Woodmans is wasting no time. They dropped mental health coverage today. Where's the Gazette article on that?

"know I'm gonna feel bad when someone thats 55 with 30 years in but is slowing down a bit gets replaced by a more vibrant 25 year old because they are more productive. Seniority? Oh, I'm sorry.. We appreciate your service but we're gonna have to let you go. Happens all the time."

so the 55 year old has been there 30 years and brings no more value than the 25 year old? In fact, in your argument, it sounds like the 25 year old is more productive. Why should any company pay someone capable of doing less work more money?

why would you want to pay someone else money every month? If you enjoy that i will give you a PO Box to send me money every month and i will represent you, unless someone else has paid me more. How does that sound to you? (To me that sounds like a union)

Again most of today's great companies do not rely on unions, they do not need to those that are the best will survive and those that are not as good at their jobs, but say "the union protects me" will always rather pay a few dollars and work less.

I guess that's what made America so great, all that Just-good-enough work ethic.

Hey Macdaddy, I PAY union dues every month and I LIKE unions! Guess your last sentence isn't true. Go figure.

i don't get all this talk about how no non-union business can be successful and fair to its employees. I guess union leaders in town here have done a excellent job at brain-washing all of you. There are many great companies to work at that are non-union and they take care of their employees because they don't want to lose them to a competitor or spend the money re-training a new person. Any business person will tell you it is much easier to retain great employees than to hire cheaper ones. And it saves money.

The only ones that like unions are the ones in the union cashing those union due checks each month!

Vataloco, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that someone that is loyal to a company for 30 years should just be put out on the street because they can be replaced? That if they have a janitors job because thats all they are any longer capable of it is some sort of welfare? I'm not even gonna discuss any GM issues you have here, but most union contracts have pay levels for the work you do. Therefore a janitor would make far less than a more productive worker. As far as the representitives in state and local government are concerned, you really should pay more attention to the laws that are in debate. Its starting to look like labor is winning again.

"I know I'm gonna feel bad when someone thats 55 with 30 years in but is slowing down a bit gets replaced by a more vibrant 25 year old because they are more productive. Seniority? Oh, I'm sorry.. We appreciate your service but we're gonna have to let you go. Happens all the time."

Some companies today (GM) behave like social service agencies as opposed to building or providing a product. With GM, it's like we hear more about what GM provides its employees as benefits than we do about what they build. Why do you think other companies did not want to buy GM? Becasue they would inherit all of the social services GM provides.

Why should a company pay somebody at GM or another union full maxed out wages just to push a broom in the maintenance department? This is why so many people are fed up with unions especially in state and federal government unions. It becomes difficult to get rid of some of these folks.

This will all be interesting to see what happens over the next five years. I'm sure Phil is just a wonderful guy, but he is also a businessman. Businesses as a whole attract potential employees with competitive wage and benefit packages based on the job market. If I were a Woodman's employee I would be expecting a pay and benefits cut in the near future. I hear so many of them complain about "the union" and they don't understand that THEY are the union. It sounds like they had bad union leadership there and they should have voted them out instead of decertified. I know I'm gonna feel bad when someone thats 55 with 30 years in but is slowing down a bit gets replaced by a more vibrant 25 year old because they are more productive. Seniority? Oh, I'm sorry.. We appreciate your service but we're gonna have to let you go. Happens all the time.

BillyClydePuckett & the rest of the union supporters. I am not alone and am a part of growing group that buy as much American as we can without buying union. We see the problems in our society caused by the unions and agree in principle that unions have outlived their need in our country. Our group is happy that we can support a deserving business such as Woodman's and hope to see more unions fold!

"Its called the free market and it works most of the time. The exception is gvoernment run institutions from our school systems to the the DMV where there is no option or if there is the cost is much higher" or when banks are allowed to create complicated systems that bring down an entire economy.

i worked for a union once, and guess what my department was downsized and i was out of a job because i had less tenure than others, not that i was a worse employee or made more (which i actually made less). Unions just take money and do nothing anymore. FOR THE LAST TIME, UNIONS CAN NOT PROTECT JOBS, TALK TO THE UAW MEMBERS!

Unions were great when work conditions were really bad in the 1920's, but we don't have unsafe working conditions anymore. Unions keep collecting and do nothing with the money. Maybe they think that by collecting a little from everyone they will eventually be able to buy the company and its assets, but then would they want another union coming in and telling them what to do, probably not.

If enough people are postive about the service, selection, price and environment (including the fact that it is non union) at Woodman's it will surivive and prosper. If those same people find better service, selection, price and environment at a grocery store that includes unions and prefer to shop a unionized locations then Woodman's will suffer. Its called the free market and it works most of the time. The exception is gvoernment run institutions from our school systems to the the DMV where there is no option or if there is the cost is much higher. These are areas where unions continue to thrive because competition is not allowed to compete on an even playing field.

Sorry--"are" should have been "our".....I wish this blog had an edit option......

Pubsrus--Regarding your comment about this being the first generation where are kids will have a lower standard of living than the previous generation--that's not what anyone wants, that's just reality. This country has become fat and lazy. There is an overwhelming sense of "entitlement" that has seemed to grow with the latest generations. Hard work and starting at the bottom and working your way up have been used as punch lines for years now.....This massive economic crisis is bringing everyone back to reality.......

It's still all about cause and effect. Industrial revolution = factories = large labor force = unfair labor practices = unions = outsourcing for higher profits.
You're absolutely right. This is definitely because the rich want to be richer. I agree, it's a load of crap. Until those other countries develop their own laws, though, it's going to continue to be a load of crap. I'm not waiting for any profits to "trickle down" to me, and I wouldn't accept them, either. I don't take blood money.
By the way, I'm a registered democrat, not a republican...

I don't normally quote myself, but...
"The owners of these factories tried to make their labor force work the exact same as their industrial revolutionized machines. They pushed people to their limits, forcing them to work long hours in terrible conditions, all at the same time giving them little pay. Of course, the laborers did not like this at all. As people realized safety and strength in numbers, they began to band together to form what they would eventually call a union."
I will dissect it.
The first people who set up factories in the United States were mostly also the people who already had enough money to invest in that hunk of (usually) steel. These people came upon their money one way or another, and sure as the sky is blue, they liked their money. Well, most people in the world like their money, rich or poor. The thing is, machines are usually fairly reliable. They're also fast. Lightning fast when you compare to making something without a machine at all, in most cases. People, however proficient they may be, are (obviously) not machines. The fat cats either didn't realize this, or didn't care... at first. So, these corporate fat cats tried to squeeze every last ounce of labor they could out of their workers, while at the same time tried to pay them as little as they could get away with. Before hardened labor laws and unions, they could get away with A LOT! You think they're bad now?
Entrepreneur: You don't make enough to afford a place to live?
Worker: No, I need you to pay me more.
Entrepreneur: Nonsense! Just live at one of the factory houses!
Worker: That's not what I asked for, but I need to keep food on my family's plate...
So, such a nice boss to offer a new place to live, right? Wrong. The business got involved with their workers lives, seeing as how they were living off of the fat cat's land and all. Households were subject to random searches and inspections which could occur at any time. The employer did still take a portion of the worker's paycheck as rent money. The conditions were often worse than other homes off of the factory's land. The land owner would impose his own laws and set of rules for tenants living on his land. The list goes on... bottom line, it was far less than desirable, but in many cases still necessary in order to continue to make a living.
Can anyone really be reasonably surprised at all that workers started to form unions? If you are alive today and reading this, I don't think so.
So what does that have to do with today, though? That was, like, the dark ages, wasn't it? (Mid to late 1800s, not the dark ages... I just wanted to get out of character.) The laws today are here because of what happened yesterday. Why do we have child labor laws today? Why is there a law regarding over time pay? What about benefits that employers have to provide?

Thekai- You just don't get it do you? You say its ALL the unions fault that manufacturers outsource? Lets say that the workers at a factory are NON UNION, and lets say they are making HALF of what a union worker would make, $9/hr for example. Well, I don't know of many factory workers in China that even make $9 A DAY! So tell me again how this is the unions fault and not all about CORPORATE GREED? These companies made profits manufacturing here for years, and could still make profits manufacturing here. But thats just not good enough for them, they just gotta have more for their salaries and bonuses, and to hell with their workers, and to hell with the middle class! Aren't Reaganomics great? Oh but have faith Thekai, I'm sure the wealth will "Trickle Down" to you someday.

I would like to point out that it was this general time last year when said economists told us that we've been in a recession for over a year already.... some of the same economists who previously said, "Oh no, we're not in a recession."

Keep preaching to the republican choir! Hell I am sure for everything we do or everything we produce there is another country that will do it cheaper. Is that everyones answer, drive down wages and reduce our standard of living? Economists have said this is the first time in our history that our children will not achieve the same standard of living as their parents. Is this what you want? Because you sure as hell post like you do.

crazy union drunk drivers

Your so right - unions are great! - look at this and tell me she shouldnt be fired immediately. Nope - the unions have lost their way & outlived their time.

http://www.wisn.com/news/21944773/detail...

good luck to all the woodmans employees ,no matter whether they are union or not. I have been a union tradesman for the last 10 years, and was non-union for 11 years. I have never been layed of from work. There is good and bad to both union and non union, my personal choice is to stay union. I would never try to sway a persons opinion on the union. The one opinion on protecting the weak is bull. If your a piece of crap worker you get layed off in the trades either way!

Unions have provided our family with a good living for over 50 years. Maybe things are different now~but~its a slippery slope I don't want to go down. All the non union businesses have had to give better wages etc because of the union presence. Never forget the people who went before us~who ensured good wages & good benefits.

shorty,
Are you implying that Hispanic workers are illegal immigrants? Or maybe you are simply implying that the Hispanic workers at Stoughton Trailers are illegal immigrants. Or MAYBE you're making the generalization that minority groups receive less pay than white males, on average. I'm not understanding it as the latter, though. It sounds like you're making a racist comment about Hispanic workers, and I take offense to that.

pubsrus,
Unions are the reason for outsourcing, not the solution to it :-p.
Let's take a very brief look and history review of how unions got started.
Back in the days of the industrial revolution, mid to late 19th century, factories were popping up all over technologically advanced countries in Europe and the United States.
Before the day of factories, most goods were made one by one, by hand or hand operated machines. There was a hierarchy. You start out as an apprentice and work your way up to master. Because of this long and slow process, mass employment did not exist. When the industrial revolution took hold, the old process of course went out the window. There were no real laws regarding labor though, so factories were hiring anyone with two thumbs and at least four other fingers. This included all people, but women and children usually took the jobs that required less skill.
The owners of these factories tried to make their labor force work the exact same as their industrial revolutionized machines. They pushed people to their limits, forcing them to work long hours in terrible conditions, all at the same time giving them little pay. Of course, the laborers did not like this at all. As people realized safety and strength in numbers, they began to band together to form what they would eventually call a union. These unions would elect leaders who would be in charge of bargaining with the employer. If the union did not get the bennies they wanted, everyone would go on strike.
In the grand scheme of things, unions were a great evolution the work force made. Without unions in the past, we would still have child labor today. We would still be working for peanuts today. The rust belt would be competing well with a global market. The problem we have, is that the industrial revolution did not take place at the same time everywhere in the world. We have under-developed countries TODAY who are just now going through their own industrial revolution. They do not have the same labor laws we have, and they don't have such complicated or powerful unions.
Look from the manufacturers view point. Produce 100x an hour, at a labor fee of $5,000.00 for that hour, or produce 150x an hour, at a labor fee of $200.00 for that hour. Do we need a rocket scientist to tell us which option is more lucrative to the common entrepreneur? The answer is obvious. Outsource more jobs, make more money.
Thus, I conclude, unions are the cause of outsourced jobs, not the solution.
And really.... we will turn into China? China is one of those countries with a late industrial revolution. While most manufacturers can still make more money in India and Pakistan than China, it's still most likely a better fiscal labor market than the United States, and henceforth will receive more job openings for factory type of work. Furthermore, if we did become China, would that mean we get most of our money back?

THANK GOODNESS! I CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY ANYTHING MORE FOR GROCERIES! YEA WOODMANS, THANK YOU!

beefer - I can count 7 people I know that started there in the 80's and are still there. I admire your perception of your wife's work ethic...

Beeferer,

Flash forward 19-29 years, what has changed? Your memory of the exact number of days she worked is truly impressive. So she worked for 89 days and not 88? wow, what was the reason she was let go? You're not still holding a grudge after two decades are you?

My wife worked at Woodmans for 89 days. Perfect employee- always on time, excelled at her job and was learning the ropes. Then on the last day before getting into the union she was let go along with all the other 89 day people. That was back in the 80's. Hmmm...

shorty64, for every person like you that stops shopping at a store because they don't have union, there are at least 3 of us that will start shopping there because the union left. So tell me which union grocery store are you going to go to?

There are always two sides to the debate of organized labor. Yes, The Union also can become complacent and no longer represent the workers. Judging from the couple of people I have spoke with at Woodman's this was the general feeling concerning the UCFW.
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Concerning the UAW, They were happy taking our dues but when the big fights arose only a few of our members took the fight back to both the UAW and Lear to earn what was promised. Cola, retirement and the list goes on. Where was our Committee? I recall Drew Schoening and Dale Townsend doing the heavy lifting in Madison. Where was our beloved UAW. We have ourselves to blame in the end for voting these unsavory and uneducated people into office. High School politics plain and simple unfortunately a High School Diploma or Ged was not a prerequisite for employment.
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Minan, although we would have never made the wages that we made at Lear without the Union it was our duty and responsibility to earn those wages. I recall fondly being crapped on by our Union as I will never subscribe to the "good old boy" club and uphold my family values as opposed to who I have to drink or sleep with to be annointed. I recall Welders that went home early on the clock to shower only returning to punch out in their slippers. Rampant drinking, drugs and other debauchery that shamed me into admitting I worked there for 16 years. We certainly seemed to have enough bad Union members that were undeniably protected long past what a non-union shop would have tolerated. Lord knows I am not without fault. I could have been a better worker but anyone can become disillusioned/indifferent over time.
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With that said our experience is much different from Woodman's and the UCFW in respect to their employees. Remember our Portable Pension Plan fiasco? Ask any indentured Woodman's employee about their ESOT. It would seem to me that Mr. Woodman makes a very clear long term commitment to his loyal employees. That is more than I can say for most Fortune Blah Blah companies.
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Read the news? Woodman's litigated WalMart on several fronts and won. The most concerning was selling below cost to drive out competition. Woodman's will always get my business and I wish they would expand into merchandising. We would have more great jobs from a local employer who cares.
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In closing good paying jobs are worth fighting for and often forgotten, working hard for! You do not necessarily need a Union to reach a harmonious one. :O)

Minan - most likely that it was differences in employers, not the union. I am sure it is better to work at Target then Big Lots and union has nothing to do with it. BTW, Janesville people are still welding at Stoughton Trailers. How many are still welding at Lear?

artxette,

There are market clearing rates for every job. Phill cannot cut wages and benefits without impunity. Woodman needs to differentiate his products from others. his most important asset are his people. People make the difference. Whole foods in madison or milwaukee are considerably more expensive than Woodmans or any other janesville grocery. People will pay more for better product and service. This is not a complicated business. Guess what no union there either and employees probably earn as much or more than Woodmans employees.

How can Whole Foods do this? Its all part of their value proposition. You pay more but receive a better value. (whether this value is perceived or real-its irrelevant-consumers vote with their wallets)

Thumbs up for Woodmans employees. Love the store!!Wish I could decertify my union at work. 43 bucks a month and they take the money and push Doyle, Kerry, Barry Hussein Obama , and any other american hating politician down our throats. To He!! with the unions!

Well, if Phil does end up cutting wages and benefits I hope he puts the extra money he'll make into making more of those sweet commercials...I haven't seen one for a while. C'mon Phil, it's the holidays, lets pump out some commercials.

A victory for America! Unions have outlived their need. Now I can start shopping at Woodman again!

Congrats to Woodman's employees! Woodman's has been and will continue to be a good place to work. Those employees who saw their wages involuntarily confiscated and used for union largesse have just received a pay increase!

Let the scare tactics and doom and gloomers post! Support you local Woodman's the've just become more competitive!

pubsrus - so you are saying busting unions are the reason we don't manufacture anything anymore? We don't manufacture anything anymore because of our spending habits. We are locked in a materialistic society that is bent on trying to have the most of anything whether we need it or not. For those who live like that, they buy only "cheap" items which in turn had to be shipped out to places that will make it cheap. Unions couldn't stop it, and most of their members are just as guilty of buying as much of cheap crap that they could. Nobody saves for something nice anymore. They want it now, and the only way to get it is to offer it cheap. It is a complete circle.

any xmas bonuses woodmans gives out is the employees own profit sharing. so.. basically its their own money to be taxed an phil gets a write off.

No differenc between woodman's and walmart now. As a retired union memeber I hope everybody gets there wish and unions go by way of the dinosaur. Those of us who have had the experience of good jobs and benefits will be dead and gone when the proverbial chit hits the fan. Hell, we don't manufacture anything anymore. It used to be that if you didn't go to college you could get a job at a factory and make a decent wage and provide for your family. Not everyone went to college then and not everyone does now. The biggest difference now is there are no jobs for those who don't attend college and very few for those who do. So keep decertifying unions, keep sending jobs out of this country, and in less than 50 years we will be the old "China" or at lease teeter on becoming a third world country. We certainly aren't a soverign country anymore we have whored to any country that wants to buy any part of us. I look forward to the responses.

It's my experience that union shops have the most unhappy people. Those that are happy are happy in spite of the union and not because of it.

I think it's because once they outsource their career management to union hacks, they feel powerless and all they can do is sit and whine about management all day. Plus, the union has a vested interest in constantly building up resentment against management, thus justifying their existence (we might be bad but management is worse.)

my wife and i both work for unions and have talked to people that work at woodmans and they say the union doesnt really do any thing for them.iguess i dont really blame them for getting rid of the union.what are you paying union dues for anyway.

I was in a union back in the mid 80's that was decertified. A year later the company ended the health insurance. Good people left, and they went out of business. It was a good company until the boss retired and his greedy kid took over.

fightingsquirrels - Just ask the Lear and LSI folks how well the union worked out for them...

Fightinsquirrels. . .FYI. . .only the first 5 of the 12 Woodman's stores were union. The other 7 stores and the corporate office were never under a union and wages and benefits were still excellent. Also, Phil Woodman is not greedy. He is very generous. I do not know many businesses that were giving out extra Christmas bonuses this year, but Woodman's did. Woodman's is an excellent place to work and I believe will to continue to be with or without a union.

without any union to protect the workers, he can do whatever he wants to, we will soon see.

And whatever happened with that threat when Mike Sheridan said he would "put the hurt on Woodman's?" I don't recall him retracting that statement or did he?

fightinsquirrels: Woodman will cut wages? Why will he do that if the economy is strong? Has he done that before so you know he'll do it again?

in a couple years our economy will be strong. of course phil woodman will be doing very, very well because he will cut wages and nobody can do a thing about it. yeah, congrats.

Congratulations to Woodman's and the employees for rejecting the union bullies and threats from Mike Sheridan. Your actions herald a new era in Janesville. Our community should now be capable of attracting progressive business.