stoutt66: Maybe it has something to do with property taxes.

skinnypuppy: I respect what you wrote, but I still think domino might want to look into a new career ... she/he seems a victim of burnout already (no matter what the cause may be). Sooner or later, burnout affects one's ability to be in top form.

First off let me say that I am not a teacher, nor would I ever want that job in a million years. I have many friends who do this thankless job day in and day out. There may be people out there who don't have insurance and don't have this or that but why take it out on teachers? Because they want a 4% raise and you didn't get one? Should we all suffer? Maybe if teachers can get a raise, they can afford to buy the products that give millions of people their jobs? Isn't okay to have someone get something? Why do the banks get billions of dollars of bailout money yet a teacher makes a couple of bucks and the world gets mad?

Of course I don't advocate giving ALL of the surplus to the teachers. But from what I've been told, the Board and Teacher offers differ by about $100,000. So let the Board keep 95% of the money for "fiscal responsibility" and use 5% to compensate the teachers. Does that seem excessive to you?

rocky;
Fall Break - see link to jvl school calendar
http://www.janesville.k12.wi.us/AboutUs/...

work hours - ok I'll take you for your word that " I'd bet that most teachers work way MORE than 50 hours per week"

Insurance - I wrote that incorrectly, it should have been:
union empl A - 3.5% raise with whatever % of the raise going to health care as a TAX FREE benefit
Non union empl B - 3.5% raise on Base Pay - pays taxes on the entire raise then purchases health insurance. Leaving them with LESS take home pay in the end.
Sorry for the confusion
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"3.5% to taxpayers" part. The district has already set the levy and collected the funds. Giving the teachers a freeze or a 3.5% raise makes no difference on your taxes whatsoever. All that happens is that the district keeps the difference for other projects.... - Thats called fiscal resposibility. Are you actually suggesting they take ALL the money & use it to pay teachers? then several things would happen: 1.no maintenance or improvements - leading to referendums & MORE tax money to fix or repair. 2. The teachers wouldnt have anything to complain about with pay but I'd bet the "work conditions" certainly would be brought up like parking in the field or cold classrooms, or buildings falling apart... on & on.
Think of it like this: you have a son/daughter that wants an allowance for chores. Take out the emotions both neg & positive of wanting to "teach them" about hard work or just giving them money & consider how much of your check should go to them weekly. Would you give them all that was left after your monthly bills or would you pay what you think is fair for a particular task & maybe save some of your check so you could do home improvements, buy a new tv, take a vacation. Not a perfect comparison I know but I think you get the point.

3 scenarios to consider -
1. they take the 2 million "surplus" and give it back to the taxpayers - after all its OUR money
2. They divide up the 2 million & dispurse equally among all the teachers as a "bonus"
3. They save it & do this for say 10 years & actually self fund all - or a portion of - the additions, remodels etc. they NEED - without having to go tax payers with a referendum.

Each of these may seem ridiculous or brilliant - depending upon who is looking at them & from what point of view. but in the end it all comes down to this: Its about Fiscal Responsibility and trying to balance the tides.

I don't think domino sounds frustrated with teaching; I think he sounds frustrated with being berated for wanting decent compensation and acknowledgement for the hard work he does. While most of us may not get a lot of "kudos" on our jobs, I never see anything in these blogs that comes NEAR the anger, hostility, and disrespect shown towards teachers - not towards cops, doctors, nurses, mechanics, etc. (GM workers take a close second, however). 99% of us have NO CLUE the toll these ungrateful and nasty comments would have on us - those of us who do go above and beyond. I'd rather hear nothing than a bunch of trash. I am guessing the teachers of your children are teaching them something we should all practice (and clearly are not): If we don't have something NICE to say, then don't say anything. Hopefully our children will grow up knowing how to have a more open-minded perspective, a live and let live philosphy, and knowledge of how to communicate more respectfully than we are doing here. Teachers, good luck this year overcoming these obstacles of a poor economy, angry communities, and being the scapegoat for many of the ills of society. Just remember, it's only the same 50-75 disgruntled people complaining on these blogs. Thank you for what you do because as most people have cited on here, we couldn't or wouldn't do what you do.

Tiredofhearingit wrote: think what was meant was yes its a 10 month calendar but you do get over a month off thru the school year. - 1 day for fall break - (the rest of the world wants to know what this is by the way!) - 12 days for Christmas, 10 days for Spring Break. I might have missed a couple but this alone nets 23 days. If you count a standard month as having 4 weeks x 5 days = 20 days, so yes, you do only work 9 months.

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My kids have been in school for many years around here. I've never heard of "fall break". Christmas is between 7-10 days off, not the 12 you state. Spring break has been usually 5 days off, not 10. Kids generally go Sept. 1 - June 11 or so, but teachers tack on a week or two before and days after as well. So I figure they work about 10 months. I checked it out - those "break" days for teachers are unpaid. Their contract is based on 190 days of work. Contracted hours are, of course, less than a lot of people, but I think we all know that most teachers put in tons of hours outside the contracted times.

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using your nurse analogy: are you saying then that teachers work 2,000 hrs a year in those 9 months? using 4.3 weeks in a month a typical worker working 40/week = 172 ; using your numbers teachers would work 51.68/week - or 10.34 per day (assuming we pay you for lunch hr) that means you should be there from 7:30AM til approx 5:50pm - is that what the contract says. I think you can see this is Not apples for Apples.

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As I said before - I'd bet that most teachers work way MORE than 50 hours per week. Most definitely apples to apples

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Benefits: this is typical in union enviroments - Base Pay + Benefits = contract amount. Your right we dont care how its applied. Put it all on your check for all I care, but then you get less to your benefits, which if you choose to self pay into your insurance - go ahead. 3.5% is 3.5% to a taxpayer no matter how you look at it. You also have to consider the non union employee that gets the "same" 3.5% raise yet their insurance might go up 4% - they actually loose money.

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OK - someone already corrted the math problem you had there, so I'll concentrate on the "3.5% to taxpayers" part. The district has already set the levy and collected the funds. Giving the teachers a freeze or a 3.5% raise makes no difference on your taxes whatsoever. All that happens is that the district keeps the difference for other projects - like a new parking lot at Milton HS, or other projects. Milton had over $2 million in SURPLUS last year - they banked half of it and spent the rest - then raise taxes 10% and whine about nothing being left in their pockes. They claim state aid was reduced, but the state aid actually increased - it was a smaller increase than expected, but still an increase. Check the books on the districts "fund 10" balance - you'll see that Milton has the money to pay the teachers.

Domino: Ever thought about switching careers? You sound very frustrated with teaching.

your all cry babies give it a break, i tell yea one thing i wouldnt want there job the little monsters

tiredofhearingit,
Sorry but I have to correct your math here. You said. "You also have to consider the non union employee that gets the "same" 3.5% raise yet their insurance might go up 4% - they actually loose money." The only way this can happen, that they would actually lose money, is if they were paying the same for insurance as what their salary was.

domino"All of these complainers make me sick"

sorry please clarify complainers- teachers or bloggers

Sometimes I put in 50 hours a week and dont get paid at all!!!!! Stop whining. You do this extra work to be a good teacher and that is good. As we have said before you HAVE ajob so be happy if not quit!

All of these complainers make me sick. I put in eighty hours of time for free that I could have spent with my family setting up my room for the kids I teach. I will personally challenge anyone out there to set up an elementary classroom the way mine is and get everything I get done in an 80 hour week! Bring it on. And yes, I also spent almost 300 dollars in materials this year out of pocket to get my room ready. During the school year I work 11 hour days at least four days a week and many more hours during progress report time. I have had many parents who can hardly make it through a single field trip without complaining. And, if I do end up being sick, it takes me about three hours to get my room ready for a substitute teacher. When the district requires us to go to a conference, it also takes three hours to prepare and you come back behind. Many of the graduate courses I have taken cost 800 dollars a piece without reimbursement. When the economy was booming, where were our raises? Now that the economy is bad, have the teachers feel guilty for wanting a raise? I also drive American made carseven though I don't get the GM discount. Many teachers drive them because they need their cars to last 200,000 miles!

so 30k STARTING for 9 months of work is pretty good I say. last time I looked at calandar school gets out june 7th ish and goes back sept 2nd ish. is my math wrong but that is 3 months. Okay 2 1/2 for you go about a week before and stay a week later.Then all those xmas off, spring break off, off for this and that. Dont forget you go back for ONE week and already have labor day off.

I certainly didnt get a raise this year or last. the economy sucks so I lost $15,000 of my pay last year and yes I have to work ALL year long and get 2 weeks off for vacation.
The paid vacation I am talking about is the same as the other person was referring to. off for this closed for this, 1 week for that, 2 weeks for this and off the whole summer if you want.

rocky; I think what was meant was yes its a 10 month calendar but you do get over a month off thru the school year. - 1 day for fall break - (the rest of the world wants to know what this is by the way!) - 12 days for Christmas, 10 days for Spring Break. I might have missed a couple but this alone nets 23 days. If you count a standard month as having 4 weeks x 5 days = 20 days, so yes, you do only work 9 months.

using your nurse analogy: are you saying then that teachers work 2,000 hrs a year in those 9 months? using 4.3 weeks in a month a typical worker working 40/week = 172 ; using your numbers teachers would work 51.68/week - or 10.34 per day (assuming we pay you for lunch hr) that means you should be there from 7:30AM til approx 5:50pm - is that what the contract says. I think you can see this is Not apples for Apples.

Benefits: this is typical in union enviroments - Base Pay + Benefits = contract amount. Your right we dont care how its applied. Put it all on your check for all I care, but then you get less to your benefits, which if you choose to self pay into your insurance - go ahead. 3.5% is 3.5% to a taxpayer no matter how you look at it. You also have to consider the non union employee that gets the "same" 3.5% raise yet their insurance might go up 4% - they actually loose money.

Bosslady - are you on the school board? The teacher I talked to didn't even know the result of the vote yet, although according to her, the outcome was a slam-dunk.

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Here is what I have heard was the situation. The Board refused to accept the "no" that the teacher's negotiating team gave them regarding this offer and insisted on a general membership vote as a requirement to continue mediation. The vote was advisory and not binding.

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The proposal was apparently very one-sided from the board. It included: (1) Freezing benefit amounts paid to long term employees who retire with some benefits for a few years. (2) Giving the Board complete control over the choice of insurance carries and plans and the freedom to change with 60 days notice once every 2 contracts. Teachers also would have agreed to not claim all savings from such changes, as they are entitles to by law. (3) Increased restrictions on the use of sick days. (4) A pay increase in the first year subsidized solely by the insurance change, and a $50-$65 pay increase in the second year.

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Now - that is just a hearsay summary, so don't necessarily take it as gospel, but it doesn't sound like an attractive offer to me. Where is the "give" in the Board's "give and take"? Perhaps the Gazette can get a copy of the offer and publish it. I'd also like to see the Teacher's offer, instead of just rushing to judgment that the teachers are being the bad guys here.

stoutt66 – Teachers are not working for “free” when they student teach, they are working for credits to complete their degree. Four months is a short period of time compared to the 12 month internships (non-paid) required for some degrees that do not pay much more than what teachers make upon graduation. Those same professions also need to keep up on continuing education credits (at their own expense, without having summers off) to maintain certification.

stout66; I think you should direct your anger at your guidance counselor for suggesting that particular career-not us tax payers that have had it with the whining - (assuming of course you are a teacher.)A little bitter are we?

Hannah

Your lack of understanding is as great as your lack of a spellchecker. Teachers generally work 10, not 9, months per year, get no paid vacations, and generally put in the same number of hours or more than most other professionals of similar education and experience. Do you think nurses who only work 4 (10 -hour) days per week should be paid only 80% of the salary of someone working 5-8's?

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Also - teachers pay for their own insurance, in essence, because the costing procedure pools salary and benefits. So when you see teachers getting a 3.5% raise, that includes the cost of insurance increases. In the past this has meant teachers have forgone any increase in salary to keep their insurance. Any "savings" from changing insurance plans would, by law, go back to teachers in salary. What does it matter to anyone else if that is how they choose to spend their money?

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I've got a call out to a milton teacher friend to see what is up with the vote and will comment later.

yes whine to those who dont make NEAR $30 k a year and only work 9 months out of the year and if you do work more than 9 you also get paid to do so. whine to those w/o ins coverage or pension or sick days or holidays off and paid vacations threwout the year. I dont think you have anything to complain about sorry. yes your job may be difficult but so are other jobs out there.

I'd like to see them, whine to the 46 million fellow Americans who have absolutely no health care insurance despite the majority of them holding jobs.

Ahh, and the haters come out to play. If you think that teachers have it so easy, go back to school for 5 years get your degree. Then spend 4 months working for free as a student teacher. Get your first job for 30k a year and spend the rest of your life dealing with bad parents and going back to school every summer to further your education.

I have just learned that the Milton Teachers Union has rejected yet another offer to settle their contract. I believe this was due to the fact that the union refused to budge on health care concessions. Teachers have the "Cadillac" of policies, while support staff and administration were forced to choose bewteen Mercy & Dean. I would like to see a teacher whine to a retired GM worker, who just lost his/her vision & dental insurance in July after giving 25+ years. I especially love the fact that alot of the teachers who want the benefits of a union, which was concieved in the United States, drive foreign vehicles. Thier refusual to budge on any issue shows a complete lack of professionalism.

iworkfromhome - I'm not sure I understand your comment...can you elaborate?

The baby sitters are already over paid !

rocky that is why you are not a teacher, nor are you paid as one. There is definite room for improvement.

I'm assuming that all of you who are calling for "no raises" are aware that the district already gave administration 4+% salary increases, and increased their overall budget by that same 4%. I'm also assuming that all of you were out there clamoring for larger raises for teachers in those years where the private sector was making 4-7% per year in salary increases and teachers were making 1 - 3%, and that you'll be supporting similar increases in the future when the economy improves.

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The education students receive in Milton is second to none in this area. I'd challenge any one of you complainers to go motivate and teach a classroom full of teenagers any day. I think teachers earn every penny. No way would I ever try to corral 25 3rd graders and keep their attention for several hours per day.

3.8 in this economy is pretty darn good. Maybe the MEA's problem is that they know there was money leftover last year. LOTS of money! Over a million dollars for a second year in a row! As long as the district leaves that kind of money lying around, why not line their pockets!

ww

Teacher's should not get raises just because it should be performance based.

"... arbitrators are no longer instructed to give greatest weight to local economic conditions and revenue caps in deciding contract cases." What is "greatest weight" given to with this change? It's disappointing that "local economic conditions" no longer seems to be of great concern.

This goes for Janesville too! Are these teachers unaware of the current economy? I've been at the same job for 6 years and still make the same! I am however greatful I have a job, maybe some of the unemployed need to apply for Milton teaching jobs.

What happens if we due away with the Union?