city right now.

Wait a minute!! Hey let's turn this down like we did the Brewers years ago and let this team end up in Beloit also. And if you remember right' it was because no one wanted to sell beer in puritan Janesville then either!!

Are most of the people leaving these comments forgetting the 600+ people will eat, shop and stay in a hotel while in town. Which will bring in $$ to local businesses which do EMPLOY people! Think outside the box.

tell me why they have to sell beer to watch 16 to 20 year olds play hockey ? what's next beer vendors at tee ball games ?

localboysince1968 - I do believe "back in the day" that football, baseball, hockey and soccer (which is the TRUE football)also started out as "fads". These athletes were not earning "million dollar salaries" at that time. How many professional football, basketball, hockey and baseball teams have left communities high and dry AFTER those communities refused to pay for their million dollar stadiums? If this team wants to locate here AND they think this community would be able to support it, then the TEAM should show good faith and pay for the needed remodeling. At least this way, the would have an incentive to do whatever it is necessary to recoup their investment.

I understand that our new city manager has a son involved in hockey, so he would undoubtedly be aware of the possibilities of this kind of investment. My only question to him and our city council is, can we afford it? It's the same question we all have to ask ourselves daily about many things we would like to buy and do as we struggle through these challenging economic times. Do we need it, is it worth it, can we afford it? Simple questions often have difficult and complex answers. Let's make sure those questions are both asked and answered.

If 10% is out of work, that mean 90% are still working with disposable income. Nice rational math.

By the way, skateboarding is a fad. I wouldn't put any money into something that is a fad. What happened to rollerskating rinks? Maybe we should have constructed a hacky sack stadium too. No, maybe a slinky auditorium. When skateboarding gains the respect that baseball, football, hockey, and soccer do, I will support it. Until then, buy up your baggy clothes now, as they will be only available at the Goodwill within a few years.

"The team would not cost the city money but wouldn't bring in much revenue"
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OK this sentence is funny. Here is how the real sentence should have been written.
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"The team would not cost the city money except for the $29,000 for an architectural firm, $200,000 dollars for renovations, and an expanded parking, but wouldn't bring in much revenue"
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There is absolutely no economical sense to this proposal. It would only bring in a handful of low paying part time jobs for only a portion of the year. Sure they'll sell 700 seats at first, but hockey is not a big Wisconsin sport. The Admiral's can't fill a quarter arena in Milwaukee. Popularity will likely fade. Meanwhile our schools are making cuts. I don't get it. I've said before that I love hockey and would probably go to the games. Two things: First off, 10% of Rock County is out of work and probably can't afford to go to a game. Secondly, if this is such a great idea then let the people making the proposal pay the $200,000 dollars!

This blows my mind. The city can spend 250,000.00 on the ice rink but does not spend a dime on all our local kids who has to use the streets to do any skate boarding. Skate boarding is a one on one sport that does not need any organized teams to have fun. That means the facilities can be used all hours of day. Organized sports such as football, baseball, soccer you name it is played only a couple times a week and a very short season. The skate park can be used year around if there is no snow on the park and in most cases is. Beloit is a good example. That park is in use all the time and at any good time you will see 75 to 100 kids and young adults using the park. Its about time our city uses there money more wisely and consider the 1000's of people who will benefit from this park. The city is spending 1.5 million on the new baseball park and 250 thousand on the ice rink. Users have to pay to use these facilities but the Skate park is free to all users. Contact a city council member and encourage them to build a skate park for the thousands of user. It will never happen unless we as citizens support these young people.

Like I have stated before, in tough economic times, we need to investigate ideas which will generate income, not sit around and only focus on cost cutting ideas. I disagree with Levitt that this would not be a revenue generator. Hotels, restaurants, beer distributors, food distributors, and merchandise sales would generate taxes (how much is up for debate)to put back in to the local economy otherwise that might not be there. The big question is how large of a hockey fan base can this area (Rock, Dane, Green, Walworth and N. Illinois)generate? With appropriate marketing (also by Jvl area convention and visitor bureau), the draw could be viable. I think it is worth the gamble, as it would be a long term payback if successful. We need more ideas like this to offer people the reason to get out and also visit Janesville. In 1919, a couple of meat packers decided to step out and form a sports team under the assualt of detractors. Look at them today. GO FOR IT!!

700 people at every game? Hope the tickets are CHEAP or free because we know the concession stand offerings won't be. This just sounds way too risky to take on right now.

at a time like this we are going to throw away a 1/4 million? Then next year it will need another 100 grand and each year after? If the city has an extra 1/4 million it should go to offset the expected water utility increase!! These people are idiots if they pass this and they should be ousted from office!!

and the school's computer system can wait.