Hunters stumble upon massive marijuana crop
Podcast Episode
A marijuana growing operation discovered in Rock County in August appears to be part of a wider organized operation. Kyle Geissler reports.
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This camp serves as proof that someone had been tending to the massive marijuana growing operation.
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Clinton police officer Aaron Walz makes his way through a massive marijuana growing operation in a rural area near Lima Township. The grow operation, which authorities recognized as a 'very well disciplined operation,' included an estimated 2,400 high-grade plants that had been transplanted, not grown from seed.
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Lima Township marijuana grow.
JANESVILLE — It was big. It was sophisticated. It was highly organized.
It was the largest marijuana-growing operation the brass at the Rock County Sheriff’s Office had seen in their decades on the job.
And it apparently was the operation of a criminal organization rooted in Mexico but flowering in the upper Midwest.
No arrests have been made in the ongoing investigation.
“These aren’t farm boys trying to make a few bucks,” Sheriff Bob Spoden said. “There was a level of sophistication I haven’t seen in my career.
“This was new for our experienced drug officers.”
And it was new to the hunters scouting private land in Lima Township near Rock-Walworth County Line Road and Johnstown-Lima Town Line Road in the northeast corner of Rock County.
Isolated location
The grow site was not in Lima Marsh but was adjacent to public land, said Spoden, who declined to be more specific about the location.
The Janesville Gazette learned the crossroads to which the site was nearest through search warrant documents.
Two hunters had stalked deer in some 15 acres of woods and swampy land around the woods last fall. They returned to set up their deer stand for the upcoming season Saturday, Aug. 23.
They found the remnants of what looked to be a harvested marijuana field, about an acre in all, said Lt. Todd Christiansen, head of the sheriff’s office detective bureau.
When they found the first of two tents at the grow site, they backed out of the woods and called the sheriff’s office.
The sheriff’s new Special Investigation Unit—made up of officers from several jurisdictions—went to search the area.
‘Awesome’ plants
The officers found four separate areas—each about an acre—that had been cleared to grow reefer, and they encountered about 600 6- to 8-foot-tall, high-grade, female marijuana plants growing in one of the areas, Christiansen said.
“Some, you couldn’t get your arms around,” he said. “They were very well tended, very well cared for. … The plants were awesome.”
In addition, they found a 2-foot mound of marijuana scraps, what Christiansen called “waste,” and about 11 pounds of processed marijuana.
They found a second tent—an obvious encampment—and two men who looked Latino.
The men, who officers suspect were there to tend and harvest the plants, took off running. Officers were not able to catch them or find a vehicle that they might have used to flee the area.
Officers first went to the site about 10 a.m. Aug. 23.
At 10:30 or 11 p.m. that day, a Milton officer saw two Latino males in dirty, tattered clothes walking near Highway 26 and Johnstown-Lima Town Line Road, Christiansen said.
But before the officer could stop and question them, they ran into a cornfield and escaped.
“We’re assuming they’re the same two,” he said.
Money to Mexico
At the grow site, officers found no weapons, booby traps or money, Christiansen and Spoden said.
But they found a cell phone, a notebook with names, phone numbers and PIN numbers and receipts for the transfer of money from the United States to Mexico, according to the search warrant documents.
“You’re seeing these type of grow operations all over the United States—California, Arkansas,” the sheriff said. “After 9/11, border security was greatly enhanced, so it was more difficult for smugglers to get marijuana and other drugs across the border.
“So they’re getting willing participants to come across the border for these activities. Obviously, this is a sophisticated operation not only able to bring in people but also the resources to build and maintain these areas.”
Officers had to use all-terrain vehicles to get into and out of the site, but they found no vehicles for the two men tending it.
The men had camouflaged their living tent with a dark tarp covered by foliage, and either they or another crew had stacked the foliage cleared from the grow sites to act as barricades, Christiansen said.
Officers found paths worn through the woods but not through the 6-foot-high marsh grass surrounding them.
The marsh grass was so tall that when officers walked through it, they could see only the tops of the trees in the woods, Christiansen said.
Besides marijuana, the men at the site were growing tomatoes and cucumbers.
Officers found a lot of empty Corona beer cases, Mexican food, a cooking stove, kitchen utensils and sleeping gear for two people.
‘Well disciplined operation’
Based on the evidence, investigators think the suspects are Mexican, Spoden said. “We know they are Latinos. We saw them.”
Investigators think that as many as three, possibly four, crews worked the site: one crew to clear it, another to plant the marijuana, the third, and perhaps a fourth, to tend and harvest the crop, Christiansen said.
Local investigators have no leads on how and where the pot was to be distributed or on the identity of the two fugitives, he said.
In addition, police have picked up no leads on which criminal gang provided the umbrella of resources and organization for the grow site or on any disruption in local marijuana distribution.
“So it was a very well disciplined operation with no prior knowledge or intelligence on the street,” Christiansen said. “What that leads us to believe is that these people were left out there and lived out there and didn’t have any contact with locals.”
Local investigators are talking to authorities in other counties about similar operations.
Although the growers had painted the tree stumps green and camouflaged parts of the operation, a savvy observer could have spotted the site from the air if he or she knew what to look for and where to look, Christiansen said.
But he doubted that widespread aerial reconnaissance would have found the growing site.
“The property owner and neighbors all around it were surprised,” Christiansen said. “The property owner hadn’t been there in years, but he allowed hunting.”
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The large marijuana farm found here in August apparently was the work of organized criminals and is similar to those discovered in August and July in Kenosha County and McHenry County, Ill.
Investigators from the counties have been comparing notes on the discoveries, and a summit of sheriffs has been discussed. Federal drug investigators also are aware of the massive reefer grows.
While local investigators in the various counties say they have no direct evidence linking the marijuana farms, the similarities lead them to suspect they are related, possibly the work of a single organized crime gang.
Latino men, probably Mexican immigrants, lived at and tended the sites. The farms involved hundreds to thousands of high-grade, transplanted plants in remote areas in or near woods and water.
Authorities pegged the value of each plant, had it grown to full size, at $800 to $1,250, so the farmers were growing marijuana that could have fetched millions of dollars on the street.
Kenosha County
In July, a farmer in Brighton Township in Kenosha County saw a man running through a cornfield. When detectives investigated, they chased but did not catch two suspects, but the cops found 5,200 marijuana plants, some in the field but most in woods adjacent to the field, said Sgt. Frank Iovine, head of Kenosha County’s controlled substance unit.
The men used a generator to power a pump and draw water from a nearby pond through pipes and hand-dug ditches to irrigate the plants, and they apparently carried water as well, Iovine said.
“This wasn’t junk weed,” Iovine said. “Had they brought it to harvest, they would have gotten top dollar.”
The two men dropped their wallets in the chase, and officers found Mexican driver’s licenses in them, he said.
As in Rock County, investigators in Kenosha County believe that different crews worked the grow sites at different phases: clearing, planting, tending, harvesting and processing.
“It’s a compartmentalized operation,” Iovine said, “so if you catch a tending crew, they might not be able to give you much information. We know they’re using Mexican labor, but we haven’t determined if it’s a Mexican gang. It could be an Anglo gang hiring Mexicans.
“Because each phase is compartmentalized, it’s difficult to trace back up the ladder.”
McHenry County
McHenry County officers arrested one man suspected of being a pot tender, Sheriff Keith Nygren said.
The suspect was Mexican. He told detectives he was hired at a Chicagoland mall by another man, who, the suspect said, was Latino but whose nationality was unknown, Nygren said.
“The guy we arrested was an employee,” the sheriff said.
Authorities discovered six or seven large grow sites in McHenry County in July and August, and evidence at four or five of them—such as tents, makeshift furniture and kitchens and portable showers—indicated that people were living there, Nygren said.
Four of the sites were big as football fields and could have been growing as many as 5,000 to 6,000 plants each. One of the big farms was made up of obviously transplanted plants, which, Nygren said, probably were started indoors in hydroponic tanks.
About half the growing sites were on public conservancy land, and all were found within a 4- or 5-mile-diameter rural area—usually near streams—not far from Wisconsin, Nygren said.
Officers in Kenosha and McHenry counties did not find any guns or booby traps at the grow sites this summer, but Nygren said his officers have found punji sticks—sharpened stakes—at pot farms in the past.
Walworth County
Although officials in three counties—Rock and Kenosha in Wisconsin and McHenry in Illinois—said they thought at least one similar sophisticated growing operation with an encampment was found in Walworth County, Capt. Dana Nygbor, head of detectives, refused to acknowledge it.
“I’m not going to comment on an ongoing criminal investigation,” she said.
In May, a Walworth County farmer discovered a cornfield with 400 to 500 young marijuana plants apparently growing from seeds, not transplanted plants, but investigators did not find evidence of anyone living there, Nygbor said.
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SOPHISTICATED OPERATION
Officials said the Lima Township marijuana farm was a sophisticated operation because:
-- It was isolated in hard-to-get-to terrain in woods near water.
-- It had four growing areas cleared of hundreds of trees by handsaws.
-- Tree stumps were painted green to avoid detection.
-- An estimated 2,400 high-grade plants were transplanted, not grown from seed.
-- They found paper cups holding baby plants painted green to avoid detection.
-- Each plant would have yield three-quarters to a full pound of pot. The value of 600 found plants was estimated at $750,000.
-- Tenders lived in a camp on site and used fertilizer, irrigation ditches and groundwater drawn from 2-foot-deep hole.
-- Several crews were believed to have worked the site at various stages: clearing, planting, tending and harvesting.
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POT PATROL
Rock County Sheriff Spoden encouraged rural landowners to walk their property and look for suspicious activity, such as marijuana growing.
If landowners, hunters, hikers or others encounter a site they suspect is being used for illegal activity such as pot-growing, they should not disturb it, Spoden said.
They should contact the sheriff’s office immediately.
Residents should be wary and careful around such areas because many marijuana-growing sites have been found to be booby-trapped with explosives and/or sharpened stakes. Guns and other weapons have been found at pot farms as well, Spoden said.
The traps and guns are not necessarily intended to dissuade law enforcement but to protect against competitors swooping in and stealing the valuable crop, the sheriff explained.
Although officials in three counties—Rock and Kenosha in Wisconsin and McHenry in Illinois—said they thought at least one similar sophisticated growing operation with an encampment was found in Walworth County, Capt. Dana Nygbor, head of detectives, refused to acknowledge it.
“I’m not going to comment on an ongoing criminal investigation,” she said.
In May, a Walworth County farmer discovered a cornfield with 400 to 500 young marijuana plants apparently growing from seeds, not transplanted plants, but investigators did not find evidence of anyone living there, Nygbor said.
Oct 20, 2008 at 1:23 p.m.
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Interesting piece, good investigation. Particularly interested to learn about punji sticks.
Oct 20, 2008 at 8:10 a.m.
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So the money they are making is going back to Mexico. NAFTA has hit the drug trade.
Oct 18, 2008 at 6:19 p.m.
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I had a dark haired dark eyed man that could possibly be a bit hispanic come to my door today asking if he could hunt our land.....I bet he is wanting to crop spot....hmmmmmm....wonder what I should do? LOL. I am so kidding about the hispanic thing, he was more Itailian looking......
Oct 18, 2008 at 6:16 p.m.
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EVANSVILLEHOUSE....you are a real downer, and take life WAY too seriously. If someone's decisions DON'T affect YOU PERSONALLY....you have to let it go. Your opinion you are entitled to, but judgement you are not.
Oct 18, 2008 at 5:48 p.m.
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At the end of your paragraph, hit the RETURN key, then the SPACE key, then the RETURN key again.
Oct 18, 2008 at 5:40 p.m.
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MathewWaters, that was such a fine and reasonable defense of pot smoking I came very close to going outside and rolling up some lawn clippings in a Papa John coupon.
And sweet..., stop being so mean to me, I brought you and thekid together, didn't I? You both owe me big-time.
Also, for paragraph breaks, just remember this: a "space" is a character, just like a "period" or a "letter" is a character. But not like thekid is a character.
Oct 18, 2008 at 2:04 p.m.
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That was another good post MatthewWaters! It's really cool that you can be honest about your opinions without worrying what everyone else is thinking. That you do it for you in your free time. I think the biggest reason people dont is because of what they've heard of it and the mentality they have about the people that do smoke. We keep getting called "potheads" like we just sit around all day and get high and much out with the TV on. Most everyone I know that smokes has a job and is a responsible member of society. And you are another proven person that if legalized it doesn't mean everyone will be high all the time. I believe MANY people would just like to enjoy it every once in a while. Me I like it everyday and I only do once my daughter is sound asleep. I've never gone to school or work high because like you I know what I can and cannot handle and I just couldn't handle that.
Oct 18, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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hey matthew good post. put a
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between your paragraphs an they should split:)
Oct 18, 2008 at 1:43 p.m.
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Is there some trick to keeping your paragraphs separate on this forum? The paragraphs are always separated when I do a preview but when I post there is never any space between them.
Oct 18, 2008 at 1:39 p.m.
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Gazettefan:
I kind of got tired of it. That, and my career started taking off, my family grew, and I had less and less time to mess with it. I'm a really busy man. I own my own business and If I'm not working I'm spending quality time with my family, hanging out with the wife, helping my kids with their studies, coaching their sports teams, etc.
Most people who smoke pot give it up or at least cut way down when they get older. I'm in my forties. I was 13 years old the first time I smoked it. I smoked a fair amount in high school, lots in college, lots when I was earning my advanced degrees, and quite a bit on nights and weekends during the first few years of my career. Having several kids put a stop to most of that though. I'll still do it every once in a blue moon, but I don't buy it or keep it around the house or hang out much with people who do it. If I meet up with some old friends in town for a class reunion or something or maybe if I'm at the lake on a long weekend or whatever I might do it if the opportunity presents itself, but for the most part I leave it alone.
I'm not really worried about getting caught, because I hardly ever do it and I don't put myself in situations where I'm likely to get caught. I've always avoided those situations and have never been much worried about getting caught. I'm the clean cut pillar of the community type. I live in a nice neighborhood, make good money, never get in trouble. I avoid trouble makers. I don't frequent bars or drink much at all for that matter.
I suppose it would be embarrassing to get caught but the likelihood of that happening is really next to none, and if I did get caught and they did actually charge me not much would happen to me. I'd pay the fine and go on.
When my kids grow up and I start working less I might do it a little more, but not that much. It does make me more forgetful if I do it a lot. It's also a waste of time. It's something I like to do only if I don't have important things I need to be doing that require me to be at my best mentally. I consider spending quality time with my family to be one of those important things, and I don't like to be under the influence of anything when I'm doing that. Pot makes me withdraw somewhat into my own little world. You aren't really spending quality time with others if you are in your own little world.
Every once in a while though on one of those rare occasions when I have free time all to myself, it's kind of nice to do get a little buzz. I don't like to get really stoned, just a little buzz. I'll play my guitar, paddle a canoe down a river, think and let my mind wander a little. As long as I only do it in moderation and under the right circumstances it is a very gratifying experience for me, one that I believe improves the quality of my life. I doubt I ever give it up entirely and if I do it certainly won't be because the government tells me I have to give it up.
Oct 18, 2008 at 1:37 p.m.
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Drug assasins?? Oh and Gfan trust me I was kidding about the chilling together thing. I don't think I would want to argue with you in person either. I am glad we can both agree on that!
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:38 p.m.
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Well, it looks like the band is back together, but I got to go out. ;~)
sweet..., I don't get into arguments in person. What's good about blogging is that it removes all or most of the pitfalls of in-person arguing. ;~)
;~)
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
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I'd be worried about drug-crazed assassins!!!
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:29 p.m.
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plus sweet the 'more' kids that do get it will still ultimately have it in their hands thanx to a regulated source(SAME AS ALCOHOL)...vs a 'drug' dealer with dollar motives...
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:26 p.m.
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weve debunked every other argument so i think thats pretty much all gfan has sweet...is the POTENTIAL exposure to kids. alcohol has been such a model drug as far as something an adult can choose while not having it be consumed by minors...that there is NO WAY the pot laws could ever compare;)
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:26 p.m.
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i like to enjoy wine with my breakfast!! so 1:42 pm to crack opoen a bev would be late for me!!
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:18 p.m.
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And what EXACLY is pots problem. I wasn't around for some of the other articles you and the kid were debating on. So I've never really heard WHY you think pot is so horrible. I've heard you mention keeping it out of kids hands which I totally agree with but again, legal or not they'll get it if they want it. I think legalization MAY make is a little easier for some kids but I honestly dont think for many and I dont think many kids will be trying it at any earlier of an age. I mean come on once you in high school, you can make your own decisions for the most part. They'll do it if they want to legal or not!!
Oct 18, 2008 at 12:13 p.m.
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Oh god!! I can't decide wether Gfan would make me geek out with all of his rants or bring me compltley down! I'm going to guess geek out though cause I laugh at some of the things you say WITHOUT pot! And again Gfan you said "MathewWater, a lot of illegal things have some degree of popularity, that doesn't necessarily mean we should legalize them."
To me that statement is comparing pot with other illegal drugs and honestly I cant really name one other illegal drug I would agree legalizing. I just used herion and coke as examples because those two pop into mind. But I could have used lots of other things; prescription pills, meth, inhalents, crack, mushrooms etc. Can you tell me which of these you WERE comparing pot to in your previous statement??
Oct 18, 2008 at 11:58 a.m.
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ok...ill chime back in gfan:) im in the best shape of my life physically, mentally, and financially. seriously. i do yoga several times a week and im not even sure how many miles i put on my blades this summer...ill just say enough(most of which were buzzed miles;). my hair IS beautiful...courtesy of my hempseed conditioner;) and the munchies can be controlled. drinkers can learn to drink. smokers learn to smoke. no better no worse. just the SAME. thats all gfan. its the SAME. pot/alcohol have good and bad features...but it mostly comes down to the individual. i believe you are 'all for personal responsibility' if i do recall. im in for a couple bong rips and some doritos with sweet. maybe...gfan...youd like to join us to see what were talkin about??
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good post sweet on the history of hemp b4;). you forgoto mention that this great country gfan and i love so much...printed the original declaration of independance on hemp paper...so one COULD say that it all began with pot:)
Oct 18, 2008 at 11:40 a.m.
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Good, then you both can admire thekid's hair which he so proud of. And a sad irony of pot is that it inherently doesn't include the calories that alcohol does. But it gives you the munchies, serious munchies. I'll bet thekid has put on a lot of pounds in recent years. thekid, let us know.
sweet...., you're saying that I'm saying that pot is as bad as heroin. I'm not.
What ever heroin and alcohol are doesn't change what pot is. Pot is its own problem.
Oct 18, 2008 at 11:24 a.m.
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Oh and Susan I love the post!!! Gfan is right about one thing you, the kid and I should have a pot smoking, dorito eating party!! They've got those super sized bags, we can all share.
Oct 18, 2008 at 11:23 a.m.
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Wow awesome way to dodge Gfan! You never answer any of the ?'s I ask. Wonder why?
Oct 18, 2008 at 10:08 a.m.
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sweet...., your post isn't precisely responsive enough to my post for me to comment on it beyond the writing of this sentence.
susan...., Did you write your post while high on pot? It isn't very pleasant. Write one when you're blitzed and let's see.
Also, you and thekid should try smoking reefer alone together in a room and see what a peaceful experience it is when he's got a death-grip on the Doritos!!!
Oct 18, 2008 at 9:57 a.m.
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Again do you really feel pot is as harmful as herion? You cannot compare the two JUST because they are both illegal especially when the conversation is mostly about the legalization of the substance. And what about this "drug war"? I mean you can honestly say that you think we are getting somewhere? You like spending BILLIONS a year on something that will NEVER stop. You can't stop the demand for pot, it's just impossible. As long as the human race is here there will be a demand for it. Also I dont think that someones reasons for quitting (whatever they may be) means that they have a negative view on smoking in most cases. Most people DO stop as they get older, some people cannot balence life and smoking so they quit. That's the responsible choice to make FOR THOSE PEOPLE. I think most people who want to smoke and could smoke responsibly dont because they could lose their job possibly or because they are scared of being caught buying it, something along those lines.
Oct 18, 2008 at 9:55 a.m.
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Wow, as an outsider reading the comments on this story, non-withstanding your entitlement to your opinions, this is an argument that cannot be won. Facts being ... pot, reefer ,ganga, dro, whatever you want to call it is NOT a drug persay. It is a beautiful, flowering God rearing plant that which if you happen to burn makes the world a HAPPIER place. It is not chemically altered, like heroin, cocaine, meth or any of that garbage. Its grown like tobacco, and even less chemically altered than tobacco. Who do you know who's ever smoked a blunt and gone out and killed someone or OD'd ? All I've ever thought about killing was a bag of Doritos! What about all the chemicals we ingest on a daily basis unknowingly? WWJD? Probably pick some dro, drop it in his pipe and SMOKE IT! Leave us pot smokers alone!! And those of you whom are "X" potheads, we don't care about your holier than thou attitudes, just because you quit doesn't make you any less an a$$#@!*. Who knows if it will ever be legal? Personally i don't care, I will take the measly $167.00 ticket for possession, or move to Dane County where at least there's some assimilance of compassion.
Oct 18, 2008 at 9:48 a.m.
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sweet...., comparisons and analogies are never perfect. The ones I used here are mainly to contradict the rationale for legalizing pot: A lot of people do something illegal therefore we should make it legal. Sometimes we do legalize something that used to be illegal. With pot, though, that brings us back to what pot is. The medicinal use of THC and the commercial use of hemp are separate from pot smoking. Then the wheel-spinning begins on how harmful or nonharmful pot smoking is.
To that point, maybe MathewWaters can tell us why he quit.
Oct 18, 2008 at 9:13 a.m.
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Oh and MattWaters, everything you have said has been awesome!! Just thought I'd give you some props!
Oct 18, 2008 at 9:05 a.m.
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You're right when you say that every illegal drug there is a demand for should not be legalized. I dont think that herion or coke should be available in a store, but do you really think pot falls into the same field as those others? That is what we are arguing here, that pot is "pretty much" a harmless drug, of course there will always be abusers but for the most part people can smoke sensibly. You cannot really tell me that you see herion on the same level as pot. You make all these outragous comparisons, first it was murder. You think that anything illegal is on the same level, murder is to THC possesion, herion to pot. Just because pot is illegal and something else is illegal does not put them together or mean they are equal offenses. Not at all.
Housewife, are you really that dense to keep bringing up the Kid's kids? Seriously, how would you feel reading that stuff. AGAIN, it's one thing to disagree but by saying the stupid stuff you have you're just showing how childish and immature you are, and a lot of other words I cant say on here without getting my post taken off. Stop your whole holier than thou routine because you're obviously not a very good person to be making stabs like that. Great you do foster care but in my opinion those kids seem better off with the Kid than with you if you're teaching them to have the same manners and respect for others!!
Oct 18, 2008 at 8:31 a.m.
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MathewWater, a lot of illegal things have some degree of popularity, that doesn't necessarily mean we should legalize them.
Pot should stay illegal probably for the reasons you quit smoking it.
Oct 17, 2008 at 11:45 p.m.
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gazettefan:
It is true that without demand there would be no commercial production of marijuana. It is also true though that if it wasn't illegal, we wouldn't have commercial production of marijuana in our forests or in rent houses or anything like that. Prohibition causes that, There are a lot of unintended harmful consequences to the prohibition of marijuana, just like we saw with the prohibition of alcohol. The demand is there. It's been high for decades and by now it should have dawned on us that that isn't likely to change. We know about the demand and have known about it for a long time, but as a society have chosen to keep marijuana illegal. There are negative repercussions to that choice. We should acknowledge that.
I can't throw a lot of blame around. I'm one of the more than 100 million Americans who has smoked pot. I smoked plenty of it when I was younger. If you are between the ages of 21 and 55, chances are you've smoked it too. More than half of all Americans between those ages have and quite a few older and younger than that have too. Even if we haven't smoked it in a long time we are all just as much to blame as people smoking it today.
Oct 17, 2008 at 9:51 p.m.
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What we have here is a undocumented farmer and a undocumented pharmacist just doing the jobs that Americans won't do. They just came here to make a better life for themselves and their families. :(
Oct 17, 2008 at 8:37 p.m.
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Actually.Crafty, the ammo SAVES tax, court, jail and insurance dollars by effectively dealing with home invasions. Toilet paper saves money by controlling diseases such as salmonella and e.coli, As far as a cell phone..... well, aside from saving lives by being able to call the police in an accident, it comes in handy. Pot just makes ya stupid.
And Kid, since you sent yet another, unread and summarily deleted private message, you've been filtered. Which means I won't even know next time you send something, unless you choose one of your other usernames. If you have something to say, say it here. If i HAD opened the messages, i would have posted them here anyway.
A cute story.... when my friend bought her farm, she found a pretty large patch of ditchweed (obviously not cultivated) in her pasture. She was going to bushhog it, but her horsies LOVED it and chewed it down to the stalks. I'm sure it had no THC, but those horses must have had some munchies,
When we called the vet, she just laughed and said it was harmless.
Oct 17, 2008 at 6:51 p.m.
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the article is pretty clear that no booby traps were found at this site or any other this summer, so what are the "rotten things" attached to this traffic? i guess the two farmers littered some empty beer cases.
Oct 17, 2008 at 6:29 p.m.
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As long as there is a demand for it there will be people willing to take the risk and supply it for a profit.
Oct 17, 2008 at 6:09 p.m.
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Matt...., as others have smartly said below, it is pot users who sustain the pot traffic and everything rotten thing attached to that traffic. It is the demand for pot that put the two "farmers" in that field. Let's get cause and effect straight.
Oct 17, 2008 at 5:11 p.m.
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Housewife, the ammo you spend away in your guns could serve the same purpose...Gas, toilet paper, cell phone bills. You name it, it's all a waste of money in someones eyes.
Oct 17, 2008 at 5:07 p.m.
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evansvillehousewife:
I'm sorry for not being more clear. I should have been more specific. I meant "illegal drugs," not just any drugs. The last time I saw an estimate from the federal government they said that between 12,000 and 25,000 tons of marijuana were available on our streets in a given year. Whether we look at supply or consumption estimates for illegal drugs, marijuana dwarfs all the others. Americans do consume more marijuana than all other illegal drugs combined. In my opinion the marijuana industry is the backbone of the illegal drugs trade. It is so prevalent everywhere. More of it is being produced than any other illegal drug, more is smuggled in and transported everywhere. The distribution networks are massive and they make perfect conduits through which to move other far more dangerous drugs. Often people selling small amounts of marijuana will sell the other stuff. The organizations the middlemen are getting their marijuana from will often offer them other drugs to sell as well and that's how so much of it is moved on to street level dealers and end consumers.
Oct 17, 2008 at 4:50 p.m.
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Sorry Kid.
Your direct message went straight to File 13, circular file, not read.
Go take another toke..... and try to forget that dime bag could have bought your kid a meal in college.
But, he/she will probably just end up smoking tons of weed like you anyway.
Oct 17, 2008 at 4:16 p.m.
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Yo Matt.... just want the source as to your statement 'Americans smoke more pot than any other drug combined.
First off, the only common frud I know that is legally smoked is Nicotine, and I expect that is the #1 smoked drug. But honestly, are you making the claim that more people take pot daily than ritalin or insulin?
Source, please.
Oct 17, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.
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As we tighten our borders we will only see more and more of this. The marijuana trade is a multibillion dollar industry. Americans consume more marijuana than all other drugs combined and Mexican organized crime supplies thousands of tons of marijuana to US consumers every year. The harder it becomes for the to smuggle it in, the more they will grow here. That's just a fact of life we're going to have to deal with.
Put me in the camp with everybody who says we need to legalize it and regulate it similar to the way we regulate alcohol. I don't like marijuana and wouldn't smoke it if it was legal. There are just too many good reasons not to do it. I personally doubt very seriously that there are many people out there just waiting for pot to be legal so they can finally smoke it. If people really want to smoke marijuana and all the other good reasons not to smoke it aren't enough to stop them from doing it, then the extremely remote possibility of getting caught and having to pay a fine or something isn't stopping them from smoking it. Marijuana is already easily available to people anywhere in this country. It's already cheap on a "per buzz" basis, cheaper than beer if you buy Mexican. The really expensive stuff isn't as expensive as single malt Scotch. Most everyone out there who wants to smoke marijuana is already smoking it. We're just wasting a fortune, spinning our wheels and not doing a lick of good. We're helping organized crime make billions of dollars a years that tax paying law abiding American farmers and businessmen could be making. Want this stuff out of our forests? Let farmers grow it, and let's regulate it similar to the way we regulate alcohol. Our kids will still get it, like they get beer today, but they'll be using fake ID's to get it or having older siblings or someone buy it for them rather than buying it from drug dealers who sell far more dangerous drugs too.
I am convinced that sooner or later we're going to legalize marijuana and while a lot of people will be panicking and thinking the sky is going to fall in or something at first, before long most will be wondering why we didn't do it a long time ago.
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:42 p.m.
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OK, let's leave out the unpatriotic thing.
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:29 p.m.
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Yes, luluberry....., annoying and unpatriotic too!!!
;~(
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.
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optimism!!! my god, your drinkin' post is time-stamped at 1:42pm!!!
;~)
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.
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Can anyone suggest when it'll be okay to wear my sombrero out in public again? ;~)
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:16 p.m.
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sweet..., right, I gave a reason, not an insult. If someone out-reasons you it feels like an insult but then you have to come back and take the other person's reasoning apart.
Apology appreciated, and furthermore I'll cop to taking a little liberty with your "don't smoke because it's illegal" post.
Some people say that pot smoking will reduce if it's legalized because the lure of rebellion will be gone. Your post means that the pot smoking would increase if legalized. I agree with that stance.
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:06 p.m.
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so, how did this discussion turn from being about illegals growing illegal substances in our backyard to talking about that annoying stoner? Just asking...
Oct 17, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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I never said thekid was "losing." I was addressing the circular nature of this debate, and the fact that you keep saying "if it was legalized, there wouldn't be drug dealers" and I keep saying there also wouldn't be drug dealers if people would stop doing the illegal drugs in the first place. I'm not suggesting that we will ever get everyone to stop doing drugs (that truly would be delusional), I'm trying to get you to see that YOUR actions and the actions of all other pot-smokers play a part in the bigger picture.
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Americans’ mentality in general that their personal satisfaction and pleasures are more valuable and therefore justified (even though they negatively affect others) is the biggest reason our country is in the state it currently is.
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If we weren't so selfish and always out for No. 1 "Joe Sixpack" wouldn’t sign for a loan that was way beyond his means, Wal-Mart execs wouldn’t demand lower prices that force companies to ship jobs overseas, business owners wouldn’t outsource tech jobs to India so they can line their pockets with profits, and Wall Street execs wouldn’t have traded away our economic stability so they could enjoy the high life.
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Sure, you're "just one person," but your actions play a part in the bigger picture, just like they can play a part in changing laws (the civil rights movement, for example, involved average Americans). So put down your bowl/joint, join forces with others like you (because, as posters have said, there are many) and start working to change the laws.
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So, I think I'm done here. I need to get off the circular-debate merry-go-round.
Oct 17, 2008 at 1:45 p.m.
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optimism, say it with me...
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There's no place like home
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There's no place like home.....
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(repeat as needed)
Oct 17, 2008 at 1:42 p.m.
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Hey. Is anyone else sick of seeing those stupid red ruby shoes flashing on the pages? I am about to have a seizure. I think I better go open a smirnoff. Evening news.....'Stay at home mom pops the top at 2pm.....would you trust your kids in her care?' hehe.
Oct 17, 2008 at 12:44 p.m.
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And again if pot became legal there wouldn't be those drug dealers and I do believe it would lessen crime in America. Of course it wont stop it or anything, there will still be REAL drug addicts with REAL problems such as herion and cocaine or prescription pills. If it were legal people could have their own plants or buy it in a store for gods sake. The goverment could sell better product for cheaper and drug dealers wouldn't be able to keep up. You dont see any drug dealers pushing whiskey anymore do ya? And again I do not think the kid left because he was "losing" because no.1 he's smart enough to know you cant "lose" on opinion. It may have something to do with all the bashing of his parenting skills, or the extremley rude people talking about his kids in foster care. This is a Gazette blog and YES it is for discussion and disagreements and even bashing other people but not their personal lives I mean their true personal lives like that. Say something about someones post or about their opinion on the topic but as I said before the things said to the Kid about his kids were over the line WAY over the line and I wouldn't want to be part of that either. I'd be willing to bet thats the real reason!
Oct 17, 2008 at 12:38 p.m.
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I'm just an average everyday american, it takes MANY to change a law. Especially one like this. I do think it will happen one day but until then I break the law. The world you want sounds great Bucky but I think you know that will NEVER happen. Youre right SOME americans dont know how to handle substances but there are far more and far worse alchoholics than potheads. I'm not those parents in the news a couple weeks ago making my kids smoke or anything. Like I said, you wouldn't sit here and bash a parent having a beer on a summer night like this! You've got a great plan, it's just dillusional!
Oct 17, 2008 at 11:09 a.m.
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I am not sure why I keep responding to kidiot. Apparently he doesn't know how to search the internet foR something he doesn't CARE about.
http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/marijua...
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijua...
http://www.acde.org/common/Marijana.htm
http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?acti...
http://teendrugaddiction.blogspot.com/20...
Oct 17, 2008 at 10:55 a.m.
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Ever get the feeling you're beating a dead horse? That's why thekid dropped out of this discussion. It's a no-win proposition. I agree, pot is not any better/worse than alcohol, but again, Americans on a whole are not responsible enough to handle either. I wish our society could somehow educate our youth and those who follow that alcohol can be enjoyed in moderation and is not needed in large quantities. I'm not sure how to get that message through to them. The party lifestyle is ingrained in our culture.
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But I do think it starts with us. We need to provide good examples to our children. And that starts with obeying the laws so that our children understand that ALL laws pertain to them (not just the ones that they like). If you don't like the drug laws, change them. But don't break them just because they're inconvenient to your lifestyle.
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Finally, as long as you continue to pay drug dealers for an illegal substance, you are part of the drug trade. And by doing so, you are also fueling drug crimes. Most dealers and suppliers don't just stop with marijuana. They deal everything. And where do those drugs come from? Gangs, drug cartels, etc. You, whether you want to admit it or not, are part of the problem. Change the laws so you're not, but don't keep justifying your actions while you're breaking the law.
Oct 17, 2008 at 10:27 a.m.
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Hey, checkout the public record for today. Burglary in the Johnstown Community Center. Probably the two Latinos!!!! HA!!!
Oct 17, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.
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Bucky, I commend you for refraining from drugs and alchohol. I think that that is great, I am not on here telling people that they should all be pot smokers. I am simpy saying that if we can drink alchohol we should have the right to smoke. Marijuana is only mental addictive, someone who wants to stop can. And I dont think I should be criticized for saying "if it makes you happy, it cant be that bad" I think thats a great way to live by if you WANT to live that way. I live my life for ME, and MY family which is my choice. I could be a selfish person and neglect my daughter while I'm in another room shooting something up my arm but I'm not that way and most pot smokers I know are not that way either. Your comparing a harmless drug to VERY harmful serious drugs and I think you KNOW they are not the same! Oh and I dont NEED mind altering drugs to make me happy either, I just like them!
Oct 17, 2008 at 9:28 a.m.
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I'm sorry you didn't use the word ignorant you said I could "effectivley deal with other's logic" which to me kind of implies ignorant. When I said history doesn't matter today it may have sounded wrong. I dont think that we should look at the past when making answers for the present or the near future but if you insist then your only backing my point of view. When this country started there was undeniably legal hemp. G Washington grew it. It was legal tender at one time. The first marijuana laws were laws REQUIRING people to grow it. The sails that got Mr. Columbus here were made of hempen cloth. The word canvas comes from the dutch pronunciation of cannabis.
Oct 17, 2008 at 9:18 a.m.
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Sweet, sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but if you read my previous post, you couldn't use the alcohol argument to call me a hypocrite. I said this:
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"You might show statistics of how legalizing marijuana is successful in other countries, but as the chronic abuse of alcohol in this country has shown, we as a culture are not responsible enough to use pot with restraint. While I know many people who are pot smokers and successful, productive members of society, I know of just as many who have gone the other way. It would be better if everyone refrained from BOTH alcohol and drugs to give them the high they could discover in other ways that don't involve ingesting mind-altering substances."
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You see, I don't have to tell my child to do as I say, not as I do about alcohol, because he wouldn't find me drinking. I don't need mind-altering substances to enjoy life.
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And you're right, the demand for drugs will never stop because drug users can't/won't give them up. The epitome of selfishness ... if it makes me happy, then I'll just ignore the laws and put on blinders about my part in the drug crimes being committed with my help.
Oct 17, 2008 at 8:46 a.m.
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Just to clarify though, the article said that there were no apparent booby traps.
Oct 17, 2008 at 8:09 a.m.
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sweet...., can you tell me where I called you "ignorant", I don't think I did. I rarely insult anyone here with name-calling. (When I out-reason someone sometimes they feel insulted then the direct insults come from them.) I called thekid ignorant because he throws that one around easily and he said something that truly fits the description of ignorant.
History doesn't haven't anything to do with the here and now?!!! Yes it does; we do not live a vacuum of time. Maybe pot heads do. Living in a vacuum of time might be one of the biggest features or symptoms of pot use.
You're anti-education claim that history doesn't mean anything now is consistent with your belief that my posts don't make sense. Your claim is also consistent with pot smoking.
When I disagree with someone it's because I disagree, just like you.
This large secret world of pot smoking that you and thekid speak of comes from the nature of pot smoking which fosters the poplar opinion of pot smoking. The popular opinion of pot smoking is not a mass misunderstanding.
You have me wrong re: having a civil discussion about anything. Your problem with me is that you're unaware of my history blogging here which goes to a previous point above: You're missing the whole point of my criticism of thekid.
Again, I don't think I called you ignorant.
Oct 17, 2008 at 7:20 a.m.
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Gfan, do you really truly believe that because I smoke pot I'm ignorant. Thats just showing again your closed mind and how IGNORANT you are! All you keep talking about it the past, past, past. This is a new day and people have and will adjust to that, it doesn't really matter what happened in the past 1/2 of which you name didn't even happen in the US. Besides studying History in school, it has nothing to with the here and now! And trust me I think everyone can tell from the post that the Kid wouldn't be scared off by you, your posts barely ever make sense. You just like to disagree with people and try to get people worked up, but thats a hard thing to do to a pothead, we are pretty chill by nature. I don't see why your all so concerned with OTHERS lives. I've already said pot and alchohol should be on the same level, both have cons, and pot has pro's, I don't really see pros in alchohol but somehow thats the legal drug. Again you dont know any "responsible" pot heads because they cant tell you, you would judge, some could lose their jobs. I do know a staff director at Mercy and his wife who is an RN, they live in a nice big house and have 2 good girls that both went to good colleges oh AND they smoke pot! You dont really seem like the type of person people want to open up too, your too judgemental. I think you should take some advice from Sheryl Crow "If it makes you happy, it cant be that bad". Of course dont twist this one again and say I'm saying its ok to murder. Of course there needs to be limitations but pot should not be one of them if alchohol isn't!
Oct 17, 2008 at 5:33 a.m.
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chelleandlou both you and i know that the do gooders would never allow this , the do gooders could hold this up in courts for years.this should have been addressed 20 years ago.
Oct 17, 2008 at 3:49 a.m.
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Apparently no one read my earlier post....I had suggestions on what do do.
Oct 16, 2008 at 8:20 p.m.
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The booby trap thing is scary. I hear beer companies booby trap their factories so they won't be found out. No wait, it's legal so they don't have to. If pot were legal booby traps wouldn't be necessary for the crops either.
I'm just trying to get at that I think pot being illegal makes far more problems than if it were legal. Yeah, there are the health concerns-but there are those for alcohol too (which is legal).
For real though-the booby trap thing is scary.
Oct 16, 2008 at 7:36 p.m.
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Awesome plants..are you kidding me? They say 600 plants yielding 3/4 to a full pound is worth only $750,000. Even if each of the 600 plants was worth only 3/4 pound or 12 ounces (7200 ounces total) that's only $104 per ounce. This is NOT Awesome pot. This is what grandpa Joe is smoking on his moldy couch in his hillbilly shack out of a metal pipe. By the way, who uses the word "reefer" anymore???
Oct 16, 2008 at 7:17 p.m.
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http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php
Oct 16, 2008 at 6:49 p.m.
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Let's be civil folks!
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:29 p.m.
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sweet......, the feeling of being twisted is going on in your head because you can't effectively deal with the other person's logic.
thekid bailed because the anti-pot comments were coming too frequent for him to handle. His act is an example of the withdrawal and avoidance that is many times symptomatic of pot smoking.
The back-and-forth on the pros and cons of pot and pot smoking are one thing but blaming us for being attacked by other countries is something very much deserving of a verbal beating.
thekid likes to throw around the insult "ignorant." Anyone who makes the statement he made below is truly ignorant. He admits to being post-literature. If any one is walking around in a fog, it's him. He knows nothing about what it took to start this country and keep it going. He knows nothing about the forces in the world that would have us and the rest of the world as slaves to Nazism, Communism, or Islamo-fascism. All he can do is complain and nitpick about the fact that the world isn't exactly the way he'd like it to be. Very childish.
He'll be back again to show us how ignorant he is.
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:08 p.m.
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AND the doctor is from Chicago....things that make you go hmmmmm?
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:07 p.m.
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EKIM...this was right behind my grandma's house and she is in her eighties!! THe land it was on belongs to a doctor who is NEVER there. Now you tell me this wasn't researched??? I am just thankful my grandma wasn't out walking and found this, and it was her neighbors instead. SCARY!
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:04 p.m.
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GAZETTEFAN....ewwwww...you are a downer. Who asked for a history lesson??? hehehe. This is just another topic that will go nowhere, and none of us should lose any sleep over it unless of course one of you gets caught with it and goes to jail...well then you might lose a little sleep over it. I will stick with my smirnoff ice and bush light. BUT! I won't drink and drive....promise.
Oct 16, 2008 at 5:01 p.m.
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boy these comment sections go off don't they? Number one, who calls it reefer? I haven't heard that one since the '70's. Number two, the only reason we knew it was there was because someone stumbled on it, so chalk one up for the local constables, right? I'm so glad the war on drugs is working. Number three, people will always want to smoke/drink/inhale/shoot up all kind of things. We have since the dawn of civilization. As a parent, I don't want my children to experience the dead end that is drugs, but the same goes for alcohol. I see no difference.
The most disturbing issue is the booby traps. I don't think there is much to do but be more vigilant if you own land, and be careful of who you meet in the woods. It's a sad day, but is something that many parts of the country have been dealing with for years.
Oct 16, 2008 at 4:59 p.m.
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Like I've said before Bucky we all know that pot has it's downsides. It's a drug, no one is denying that. I can say to my YOUNG kids do as I say not as I do. We do that for many many things!! When your at home having a beer youre being a hypocrite just as much as I am. Look at yourself before your so quick to judge. Thats all I have been saying is that pot and alchohol should be considered on the same level AT LEAST, if not pot it safer and better! I'm not saying all drugs should be legal just because people want to do them but like we've said before we are wasting our time trying to stop these people and yes they took down this ONE crop but more and more will come and more after that. It will NEVER stop and you will NEVER stop the demand for the product! Thats dillusional!! Exactly what happened with prohabition!
And as far as the Kid leaving the conversation, I DO NOT think it has anything to do with you gfan since I know he's at home laughing at most of what you say because it's all so far fetched and your full of "what if" questions, someone earlier accused you of twisting words to your advantage and so far thats all I've seen you do too. Your argueing just to argue, I dont even think YOU believe what YOU are saying anymore. I've seen you agree with things the Kid has said, it's like you guys are best buds that hate eachother!! He left I'm sure because this is what. . . the 10th or 20th article this same convo has happened on. He has said his opinion MANY MANY times and I'm sure it gets a little tiring saying the same things over and over when the people your saying them too are acting like CHILDREN with their hands over their ears screaming "I"M NOT LISTENING"!
Oct 16, 2008 at 4:25 p.m.
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thekid smartly bailed because he sensed I was coming back.
Hey, pal, who defeated Nazi Germany and kept the Third Reich from taking over this country and the world? And who destroyed the plans of Maoist China and the Soviet Union for taking over this country and the world? People who drink alcohol did. Explain to us why you would say we caused those regimes to wage war of one kind or another on us.
Interesting how the hate America movement with the perverse narcissistic projection of self-contempt of self-hating Americans goes hand-in-hand with the spread of pot use and the attack on this country on 911.
If we were all pot smokers during this time, this country and this world would be a very different place. You know nothing about the world you live in. You are a child. That explains your pathological self-absorption.
Like all children you need to be protected. Appreciate it!
Oct 16, 2008 at 4:07 p.m.
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