i tell you what then return our our jobs not only for me but those who are being shafted right now.Spoiled gm idiot

Hey, unknown, re: your threat, why don't you shove that fist up where you like things shoved up!!!

I tell you what id like to see some one try to say that to some ones face that works for a gm suplier that has lost there job cause i garentee that testteriffic an gazzettfan would both eat a fist morons.

Harmony5, first of all, I appreciate that you read all of my posts before verbally attacking me. Many here will not do me the due service of absorbing my cogent points before declining to join me in throwing stones through the "18 million cracks" in Janesville's glass ceiling. I get the feeling that you are a chick, so I will simply respond to your post with a quote from one of the greatest ladies of our generation, Eleanor Roosevelt. She said "If you personally know a pig, and you are not only friends of that pig, but have often gotten together for coffee and discussed issues of the day, and one day you discover that the pig you have befriended is ACTUALLY a lying pig in hog's clothing...eat it, and it will probably taste the same as a pig.". Now you think about that, will you please? They are words of greatness from a fabulous lady that was not strong in the looks department, but definitely a keeper in the thinking department. We need more like her. And as always, God Bless America.

As long as the city manager is performing his duties, at least satisfactorily, he is not an issue during campaign time. If he were a problem then he would become an issue and one or more of the candidates would campaign on that issue. The one or two times someone did campaign on that issue they were soundly defeated.

The petition attempt to convert to the mayoral system was also soundly defeated.

Put all this together and the voters and some non-voters, in effect, voted for the city manager/council system and for Steve Sheiffer.

By the way the city council hires the city manager we dont get to vote for the city manager at all just the city council.

He is retireing so he dont have to take any responsibility for gm leaveing or the other business that will be effected so my question is where are the jobs gonna come from something to think about.Cause once a business goes out specialy a manufacture nothing never replaces it the job of the city mananger an the city council is to promte Janesville as a place for companies to do business in Janesville an that is where the city manager an city council have failed miserable.I worked for Parker Pen Aqudine an Lear so ho many times do we get screwed before its enough.

It's always been "default" of "de voters".

Well if you say "by default" then you've come a long way. I was going to tell you to drop the rope and go home. You're giving me hope.

In voting, for council or any other office, the issues are, to borrow from "Charter Communications" "Bundled"... not "a la carte."
Thus, a specific issue is usually addressed by default at the ballot box.
And to borrow a phrase from Walter Cronkite..."and that's the way it is."

When the blind man holds the tale of an elephant, he thinks it's a rope.

As long as the city manager is performing his duties, at least satisfactorily, he is not an issue during campaign time. If he were a problem then he would become an issue and one or more of the candidates would campaign on that issue. The one or two times someone did campaign on that issue they were soundly defeated.

The attempt to petition for the mayoral system was also soundly defeated.

Put all this together and the voters and some non-voters, in effect, voted for the city manager system and Steve Sheiffer.

How many voters cast a ballot for city council with the intention of retaining or rejecting the city manager at the time?
I would venture to guess very few if any.
There are usually other issues in the forefront to direct ones' vote.

But that really is exactly the point, JohnDoe. The city manager position is not a popularity contest. The city council are the elected representatives with the primary (not peripheral) responsibility of retaining professional management, and evaluating that management on a regular basis. This is the very essence of council-manager government. Policy change takes place at the council level, gradually, as members are replaced. Implementation of policy is the remit of the manager, and evaluation is done by the council as to whether he is performing according to professional and policy guidelines. If the council were not doing their jobs, they would lose them.

Contrary to what some may think, the city manager is not retained by the electorate each year by simply electing city councillors.
In order for that simplistic fallacy to have any merit whatsoever, the city council elections would need to be based on one issue voting. This is simply not the case. In fact, when votes are cast it would be a safe bet that any particular ballot is not cast based on a candidates critique of the city manager.
The retention (or rejection) of a city manager is a periphery function of the council, albeit an important one, but not one on which elections are won or lost.

Here's the question, why do you still live here if you are so unhappy? What a demeaning attitude.

One question for testerrific - I just spent 15 minutes reading all of the posts. You seem to be unhappy in Janesville. Or at least unhappy regarding the city's approach to managing. Real simple solution - step up to the plate and participate. Oh, wait, I don't think I would want you to lead anywhere I live.

I can't say if Steve was a good manager or not. However I can say that he had the ability to polarize people! I met him on the street a few times & tried to at least say hello but he went by me like I didn't even exist. I also know of at least once when he stormed out of a council meeting into the offices across the hall & started slamming doors. (In a child that would have called a temper tantrum)

Hey SarahB I have done my research and Osama Obama wants that upper income to be considered household incomes of $40,000 and above! That is not %5 of this country its more like %90 of our country, This isn't the page to dispute these facts with you right now, but I'm sure over the next 2 months there will be pleanty of places we will talk again on this and many other topics.......

Doc0430: Please do more research on Sen. Obama's tax plan. Only those in the top 5 percent income bracket would see a tax hike.

ms_sassy_wi: the greatest words (quote) that were ever said....

Testerrific.....Yes, Janesville is a big deal to those of us that enjoy living here. As one other poster alluded to..I won't go into detail affirming his acomplisments or argueing in defence of his defeats but his heart was in making Janesvile a better place. I truely believe that Janesvile is a better place because of this city employee.
A simpleton with a flashlight I may be but I'll be glad anytime to leave city managment in the hands of a person like Sheiffer.

Thanks, Zoom. And testerrific, don't mess with my sesquipedalianism.

Off Topic.: A simple google search of "trilinguality" will illustrate it's uses.

Again, we have several arm chair city managers flinging arrows of criticism. I again, encourage you same people to apply for the job of city manager. With the amount of experience and education it takes to run a city of this size, one could work in the private sector for about 5X the salary. For the few who believe this is their calling, we get to aquire them and hope they are the best. I believe we got a good one with Steve. Most of you people who fling those arrows, really don't know what you are talking about, because you haven't been in a position to manage anything, let alone a city. You can make your points, but it doesn't make you an expert in our eyes.

Finally....after 20 years too long....Good Riddance

testerrific, "trilinguality" is a real word and even if it weren't in use it'd be a legitimate construction.

And your lack of respect for the electorate will never get you elected Mayor Hitler.

Yes, unknown, you have a big problem with cause and effect.

I don't know if "Unknown" said it, but I'm sure he's heard it plenty enough.

I wish I could give proper credit, but one of my favorite quotes applies here:
"Everyone has the power to make others happy. Some do it by entering the room, others by leaving it." Unknown

Sheiffer is responsible for GM closing? What?

You really need to read more. You know, news type stuff.

You cleared up things nicely too, Gazettefan. "Trilinguality" is not a word. But it is always fun to watch the Janesville electorate attempt to use big words. I will make sure to share this anecdote with Andreah Briarmoon on our first date.

i have every right to be angry when i loose my home an my job under his administration you be an i look at how many businesses have closed sense 1993 i just wonder if anyone elese looks at those numbers like i do.An rember when GM dose leave who do you think has to pay for the Jackson street project.An how many people are in the same situation im in.An what do you think will happen to those workers who will loose there jobs when GM dose close they will be stuck with a hard choice to stay or leave.or take a less paying job in another town so they can support there family.You think long an hard about that when you ask if were any better off then when he took over.An juto point out im not the only resident who feels this way ask around once you might be suprised.

I was going to say something similar, with many more words.

Testerrific, unfortunately your most recent post proves my point that the City Manager position is one to be taken seriously and handled through a Human Resources office. We, as a community, hire the City Manager. We, as a community, make our City Manager accountable for his/her actions. Again, this is only for the people who care enough about his/her community to be involved, informed and educated. If someone just wants to complain about a "stop light" which causes a delay for them, I'm not really interested. If someone wants to suggest that a stop light be installed BEFORE someone's child is killed crossing at an intersection coming home from school, I have a different view. It's all in how you look at the world...and in my case, it's MY world anyway. I'll see things how I choose to, thanks. ;)

Wow, unknown and testerrific, really tap-out easily.

Maybe all your tension and alienation is based in the trilinguality of your English, French and German. And maybe those problems are compounded by your television-soaked frame of reference.

You cleared it all up nicely. Say hello to B'moon; try not to kiss on the first date.

My anger is not displaced, you filthy swine. It is safe at home, I assure you. Sit, Ubu, Sit. Good Dog. GOTCHA!!!!!!!!!!

I sense displaced anger.

what a bunch of morons we have here

Gazettefan, how dare you suggest I might have a respect for the electorate. I have no respect for the electorate. I just think the knucklehead electorate should have the chance to elect their own knuckleheads on their own terms. Apparantly, the electorate is not even smart enough in Janesville to recognize this import, and voted to leave it up to the City Council to name a "manager" and to consult with outside consultants to determine the important issues of the day (like a friggin' STOP LIGHT). You don't like the concept of an elected mayor, but I do. Hmmm...I have a good idea that I think will bring peace between us, and also incorporate the attention span of the electorate in the process. We should get about 60,000 mayoral candidates on a stage and make them hide in briefcases while Howie Mandel asks each citizen of Janesville to pick a briefcase. Eventually, there will only be one briefcase remaining, and whoever is inside of it gets to be mayor. The electorate would friggin' love that process. Or we could do something like BIG BROTHER, where the mayoral candidates live in a big house with hidden TV cameras, and each week we vote off a different candidate, until we finally get a mayor. Or I am even thinking of a GONG SHOW remake or something. But this is only because I am trying to relate to the electorate that is more concerned about Jennifer Aniston's dating life than important Janesville issues like roundabouts or the fact that councilman Tom McDonald jaywalks. It is true, I almost hit him one night while he was illegally crossing the Court Street Bridge near downtown in the dark of night. But that is another matter. The electorate likes those shows, because reality is not real anymore. Real reality is really real, and it is really a bummer. Let's just watch Howie Mandel instead, to keep it real. I believe I have FULLY and COMPLETELY responded to your swinish retorts, Gazettefan. TOUCHE.

It's "and", not "an".

unknown, true, you're entitled to your opinion; it's just a question of how you arrived at it. The great majority of Janesville disagrees with you.

Here's a tip. If you aren't sure how to spell something, type the word into an email or word processor, and run spell check. Wow.

"This ain't Mayberry. Well, it kind of is like Mayberry if you really think about it."

What?

I say good ridence he didnt do Janesville any good an were worse off now than when he took office.To many businees an jobds have left the area under his administration.Maybe now we can get some one in that can bring jobs back an make the community viberant again.Instead of constently wasteing money an spending foolishly.Again this is just my opion

That's a good world, ms_sassy. It's good not to live a world of ILLOGICAL disgruntlement. Disgruntlement is bad enough when it's based in reality. ;-)

Testerrific, contradiction: Janesville is Mayberry but is important enough to be governed by the highly exulted (in your mind) mayoral system.

Councilmembers are elected here every two years. The president every four years. It would be much easier here to get rid of an undesirable city manager here. It would be more difficult to get rid of an undesirable presidential appointee (but not impossible). The principal is the same though.

The presidential election in November would include a decision on the matter of Rumsfeld. But his resignation in 2006 shows that the proper pressure can force an appointee out of office. That's how it works. There's is no such pressure here re: city employees and councilmembers. This is proof that the people of Janesville are satisfied.

and for the record, I do NOT think people in Janesville are stupid...those are not my beliefs or my words. I do believe; however, that people are not as involved in their local elections as much as the National/Presidential elections. I rarely hear a person my age discussing local politics, qualifications of candidates running for City Council, etc.
Is it because they don't care? Do I not have conversations with educated people? Is it such a clique that only the "appropriate" people are given information about who is running for these seats? I want to vote for the best candidate, who I feel will address the concerns that I have and has enough influence to be heard. How much energy, time and focus do you think the average citizen spends on understanding a candidate's platform?

wow, thanks for giving me my own world.

Testerrific:

Repeating now: The people choose the city manager by way of a minimally, politically charged city manager/council form of government.

B'moon has run for council several times and each time she was soundly rejected by the electorate of Janesville. In effect, this means that the electorate has more than once voted against what you propose here.

Your complaints lack specificity. Why is Sheiffer and the current system here overwhelmingly supported by the electorate? Answer that question while showing respect for the electorate of Janesville.

Gazettefan, I am eternally curious as to what my contradictions are. And most certainly...my, and I quote, my "misapplication of comparisons and details". LOL.

Testerrifc, your self-contradictory posts re: the importance of managing Janesville is further weakened by your misapplication of comparisons and details.

Ms Sassy, I had no idea you were a fascist. Yes, how dare our Democracy be dictated by the people. That would be outrage. Our Democracy should, in "Sassy World", be determined by the elite already in control. As long as the elite follow the directives of the elite already in power. That way, Briarmoon will never achieve office. How dare Andreah Briarmoon "pander" for piteous votes from the electorate in a Democratic society. That would be pathetic, and wrong. She is evil, and horrible..and the electorate might accidentally vote for her because she had a bigger sign in her backyard. Ms. Sassy has made the dictum..."Free Elections Are Bad Because People In Janesville Are Stupid". Honestly, I think Ms Sassy might have read my bumper sticker and stolen that notion.

which is PRECISELY why the City Manager position should remain as it is, rather than elected by the people. Most people don't have any idea what the vision, abilities or perhaps more importantly, weaknesses a candidate has. Many local elections consist of people basing their decision on name recognition, the size of the signs in neighbor's yards and who looks the best. Is that who you want running the City of Janesville? Heck, if it went to a vote, B-moon may win based on name-recognition alone! LOL

Ms Sassy...I don't have any idea what the Janesville City Council thinks about anything, let alone the performance of the City Manager. I usually have to wait for the highly paid outside consultants to tell me what the Janesville City Council thinks most of the time.

Ms Sassy, I just wish we could vote for the leader of this "little metropolis". It just seems corrupt that we cannot. This ain't Mayberry. Well, it kind of is like Mayberry if you really think about it. But still, we should have an elected official running a town of 60,000+ people. At some point, accountability has to be a factor. A City Manager really doesn't have any accountability. If GW Bush actually had accountability after his first four years, so should the "fearless leader of Janesburg". Although, GW was reelected, so the options of an "informed electorate" might not be my best argument here.

Testerrific, are you saying that the City Council, who ARE elected city officials are just "puppets" and do not have any working brain cells, or don't have the "gumption" to speak up and possibly NOT renew a contract for someone who isn't doing their job efficiently? If so, then it is NOT the City Manager's fault; rather the fault would lie on the shoulders and conscience of the City Council.

ok, so now I DON'T agree with Testerrific. I'm sorry that you feel it is such a joke to run this city. I know that Janesville is no metropolis, but it's a little different than controlling your own household budget. During my lifetime, Janesville's population (and the issues that accompany more people) has more than doubled. I think you are, at best, fooling yourself...or at worst, demeaning and condescending in regards to the wisdom, strength and intelligence (intelligence and wisdom are two separate traits) it takes to run a city of this size, especially for over 20 years. Mr. Sheiffer has been the City Manager during this city's growth, and I believe he deserves to be commended for his commitment and work during his years here.

The electorate of Janesville retained Sheiffer for 21 years because...follow me now...there were no elections for his "office". Yes, I suppose to follow your argument, there were "other elections", and the result of "other elections" resulted in a retainment. That would kind of be like saying Donald Rumsfeld held his appointed office because official elections were conducted, and those that won decided he could continue. And we all see how that turned out....

Managing this town is a big deal. That's why the electorate of Janesville retained Sheiffer for over twenty-one years (he wasn't just irrevocably "appointed" for that period of time). The electorate repeatedly did this by repeatedly electing councilmembers who repeatedly renewed his contract -twenty-nine duly elected councilmembers in all.

The mayoral\aldermanic system is a politically charged system. The president of the council is the closest position to a mayor needed here.

I just want to make it clear that in my comments toward Doc0430, I am not defending, nor denying, Sheiffer's contributions to Janesville over the last 21 years. But then again, come on...it's JANESVILLE. I have a horrible feeling that any simpleton with a flashlight and a deck of cards could manage this town, to be honest. It ain't that big of a deal to manage Janesville. I mean, it's JANESVILLE, for God sakes. I know Janesvillians will say it is a big deal...but that is the only reason we have a city manager...because it is a faux big deal. Good Lord Man, it is JANESVILLE. I have to admit, I thought it was hilarious, in the attached article, that Sheiffer said that he would be willing to be a CONSULTANT for the city in the future! This entire loser "village" is dictated by CONSULTANTS for the dumbest of reasons. Sheiffer is just moving up in the heirarchy is all, if you really think about it. He is obviously just chasing the money. Honestly, it is a smart move on his part. What a dumb town this is. Can anyone spell the word "mayer"? Or is it "mayhur"? Possibly "mayorr". Forget the spelling, Jake. It's Chinaville.

I will agree with Testerrific. I must confess I USED to read those types of posts 2 or 3 times to try to understand where the commenter was coming from and what s/he was trying to say...now I just laugh at the mess of it all and move on to some other, hopefully better-written posts. But I do it with a smile!
And considering that this article was regarding Mr. Sheiffer's retirement, what I would like to say is that no one in public office is going to please everyone at all times. I truly think that Mr. Sheiffer had wisdom to think of outcomes more than "whims" or passing fads. He made some decisions that really helped the city in the long run. I wish him the best during his retirement. In spite of some areas of concern, I think his heart for Janesville was in the right place.

I'm glad i'm not the only one that didn't understand what doc was saying ! Maybe he shouldn't post at bar time !!

Testerrific and jansevillean, right on! Sounds like doc needs one.

AMF!

I am not sure who Doc0430 is, but I hope he continues to contribute to this board in regard to every topic. It is so bizarre. Reading his comments is kind of like listening to Jerry Lewis back in the 70s, when he hosted the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon all goofed up on percodan at about 3 AM. Doc0430's points are completely indecipherable, but his passion is evident. For my money, that is what makes for a truly memorable, incognito genius on an anonymous message board. I am being dead serious here when I say his posts are completely, unexplainably, horribly, wonderfully entertaining...in the very worst way those compliments could be presented. Therefore, please continue, Doc. America needs it. And GW Bush has approved this message.

Congratulations and thanks for your years of service. Janesville is in better shape to weather the coming loss of GM thanks to your leadership.

I'm still recovering so here is A little part 2~ Steve brought us our smoking ban!!!!!! WOW What A saviour he is on this one....... So on this new law there where A couple of MA and PA places that had to close due to the the lack of buisness!!!!! I KNOW I KNOW we had A .diffrerent approach to the problem but that involves them buying into A whole different plan or sitiouation so lets continue with our business as usuall! Good Night Sweet Heart While Its Time To Go!!!!!!

Why ask why?, the first and several more small steps can now begin with Steve all done now~ I find it so hilarious that he assumes his biggest 2 things are such..... #1 No mayor election! WOW Way to o and stop the voice of government on what we need instead we where stuck with you for 21 years!!!!! Good thing GEORGE BUSH WAS'NT APPOINTED CITY STATES OF THE UNITED MANAGER!!>>>>> Or what ever spin the want to put on this! We as in this life IE; If you make more than $40,000.00 A year~ Obama Osama Biden Obama would like to spike your taxes 33% so you better start looking for that 5TH pocket where we keep all the extra money that OBAMA wants!!! As far as I can see, everything else in life has gone up by about if you figure in our cost of living increase %33 A year!!!!!! So people get ready and if you are retired think about what you have saved up already...... OSAMA OBAMA WANTS YOUR MONEY!!!!!!