Likewise, sprout. Happy New Year.

Can I have a railroad tie also? Need it to help make fire pit square.

Yes, when you said, "take a rail road tie" to us, I am sure you meant that you were giving us a gift of the rail road tie... Like, a neighborly gesture? Here, have a railroad tie. Happy New Year. LOL

Sprout- very angry... I assumed that Darwin1 is being sarcastic with that comment.... Replying to something that another said.

Rail road tie? Really? You would rather kill Darwin1 and I than deport us? Again, "from sea to shining sea"..... You admit that you want to murder us for having differing opinions. You DO know that you aren't helping your "side" but your hate-filled comments and threats?

Sprout- really? Because someone doesn't agree with you they are uneducated and should be exiled from their home country? Boy, do I hear "from sea to shining sea" in that remark. Proud American are you... LOL

sprout: It should be written "who" and not "that". At least that is how the "educated" do it.

Tie the insurance to the vehicle and the problem is solved.

We should deport all the uneducated natives and seize their property because they are a burden to us educated, tax paying, working people.

But then who would watch Glenn "I dropped out of college after five weeks" Beck?

916WI SAID, "No one is suggesting that we end immigration all together."
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Really, then why was this posted by SOMEONE, "And for those who think all LEGAL immigration is simply marvelous, how about this from the State Journal Friday?"
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So my rambling, as you call it, was in response to SOMEONE after all.
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BTW, I apologize for rambling. I should remember that some people can't digest more than a couple sentences at a time. Especially when those sentences force them to think.
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Did you ask ICEMAN and SG to "stop rambling"? or just people you disagree with?

Do you have a link or any proof that "The greatness of this country is the diversity" ?
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Shop,
Nope, no link or proof just my observation and opinion.
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Think about it, unless the USA was either never formed or someone just remained Brits (impossible since NA were already here)...the USA has always had diversity.
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This country took from every other country and formed a very unique society. Other countries don't have that. We have traditions from England, Germany, France, Italy, China, Japan, Mexico, Spain, Africa, etc...
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How great is that?

*Wow, zettrdr, I'm assuming that you're talking about how white European immigrants harmed the Native American tribes here. Unless you claim tribal affiliation, NONE of us can claim that we are native to this land.*

No human beings are native to the Americas. Humans either walked [Bering land bridge] or rowed here.

ladulce.....an illegal alien being married to an American citizen would be the exception rather than the norm. I think a safe bet would be that under 5% of the total population of illegal aliens can claim to be married to a US citizen. Seizures on a case by case basis of this small segment could easily be accomplished. Although it is easy to argue that the American citizens should not have aided these criminals to begin with.
With regards to the seizures, obviously the property would be sold. It makes absolutely no sense for you to say that selling the seized property would hurt our economy. Our government is already very experienced with doing this(IRS delinquent tax sales/auctions for seized property from other crimes, etc) just roll this into it and fund the deportation expenses with it. As far as the kids of the illegal aliens, if the parents choose to abandon their kids when they get deported, then they would be better off in a foster family here regardless. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority would choose to take their kids with them making this a non issue as well. What we cannot lose sight of is that these people CHOSE to break the law from day one, they do not deserve any special consideration.....

A threat on roads? What? they are a threat to our society in general, no liscense, no insurance, no drivers training, look out, you have to watch no matter where you go!
When the insurance requirement kicks in in 2010, maybe the cops can bag lots of money stopping them because they do not believe in insurance!

The main problem is that they are uninsured as well. That is one of the main reasons, states like Arizona and Texas have some of the highest insurance premiums. If this continues norther states will also see a rise in premiums. Not to mention what happens when an uninsured motorist hurts someone and medical bills become a problem.

916- In your scenario, what would happen with possessions owned in cooperation with an American citizen? For example, a married couple (And NO you are not automatically a citizen when you marry one and are still illegally in the US) with one citizen spouse and one undocumented? Also, what happens to the US Citizen children? You have state before that they SHOULD go with the parents, but, they are citizens and can't be forced from the country. And, anything that is "seized" is- what- sold? In our already crawling economy, you think the addition of x number of homes for sale would HELP us out of this depression?

Whythink...Please stop rambling and stay on point. No one is suggesting that we end immigration all together. What is being suggested is that all of the illegal aliens-who are breaking the law just by being here--be removed from the country. We should seize all of their assets(as they were criminals the instant they entered this country) to help cover the expense of sending them back. After that, go after the people who are hiring them....

"Our "American Way of Life" in my opinion isn't under attack. The greatness of this country is the diversity." ----whythink @ 9:14 am 12/29

Do you have a link or any proof that "The greatness of this country is the diversity" ?

What is the American way of life?

I would posit that it is living in accordance with the laws of the land, guided by our Constitution. We have, for something over 200 years, been a relatively homogenous society, bound together by a common language and a shared ethos of work, family, and freedom.
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That may be what it was from a white or European point of view.
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I wonder, how would that definition change for and African American say 70 years old.
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How about an American Indian? Same age.
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Our "American Way of Life" in my opinion isn't under attack. The greatness of this country is the diversity. Yes, illegal immigration is a problem...I am not addressing that.
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The assimilation comment is a joke. How could an African American familoy assimilate going to inferior schools, not being able to vote, being paid and treated as less than whites?
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How about the Native Americans? How well did we assimilate with them? Besides Casinos?
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I am hoping this country has improved to the point where it is willing to recognize its past mistakes and move forward with a bit more of an open-mind.
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Every small town in the area has a celebration for its (usually) European connection. How about non-European/white celebrations? How about we recognize that not everyone in this country is white? How about we recognize that not every hispanic is illegal? How about the USA today, is more tolerant and forgiving of language barriers than it was for many of our ancestors?
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Throughout our great history we have discriminated against those different from us (whatever dominant group that was). For example, the Irish weren't exactly welcomed to this country.
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When will that stop?

frogger: Your name sounds German to me. Are you here legally? I sure can't tell.

Illegal immigrants are allowed to drive without a license and not be held accountable because law enforcement is not allowed to ask them about their citizenship. If they were found to be in this country illegally, INS could make sure that it did'nt happen again.

"Frogger- are you looking at a Latino name and assuming they are illegal? Are you freakin' kidding me?"
It would be hard to tell if he was legal or not I said because of all the fake documents. I dought the name Jane Doe would be from Mexico.

Frogger- are you looking at a Latino name and assuming they are illegal? Are you freakin' kidding me? Furthermore, they are not felons the firs time they are caught. In reality, the first offense is treated as a misdemeanor. Returning AFTER deportation COULD BE considered a felony, but, there are variables that contribute to whether it is or not. WHY are they not being deported? Well, let's see: IF they are deported today, they will be back in a week or less. That is a waste of tax payer dollars since there is NOTHING keeping them there. Yes, I agree that if you are here illegally and caught committing a crime that you should get the big boot out of here, but, it is pointless until we have some type of border security that works.

SuperDave- it is a global market. Most things that we buy are in English, Spanish, French, and, Chinese, and, are mostly MADE in China. It is about selling to more than one country. Fisher Price, for example, isn't exclusive to the USA.

http://kevincolby.com/2008/07/27/the-cos...
The website name is pretty self explanatory. Have a look at what illegal immigrants cost the American(legal) taxpayer.

SarahB1, it was an analogy. Do you know what that is? Theyre ALL CRIMINALS! The illegals are breaking a FEDERAL law! A criminal is a criminal, sorry to tell you. Illegals are criminals and should be dealt with just the way drunk drivers, murderers, child molesters, and any other CRIMINAL is dealt with. In case you dont know what that is its PROSECUTION!

Sarahb1- so what if these (felons) are here illegal doing these crimes as well. Are you okay with this?
Todays public record- is he here legally?? I removed the name in case it is breaking any rules but he is in the public record today. WOW very long name. Could this be why it is hard to catch anybody? 2last names?

"OSCAR ....., 22, of 2309 Harvard Drive, No. 13, Janesville, charge of felony child abuse amended to misdemeanor child neglect, two years probation, $87.

way to stick it to him. a felony reduced to misdemeanor and an $87 fine. That would really scare off any illegal. As I said I don't know if he is illegal BUT how would we know with all the FAKE info out there!
If he is here illegally does he go back? No we put him in jail om our tax payers dollar. WHY wouldn't he be sent away if illegally here!?

lovethemidwest: I don't recall posting here that I support legalization. I stated that I see legalization as something that has been in the works. The concept should not be new to you if you follow U.S. policy issues. Now, regarding something you penned here: If you sincerely equate the crime of being an illegal alien to the crimes of child molestation and murder, then you have a very serious problem. Good luck to you.

Does it ask when you get a DL if you are a US citizen? If it does and they are here illegally AND check this box isn't that TWO major crimes?

Look at public record the last few days. There are A LOT of reports of false info. If they get arrested and are here illegally wouldn't they be sent back? Or is that ILLEGAL to do? WHATEVER huh?
It seems there are a lot of Hispanic names in the paper as well for crimes committed. Are they here legally or not?

I am just seeing this article for the first time, and wow, over 300 comments! This is one of those "I don't even know where to start" articles...
Here are just a few thoughts, probably already said by others.
These are NOT "undocumented" workers, they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. The continued use of the euphemism "undocumented" is really irritating. Let's take back the English language and call things as they are! Illegal aliens are illegal aliens. That means they are in this country illegally. Pretty simple concept, but too many in the state controlled media continue to misuse the language as if someone simply misplaced a piece of paper and - whoops, now they are "undocumented". Pure rubbish.
They have no "right" to a driver's license. Duh. Do I have the "right" to sneak into Central America and get a driver's license there? Why not??? Isn't it a "basic human right"?
The federal and state governments allow illegal immigration to continue. They could shut it down quickly by enforcing the existing laws. Other countries do it, proving that we could too if the national government wanted to do so.
But neither of the big money parties want to touch this, to the R's it represents cheap labour; to the D's it means more votes.
And you were wondering why so many of the things you buy are in both English and Spanish!

Racial Profiling. I heard that from a law enforcer. Their hands are tied too by a mix-nuts rule. To locate and apprehend the non-licenced drivers as stated here will not be as simple a fix, until laws are corrected/ammended. Contact your congress and be an active part of the solution. Offer up SANE realistic solutions, without the bantor. They will hear you. Numbers of voters count. Number of voices may make this an attainable goal.

Wannabe, I hear you. I've hired for years, and it's not easy. What I have done is made it a policy that all hires are dependant on getting clean reports back from INS. Funny, so many of the applicants never come back after reading that!

As someone who hired three Mexican men to help here, they gave me a Green Card, and a social security card. They worked until a man came and told me the cards are fake, I checked on line with Social Security and the cards were real. Now the names they gave me were matched to the social security cards so now what do I do. I mentioned to them of course they did not speak English that I was going to call INS they never returned. I was in a position of being sued if I did not hire with the documents they gave me so I was between a rock and hard place but just mention INS and it took care of its self. If they are here illegally then send them home.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden, much like ANY other politician, believe in and will say ANYTHING to get elected and re-elected.

Thing about Obama, he's a Chicago Politician...read "crook", so it's quite simple to know when he's trying to b.s. you...his lips are moving.

The Socialist Security Administration has a site that allows employers to verify S.S. numbers. Doesn't do any good if an illegal uses someone elses name and number, but at least it catches the blatantly phony ones.

The answer is enforcement on all fronts, at the border, in the workplace, and on the street. Anyone caught trying to cross the border illegally should be put to work on Public Works type projects for a year before being deported. Any employer who KNOWINGLY hires or keeps an illegal working should be fined heavily, anyone applying for or receiving benefits of any kind from any governmental body should be required to show proof of Citizenship or residency, and the Police should be REQUIRED to ascertain the immigration status of all they come into contact with.

Below are the ways Obama intends to deal with immigration:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan
Create Secure Borders
Obama and Biden want to preserve the integrity of our borders. He supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

Improve Our Immigration System
Obama and Biden believe we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

Remove Incentives to Enter Illegally
Obama and Biden will remove incentives to enter the country illegally by cracking down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Bring People Out of the Shadows
Obama and Biden support a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

Work with Mexico
Obama and Biden believe we need to do more to promote economic development in Mexico to decrease illegal immigration.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigr...

Many of the American hispanic folks I talk to overwhelmingly supported Obama in the last election strictly on the issue of immigration because they feel they have to morally support their fellow illegal friends. They feel if their Hispanic friends do not get any help they view it as an attack on them. That is why many Hispanics, witht the exception of Americans of Cuban descent in Florida, voted for Obama. Obama will clearly support for some king of guest program so he can garner future political support from the Hispanic community.

"There may be employees that don't know if they are illegal"
oops employers, sorry.

There may be employees that don't know if they are illegal. They give a fake social security number and it is hard to tell if it is real. Somebody mentioned an E system. Hopefully that would avoid any future problems.You cannot fire them if they are illegal for that specific reason. Okay here is another STUPID thing about illegals being here. You have to fire them "for no reason" to be legal. You wouldn't want to illegally fire and illegal now would you!? It is illegal to hire them but illegal to fire them?????? I word to the wise, if you're illegal don't piss off your other illegal friends. They'll rat on you if you piss them off. Nice huh? True story!

" If employers were monitorred and had to pay HUGE fines for hiring anyone who is in this country illegally, then the problem would solve itself."
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Wow. So to fix the problem we punish...citizens of our country; but don't try to stop the problem at the boarder.

Neo-"May I present you with attempting to enter Another country illegally and see the results? No One has brought that point to lite as of yet here. Give that a try once, then support the illegal entrance activity."

Somebody did but NOBODY answered! I agree go ahead and try it and see what happens. I am still confused about being here illegally and getting tax payers money for health care and stuff!

Okay back to the driving topic. I don't know if they were illegal or not but driving 20 in a 30, why? Maybe they cannot READ the sign? Even though 30 is 30 in any language.

Just for a moment, may I be humorous? WOW, did Something - get Your - Goat People ?
LOL.
Lordy, all the side tracking, off the subjects point, and silly bickering is unreal! It is understood the anger over the issue of non-law enforcement. It is also understood WHY illegal's would want to be here. I too have gone through the LEGAL system to bring my fiance' to this country, let alone this city/ but from the North not South.
I spell People with an O not an A. I drive too fast, and sometimes I may lane change as if I am from Chicago. LOL.
But seriously many of you have struck the preverbial truth, wrong is wrong. There is no dancen around that point, no matter what any supporters of such say, Wrong is Wrong. Breaking the law is wrong. Knowingly entering into a country illegally is wrong. Peroid.
May I present you with attempting to enter Another country illegally and see the results? No One has brought that point to lite as of yet here. Give that a try once, then support the illegal entrance activity.
Sorry, awoke a lil spunky today. Legally too. LOL.

Of course, the correct answer will be revealed when TheJoker gets back.

The name of this game is 'deterrent'. And enforcability. If employers were monitorred and had to pay HUGE fines for hiring anyone who is in this country illegally, then the problem would solve itself.

Never will I get used to it SarahB1. Its bleeding heart fools like YOU that are going to ruin this country. Let me ask you, are you pushing for the legalization of drunk driving? How about bank robbery? Or child molestation? or murder? Are you? Because Illegals are NO LESS CRIMINALS than the people who committ the above mentioned crimes. Wanting to reward criminals with legalization is the most ignorant thing Ive ever heard in my lifetime, and Im in no way surprised its coming from you.

Heads are going to roll when TheJoker (fool-on-the-hill) gets back from her mandatory Christmas vacation with mommy and daddy. She'll set you all straight after catching-up on her high school homework.

lovethemidwest: Get used to the idea that you scorn so much. The legalization is coming.

SG, very well said at 9:32 PM.

" ...raised and schooled by the crypto-anarchists of the sixties who feel that anyone who can sneak into the country should be succored at the expense of legal immigrants and the native-born."

Lenin called these people "useful idiots".

Show me where I said illegals should stay. All I`ve said is that your facts and figures are wrong, and that our homegrown criminals actually are more prone to repeat crimes than are illegals. And to clarify, any non-citizen that is convicted of a crime is a "criminal alien."

Legal immigrants that are criminals are "criminal aliens', as is any non-citizen.

The term "alien" is used by the INS and by other government entities to describe a person who is not a U.S. Citizen. A Green Card holder is a "Resident Alien", a visitor is an "Alien", and a person in the country without a visa or other entrance permit is an "Illegal Alien". There isn't anything pejorative about the word.

"Our own criminals are just as bad"

What's your point? We have our own criminals, yes, so why allow criminals who are committing a crime by being here to stay?

Real simple, they are breaking our laws by being here. Period. There is no reaon for any other debate. Either we enforce our laws or we don't. If we don't enforce our immigration laws, if we don't defend our borders, then this is no longer a Nation, just a pitiful little agglomeration of interest groups.

What is the American way of life?

I would posit that it is living in accordance with the laws of the land, guided by our Constitution. We have, for something over 200 years, been a relatively homogenous society, bound together by a common language and a shared ethos of work, family, and freedom.

This is, sadly under attack from within and without. We must contend not only with an invasion of our land by people who are, to a great extent, more interested in transplanting their culture here than assimilating, but also with a large minority of those who have been raised and schooled by the crypto-anarchists of the sixties who feel that anyone who can sneak into the country should be succored at the expense of legal immigrants and the native-born.

Pitiful.

The only real argument they can summon up to defend their stance is that those who would see immigration laws enforced are "racist", and that it isn't nice to pick on the poor, downtrodden souls who have managed fasten themselves on the corpse of our society.

pharm
Dec 27, 2009 at 5:54 p.m.
Suggest removal There is an immigration problem, but the stats some of you are using are not true. The 2005 GAO report says 27% of prisoners are criminal aliens, and they are. But, that includes legal as well as illegal immigrants. Also,only Federal prisoners are counted in that percentage, not State or local. In 2007 ,according to the Department of Justice, 8% of prisoners in the U.S. were criminal aliens, legal and illegal. Debate using the real numbers.
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Can you clarify this? What makes someone an alien if they are here legally? Is it just 1st generation immigrants or would any non-Native American all into the "alien" "legal" category?
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I am not trying to be difficult but it doesn't make sense to me. Is it immigrants that aren't yet US Citizens? Are they the "aliens"?
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Whom creates these categories? Whom creates the titles for these categories?
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Very confusing.

They are illegal, but our own criminals are just as bad. The rhetoric gets too heated when the facts are fudged.

What point are you trying to make Pharm? Seems that ONE crime by an illegal is TO MANY! Theyre criminals, each and every one of them, to begin with. Then theyre over here committing more crimes and costing US CITIZENS billions of dollars. They shouldnt be here in the first place to be able to committ ANY crimes. You dont find it alarming the rate at which they committ crimes considering they shouldnt be here in the first place?

Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice , June 2, 2002. "Recidivism Of Prisoners Released In 1994", they followed 272,111 released felons for 3 years after their release, they had already accumulated 4,1 million arrests between them, and added 744,000 in those 3 years. Offenders offend again, and often. Only 24% were Hispanic, citizens and non-citizens. A majority of criminals do commit more crimes after release, not just illegal immigrants.

Straight from the GAO website: In our population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes.

There is an immigration problem, but the stats some of you are using are not true. The 2005 GAO report says 27% of prisoners are criminal aliens, and they are. But, that includes legal as well as illegal immigrants. Also,only Federal prisoners are counted in that percentage, not State or local. In 2007 ,according to the Department of Justice, 8% of prisoners in the U.S. were criminal aliens, legal and illegal. Debate using the real numbers.

If you want to send these bad drivers back to from where they came then please send teenage drivers back to the womb! Legal or illegal, their driving records are far worse.

From SarahB1(surprise, surprise)-"If you want them to pay taxes, make them legal."
________
Ummm... So now youre suggesting we REWARD criminals? Pathetic! Maybe we should give all drunk drivers a lifetime supply of Jack Daniels and make that legal as well?

realitybytes: What exactly is "the American way of life" anymore?

If you want them to pay taxes, make them legal.

I understand why the illegals want to be here. But, it is against the LAW. Therefore, they SHOULD NOT BE HERE and should be prosecuted and sent back. Very simple. If I break the LAW, I pay the price.

Hey all you liberal bleeding heart types that only seem to want to hear about how these criminals just want a better life and how we should be compassionate: Do you really think amnesty for these people is the right thing to do? What happens 10 years from now when we have ANOTHER 10 million illegals sucking up our resources. Do we then allow them to stay as well? Amnesty now is the first step in completely opening our borders. It will kill the American way of life and lead to America being another 3rd world country. Our descendants will blame our generation for not doing the right thing. pull your heads out of your...

You people on here defending the illegal aliens- Do you think all drunk drivers should be let go without any prosecution? I bet not! So whats the difference between a drunk driver and an ILLEGAL alien? NOTHING! Theyre both criminals, and the ILLEGAL aliens are committing a federal crime!

Darwin1--There are plenty of figures as well as links to even more figures in the body of this blog. I understand that it will take a lot of effort on your part to read them, but please give it a shot:) Your stupidity is once again coming front and center with you other comments....You think we should raise taxes on law abiding American citizens to offset the financial burden that a group of criminals places on our country??? The Nazi reference was laughable! Whether you want to admit it or not, these people are committing a crime--many illegal aliens take it further than being in the country illegally. Do a little research on the violent crime problem that California is having with illegal aliens.......Then come back and try to rejoin the conversation without coming off as a complete idiot:)

How bout we vote for politicians who are against ammnesty and open borders. We either take our country back or get used to this new world. Vote vote vote

ladulce.....APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE!

sprout- your level of anger toward your fellow countrymen seems, at very least, unhealthy. This country was founded upon our right to voice differing opinions. We would have never achieved all that we have as an incredible nation if we all shared the same thoughts. We all have a right to our opinion, and in my belief system, to not be attacked as personally for one's beliefs. I may not agree with what you say, but, will defend to the death your right to say it. I do not believe the right is full of Nazis, nor should the right believe that the left is "trash". We are all Americans and we have different ideas about what is in the best interest of this country that we all love. Belittling one another for the points of view is contrary to the wishes of our forefathers and the principles of this country.

Very true, OkieFed. The cost of these invaders far exceeds any taxes they MIGHT pay. These invaders are here because politicians, corporations, and businesses like the higher profits that they can achieve when they don't have to pay a decent wage to their employees. It is as simple as that.

Ah, the simple mindedness of the left, it can be entertaining at times.

lol, bring up NAZI's (again) along with taxing rich people...the old stale argument of the left.

916 you are so full of it. You have no facts, no actual numbers, just lots of conjecture. We live in a country of former poor immigrants, so your fear driven premise has no basis in an actual reality. They come here to work - WORK. They pay taxes. You want to bring in more revenue? Tax investments. Rich people often don't pay income taxes because they their money is derived from investments. At least immigrants work.

Even people here who are undocumented are protected by our Constitution and due process, which you seem intent on undermining. Seize their property? Isn't that what the Nazi's did to the Jews?

Ladulce.....I was not trying to "twist the truth", I was merely stating a fact. I wanted to make the point that the cost of the illegal aliens to just one state could all but wipe out the "contribution" that you say they provide to the Federal government. Obviously California and Texas has a larger problem with illegal aliens than Wisconsin or Minnesota, but you would have to be completely ignorant to think that this population of lawbreakers will not continue to grow in ALL areas of this country unless something is done about it. We can not continue to look the other way. These people need to have their assets seized and they need to be forced out of this country. Their employers that enabled this lawbreaking need to be punished to an extent where they will not hire these people again.....

Really? I never would have guessed...just like those 7549th offense drunk drivers aren't out there either?! In ever aspect, our country is becoming more and more dangerous, and it scares the crap out of me. :(

lovesthemidwest- If one wants their "points" to be considered, it is up to them to be able to support them. Per the link you provided, ONE STATE (California) has an estimated 10 billion dollar annual issue. However, the implications of 916's post was that "states" have this issue. Simple way of twisting the truth, or making it seem like this is an "average" number. Obviously, California holds that MASS MAJORITY of undocumented- with Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and, a few others following. 916's post implied that STATES- not one lone state- bore this cost... And, thank you for providing the link.

madman1961
Dec 26, 2009 at 10:18 a.m.
Suggest removal darwin...

...the article in question is not about immigrants, but ILLEGAL aliens. In other words, trespassers, NOT immigrants.

Big difference between the two...one is here with permission....the other is breaking the law.
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True, but many of the comments, thus the racism accusations, were not just about illegal immigrants. The comments by some, changed the discussion from illegal immigration a general dislike and intolerance for immigrants.
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Recently, the conversation has changed back (thankfully) to illegal immigration. Most would agree illegal immigration is a problem and must be addressed. The confusion for me, in this particular discussion, came when some demonstrated a general dislike and intolerance for any new/recent immigrants.
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Check out this comment
ICEManCometh
Dec 21, 2009 at 12:09 p.m.
Suggest removal
And many made right around that one to see what I mean about how some seem to be intolerant of anyone who recently came to this country. For some, the legal/illegal matters little.
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"...undocumented CAN get loans for cars and homes." (from laduce on 12-26 @ 11:39 AM.)

You are so right, they can and could get these loans. It is generally believed that these subprime mortgages that had adjustable rates are what caused the slide that put so many banks under when the mortgage holders, as many as five million of them illegal aliens, simply wallked away from the loans when the loans adjusted past affordability.

We then paid for these failed banks through bailouts with billions of taxpayer dollars. These invaders are very expensive to have in this country.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/24/ill...

An interesting study by the G.A.O.

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-646R

Other sites that have information that may be of interest. Of course, since it isn't on CNN, it's easy to dismiss it as "racism", or "right-wing agitprop", but if you really think you have an open mind, and aren't adverse to reading some unpleasant truths...

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_o...

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTI...

http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-i...

http://www.voiac.org/

There's plenty of information and evidence online and in print, so why is anyone who advocates closing our borders and defeating the invading forces labeled a "racist"?

Take a look at this, from this website:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/jul...

"Fortunately, a number of congressmen requested that the General Accountability Office (GAO) investigate and report information on criminal aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails. The resulting GAO report, published in April 2005, revealed that illegal aliens make up 27% of the prison population. (The oft-cited figure of 12 million illegal aliens in the country means that they make up just 4% of the general population.)

Since illegal aliens are unlikely to be committing white-collar crimes, that figure likely underestimates the amount of violent crime committed by illegal aliens. Using the GAO report, Representative Steve King of Iowa points out that 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).

Do the math: That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!

Oddly, I've seen people in my hometown protesting against the war in Iraq, but I've never seen anyone protesting against the illegal alien invasion that is killing tens of thousands of Americans right here on our own soil. "

Below are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times, published as the State of California tries to close a $42 billion budget shortfall. It seems that illegal immigration has become the third rail of politics. No one wants to face that fact that it is costing states billions.

From the L. A. Times:

40% of all workers in L. A. County (L. A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

ladulce, you are so good at doing research for your point why not do a simple google search on 916WIs post? I did and low and behold a link confirming exactly what he/she said about the cost to Cali came up. Here it is for ya:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigratio...

916WI- please provide some link to your claim? Some proof? ANY of us can claim ANYTHING and without some sort of fact to support it, it is just nonsense.... I would LOVE to see a "per state" number, since there are so many variables...
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Frogger- I have NO CLUE which banks you personally work with, but, MOST of the big banks DO, in fact accept the matricula and do give loans on it. Here is an anti-immigrant link that lists them:

http://www.bankofamericaboycott.com/bank...

Good point SG. Seems there are a bunch of hypocrites on here. They will be on other boards crucifying people when they get caught for crimes, then come on here and defend these ILLEGALS who are no less of criminals than the people they are crucifying on other boards.

That's wonderful that they are contributing something ladulce, but unfortunately the financial burden of having the illegal aliens in this country FAR exceeds any amount they pay into the system. There is no possible way to dispute this. Like I said in an earlier post, the cost of illegal immigration to just one state is over $10 BILLION a year........

What is the argument?

If I break into your house and spend my days sitting in your living room, roll out a sleeping bag in your bedroom, and insist that you feed me and take care of me, am I a housebreaker, or an "undocumented visitor"?

ANYONE who is in the country illegally, Latino, Euro, Asian, African, should be deported to their country of birth. If the country of birth cannot be ascertained, then they should be taken to the closest border and escorted across it.

They are here illegally. They have broken a Federal law by being here. Unless you can show this is untrue, then how can you argue against removing them?

I know, I know...common sense is pretty scarce these days.

These taxes you speak of could also be paid by US CITIZANS that don't have jobs right now.

As I said if they claim exemptions on their check they'll never pay any large amount of taxes. Are you saying you cannot put exemptions on your check anymore?

The "BIG" banks we work with do not give a loan unless you have a green card. That can even be difficult because no credit. If there is a strong co it will work.

Frogger- Undocumented CAN get loans for cars and homes. There are several banks (BIG banks) that accept their national ID (la matricula). They also pay taxes when they work for any traditional employer (factories) that pays employees with checks. The employer is required to withold taxes from the employees check. They can't get tax refunds or credits, so, that is money that our government keeps. Per previously mentioned article: 56 BILLION DOLLARS
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Social Security number does not match SSA’s records. In 2002, the suspense file grew by $56 billion in reported earnings, with about $7 billion in Social Security tax and $1.5 billion in Medicare tax paid. This tax contribution represents about 10% of the current Social Security surplus—the difference between what is being collected in Social Security taxes and what is being paid out in benefits."
http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopD......

Darwin- how can illegals pay property tax when they cannot get a loan because they're not here legally? If you say "well they rent" then that isn't creating a whole lot when MULTI families live in one household!

Many have stated that hardly any sales tax is raised because they send home all the money. There isn't sales tax on food!

Savetheworld: is the dairy farm the only place that employs ? There are jobs out there, whether it be flipping burgers at McDonald's or working at the mall....if your son wanted to work then he would be working.

partarican"The illegals work here, receive paychecks, and pay into the Social Security system under FALSE names. So where does all of the $$$ go to?"
If they are claiming a lot of exemptions for ALL their kids they're not paying in to begin with!
I agree, if you're not here legally get out and do it legally.
If you have a legal child and are found out take the child with you.

One time a Mexican guy was coming at me on Court street(one way). He looked at me like I was doing something wrong by pulling out in front of him. I usually look both ways even on a one way and sure enough as I looked while I was pulling out on the ONE way he was headed at me. He continued down the wrong way on Court St near Walgreens(Five points). It would be hard to read the ONE WAY signs if you cannot speak English!

I also agree with all the unemployed right now they need to go back so the LEGAL people can have a job!
I also agree not much of that money is spent here in the US because most of it goes back to Mexico. I see it to many families in one home.

darwin...

...the article in question is not about immigrants, but ILLEGAL aliens. In other words, trespassers, NOT immigrants.

Big difference between the two...one is here with permission....the other is breaking the law.

savetheworld: Why doesn't your son just call on the dairy farm's owner to ask about a job? That would be my first step if I wanted to work somewhere specific.

"immigrants pay sales and property taxes"
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As do all native born citizens, legalized citizens, and tourists.

The do not pay legal payroll tax...this is where most tax dollars are generated.

lovethemidwest, immigrants pay sales and property taxes so spare me your half thought. Having actually worked on a farm, I can tell you that if you love your child you DON'T want them working on a farm. There are no safety regulations and they can pay sub minimum wage.

I guess if you hate immigrants then you must hate yourself because we all came from immigrants. Evidently this fact is lost on the contards because they don't know anything about history except what the Foxtard News tell them.

Believe it or not, there are many young adults out there that would like the luxury of having a job...at a dairy farm. My son is going to college part-time, living at home and needs a job. We have a LARGE dairy farm near us, but most of the workers are Hispanic. I asked several people familiar with this particular farm about my son getting a job and was told that the Hispanic workers take care of each other and their friends, and it's nearly impossible for a caucasian to get a milking job there. Nice for the farmer to be able to skimp on wages, taxes, benefits for illegals! What about kids from the community that would like a job to pay for college?

whythink, if that is not satifactory, perhaps you could contact the Gazette and get the archived story for the date that I stated in my post, Sunday, May 2, 2004. The words I used are copy and pasted directly from the article. You could then accept it as fact or express your disbelief to the newspaper. I aim to please.

The article is printed from the Gazette Extra on the day mentioned in my post. I have no link, I have the article printed out. Email me and I will get a copy of it to you, if you would like one.

Shopierehuh,
Can you provide me a link showing how all involved were illegal immigrants?
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Obviously there last name isn't Jones or Johnson but that is far from "illegal."
Thanks.

Merry Christmas and Feliz Navidad!

Darwin, really? You mean to tell me that the undocumented workers that are working for CASH are filing taxes? I highly doubt that. What the few that are paying taxes actually contribute to our "tax base" is FAR outwighed by what they are costing US for services provided to them.

The Bracero Program that was used for 22 years worked well to ameliorate the lot of the migrant worker, as well as providing the means to track their movements and control their migrations. It's time to, at the very least, look at re-instituting this program or one like it.

http://www.search.com/reference/Bracero_...

Velheim:
I've got news for you. The service and agriculture industries in this country DO want the illegals here. That's how they make their profit. If they had to pay the wages citizens demand, their businesses would flounder. It's time for the U.S. government to stop speaking out of both sides of its mouth by setting immigration quotas and then ignoring the industries that attract the undocumented workers. Either give these employees a green card so they can be here legally or tell the service and agribusiness lobbyists that their cheap labor will end and the U.S. government will now begin enforcing its laws. We can't have it both ways.

Alex Gillis states "It shows that neither the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party in Wisconsin or nationally have the intention to fix the problems that are most urgent to our people". They are not "our" people. They need to go back to Mexico or where ever they came from. Do you know how many citizens can't get they help that they need because our resources are already being spent on illegal immigrants? Now they want more rights...unbelievable!!!!

I believe I am already the minority. But what is wrong with our country letting this go on. There has to be some way to atleast keep illegals from drawing social security and such.

There is no taking everyone to the border and dropping them off or building a giant wall so they cant cross....blah blah blah....they are here, have been here and will always be here....get use to it ! Soon they will not be the minority...you will be.

I will never understand if they are illegal immigrants, how do they get social security and ssi? Why should we support someone who isnt even here legally. Transport then as far as the border and drop them off!!!

Darwin.....Talk to my 66 year old next door neighbor. She got t-boned by an illegal alien, when he decided not to stop at a stop sign. No apology or remorse--the only thing he said was "no habla ingles".....After the police showed up, they told her that she was lucky she had full coverage, because the chances of her getting this loser to pay up were non-existent......

"I have yet to see a Hispanic person driving poorly. Usually, its an ignorant redneck with his "Fear This" sign on the back" --darwin1 blathered on December 22 at 3:19 PM.

Here is part of a Gazette news article from Sunday, 2 May, 2004. This is before the forces of political correctness discouraged the publishing of the immigration status of the criminals who invade this country and commit these types of crimes.

--June 5, 2002, Angel Amaya's car smashes head-on into a motor home, killing the driver.

--June 181 20021 Miguel Hernandez Alfaro is decapitated when his compact car careens off Rockport Road west of Janesville.

--June 301 2002, a vehicle driven by Alfredo Urueta-Diaz smashes into oncoming motorcycles on Highway 81 west of Beloit, killing three.

--May 24, 20031 a minivan driven by Pastor Ramirez crosses the centerline of Highway 11/14 east of Janesville and crashes into an oncoming carl killing the driver.

--Aug. 131 2003, a car driven by Maribel Sotelo-Solis crosses the median of Interstate 90/39 near Janesville and collides with two oncoming vehicles. Two people in her car are killed.

Eight killed in five Rock County crashes with at least one common factor-illegal immigrants driving without ever getting licenses.

ladulce- Narrow minded to think their sending all their money home? Well I got news for you. They don't spend that much on rent because most of them cram together in an apartment or rented house and split it. They split all their bills. Its like college. I know because I used to work with many of them. And I don't know if you ever been to a Mexican grocery store or a Western Union place, but they all have signs saying "Wire money to Mexico" in Spanish. Now open those blinders.

Mexico is far from hell. While I don't claim to be an expert either, I do spend a good amount of time there every year, usually travelling there 3-4 times, for anywhere between 1 and 4 weeks at a time. I speak Spanish well enough to get by, and have quite a few friends there.

They must all be racist, tho', because they are always happy to remind me that "mostly what you get from Mexico is our trash". Another saying they are fond of is that anyone who can read and write can work in Mexico.

Now, some of that may be due to the area where they live, Monterrey and Ciudad Mexico, but not all of it. Yes, there are places in Mexico that, to our eyes, look pretty bad. Take a good look there, then get on a plane to S.E.Asia and see what REAL poverty looks like.

Yes, people will try to better themselves, and who can blame them? Not I. I think anyone with the strength and persistence to work for and get a work visa and to start on the path to Citizenship should be lauded.

As to the illegals, Latinos, Euros, Asians, whoever-throw them out. Period.

Yes, most of us are descendants of immigrants. And almost ALL of us are descendants of immigrants who arrived here in full compliance with all laws then extant.

No one wants these illegal immigrants here.
NO ONE.

Except for those corrupt politicians and wanna-be pure hearted college kids.
Our country is over populated and underworked, we don't need anymore people here...

I have yet to see a Hispanic person driving poorly. Usually, its an ignorant redneck with his "Fear This" sign on the back. These articles only pander to the xenophobes who don't know what they are talking about. People come to America for the same reasons the people without papers came during the turn of the century - they want a better life. Then they pay taxes. All immigrants ADD to the tax base in the end.

sprout,
The violence and lack of clean water in some areas would make life hell.
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I am not an expert on Mexico and maybe that was an unfair statement but from the little I have heard and read about there is a reason people are willing to risk their life to come to this country, and work below minimum wage jobs.
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Not all are looking for a hand-out...many are looking to escape their idea of hell. Just like my ancestors...fortunately for them they were basically welcomed in where now...not the case.
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Remember the end of the boat scene in Lethal Weapon 4?

I agree with that also,just drive down Milwuakee street at 7:20 to 7:30 the woman in the red mini-van that works at a school on Crosby is a danger cutting in and out. I stopped moving for her she hits me her fault not mine.

I agree that some illegal immigrants pose a threat on the road but I would say that the public in general poses a threat also. Especially these big macho wannabe guys from Janesville who think that every one should move out their way just so they can pretend they are special. I percieve it as a Janesville thing to do. Maybe I am wrong.

Thank you for the police update just one of my points.

WOW! What a turn this discussion has taken!
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I don't know a person on this issue that isn't proud to be an American. I don't defend illegal immigrants but I also don't talk about them with no feeling, no compassion or no understanding. I don't pretend they are less than human and I certainly don't want them treated that way.
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I believe there has to be a balance with this issue. I don't have much patience for people who break the law but "rounding them up and sending them back" is a bit too simplistic for me. There was a discussion months back about the children of illegals receiving benefits and people were saying they should be sent back.
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Don't pretend some of the comments on here are not racially motivated. Some are very racially motivated.
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Yeah, we should close our borders. Yes, we should punish those who hire illegals. Yes, if illegals are caught they should be sent back. Yes, if they are caught breaking our laws they should be imprisoned and then sent back.
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I do believe we must remember many of the illegals are simply desperate human beings. If I lived in hell and knew I could move somewhere away from hell...I doubt I would worry about what laws existed about making that move. I would do everything and anything to get out of hell. If I had a family, take that to an extreme.
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Good to see so many people awake to this threat.

Being an American is the bottom-line. Blacks are as much a part of American culture as anyone else. There are those who have rejected it, but for the most part, we are inseperable. People who are championing the dissolution of our Nation under hordes of illegal aliens swarming over the borders like to hide behind charges of racism, and always, always try to lump Blacks in with illegal Latinos to this end.

Fact is, if the illegals weren't here, there would be far more entry-level and low-skill jobs available to those with less education and training, including young people, ex-cons, recovering addicts, and other groups that now have a very hard time finding a job.

Divide and conquer. An old, old leftist tactic. Split the people up into interest groups, then dominate them one by one.

Black, White, Brown, whatever, it's okay to be proud of your heritage, and it's necessary to be proud to be an American. If enough of us are, then we will take this Nation back. If enough of us aren't, then our Nation is doomed, and our children will curse us.

DiGriz if the troops came home, from all locations, our politicians would not stomach the political will to protect our own boarders...might hurt someones feelings by enforcing our own laws.

I would like to know how to get this fixed, I am an American and had to become one I am white and I love this country. So who can start this ball rolling and take care of the issue and change our government to doing what the people want not the banks,oil companies and rich folks. Someone HELP THE U.S.A

Certainly there are folks in this economy who stand to benefit from these illegal immigrants. There is lobbying by certain industries who want to curtial efforts to send illegals home.

"Other key business players included the hospitality industry, construction, and agriculture-all of which benefit directly from low-skill foreign labor, many of whom are in the country illegally. Also making their voices heard loudly was the banking and financial services industry. This sector, which has mismanaged the economy into its worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, was eager to provide mortgages, loans, credit cards, and arrange money transfers for illegal aliens sending remittances abroad."

http://www.rightsidenews.com/20090225379...

I am proud to be an American. That is a lost comment, because for some reason, we have to be proud of our color first. What makes me a proud American is doing the right thing. When you do the right thing, it requires you follow the law. You want to challenge the law, do it intellectually, not physically. We can't take care of our own (Americans regardless of color), so how can we pay to take care of others here illegally? Everybody wants a utopia, the reality is we can't afford it. For those of you supporting the life of crime an "undocumented immigrant" lives, how can you really justify it? Should we all go do illegal things because we want a better life for our family? I got an even better idea. If you can't afford a family - don't have one.

ICEManCometh I love this guy. I am getting sick of everytime a white person is proud of their race and who we are we are racist but yet every other race can form pride groups and say what they want and this is different. We as the white man are the ones that are being discriminated against. I have seen this first hand in a lot of areas. Go to a college and look for a book on grants and loans for students and you find one for every race except for the white man. When it came to processing grants, if a white man files at the same time as any other race theirs takes months longer to get processed again I have seen this first hand. I am sick of being told that I can not be proud to be white because this makes me racist. GUESS WHAT I AM PROUD TO BE WHITE!!!

That's the beautiful thing about where things are going now that the Obama/Reid/Pelosi troika has tilted this country toward an unmanageable course....even those of us with high education and good jobs are realizing that our kids won't reach our level if we keep letting invaders call the shots. We're now the person in line behind you, the person next to you at the stoplight, the person teaching your kid at school. We want our country back and we won't stop until we have it back. When the melting pot stopped melting everyone, and they all started clamoring for their own "identity" and "community" to be respected and put above the greater whole society, that's when we got sick of it. We're done letting political correctness and fear of giving offense to peoples' sensibilities get in the way of saying what needs to be said, and making our federal, state, and local governments put AMERICAN CITIZENS ahead of the rest of the stuff on their plates!

Thanks SarahB1, I cant handle anymore of your bleeding heart babble.

lovethemidwest: I would hate to push your brain to wrap its way around anything, but you missed the mark on my 0832 comment. I won't even waste my time trying to break it down for you; your feet are already planted deeply on this issue. Have a nice day anyway.

I agree 100% with that shopierehuh. The goofy bumblebee mufflers and the wanna be rednecks with the big stacks on their pickup trucks is equally hilarious.

lovethemidwest, I was of course refering to your earlier post. I don't care about the cultural thing with the cars. I don't think it's any worse than what the White boys do to their Hondas or whatever they drive, the crap with the big loud muffler hanging off the back. Sounds like **** to me and looks stupid. They will grow out of it, I would imagine.

Hey I know to all the people that think it is alright for illeagal aliens to come and stay here. They need a better life right. So why dont we let every third wold person, and everyone that is poor come and live here in the US for free. Then they can have the same life, all of us cause we all will be be broke and live in one big third world nation. Brilliant!!!!

lovethemidwest, you are right on the money, I couldn't have said it better. They like to try to stifle discourse by name calling and it doesn't work as well as it used to for them. Aint it cool?

I do get a kick out of some of their choices for vehicle ornamentation. Purple cars with pink ground effects and great big pink spoiler, hilarious. Chevy chevette with CAMARO sticker across front windshield, hilarious. Four wheel drive truck lowered to within inches of the ground with wheels that stick out 6 inches, again hilarious. And whats with putting your last name in great big old english letters across the entire back window? Once again, hilarious!

I dont think that its just a Janesville thing either but it can be a pretty hateful place. No I wasn't deported, I went to college, thank goodness for that.

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.

Glad you left Czizzle. Wanting the LAW to be upheld isnt "ignorant". Sympathizing with these criminals IS ignorant. These illegals are criminals, plain and simple. If they cant come into our country the way the LAW states then they have no business being here and should be dealt with appropriatley. Allowing these illegals to stay is taking away from the accomplishments of those folks that have worked hard to come to this country the right way.

Czizzle I dont think this is just a Janesville thing. This is a problem nation wide and I think youll find a lot of people across the nation that feel the same way. Why did you leave were you deported:)

WOW! SarahB1 is a real winner. Her post from 8:32 this morning is sad. She would rather let the illegals(Federal criminals) walk the street in exchange for the ticketing of CITIZENS! What a joke! What a hypocrite you are SarahB1. You want the govt. to uphold the laws pertaining to small municipal violations, but you want ILLEGALS committing a FEDERAL CRIME to be left alone.

This reminds me why I left Janesville, so much ignorance and a serious lack of education.
I pretty sure some or most of you dont really understand the immigration issues in this country. Knowledge is power people, not being white.

Just today I saw a car full of hispanic people. They had 5 people in the back of a late 90's duster including kids that looked around 4 years old. No car seats.....very safe.

And, it's not "undocumented," it's ILLEGAL!

As in, is this what we really want....?

thief—undocumented shopper
rapist—undocumented lover
burglar—undocumented owner
Drug dealer—undocumented physician/pharmacist
drug abuser—undocumented patient
axe killer—undocumented meat processor
murderer—undocumented executioner
bank robber—undocumented customer

Thanks again to the editor(s) for allowing this discussion to really cover some ground...in both directions on this issue and into some avenues that are normally shut down, despite people showing mostly respectful tones with non-P.C.-approved topics!

Like I said earlier, the Cap Times site in Madison SHUT DOWN their comments section as soon as they saw the comments were clearly AGAINST the illegal alien couple featured in the cry-me-a-river-for-poor-illegals story...the liberal bastion of Madison journalism CAVING in to their P.C. masters!!

Much appreciation to the Gazette editor!

Bottom line is that this article in the Gazette is put out by an organization that wants the national push for amnesty for illegal aliens to succeed, and they think they're doing their little part by writing bleeding heart stories to be distributed all over the dairy state under the banner of "Dairy Diversity" to try to win hearts and minds before the rubber meets the road in the U.S. Senate next year. They want a few more of you out there to think..."Hey, I'd like safer roads," and, "Wow, I didn't know they got such a raw deal...hmmm."

If they manage to do that with their biased and unbalanced articles, they'll be happy you bought what they were selling.

The reality: Giving licenses to illegals will make WI a complete MAGNET for illegals from all over hell. The residency scams they will pull were already seen from 2004-2007 when Minnesota stopped giving them licenses, but WI still was: up to 70 people using the same address at the same time, constant cross-state border identity theft rings and document scams. Not only that, but illegals having licenses makes them NO MORE likely to go buy auto insurance....remember, they're still freakin' illegal! They have no cause to worry about damages...they can skip town before the damage judgment catches up to them. They also aren't any safer on the road with licenses...actually, they're probably safer when they're more worried, like they are now.

End of story!

And Sarah, how is someone an outlier who plays by the rules and wants others to adhere to them, as well? And, oh goodness me, also expects their government to maintain the sovereignty of the nation and not let other countries dictate our immigration policy to us?

That's not "outlier;" that's common sense.

You being scared by the truth really shows what P.C. can do to a normally intelligent mind, which I'm sure you possess. Use it to dig for truth...don't just swallow what the mainstream media and P.C. professors pour down your throat.

Good luck finding your way....I once stood where you are and defended illegals as "human rights" cases...until I saw the sheer numbers, unvarnished by liberal spin. And the scams and the bankrupting of this nation by invaders...

Winston Churchill covered it best: "If you're not a liberal at 20, you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative by 40, you don't have a head."

All I'm saying is, don't we all see how FOOLISH it is to adhere to politically correct orthodoxy....this P.C. movement is not even fully 20 years old and it's changed our ability to speak without being branded unfairly as racists.

Just as the P.C. movement was getting going, a report using the government's own crime numbers came out, and it was astonishing. It was put out by a white nationalist organization, but they didn't inject anything into the numbers...just the spin. The problem was, there didn't even NEED to be any spin...the numbers were that outrageous! You can guess how the numbers stacked up for the races...just based on what the headlines show you everyday. The point is, nobody ever saw that report on their evening news because all the newspapers and T.V. and radio outlets that got hold of "The Color of Crime" BURIED IT! Didn't allow any of it to even be discussed...it was one of P.C.'s first big victories. Had it seen the light of day, we wouldn't be funding studies to look at whether there's racial profiling by cops...we'd know they were following the numbers.

That's how absurd P.C. is and what it's done to us as a society.

Whythink, I didn't "question" your name, merely commented that I thought it apt.

Now, don't you think that someone who throws around words like "ignorant" should at the very least be able to spell what they are talking about?

As far as the statement "Viva la Raza", there is no real difference between someone using that slogan and someone using the slogan "White Power". Which, by the way, I haven't. Mexicans use it all the time as a statement of racial empowerment. How is that different than "White Power"?

So, in 2048, when whites are in the minority in this country, never to return to majority....can we then form the National Association for the Advancement of White People, or the NAAWP? Can we then form our version of La Raza, called "The Race?"

That would seem only fair once we are truly a minority at that point, right?

Sg
I said White Power regarding some of the comments.
You made the point that White Power isn't OK but viva la rasa is and appeared to wonder why.
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Wondering why, IMO, is an example of ignorance.
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Yeah, question my name, WOW!

whythink, such an apt name.

Please, point out to me again just where I said "White Power"?

Gee SG here I thought the VIKING'S have been here for ever

whythink: I hope you are correct about where most people stand on this issue. These "outliers" (anyone remember introductory stats courses?) and their comments make me nervous.

No, people can be concerned about illegal immigration and not be racist. Most fall into that category.
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The language some are using is however, WHITE POWER racist. Heck, not understanding why White Power is not OK but "viva la rasa" is...is at a minimum ignorant.

SG: Please climb back into your cave.

Yeah, must be "White Power" and racism, right?

Say "Viva la Raza" and you are showing your pride of ancestry.

Say "Black Power" and you're empowering yourself in a hostile environment.

Say " White ANYTHING" and you must be a racist!

And the illegals that were here before the Euros...which part of Wisconsin was that Mexican enclave in, way back before the Vikings discovered America?

Speaking of history, if you'd do a bit of reading of your own, you'd see that until sometime in the mid ot late sixties, America was, for all intents, a White, European country. As it was meant to be when it was founded.
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WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER.
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UGH! If the intent was a, "White, European country" then why did the geniuses force Africans from their homeland to do the hard work.
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BTW, many of the illegal immigrants you complain about were here, in what is now the USA long before any of our Eurpean Ancestors arrived.
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If you think about it, they are just returning home.

SG is correct in the fact that it was Teddy Kennedy's high treason with his 1960's immigration "reforms" that basically opened the floodgates and washed our previous demographics right down the drain. And, I'd wager, brought upon the massive rise of the welfare state and the political correctness tyranny that currently appears to override common sense in policymaking and law enforcement!

Bottom line: both legal and illegal immigration need to STOP COMPLETELY until the economy and Americans are working again. And then, legal immigration should be suited to our purposes, not those of the Fortune 500 who want to pay lower tech wages to Indians (dots, not feathers) and Chinese, and not those of universities worshipping at the Diversity altar at the expense of real American kids who deserve their first choice of college before some Korean national.

And YES, anyone who cares....by saying "our backs," I'm indeed referring to "average white taxpaying citizens who play by the rules and don't expect handouts and don't expect to get away with breaking the law when they do so." We happen to be the only group that can't put our racial identity in our advocacy groups' names for fear of bringing Sharpton, La Raza, and the ACLU in on the next jet. Oh, wait, that's right...we can't even set up overt advocacy groups...we're the one group that's not ALLOWED to do that under the tyranny of Political Correctness!

And the natives that were here when the Whites arrived had conquered the peoples that were here before they crossed the land-bridge from Asia.

An all-White land? Did someone mention that? I do believe I used the phrase "Whites deserve a homeland" if that's what you refer to. Big difference there.

Speaking of history, if you'd do a bit of reading of your own, you'd see that until sometime in the mid ot late sixties, America was, for all intents, a White, European country. As it was meant to be when it was founded.

Hollynfaith, thanks for recognizing that the government DOES NOT HAVE OUR BACKS when it comes to worshipping at the altar of diversity. My contact at the DMV tells me the story of bi-racial kids applying for their first driver permit....and they leave the "race" spot BLANK on their application. When my friend asks them what they want to put in there, they often hesitate, and hem and haw about not knowing, and they and the parent ask the DMV guy for guidance. He told me he just says, "Put what you're going to put on your college applications!"

DOESN'T THAT JUST SUM IT UP ?!?!?!

He got in hot water one time, because an overly-racially-sensitive parent assumed he must be a KKK or something, but his supervisor finally agreed, "What better way to get them unstuck on that question?"

SD=DB
Do you not remember your US history? Whites came here and proceded to over-run the natives. Not all tribes sold their land for beads and trinkets, only one. You want a land for whites? Talk about a fantasy land.....

As far as the "You have to be an American Indian to not be equal to the illegal aliens yourselves" argument, as I said earlier:

Ancestors who came here either followed the laws in place at that time, or in the case of the Mayflower...benefitted from the fact that the Natives had not set up a sovereign border and remained a divided group of "nations" on this continent. So don't equate current illegals to old immigrants...the laws either weren't there then, or the ones that were there were followed. Not only that, but many of "our" ancestors had their names changed for the convenience of whoever was checking them in, so don't say they weren't dehumanized, as well.

Crimes committed by illegal aliens are not documented or reported by any law enforcement agencies because neither nationality nor resident status is a data element in the NIBRS.

They are, however, committing a LOT of crime. See the crime sections in:

www.darksideofillegalimmigration.com

Also see:

www.voiac.org

BTW, illegal aliens driving without a license is no where near as bad as illegal aliens driving without insurance.

Iceman "radical"???

Why, because he spoke the truth?

Why are so many in this country willing to throw away everything that our forefathers fought and died for? Before my pops died at 84, he told me "this isn't the country I fought for anymore!" He was right.

Whites deserve a homeland.

Oh wait, that's racist, right? Makes me a "supremist", whatever that's supposed to be. Odd, tho', had I written about a homeland for an African tribe, or maybe displaced Palestinians, I would be right in the avant-garde of the left-wing.

Whites deserve a homeland. We have our own culture, our own history, why should we be forced to water it down or abandon it to accomodate the hordes of illegals coming across our borders?

Read your history. While cross-border crime has always been with us, in the early years of our Nation, the border was controlled by troops stationed in forts along the border. It worked then, it could work again. A few minefields, maybe elements of the 5th Air Cav...

WE just really need to stop pretending that we need to put others ahead of our children.

frusion: I know the issue and do understand the responses posted here. People are hiding behind the illegal immigrant argument. In other words, if the subject breaking the law is anyone other than an illegal immigrant, then we look the other way. Believe me, I understand what is going on in this blog.

Whythink, although Iceman seems a bit radical, his point is valid when it comes to UW enrollment and immigrants/foreign students. It is ten times harder to get into UW if you are a white American. Immigrants affect this enrollment process and it is frustrating. My daughter had to wait an entire year, even with excellent grades to enroll in UW; however, her girlfriend, of mexican decent, was allowed right in and her grades were simply average. Immigration affects everything, not simply driving. They reap benefits that Americans would have, if they had not been there and it infuriates people because there is such a large number of illegal immigrants present in our society reaping the benefits. It is a huge problem that our government continues to sit on the fence on.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother Fishngal, and I sympathize with the amount of anger and frustration it has probably led to; however, had they had the chance to become legal, they would have had to be held accountable. I know it is a double edged sword, but realistically, they are here anyway whether we, as a society like it or not, we might as well hold them accountable for their actions, which includes getting licenses so they don't have to use fake ID's, and when they do injure someone, they'll have the insurance to pay for it like every other citizen.

Read the paper, all names that are uncommon I do not to get crap for that remark, anyway in the paper it states driving without a valid license or second offense no license what happens then, do they check the legal status of citizenship?

My brother was hit by a van full of "undocumented" immigrants. He was hurt quite badly. They presented a fake insurance card and fake ID. His truck was totaled. He had hospital bills out the wazzoo. They never showed up in court, just simply disappeared back over the border.

whythink says:Are you Native American or a HUGE hypocrite?
I am a Native American,,,I was born in America!
My father was a Native American, he was born in America!!
My Grandfather was a Native American, He was born in America!!
Anyone Born in America is a native American,,,
Anyone not born in America is not a native American,,, can I answer any other dumb questions you might have ???

Are you Native American or a HUGE hypocrite?

This seems to be a very controversial topic amongst us, and although the first reaction is to say "get them out", they create so much debt for our economy; I have to stop myself. While working for the state, time and time again, I would come across many illegals working two or three low paying jobs simultaniously to support their families. They paid taxes, used fake alliases and did what they needed to do in order to be here. They were doing jobs no American wanted to do. I understand those were exceptions; however, I would come across more exceptions on a daily basis than the stereotype that people are discussing here. In fact, I have found more Americans willing to take a handout than to take those low paying jobs because the mindset is that it is not worth it to them. We are a privelaged society and illegals flock here for that same opportunity. I agree that if immagrants are willing to work, pay the taxes, learn the pledge of allegiance, the English language, and fight for freedom, then they should be allowed some sort of citizenship status to work, even if it is on a temporary basis. It would allow them to obtain legal licenses, purchase vehicles and register them, get insurance, etc. All of which benefit our economy. We need to think about this people, and this about it realistically. For those willing to work, let them work, let them be legal, for those who don't want to, ship them back. It's not rocket science.

Oh yes it does....because it shows our government won't bother controlling LEGAL immigration and making it serve the national interest...so we can rest assured they won't lift a finger to stop illegal immigration, either, except to wave the magic amnesty wand once in awhile.

And, too many Americans love to draw the line at, "Anyone LEGALLY here is O.K. with me." But I'm here to say even LEGAL immigration processes are being ABUSED MIGHTILY by both immigrants and their backers and our own government and corrupt businesses, end result being a screw-job to the American worker and American student.

So these topics go hand-in-hand, buddy.

As for the racial nature of your comments, too bad you pulled out the race card. Didn't see anyone else doing that.

ICEMan,
You are a nut.
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More foreign students attending the UW doesn't have anything to do with illegal immigrants driving a car illegally...
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UNLESS
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YOU
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ARE
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A
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WHITE
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SUPREMIST
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AND A NUT!

What's even funnier is that if all colleges in America took and EQUAL number of these foreign students, each college would only have about 160 foreign students. So why is UW Madison more than 3800 OVER its share?? Oh, that's right...diversity comes before everything, even though it's a construct that's never been proven to have ANY intrinsic value in and of itself!! Madtown's taking up the slack for those colleges whose administrators don't like to feel as good about what worldly people and cultured leaders they are....way to go Biddy!!

And for those who think all LEGAL immigration is simply marvelous, how about this from the State Journal Friday?

"The number of international students going to college in the United States hit an all-time high of more than 670,000 students in 2008-09 according to a report published last month by the Institute of International Education. Of these students, 46.8 percent were attending graduate school, 32.4 percent were working toward an undergraduate degree, 12.2 percent were getting an associate degree and 8.6 percent were in a non-degree program.

According to UW-Madison officials, a record 3,979 international students from more than 100 countries attended school during the fall semester: 2,214 graduate students, 1,433 undergrads, 227 non-degree-seeking students, and 105 taking professional coursework. And while the number of foreign students on campus has surged by more than 500 since the fall of 2007, UW-Madison Chancellor Biddy Martin would like to see those numbers continue to grow — especially at the undergraduate level."

Typical "Politically Correct" administrator...bowing at the altar of "DIVERSITY COMES BEFORE EVERYTHING ELSE." These are the same people who preside over our students being taught that if they just say "what they feel," that's sufficient academic inquiry. Blechhh!

American students are going without spots in their FIRST choice of college, and going without SERVICES on campus, and going without INTERNSHIPS to help them into the business world due to this massive influx of foreign students....oh, I'm sorry, they don't call them "foreign" anymore...they're "international." That's so much more benign, as they chop our students' goals down!

I find it funny a few months back I made a comment about illegal alien’s being able to buy a car with out a license and proof of insurance I said they should not be able to. I also made the comment that when I worked at Waukesha Family practice we had to write off the bills for the Illegal’s I was called racists, but I still stand behind my statements if you are an illegal then you should be deported. When my mother came to this great country of ours from Germany she was told speak english and become a U.S. Citizen she did. So why not them send them back or lets just buy Mexico and make it part of the U.S. and then they can stay there and they would have a better life and we would have our jobs.

http://americanchaos.wordpress.com/how-t...

I will at least give the Gazette credit....when another one of these pro-illegal stories was published in the Cap Times in Madison, last month, it was a "day-in-the-life" story about an illegal alien couple and their kids. And it was all "Woe is them," and "Oh, they have it so hard here," and blah, blah, blah...on and on. I put some FACTS about illegal immigration into the comments section on Cap Times, and THEIR EDITOR ORDERED THE COMMENTS SECTION SHUT DOWN TO CENSOR THOSE OF US WHO PROVED THE STORY WAS PROPAGANDA!! I told a friend about it, and he's a big First Amendment guy, and he called their online editor, and the online editor just said his boss said, "The comments are getting out of line out there, way over the line...shut it all down!" And trust me, those comments weren't anywhere NEAR as "free roaming" as the ones on here are....

People, believe me when I say that you and I have been given WAY more leeway here to say what we think and to present arguments on both sides. The CapTimes censored the comments as soon as the majority were AGAINST the illegals in the story!!

Please let your editor know you appreciate that they are not stomping on free speech here!!

By the way, the dairy farms are hardly the only businesses that do this. There are PLENTY of others, such as that business in Whitewater that was warned twice about getting their paperwork in order or face the consequences and failed to comply.
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As much as I am in support of the military (I have a brother who is a vet), I am in support of DiGriz's comment about bringing them home from the worthless Middle East and concentrate them on the southern border. Well said, DiGriz.

The illegals work here, receive paychecks, and pay into the Social Security system under FALSE names. So where does all of the $$$ go to?
Gaylord Nelson had the right idea. Immigration reform needs to be revamped, and the number of people allowed to immigrate legally should remain the same =<200,000 people. We don't have the resources to be the melting pot anymore.

"whythink"....please read all the comments and you'll be better informed than what your kneejerk reaction shows. Many people have the same reaction that you did when they read the propaganda being put out by the pro-illegal alien crowd, but when they inform themselves more they see that IT IS NOT INEVITABLE THAT THESE PEOPLE BE ALLOWED TO STAY AND FLOURISH HERE....the tougher it is at all levels for them, the more they self-deport. Mexico's mad at us right now for all the returned illegals that are coming back on their own due to the recession...if we double up our enforcement efforts we can make it a flood of them returning, and getting out of our hair!

I just finished reading the article and did not read any of the comments...
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So here are my thoughts...
We can continue to refuse the driver's license to immigrants without papers and continue to risk these same immigrants driving without any knowledge of our laws OR face the fact that the safer way for all of us is to allow them to get a license.
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This is very similar to the GED while in jail issue or the legalizing drugs issue. The easiest thing is to leave everything the same..the hard thing is to face reality and think out of the box.
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This isn't just an immigrant issue either. Look at the # of people picked up for driving without a license multiple times. They are endangering all of us.
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What's the question?

If someone is in this country illegally, whether they are Mexican, Irish, Polish, Ecuadorean, whatever, they need to be removed.

The "immigrants", illegals, actually, or more accurately, undocumented migrants, are more than a threat on the road, they are a threat to the basic stability of the country itself, and to our culture.

With all the troops deployed around the world, the border could easily be sealed, and the country rid of all the illegals here already. We have acquiesced to giving a Social Security number in order to do anything at all, so why not go the next step and issue National Identity Cards? ANYONE that can't prove they were born here, well, there's the airport.

Wonder where Obama would end-up?

(continued...) 3) Nobody has talked about the state costs here. The DMV is in the middle of staff cuts, staff unpaid furlough days that make many offices understaffed, and all this in the middle of a growing driving population and a growing number of vehicle registrations. Are we going to suddenly fund the DMV at a much higher rate to cover all the increased testing? The article itself said that when illegals couldn't test anymore, there was a 90% drop in testing! Hello broken budget! 4) And, you thought you waited at the DMV BEFORE?? Try waiting behind the entire crew of a Christmas tree farm, or a dairy farm, or a salvage yard, or a restaurant's line cooks and busboys, or a construction crew....all trying to get their licenses WHILE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY! 5) And, ask Tennessee how issuing license cards to illegal aliens went...they had to discontinue theirs due to what a TOTAL MAGNET their state had become suddenly! And, Wisconsin already experienced this anyway!....in 2004, Minnesota stopped issuing licenses to illegals, but it took until 2007 for WI to join the correct side. What do you think western WI DMV's looked like during that 2004-07 period? Ask anyone who was there...it was like you'd dropped through the rabbit hole and come out in Tijuana! And the FRAUD over where people lived, and using the same address for over 70 people in six months time...believe me, my contact at the DMV could tell you war stories from that period! Wisconsin would become a COMPLETE MAGNET for MORE ILLEGAL ALIENS if we GO BACK to allowing these invaders licenses.

SarahB1, you don't understand the issue. You must be very young or uninformed. And as for your comparisons, you're comparing apples and oranges.

It's funny that I never see anyone push to arrest all of the drivers I see rolling through stop signs, doing illegal U-turns, tossing garbage out their windows, not using their headlights when it is raining, dropping their kids off in "no-drop" zones, etc. Wouldn't it be cheaper to enforce these safety laws and collect the fines than to fund deportation and all the legal work that goes with it?

Well, the bottom line is: 1) This article was written by an advocacy group that wants amnesty for illegal aliens, so please question the article on its face, to begin with. 2) The central premise, that our roads would be safer if illegal aliens were allowed licenses, is another falsity that's always hoisted up there by the pro-illegal alien crowd. The demographic that largely comprises illegals, young Latino males, are the highest-rate offenders of drunk drivers in any study done that compares age, race, and drunk driving rates. Illegal aliens are often committing identity theft on a daily basis in order to keep a false record at work, so then you have that issue at the DMV for their driver records...and more of our tax dollars to deal with it.

(have to go for a minute...more to come)

Sooner or later the "hate"-word inevitably comes up ........................Soon, people will be accused of "hating" wildflowers for mowing their lawn ......LOL

Sarah - what did you expect when the story was about flagrant law breaking? Love and empathy? I guess you only have to follow the law IF you are a U.S. citizen.....

Good grief ... what a room filled with hatred. Merry Christmas, right?!

GREAT ,IF YOUR JOB IS BEING REPLACED BY A IMMIGRANT,YOU HAD A CRAPPY JOB ANYWAY LOL.FIND A BETTER 1 LOSER. AND NOW FOR THE COPS,PULLING OVER EVERYBODY THAT COLORED OR TANNED .ONLY IN WISCONSIN LOL.

This whole story makes me sick. I am sick of these illegals running around breaking the law and getting away with it. I am sick of people defending them by finding some way to justify it. I am not against immigration, if done legally.

Very true, Lidaki. Not only that, but even LEGAL immigrants do the same thing. Many Hmong immigrants of the older generation have been here more than 20 years and don't speak a word of English and refuse to get off the dole. More Americanized and younger Hmong I've spoken with will readily admit that their older generation looks at our dole as a pretty good deal, and that with so many younger Hmong to interpret the society to them, there's virtually no incentive to learn to speak English or to "assimilate." Now, since they are legal and came as refugees after helping us in 'Nam, I don't worry too much about them, but you have to admit it's more of a tax on the rest of us when that attitude is allowed to prevail....as in, there aren't too many conditions on benefits being extended, and maybe there should be a few more, especially after refugees are out of immediate danger and don't have to worry anymore.

Another example is the Liberians in the Twin Cities. They've had their "war refugee" status extended a whole bunch of times, even though the civil war in their country that gave them status here in the first place has been OVER FOR MANY YEARS!!! Why don't we send them back now to make their country great again? They fight us tooth and nail over going back to the homeland they claimed was so torn up and the one they loved so much. So go back and fix it. The Bush administration made noises about stopping their refugee status FINALLY this past year, but the hue and cry that arose was too loud and they got their way AGAIN and were allowed to continue leeching off America some more! UGH!!!

The reason why companys hire illegals is that they say nothing about wages, health care it sucks some days I wish I was illeagal free health care more money in hand and five differnt names and don't forget they get away with everything cause they don't know english. They get a free ride.they be here for 10 to 20 years still not legal or speak english. That bugs me the most not wanting to speak english or be legal. If something happens to them quilt trip feel sorry for them not.

This is an excerpt from NumbersUSA.com, talking about how absurd it is that they KEEP TRYING TO PASS AMNESTY OVER PATRIOTIC AMERICANS' OBJECTIONS:

"NumbersUSA and its activist members fought the Bush-Kennedy-McCain amnesty [of 2006-7] every step of the way and eventually defeated it. Twice. Many Senators claimed to have heard the American people and repented for having attempted to foist a mass amnesty on the American people. But a core of hard-nosed, pro-amnesty Senators didn't get the message and tried to force through the DREAM Act amnesty. You defeated it. They tried to force through the AgJOBS amnesty. You defeated it. They tried DREAM and AgJOBS again. You defeated them.... again. After numerous defeats, politicians in both the Senate and House claimed to have seen the light and understood that when the American people said "NO" to amnesty, they meant it. When Congressmen said they would put border security and immigration enforcement first, many of us, though wary, took them at their word. Perhaps that was a mistake...."

We're ready to fight again....please join and kill the new amnesty before it can get any traction! Thanks!

Please people who care about this country's sovereign future and ability to determine the type of country that we want to live in: please sign up FREE at www.NumbersUSA.com. You just sign up, point and click, and they fire off fax after fax to YOUR representative in Congress and your two senators, and Obama, and Napolitano over at DHS, and whoever else is messing with the American rule of law regarding immigration/invasion. I get letters back from my Rep and from Feingold almost every week...you can imagine that the Feingold ones are never very agreeable or factual, but at least he knows I'm out here, and there a lot more "me's" than there are "him's" in this state, and eventually he'll either be ousted or he'll have to vote our way. Please join up at NumbersUSA.com now to help fight the AMNESTY, the FREE RIDE for illegal aliens that is being jammed into us (I won't say where!) by the illegal alien crowd and their apologists and advocates. A bill is in the House already, even though it's just some liberal table-setting for the real bill they'll debut in the Senate after the New Year....PLEASE HELP US FIGHT!! It's free and you can get family and friends to join up for a veritable GRASSFIRE of grass-roots OUTRAGE at trying to LEGALIZE 18-20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS while almost 16 million Americans look for work!!

Thanks!!

IceMan, you are 100% correct.

We should stop ALL immigration, legal and illegal, until all Americans who want fulltime work have it, and those who want parttime have what they want. Then, and only then, do we allow anymore legal immigration, and then only to fill REAL holes in occupations or studies that are not ARTIFICIALLY created by the employers and universities. So a head of lettuce goes up a quarter, and so a gallon of milk goes up fifty cents, and so IBM has to pay real American computer engineers full salary instead of paying HALF to an H1-B visa worker from India....taking our country back from these detestable invaders is much more important to our children's future.

Kay13: As someone who help my cousin and her husband try to gain legal status for him, I am very familiar with the process. It is frustrating to say the least. Right now, she is here and he is in Mexico. Credit for this goes to both them and the system. That doesn't mean that since they tried and have so far failed, that they now get to break the law.

ladulce--People have given ideas on how to keep them from coming back--It's relatively easy--go after the money that keeps them coming back. Fine these people heavily, require that E-Verify be used by ALL employers and encourage people to turn in illegal aliens by giving them an incentive to do so. The government should also be able to seize assets of those who are here illegally to help with deportation expenses. Like I said, illegal immigrants are costing California over $10 BILLION a year....If something isn't done about these lawbreakers, other states will be posting numbers like that as well......

In My Opinion
we find those people who are using the illegals and convince them that it would be in there best interest to get rid of and quit using that labor force. we may have to convince them aggressivly
B

kay...

...I'm not missing your point because your point seems to be saying that because your cousin or whatever could have made more money if he was here illegally, that the government should have just let him come and rubber stamped citizenship for him.

What I'm getting at is this, Kay...if it is illegal to be here and you are here anyway, you are breaking the law. And if you are breaking the law, you should be sent back to wherever it is that you came from. Seems pretty simple to me.

If you don't like the laws as they are, then do something to change them.

Until then, tell me WHY someone shouldn't have to obey them just because they are poor?

Kay, down off the high horse please...I've had tons of experience dealing with illegal aliens, their papers, their scams, their employers, and their American supporters and their own scams and justifications for "helping" illegals. Won't say where or how, but let's just say I'm very proud to have started quite a few on their way OUT the door back to their home country.

And, the for those who think LEGAL immigrants are all kosher...how about this? The Feds themselves found OVER 20 percent FRAUD in applications for H1-B visas...the kind big firms like Microsoft, IBM, Target, and others use to displace Americans in order to pay pennies on the dollar to foreigners to work the jobs instead. And when the Bush administration stretched out F-1 student visas from 12 to 29 months, American students quickly realized foreign students were taking internships away that were rightfully theirs. This issue is about to be heard before the Supreme Court, in fact. Don't think the LEGAL process is such a bad thing...it's already being GAMED the way it is...let alone making it easier!!

lvtoelspeak- HYSTERICAL! Too funny. Um, sorry, I am from here- and, have been for several generations. My family came from Wales. My grandfather's grandfather (whose photo graces my entryway) migrated here a very long time ago. How IGNORANT Of you to think that because I feel empathy for someone or because my name on here is in another language, that I must be an undocumented immigrant. I guess that ignorance and being a sheep makes you an "American" in your eyes? I am white. And, honey, I haven't made any "personal" attacks. There is a level of respect and professionalism that one SHOULD maintain when discussing political matters. Even more so when speaking with strangers. You making this a personal attack on my heritage or ethnicity simply means that you have nothing to offer of any weight to the conversation. Sorry to burst your bubble, though, or shatter your tiny, limited image of the world. My husband and I have both been here for several generations and have 4 beautiful blond children...

madman, I think that you're missing my point. If you're already living in poverty in your home country, how on earth can you live for a year (or more) with no income once you come to the U.S.? If you're not fluent in English, you'll need to hire a lawyer and a translator to help with all of the mountains of paperwork. If you're barely making ends meet, how will you be able to do that?
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Sure, my relative immigrated legally. But the point wasn't lost on us that he could have been working much sooner - and saved us tens of thousands of dollars - if he was here illegally.

kay....

...what part of this are you not getting...I have a world of empathy for ANYONE that comes here legally.

Anyone that is a trespasser, not so much.

Is it asking too much for someone who wants to live here to obey the laws that we have? Including the ones that say who can and can NOT be here?

THAT is all I'm asking...obey the laws, just as I have to obey the laws.

And speaking of empathy...just how much empathy do you think YOU'D get if you moved to Mexico illegally? I'll give you a hint....it's a LOT less than they get coming here.

ladulce i think that you are defending the illeagals because you and your family are these illeagals. go back to your country and try to make it a better place.

madman1961, sadly, what I said was true. I don't want to elaborate for privacy reasons, but the basic story is that my relative and I got the "fraud interview" and threats of prison/fines. It really made me see immigration in a new light. I just wish everyone here had some first-hand experience... it might cultivate some empathy or understanding.

Illegal immigrants are not all here to work on dairy farms. There are significant risks to not securing our borders. The American way of life would be destroyed if our enemies had their way. There is a reason for people to comply with the immigration laws.

Illegals are most often hard workers but they are not entirely beneficial to the US. A huge amount of the money they make is sent out of the country, hurting our trade imbalance. They cost us for the services they use and they are breaking the law.

kay13...

...how about explaining yourself a little bit here? Because something in what you are claiming doesn't seem to ring true.

I'll understand if you don't want to air all of your laundry, but you should be willing and able to back up what you are putting forth as fact.

Knew this topic would bring out Janesburg's finest.

in_my_opinion, I'm an American citizen who was unfairly threatened with prison and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines when sponsoring a relative in the LEGAL immigration process. My relative was in the country for a full year with NO income before he could work legally - and he couldn't even leave the U.S. during that time to see his family.
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I cannot imagine going through the legal immigration process if I was poor or a non-native English speaker. It's so clear that most of you have no idea what this process actually entails.

madisonwest: "Perhaps if the immigration process was not as difficult and lengthy as it currently is, more people would become citizens instead of taking their chances coming here in the way that they do." -information needs to be verified. Are you suggesting we forego an extensive background check?

"But most of you wouldn't like that either would you? For you it seems, it's all about demonizing the "scary brown people" Americans always need a cause, and the current cause is "saving" our country from these people who have the audacity to want to live among us!" -this is an idiotic statement at best. All we are saying is that the government put laws into place for a reason. Now, they need to enforce them instead of trying to come up with ways to work around the laws. Wanting law abiding citizens as my neighbors isn't too big of a request.

"Like the chance to look over their shoulder all the time, while working 12-16 hour days,7 days a week, hoping that a "patriotic American citizen" such as yourself doesn't become suspicious of them when they are mowing your lawn or cooking your food at the restaurant or roofing your house, and call the authorities to have them deported like a bag of garbage.Worrying what will happen to their family that they will have to leave behind." -IF THEY COME HERE LEGALLY, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT NOW WOULD THEY?

"Typical of most Americans that I know, "I got mine, don't you dare try to ask me to help someone else" -This is just laughable. I'm more than happy to help any American Citizen I can. Key words there are "America Citizens". If you can't respect my country enough to follow the laws then I will gladly help you go home.

I dont want to be prejudice but whenever I am driving and someone is doing something really stupid and it looks like they have no clue on how to drive I say to who ever is in my car with me "they are probable Mexican" and 95% of the time they are. Something has to be done get these people off the road. Also if we know that these dairy farms are using illeagal aliens then why dont INS go and do something.

madisonwest, I fully agree with you. And mark_twain, the comment you reference is hate speech. I also suggested removal of JohnWayne's racist comment.
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These comments make me ashamed to be from Janesville... and it makes me wonder how far we've come since the KKK rally held here when I was a child.

madisonwest...

...where have I EVER said that people should NOT be allowed to immigrate into this country?

I agree with you that this is STILL, even with all its problems, the greatest country on the planet...my forefathers and mothers thought so, too...that's why they came here.

The ONLY point you will EVER hear from me on the subject is about ILLEGAL aliens...not illegal immigrants, because there is no such thing.

Should the immigration process be easier and maybe a little faster...sure, I'll give you that...but for the time being, it is what it is.

I don't think that going out and looking for illegals is worth the time or the money...but when someone is found through other means...traffic stop, other crime or a job sweep....then we should be able to send them home...not let them out on bail or run to their home countries consulate to cry for help....just send them home.

Wow! just wow! The level of hatred and intolerance displayed here is staggering.Have you people no shame? This is still the greatest country in the world. Despite all of our problems, it's understandable that anyone, no matter their country of origin would want to settle here. Perhaps if the immigration process was not as difficult and lengthy as it currently is, more people would become citizens instead of taking their chances coming here in the way that they do. But most of you wouldn't like that either would you? For you it seems, it's all about demonizing the "scary brown people" Americans always need a cause, and the current cause is "saving" our country from these people who have the audacity to want to live among us! Pathetic! Boy, they sure do have it easy huh? getting things that you good American born citizens can't have? Like the chance to look over their shoulder all the time, while working 12-16 hour days,7 days a week, hoping that a "patriotic American citizen" such as yourself doesn't become suspicious of them when they are mowing your lawn or cooking your food at the restaurant or roofing your house, and call the authorities to have them deported like a bag of garbage.Worrying what will happen to their family that they will have to leave behind.You people are amazing. So many like to speak of the hard times that their ancestors lived through when they came to the United States all those years ago. Their sacrifices and their hardships have made it easy for you to speak so forcefully on this subject,with so little sacrifice of your own. Typical of most Americans that I know, "I got mine, don't you dare try to ask me to help someone else"

ICEman- I can appreciate mostly all of your comments and your reference to the NumbersUSA website....but the fact remains that a large percentage of people in this country that claim to be broke, jobless, and in all manner of other turmoil will inexpicably spend a very significant portion of their time engulfed in utter nonsense rather than trying to solve their own problems...............People claiming to be "broke" or "taxed to death" that are obsessed with rich people playing "games" is the ultimate in Cognitive Dissonance..............If people spent as much time doing relevant things as they do "watching games", reading "scores" and prattling on and on about utter nonsense, things would be really looking UP by now.

I am saying that if we are going to spend BILLIONS of dollars and have to do it again every 3 years, YES, let's save our money until we have a realistic plan and solution. Please remember that there are whole committees and many groups of people trying to find a solution to this issue, that are paid for exactly that. And, they have thus far agreed that it would be virtually impossible to find them all, the cost to deport them would be outrageous, and, it would not provide a solution to the problem.

ladulce...

....so you are saying that since we can't keep someone from coming BACK after we send them away, we shouldn't even bother sending them away?

The problem now is with political correctness! Under PC the term Illegal now means a sick bird............

LaDulce...Eisenhower's "Operation Wetback" in the 1950's....yes, that was the real federal name of the operation....(oh, for the days before P.C.!!!).

Eisenhower deported them back to the SOUTHERN TIP of Mexico using warships and trains and buses. They did not mess around with dropping them off just over the border. And, if Teddy Kennedy hadn't COMMITTED HIGH TREASON against this nation with his 1960's immigration overhaul that sent this country down this road to hell, we'd still be sitting pretty, and unemployment right now would be HALF of what it is. So, deportation can work, and militarizing the border down there, along with the fence, and along with massive tipline rewards, can really shut this thing down for good. People need to know this is not an unending tide, and can be reversed with law enforcement and citizen involvement!

Citizens can make a difference...insist on compliance with the law...don't let them get away on the "wink-and-nod" tradition with illegal employment. I started the ball rolling at an Olive Garden in another state one time when confronting the manager over what appeared to be a group of illegal workers...a friend who lives near there kept calling them after I'd left town to check if they'd used my E-Verify handout to sign up to check their employees before hiring, and eventually they kicked him up to corporate level and someone said they were personally going to insure that that single restaurant would be in the E-Verify database by 60 days time. This was several years ago, and let's just say, the last time I visited and we went back -- slightly incognito! -- the workforce there matches the demographics of the surrounding community A LOT better and A LOT more LEGALLY, I'm sure!!

Madman- I didn't need examples of the changes to the amendments, I was already aware of them. And, yes, I appreciate facts that support matter of opinion. You provided facts. Thank you.

And, not that this is up to me (obviously), but, I do think that our government should have control over who lives here. I believe that laws should be enforced, but, honestly, should have been enforced 40 years ago. The way the situation is right now is a nightmare and there are too many variables and special interest groups to get anything changed.
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Furthermore, I think that COMPREHENSIVE reform has to include a myriad of corrections, enforcements, and new laws. IF they were to be deported, then there has to be a way for them to not come back. I personally know of a gentleman that has been deported 4 times and comes back each time without losing his job. Deporting them without having a preventative measure for them coming back makes the deportation nothing more than expense with no result. There needs to be some sort of law as it refers to the children- those that were born here, those that know this as their only home, etc. I definitely think that it is within the powers of the USA to deport. However, looking at this realistically, it is WAY beyond our budget, and, would provide only a very temporary solution. I merely want people to understand that it is more complex than just "get 'em all and throw 'em back". There is a lot more to it- including fiscal matters, legal matters with children, and moral matters in world-wide public eye.

By the way, anyone who suspects illegal aliens are being employed, please report it to the Feds who enforce that on businesses: 1-866-DHS-2-ICE.

You can remain anonymous, but please have something for them to go on when reporting it. I reported an employer one time because I noticed the entire kitchen and bus area was filled with what appeared to be non-English speaking, low-skilled labor that is the major jobs magnet for illegals. That isn't why I reported them...though....it was how the manager reacted when I asked him about it and gave him the "E-Verify" handout I love to give to such employers. He had a cow about it, and almost called me a racist, and got real sweaty and red. That's all I needed, and now I.C.E. is in possession of a very detailed description of what his work force looks like and how he reacted to the idea he should use E-Verify to screen his hiring to make sure he's in compliance!

I suggest that many of you go out and do the same....just don't make your move until AFTER you've eaten!!

ladulce...

You thank me for examples and then tell me that they aren't really needed...why is that? Because you already knew about them but they didn't fit with what you believe is the "right" way?

Or because you believe that my examples should STILL be allowed. I really doubt that that is it, but you don't really say much as to the validity of my statement.

So tell me something....do you believe that the government of this country should have no say or control of who lives here?

And why is it that you don't think that laws should be enforced?

Mandatory E-Verify and S.A.V.E. system clearance for all employment in America, mandatory S.A.V.E. clearance for all social services and education, mandatory non-Huber jail time and prison time for employers and their personnel officers when busted for illegals, a return to workplace raids accompanied by massive increases in rewards for whistle-blowing on illegal employers, and full enforcement of 287(g) with full immigration arrest powers for local, county, state, and federal officers, with expedited deportation paid for by employer fines until this problem is solved!!

Then we'll have our country back in less than 5 years, and we can go back to being a beacon for the world, with only LEGAL immigration that serves OUR purposes...not those of only the immigrants and their advocates.

Why the Mexican citizenry doesn't maintain that it's ILLEGAL for their country's leaders to allow so much drugs and corruption and such a crappy economy...I don't know. I'd say they're just weaker as a citizenry, and need to build up their stomachs for a fight for their country's future. We did it in 1776, and I'd have loved to take Vegas odds on our chances back then. Mexico has the same opportunity, but they shirk their duties as Mexican citizens and instead sneak up here as cowardly lawbreakers. TAKE YOUR COUNTRY BACK!! (and, THIS ONE isn't it!!)

Two citizen parents = legal citizen child.
One citizen parent, one legal resident parent = one probationary child.
One citizen parent, one illegal parent = one illegal child.

The taint of illegal status has to paint with a broader brush than automatic access to all the goodies of citizenship.

Americans SHOULD be angry and hostile to ILLEGAL INVADERS! That's what formed this country in the first place...we maintained, finally, that it was ILLEGAL for the King to mess us over so much, and so we booted his butt out of power. It is clearly illegal to come here illegally, stay here illegally, drive here illegally, work here illegally, access benefits here illegally, steal identities for work illegally, use real citizens' Social Security numbers illegally, and on and on and on and on.....

I want the laws enforced, and am justifiably outraged when the MINORITY of my fellow Americans continues to push for more catering to illegal aliens.

I read pretty carefully.... You have 2 separate ideas for the same issue. See?

Per your post: I also propose that if EITHER parent is illegal, the child is illegal, no matter what.

...and if you go back to what I said...I said "something in the middle," as in, a probationary type of status that doesn't allow full citizenship if one parent was not a citizen until certain conditions are met...like once both parents are citizens, or the kid keeps their nose clean all through school and then petitions for full citizenship. Please read more carefully.

Yes...anger and hostility at watching SELECTIVE law enforcement for something that is BANKRUPTING this country at all levels of government!! The Wisconsin Troopers Association comes out in support of licenses for illegals, but if you speak with rank-and-file troopers they'll tell you it's just a "get out of jail free" card for illegals...and it's a way to cut race-based complaints against officers. It's less about road safety, but that's the "shield" that advocates for this madness hide behind.

Iceman- You speak with much anger and hostility. Your tone undermines that which you are trying to say. You are correct- some theorize that was the original intent, though it is contestable. However, it is ridiculous to say that if one parent is not legal, and one a citizen the child is not a citizen either. THat would mean that if I were to marry a gentleman in France and we have a child there, the child would only have French citizenship. That is silly.
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madman- I didn't really need any examples, but, thanks for the extra effort. LOL. This proposal has been brought up politically and people don't want to start changing the amendments. Particularly, the NRA and other big political party funding sources don't want it to be changed because if we change the 14th, they fear it would be too easy to change the 2nd. The reality as I see it is this; politicians don't want to change it, so, they won't. They have too much to lose, personally, if it were repealed.

so, fromjanesvilletowaukesha, this is NOT a situation that's here to stay....they WILL GO HOME if we MAKE THEM with enforcement!

Arizona passed a GREAT law which basically was a two-strikes law against businesses which hire illegals...lose your business license on the second strike. THE MEXICAN STATE RIGHT BELOW ARIZONA started COMPLAINING TO THE U.S. THAT ILLEGALS WERE STREAMING BACK INTO MEXICO TOO FAST FOR THEIR TASTE!!!!! Is that rich, or what??

Pass the laws, enforce the heck out of them, and illegals WILL GO BACK!!

WRONG! Deportation is SELF-DEPORTATION when the society makes and enforces the laws that make SELF-DEPORTATION happen!!

Rather than improve a situation that is here to stay let's make it harder for these members of our society. Last time i discussed the illegal immigration issue i didn't hear many people willing to double state income taxes in order to address deportation costs. Now those which would, can't even buy car insurance because they can't legally drive. I'm sure since the law passed most illegals just stopped driving altogether since it's against the law. Another ingenious idea with real results from our elected officials.

drunks also kill people on the roads, but Wisconsin still has some of the flimsiest laws around regarding drunks.

Yes, Ladulce, I understand...I also don't care.

It would not be the first time that something that was legal was corrected.

Example, you ask? Easy....once upon a time, it was legal to own another man...namely, slaves. Also, it used to be legal for a man to beat his wife, as she was not a person, but property.

The part of the 14th that I'd like to see narrowed is to make it that IF the birth parents are legal, then citizenship is granted.

If the birth parents are NOT legal, then neither is the child.

...and remember, the immigrants themselves have spoken! Remember back in June, during the budget debate over licenses for illegals, State Sen. Tim Carpenter heard TONS of calls from his district...and he's got TONS of immigrants there, but mostly LEGAL IMMIGRANTS!! And he reported that OVER 90% of his calls came in AGAINST illegal aliens getting licenses!! That's what immigrants who followed the rules think of those who don't follow the rules!

I know peaple that hire these peaple for cheap help then turn around & complain that there here

...as for the 14th Amendment, it was passed to insure that the children of SLAVES would not be forced into anything less than full citizenship. That limited purpose is now done with...so the 14th Amendment should be repealed, and we should adopt the WORLDWIDE standard that if BOTH parents aren't citizens, the child is not born a citizen, but something in the middle. I also propose that if EITHER parent is illegal, the child is illegal, no matter what. That would stop the drain on resources we currently see from all the gullible citizens who hook up with an illegal, and then the citizen parent and "so-called citizen" child get to suckle on the public trough while the illegal parent makes their walking-around money!

...and it's NEVER xenophobic or racist to simply want one's nation to be a "NATION OF LAWS, not men," as our founders foresaw long ago!!

Kay...ancestors who came here either followed the laws in place at that time, or in the case of the Mayflower...benefitted from the fact that the Natives had not set up a sovereign border and remained a divided group of "nations" on this continent. So don't equate current illegals to old immigrants...the laws either weren't there then, or the ones that were there were followed. Not only that, but many of "our" ancestors had their names changed for the convenience of whoever was checking them in, so don't say they weren't dehumanized, as well.

Wow, zettrdr, I'm assuming that you're talking about how white European immigrants harmed the Native American tribes here. Unless you claim tribal affiliation, NONE of us can claim that we are native to this land.

ladulce.........I would hope that NONE of these mothers would abandon their children in a foreign country. They are here illegally--they know they can be deported at any time--they were aware of this when they had their children here. I realize that asking them to do the "right" thing is a stretch, but considering that these are their children that we are talking about, I would hope that they could be better people than they have in their lawbreaking pasts. We are experiencing double digit unemployment. If the illegal aliens were forced out, American citizens could remove themselves from the welfare and unemployment roles and could once again start contributing to the tax base, instead of being a burden to it. Illegal aliens know how to play the system--they claim an excessive amount of exemptions so that a minimal amount of tax is withdrawn on their paycheck. Their kids allow them to qualify for social programs that are underfunded and overburdened. The expense that these people cost California alone is over $10 billion dollars a year. We can no longer turn a blind eye to these criminals. Whatever the expense, they need to be deported and the employers that enable their existence here need to be fined and put on display.....

ladulce and sannio, thank you for your perspective. So often, I feel like the comments here are evidence of ignorance and xenophobia, and it's refreshing to see comments that show research and empathy on the topic.
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Folks, most of our ancestors immigrated to this country at one time or another. It's clear that few of you have ever known a first-generation immigrant or have tried to go through the legal immigration process yourselves. It's incredibly hard, time-consuming, and expensive - but members of my own family have done it. I'm American-born, and I was threatened with 10 years in prison and $250,000 in fines during the LEGAL immigration process. I did nothing wrong, but I want to tell you that the immigration process is not simple, short, or free. For those immigrating who are in poverty or who are not fluent in English, it is that much more impossible.
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To educate yourselves a bit on the topic of immigration, I would suggest the classic "El Norte." It's always good to try to see things from another perspective, before you make blanket or outright incorrect statements. Here, I've seen hdonlybob talking about "those people" as if they were less than human, madman1961 proposing to flaunt the laws regarding birth and nationality, Biscuit5 proposing that we become vigilantes, frusion who apparently has no idea how the American economy actually runs, and
916WI who is unaware of how many immigration raids have resulted in parents being forever separated from their children.

Truth1....you're right to a point...but people can really get involved in stopping the amnesty plans that this administration has planned to jam down our throats: Join FREE at www.NumbersUSA.com, where THEY SEND FAXES TO YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ON YOUR BEHALF ON ALL IMMIGRATION TOPICS....you just point and click to shoot them off, one after the other! During the Senate debate over illegal alien amnesty in June 2007, NumbersUSA members MELTED DOWN the phone lines into the Senate the morning of the make-or-break vote, and prompted enough Senators to switch to the CORRECT, ANTI-AMNESTY side to kill the bill! That effort also launched the Bush administration into a terrific, two-year push to enforce workplace raids and really hammer illegal aliens and their employers until Obama took over and called off the dogs. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS BEING A "NATION OF LAWS" AND THIS BEING A NATION OF ILLEGAL ALIEN ADVOCATES GETTING THEIR WAY BY FORCING AMNESTY DOWN OUR THROATS!

One number: 8 million illegal aliens hold jobs while almost 16 million Americans look for work!! (Oh yeah, and that DOESN'T include farm laborers...we're only talking jobs Americans have proven to "want" to do!)

Sick, sick numbers....please join at NumbersUSA.com to help stop this garbage!!

Thanks!

Heres the thing if they cant keep them out of here what makes you think that 911 wont happen again? But this time on a bigger scale

Look to nature to see the true results of what can happen when an 'invasive species' arrives at our doorstep either intentionally or just escapes. The results usually are that the 'native plants and animals' suffer greatly and those behind their being here in the first place say they just didn't know the negitive impact of what their actions could cause. In this case, those who do hire illegals do know but depend on social systems to cover the costs of health care, education of children who can't speak english and as for being on the roads, well I guess the rest of us are just collateral damage and should be willing to risk injury or life for the price of butter and milk.

And LaDulce...actually, the law change at DMV in Wisconsin was in April 2007! And, from my neighbor who works at DMV, locking the office door at the end of the last day illegals could get licenses "was the best moment of my career so far." He and his mates let out a war whoop audible to many in their office park, I guess, and I let a whoop out when he told me how joyous it was! He said in the months following April 1, 2007, "it was like getting a raise every week...less and less illegals coming in every shift!!" THAT'S LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT WORKS!! Look at the 90% drop in attempts at the written test in Spanish...and yet open-borders advocates and the dairy industry want to claim that only HALF those workers are illegals?? TRY 75-90%...more like it.

Nothing gets done about anything because most people just want to verbalize problems for ten seconds then forget all about it.....Solving problems critical to your own welfare is much less important than mesmerizing yourself to the tv for 3 hours when there is a "game" or some other nonsensical drivel.........................The politicians must think they're in heaven.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE CENTRAL IDEA IN THIS ARTICLE...it is WRONG!! THE ROADS WILL *NOT* BE SAFER IF ILLEGALS CAN GET LICENSES!! Please bear witness: (1) Traffic deaths PLUMMETING in this country FOR WHATEVER REASON OVER THE PAST DECADE!! Oh, guess what?? That decade matches up with America coming all the way down to only 4 or 5 states that illegals can get licenses in!! It was over HALF the states just a short time ago! Coincidence? I think NOT!!! (2) Illegal aliens are mostly Latino, and most of them are young male Latinos...that's the government's numbers, not mine. Study after study shows YOUNG LATINO ILLEGALS DRIVE DRUNK AT EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER RATES THAN ANY OTHER GROUP, PERIOD!! That again is coming from documented sources, and is even something that Latino advocates will admit to, when pressed: young Latino males are WAY BEHIND the message that young Americans have been receiving on drinking/driving, and therefore still think it's "macho" to drive drunk, and do lots of stuff drunk. (3) Illegal alien CRIME commission in general runs WAY above the average, and therefore more of their driving will be before, during, or after the commission of a crime, making them more likely to "attempt to elude" police, endangering many more innocent, legal people. (4) Illegal aliens do not respect the licensing process, as they are only after the final product, the license, and do not feel it is in their interest to truly become good drivers before attempting their driving test. My neighbor works at DMV and tells me stories are legendary about illegals coming in for tests less than a month after getting a permit, and almost killing the examiner with crappy driving. Add the language infrastructure the DMV has to maintain for non-English speakers, and taxpayers are almost getting killed, too. Many illegals manage to barely pass the written test and then drive ALONE on their permit for the forseeable future, figuring they can at least show police they took the written test and claim they're "trying their best" to comply...faking ignorance that it wasn't a full license.

In conclusion....Yeah, that's real safe for our roads!

Undocumented, Illegal, blah blah blah.......
What is wrong here....cut it any way you want.
THESE PEOPLE DO NOT BELONG HERE, and there is no reason to tolerate there presence here.
If here legally, no problem. Get a license like the rest of us do.
And what is wrong with the dairy farmers hiring them???
Absolute crap.

So this is why my car insurance jumped up alot! I am paying for the illegals again.

The author, Jacob Kushner, and this "Center for Investigative Journalism," are far-left shills masquerading as non-partisan "journalists." See their staff listing at WisconsinWatch.org and you'll see that most of them come with Latin Studies degrees and ties to open-border amnesty advocacy. So PLEASE CONSIDER THIS ARTICLE COMES FROM A VERY BIASED SOURCE, to begin with. This author, Kushner, spent time in Haiti "exposing" discrimination against Dominican students, or some drivel like that, so he's WAY OFF THE MAINSTREAM when it comes to "investigative journalism" on immigration and illegal aliens like those in the story. This Center for Investigative Journalism is running a series lately, trying their darnedest to set the table for the amnesty legislation that is starting to be worked up in Congress, with the blessing of Obama, Reid, and Pelosi. Folks, please don't believe a word coming out of these very uninformed sources, who fail to see that Americans deserve to be the FIRST CONCERN of our EMPLOYEES...the Congress and President, IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, for heaven's sake. Immigration law should be about ENFORCEMENT, because studies show that when you put one dollar into enforcement against fraud and other lawbreaking, your treasury gets THREE dollars back!! Sounds like just the ticket for these budgetary times...more to come............

916DWI- While some parents may want to take their children with them (and do so), there are still many others that would opt for their children to get the life that is afforded here in the United States. Since these children are citizens, they can't be "kicked out" forcefully. And, you think that we are going to "make up" more than 100 billion dollars? LOL. Ok, how about this? Each of these 12-20 million people are occupying property (rent or own), these homesteads would become vacant. How many dollars do you think these 12 million people spend to eat? on cars? Clothing? Beauty products? Gasoline? Electricity for the home? OH, and, THE 56 BILLION PAID TO SOCIAL SECURITY Administration???

Taxes paid by undocumented immigrants go into the SSA’s “suspense file,” when the Social Security number does not match SSA’s records. In 2002, the suspense file grew by $56 billion in reported earnings, with about $7 billion in Social Security tax and $1.5 billion in Medicare tax paid. This tax contribution represents about 10% of the current Social Security surplus—the difference between what is being collected in Social Security taxes and what is being paid out in benefits."
http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopD...

"undocumented immigrants" is PC speak for illegal aliens.

"Mario Garcia, youth coordinator at the Madison-based nonprofit agency Centro Hispano, said the inability of immigrant workers to drive legally makes Wisconsin roads dangerous for all"

No Mario, immigrants should immgrate legally. Then they pose no threat. This issue is much larger than drivers licenses.

ladulce--Try not to be so dramatic. No one is talking about "ripping babies from the hands of their mothers"....I'm quite certain that these mothers will be given the opportunity to take their kids with them--as they should. I'm sure thousands of people who move to other countries(legally) deal with this every year. We'll give a free ride to the children too.....As far as the deportation costs go, I think that the number is exaggerated. Even if it isn't, I'm sure that can be made up in a year considering the amount that will be saved in not having this group of people burden our social programs, medical system, prison system, etc.

Every thing that could be said about these peaple has been said , there are a lot of peaple that hire these peaple for cheap help & this is from the top on down , No one with the power to fix it has the gut's to do so. vote them out of office,

When my Father came here from Italy, he didn't have get any help or handouts. He worked his behind off 7 days a week and sometimes for 16 hours a day to support his family. Nowadays, we have to give illegals everything. Give them free healthcare, foodstamps, amnesty, etc. What happened to our country. Citizens here can't even get the same care we give to illegals. My husband lost his job 1-1/2 years ago. He is going to school to learn a trade at 50+ years old. We haven't had any medical insurance since then because we can't afford it. And here we are supporting illegals. The US can't even take care of its own. The point is, they are here illegally. No other country would cater to illegals the way our country does. I am in my 50's and have worked hard most of my life. I am a US citizen born here, and I can't even get what our government gives to the illegals. We have millions uninsured and unemployed here, yet we can afford to give our tax money to those who are here illegally. Shameful!

916wi-I totally disagree that we didn't have the problem 10-15years ago. The reason it didn't seem like a problem was because everyone had jobs 10-15 years ago and jobs the illegals were doing were jobs no U.S. citizen needed then to survive. The illegal immigration proble grew exponentially under Ronald Reagan in the mid 80's. California was the biggest "consumer" of illegals and it has grown into what we have today.

Madman- you do understand that what you are proposing would change the 14th amendment to the Constitution? As it states currently, Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution on July 9, 1868, birthright citizenship in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.[2]"

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am1...

ladulce...

...Actually, it's quite easy to deal with deporting someone that was born here...

....if the parents are NOT here legally, then any off-spring of said parents would also be illegal...

...so when you deport the Mom that isn't here legally, she will have to take her child with her.

It's sort of like this analogy...if your cat gives birth to a litter of kittens in the stove, you still call them kittens, not biscuits.

Like I said....easy.

Also, there is another very complex issue that isn't being considered by the "deport" crowd. IF a child is born on American soil, it is an American. An American-born child can't be deported to any other country. So, if parents were to be deported, what happens to their citizen children? Foster system? Orphanages? Also, there are many bi-cultural children that have one undocumented parent and one citizen parent (in some cases even married), and, if one parent were no longer providing support, the citizen parent would have to go on public assistance. MANY years ago, "deport" may have worked, but, it isn't that simple any longer. I don't know what the answer is, but, it is more complicated than that. There are too many variables- the cost impact of the 94 billion plus man hours, then, the 2 billion for the fence (estimate), is not feasible given the state of our economy. Add to it the social issues and increased children on public assistance and abandoned children, and, it becomes a fiscal impossibility (not to mention that the rest of the world probably wouldn't think very well of us ripping babies from the arms of mothers as they are thrown back over the border)....

"It shows that neither the Republican Party nor the Democratic Party in Wisconsin or nationally have the intention to fix the problems that are most urgent to our people," said Alex Gillis, advocate for the Madison immigration rights group Immigrant Workers' Union.__________ Just which "problem" is he referring to? I doubt if it is the same one that comes to my mind...

Some comments have touched on what I feel is the underlying problem. If no one "employed" illegal aliens, they would have no where to work. Farmers are knowingly and willfully exploiting illegal labor. Employers of illegals need to be just as harshly criticized. If farmers were so concerned, they would actively work to naturalize these illegals and help them to attain legal working status. Instead they keep the illegals living in a world of fear and paranoia. Any person who knowingly hires illegal aliens, and is reasonably aware that these illegals are driving on public roads. They should be held financially and legally accountable for their see no evil hear no evil approach. The illegal aliens are partly to blame, but the individuals who "hire or employee" these aliens also have to shoulder the fault.

For those of you that are saying "deport"- According to ICE, the MINIMUM cost would be 94 BILLION dollars, and, that doesn't include the man-hours spent looking for them.
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http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09...
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A 2,000 mile state-of-the-art border fence has been estimated to cost between four and eight billion dollars. Costs for a wall that would run the entire length of the border might be as low as $851 million for a standard 10-foot prison chain link fence topped by razor wire. For another $362 million, the fence could be electrified. A larger 12-foot tall, two-foot-thick concrete wall painted on both sides would run about $2 billion. And, it is a fence- one can still get under it (40 tunnels have been discovered since 9/11).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/s...

I just don't get it. Why are we even talking about adjusting laws and rules to allow other laws and rules to be broken??? I don't believe for a second that illegal aliens are critical to our economy. They are in fact changing our economy in an unnatural way. They are affecting supply and demand because they allow themselves to work for less wage than the normalized economy would have as a standard. AND, they CAN get by doing it for this story's very theme. With no licence and no insurance, they operate on much less living expense than the rest of us. FOLLOW immigration laws and I have NO problem with them coming to the US to make a better life for themselves but if you are here illegally, please leave now.

Yes, the state now required them to show SS card for their DL and of course there is none so why get a DL? Much less Insurance....just put another name behind the ones you already have and woolaa; new person!! We have done alot of this ourselves and I believe only the government and state is to blame but that is only my personal opinion...race is not an issue but the loopholes are!!

If you choose not to obey the laws, your options are as follows:
1. Go to jail
2. Get out.

I have seen first hand many immigrant young hispanic men who get involved with gangs because of their socioeconomic status. Language barrier, violence, alcohol abuse, poor, etc. Hispanic young men make up more of a percentage in all gangs. Dealing with these gangs places a great burden on our law enforcement and justice system. Believe me, we have enough troubles with our own citizens let alone criminals from other countries. We need to deport illegal aliens immediately.

in_my_opinion: What Janesville company are you describing? Why not give us the name so that something can be done about it?

Some of you say make them legal but even the legal immigrants fail to properly insure their homes and vehicles. Everything is dealt in cash and if they kill someone they can just bolt right back across the border. The State of Wisconsin should be following suit with Illinois and making insurance a requirement and if you fail to provide insurance when you are pulled over you are put in jail and license taken until your court hearing. This is done in Illinois and should be done in Wisconsin as well.

You can't say that their spending most of their income here in the form of rent, electricity, etc. Why? Cuz' 15 people move into one house and they split everything. They seldom go out to eat cuz' they are working all the hours they can get.
Don't talk to me about Americans not wanting the jobs. Hello?! I'd love a job right now. Even if it is for $8 an hour. There's a company right in Janesville who won't hire anyone that's not hispanic. I know people who work there and it's a running joke. Anybody else fills out an application and they shove it in a drawer. They don't even look at it.
I apply for jobs and one of the first questions I'm asked is "Do you speak spanish?"...um' NO, I speak English. Imagine that.
Build a wall, round up the ones that are here against the law, and throw them over the wall. Put the national guard on the wall with orders to shoot anyone trying to crawl over/under it. Sound harsh? Too bad. I'm sick and tired of bailing out other countries when we can't even take care of our own. I am not worried if the kids in the middle east are educated when our own schools are falling down. I don't care if people are starving in other countries when a high number of people here are also starving.
The United States has no right to stick their nose in other countries business until it can take care of its own business.
And for the record, since no one can say anything negative about another country without being accused of being racist, I am not. I'm just tired of struggling to survive while my government jumps through hoops to help illegal aliens.

kman.....I would be more than willing to pay more for my milk and butter knowing that the dairy vendors were employing Americans and not illegal aliens....The companies that hire illegal employees should be heavily fined--if the employment opportunity for this group of people disappeared they could not survive here and would have to return home.....

So what is the penalty to an employer for not filing I9's for their employees, let alone payroll tax evasion? If illegals account for 40% of the workforce what does that tell about how many dairy farms are also illegal?

Baffles the mind sometimes how things go, doesn't it? Eventually things catch up with folks. Might even catch up with this economy / country too.
So, 40% of the state roads should be avoided at certain times. Thanks for the warning. Ummm What roads?
Since this government decides to look the other way really, Why make the laws at all? Baffles the mind...sigh*
Deep down inside, you know where things are going to end up, rite? And you thought Montazuma's revenge was from drinking the water...Thats a laugh.

For those of you that are saying that they should "become" legal, or "apply" for citizenship, you are probably unaware that ICE (previously INS) has frozen all VISAS for citizens of certain countries (mostly Central and South America, but, includes Mexico). As the law currently stands, even if one was to marry an American citizen, he is not given a legal right to be here- regardless of his marriage or his paternity to American Citizen children. Therefore, there is no way for these people to "become" legal.
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Also, it is very narrow minded to think that all of their money is sent "home". I remind you, that while they may be sending some money home, they are spending most of their income here on rent, electricity, car, gas for car, food, clothing, restaurants, household items, etc. I can't disagree with the point that if it were a citizen, odds are 100% would be staying in country, but, with the undocumented the majority of income is still staying here.

For you information couchsit, there are young people in the area who are willing to do dairy chores. My son and his girlfriend are two of them. They get paid about $8.00 a hour for each milking. Young people want jobs right, and if they had a chance many of them would take a job working with dairy animals. It is hard work, and difficult hours, and no benefits, but these are difficult times. So please don't think young people won't take these jobs.

Wal Mart has destroyed us. The little guy has been drivin out and we are conditioned to value shopping..aka Wal Mart. Most all we purchase is from 2 places. CHI and NA. The immigrant workforce will topple the "system" as we know it.

Become legal and then award them our priviledges I know they are here and earn US money send it to their country to support their families there and this country is struggling to stay afloat. I personally think they should be deported back and apply to be here legally. To give give give to illegals is to take our country into a deeper hole then we are already in!!!!! Yes laws of this type need to change and get a hell of a lot TOUGHER!!!!

federal laws need to be enacted to prohibit any city or state from enacting sanctuary laws. when illegals are found they need to be deported. when US companies are found to be employing illegals they need to be fined.

and by the way..an undocumented immigrant sounds like someone who has lost their green card. call these people what they are: criminals. they are here ILLEGALLY. no liberal propaganda can erase this FACT.

I disagree completely ladulce. 10 or 15 years ago we did not have the illegal immigration problem that is overwhelming us today. The law was changed simply to close a loophole that a growing group of lawbreakers was taking advantage of. It would make no sense to actually reward lawbreakers that have been taking advantage of the system for a longer period of time by "grandfathering" them in.....

This is an interesting point that article seems to have left out. Until April of 2008, one did not need show proof of legal status to obtain a drivers license. They merely presented proof of residency (Alliant bill or similar), birth certificate, etc. and they could take the test. The Wisconsin law changed in April '08 requiring DMV employees to request proof of status and verify it through Social Security Administration. ANYWAY,this doesn't only apply to new applicants for licenses. This also applies to people that may have had their licenses for 10, 15 years or more. Suddenly, they are driving illegally, because the law afforded them no chance of being grandfathered in and maintaining their license. I don't know what the problem is, but, I find this to be and interesting issue. People that HAVE passed the test and have had a license with no issues, IMO, should be allowed to keep their licenses.

This is a little of topic but if you want to get the root cause of the problem it is that Americans want everything as cheap as possible without realizing what it takes to do that. Do you think farmers can afford wages that most legal citizens will stick around for when we need our $1 Menu? Hard physical labor at 5am in all weather for minimum wage, I don't think so, even with the current economy. Percentage wise we spend about 10% of our income on food, about half it was in 1940, even with the fact we eat out at a higher percentage. http://wisconsinwatch.org/?p=2033

I absolutely love this comment....."You want people who are driving to really know the rules, really know the laws,"......These people are knowingly breaking the "rules" and the "laws" by being in this country ILLEGALLY....This is insane--The illegal immigrants need to have their assets--the car that he/she was driving, cash, etc. confiscated and then given a one way ticket back to their home country. We then need to go after the people that hire them......Seriously--rewarding people that break laws by giving them a drivers license and access to social services--this has to be a joke!!!!

How about we help the immigrants support the families they've left behind so they can have a better place to live, and more food on the table? Adopt a city, church, school, individual, and enrich their lives. If we can make it a better place where they live they wouldn't be coming up here.

Immigration laws need to change, sure enough. Building a wall to keep them out is stupid. Providing health care for illegals is a waste of resources, IMO. Providing illegals with drivers licenses is even more rediculous. The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate and care for its citizens so the US isn't continually bailing them out; if Mexico was so great they wouldn't be coming here in droves illegally. Too bad, all you dairy farmers who employ illegal aliens from whatever countries; it's your own fault for not hiring legal immigrants who want to work in the US, so you get no pity or sympathy from me. I know a lot of out of work legal US citizens who would be happy to help with the milking....

sprout: A death sentence?! Yeah, right.

Go ahead, woodsman. Give us a full report when you return to the United States.

Just wait a few months because the Congressman from Illinois has just introduced a bill to give all Illegal immigrants amnesty. Now I know why the President said that no illegal immigrants would receive health care. They will all be legal soon. Check out this site.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/

"undocumented immigrants"???? What happened to illegal immigrants? When they kill people on the roads, they just run, that's what they do.