byw- did you know owners husband was a DA or lawyer of some kind. what might he do with this info STORED on hard drive!!???

This technology reminds me of the issue with cookies on computers. (No, "cookies" are not the rant of conspiracy theorists.) Cookies are small files a web site stores on your computer that typically store things like your username. This Gazette site uses them. The problem is that although they are supposedly anonymous, the cookies on your computer can often be tied to you personally after you enter personal information on another web site. Then it's easy for advertisers and others to know who you are and see all the web sites you've visited that contain their cookies.
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One of the biggest advertisers like this is called Doubleclick, a company now owned by Google. Even this Gazette web page puts Doubleclick cookies on your computer. (Check your web browser for proof.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DoubleClick...
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The point is that once data is collected, it can be used for more purposes than the reason it was originally gathered. I have no problem with Quotes trying to increase security, but I do have a problem with them collecting, storing, and exploiting my personal data. That's why I will never let them photograph me and my ID. But as Ms. Carpenter said in the article, I guess she ultimately doesn't want me as a patron anyway.

JOEFLINT...I was being a "bit" sarcastic but at the same time meant what I said. You seem to be missing out on a calling.....and you actually put thought behind what you write. I enjoyed your point of view, although I try to just avoid situations that bother me, and let those who continue to do those things be. A person will never learn unless they make a mistake. All the wisdom in the world won't deter someone from doing something if they are determined to do so, even with all of the danger evident. Hope you enjoyed your beer. I haven't had one in quite some time. And hopefully it was at one of the "good time" bars...not one of these new age ones. Cheers.

Now having wrote all that :) I applaud Quotes for trying to get a handle on their situation and I have no major problem with them, as a private entity, collecting whatever data they want to collect... since their number of customers is about the same it would seem that many people are okay with relinquishing their data -- that too is their right. (I worry that people are a little too at ease in doing so, though.)
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My issue begins and ends with the nebulous sharing of personal data between Quotes and the government (in this case, JPD). At the least, it seems the bar is acting as an informant. What stops the police from reading an entire night's list of patrons when they are just looking for a single "person of interest"?
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localboy - it has indeed been a great discussion.
optimism - I can't tell just how sarcastic (or not) you were being... my experience, such as it is, lies in physics and related fields; though, I have an obvious interest in history and Constitutional law. Btw, I have no idea who "thekid" is.
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OK... I'm off to the bar for a drink... (really).

shagcarpet- what do yuo expect a bunch of drunk people to do??? behaive!!???

localboy- what will they get off lic- bday, lic #. just need yuor soc left for a fake credit card. they know where you live by the dl #- so just go pick in your trash for a bill- medical whatever with soc on it. and away we go- no thanks their is enough risk of this already.

zoom- yeah not shared or sold- just STOLLEN

I see a lot of comments about data mining. While I certainly would not want my personal information given out to anyone, it really would not matter if I did not make it out of the bar alive. At this bar I would be more concerned about my immediate safety, i.e. making it through the night, than what happened to my personal information later.

i surely dont have any kind of record and wouldnt cause aany problems- but think i wont go there after 9 pm anymore!!

i have a problem with this- what if one OF YOUR undesirable employees takes off with all that info!!????????

joeflint and professor make some very good valid points. Maybe a little to the extreme one way, but one could say that I am also a little to the extreme the other way.

JOEFLINT....here's an idea....write yourself in on the ballet on November 4th. Your expertise are being wasted on this silly little Gazette blog.....you are so needed up on the hill.

Indeed, correlation is not causation; although that statement is plainly true, it does not change the FACT that data mining is already, today, in the here and now in widespread use for exactly the purpose that I sketched. Employers already use these types of databases to decide whether or not to hire or fire based not on qalifications or performance but what you do outside of work on your own free time. Insurance companies perform these types of background checks and set rates based on these types of databases. Today. Now. Already.
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The government has openly expressed an interest in collecting exactly this type of information as well: credit card purchases, travel destinations, etc.: "Total Information Awareness".
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The government has spent just shy of a trillion dollars since 9/11, some it for good, some of it for dubious reasons. That is nearly twice all of the money that has ever been spent on NASA in its 50-year existence. The government will spend $40 billion in FY09 to ask me to take my shoes off every time I am at an airport.
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I want to live in a free and open society, with a reasonable expectation to privacy. I do not want the government or a tavern to know, care, or remember when I last visisted. In the society that I envision and to which I hope we aspire, one is still able to live secure in the knoweledge that he has nothing to hide and hence nothing about which to worry.
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On the other hand, the society that others advocate (whether explicitly or implicitly) with the "I have nothing to hide" attitude does NOT allow me the freedom to live with the rights that I currently enjoy. The "I have nothing to hide" argument would allow the government to collect information on my whereabouts or habits even if I am not party to or witness of a crime.
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This fallacious belief that bad things can never happen because this is the U S A would be utterly abhorrent to the founding fathers. The reason they wrote broad freedoms for the populace and such restrictions on the government is precisely because of abuses of power with which they were intimately familiar and willing to sacrifice their lives to resist. They feared deeply that this day would come and that is particularly evident in the writings of Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Adams as well as later luminaries such as Clay and Brandeis.
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To believe that abuses could not or are not occuring today or that abuses could not possibly happen to someone right here in Janesville is so utterly beyond rediculous as to betray what makes citizenship so very special in this country.
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Ultimately the difference is this: there are those who would be willing to give away my freedoms; not only do I not accept that, I utterly reject that. I want all of us to remain free and unencumbered by the government to a reasonable and rationale degree. This is quickly becoming no longer the case, apparently at the majority's insistence or acquiesence.

Bonus Answer - the machine doesn't record if you purchased a alcoholic beverage or not. Correlation is not causation.

localboy-
I don't think anyone is arguing why the device is needed. The distinction is between the need to increase safety vs. the desire to record personal data for marketing, law enforcement, or who knows what else.

In regards to social deviancy, that is not a new phenomenon no matter how much one wishes it to be so. That is why the US Cavalry had the stockade. That is why criminals were hung, or tarred and feathered, or jailed. I cannot find the reference off-hand but there are old newspaper clippings and indeed a book published in 1879 called "The History of Rock County" that already details several murders early in the city's history. (One can download the entire book from Google Books.) I recall reading with some shock a story in the Gazette from around 1885 of a woman near Shopiere who was cheating on her husband with a hired hand; the husband found out and killed both of them. The Old Testament is full of stories of betrayal and murderous deeds. These behaviors are not new to the human condition. The forefathers most certainly did indeed have in mind rapists, thieves, pedophiles, burglars, liars, underage drinkers or drunken amatuer boxers. (OK, not underage drinkers because there was no drinking age.) What do you think pirates did with all of their free time? All kidding aside, check out the Federalist and the Anti-Federalist papers as well as other of the founder's writings for their thoughts on criminals and when they should be tried and why we have a system that is, yes, completely skewed to favor innocence of a guilty man over the condemnation of an innocent one.

What is so incriminating?
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Suppose we there was someone, let's say Paul, had a liver transplant some years ago -- not due to alcohol abuse. Nevertheless Paul generally should stay away from alcohol and in fact he does.
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Paul decides to join a few co-workers for Larry's retirement party at Quotes Bar. To gain admittance to Quotes to join his co-workers, he must have his ID scanned.
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Suppose the owner of Quotes decides later on that it would be in his financial interest to sell the database of previous patrons. The data is purchased and eventually resold to Paul's insurance company. A computer at the insurance company makes a match between "tavern", "history of liver disease", and Paul. Consequently, Paul's rates are increased on his next statement.
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This may sound far-fetched but this type of data mining and correlation of customer (or employee) habits has become quite mainstream. To me, irregardless of Constitutional issues regarding the police, this is removing my right to a reasonable expectation of privacy in my dealings and my affairs.
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Someone said it quite succintly below: 'I have nothing to hide but I don't send all of my mail as postcards.'
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Bonus question: did Paul have an alcoholic beverage?

joeflint - was is so incriminating about having a drink at Quotes? If you are doing nothing illegal, what is the harm?

Again, for you legal eagles out there, at the time our constitution was written, there was not a need to have to go through so much scrutiny to identify ones self. Your word was as good as legal tender. I am sure when our fore fathers were crafting this great document, they didn't have in mind rapists, thieves, pedophiles, burglars, liars, underage drinkers or drunken amatuer boxers. These are the reasons that Quotes (any business has these same persons probably on a daily basis)determined the reason for this technology. I am sure it is a bonus that it can also be used for marketing purposes, i.e. age appropriate music hiring, age appropriate specials or such. The surge in these social deviants is what has driven the need for abnormal means of security measures. Most of you should be discussing the root cause for a business to have such a need for this type of technology, not if your rights (which have been reduced when you decide you want to go there for a drink/food)are being violated, or big brother is watching.

It is correct that Quotes, as a private entity / not government, can legally collect, store, and probably sell the data. There are very few data privacy laws in the United States.

Believe it or not, you cannot be compelled to identify yourself or provide identification to an officer -- but this database apparently does just that! The quaint notion of not incriminating oneself still exists though apparently that notion is lost on a great many in this day and age.
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"Absent any basis for suspecting appellant of misconduct, the balance between the public interest in crime prevention and appellant's right to personal security and privacy tilts in favor of freedom from police interference." - Brown v. Texas
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The protection guaranteed by the Fourth and Fifth Amendments are broad in scope. The framers of the Constitution sought "to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, and their sensations." It is for this reason that they established, as against the government, the right to be let alone as "the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men. To protect that right, every unjustifiable intrusion by the government upon the privacy of the individual, whatever the means employed, must be deemed a violation of the Fourth Amendment. And the use, as evidence in a criminal proceeding, of facts ascertained by such intrusion must be deemed a violation of the Fifth." - Brandeis dissent to Olmstead v. United States.
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"For one thing, electronic surveillance is almost inherently indiscriminate, so that compliance with the requirement of particularity in the Fourth Amendment would be difficult..." - Lopez v. United States.

Recommended reading: "It Can't Happen Here" (1935) by Sinclair Lewis. A warning that political, safety, and security concerns can systematically alter the culture and power structure when people blindly support their leaders without adequate consideration of the very gradually and slowly diminishing of their freedoms and civil rights.

The paranoids are out to get me!

JOEFLINT...just a thought, are you friends with THEKID?

I am not against this gadget like I said before, but honestly, I wouldn't go there. First, because it isn't my "type" of place, second, there is no need for me to be in a place where that type of security is necessary, (unless I were to go to LA or NY), but if the thugs are going to play dirty then the bars have to play dirtier. But the sad thing is, these thugs are just going to take over another establishment that CAN'T afford this gadget, so, you aren't going to stop the violence as a whole, only in sections. That is the sad part.

I read someone stating on here that they stay home where they have their privacy. I sincerely doubt that any of us have any REAL privacy. We are in the age of anything is possible. Try a few times to search on the internet something "naughty", and then get into trouble and see how long it takes the authorities to find out what you have been up to. Just because you are behind your walls doesn't mean they can't be knocked down or looked through. Just behave yourself, and you won't have anything to worry about. Those who are guilty inside, never feel safe on the outside.

JOEFLINT....OMG!!! So, when you run a red light or speed and the officer asks for your DL, you are telling me they get a warrant to do that???? Do you really think that officer that is following you down the highway and DOESN'T pull over didn't run your plates and check on you without you even knowing it?? You think you were just being followed....right? Get a grip.

joeflint...Warrant for what?? Looking at the information on your DL? Get real..once you get a DL that is a privilege not a right...so no warrant is needed to get that information...Please.

"I have nothing to hide." If there is an afterlife, this nation's forefathers are vomiting. Nostradamus has nothing on George Orwell.
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So, dear Gazette, as the Fourth Estate of this community: did you question if a proper warrant is obtained by law enforcement before the information stored in these devices is accessed?

Papers please!

I think these bouncers using this machine need be have background checks and should be bonded in case there is a matter of identify theft. You are giving them all the information that they would need to get fake ids or to sell to someone who needs/wants a fake id. Truly an invasion of privacy.

How about we get all the same information on the bouncers and the owners so that if anything happens we can have all this information in our records too?

jvlwisc. it was your shirt. they turn away lots of people because of what they are wearing. its called a dress code/policy.

"The data is not sold or shared, he said"
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YET.
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Everything has a price.

This seems to be a disaster in the making. What's next? Will Quotes be catching parking violators for the cops?

If Quotes is recording the identity of all its customers, it's not technically difficult to use cameras to keep a record of each purchase each person makes. This would be a treasure trove of information for attorneys. Suing for custody? Let's see how often your ex goes to Quotes and how much he or she drinks. Trying to get life insurance and you claim you don't smoke? Let's check the Quotes data base.

Did you tick someone off recently? According to the Quotes data base, you have 5 drinks every Thursday evening. Next Thursday, the cops will watch you as you drive home.

According to the bar, the data "is not sold or shared." Do you really think the owners will go to jail rather than comply with a government order or discovery request in litigation?

No thanks. I'll take my business elsewhere. I have nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I send all my correspondence using postcards.

I had never to Quotes; but since I lived in the neighborhood, I rode my bike (bicycle) there one nite, thinking I could grab a bite and have a drink...

NOPE.... Because I had on a WHITE T-shirt they would not let me in !!!!!! ?????????????

Me ! 30 something, middle class, riding my bike, lives in the neighborhood...BUT I cannot come in BECAUSE....my T-shirt is white ??????
I wore the wrong color t-shirt ?!?!?!

Was it really an issue about the color of my shirt or was I just "not cool enough" for Quotes ??

I am very confused.

"Where everybody knows your name,
and they're always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name."
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CHEERS...er I mean QUOTES

Hay OFF subject what ever happen to the guy who got punched in the face by the bouncer out side of this place,THE OWNER DEFENDED HIM WHILE STILL EMPLOYED BY THE STATE????? hmmmmm ???

Pros and Cons....Better security I guess, but loss of privacy. I used to be able to walk in a bar and have a beer and no one would know my name...Now things are different...it might just keep good paying, well behaving people away...it is the information age....becareful what you wish for.jmo

I quit going to bars when they wanted $3 a beer....and now they want to scan me...I feel violated! :)

The Professor is correct. Not only does this technology increase the risk of identity theft but that risk becomes greater with each separate visit. As for "adequate controls" being a possible solution, one should always be skeptical of any such assurances. There is no such thing as completely secure data, only relative degrees of vulnerability. Considering the ongoing incidents of personal data stolen from on-line stores, banks, hospitals and government agencies --all of which have privacy policies and security personnel-- isn't it rather naive to expect some small retail merchant to do better job of securing your personal information?

If that isn't enough to scare you, consider the customer who pays with a credit card. That merchant would then hold enough information to compromise that customer's account and worse... far worse. There is a reason why one should never write their drivers license number on a check and why credit card companies never print the cardholder's address on their card. It simply places too much critical information in one place.

I intend no disrespect toward merchants or their employees and do understand the legitimate reasons why a merchant might want to have access to such personal information. However, it is far more important that the public understand it would be a very, very bad idea to give it to them. I'd find another place to spend my money.

The only people who should be upset by this are the ones who go to places like Quotes and cause trouble. People who don't cause trouble that have a problem with this are the type of people who just want to complain about things all the time. I bet they wouldn't be so upset if their child was beaten or raped at/outside a bar and they wouldn't have caught the guy without this sort of monitoring system.

This is a bad idea for a free society. People who don't know any better will learn the hard way one day...
VIP in Delavan has one of these also.

I remember when quotes first openend. There was always broken beer bottles and trash everywhere. Glad to hear there cleaning house.

The only problem I see with this gadget is it is only as dependable as the operator. And I am afraid that most bouncer's can be "baught".

I think this is wonderful being I went to this bar ONE TIME and whitnessed so many "gang" types, I have never felt the need to return. And really, who cares if it is expensive. If the bar owner can afford the device, then that is their business. The only thing I disagree with in this article is, I don't think they should have made it public knowledge that they work with the police. That should have been kept hush hush. But overall, I am impressed that this business is taking steps to get rid of the rifraf. As far as the recording personal information, there are security cameras all over the place that record your appearance. And your weight, height and eye color aren't really all that big of a deal are they?? Go to a casino once, some of them fingerprint you.....

Professor - no problem. I didn't take you point as rude, but just that, a point of view. I just look at things like this type of big brother situation as a reaction to an action. Example; you wouldn't need a dress code in school if young girls weren't walking around with half of their breasts exposed, and young men with their underwear showing. I don't think I would like somebody telling me what to wear, but I can understand it when it is required because of the actions of others. Society has the choice to reduce the reason for extra involvement by the government or police by controlling their actions. It is unfortunate that there are a few who ruin it for all of us. They can monitor, record, watch, or whatever they want, because it really doesn't change or intefere with what I do.

Does this little machine "log you out" when you leave? Or are you assumed to be there the whole evening? In other words, if there are problems after you leave, will you be contacted by police to see if you have witnessed anything? Or participated in an event?

I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but these three goals are disconcerting:

"-- To help police catch "persons of interest" if they enter the bar."

The tavern is now effectively a check point for people who have not been charged with a crime.

"-- To take away the anonymity of visitors."

In effect, you pay a cover charge in the form of surrendered marketing information, including your address and drivers license number.

"-- To keep out undesirable patrons who might be leery of the scanner"

This implies that all patrons who might be leery are undesirable, including those that just may be socially concious.

Has anyone noticed that we give up all our rights as soon as the word, "security" is used? It doesn't even have to do anything for our security, but we go along with it because someone has evoked that special word.

who cares. if you dont have anything to hide then it shouldnt be a big deal. Im in my 30s and quotes is one of my favorite places to go spend an evening out. The reference to "gangsters" is way off, that was spankys, and its closed now. Quotes has somewhat of a dress code to keep the gang crap to a minimum. They play a wide variety of music- country, rock, hip hop, even some oldies now and then. It is generally a clean bar, unlike many here in town. Ive been going there for years and will continue to go there.

Cater to trailer trash and they will come.

"Like any bar, Quotes has incidents where intoxicated people fight, break glasses or commit a crime such as stealing." - True, but I'd be willing to bet it has MORE of these types of incidents than just about any other bar in town.

"They want a nice, clean, safe place to play." - If I want those types of things in a bar, Quotes wouldn't even be in the top 20. Who wants to hang out with a bunch of gangsters who just want to pick fights?? Besides, if the cops are going there with names of "persons of interest", it's probably not the kind of place you want to go in the first place.

Professor - you are smarter than everyone knows. I'm impressed.

I think the logical solution to all of this nonsense is to start your own religion that mandates smoking and underage drinking.

Problem sol-ved.

Localboy--apologies if I got crabby--even rude. I know that in the end, if I don't want to give up my info, I don't have to go to that bar. What worries me is if that becomes acceptable--even common-place; to me, it becomes the equivalent of 'showing my papers'. I DO think this could add to identity theft if there are not adequate controls on what happens to the info after you leave.

'people fight, people sneak, people cheat and people lie while they are at Quotes and other bars'...ahhhhh...good ole 'eviler of two evils' :)

Some of these posts (including mine) have gone off the path a little. The only valid question is; why does Quotes need this device? Because people fight, people sneak, people cheat and people lie while they are at Quotes and other bars. If people didn't fight, sneak, cheat, or lie, you wouldn't need it. It sounds like a social morality issue, not a privacy issue.

How typical...most people DO find a reason not to follow through. And, I like the ACLU reference...I presume you support them, as their SOLE purpose is to defend the constitutional rights of EVERY person in the country...

deltafox:
I first heard about it from this PBS Frontline story. See the first chapter.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...

More info.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2...

All the bars in Janesville suck. Almost everytime I have gone out here, I see a fight break out. I'll stay at home and keep away from the stupid nonsense.

Professor ACLU - I don't need to waive my constitutional rights. They are already allowed to come to my house (inside), search my car, and search myself, all they need is my permission. Since I can't remember the last time I had contact with any law agency that was for a violation, I would easily give them permission. That is all I need to do. Therefore I don't need to give a stranger the opportunity to waive my constitutional rights. I question the individual (you) that would even suggest it, and even carry it out.

Hope this helps. I still would not feel safe at this bar. It has a history of troublemaker patrons. The effectiveness of this device would depend upon the employees (i.e. bouncers) doing their job, which in this case I wouldn't count on.

"Ben is dead, and I am sure that people were of more honor in his day then now."

If Ben was concerned then, during what you call a more honorable time, shouldn't we be more concerned now?

Nice piece. I have been an intermittent patron of this fine establishment since its inception. While I am wary of where and how any of my personal information is stored and used, I think it's a good idea. I it wasn't clear how the gadget has cut down on violent, non-violent crime. Any figures or police stats back that up? Who were the five people? You stated it as a fact, but didn't say how you came to this conclusion. I didn't see a police quote either, did they ever get back to you? As far as "banning people," quotes has done this before only to let them in later. Novel idea though. Quotes for life.

Quotes is the worst bar in Janesville next to the old pines bar which is something else these days

Zoom,
Could you provide a link about the FBI-Vegas thing, please...I am interested...

Localboy--Since you apparently have nothing to hide, why not put your full name and address on this post. If you don't want to do that, send it to me privately, and I will fill out a legal Waiver of Constitutional Rights--giving the police--local, state and federal--your permission to come to your home any time, day or night, and search it for contraband. This will apply to your vehicles as well. Once completed and signed by you, I'll send it to all of the police agencies in the area. I'm assuming you will have no problems doing this, as I'm sure the police won't find anything. You will be setting a great example for what living in a free society is all about.

But aren't all these partrons being "disenfrancised" by having to show their ID's? Boy, if each person entering a polling booth on election day had to submitt to this ID check, we would have zero vote fraud!

Very well said, Zoom. Whenever any institution or government (any authority figure) tries to make people feel anxious (in this case about violence and under-age drinking dangers), far too many will be openly receptive to abandoning their common sense and their civil rights in the argument these issues over-ride any worry about personal privacy and rights. Anyone who has ever been involved in identity theft knows first-hand why this is an important issue and why others should avoid the ever encroaching attempts to "store" personal data.

Zoom - Ben is dead, and I am sure that people were of more honor in his day then now. If we didn't have cheats, thieves, pedophiles, murderers, rapists, burglars, liars, and illegal aliens, we wouldn't have the need for temporary safety. I am sure Ben would be beside himself with the state of society now. It takes a village to raise an idiot, and we got plenty of them running around. We have chipped at the foundation of a moral society in the last 2-3 generations, and now we are paying for it and need constant policing because we are unable to police ourselves.

"So many people in America think this does not affect them. They've been convinced that these programs are only targeted at suspected terrorists. … I think that's wrong. … Our programs are not perfect, and it is inevitable that totally innocent Americans are going to be affected by these programs," former CIA Assistant General Counsel Suzanne Spaulding tells FRONTLINE correspondent Hedrick Smith in Spying on the Home Front.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...

This isn't a brand new idea, just new to the area. I have been to bars in Chicago that have been doing something similar for years. I think that overall it's a good thing.

"If the bars can keep out the underage,trouble markers etc.it's a good thing."

Yes, it is. And they can do that without permanently recording the information. This is different than recording your purchase transactions.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

If you really think about this,it's no different than when you go to any store and write a check,use a credit/debit card.All stores can tell how often you are there and what you buy and return.I returned something at Target and they looked it up and there it was.Good thing my husband wasn't standing by me at the time ,it showed EVERYTHING I had brought(i believe) in the last 18 months.If the bars can keep out the underage,trouble markers etc.it's a good thing.If the person that had started the fire at the Good Fellows hall not been in the building when fire/police got there it would of helped to know who he was.Does anyone know if it can check for people with warrants or people that the police are looking for.Anything to make it safer for those that don't break the laws and can play nice with others is ok with me .

If you take away the under agers and trouble makers, what business does Quotes have left?

By the way - people who are worried about privacy are paranoid. Very, very paranoid.

sannio - people do understand privacy. It is called; in the confines of your own home. If you are out in public (exposed to general view), your are just that. You are at a private business open to the PUBLIC. If you are so concerned about privacy, do not leave your house or enter, view, make contact with anything public. It is the price of freedom. I will bet you that you would think different if your son or daughter came up missing after a night at a public place, and the police were able to locate them due to information collected by the so called bad big brother. I am not sure what data a hacker would be intersted in, that is located on your driver's license. Are you afraid somebody will know your weight?

you would have to pay me to go to this bar-the owners are a joke !!

People who don't understand privacy are very ignorant people. Very very ignorant.

proartist: You are correct if the fact that this is a "Free Nation", however there are still rules/laws to be followed. If you follow the rules/laws you should not be afraid to identify yourself. This is for the safety of the public, and most important preventing minors from drinking. Take a minute and think of all of the places that you give your name, address, email, or phone. Just so you can save a few cents at the checkout or get "rewards". Right down to being able to blog on this website. Most of these places that you have given your info to are legally selling this information. Again, if you have something to hide.....

Previous post: "...if you have something to hide you should stay in hiding"
The nation continues to fall farther and farther into a country where everyone is presumed guilty until proven innocent. Isn't this supposed to be the other way around in a "free" nation?

I've never been to this place, but I know if a business wanted to scan my ID and store my personal information just so I could enter and shop...I'd find another place to shop. If I was an identity thief - I'd sure want that database.

"But don't be fooled, all you tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorists, you are getting watched more than you know."

The "conspiracy theorists" already know how they are being watched and recorded. The problem is that John Q. Public doesn't know. Does the bar hand out information describing what data is being permanently recorded? I don't have a problem using the device to verify an I.D., or to keep out people already banned, or to even help identify trouble makers after an altercation. I would have a problem with permanently recording all the data for who knows what use. Of course, now that I now, I can choose not to go there, but where does it end? Read the article I posted about the 2004 FBI incident in Las Vegas. That's the reality.

I think the comment that says "We are a popular enough bar.." is a total joke. I myself refuse to go to Quotes along with my friends. Even with this new device, I know it won't change my feeling on Quotes.

I agree after the night is over delete info unless a problem of a patron needs to be addressed or barred...........I think it is great to use but it should only be for id and age conformation, Not for looking into to persons past background or any other private matters... And again delete info. Isnt this a violation of rights to hold information unknown to patron? Is the patron told this is stored in PC and is kept?

What's funny is that people say that this is invasive. You choose to go to this establishment, or you can choose not to. By knowing that they will scan your ID, you can choose not to be a part of "the big brother" idea, and drink somewhere else. But don't be fooled, all you tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorists, you are getting watched more than you know. Every time you walk into most retailers, banks, etc. you are video taped. Every time you use your cell phone, your location is recorded, every time you use a check, or debit credit card, that information is saved. Every time you log on the internet, on blog on sites like this one, you could be tracked. I think it is a great idea that Quotes is taking a very proactive response to ending the fighting and underage drinking that goes on down there.

I love the idea that the bar is doing something to keep problems away. However; I'm not going there; I don't want to be part of a hard drive somewhere. I don't want my shopping habits watched either. And no, I don't have a record at all. I'm old fashioned, clip coupons, drink at home, dance at weddings. I an not de-sensitized yet.

Those cards you get from the grocery stores and other stores are the same thing. They use your information to track your buying habits and how often you are there. This is good technology from a marketing standpoint as well as security issues.

So this is a cop bar. Article says you busted 5 people so far. btw, why would anyone show I D to enter a place to have your personal info into a bars computer system that sometime in the future be at risk to a hacker. No thanks! I'll drink at home for 68 cents a bottle

I can't figure out why the Tavern League would be against such a device. It certainly benefits the bar owner, if they choose to spend the money for it.

"The data is not sold or shared, he said."

There is nothing to prevent them from doing so in the future, at any time. The government can also request this information at any time.

The old idea of Big Brother, with huge government owned data collecting computers, will never happen, because businesses will collect all the data the government needs. The government just has to request the data when it wants. Thanks to the Patriot Act, it is easier than ever.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2...

Sounds like a good idea. I guess if you have something to hide you should stay in hiding. If it helps keep minors out..good. Law enforcement is also using the new bar codes on the license's maybe than will minimize changes so equipment will not be outdated as quickly. Maybe the city should look at some kind of grant program to help deter the cost or when the bar owners use these divises to help law enforcement catch the bad guys they could get a credit towards the cost. The more of them out there the better. It should help protect everyone. Bar owner and patrons.

I have no problem with the device, but I think the bar should have to delete the information at the end of the night. Let them keep troublemakers or persons of interest, but for us who are just having clean fun they should erase it.

The only people who are worried about "big brother" are the ones to have something to hide. I know it wouldn't bother me if they scanned me on the way in. We wouldn't need big brother if people knew how to behave and act properly.

I would think $1400 for the scanner would be cheaper than getting ticketed for serving minors.

I think it is great that Quotes moved to this technology after all the problems they were having there.

Hey, whats my daughter doing with