msstalberg: Where were you when my child was in school??? I would have loved to have you for my kid as a teacher. my kid was struggling in a subject in middleschool and the teacher was frustrated and told him that he predicted that he would quit school before age16!!! He still remembers that remark and thinks he's stupid!!! Kudos to you for your encouraging way of teaching, we need more like you. teacher2b: Good Luck in your future career!! and take a lesson from msstalberg, Your future students and parents will appreciate you!

As a retired teacher of thirty five years to make a long objective story short all students
need positive encouragement and reinforcement o
a daily basis starting in kindergarten. I applied it daily and have observed my students perform successfully. I always used three expressions with my students: I am I can I wil and to this day many of my students have contacted me to thank me for caring about their
individaul progress and success in life. So being optimistic and positive is essential for
all student success.

Let's remember the district of Janesville doesn't just throw these students out. This young person will have a chance to return to school next fall after dealing with his/her issues. The district's TATE Center program does an excellent job working with expelled students and helping them return to school and experience success.

Obviously this is not an ideal situation but with the TATE Center, the district can expel these students and the students still have a great chance of being successful in their school career.

Thank Goodness for the TATE Center and the incredible dedication of that staff.

Nurse4u...
Thank you. I see so much negativity on these boards. It is refreshing to see somebody with a positive word of encouragement for somebody who wants to someday make a difference in this crazy world. I don't claim to know all the answers but I do know that through positive discussions here and elsewhere my peers will help me to find what I believe to be the best answers to some very tough questions.

Thank you to everyone who made this a productive discussion.

I firmly believe that elementary children should not have any medications with them at school. Too much of a risk.

TEACHER2B-Good luck in your transition from student to teacher. Your enthusiasm is well received and appreciated.

:)

Crikeys! I cracked another case on here! I am so getting the lead on CSI: Janesville. Horatio Caine doesn't stand a chance! (High 5 SarahB, ihavealife and the others who were part of the last case). Good night all...my husband will be back soon and I have to DECEIVE him into thinking I was working all night. He too has a ZERO TOLERANCE policy.

So we all agree...I was right all along? No surprise there lol. Thanks for playing along

I understand now, teacher2b. We, essentially, feel the same way. Too strict? Yes. The problem still exists that zero tolerance when the administrator of the building enforces it. (Which in my son's case...she did not)

momof5...that is my point. The 5-year-old who brought the Viagra to school would have to be expelled. What kind of system expels a 5-year-old who thinks he is sharing candy? On the other hand most elementary schools don't allow candy either...but expulsion seems kind of extreme. A little common sense should prevail. Which I think was my original point. Zero Tolerance is too strict.

ihavealife....what if a kid just happened to have cough drops, aspirin, or whatever in his backpack from a camping trip and not realizing it was still in there, took the backpack to school and it was discovered?

Too bad so sad....

Are you starting to understand some of the uninteded consequences of such a policy yet?

When it works according to plan it's good. But too often it doesn't...and that's bad.

teacher2b: you are 100% right...it is the adult who let the Viagra get in the hands of a 5 year old. However, under zero tolerance, John would have to be expelled. He had no idea what he was doing and certainly didn't know--just like Jill--that his actions could have catastrophic results.
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Kids, and we all were one once, think they are invincible. So we can educate them about the dangers of taking meds that weren't prescribed for them or OTC drugs via a friend all we want....but the message will get lost, for most, before it hits the inner ear. So, like I said, the easiest way is to remove the human variable from the equation.
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Maybe the Viagra was too extreme of an example. How about NyQuil. My 6th grader feels like junk and her friend, trying to help her out, lets her take a swig of his NyQuil. My 6th grader, having their judgement coulded by hormones and the "kia syndrome" takes a swig of it as if it were a bottle of Pepsi. She ends up in the ER.... Yes, she's an idiot for taking it. But, she would never have been able to take it if her friend didn't have it at school to begin with.
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I was also shocked that my son should have been the one expelled for the gun incident. The other little tyke who brought it to school the next day? Nothing. Interesting....

Momof5,

you are now talking about one of two things...either a horrible accident that would not have been prevented by rules because the kindergartener didn't know he was passing out meds, or a kindergartener who is about to be expelled for dispensing narcotics on the playground. And to answer the question, it is the fault of whoever let a Viagra get into the hands of a 5 year old!

And ihavealife, I agree that every second counts, and obviously I would feel horrible for Mary at that point. But it is still her own fault for taking medicine without knowing what it would do to her. Children need to be educated about this stuff, not expelled because of zero tolerance policies.

And by the way, under zero tolerance policies, no one would have to TAKE anything. Just POSSESSING it would be enough.

darwin: when we were kids...those were the simpler times. A friend of mine had his son suspended (out of school) for an entire week because he "shorts" his buddy. When I was a kid, this was an all the time occurence. Does that mean it was right? No. But, while we have become so tolerant of some things, we have become much more intolerant of others. Good or bad? Only time will tell.....

teacher2be...you are correct in your assessment of what a true zero tolerance policy is. There is no room for interpretation or individual application. They are, by nature, written to cover all circumstances equally across the board, and that is an impossibility.

What many here seem to be wishing for is a "hy-brid" zero tolerance policy, but by definition that is not possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolera...

ihavealife: a little bossy aren't we? lol
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where's my reinforcement, localboy, when I need him!...btw...they are Wusthof knives.

teacher2b: I think I know you. Message me.
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Mary did take it on her own. But, Jill doesn't have the knowledge to be handing out meds. So, your 4 year old goes to school next year--kindergarten. His bff, John, gives him a blue tic tac. Your son, Junior, has a heart condition and is rushed to the hospital after recess. Doctors, after running a tox screen, determine that blue tic tac was much more toxic to a 5 year old than meets the eye, since Bob Dole is NOT the spokesperson for Tic Tac :) (for those who aren't as commercial savvy as I...Bob Dole, blue tic tac= Viagra)
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Who's fault is it?

Zero tolerance usually means zero intelligence. It is an indication of a corrupt system when you have to say to kids that the rule of law is more important than the truth. It truly demonstrates how little control the adults have over the children in a school. We have rules to help us achieve our goals not for the sake of having rules. This is why we have a court system. What schools should have is a pseudo court system otherwise your simply teaching children to tolerate an elected oligarchy that is only accountable during an election year.

When I was a kid every boy carried a pocket knife of some kind. We were just smart enough not to pull them out during school.

Mary took it on her own either way. The only difference is where she got it from.

Yes, and I plan on being a middle school teacher so I guess I better figure this out!


Ok, if Jill gave it to Mary and Mary didn't know she couldn't take it without having a reaction to it, how is that any different than Mary running to the store at lunch and then taking it because Jill said it worked so well?

I don't see how it's Jill's fault if you take her medicine without knowing what it is. It is your body and it is your responsibility to know what goes into it. If Jill held you down and forced a Midol down a throat (believe me I've thought of doing that to my wife before lol) then it would be her fault.

And yes, I have a 4 year old and a soon to be 3 year old

teacher2b: you're not making me angry. I'm attempting the same as you: debate and food for thought. As for the menstural relief (I should have used relief instead of anti...wouldn't that be nice though! Pop a pill to be rid of it entirely! lol) anyhow.... there is nothing stopping "me" from buying Midol or Pamprin (I forget which one has it) and taking it myself. But, if I took it myself, then that is my fault. If my bff Jill gave it to me, I guess the culpability lies on her because she shouldn't have turned her locker into a pharmacy--she doesn't know the ingredients, their purposes, proper dosage, interactions etc.., Anaphylactic shock is nothing to mess around with: which is why many schools do not allow peanuts/butter in their lunchrooms or classrooms during snack. Easiest way to solve a problem: remove the possibility of it from the equation.
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I'm just curious, teacher2b, do you have kids?
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madman: I'd card you....your typing looks younger than that of a 21 year old. LOL
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I suspect that Janesville will pay attention to its heroin epidemic when someone with the "right" last name ODs or when it those who say "it can't happen to me" finally has it happen to them. A cop friend once told me that the largest demographic who use meth are stay at home mom's and it is often manufactured in small communities. Drug problems are not for large cities or confined to "the hood"--which means Janesville is NOT immune to it, contrary to what some believe.

Can anyone posting help me with this request? The Gazette ran an editorial column yesterday (Friday 01/16/2009) regarding heroin. I do not subscribe to the newspaper and did not get a chance to purchase a copy of the edition. If anyone here gets the E-edition, I would sure love to get a look at a "cut and paste" of the editorial. Please, can somebody help me out here?

As of the last few times I've bought beer at Pick N Save, they still card everyone.

I'm not young and I don't look young, and they still card me.

Oh, well...I'm used it now

Thanks gazettefan.

This works much better.

teacher2b, for making paragraph spaces:

At the end of paragraph hit the RETURN key as usual, then hit the SPACE BAR, then it's ready to begin your next paragraph.

A space is a character.

Wow, that was really long. Sorry about that. Plus I just realized why people put a random punctuation marks between paragraphs. I guess that's the first time I tried to leave a space between my thoughts but apparently those magically disappear.

no, momof5, I do not work at the Pick N Save and actually I have never actually bought alcohol there either now that I think about it. But I do remember reading about that policy in the paper a few years back and it caused some controversy...maybe they dropped it?

Also, in the case of the anti-menstrual medication, if you are talking about prescription medicine, I believe I would agree 100% with you. But if you are talking about over-the-counter medicine, what is to prevent you from going to the store and buying the medicine your friend is talking about because it worked so well for her? Either way you should be smart enough to know what you are putting in your body before you take it.

As for the molded plastic guns...I'm not sure the answer there. Obviously they were toys and not weapons. On the other hand, in the world we live in today, maybe these kids need to understand how serious weapons are and that weapons are not toys and maybe these kids need the "bejesus" scared out of them too before the behavior escalates.

I hope I'm not making you angry, momof5. I really don't know the answers and I'm just trying to play a little devil's advocate here to get some discussion going. As a future teacher of our young ones, I really wish to educate myself on the things that aren't taught in school so I can be prepared for these kind of discussions when I have an opportunity to make a difference.

madman: bingo!

I don't look my age, let alone 70+ plus like Bob Uecker....but I haven't been carded...even at Pick-n-Save. So, teacher2b, if you work at PNS, you may want to have a talk with your co-workers for not doing their jobs.
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No matter what the policy is, zero tolerance, 3 strikes, card under 39, etc.., the policy is only as strong as the person enforcing it. Period.

teacher2b: you are so wrong. I believe, in most cases, that zero tolerance is the best solution. A 7 year old bringing a piece of soft plastic molded to resemble (loosely) a gun--for Pete's sake they were wacky colors too--pink camo, orange and black polka dot, etc..,--is not, IMO, a case that should fall under zero tolerance. These "guns" were 5x3 and had a hole that the water went in and out of. I'm just thankful that our district has administrators who are entrusted enough to use common sense.
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I understand, and dare I say support, the zero tolerance policy being applied to medicines. I'm allergic to non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications. What if I were a 14 year old girl, asked my bff Jill to loan me an anti-menstural medication. I took it and went into anaphylactic shock because it contained an NSAID--ibuprofen. This policy, IMO, was designed to designed to prevent as many "tragedies" such as that by scaring the bejesus out of the kids because of the punishment.

Just for the record, I also believe that zero tolerance is too strict and that common sense should prevail. I was just explaining to momof5 what my understanding of such a policy was. It sounds to me that what momof5 wants is a zero tolerance policy that is not enforced, which in my opinion is worse than not having a policy at all.

IMO-Zero Tolerance is a bit over the top. Common sense should always prevail. For instance-momof5's child brought goodie treats to school with a mold that had the shape of a gun. So this child should be expelled and embarrassed and not allowed to participate in school? Please.
If that was the case, how come my son was allowed and encouraged to bring a home made bow & arrow to school for a book report?
I grew up on the Southside of Chicago. We had metal detectors in our schools because of the gang violence. I understand the rational for Zero Tolerance, but I agree that common sense should prevail.

Well, my son was not expelled. The principal called us both and explained the situation and said "normally he would be expelled, but because this was innocent, I am not prompoting this any further." I volunteer in the classroom each week and when I saw his teacher, I apologized for the confusion and drama. Her response? "It really wasn't a big deal. I told the kids to put them in their backpacks after they took out one piece of candy." She was MORE worried about the kids overloading themselves on candy than the supposed weapons. Unfortunately, the next day when the OTHER CHILD brought his back to play with it, there was a substitute and she freaked out about it and sent it to the principal's office.
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So, atleast in our district, zero tolerance isn't zero tolerance. SOME discretion is left to the administrators. And, by the way, we live in a district where they are CRIMINALLY prosecuting kids for a hate crime, so it's not like we have a bunch of "softies" around here.
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And, I know that Janesville, while the claim to be zero tolerance is not either. I knew someone who was expelled for having a gun in his car...even though it wasn't his and he didn't know. But, at the same school, a girl was caught with drugs in her car--she ratted out her boyfriend--and she got nothing. The gun incident produced a medical school student who is already a nurse and the drug incident produced a teenage mother who is also addicted to heroin. My point? Expulsion doesn't always equate to gllom and doom for the rest of the student's life. If they were a "good kid" before, they will be a good kid after.

momof5,

Zero Tolerance policies eliminate common sense by definition. Under a zero tolerance policy for weapons and look alike weapons, you son would have been expelled for bringing the "weapons" to class for a treat with no questions asked.

It's kind of like when you buy a case of beer at Pick N Save. It doesn't matter how old you are, you will get carded. This is too stop the cashiers from using their own judgement in the situation. Common sense says that you don't card Bob Uecker for a case of beer because he is 70 years old and looks every bit of it. But common sense isn't allowed, so even Ueck would be carded at the Pick N Save.

oops...should read like this...
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momof5...
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...because the morons that write this "cover the districts butt with asbestos" DRIBBLE are elected officials that only want to be re-elected.
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Think congress on a smaller scale.

momof5...
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...because the morons that write this "cover the districts butt with asbestos" are elected officials that only want to be re-elected.
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Think congress on a smaller scale.

madman: I understand that. So, my question is why can't common sense be used while drafting these policies?

momof5...
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...the problem comes because the way school boards/districts write the zero tolerance policies is that the people on the pointy end of the lance...teachers,principals, etc...have their hands tied...they aren't ALLOWED to use common sense. If they try to, they can be subject to being slapped down.
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So after litte Janey gives her friend an asprin or little Johnny gives his friend a piece of candy that looks like a cigarette and you and I would remind them that that's against the rules and maybe give them a little punishment...read the rules again, write a short paper on following the rules, whatever...the teacher involved CAN'T do the smart thing because somebody downtown decided that any break of the rules with drugs WILL result in being expelled, no questions and no explainations, just busted.

My ex-husband bought my 1st grader a treat to take to school for his birthday. It had plastic molded squirt guns in the goodie bag. The mold happened to resemble a gun. there is NO way it could have been mistaken for an actual gun. Well, one of his classmates brought it to school the next day to play with at recess. Guess who SHOULD HAVE been expelled?? Yep. My son. I agree with zero tolerance HOWEVER that does not been common sense should be discarded.

Yes, G-fan, I agree. Good post and relevant here. Love the phrase, "...nurtured psychopathology...". Ha!

good post gfan

ihavealife..."Do you also believe a student that gets arrested twice (for pot) deserves to get a scholarship for $5000."
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That is not what zero tolerance is about.
Zero tolerance is about taking common sense out of the equation and arresting an elementary student for giving a fellow student a cough drop...or arresting a Jr. High girl for giving her girlfriend a Midol tablet...
these are true cases, and the list goes on.
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THAT, unfortunately is what zero tolerance leads to. What's needed is common sense but alas, that can't be legislated.

as we're all aware i will blog about pot as much as i can. i gots the time;) and id much rather have someone point out that my assumptions are wrong, and in fact alcohol at school will get you expelled than hear the 'get a life kid' posts. at least thats an intelligent convo...which i think is what most of us are here for. i know theres no answer to this. i am not looking to solve the problem on the gazettextra as much as i am looking to just open someones eyes...and LEARN FOR MYSELF what the anti-potters see. maybe the kid(not me again;) does get expelled for alcohol consumption on school grounds. then gets home and turns on the tv and watches a sporting event and sees, what he just got in trouble for, glorified. we wonder why it seems like the morals/values of our kids are backwards these days.

I too used to be one of those parents who looked down their nose at others whose kids were doing wrong things,untill my child got involved with drugs and alcohol in middleschool! believe me we were very involved parents, told our kids about why you don't do drugs,stayed in touch with them and took our parenting seriously. My 2 other kids turned out just fine. but this one had a mind of his own! We did not however let him get away with it. There were consequences for his actions and he was disciplined as well as sent to counseling (which he wanted to go). We are hopefully past this and try to keep intouch with him at all times,but he does have a choice and if he chooses wrong there should be consequences!! The drugs are readily available to the kids there and nobody is the wiser. I don't feel sorry for this kid, he should have consequnces because he did wrong! There may be other things going on at home but he still made a choice. and by that age you can't tell me they don't know right from wrong!

Interesting how this has turned from an argument about how to handle kids that break the laws/rules at school to an argument about pot v. alcohol

The kid, you claim to have an assumption about what happens to a student possessing or using alcohol at school and I would interested to hear how wrong your assumption is. I know of a students both expelled and suspended for using alcohol at school.

The school board and expulsion officer do take many factors into account when making the decision to expel a student. Their past behavior does matter (similar to a court of law). 1st time possession for a student will few disciplines and good grades is treated differently than 1st time for a truant, classroom behavior issue failing most of their classes.

I believe the district does a good job of differentiating betweenn the student who made a stupid decision versus the student who is a consistant problem and may need more services.

AGAIN, the district set-up the TATE Center to help kids who get into serious trouble and/or have become consistant behavior issues at school. The purpose of explusion, in my opinion, is not to simply kick a student out of school but to encourage them to WAKE-UP and perhaps get the help (often counseling) they need.

As for the pot debate, the reality is pot is illegal and alcohol is not. I don't think we should be teaching our students to ignore the rules they feel are "wrong" or "unfair". Teaching our students to be critical thinkers and how to work within the system to change unjust laws is an important lesson. Unfortunately many students and adults feel they can simply ignore some laws - they are above some laws - and they forget about the consequences. We can all choose to do anything but some actions result in consequences - that is the lesson our young students have often forgotten.

Oh, and if a student can't go 8 hours without pot then their is a HUGE issue. Pot does not belong in our schools, PERIOD, end of story.

ihavealife..."Zero tolerance needs to mean ZERO TOLERANCE in this school district !!! WE all owe it to our children."
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Careful what you wish for.
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Educate yourself on the debacle of ZERO TOLERANCE before you actually wish it to be .

Just a thought about the "selling" part, Kid...as I'm sure you're aware, often the "intent to deliver" has nothing to do with delivery or selling, just the contraband being in multiple containers or packages. I'm not sure if the school system uses quantity for adding the intent tag or not.
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The daughter of a friend was expelled a couple years ago with the "intent to deliver" tag...because she had TWO joints, therefore, the school decided that she was going to sell them, not use them for herself.
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And no, there is no "fair and balanced" trial for drugs in school...if they want to hang you, you're hung.

Isn't that where parenting should come in. Too many parents worry only about themselves, or think it's better to be a "friend" than to teach right from wrong. This child probably has a home life that would shock most of us.

i agree with that too 110% i am not denying the kid(not me:) was selling pot. or even in possession. and i dont know what would happen if a kid got caught selling alcohol at school. i have a strong suspicion i know. this kid could have been a trouble maker im just saying its sad that we demonize one and not the other. demonize marijuana to a 14 year old all day. i will stand beside you. but let that same kid watch a super bowl and see nothing but half naked chics wrestling in mud while the dudes watch?? and then we blog about a drunk driving epidemic in this city/state/country. this is what i find tiresome...

thekid,

I understand the logic of what you are saying, and usually your logic is dead on. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it. That being said I think it needs to be pointed out that the child was not expelled for possession, the child was expelled for possession on school grounds.

Not only that, but it is not up to the school board to decide whether or not pot is worse for you than alcohol. It is up to the school board to follow the rules and regulations that exist.

I'm pretty sure possession or use of alcohol at school wouldn't warrant an expulsion, but I'm not sure about distribution of, or intent to deliver, alcohol.

I am also unaware as to what would happen to a student who is caught in possession of or using pot but not selling.

One more thing. Usually and expulsion is not a knee jerk reaction to a one time problem. Usually the child is a repeat offender and has had counseling, etc., but shows no signs of being a productive student and the expuslion is supposed to be a bit of a wake up call.

seabee why is it easier for you to ridicule than think about what im saying?? mikki i agree 110%. my point is why does this kid get expelled for possession with intent to deliver. NOT USING MIND YOU. POSSESSION. but kids can go to beer partys on the weekend drive all over the county, PROBABLY EVEN GET ARRESTED FOR OWI without getting expelled. we have a drunk driving EPIDEMIC in this state and our 16 year old gets a slap on the wrist for underage drinking, or even driving after drinking. wanna put a dent in the drunk drivers?? expell the next kid who gets caught drinking. TEACH THOSE ILLEGAL DRUG USERS TOO that there are consequences for their actions. yes, punish those that break the law, but punish them adequately.

Kid, I understand where you are coming from. If adults want to smoke pot, they have the right to do so, as they are aware of the consequences of their actions (it being illegal at this time).
However, a child needs to learn that certain behaviors are not acceptable. They need to be made aware of the laws.
Whether or not you agree with the legalization of marijuana, at this point in time, it is illegal. So kids need to respect that. Otherwise, their future will be in question.
Give these kids some drug cases and their educational, not to mention their employment futures will be affected.

Sorry for the spelling, i'm numb with cold.

So, the gazette blog site has becoming a networking site for the local stoners??? They musy be proud.

thank you johndoe. i have no doubt logic will win out. no doubt.

this is tiresome to you?? good. i get way more emails from complete strangers telling me to keep up what i do than uninformed posts i see telling me to do 'something useful with my life'. in fact ive got more friends who ive smoked with who i met thru my posts on this website than ive seen of the 'useful with my life'. if you notice my post, as most my posts, has nothing to do with me liking weed so much as say...logic. if you want to take the time to reply to my posts as you did, why not post a valid response to my question?? why is one demonized while the other is glorified??

Actually. kid, your comments are not tiresome at all. That's because you are one of the few posters that actually make sense and can articulate your position. That never gets old.

kid, what is rediculous is your never ending crusade to spew your idiocy on these blogs. We GET it! You like weed! We KNOW already! Now, do something usefull with your life and MOVE ON! It is getting tiresome, dude.

I think many people are not aware of how disruptive these kids are. The teachers and schools give them many chaces before they are expelled. Also just because they are not in school, that doesn't mean they aren't recieving some form of education.

less drug dealers?? ASSUMING this kid is a 'drug' dealer, cuz sarahb has a more than valid point, all this does is open up a business opportunity for some other kid. you dont think this scares the kids who are ALREADY dealing do you?? dillusional. i am not, and have never said its ok for a minor to smoke pot or consume ANY type of intoxicant. but how many high school kids get busted for drinking on the weekends?? what about the kid who buys a case and sells a six pack to three buddies?? that to is illegal. why not expel them?? ITS THE SAME THING. how many high schoolers do you know that have died from pot vs alcohol?? he should be punished...but its ridiculous that one drug is demonized and OVER punished while the other one(the killer) is glamorized and UNDER punished.

thisisme

You completely missed many of the details of the story and obviously didn't read my post about the TATE Center.

This student will be on probation, will get counseling and will have the opportunity to continue his education in a different setting. He/she will also be expelled from dannces, sports and attending all school related functions.

I strongly believe the district has a good balance of sending a strong message - expulsion yet not dismissing any student because of a mistake. This student will be counted and if he/she can improve his/her behavior and learn from this mistake will have the opportunity to graduate with his/her classmates.

The TATE Center provides specific programming/education to help young people learn from their mistakes and make better decisions in the future. The district knows this and uses it to help kids while protecting the ones who are at school for an education.

The TATE Center has a pretty good success rate which means students like this one has a pretty good chance at success.

thisisme--
he/she has the opportunity to return next fall if counseling is taken seriously and he/she stays clean
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I say thank you to SDJ for not exposing hundreds of students to the opportunity to by drugs. We have a huge pot, cocaine, and heroine problem in this town, the less drug dealers we have in school the better. I applaud the school board for standing up for the vast majority of the middle schooler's who just want to go to school in a safe building. This child will be followed up and has every opportunity to succeed (see below) and our middle schooler's are not exposed to drugs. Win Win in my book!

I completely agree that bringing drugs to school is wrong and there should be punishment for it including counseling and rehab, but really... what is taking him out of school going to do besides put him on the worse path. I have known many kids who have made the wrong choice to bring drugs or alcohol to school and regret it. Not only does expelling them for a long period of time take them away from their friends, but it also gives them the lack of education needed to get somewhere in the world. We all make choices that we wish that we hadn't. Why not involve the parents more (fines), put the kids in rehab and counseling and allow them to go to school under supervision. Probation is a prime example of supervision. Drug testing, individual locker checks, all these can be done with the resources that the schools already have, but do not use in productive ways. Do schools not realize that they are only hurting themselves when it comes to the "count" days... I am apalled at the fact that they expel the kids for a full school year plus a part of another... This is rediculous and a contributor to delinquency.

Here's the difference between the Janesville school district and another one in the area. At an elementary school in this other district, a student is prone to violence. He has a history of hitting and kicking other students after little or no provocation. In one incident, he is being unruly and the teacher attempts to remove him from the room. He becomes very violent, punching the teacher and throwing a chair. This is not an isolated incident but just another in an ongoing series of outbursts. Punishment for that outburst was 2 days of in school suspension. Personally, I see that student's behavior as more of a threat to other students than bringing drugs to school.
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Several students in the class are daily in fear of what he'll do next. It took over a month just to get him transferred to a different classroom. Rather than place him in some type of behavioral treatment class, it appears they are just "passing the buck" to a different teacher. I fully expect to see this kid's name in the newspaper a few years from now, having committed an even more serious act of violence.
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It seems to me that common sense would dictate that a middle school age child knows possessing and/or dealing drugs is against the law. This doesn't appear to be a case where the child wasn't cognitively developed enough to appreciate the difference between right and wrong. He made a conscious choice to bring drugs to school. However, I do doubt he appreciates the gravity of the punishment given to him (expulsion) and how it may affect him later in life. I'd rather see him being placed into some type of detention facility while continuing his education. That way, working under the assumption that rehabilitation is feasible and the end result, he can move on to be a productive member of society.
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If he's bringing drugs to school in such quantity that he is charged with intent to deliver, I somehow doubt receiving an education was a top priority of his to begin with. So, let's take the opportunity to teach him the error of his ways.

Let's remember the district of Janesville doesn't just throw these students out. This young person will have a chance to return to school next fall after dealing with his/her issues. The district's TATE Center program does an excellent job working with expelled students and helping them return to school and experience success.

Obviously this is not an ideal situation but with the TATE Center, the district can expel these students and the students still have a great chance of being successful in their school career.

Thank Goodness for the TATE Center and the incredible dedication of that staff.

Make an example out of the student. Expel them. Try and get through to them while their still young.

This is one of those dilemmas with no ideal solution. The school board's handling of it seems perfectly reasonable to me. They clearly outlined steps prerequisite to reinstatement and, if the student demonstrates a good faith effort to improve, they will consider giving him or her a second chance. In some school districts, expulsion is final and permanent. On the other hand, a more tolerant approach could be construed as enabling illegal activity and would send the wrong message to the majority of students, who are making the effort and doing the right thing.

First, I am absolutely not condoning this student's behavior. However, the story does not specifically say the subject was dealing drugs. The "intent to deliver" part of the charge is often tacked on whenever the amount of substance recovered is above the very minimum. Whether that is the case here, I do not know.

Chemical(imbalance)6- There is no need to re-type half of the story in your posts when trying to make a point. We all read the article, dummy. Did you ever think that maybe they print these articles to try and send a message to these kids? If you choose to make stupid decisions and get caught it's going to be a pain in the butt to get back on track. This whole procedure is nothing new. They are just making it more public. Try and keep up.

This is a middle school student who appears to be dealing drugs! Middle school students are between 12 and 14 years old...doesn't matter who you blame, the problem is very deep and needs every bit of assessment and counseling that can be mustered. I too hope that somebody (PARENTS) invests in this child, but that's not the role of public education.
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Every child is entitled public education until you choose to do something like this - then it's a privelege you earn back. The tax dollars don't go far enough to expect districts to be the all encompassing institution for kids ages 4 to 21. The district is right in trying to create a "learning environment" and enforcing the law.

One side of me says this kid needs rehab some type of stay in school, tough love, slap up side the head(I hear the liberals screaming already) the other side of me thinks that parents failed miserably and should have to deal with their mistakes as being parents. The problem is that there is parents that don't care they are products of expulsion them selves so we breed a catch 22 problem. If a stay in school counseling problem would fix the next generation from being dead beats I'm all in. The reality is life is full of choices and people have the choice to be a part of the system or society.

Anonomouse, I agree with you. Also, a child with behavior problems often takes so much time away from the other children that it becomes unfair to the rest of the class. The teacher's time is spent on things which are not "teaching", often just managing the child in question. Every child has the right to an education. But what should happen when a child's behavior begins to take away from the rights of others? Special programs are an answer for some. When the behavior becomes a safety or health issue, maybe more intervention is needed.

You have to blame the parents and kid so they go get the help they need. No child should be missing out on an education because their parents didn't tell them to say "no" and if the parents did and the kid still used drugs they should have known the kid needs help.

I'm not quite sure what is accomplished by placing blame on anyone. Sure, you can "blame" the kid, but you can also "blame" a dog for peeing on your best rug. Either way, you want to set up some behavior incentives and choices. That's what this program does. The kid and his parents are responsible for making the changes, but if they don't, there is no free lunch. So, yes, it may not "solve" the problem, but it isn't designed to be an external force magically "solving" the problem. It's a set of choices and incentives, much like adult life will be. The only difference is they're set down in black and white.

The schools can't be blamed for this. Place the blame where it belongs, on the parents shoulders, they should be educating and disciplining these children and if all else fails its there responsibility to get their children help. Schools exist to educate our children not to be babysitters or surrogate parents.

chemical_6: Wow, how the ignorance flows! It is not the schools job to reform children. Schools are there to provide an education. What programs are you referring to? Special Education does deal with behavioral issues but drug dealing is beyond that. Don't we lock those people up if they are adults? I know, your argument is that he/she is a child and they make mistakes. I agree with that to a point. The problem is that schools start at a very young age talking about drugs and how bad they are. By the time they reach middle school they already know this. At this point in their life there has to be consequences to their actions. Just because he is kicked out of the mainstream public schools doesn't mean he/she can't go to school. Isn't that what we have charter schools for?

maybe if this kid's parents put him/her on "Super Nanny" he/she will get help. According to some on these blogs Super Nanny is the answer.

So what do you think they should do to try and get this kid turned around, Chemical? Exactly what does "one step at a time" mean? They have good cause to expell him or her. He's or she's bringing drugs into the school and dealing to other students. Their options are limited and they only have certain resources they can turn to. They do what they can do. After that it's up to the kid to make the most or least of it.

Billnewbie – I have to disagree with you. If someone does not want to smoke pot, they won’t. No one can make you do something that you do not want to do. I think that taking the child out of the school system is only going to make it worse. That and they have programs within schools that offer a separate learning atmosphere for troubled kids. Also, it says nothing about his behavior in the classroom, only what he was charged with, (or she).
If the school was that concerned with the outcome of this child they would keep the child in school and work on the programs while he was attending, rather than kick him out and give him programs that he has to complete before he can come back… especially if this is the first violation… second chances should be given. It’s only pot, it’s not a gun. But that arguments a smoking gun…. Isn’t it.

What about the other students? Don't they deserve some consideration? Separating this expelled child from its classmates is exactly the right thing to do. It pressures that child's parents to deal with their progeny while removing a detriment to education from the classroom.

Well I am surprised that Kinshon has not commented and said this child must not have a father in their life. It is sad that our children are doing what they are doing single parent home or not the remaining parent needs to take control. Raising two children, alone I know how hard it can be and hindsight is 20/20 but my kids were not in trouble and I could have spent more time with them instead of working. I hope we can come up with better ways to help the children starting with the parent and sending them to classes to learn parenting maybe, we should have more parenting classes in school before our children have children. I know I could have used some good advice when I was younger and trying to raise my kids. I am grateful they are both good people who give to others.

“….may apply for early reinstatement as early as September 2009 after undertaking a drug/alcohol assessment, getting counseling, completing the Prime for Life anti drug/alcohol course and completing the Truancy Abatement and Transitional Education program, if it is available….”
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That seems like a lot to have to do just to go back to school. I love how they think that this stuff is just going to turn the kid around and make them see the err of their ways. I am sorry, but I went thru alcohol assessment for an underage drinking ticket when I was 15…. I still drank.
Especially living in Rock County where no matter where you stand, you are at least three minutes from a bar or liquor store.
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Also, what the crap is the counseling for?? Is the kid depressed? …. Well maybe now that they got caught…
I think that they should take one step at a time, and expelling a child is not the answer… what happened to “no child left behind”?? The child makes a mistake and we just kick them out for a year and a half?? Good idea, so they can sit around at home and figure out more ways to stir up trouble because they are not in school. Hopefully the kids parents are actively handling this situation….