edsci= Clueless on this and many topics.

edsci...if there was a CRIME behind the Valerie Plame affair why did Fitzgerald not find it? And no, scooters conviction was not the CRIME behind the so-called "Way to sell out your country."

Let's see Georgy boy condones torture, detains citizens without trial, eavesdrops on Americans without lawful warrants and you have Obama guilty because the Rodman supported him. Should we start going through all the felons who have supported Georgy Boy? Like the people who betrayed a CIA agent by revealing her identity. Or did you forget about that? Way to sell out your country.

This is getting fun to watch. Obama is real good at the bob and weave.

Ha ha now the Gov. Of Illinios (an Obama supporter and associate) is under investigation. WOW!!! This Obama is just full of surprises and he's not even in the Whit House yet. Is this the "change" that he was talking about?

Obama is supposed to be the savior. Now he's saying that it's going to get WORSE before it gets better. I'm sure 80% of the people that voted for him weren't aware of this.

President Bush has made some mistakes in his Presidency but, he has also been a good leader. A steadfast leader with great character. I happen to be a democrat. I never voted for George W. Bush. I have said some terrible things about him and was always the first in line to dispute the war and the wiretapping issues. But, he has been very gracious with President-elect Obama in making a smooth transition to the White house. I would have to say that is very nice to see. We are all Americans and we need to work as a unit to become the America we can all be proud of. Obama will make his mistakes.

It is amazing to watch the Dem's now say "Give it up and support"...when for the last 8 years most have not.

At least we knew Bush is an American born citizen.

We couldn't get over Bush whining for years.

Whythink when Obama was running experience wasn't an issue. It's just funny how he said he was for "change" and all we are getting from him are recycled Clinton aides.

I never knew "Chicken Little" had so many Republican cousins. Give it up and do your patriotic duty to help this country of ours.

People couldn't get over Bush winning for years.

Lets get this off of the website. He won, deal with it.

redder: Geesh! Talk about rants! Get a grip. The USA economy is in the toilet. Mr. Obama has not even been officially elected yet, but you seem to be blaming him for what may happen in the future. Check out December 15th. Evidently your way didn’t work and the VAST majority in this great country finally woke up and said we need to go in a different direction. I voted for Barack Obama and I hope that he will help pull us out of this mess that we are in. The key word is, “HOPE”. He hasn’t even taken office yet and your negativity seems to have written him off already. Please, at least, give him a chance.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Next year we can wait in line with our ration coupons and freeze while our kids wonder why Obama killed Santa Clause. Don't worry though, because those that are left making any money will be right there to share with you. I'll bet the Obama kids get thier presents, or do they celibrate Quanza. I am confused on that one.

justsonotomath

Maybe you should have said yes to math or at least to school. Are you kidding me. Gas is cheaper sure but that has nothing to do with Throwbama. The rest of your rant is completely stupid as well, the war is almost over sure, and thank god, but that has nothing to do with Obama, nothing at all unless he called some of his kinsman and said " hey guys I'm elected you can stop now" I certainly do not see unemployment going down. Probably be in double digits by this time next year. I certainly do not see him doing anything else but appointing cabinet members. What has he come up with, appoint more people and talk about nothing. I am sure when you are laid off you will soon see that all of my previous posting is starting and starting now. How many do you know that have lost jobs. I am sure many more are comming. Pull your head out of your (you know were) and look at whats going on around you. Your right the election is over with, and your right it was a joke. The press bought a president, lets see if he is all you think he is.

Next time someone accuses the Gazette of being part of the Liberal Media remember that this ridiculous, character assassination, opinion piece was allowed to get over 1000 comments and pop up on the front page for 7 weeks.

Spanky, what was President Obama suppose to do?

The last democratic president before President Clinton was 1976-1980 (President Carter). If President Obama is going to put together a cabinet with experience it is going to come from the Clinton adminsitration. If he hadn't selected people with experience in the Clinton adminstration you would be criticizing him for selecting a bunch of friends without the necessary experience to solve the problems created by the Bush administration.

So what would you prefer? No experience or experience.

Try to be a little fair when analyzing and evaluating President Obama.

BTW, has anyone heard the unbelieveably idiotic comments from the right calling the recession the "Obama recession"? Can you believe people like Rush and Hannity actually have so little faith in the intelligence of the American people that they are trying to sell the economic troubles of today as the "Obama Recession"?

Funny how the recession of 2001 was all Clinton's fault and the recession of 2008 is Obama's fault. The only thing these two recessions have incommon is President Bush. Rush and Hannity would never point that out.

Clintons third term=CHANGE LOL what a joke.

And now the change we can beleive in: The Clintons will once again be in office!!!! and all their cronies as well, boy this is change! Get ready to empty your wallets and maybe give up more of our rights! CHANGE WE CAN BELEIVE IN!!!!!! Give me a break!

He seems to be backing off the whole taxing the rich now. He's good at the backstroke.

Oslama Bin Taxama

Thankyou garyprimer! Nothing could be better than that!

Congratulations, you are the 1000th poster. Your prize is absolutely nothing.

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion, I just thought it would be cool to be the 1000th post for this thread.

It will just be Clinton's third term. No change. The obamamaniacs had the wool pulled over their eyes.

They will say that it is all Bush and the Republican's fault, of course, and many of you will agree with them. As for people still posting on this blog, it is not compulsory reading and if you take a quick look in a mirror, you might be surprised by one of the posters. :-)

Daschel, Biden? Is this the change Obamanites were looking for?

WOW, nice that we have such informative posters, with such high intellect as justsaynotomath. All you Obama supporters should be happy such mental giants are on your side!
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The real question is what will all these acumen minds be saying when the economy sinks into depression under the venerable Democratic leadership? It will be rather amusing to see how capricious their attitudes become then!

I agree term limits would be great. These people get into office and are there way to long they loose focus of what real people believe and want. Maybe a required retirement age of 72 could be enacted.

So my continued stance FOR term limits to rid our government of power brokers from the two party system is your view of my supporting republicans?

Because there has been so much rational thinking from both parties as of late.
Get with it, RetiredAirForce. You're constantly pissing and moaning about Democrats, but never take any responsiblity for your own party. If anything, they're just as much to blame. Your way of thinking is a big part of the problem.

justsaynotomath = the rational behavior many republicans expect from the incoming house/senate/administration leadership.

Yeah Obama the chosen one. Going to save the world. Well we had to have Jimmy Carter to get Reagan so I guess you take the good with the bad. We now have the most inexperienced President elect we have ever had. Well see how that works out. I bet Al Queda are licking their chops.

lakennedy...WMD was "a" reason not "the" reason. Again, if you read the Doctrine(s) you continually refer to you would know this. Revisionist history views does not change the true facts.

OMG people! HE WON! GET OVER IT...

Indeed they did. To find all of those WMD's. How's that going, by the way?

Your right Milan- The US congress gave President Bush the authority to go into Iraq.

RetiredAirForce:
Are you suggesting that our second invasion of Iraq was in response to: "What country was firing at our warplanes from 1992-2002?"
Really?
So, what you're saying is that after being attacked by not ONE Iraqi on 9/11, in response to the horror of 9/11 we went into Iraq beause their country had been firing at our warplanes? Really? I never wrote that I was "so schooled on the Bush Doctrine", but at least I knew that there was only one, whereas you,yourself, wrote "Which of the MANY Bush Doctrines..." There are many facets of the doctrine, but just to remind you (again) there is indeed only ONE. Your comment is comparable to someone saying "Which of the many constitutions would you have had her spoke on"?

Obama is going to run this Country into the ground. He has proposed 10 trillion in new spending. I can't get behind a guy like that. And where is all this "change" he was talking about he is just recycling Clinton staff. The inexperience of this man is starting to show.

All of this talk is now HISTORY! Not to say it's not an issue that effects now. Here's the thing. Barack Obama is now the next president. The leader of the U.S. of America. The man who said he's going to lead this country into the future. Who's going swallow their "pride" (like me for instance) and get behind Obama and get this thing done like he claims can be done??? He said it himself during his acceptance speach. "I can't do this alone, I'm going to need your help" He's right. We need to get behind the man and move forward. It won't happen if we're constantly bickering with each other about the past! We can't change it....however, we can certainly LEARN FROM IT! The effectiveness of our next president and the things we can do as citizens of this country will hinge on ALL OF OUR abilities to LEARN FROM THE PAST and clean up the mistakes that have gotten us to where we are today. We can argue until we're dead and it won't get us any closer to where we need to go. I choose to be part of the solution! I pray all of us can come to a common ground and get this done. I believe in all of you.

At least we have a President-elect who knows what a coke line is and how to roll a joint.

This is so absurd "No Iraqi's attacked us". Well, I am pretty sure they all were not Afghani, yet you don’t seem to be complaining about our military in Afghanistan. Question: What country was firing at our warplanes from 1992-2002? Answer: Not Afghanistan. For someone that is so schooled on the Bush Doctrine the thought process behind the invasion of Iraq should not be so hard to understand.

Zoom- He was a threat to our allies. He invaded Kuwait before he would surely do it again. He had twelve years to comply to the UN resolutions. He didn't comply. President Bush also stated before we went in that there will be a regime change in Iraq.

Zoom,
You're right, and I never noticed that point. When discussing the war and the motivations behind going to it, everyone always says "What, would you rather that we just let the Iraqi's live under that dictator"? But you're right, we didn't go over there to liberate anyone, we went over in response to an attack on America. Guess how many Iraqi's were involved in that attack?
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What I find interesting is the denouncing of Russian invasion of Georgia. Sure, it's not a good thing, but what business does the U.S. government have denouncing that? I mean, what exactly did we do in Iraq? We invaded it, without having been attacked by anyone from Iraq.

Those weapons were no threat to the U.S., or even Iraq's neighbors. The reason given to invade Iraqi was NOT to liberate the Iraqi people. We invaded on a threat to the U.S. and the world that did not exist.

Zoom he did have WMD's and used them on his own people. That's why he is dead now because the Iraqi people put him on trial for his actions against his own people.

I stated "what if" being a hypothetical question. You didn't answer it at all.

Zoom…it is very naive to think “the whole world” only had intelligence we supplied.

Bush was convinced to go to war by Chaney and Rumsfeld. The "whole world" only had the intelligence we showed them, which was weak. Not all countries wanted to invade (remember the "coalition of the willing", of which only the U.K. and Australia committed troops?), because they were not convinced there were WMD's, and there was no strategy for what we would do once we invaded...turns out they were right.

"...what if we didn't go into Iraq with the same intelligence we had at the time and 5 years down the road Saddam used those WMD's..."

THERE WERE NO WMD'S!!! If we didn't invade Iraq, we wouldn't be spending $12 billion a month on a war, we wouldn't have almost 4,200 U.S. military deaths and over 30,600 casualties (not to mention the tens of thousands of civillian deaths, and the untold mental costs to our soldiers coming home), and Bush wouldn't be viewed as the worst President in recent history, which is how this whole discussion started in the first place.

Zoom- It's real easy to play Monday morning quarterback and point out what went wrong and why they did this and not that. President Bush didn't have that luxury when deciding to go into Iraq. He had the intelligence given to him just as the whole world had. He had to make a decision in the best interest of our Country. The whole world thought Saddam had WMD's. I guess you could play Monday morning quarterback on the other side and question what if we didn't go into Iraq with the same intelligence we had at the time and 5 years down the road Saddam used those WMD's on one of our allies or us. Would you still think it was a good thing to not go into Iraq and disarm Saddam? Our mindset changed after 9/11/2001 we couldn't wait and see anymore. We had to react to intelligence that we had to threats. Saddam had plenty of time to come forward and let the UN inspectors do their jobs. I think if it wasn't for the Oil for food scandal things may have been different. As for Democrats raising the price of oil I don't think you can really blame anyone party for that. I do think we should have drilled for oil in our own County years ago. Just look at our culture and where it has gone. Our population has risen and more people are driving cars. Fifty years ago the average home had a one car garage. Now homes are being built with 3 and 4 car garages. But, yet we didn't see this coming? The democrats have blocked us from drilling here. The excuse is well it wouldn't make an effect for 10 years. Well, with that reasoning we would never get anywhere. So what in 10 years we will have more oil and be better off in the future. Until we can replace our need for oil we should be able to drill for our own resources and look for alternatives. I also think GM and the other auto companies are to blame. They saw the price of oil and gas rising but, still continued to make the big SUV's. The demand for those vehicles didn't fall overnight. It has been in the works for a long time. Not the average person can afford a $50,000 vehicle that costs $100 to fill up every week. I guess they figures that if they got into trouble uncle Sam and the taxpayers would bail them out. Well here we are.

On a side note, the day after Obama won, the IL pick 3 numbers were 666.
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WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

Some of our conservative bloggers feel the need to cut and paste. Hey dubber, if you cannot say in your own words, don't bother. Billie, Kleej, and Whybe, I may disagree with your viewpoints, but I respect your original thoughts. Thank you for sparing us from cut and pastitis.

I don't know. Maybe it’s just me, but I find it to be so sad that some of the “extremists” here can’t even speak for themselves. They seem to have a need to steal the words of others, read that as plagiarism, because they can’t think on their own. In this Blog that never seems to end, can somebody please give these people a dumb-slap and wake them up? All “Conservatives” are not “bad” and all “Liberals” are not “bad”. Hey! We live next door to each other. We have our differences in politics, religion, race, education, health care, taxes, places where we shop, favorite restaurants, who delivers our newspapers, even who we can even fart in front of, (sorry about that one) but we are all in this together. Different points of views are crucial to our existence but there comes a time when we have to decide if we are just part of the problem or if we want to work toward the solution. I understand that there is a lot of anger and I have some myself, however constant bickering and the refusal to coexist will not solve the problem.
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Just my opinion.

And what's with this new fad of cutting and pasting entire articles, without summary or reference? Are you folks trying to look smarter than you are, or is it just laziness?

whybesad: The RESULTS of poor decisions and greed by many people took years to crash the housing market and the economy. The Democratic majority were not responsible for the spike in fuel prices that effectively killed the SUV market. The Democratic Congress didn't trigger this calamity the second they took the majority. I wish your simpleton explanation for things were true, because then they would be much easier to solve.

It is now widely known that Saddam wanted IRAN to think he had WMD's. Once again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

"(CNN) -- Saddam Hussein let the world think he had weapons of mass destruction to intimidate Iran and prevent the country from attacking Iraq, according to an FBI agent who interviewed the dictator after his 2003 capture.

According to a CBS report, Hussein claimed he didn't anticipate that the United States would invade Iraq over WMD, agent George Piro said on "60 Minutes," scheduled for Sunday broadcast.

"For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that (faking having the weapons) would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq," said Piro."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/27/saddam....

Oh, and in my previous post I mentioned you had a gift for writing. Apparently I should have written a gift for stealing.

By the way, proudfighter, either your name is John Yuma, or you are one hell of a plagarist. Here is a direct link to your last post copied and pasted. WTF?
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http://www.newshorn.com/forums/viewthrea...
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Whatever you have to say about the liberals on this page, at least they're not thieves. If you want to quote someone, do it. Don't steal their work and put it off as your own.
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If you are John Yuma, nevermind.

Proudfighter: He did win. Perhaps one or all of those reasons are why. Perhaps you need to realize that those ideas, or a portion of those ideas sound pretty appealing to the majority of people who voted. Unless, of course, you are more comfortable with labeling those who voted for Obama as being ignorant. Perhaps you need to take a long look at your fellow countrymen and listen to what the majority of them are saying. Listen to what they want. While their viewpoints may differ from yours, they still matter. The way I see it you have two options: One, you can continue to contemplate and question why people voted for Obama, or two, you can start becoming an active participant in what the newly elected government plans to do. If you aren't happy with the proposed legislation, call Congressman Ryan, call Tammy Baldwin, etc. to let them know. You do have a voice, and a gift for writing, why not use it?

You decide which option you think is more proactive.

Would Obama have won if people believed he might well nationalize health care, unilaterally disarm our nuclear weapons, push the Global Poverty Act, appoint judges to the left of Ruth Bader Ginsberg, pass legislation banning handguns, greatly increase federal spending by euphemistically disguising it as a stimulus package, increase taxes on producers and expand "redistribution," impose limitations on private executive salaries, empower labor unions, further nationalize public education with the leftist indoctrination agenda of the National Education Association, further open our borders, ratify the Kyoto climate change treaty, abandon Israel, retreat and surrender in Iraq, dramatically reduce the defense budget, possibly reinstate the draft in the name of racial equity, nationalize our private 401(k) funds, abuse governmental power to target and investigate dissent from ordinary "Joes," and implement the Fairness Doctrine to shut down political dissent from his talk radio critics?

Zoom when was the economy going so bad? It has only been the last 2 years. How about the whole WMD thing if he didn't have any why did he ignoe the resolutions for 12 years if he had nothing to hide and was so innocent? Come on zoom wake up. That kool-aid is not working for you.

The idea that the economy was sound right up to the second Democrats took control of the Congress is silly. It took years of bad desisions and greed to snowball into an avalanch.

And you forgot about the whole WMD thing, of which there were none. That was the lie that our unintelligent President and VP sold to everybody.

Another Epic Fail by whybesad.

Mooshoo again I have to show you that the economy started to go in the "toilet" as you like to say about two years ago. The same time the Democrats took control of the congress. It's just going to get worse but, I'm sure you will still blame President Bush for it. That's pretty much you lefties know how to do.

MooooShooo- You may want to look at why we went to war in Iraq. It was because Sadam made an agreement in 1991 to end the first war in Iraq. Maybe your to young to remember this. The US made an agreement with Saddam to end the war. He failed to meet those agreements for 12 years. The only one to blame for the war is Saddam Hussein himself.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/...

whybesad - I am really glad you are "stayin the course" with with W. I assume you are refering to the tax cut where he squandered millions to send us a letter telling us we are getting a rebate? Oh yes, you also refer to the pre-emptive war policy, know as the Bush Doctrine. Its the same doctrine that Sarah dumb as dirt Palin did not know anything about. Presidents like George W. Bush need to make up doctrines like that in order to legitimize going to war when there lying and deceit do not work. And don't wrap yourself in the flag over Iraq and claim to be humanitarian when there is dozens of tin pot dictators all over the globe maltreating their citizens. Where was George to protect those poor souls? And I know you are joking about the steadfast leadership comment. He lost track of what 9/11 was all about. He forgot about Bin Ladin!!! Furthermore, in case you have not noticed, the economy is in the toilet thanks to George Worthless Bush and his cronies. You say he "made a few mistakes"? That is the understatement of the century. Your dellusional if you think history is going to be kind to Bush.

Zoom: He also gave no credit to the original author either, even though at the bottom of the original article it states, "COPYRIGHT 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE INC."

ProuFighter11 said: "To answer your question, I will stand behind my President no matter what. Regardless of how bad it gets."

Then cuts and pastes an entire article from this nutcase:
http://www.creators.com/opinion/david-li...

mooshoo- never mind the 7 million jobs the Bush administration helped business create. Never mind the tax cuts that helped every single working American who paid federal income taxes. Forget the millions of people freed by grasps of a brutal dictator. Forget the steadfast leadership of this man during the worst terrorist attack on American soil. Forget that Iraq is having free and fair elections and is now a democracy. Forget that there hasn't been a terrorist attack since 2001. Forget that freedom is taking roots in such places as Iraq and Afghanistan where nobody though that could ever take place. Sure he has made his mistakes just as Obama will. I'm sure history will be kind to President Bush.

President Grant was far worse, way more corrupt and genocidal.

George W. Bush will go down in history as the worst of the worst Presidents. He squandered the cold war peace dividend, surrounded himself with right wing ideologues and never understood as President, he needed to govern. Instead, he bullied the country with his right wing extremist views and tinkle down economics. That was just the beginning. His A.G. peed on the constitution, he lied to the nation in order to go to war, he declared mission accomplished on an colossal trillon dollar failure, he spent federal dollars like a drunken sailor, he turned his back on New Orleans in a time of unprecedented disaster (Nice job Brownie!), and he presided over the meltdown of the economy of epic proportions. His party was bought and paid for by K-Street lobbyist. If some conservatives wish to blame Democrats and Barak Obama for the lack of leadership and failures George W. Bush, keep it coming. It will guarantee that the Republican Party retains its rump status for many years to come.

With his ideas about spreading the wealth, entrepreneurial selfishness, the ongoing "original sin" in our Constitution, the inherent evil of corporations, nationalized health care, and the civil rights movement not doing enough to bring about "economic justice" -- a euphemism for "Marxism" used by radicals, such as Bill Ayers, who still hate America -- are you not concerned at just how far Obama might go now that he's got a nearly veto-proof Democratic majority at his back?

With his known discomfort with American exceptionalism, his naive mindset about good and evil in the world, his reckless underestimation of threats to America, his stated intention to disarm our nuclear weapons unilaterally, his open-borders extremism, his willingness to relax our intelligence monitoring, and his misguided concern for terrorists' rights, how can America be as secure under his watch?

With his sordid background in "community organizing" and his symbiotic relationship with an organization that is engaged in a systematic effort to steal this election, his thug tactics to investigate and silence his critics, and his Democratic colleagues' willingness to use government to shut down conservative talk radio, are you not worried about our liberties under an Obama administration?

The propaganda triumvirate -- Democrats, the liberal media and leftist bloggers -- have portrayed President Bush, Vice President Cheney and America as dark and evil forces and have whipped the country into a frenzy of desperation, setting the table for a charismatic leader to deliver us from the despair they've manufactured with relentless precision. Barack Obama, with his mysterious past and messianic aura, then burst upon the scene with the focused purpose of capitalizing on the public's perceived woes by offering dramatic change and unspecified hope. As if the script had been written just for him, he stepped right into his role, expanding on this theme of despair. He stressed how bleak conditions are, how unfair America is to the less fortunate and middle class, how ugly America is in foreign affairs, how the values of average Americans are warped (bitter clingers), how hardworking producers who oppose confiscatory tax rates but who contribute more to charity than Obama and his running mate even contemplate are selfish, and how America is a global environmental menace.

With all respect, almost everything about Obama's campaign is fraudulent. He masquerades as a uniter while dividing, polarizing and alienating us. He denies he's liberal, when objective sources score him as the most liberal senator. He says he barely knows militants and radicals with whom he has spent his lifetime cavorting and whose worldviews -- horrifyingly -- he shares. He brazenly disguises welfare redistributions as tax cuts. He and his surrogates keep changing his tax plan.

The prospect of a Barack Obama presidency makes me very nervous.

Obama's entire campaign has been based on the need for radical, transformational change, which implies there is something very wrong with America.

It's hardly surprising, then, that he has painted the bleakest picture of America instead of acknowledging, as a starting point, that we are still the greatest nation in the world.

For the past eight years, Democrats have slandered America as an imperialistic country that always prefers force to diplomacy; that attacks nations without provocation to enrich itself and to project its power; that intentionally targets civilian lives; that encourages sadistic torture of enemy prisoners, as opposed to tough interrogation techniques to extract information to save the lives of its people; that eavesdrops on private conversations among its citizens rather than monitoring terrorist communications into its borders; and that abuses rather than goes out of its way to accommodate the savages in Guantanamo's prison. None of it is true.

For eight years, Democrats have poor-mouthed the mostly growing economy. They've lied that Bush's tax cuts for all income groups were only for the wealthy and that the cuts reduced revenues. They pretend to be deficit hawks, when Obama's new spending plans alone will make Bush look like Scrooge. They said Bush wanted to destroy Social Security, when he's the only one in the past 20 years who had the courage to try to reform it. All lies.

They've preached bipartisanship while exhibiting the nastiest partisanship in my lifetime, calling Bush "King George III," "Hitler," a "murderer," a "war criminal," a "reckless cowboy," a "moron" and a "Christian throwback." They've caricatured Bush as an unbending partisan who wouldn't reach across the aisle, in the face of his countless and mostly rebuffed bipartisan overtures and legislation. More disinformation.

They've deliberately divided this nation on the basis of race, class, gender and religion while telling us, falsely, that conservatives are racists, greedy, sexists, homophobes and religious bigots.

Thanks for speaking up on my behalf Proudfighter, but I could care less what Nvgrf thinks. This person is obviously one of the many who hate conservatives.
I served my country for the people who work hard like I do, not self serving losers who wish to better themselves with someone elses elbow grease.

Who are you Nvgrf, to call anyone here unpatriotic? Just because our views about the good of our country are different from yours? We should all be the same huh? How wonderful that would be!
If you were referring to me or Crafty, I am ashamed for you. It is pure ignorance to call someone who fought for you in two wars unpatriotic! Shame on you!
To answer your question, I will stand behind my President no matter what. Regardless of how bad it gets.

Oh yeah, He is going to put gas in my car and help pay my mortgage, said one exited supporter before the election. Good luck!

Retired Air and Boston Bill~
Amen my friends. Spoken like two people with great wisdom! I'm lock step with both of you. President elect Obama is OUR next president and regardless of my feelings either way towards him, I will respect him and rally behind him. I want this country to win! God bless President Obama and the United States of America!

Bill, you are correct, "United we stand, Divided we fall." It is just shameful for those on both sides that do not truly understand this. Political dissent of ideas is what this country was founded on, but dissent of ideas is far from what our country has witnessed during many (during the past 2 decades) Presidential elections. The attitude of those on both sides stating “he is not my President” or “I hope he fails” proves party politics is what drives this country…shameful is the nicest word I can say.

There are so many legitimate concerns in these posts from both “sides” regarding the recent election and where we may be going as a country. There have been some posts that could be considered out of line concerning the race of our President-elect, but I refuse to address that ignorance. I WILL say that regardless of our political affiliations, we are truly blessed with the right to vote for whomever we want to vote for. In every election, one candidate wins and one candidate loses. The constituency who wins is happy. The constituency who loses is angry. No surprise there. My point is that we, as citizens and believers in the USA, must put our differences aside and work together to rebuild our nation. I know that may sound somewhat cliché, but it is truly important for all of us, probably now more since the Great Depression, to unite once again and get through this trying time. Please, whatever your feelings are at this moment, DON’T give up on the United States of America. Please support our new president-elect and God Bless America.
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United we stand, Divided we fall.
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Just my opinion.

How well do you think Sarah Palin will do on "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?"
She may need help in Geography.

Nvgrf: It's obvious (after every election) that some people are upset, some elated. The beauty of our government is that it is ever changing, it runs on a cycle. All of us here have been on what we feel was the "losing" side. I was there the last eight years. Lovetoscrap, Retiredairforce, etc. are there now. And I want to let them know that we all have been there. While we have all been disappointed in the outcomes of certain elections, I truly believe that when the proverbial s**t hits the fan, everyone one of us will support America. Lovetoscrap, Retiredairforce already have. I know that our posts were heated during the election, but know that although I am happy that this election went the way I hoped it would, I have no desire to see America remained as divided as it was during the election. I hope everyone here would agree with that.

Sarah Palin can't do anything right. Those cowards who anonymously attacked her are complete losers.

At least I didn't vote for black guy solely because he's black.

So will these unpatriotic Republicans snap their yaps and support their new President come January?

So, what did everyone think of Sarah Palin yesterday with the "jerk" comment?
She really felt the heat about her lack of knowledge about Africa being a country..

Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006 because voters no longer saw Republicans as the party of limited government. They have since rejected virtually every opportunity to recapture this identity. But their failure to do so must not be misconstrued as a rejection of principles of individual liberty by the American people. The evidence suggests we are still a nation of pocketbook conservatives most happy when government has enough respect to leave us alone and to mind its own business. The worrisome question is whether either political party understands this.

Such incomparable wit, Minan!
The economic collapse was the Democrats’ fault. Yet John McCain never bothered going after them on that. He let the burglars walk away with the loot because those were his friends, and with George Bush failed to point the finger of blame at the people who caused the financial collapse that has plunged the nation into a certain recession. Bush had the bully pulpit but failed to use it, and the Democrats walked away scot-free.

Shockingly, John McCain failed to use the most potent weapon in his arsenal -- the culpability of Barack Obama and his friends in the wholesale looting of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that led to the current debacle. McCain had the goods, but wouldn't exploit them.

The McCain campaign made inadequate use of Gov. Sarah Palin, who had enormous crowd appeal. A lot of people voted for John McCain because of Sarah Palin. There were bigger crowds because of Sarah Palin. Yet some of the functionaries in the McCain campaign are trying to point the finger at her for McCain's defeat.

John McCain lost because of his lack of a clear message. He needed more than the fact that he is a maverick. His answer to the economic crisis was a $300 billion bailout for delinquent mortgagees. He was offering welfarism, while Barack Obama was offering socialism.
Finally, I hope that when Barack Obama was making elaborate and extravagant promises about what he was going to do, he was flat-out lying.

I hope Barack Obama will not be what he has promised to be. I hope he doesn't have a civilian security force. I hope he doesn't raise my taxes. I hope he doesn't spread the wealth. I hope he doesn't raise taxes on corporate America. I hope he looks at nuclear power. I hope he allows us to drill. I hope that there will be no revival of the fairness doctrine.

It's quite obvious lovetoscrap cannot relate to anything or anyone non-WASPR (White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, and Republican)
.
There's a great big world out there that she's missing out on.

lovestocrap: Did your childs teacher really say that record numbers of minorities don't know what Obama stands for, or did you just draw that conclusion yourself? Where is your evidence to back up that claim?

The ratio of non-white to white voters increased only 3% from 2004 to 2008 (non-whites were 23% of the vote in 2004, and 26% in 2008).
Of that 3%, 2% were African-American, and 1% were Latino.

"Comparing exit polls from 2004 and 2008 makes the breadth of Barack Obama's victory clear. Obama received a larger share of the vote than John Kerry among voters of ALL genders, races, education levels, and income classes, and virtually all religions. The only groups with whom he underperformed Kerry were older (65+) voters, and gay and lesbian voters.

Conversley, there is a hidden source of strength in this table that hasn't been talked much about before: Obama markedly overperformed Kerry among parents. In a sense, it was those people who have most reason to be concerned about the future who voted for Obama: people who are young themeslves, or people who have young children at home."
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

My point and the point of her teacher was this...without record numbers of minorities coming out to vote...those who didn't bother to vote in the past and have no idea what obama even stands for...he never would have won. That is something to be proud of. Racism at it's best! Voting for someone on the basis of one's skin color. Maybe the blacks in this country need to quit pointing fingers and accusing others of racism and look in a mirror.

Lovetoscrap, what is your point? Its not area that votes, it is people. If 6 out of 10 rural voters are "red" and 6 out of 10 urban voters are "blue", then "blue" wins every time because the majority of people in this country live in cities, or if you prefer, urbanized counties.

Lakennedy, seriously, I hope the Republicans give Sarah the nod in 2012. I plan on giving her my vote in the Primary (as should all Democrats) just to watch the train wreck and implosion if she gets the nomination.
*
As far as viable Republicans, Romney and Huckabee would have to be the front runners. Guiliani will be too old, angry and tired to run in 2012. There likely will be other Governors out there that can catch some national attention. I don't see anyone coming out of the Senate.
*
Paul Ryan is a dark horse for President. He is probably a better VP candidate, especially paired with a southern Governor. He is smart, has savvy, connected, knows how to debate, and does not need $150,000 of new clothes to establish street cred with America.

Translation: The parts of the country with the most people voted for Obama.
+
He carried 28 states, McCain 22.
+

Yesterday in my daughter's sociology class, her teacher went over how Obama won the election. She showed them a map of the country broke down based on how counties voted. While the country was prominently red, the high concentration of blue in highly urban areas determined the outcome of the election.

Here is a link to the map of the election broken down by counties.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/elec...

Consider. In California, where a liberal judiciary had ordered the state to recognize homosexual marriages, voters, by 52 to 48, slapped the judges across the face and ordered the ban reimposed and placed in the California constitution. Arizona and Florida also voted to outlaw gay marriage, by landslides.

The New York Times deplored the "ugly outcome" of these three referenda and said voters were "enshrining bigotry," thus calling the majority of Californians, Arizonans and Floridians bigots and their Bible-rooted Christian beliefs nothing but bigotry.

Good to know what they think of us. Yet, McCain, who might have been out front on these moral and cultural issues, paid only lip service -- and lost Florida, and California by a landslide.

In Missouri, where McCain eked out a victory, a proposal to make English the official state language carried six to one. In Nebraska, a proposal to ban affirmative action carried 58 to 42, but lost in a 50-50 tie in Colorado.

Parental notification won 48 percent support in California, a far higher share of the vote than McCain got, while a measure to outlaw abortion except in cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother got 45 percent in South Dakota. Had McCain made an issue of Obama's support for a Freedom of Choice Act that would eliminate all state restrictions on abortion, he could have forced Obama to defend what yet remains a radical and extreme view in America.

While Barack was locking up black America, McCain failed to hold onto Bush's share of the white working class, though Obama had the most liberal voting record in the Senate and long associations with the likes of Jeremiah Wright and '60s bomber William Ayers.

Perhaps fearful his "good guy" reputation with his old buddies in his media "base" would be imperiled, McCain ruled Wright off limits and seemed hesitant even to go after the Ayers connections. Lee Atwater would not have been so ambivalent. Leo Durocher put it succinctly: "Nice guys finish last."

Ultimately, however, the Beltway Republicans are losing Middle America because they are ideologically incapable of addressing two great concerns: economic insecurity and the perception that we are losing the America that we grew up in.

Economic insecurity is traceable to NAFTA-GATT globalization, under which it makes economic sense for U.S. companies to close factories here, build plants in China and export back to the United States. Manufacturing now accounts for less than 10 percent of all U.S. jobs.

Social insecurity is traceable to mass immigration, legal and illegal, which has brought in scores of millions who are altering the character of communities and competing with U.S. workers by offering their services for far less pay.

These are the twin causes of death of the Reagan coalition, and as long as the Republican Party is hooked on K Street cash, it will not address either, and thus pass, blissfully addicted, from this earth.

AMEN. and AMEN!

Proudfighter11...thank you for those words! You are right. This should strengthen us, not make us bitter. There is always hope, even if it is hard to see right now.

What I'd like to know is where have all of you dems that want us to unite as one been for the last eight years? Nothing but bashing our president. Now you want us to climb on board and support the most liberal, socialistic pres this country has seen? NO WAY! Will not happen. I see this as doing nothing but dividing us even more. I cannot, willnot, support a man like that. He makes my stomach turn.

Keep your heads up guys.
It’s worth raining on the Obama parade by looking back -- a direction they never want to go unless it’s framed by “the past eight years” -- to a speech given in 1976.

Ronald Reagan, without notes, without a teleprompter, as Peggy Noonan describes in When Character Was King, spoke to his supporters after losing the bid for the presidency.

“It’s just one battle in a long war, and it will go on as long as we all live...Don’t give up on your ideals …And don’t for heavens’ sake, having seen the inner workings of the watch, don’t get cynical.”

This is why Reagan accomplished so much. Rejection should not make conservatives cynical; it should make them fight harder. After all, the only real reason to be a conservative is because you believe in something, or some things. And those things inspire you. They don’t make you bitter. But they do make you want to take a stand.

I’m not propagating Reagan nostalgia (that’s not Reagan’s style, anyway). But I appreciate his message.

So did the American people.

And so, apparently now, does the GOP.

Obama may have awakened a sleeping giant.

I have voted straight party Democrat since I was eighteen. After going to Iraq and hearing the MEDIA and left wing tear our president to shambles, and disrespect our fighting brave, I changed my outlook on things. I also don't believe in big Govt., or giving my hard earned money to some lazy scum smart enough to fake a nervous breakdown!
Sounds like you think Liberal is a put down. I DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THIS COUNTRY TO FAIL. That doesn't mean it won't happen. We need a little more than "hope". Just watch your trusted savior over the next few months, he will change. How did he look at his press conference today? He looked like he has aged ten years.
Believe me buddy, that is not "all I've got".

Crafty. Take a deep breath and hit the caps lock. The election is over and your guy lost.

Obama will cut defense by more than any 25%. We will pay more than the current 77% of every tax dollar collected by City, County, State and Federal Taxes, going as handouts to people who won't work. He's out to confiscate guns like Australia, Burn Christian Churches and build Abortion Clinics on their ashes. (not literally)
We will have unbelievable taxes and outrageous "Affirmative Action". has anyone looked at the state that Chicago is in? A total Disaster... now the Dems (I used to be one) made him President, the most Liberal Extremist they could even FIND ! PEOPLE We Elected.

WE HAVE SEEN THE RESULT OF PAST DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS TO SLASH DEFENSE PROCUREMENT . I THINK WE ARE ON A PATH TO RUIN WITH OBAMA AT THE HELM . THE UNITED STATES ABSORBED INTO THE EUROPEAN UNION IS NOT A FAR FETCHED POSSIBILITY . RUSSIA HAS MADE ITS INTENT KNOWN WITH ITS DEPLOYMENT OF ASSETS TO THE SOUTH . CHINA IS READY TO POUNCE . OSAMA BIN LADEN IS A CORNERED AND WOUNDED ANIMAL . IRAN IS POISED TO STRIKE . NORTH KOREA IS PLAYING US LIKE A FIDDLE . THE LIST GOES ON AND ON . WE NEED A CHURCHHILL NOT A CHAMBERLIN IN COMMAND .

Crafty. Is that all the best you got? You seem to take a certain glee that Obama will inherit one hell of a mess. A.) Do you care more about your precious Republican party than the country itself? B.) You're happy that the Republicans royally screwed things up so you can discredit the liberals? Take note, people, of the absolute bankrupt moral position of modern Republicans. All they have are empty and tired epithets like "liberal," "commie," and "socialist." This from the party that essentially says, "Vote us into government offices because we don't believe government can work!" And set out to prove it. And people like Crafty fall for it. Too stubborn to vote their own economic self-interest.

Hopefully, before he pulls the plug on The Land Between The Rivers, the new commander-in-chief will listen carefully to the counsel of Generals David Petraeus, Ray Odierno in Iraq and David McKiernan in Afghanistan. Making decisions now about force dispositions after inauguration may well placate his far left base but could well prove disastrous for the nation.
Even before the election, leading Democrats in the House and Senate were prognosticating a “transformation” in U.S. defense capabilities. The two most recent Democrat presidents made similar promises. When Jimmy Carter came to office he all but eliminated our “Humint” -- Human Intelligence -- capabilities and ordered an “across the board” reduction of 15 percent in everything from ships, to planes to “end strength” -- the number of soldiers, sailors, airmen, Guardsmen and Marines in the services.

Bill Clinton did the same thing, only bigger. Half the Army’s divisions disappeared, along with scores of ships and combat air wings. He also introduced the “don’t ask -- don’t tell” policy to allow homosexuals to serve in the Armed Forces.

The net effect of both presidents’ capabilities cuts was to embolden America’s adversaries. Arguably, American troops are still paying in blood for the “cost cutting” done during the Carter and Clinton administrations. That may well be happening again -- in an ever more dangerous world.

mooshoo. Sarah Palin thinks Africa is a country. She can't name one USSC decision (besides RvW).

I do think it's fascinating to see how she's managed to excite the Republicans more than McCain. I want to throw a few things out there, though. I think the Republican party is in deep trouble if the best candidate that they can come up with is Sarah Palin. I am wondering how Republicans see their party right now. I'm trying to figure out who, besides Palin, is next to lead your party. I'm not attacking, I'm truly interested in this. Who is next? Ryan doesn't seem like he's interested. I have no idea if Romney is done with his quest for the White House. What do you think.

proartist...I did ask a soldier what he thinks. A 20 year navy chief and he shook his head in disgust wondering what part of Africa they were going to be sent to. The vets may have forgotten that their wages go down and they are generally disrespected by democrats in office. Our current guys know the truth.

Now I know why we are all in such deep kinshee, you people think the ecom=nomy is controled by the President. Hey wake up dingbats its controled by congree i.e. the DEMOCRATS. IDF YOU WANTED CHANGE YOU SHOULD HAVE VOTE REPUBLICAN CAUSE WE HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTROLE FOR 2 YEARS NOW, HMMMMMMMM FUNNY, thats when all this crap started and we slid down hill. HMMMMMMMMM CHANGE IS GREAT SO FAR

Yes, I would much rather have someone running our country that wanted her state to be seperated from the US, has no education, and no idea what is going on, than someone who actually has an education, love for the country and a game plan. Good call MooShoo... again, unbelievable.

Gee I sure hope Sarah Palin runs in 2012. Rest assured, I will be voting for her in the Wisconsin Primary if she does. Come to think of it, I might even make a contribution to her campaign.

QuitWhining---you are absolutely correct. Iraq did NOT attack us, but "W" invaded them because he wanted to show up "Daddy" who wisely did not invade Iraq in the first Gulf war. He wanted to finally beat Daddy at something, but he sure picked the wrong example.

You are right, Crafty. He really doesn't know what he's in for. Thanks to Bush, he has to pick up all the pieces. And dub, how could you say that the Dems ruined Bush's image? I think Bush did that all on his own. The guy couldn't even talk right, let alone run a country. And about what you said: "The logic you present would state that we did so good through the nineties because of Reagan and Bush Sr. Leaving Bush to clean up Clinton's mess" -- Are you freakin' kidding me???? You really think that Bush cleaned up Clinton's mess? Bush was like a little kid in a candy store... as soon as he gained control of the country, all hell broke loose! I agree that we needed to do something about being attacked... but honestly, where was the security in the United States? Maybe Bush should've focused on that instead of bullying the rest of the world and racking up our trillion dollar debt. But of course he wanted to look like the BIG MAN and show these countries exactly what we expect from them, all the while turning our allies into our foes! My head is not a bowl full of jelly... but your head seems to need the company - I've seen plenty of other posters on here, you could all start a club.

Wait until your precious Obama is debriefed by the CIA and other intelligence. He has no idea what he is in for.
Clinton was hardly left wing? So if we did so good then, why elect the second most Liberal senator in US history?

Proartist, I am a soldier. Your links are ridiculous. You know what the answer to Dubs question will already be, if you look at those one sided websites. ASK A SOLDIER. This is the bias he was talking about!
Try talking to a Vet, instead of reading that jargon.

Dub190. Let's get one thing straight. Clinton was hardly a liberal. Maybe in his personal life. But as for economic policies, the man was middle-of-the-road leaning right. Take Clinton to Europe and he would fit in real nicely with the Tories or Christian Democrats. Thus the enmity between Clinton and Obama. Obama sees right through the man. Clinton was hardly the standard bearer for progressivism. Liberals were desparate for even a little swing to the left in the 90s. When the utter bankruptcy of the Republican party finally revealed itself, the liberals sure abandoned Clinton real fast. Face it. The Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. And lest you think I as a liberal can't be objective about Reid and Pelosi, it's obvious that they have proven themselves to be lightweights. Time to get real in America and call a spade a spade.

Good point Dub. Too bad no one will believe a word of it.
If things are going good the Liberals take all the credit. If things are going bad they blame it on the Republicans. WTF? Past or present doesn't matter to them. They just want Bush punished.
That is where Liberals and Conservatives are different. Conservatives want what is best for the Country, and our kids. Party comes after that. For Liberals it's the other way around. They would gladly lose a war if it meant a Democratic party win.

dub190: "Ask a soldier for their opinion. ". . . Yes, let's ask the veterans:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org or http://www.veteransforamerica.org

Whybesad. Did it ever occur to you that McCain simply might have run a terrible campaign? Why should the media sugar coat a lackluster candidate and campaign? All things are not always equal. There are not always two sides to an issue. Sometimes one candidate is simply better than another. In that case, the media should not pretend objectivity. Anyway, the point is moot. Hillary ran a better campaign against Obama than McCain did. He got his behind handed to him, did the old warrior. He knows it. He said as much himself. He did not blame the media. He blamed himself. Oh, and if you voted Bush, don't you think your own judgment might be a little suspect?

Pew research came up with the 14%.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/100...

Do you people seriously believe that all of these problems started 2 years ago??? Bush has been in office for 8 years. The country went downhill after he decided to try and take over the world by bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. The country is going to be in dire straits for a long time because of what the Republicans did. You can't blame that on Obama. I'm amazed that you are all up in arms about the Democrats taking over and throwing this country down the toilet, when it clearly started after Bush was elected. Clinton had this country running smooth... we had a surplus in fact. I think Clinton's character is a little shot, but at least we had a good economy. He was a Democrat, people, and the country was a much better place with him in office. If you want to look for the cause of the these problems we are facing, look at who is currently in office and has been for the last 8 years. Unbelievable.

I'll try to find the source 4 ya :)

Heard it on the radio out of Chicago.

What's your source on this report? I agree that Obama had a huge advantage in the media, but %14 is low. I would believe that number if it was being applied to Palin.

Just saw a report that 14% of news stories favored John McCain. It's hard to win an election against an opponent and then have to battle the media as well. A war hero who sacrificed his life for this country and was a POW for 5 1/2 and tortured an 14% POSITIVE news stories. The media pretty much decides who is going to be the President.

dub:
The answer to your question; when the country sees double digit unemployment, sky rocketing inflation, and even bigger social problems then all ready exist is:
.
BLAME BUSH!
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He will have been out of office for years, but will still take all the blame; as the country totally falls apart from the policies of the new progressive regime. It will be classic to watch. All these angry Bush haters will be just as angry, and still be blaming him as he lives the high life on his ranch in TX!

God help us all!

Do you people even know what kind of change you voted for?

Can we speak up when the Country goes further into decline like it has the last 2 years when Democrats took control of the house and senate? Or will the liberals have more excuses? Can we all point the finger and say it's Obama's fault? And piss and moan for the next 4 years like the liberals did for the past 8 years?

Birds of a feather vote together
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/...

Eksreigh, I don't know too much about Baldwin, but-if that is your gut feeling, or even just your conscience, why wouldn't you cast your vote for him? If nothing else, he will see that someone (or more) believed in his message. It could be the incentive for him to do good works on a smaller scale, for now.

Well I_C_Y-after I was free for the day, I did what I said I would. I listened to the audio in its entirety. You didn’t mention that it was “edited” by a biased source-with the text inserted for affect. But-I did listen, and as I am prone to do, I checked many other sources of all sorts for more information. It left me with more questions than answers-for example: this interview with Obama has been available on the San Francisco Chronicle’s website since it was made in January-how or why is she just bringing it to light now? One reason could be “What Palin neglected to mention is that the guy she's running with, John McCain, favors a cap-and-trade program very similar to Obama's, which would have the exact same impact on conventional coal plants.” (L.A. Times) Good or bad? Well, it depends on how you feel about the subject, but certainly doesn’t reflect better or worse on one candidate than the other.
But, while we’re on the subject, did you know that Palin supported Obama (to some degree anyway) before she was chosen as McCain’s running mate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO6dmBm1S...
and
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/09/08...
and that they both thought highly of his energy plan?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/05...
and did you know that at least up until August, Palin’s own mother-in-law didn’t know who she was going to vote for?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...
Just more food for thought.
I just can’t wait until it’s over and whatever happens, the we, and the rest of the world, will be the better for it.

I know it's late in the game, but...
.
Do any of you guys know anything about Chuck Baldwin? He's running for president in the Constitution Party. I've been reading about him tonight and like some of the things I've read.
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http://www.baldwin08.com/
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The polls show that in order for McCain to win he'd have to win all his strong states, all the states leaning his way, all the undecided states, and 23 electoral votes from Obama states. Assuming that a McCain win is a long shot, and assuming I'm reduced to selecting the lesser of two evils, I wonder if the only way to keep from wasting my vote would be to vote my conscience, regardless of whether or not my candidate is likely to win.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

...........William J.H. Boetcker

RUSerious Nov 3, 2008 at 5:06 p.m.
..
….But please then, read the entire page I’ve given a link to and tell me if you think one candidate’s stance on coal is better or worse than the other’s…
..
I will try to glean what reference you are specifically denoting in the link, but I will take a stab at “‘In a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely,” by McCain.
..
Vs.
..
….“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.
That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.
The only thing I've said with respect to coal, I haven't been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a (sic) ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.
So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.
It's just that it will bankrupt them……by Obama
..
..
The former speaks of a “perfect world”, the latter has actually detailed how he plans to abate the coal industry. Just because the Union doesn’t grasp the impact of his statement, doesn’t change the ultimate desolation of an industry.
..
Additionally, the costs will be passed on to the consumer (you and I), for the companies that “try” to continue business under an Obama plan.

RUSerious Nov 3, 2008 at 5:06 p.m.
..
The parallels are quite similar;
..
UMW is endorsing a candidate who has stated “…So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted…
..
So, not only is the candidate that they endorsed, not going to be able to help them. He is literally promising to driving their jobs away.
..
As for Doyle, can you document how many Companies have left this state since he took office?

I_C_Y-the UAW/Doyle comment does not seem to equate to the United Mine Workers/Obama endorsement. GM-a UAW company, is apparently leaving Doyle’s state-where’s the same connection with UMW, Obama and coal mines? If I am really just confused by what you meant, it’s because I don’t have time this moment to absorb it. When I am free to do it later, I will give it some more thought, and also will listen to the entire Obama statement with an open mind; so far I have only read a transcript (after reading the abbreviated transcript, with select lines, given in the Sarah Palin story). But please then, read the entire page I’ve given a link to and tell me if you think one candidate’s stance on coal is better or worse than the other’s.
I promise I will revise my own comments on that if I feel differently about it.

RUSerious Nov 3, 2008 at 3:21 p.m.
..
…endorsed by the United Mine Workers…
..
The UAW endorsed Jim Doyle for Governor, but that didn’t help out much stopping GM from leaving Janesville, did it?

RUSerious Nov 3, 2008 at 3:21 p.m.
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At 1:00 minute the statement from Obama himself, not spin, listen for yourself.
…So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQB...

He's still being endorsed by the United Mine Workers-they clarify the latest Palin distortion, and even bring it home to John McCain.
http://www.umwa.org/index.php?q=news/mcc...

whybesad Nov 3, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.
..
Personally, a more immediate impact, if he proceeds with his plan, would be the price of your electricity.
..
…The nation's fleet of over 100 coal plants is responsible for 57 percent of the electricity generated in the U.S., more than any other single electricity fuel source….
http://www.powerscorecard.org/tech_detai...
..
If Obama is elected, anyone with stocks in utilities (coal) better move it into something else!

Now Obama wants to bankrupt coal mines. Is this the "change" you want? Thousands of people work in coal mines and make "living" wages. Now, he wants to put those people out of business? WOW!!! No wonder he wanted his cronies to vote early. The more and more we learn the scarier he becomes.

kleej- playing "russian roulette" with our country! I like the way you put it. It's a very valid analogy to say the least.

Lake I apologize on the mistaking you but for the other part I still agree with RAF.

Eksreigh Nov 2, 2008 at 10:24 p.m.
..
Based on documented left leanings within the main stream media, and the precipitous drop in subscribership to the main stream media, we have already almost completely lost our First Amendment access to a “free press”: …or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;..
..
We have “hate speech” laws?
..
The “press” selectively chooses what “facts”, to report, and continually injects their personal opinions into the “news”.
..
At least, “the sky is not falling”, yet!

RUSerious Nov 3, 2008 at 1:42 a.m.
..
Thank you for providing an honest response!
..
Although I disagree with a number of your points grievously, as I have documented within this forum. Continuing the cycle could be described as futile, since large segments of the population are not dealing with ‘facts”, but “emotion”.
..
I only ‘hope” that people take the time to study the life cycle of societies, and what brings about their demise, as well as, where this Country is on the time line.

USerious Nov 3, 2008 at 1:47 a.m.
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It was a puny attempt at being jocular!
..
If you look up “horse”, and “road apples”, via search. By conglutinating the two, the common vernacular could equate to “horse s_it”.

Not understanding the doctrine has undoubtedly been the reason you are still avoiding the tax question.

whybesad: The reunions are funny. Even the Republicans in my family seem to enjoy themselves.

+
RAF: You don't need to go slower for me. I understand what you're saying, as I'm the one who pointed that out to you. It would help me if you could admit you were wrong when you wrote (in defense of that moron Palin) "Which of the many Bush Doctrines should she have memorized?"
+
I responded, enlightening you that there is only ONE Bush Doctrine.

DO you get it now? You wrote that there were more than one. NOT me. I explained that it was a multi-faceted document, but indeed all sections falling under ONE Bush Doctrine.

"“How can he cut the taxes on people who pay no taxes?” or some drivel like that." The problem is there are way to many voters who have not found out for themselves that the "drivel" is a government redistribution [something for nothing] and not a tax cut as stated so many times by the candidate in stump speeches/interviews/debates and advertising via the media. It is the absences of truth in the claims that are the problem.

razorsharp~
You make an excellent point there! It doesn't matter who the candidate is, the opportunity to enhance your financial future has always been there. Too many people are looking for a handout! That's just what the govt. wants too. They want people to become reliant on them and settle for status quo. This way it doesn't rock the boat and the corrupt corporate driven thugs in the govt. can continue to walk away with the working man's hard earned money! Whether it's Obama or McCain in office, the opportunity SHOULD still be there. Each candidate has it's following and most people are into voting for which candidate has something to offer the voter which will help them the most financially. Sadly, the mainstream mindset isn't "what's good for the entire country", it's "what's in it for me?"!! The labor unions for example...... the only reason the democratic candidates are being forcefed down people's throats with their massive media of junk mail and TV ads is because it serves their purpose ONLY. They could care less what's in it for the little guy. Same with McCain. There are groups that take the selfish angle and it's all about them as well! Personally, I think both of these candidates have some major flaws in them. But, the most dangerous candidate is Obama, hands down! I still can't fathom how people can simply overlook his connections with people and groups that have every intention of bringing this country to it's knees! It's beyond me how people can't swallow their pride and admit that! Instead, they start throwing McCain's shortcomings in people's face. My answer to that is ...duh! I'd be willing to bet that McCain was groomed at his church by a pastor who actually taught him values, principles and that honor and duty were sacred. Rev. Wright taught Obama that hate was acceptable and Obama "changes his tune" regarding his church now that he's a presidential candidate. Not to mention all his ties to people who aren't exactly pro-America! How can the people of this country watch this happen and dismiss it as irrelevent?? As citizens of the U.S., this isn't the time to be playing Russian Roulette with our country!

oops-after all that, I meant to address I_C_Y
(apologies WhyBeSad)
But, I_C_Y-what does "I call road apples on you" mean?

Whybesad: Truth is at one time I could have, with a polite and courteous exchange of ideas, possibly decided on either candidate. It started out being difficult to decide in my own mind-a great part of that was Barack Obama’s relative inexperience. But the more I watched and listened for discussion of experience over inexperience, qualifications, plans and proposals, I instead heard gossip, innuendo, slivers of truths being distorted into incredible misrepresentations of the facts by John McCain and his party and campaign people (like on this forum) demeaning another human being and those who support him. I finally decided who I felt most comfortable voting for. I, of course, did my own research to decide what to believe and what not to.
But now, you ask, what virtues do I see in Obama. Briefly, considering the magnitude of the outcome, I think he would be the better diplomat, so important right now. I am very impressed with discipline and diplomacy-I think he shows both. I think McCain would have a quicker trigger finger-quicker to take us into a new war, much more likely to keep us in this one beyond a reasonable time, and less likely to let dialogue take the place of brute strength.
I think Obama’s economic plans have the benefit of the greatest number of people in mind-those who need every penny they can keep of what they earn, while McCain’s would more likely appease the wealthy. I know-there has been a lot said about “First he said those who make $250,000, then $200,000, then $150,000, now it’s $42,000” and “How can he cut the taxes on people who pay no taxes?” or some drivel like that....well that’s just another of those slivers of truths distorted into incredible misrepresentations of fact that I mentioned. If people ask those questions without bothering to research the answers themselves, or come to a forum like this demanding over and over that answers be given to nitpicky questions, they aren’t asking to share ideas-they are picking a fight. In other words, people read into a thing what they want to-and either don’t do the research to find what’s true or what was really said, or they just pass on that which fits what they want people to believe.
Another clincher for me (but far from my last reason for finally making a decision) is-I do not like Sarah Palin and would have a hard time being comfortable with her as Vice President. If she has qualifications as the Governor of a state-great, but presently all I see is a brash, opportunistic, grating person, and I’d worry every day if she became president-much more so than if John McCain was elected Tuesday and I could be assured he’d survive his entire term.
I know you’re just as capable as I am to find the anything you really want to know, but I suspect you’re really asking so you can tear down or laugh at my answers. If not, I apologize and would be happy to listen back. There are too many nuances to this to do it much justice here.

RUSerious, thanks for the props. I do try to write logically and clearly. What good is my argument if nobody can understand what I'm trying to say? I've been sitting out for the last few hours because we've gotten so far off topic.
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RetiredAirForce and Razorsharp make good points. With few exceptions, if we don't like our pay rates we can quit our jobs and apply to work somewhere else. As long as Walmart pays at least the legal minimum wage and follows the appropriate labor laws, I don't see how it can be accused of being "unfair" to its employees. Unlike members of the military, Walmart employees didn't sign an enlistment contract so if they don't like the working conditions they can quit.
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Not to belittle Walmart sales associates, but let’s fact it: Theirs is not a highly skilled job. The work can be learned rather quickly. The company specializes in low retail prices, and one way it maintains those low prices is by keeping the payroll to an absolute minimum. Because of the low pay, my opinion is that at the local store level the company tends to attract workers who have few marketable skills. That doesn’t mean the employees don’t work hard, and I’m sure that most of them do. But if the workers feel stuck there it means they’ve limited themselves through their life choices.
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Education is available to all of us, and I firmly believe it is the stepping stone to greater opportunity and success. If I was a GM worker now and had no other skills, I’d already be in classes at Blackhawk Tech or UW-Rock learning something new. Sure, it takes time and money. The alternative is to do nothing and limit your employment options. I remember something I once read: “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”

I_C_Y, nice link. I wonder, though, if we’ll really see another reversal of power. It may depend on whether people place more blame for the country’s woes on Congressional Democrats or the Republican White House.
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In my own travels, I find very few people who know even the names of their Congressmen. Sadly, more people can name ten NFL quarterbacks than name ten U.S. senators.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/17870610...

MadeinUSA Nov 1, 2008 at 7:14 a.m.
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Please define “support”?
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To my knowledge, the Gazette has yet to “endorse” a candidate.

"Support" means to let it fly this long in print, online, whereas stories with true negatives about the GOP have been removed. The Janesville Gazzete has always supported Union busting, and that would be John McCain's position.

RUSerious Nov 2, 2008 at 7:35 p.m.
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I call “road apples” on you! (pun intended)
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….. if you are trying to lead a horse to water so he can drink the water YOU think he should drink, what good does it do to drown him in the process?
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Perhaps you may elucidate for the readers, some of the virtues that Mr. Obama affords upon the position of President of the United States.

razorsharp, your post is excluded from what I said previously-I hadn't seen your post when I wrote mine, and it was well put (IMHO), it wasn't meant to make anyone else look stupid, and it is, of course, very true. When enough people learn that-and hopefully many (but of course, not all) will have the opportunity to follow it, this will be a better place.

Yike-I came here hoping to find more thoughtful dialogue by posters such as Eksreigh, but instead I find derisive diatribes in the last several posts, just like the ones I mentioned in my earlier comments to Eksreigh. I sure would like to know exactly who the posters were trying to sway in those tirades below, and if they really expected to accomplish anything. Otherwise they are just a series of insults to those who dare have differing opinions.
To coin a new phrase: if you are trying to lead a horse to water so he can drink the water YOU think he should drink, what good does it do to drown him in the process?

Not really sure who I was making fun of. Just stating the truth. I'm glad I made you laugh though.

Lakennedy…You stated “You accuse many of not wanting to work”, not sure who’s comments you are reading but I have never said that. For the record those that do work at places like Wal-Mart are compensated, you might not like the wages these places pay but they do pay. You previously stated “American’s are kept from earning a decent wage”, my whole point was this is a false and misleading statement. There is no one person/business/company/corporation that keeps people from earning anything. It is these very same that hire people to provide a job/service that they are compensated for. The vast majority of employees are not held by contract and can seek other employment anywhere at anytime…so who are the people you claim are being “kept”?

Oops sorry Lakekennedy for the typo. I guess not everyone is as perfect as you are. I wish I was related to you the family reunions would be a blast!!!

lakennedy Nov 2, 2008 at 5:55 p.m.
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….But, those who are willing and do work should be compensated for their work.
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Are you alleging that people are in forced labor?

Lakennedy…Again for you (slower this time). The Bush doctrine has MANY parts (i.e. it is not single). There are many separate Bush doctrines identified by many as “the” doctrine. If you wish to discuss one of the many please tell me which.

whybesad: LMAO. un-educated, huh? Not uneducated? That's really quite funny. You trying to insult others by showing just how "un-educated" you are. Keep on truckin'. Thank God I am not related to you.

I understand that no one forces anybody to work anywhere. That doesn't excuse the fact that this company refuses to be fair to its employees. You accuse many of not wanting to work and weighing down the system, but there are thousands who want to work, and do. They're working at places like Wal Mart. Here are the REAL facts regarding Wal Mart.:
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http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/facts/
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Tell me that you could live on this. Add a kid or two to the mix. This is a joke. You point out, RAF, that people don't have to work somewhere, they're not being forced to. I agree. But where would you be with no one working here? To quote Judge Shmales "The world needs ditch diggers, too". It does. But, those who are willing and do work should be compensated for their work.

NO. LOOK at your post. You asked "which of the many bush doctrines..." There isn't more than ONE Bush Doctrine. It has many parts, but there is ONLY ONE. Review your posts. You write them, stand by them.

Obama hasn't a clue how he is going to pay those taxcuts to people that don't even pay federal income taxes. It's just a tactic to get the un-educated people to vote for him. It's an empty promise.

I guess lakekenndey thinks that if you work at wal-mart you can't make a decent wage. I have a cousin that worked there for 12 years and made pretty good money and had a nice profit sharing plan to boot. She decided to further her education and pursue a career in health care. Nobody forced her to work at wal-mart and nobody forced her to quit. It's up to the individual to choose where to work. If people wouldn't work at wal-mart for the minimum wage or they couldn't find quality people to work there they would probably raise their starting wages. Just like any business.

To the question you need “explained”. I have asked you numerous times how Obama’s claim that he will provide 95% of the working families a tax cut is a false. Over 30% of those that pay federal payroll tax already receive back more than they pay in; that means they already don’t pay a federal tax. How can Obama claim to cut their taxes? How does one cut below a zero rate?

To your earlier question on the Bush doctrine I specifically asked what part, as the doctrine is multifaceted and changing. To “school” you further it contains preventive strikes, regime change, addressing countries that support terrorists, and unilateralism just to name a few. So again, what part of this do you want to discus?

Does Wal-Mart make people work there? How does Wal-Mart keep people that do decide to work there from changing their position in life if the wanted too? You are now stating a living wage which is another topic, my question was about your comment on a decent wage.

If you're asking me to offer you evidence showing you how American's are kept from earning a living wage, that's easy. I could go into a million examples, but I'll save us both time, and just write: Wal-Mart. If you need further clarification, I honestly don't have the time to teach you.

What does clearing pointed mean, RAF?

Do any of my questions get answered from you? How many Bush Doctrines are there again, bright one?
How is this statement "It doesn't mean it's bad, either" an opinion, again?
No wonder you support Sarah Palin. You both seem to subscribe to the same school of idiocy.

Wow, are you in fifth or sixth grade? I'm done with your idiocy. I just wrote asking you to clarify the question, which apparently you're unable to do.
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whybesad: move on. Do your reasearch, and you'd find out I just asked him to repeat the question.

Lakekennedy how did you answer retiredairforce's question? It looks like you didn't. Good question retired.

Wow...still avoiding the clearing pointed out questions by stating you don't undestand...perhaps you are the one in need of further education...hmmmmm?

That is a fact.
How is it not. hmmmm Once again, nice try. You're going to have to do much better, though.

And if your muster the reading comprehension comparable to a first grader, you'd have read that I wrote:
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"Please know I'm not dodging your question, just confused on what you're looking for. Are you asking me how Obama is going to pay for his tax credits, or who is getting them?"
--November 1st, 3:42.
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Keep trying. And while you are obviously quite interested in my posts (since you respond EVERYtime I write one, I'll ask tht instead of waiting to s*** all over mine, why not try to put out a thought of your own. Is your position so weak that instead of bringing something of your own to the discussion, you wait until someone else posts something to critique it with halve-truths and nonsense? Just wondering...

Let me know how the phrase "It doesn't mean it's bad, either" constitutes an opinion. Swing by a local public school sometime. Actually, I think they'll be reviewing the difference between an opinion and a fact next week. You may get something out of this class, as you obviously missed it the first time around.
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lakennedy...hmmmmm "It doesn't make it bad, either." I guess then this statement was your FACT? Your contention is to argue every point made by anyone you have differing views with you don't remember your own statements. I see you could not provide any factual proof to your “other” delusional claim on American’s kept from earning a decent wage so you just ignored the question.

Misprint alert! I meant to say:
"...but no one can tell me that at least a small percentage WON'T color..."
Now who's going to tell me I have only a 3rd grade education because I failed to proof read BEFORE I turned in my material? <---(good-natured ribbing)

Well, Eksreigh, I, for one, enjoy reading your posts because they are logical but also tolerant and considerate of other views. I can see what you say, and consider it as important because I don’t have to wade through insults and degradation to see it. Why would anyone take seriously someone who has just has greatly offended them?

Very many posters seem to be saying you’re not fit to give an opinion or are totally blind and ignorant if you do not believe the way they do. They mock others for going to the media for all their information, then some proceed to post several links to information, often with outlandish accusations, as if you are not perfectly capable of researching pro and con views of your own. Your sources are biased, theirs are solid. They nitpick things of lesser importance trying to make your own views seem inconsequential or irrelevant.

There usually ARE two sides to each of the current stories. It’s our duty to research as much as we can to form our own opinion, to take the blinders off and not be swayed by preconceived notions.

I do think that this is a totally different kind of campaign because one candidate is what no other has ever been before. (oh, really?) Of course it might be difficult for some to get past that-maybe even understandably so (we seem to be creatures of habit)-but no one can tell me that at least a small percentage will color (what pun?) their total opinion of one of the candidates on that. Any stereotypes related to that candidate might crop up as perceived anti-material against that candidate.
Both candidates, in my view, have some degree of presidential material or they certainly would never have come this far. I still have enough faith in our government and how it works to believe that any Hitlers, Husseins, OSamas would not have made it this far. But it’s when we tear each other apart instead of work together, (yes-even when we have greatly different opinions) that we start to fall apart and the exposed weaknesses allow the really bad stuff to creep in. And, speaking of those names I used up there-to use the birth name of a candidate against him is just plain childish, and should be beneath the dignity of anyone worthy of speaking for a candidate, even on an individual citizen level.

I really don't know. I have voted Republican and Democrat in the past, so I don't specifically support one party wholeheartedly. I do think, although I'm supporting Barack Obama, that it is risky to have the same party in control of both the legislative and of the executive. Regardless of what party. I do think though that if we do have a Democratic president and a Democratic controlled legislative branch, then it is a result of what the majority of Americans want. There has to be something said for that.

RAF. I'm going to make this as clear as I can for you, since you just don't seem to be that quick on the uptake. In my post regarding my fathers health care I wrote a FACT. It is a FACT that my father relayed to me that those were his sentiments. His sentiments, in themselves, were OPINIONs.
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Your response was:
"Lakennedy...for someone (you) that is not required to use the system your opinion on this subject is just that."
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HMMMM. I wish you'd let me know what my opinion on the subject is. I mean, since according to your post I shared one, right? So, let's have it. What is my opinion on the subject?
I never EVER gave MY opinion on the subject. I offered a FACT (that this was what my father shared with me, but what he shared was indeed an opinion). I'm hoping you can try and understand this.

Eksreigh Nov 2, 2008 at 11:47 a.m.
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The argument could easily be made that, based on historical precedent of 1994, when the Republicans took control of congress, or 2006 when the Democrats took it back, that the population is fed up enough with the current incumbent members that the make-up of Congress could change this time as well?
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Since the margin of error is insignificant in the polls of Congressional approval, it just may change again!
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108856/Congre...

Whybesad, good comments. I might not agree with all of your opinions (I agree with some), but we all form our own by reading, listening, thinking, and participating in this forum.
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Personally, the main differences I see between McCain and Obama are that McCain seems almost eager to take us into another war. His naval and POW background might lead him to think that military force is the best way to solve any international dispute, and he'll oppose pulling our troops out of Iraq until the country becomes our de facto 51st state. With Obama, I see a systematic background of distributing gift money to the needy. He'll try to use his power as president to enlarge social programs and introduce universal health care. The donors, in this case, would be the U.S. taxpayers.
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Of course, our president is not a dictator. Just because he says he'll share the wealth or he says he'll invade Iran doesn't mean he can do it without the help of Congress.
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Assuming that one opposes some aims of both men, I guess an argument could be made that with Congress controlled by the Democrats it's better to elect McCain and frustrate his goals than to elect Obama and enable his. Anyone?

I think Obama is less experianced than McCain. I fell that John McCain is better to lead this Country in a time of war. I feel he will do the right thing in Iraq. I don't think socializing health care is going to make it better. I think it will end up costing taxpayers trillions of dollars more. The government should be used to "govern" and not manage the Country. I think Americans as a whole pay enough in taxes already. It's the spending that we have a problem with. I don't think keeping money that I work hard for is selfish at all. I feel I can better manage my money better than the government can.

Eksreigh Nov 2, 2008 at 2:53 a.m.
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As I summarized in another blog entry on the Gazette. Both Obama and McCain are going to take us down the tracks to this Countries final historical desolation. The reality is one (Obama) is willing to push the throttle to the limit (possibly during his terms) to get us there as fast as possible, while McCain prefers to go along at the current pace. Both will are headed in the same direction, because the tracks are already laid.
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Now, the Opinion piece was specific about Obama’s associations, and suspect character. To that end, here are some additional suspect character information points that have become available, that Obama needs to address:
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- Newspaper shows Obama belonged to socialist party - Posted: October 24, 2008 - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f...
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- “Spread the wealth around”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRc...
- Obama Does Not Regret "Spread the Wealth" Comment
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kNVPZaj1sY...

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- The Los Angeles Times says it will not release a video it obtained of Sen. Barack Obama attending an anti-Israel event in which he delivered a glowing testimonial for an anti-Israel professor who excuses terrorism.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...
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- Who wrote 'Dreams From My Father'?
…. The stylistic similarities between the best sections of Obama's "Dreams" and Ayers' 2001 memoir, "Fugitive Days," should be apparent to any serious writer or editor..
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...
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- Obama: Immigration enforcement equals terror
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f...
…..The Associated Press found that Obama's aunt had been instructed to leave the country four years ago by an immigration judge who rejected her request for asylum from her native Kenya
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081101...
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Mr. Obama’s spurious background, and questionable associations leave many independents with only one choice in the lesser of two evils!

Lakennedy…you are in a delusional state. Please show where “Americans” are kept from earning a decent wage. What is keeping these people from making a different choice to improve their stance if they want to take an active part in improving it (earning a better wage)? You are correct we have different view points. I have the view you earn money and pay it to the government [taxes]. You have the view that government should pay people to a negative tax rate because it is “fair” [hand-out/sharing the wealth]. Oh yeah the other major difference, I don't need to justify my choice by what others "think".

I see many people here attacking Obama, but I don't see many people explaining why McCain would be a better choice.
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I've been getting 4-5 postcards a day from the Republican Party, with slogans like "Obama. He's not who we think he is." This tells me nothing. I don't know Obama or McCain personally, so one of them reminding me that I don't know the other doesn't give me any useful information.
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This news article by Charles Krauthammer is clearly biased. He faults Obama for knowing Ayers and Rezko, but conveniently fails to mention that McCain was involved with assisting convicted felon Charles Keating in the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Fiv...) and counts convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy as a friend (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/05...).

lakennedy...you obviously have no idea what fact is. If you stated you fathers experience that he relayed to you that is an opinion his to you...that you echoed because you have none that is relevant. If it really mattered to you the condition veterans experience in these places please attend meetings I and others attend at the Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, and the Disabled American Veterans (all of which I am a proud member of) you would come away with a different point of view.

Obama kicking off reporters from his bus because the paper they work for endorsed McCain. What a cry bay Obama is. His way or the highway it seems. So much for working across party lines.

lakekennedy, you can label me whatever you like. I'm not the judge nor jury here. I'm not a huge John McCain supporter either, nor a republican or democrat! I'm just not willing to give up the freedom's I've been blessed with and hold sacred. You choose as you wish, just be careful what you wish for. What's happening today was predicted centuries ago. People who refuse to take in truth are going to get a rude awakening. Unfortunately, there are those who live by truth that are going to have to pay the price for what the blind are allowing to take place.......... God help us all.

lakennedy Nov 1, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
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It was a logical observation.
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As for the polls
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First:
There is the “Bradley effect” that has yet to be determined.
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Second:
…. Reviewing the polls printed in the New York Times and the Washington Post in the last month of every presidential election since 1976, ….. When the polls were wrong, which was often, they overestimated support for the Democrat, usually by about 6 to 10 points.
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In 1976, Jimmy Carter narrowly beat Gerald Ford 50.1 percent to 48 percent. And yet, on Sept. 1, Carter led Ford by 15 points. Just weeks before the election, on Oct. 16, 1976, Carter led Ford in the Gallup Poll by 6 percentage points – down from his 33-point Gallup Poll lead in August.
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In 1980, Ronald Reagan beat Carter by nearly 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent. In a Gallup Poll released days before the election on Oct. 27, it was Carter who led Reagan 45 percent to 42 percent.
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In 1984, Reagan walloped Walter Mondale 58.8 percent to 40 percent, – the largest electoral landslide in U.S. history. But on Oct. 15, the New York Daily News published a poll showing Mondale with only a 4-point deficit to Reagan, 45 percent to 41 percent.
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In 1988, George H.W. Bush beat Michael Dukakis by a whopping 53.4 percent to 45.6 percent. A New York Times/CBS News Poll on Oct. 5 had Bush leading the Greek homunculus by a statistically insignificant 2 points – 45 percent to 43 percent.
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In 1992, Bill Clinton beat the first President Bush 43 percent to 37.7 percent. (Ross Perot got 18.9 percent of Bush's voters that year.) On Oct. 18, a Newsweek Poll had Clinton winning 46 percent to 31 percent, and a CBS News Poll showed Clinton winning 47 percent to 35 percent. So in 1992, the polls had Clinton 12 to 15 points ahead, but he won by only 5.3 points.
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In 1996, Bill Clinton beat Bob Dole 49 percent to 40 percent. And yet on Oct. 22, 1996, the New York Times/CBS News Poll showed Clinton leading by a massive 22 points, 55 percent to 33 percent.
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In 2000, ...the October polls accurately described the election as a virtual tie, with either Bush or Al Gore 1 or 2 points ahead in various polls. But in one of the latest polls to give either candidate a clear advantage, the New York Times/CBS News Poll on Oct. 3, 2000, showed Gore winning by 45 percent to 39 percent.
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In the last presidential election, the polls were surprisingly accurate – not including the massively inaccurate Election Day exit poll. In the end, Bush beat John Kerry 50.7 percent to 48.3 percent in 2004. Most of the October polls showed the candidates in a dead-heat, with Bush 1 to 3 points ahead. So either pollsters got a whole lot better starting in 2004, or Democrats stole more votes in that election than we even realized.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=7809...

So, based on historical president, I am confident the media has it wrong once again.

Poster-boy for the Republican party directly below...

Obama is the anti-Christ. Be wise to what you don't understand people. This country's futue is in peril.

ICY:
Really? That's too bad that someone stole from that couple, but are you suggesting that because one couple was defrauded that somehow the amount of money Obama has fundraised is not a testament to the amount of support he has throughout the country?
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If you're not convinced, perhaps you could check out the latest polls...(which apparently aren't accurate unless they show a Republican is winning)...

www.pollster.com

I think (opinion, RAF, just in case you're confused), that on November 4th you'll see that the majority of America agrees with me. If Obama is so bad for America then why does he have the support of so many of us?

I think (opinion, RAF, just in case you're confused), that on November 4th you'll see that the majority of America agrees with me. If Obama is so bad for America then why does he have the support of so many of us?

RAF: I never stated my opinion on the matter, I stated a fact regarding my fathers experience. There is a huge difference between the two. Here's a little help clarifying in case you're confused:
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Opinion would be:
I think RetiredAirForce is a blowhard who is going to be disappointed come 11/4.
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Fact would be:
RetiredAirForce is a blowhard who is going to be disappointed come 11/4.
I just can't make it any clearer than that.
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Please know I'm not dodging your question, just confused on what you're looking for. Are you asking me how Obama is going to pay for his tax credits, or who is getting them?
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cozat: I have no idea what you're talking about regarding the Aussie nonsense. It's a little ridiculous that you write "you couldn't be further from the truth about the Aussie government" when I haven't written anything about the Aussie government. Figure out who you're responding to when you post.
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My bottom line is the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there are millions of Americans who are willing and do work but are kept from earning a decent wage and being offered affordable health care because major corporations who have been on the recieving end of the tax cuts haven't lived up to their end of the bargain. Your assumption that everyone who would benefit from the Obama plan refuse to work is ignorant. The very fact that these corporations that have been awarded the tax cuts are not being awarded them with the contingent that they create jobs here in America is absolute idiocy.
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It's obvious that you, RAF, and I have different viewpoints. I have more faith in the majority of Americans, and not the corporations to whom Bush has and McCain wants to continue to spread the wealth to. Regardless of how you try to spin it, spreading the wealth has always gone on in America, just under the Republican plan, it's been spread to the top tiered economic classes, with no result. I'd like to see the tax dollars (that come from all working Americans) be spread to the majority of working Americans that actually need it and would do something positive with it.

Cozat - I think you were trying to say I was wrong, not Lake. While I know the left party has started to do some things there, the party on the right was in power for over 10 years and the culture there is more nativist than it is here. Policies like the one referenced are a result of working in that environment.

lakennedy Oct 30, 2008 at 4:17 p.m.
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….The amount of money he's raised is a testament to the amount of support he has…
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Maybe not:
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…Steve and Rachel Larman say a strange credit card charge appeared on their statement this month -- a $2300 donation to Barack Obama's presidential campaign. The Larman's say they don't want this to be about their political affiliation, but they say they're not about to give the Obama campaign any help from their pocketbook….
http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/...

Lake you couldn't be farther from the truth about Aussie government if you tried. There tax system punishes the working class to help the welfare class. Their health care decides on your doctor, when and what your doctor can do and what to pay said doctor. Government NOT country first is Australia's philosophy. I lived there. It is structured off of socialist ideology.

For the VA system your dads right it is good up in mad town. Apparently he hasn't been to the Orlando, Kansas City or Louisville VA. Obamas health plan isn't even close in comparison to our VA system.

Bottom line you want to give more in taxes to help out the welfare class then go ahead. My taxes can go to those that really need the help and are willing to work for it. For retiredairforces question why won't you answer it. IT is a tax CREDIT not a Tax break. Huge Difference.

Obama has a history of "present" votes. Is that the "change" we want? Can't even make a decision. Well, we had to tolerate Carter to get Regan.

Lakennedy...for someone (you) that is not required to use the system your opinion on this subject is just that. BTW...still waitng for your answers on the scam 95% tax cut you refuse to answer.

It doesn't make it bad, either.

I_C_Y...you are correct on the VA health care system. Not discounting lakennedy's fathers thoughts, just because you can find a few people that like the system does not make it good.

Cozat - interestingly enough, Australia's government is probably further to the right than ours right now. So, yes, if we had nationalized health care and immigrant hating Rightists in power then that could happen. I'm guess that isn't going to happen here because our Right doesn't even want to cooperate to provide health care to born citizens.

My father is a Vietnam Vet and goes to the veterans hospital in Madison. He has no issues with it, in fact he feels lucky to have the program. He's never been left wanting.

cozat5 Nov 1, 2008 at 8:54 a.m.
..
One does not have to look abroad for Government run Health systems. Just talk to a Vet that has utilized the VA system, if you want a glimpse into a Government run Health system.

Could this happen under Obamas health care plan?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10...

One reason I want the Government out of my health care plan.

MadeinUSA Nov 1, 2008 at 7:14 a.m.
..
Please define “support”?
..
To my knowledge, the Gazette has yet to “endorse” a candidate.

Headline Should read: Obama's Character Assassins Keep Associations Suspect.

Redder, does he stand for nothing or is he Liberal Left? Don't give me some trite response that it's the same thing. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Funny we don't see the Gazette publishing articles about John McCain's questionable associations; His son who runs the banks out west which got the first batch of bailout monies, his wife who was busted with pharmaceutical painkillers stolen from the institutions she works for, and on and on. Yet, the Gazette continues to support this race-baiting extremeist trash. Interesting twist on "news".

packolies Oct 31, 2008 at 8:17 p.m
..
I’ll continue to “cling to my Gun’s and Religion” instead!
(Obama speech April 6th, Pacific Heights, CA - 35:45)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fo...

guy's another chicago crook. hold on to your wallets people....

If I helped anyone I am glad, hope you at least read MY thoughts. I have to jet got a Notre Dame football game to go to tomorrow so I have to drive. Good Luck everyone we will need it, and VOTE PLEASE VOTE and if your a democrat vote often

whybesad glad to hear from you

Your right and ask his constituancy about how happy they are. Look At Illinois, its a mess. I am from Lake County and my family is still there. He got the votes on promises he has not kept and then he abandoned his state for a run at the presidency. Great dedication. Again this guy is slimey. He really stands for nothing, he has no real policy, his record is crap, (liberal left) if he votes at all. Its straight party line. Look at what the Dems have done with controle NOTHING place the blame on them, they are the ones who controle congress right now. NOTHING thats what you are going to get with Throwbama. A big fat zero. With McCain at least I know my taxes wont go up. I know the man cares for his country. I know that Sarah is hot (its a joke people)

As for graduating 4th 5th 1st does that mean that a guy who was last in his class and has 35 years as a top producer is not a good hire over the guy who is 1st and has 3 weeks experience but a good piece of paper. I have a high school education (hence my bad spelling) BUT make more than double of most of my very good friends who are very inteligent, and have very good degrees from very good schools. Placement has very little relavance when it comes to performance. I will take experience over sheep skin or pedigree any day and do, when I am hireing.

Have you ever looked at Obama's voting record in Illinois senate. An awful lot of "present" votes. That to me shows he didn't want to be responsible for a tough vote. Taking the easy way out. His resume is lackluster at best. But, he can lie better than Clinton.

People who want to run businesses create jobs not people who want to work. We are not talking about people who want to work. I feel horrible for those people, given the current situation. If I offer a service/good that people want then I have a business and can create jobs. If we need a bridge, then we have a need for that job. However if you were in business, if nobody wants what you got then you are out or if your product is not competetive to anothers then they buy brand x not your brand y, to stay competetive your brand y better be around the price of brand x, correct, or at least offer something more than brand x to equal the price increase in percieved value. Correct. I can not say that I am a bridge builder if I am a cat shearer. I as the owner of bridge building, an not going to have 10 builders if I can only pay 3 due to rise in cost and that goes down the line. Yes its trickle down economics but its what is reality and it is what we face given the global economy.

So very true he has talent and I agree with you as to how to hire. But when you where in business, did you hire someone with 143 days of experience, to run your company? Very simple, I doubt you would. I know I would and do not. I agree he is a very eloquant speaker, and has alot of polish, I certainly doubt his legitimacy for the Presidency. If he is from poverty, and he has nothing right, now he does but had, then why does his aunt live in Boston in the projects still. If he can not even help his family what will he do for us. Again I think he is a self serving egomaniac. I am afraid od this guy. He knows no bounds. Even if the Berg law suit is real and he is a sclub that faked his way up, it does not change his record, raise spending and with zero solution other than "cut costs on programs that dont work" wjat programs are those. You can not make that statement if you do not know the answer. What if, just a hypo here, what if all the programs ARE working. then what? What if the programs he is cutting are not enough to cover his proposed spending increases? Then what? All of his speaches, his answers are to spend more in this area and spend more in that area and this area "now there we need to look alot closer and will cost us more money" WHERE IS IT ALL GONNA COME FROM? The 3% on 250 and above. I doubt that that will cover. this is what I am saying with this guy. How, what , where, questions he has had to look at BUT STILL NO ANSWER

redder... It is simple, but I hardly would want to be president. The reason no one did such a simple approach, is ,well, simply this...there wasn't anything in it for them. And..your reply to serious..Only people create jobs. No company, or corporation "creates" jobs. They "provide" employment to sell something that the "people" demand. When I was in the business, I would hire a talented person, before an educated person. BUT.. if I found a talented, educated person, wow..That was truly a find.. As for our choice on Tuesday. McCain graduated 4th or 5th from the BOTTOM of his class. He was handed everything on a silver spoon by his father, or father in law. He certainly has no TALENT...Obama graduated with honors, came from poor working class people..and "appears" to have TALENT..

Anything else that I might have missed?

AS for throwbamas support

Yes he has the money thats for sure. The last couple elections gave the Dems a black eye. I am still waiting on Baldwin to move to Canada. He is the media choice, that is for sure. But his record does not support his candidacey. His experience certainly does not. He is a veryliberal man who wants to make himself more than he is. I do not believe that this is the best man for the job, not because he is black, not because he is from the midwest(kinda)Not because he is dem or repub, just because I would not let anyone who has 143 days of experience run my business, or hell even manage my business, and you would not either and if you say you wouyld you are just a LIAR. THAT IS MY PROBLEM WITH THIS WHOLE ELECTION. He thinks he is a ROCK STAR not a true servant of the people for the people by the people. This moron wont even accknowledge the flag, that I fought for, he is a PUTZ

Now to your gibberish comment

If that is what you mean then great you have an opinion. However make it your own and not the media crap that the TV has been spewing now for an eternity. Ugly news sells, built up by the media to get you all in a frenzy, and with you it worked and they knew it would. So you like alot of lemmings will follow throwbama off the perverbial cliff. Get an original thought, not all this stuff you have read for the last year. Think for yourself, if you are that inteligent than you would too, understand what I have said about business and it would make so type of sence to you. Also you would think back to who voted and passed free trade, again look at my earlier post, what is his record. How has he voted (liberal), who has he associated himself with, What has HE done. You can see clearly that your rants are just that, media inspired hype off the TV that has no substance or merit and simply can not support him as a wise choice for the Presidency

Next lets talk about this in real terms. Whether its percieved or real does not matter because those pulling the strings believe it.

Take GM, cost got out of comtrole, esspecially labor, plus the cost of goods, with Americans having less disposable income went to high. Call it greed call it what you ewant but it is fact. So demand went down, then throw higher gas prices and families had a revalation. I have six children I have a need for one of these vehicles and own one. The deamand plumeted, now take a plant that has sem better days and certainly is not efficient. What do you do if you are steering the ship. Well in good times you raise the price, all happened in the 90's. In bad you dump and run, either through lower production cost or by letting the ship sink. Now you choose if you are at the helm. Some must pay for the greater good. Now dont twist this into million dollar bonus crap. Yes I too believe that is iresponsible. It should not have gone down the way it did. But small business has to operate on the same field as the large and is effected alot faster than say a GM or an Exon etc

serious (if you really are)

First off do not attempt to use any form of intelect(you have none) Your SPIN is just that a spin. I will take responsibility of my own vote reguardless of what happens. Your throwbama has zero solution. And you have no concept of reality. You simply can not process a though can you. Let me simplify for you and please excuse my typeing because it is not my strong suit and I do misspell sometimes. Maybe I should have stayed awake in english but math was my strong suit. I too do not care about someone making millions as you put it other than they are my employer, or in some form effect my employer who intern effects me. If you do "care about the little guy" you would be smart enough to realize this simple very simple part of economics. We as business people have a certain percentage of profit that we must achieve in order to survive. Are you with me here. We can not fall below that, or we wont be here. I am not going to sacrifice my family for yours. Sorry its a cold hard fact but a real one. (I am sure you feel the same) Therfore, it is survival, I make xyz, I know I am not going to make xyz, so I am going to reduce cost so that I can make xyz, if that does not work out I am going to lower my fixed costs to reflect a higher profit so I can make xyz. Your job is the fixed cost. Got it. thats what is going on right now. There obviously is alot more to it than that but thats the overview.

redder-I’ll be the first to admit I’m going to regret making a statement to someone who-like his heroes-purposely warps what the “opposition” says in order to get potential supporters to think they mean something else. Of course I know jobs are being lost, people are losing homes, people are in trouble in general. Am I worried about your fictional “Ward” (if he’s making over a quarter mil)? and others who’ve been feeding off those who have cars in their lots with Obama stickers and all the rest of their employees? Not nearly as much as I am concerned about the little guy who has worked his * (asterisk) off for “Ward”, or more importantly, his wealthy counterparts, trying to make ends meet.
Give me a break-don’t try to prove a point by saying those with differing opinions have 3rd grade educations, because gibberish-when it’s spelled correctly-is very much what you’re passing off as knowledge and understanding.
No one is going to get us out of this mess easily-but when Obama wins you’ll be one of the first to post here within a month of his inauguration that you KNEW he would fail. If McCain would have won, you’d have all sorts of ready-made excuses for the slowness of the (hopeful) recovery. EITHER man would do what he can, but I don’t expect miracles from either. But neither do I think Obama would have gotten this far, would have the support of so many individuals and entities, if he didn’t have something besides smooth talk to get him there-but if he has been able to accomplish such a huge charade, we’d be in more trouble than you can even imagine, whether he wins or loses.

tom please if it was that simple you would be President

You see another lame duck throwbama fan that skirts the issue with false hope. It is a matter of simple economics, cost goes up, either reduce cost, or raise price, or both. You seriously dont think they are going to take a loss on product do you. REALLY. Case in point, gas went up, how mmany of you experience higher rates of shipping and or delivery and/or just price increases in your business. I thought so

whybesad.. You missed the point. I wasn't talking about how many coalition forces, . My point was had Bush, the drunken "D" average, Cheerleader, used the same tactics as the oil people over there used on us,, we would have brought THEM to their kness, without firing a shot. Instead they did it to us.

Ruserious

Read the paper, dont be a fool we have already at my company started the layoffs, more are comming. I hope you are not as ignorant to the ways of business as you post. The letter has been around the horn but its real people. Its real in Janesville and its real everywhere else in the country. WAKE UP. If you can not simply look at what is going on around you then do not even bother me with your giberish

What I have learned this election. One the media has chosen Throwbama as "their choice" and twisted the minds of many of us who pay no attention to politics into Throwbama robots. He slips left(way left) he dodges right never giving us an answer, always the same retoric. Nobody, seems to care. Nobody seems, to want the truth. Nobody, wants truth, they want speaches and the promise of free money. I swear its like the lottery or going to the dog track to watch poor people bet all thier welfare on the promise to get more for nothing. Its nothing but a shell game and watch his hands guys, HES STEALING THE BALL

redder, you're actually posting that phoney email that's been making the rounds from "Ward" as part of your pro-McCain rhetoric? You can't possibly have fallen for it, have you? There have been several posts referring to similar tactics, none of which I believe-but the fact that anyone thinks "punishing" others for their political beliefs will be affective, or is in any way the right thing to do make me glad that I, and apparently most, choose the opposite direction.

ZOOM---- you have been the classic "beat around the bush" person. Like REDDER said, can't you speak in your own words? As far as KLEEJ goes, at least he/she stepped up to the plate and put the kabosh to the child like conversation you were engaging in and had the humility to admit it and apologize to the fellow communty in here! KLEEJ was right when he/she said they would be the better person! Maybe it's time to reflect for you or at the very least, come up for air sometime!

Airforce

First thank you for your service. Does it not leave you scratching your head with this Obama character. He is as slippery as they come, and nobody seems to care. If elected I am possitive he will not make it to term. I smell another black eye impeachment. This guy will destroy everything this country stands for and that You and I fought for. Iys a simple disgrace. Look at the news, kids being killed in the streets, zero morality, nobody wants to work, all for nothing. Where did we all go so horribly wrong. Why are you people not embracing change, in the form of a proven hero. In the form of a sence of family and community. I can not even allow my kids to go trick or treating by themselves, because of the fruitloops out there. I sure hope we have change yes, but not throwbamas type of change.

The silence is deffoning

Look Zoom you want a fight I certainly will give you one. You want to debate I am right here bring all you got. I will systematically destroy you. You want to insult someone, fine but be ready to take it to, but leave peoples kids out of it or remarks about peoples kids you have NO RIGHT. Lets talk facts not your media driven dribble. Lets talk about his record. What he has done(not much) how hes voted in the past (far left) his own state thats in the toilet, with a Govenor thats as crooked as a country road. Or Chicago where living is an option. Or how about his associations, (not great choices) or the fact that hes got 143 days of experience, that you your self would not hire to run your own business. Or where all the money is going to come from in his SAVE THE WORLD speaches. Lets debate the issues and quit with the retoric.

I've been reading your posts now for weeks and I think its a good question.

Esspecially when you bring someones kids into you piece of work

Sorry for the double post. The second post includes capitalization goodness.

redder, you might want to check who started the personal attacks by asking if I was romantically involved with Obama.

Hey Zoom

Get on topic nucklehead

I know its just like throwbama, did you read the article on yahoo about how lets say inacurate his 30 min infomercial was. What a joke. I just hope like 2000 when Gore had it won and lost. I will laugh mu butt off if that happens again. The truth is pubbys dont poll, and you know as well as i do the military votes repub. Those numbers are not reflected in any polls. With all the undecided vote, I really do not think when it comes down to it that this slippery don, just like slick willy can escape his poor choices

I can't believe I actually have to explain this. The U.S. Congress includes the House of Representatives and the Senate. Congressman is a term used for both members of the Senate and House; usually Representatives, but not exlusively. You know, one of those words that can have two similar meanings.

": a member of a congress ; especially : a member of the United States House of Representatives"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

I can't believe I actually have to explain this. The U.S. Congress includes the House of representatives and the senate. Congressman is a term used for both members of the Senate and House; usually Representatives, but not exlusively. You know, one of those words that can have two similar meanings.

": a member of a congress ; especially : a member of the United States House of Representatives"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

redder..don't count on an answer, I have been asking the same thing for over 45 days...nobody is willing to face the truth of the hand out camouflaged as a negative tax rate.

4 days to go

'
LETS GET NASTY ;)

Zoom I see your getting personal again. Well bring it on. I have chosen to ignore this stuff for a while but your big ignorant mouth brings me back So answer the question that I am sure your 3rd grade education can handle.

How is 95% when 30% pay nothing a real number?

Leave out the BS and for once in "your own words" ansswer the question

Subject: Fwd: open letter to small business owners

Dear Fellow Business Owners:
As a Business owner who employs 30 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barack Obama, will be our next President, and that my Taxes and Fees, will go up in a BIG way. To compensate for these increases, I figure, that the Customer, will have to see an increase in my fees to them of about, 8%. I will also have to lay off 6 of my employees. This really bothered me as I believe we are family,here and didn't know
how to choose who will have to go. So, this is what I did. I strolled thru the parking lot and found, 8 Obama bumper stickers on my employees cars. I have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can't think of another fair way to approach this problem. If you have a better idea, let me know. I am sending this letter to all Business owners that I know.

Sincerely
Ward
JOOA Corp

Zoom Oct 31, 2008 at 1:04 p.m.
..
BTW, Mr. Obama is a US Senator, not a Congressman.
..
Once again, two different things!

Zoom Oct 31, 2008 at 1:04 p.m.
..
Perhaps proof reading your reference would be helpful.
..
… No such background checks are required for Barack Obama's current position as a U.S. Senator…
..
…Speculating about the granting of security clearances is something of a dicey issue, because the process is in many ways a subjective one….
..
Having a security clearance, and having “access” to security information are two different things!

serdan946, a 10 second search of snopes.com answers your question. Yes, Obama will get a security clearance. He already has access to sectret intelligence information as a Congressman.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/sec...

zoom, thanks for the thought, but your prayers won't be needed. My children have already been blessed...they won't grow up being force fed the same liberal media garbage people like you have. For that, I thank ("doG")!
Also, out of respect for the fellow bloggers here, I'm going to be the better person here and cease this little personal "war" of words you seem so intent on pursuing with me. For that, I apologize to the fellow bloggers in here, as for you.....I'll see you on the battlefield!

whybesad, do you really consider lowering marginal tax rates for those making over $250K an incentive? Most people have as much a chance of making $250K as they do winning the lottery.

serdan946, Obama and McCain would be denied a Secret Service job to protect the president or CIA or the NSA based on the fact that neither would be qualified. How should that effect your vote? Vote on the issues, not associations. Besides, if we voted purely on associations, then Joe Biden would be the only one qualified for President as he's the only one the press hasn't pinned a shady character association to.

Is it true that if Obama was applying for a secret service job to protect the president or CIA or the NSA that he would be denied a security clearance based on his past associations? If thats true he has lost my vote and its going to McCain!

Kleej said: "zoom~ if you noticed, I didn't accuse you, I'm just asking."

That was a poor attempt at backpedaling. Asking if I was romantically involved with Obama, and comparing Obama to Hitler in one of your deleted posts, illustrates your level of maturity. I'll pray for your two young children.

Tom you should stop drinking kool-aid. There are only seven providence's left under coalition control in Iraq. We are winning and democracy has taken root in Iraq.

Futurerichguy…how does asking a question of his stated tax policy get to the level of “sticking it to the poor”? If, in his plan, he wants to hand out money why does he not say it? Calling this a tax cut is a political misspeak to get elected. I would have more respect for him if he would just say what he truly intends to do...but by saying the truth he might not get elected.

whybesad. Sorry, This mess started the day Bush lied to the world. The oil people over there took revenge, brought us to our knees without firing a shot, or blowimg up a building. Bush's "in your face, up yours" attitude caused the rest of the world to show hatred & contempt for America, & Americans. He destroyed all the good that America had done since world war two.. That one lie caused this global mess. .

WHYBESAD,,
You forgot to mention people like Raines and Gorelich in regards to Fannie Mae. Don't forget the people who were getting paid millions of dollars at the expense of all the investors that were getting scammed either! You know, people like Christopher Dodd and the current democratic candidate for president of the United States.

futurerich guy how are the poor getting stuck? THEY DON'T PAY TAXES NOW!!! McCain supports a plan to make the poor people get out from behind the eight ball by providing incentives. Obama wants to just give them more handouts.

tom3205~ You'll get no argument from me on that! I agree. I think the whole thing is corrupt. People think because I'm not pro-Obama I'm naturally a "republican" (did u catch that "zoom"?) I'm not for either party! Don't people realize that dis-unity is killing this country? We will never change that because the govt. dictates everything we do and it's not supposed to work that way! Here's a common sense newsflash! As long as you have two seperate parties or more, you will never be unified! The republicans & democrats both take each other's side regardless if they believe in what their candidate believes or not! Leaders don't follow! Leaders LEAD and do what's right regardless of the cost. It's about the good of the many and not the needs of the few! The U.S. govt. and the political system has made a mockery out of the constitution and insulted the citizens of this country and WE just stand idly by and watch it happen and "just go along with it". People that aren't willing to confront reality and admit they might be part of the problem have no business complaining when things go bad....... it's called personal accountability!

It seems that Obama has thrown out reporters on his plane that endorsed McCain. So much for "change" and his ability to work across the aisle. What a elitist. Somebody disagrees with his views and/or hurts his campaign and he throws you under the bus (rev. Wright, Joe the Plumber) and then throws you off of his campaign plane (the reporters).

It seems a lot of people are more concerned with sticking it to the poor, like RetiredAirForce, by constantly asking how those who pay no taxes will receive a tax break. I recommend looking up the marginal income tax rates Obama is proposing vs. where they are now. The marginal rates under Obama will decrease for income under $200K, stay the same at $200 K to $250K, and increase above $250K. True some people living in poverty pay no taxes currently as they have enough deductions and credits to wipe out any net tax, but their marginal income tax drops under Obama. I suppose if you enjoy sticking it to the poor and keeping them in their place to help with your own delusion that you're better than them, then vote McCain.

The mess you refer to has only happened in the past two years. I'm thinking you are talking about the financial situation. Well, if you look back and see the democrats (Barney Frank & Co.)were in the tank with Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac. He (Barney Frank) said two months before the "mess" happened that Fannie and Barney were "solid" and that he would encourage people to invest in them. And you want this party in full control of our Country?

This thread is one of the logest I've ever seen ..So many interesting & intelectual comments.Reassures me that america is still vibrant. So here's a good question..Would we be in the MESS that we're in if the courts had NOT appointeed Bush as president ??? hmmmm...Ponder, ponder...

zoom~ if you noticed, I didn't accuse you, I'm just asking. I'm not the judge here, there's only one capable of that. Of course after your posts, perhaps there's two capable of it..... you and the other (since I'm being sensored here, his name is "doG" spelled backwards)

These aren't tax breaks there tax credits. The fact he wants to give money when it wasn't earned disgusts me. His plans do nothing to encourage individuals or families making less than 35,000 a year to get up and make something of themselves instead it encourages laziness and dependence. These ads and his 30 minute sitcom was a farce and a joke. Full of half truths and lies and McCains are the same. At least John looks at you and says if you want it I'll help you get it but you got to earn it. Sorry no hand outs for me I don't want them. I either make it on my own, threw hard work and perseverance or I don't make it at all. Before you attack me I do believe that Washington is full of crooks ON both sides and there is no good answer only the less painful one and the far left socialist isn't it. Thanks to the founding fathers for allowing me the freedom to express my views.
God Bless America!!!

It's just a form of welfare. Zoom that really didn't answer my question. Please try using your own words. We know your all in for Obama but, maybe get off his teat for a few minutes and speak on your own.

RUserious...I have read his plan, he states tax breaks for 95% of working families. I guess it doesn’t matter that over 30% of these already pay a zero tax rate. So the very simple question that no one cares to answer is how do you cut the tax below zero?

Gee RetiredAirForce-you weren't talking to me, and I apologize for butting in-but you asked someone "Still waiting for a response on how obamas scheme of 95% is not a scam."

Well, in answer to that, and with a tip of my hat to the veteran whose words I'm going to use: "It is obvious that you have not taken the time to read his plan to note the difference. If you have already read the plan and can not discern the differences I am certain that no one will be able to explain it to you."

Kleej, that comment wasn't very Christian of you.

Lakennedy…Your question “…received the largest tax breaks earn it” depicts how intoxicated you are on the Kool-Aid. Tax breaks are not income as many in the dem party depict. If the government reduces the impact an individual or corporation must pay how is that defined as earnings? Any money earned by the individual or corporation and then paid to the government is a tax and any money not paid to the government is affectionately termed “take-home-pay”. A tax break, no mater how much Kool-Aid you drink is not earnings it is keeping your own money…why is that concept so hard to understand?
*
Still waiting for a response on how obamas scheme of 95% is not a scam.
*
To your question on McCain’s plan vs. Bush’s. It is obvious that you have not taken the time to read his plan to note the difference. If you have already read the plan and can not discern the differences I am certain that no one will be able to explain it to you.

zoom ... are you romantically involved with Obama?

razorsharp knows people that know things? Who would have thought? You're hilarious...thanks for the laugh.

Spanky, I'll answer your question with Barack's own words:
“The challenges we face today — from saving our planet to ending poverty — are simply too big for government to solve alone,” Mr. Obama said outside a community center here. “We need an all-hands-on-deck approach.”

Zoom I'm still waiting for an answer. Cat got your tongue?

Lakekennedy that is great that you like to have your candidate retract from his promise. That's your choice. McCain could have done the same thing and gone after private donations. I like to take a person for their word. But, that's just me. You totally missed the point I was trying to make and that was he retracted on a promise already and you don't think he will retract again? Your blind if you think that he won't pull the wool over your eyes again. I wonder if he does that to his kids?

Kleej said: "I do have an issue with Obama for failing to even acknowledge the American flag during the national anthem! I have an issue with his hints at changing the national anthem as well. The biggest issue I have is when people in todays culture discredit our American history! Which is really what they're doing by making a mockery out of our national anthem like Obama has!"

Barack Obama’s grandfather, a WWII veteran, taught Barack the Pledge of Allegiance when he was a little boy and helped inspire his love for America. But that hasn’t stopped smear pushers from claiming he’s not a patriot.

These attacks on Barack's patriotism are completely false and designed to play into the worst kind of stereotypes.

Learn the facts and watch the video of Barack leading the Pledge of Allegiance on the floor of the U.S. Senate:

http://my.barackobama.com/patriot
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/sta...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Zoom~ my issue with isn't with the muslim faith or anything of the sort! I do have an issue with Obama for failing to even acknowledge the American flag during the national anthem! I have an issue with his hints at changing the national anthem as well. The biggest issue I have is when people in todays culture discredit our American history! Which is really what they're doing by making a mockery out of our national anthem like Obama has! Regardless of what Obama or anyone else thinks, the truth is, freedom in this country didn't come free nor will it ever! It came due to the sacrifices of many brave men and women who chose to stand up for this country when it's country needed them. People that dismiss this part of history need to understand why our history is so important and what we can learn from it rather than believe all the "bull" that our modern age intellects choose to spew! As JFK once said, "you cannot know where you're going until you know where you've been"....truer words were never spoken! Lastly, lets get one thing straight.....I respect everyone's opinion's regardless of their race, color, religion or lifestyle! It's what makes this country so great! There is everything right about living a principled life and making an effort to be a positive citizen in our communities! It's starts with character. Leaders aren't effective leaders without character! This is why Obama already has one foot in the grave! (that's my opinion!)

Let's get one thing straight. Obama didn't let me down by not taking finance money. I'm thrilled that he has raised as much money as he has. Usually the right raises much more. Bush still has him beat in total amount spent on a campaign, though. If he had refused to take federal finance money, and hadn't raised as much as he has this wouldn't be an issue. John McCain is just pissing and moaning because he doesn't have as much money as Barack does. Too bad. The amount of money he's raised is a testament to the amount of support he has. He's raised money from a greater amount of people than any other candidate.
Move on. Find a real issue.

Zoom do you think the government knows how to use your money better than you? If I want to give my money to a charity that is my choice I earned that money and should be able to decide where I want to spend my money and who I can give it to. Obama thinks government is the answer to everything.

Obama has failed us already and he isn't even President yet. He said he would use public finance money instead of private funding.He's willing to go back on that promise what makes you think he will hold true on his other promises?

And Kleej, you never answered my question below:
Tell us Kleej, what does the muslim faith, practiced by billions of people around the world, have to do with the flag or Obama?

Kleej is arguing about principles after getting his/her post deleted for comparing Obama to Hitler? Priceless.

Kleej: :) Right on. He owns me too! Isn't it great!

There are many who write in saying Obama must be qualified to run this country because he is doing a great job of running his campaign. He does not run his campaign, his campaign managers, advisors and committees run his campaign. Obama has no qualifications to run this great country, McCain does.

Watch out Kleej. They're watching you.

mooshoo, another thing...... I don't try to play "God" like the editorial staff at the Janesville Gazette does either! Funny how we're supposed to be such a free country, yet, when Christianity is even mentioned or other religions, PHONIES like the Gazette and many others act like that's not part of the freedom of speach ......... this is another example of how our constitution and our foundational base for this country is being negotiated. The media is in control and when that happens, they control the people.......guess who owns the media? The govt. does! Our corporate owned govt! People can laugh and argue this all they want and be in denial until they drop dead, but, it's still the truth! I've just learned to face reality. The media will not own me, I know who owns me, but, geez, I better not give my opinion on that either or you won't even have a chance to read this! What a farse!

mooshoo~ Of course! Here's the thing. Regardless of attitudes and beliefs, principles are never negotiated! They are rock solid. If your attitudes and beliefs include deciding what "right" is and what "wrong" is, I have an issue with that. Without a foundational groundwork for right and wrong, we have chaos! Like we're seeing in this country now. By principles I mean, I won't kill you and you don't kill me, I won't lie to you and you don't lie to me, I won't steal from you and you don't steal from me.....is that too much to ask? If people disagree with those principles, they need to wake up! This isn't about religion or faith either! It's about living a principled life and respecting others freedoms! I'm all for that!

Lakekennedy how would you feel if Obama go rid of secret ballots in the unions?

Lake kennedy- Obama wants to give tax cuts to 95% of Americans when only 40% of Americans pay federal income taxes. Obama wants the Bush tax cuts that reduced the tax for all people that pay federal income taxes across the board. So, if he repels those tax cuts the tax rates will go up for all tax payers. Then he wants to raise the taxes on people making $200,000 or more to 39%. (it used to be $250,000 and according to Biden it's $150,000) So, I'm not sure what the benchmark is anymore. And then give a tax break to people who don't even pay federal income taxes. Where is this money going to come from? All his programs he wants to instill is going to cost one trillion dollars. To think he won't raise taxes on all of us is just foolish.

Really? How, again, have the corporations that recieved the largest tax breaks earn it? By moving jobs overseas? By NOT creating more American jobs? I guess I'm confused...What you must mean, RAF, is that it's okay to spread the wealth to the upper crust of America and hope that they act in our countries best interest, but not okay to spread the tax money to the rest of Americans. Your plan definitely makes more sense. It obviously has worked, too.
+
You and I obviously see things differently. I'm wondering, if you could help me out, though. How, exactly is McCains plan any different than Bushs plan?

The democratic definition of spreading the wealth during the bush years…letting those that earned their money keep it.

“Obama is willing to offer tax breaks to 95%”…I guess it doesn’t matter that over 30% of these already pay a zero tax rate. How do you cut the tax below zero?

whybesad: Unless you've tuned out the last eight years, you can't possibly believe what you're writing. Spreading the wealth is exactly what is going on right now in America, and is what has been going on throughout our history. During the past eight years, the money, or wealth, has been spread to the top tier...the corporations. As a direct result of deregulation, we've seen what unchecked capitalism results in. Obama's plan is to spread the wealth to the middle classed Americans. Now, would you seriously like to argue that the Republican notion of giving the tax breaks (A.K.A. wealth) to powerful corporations with no real regulation is a better investment than spreading the wealth to the middle and lower classes? If you believe that these corporations will harness their greed and create jobs here in the United States because it is in our countries best interest, then not only are you blind to history, but I've got a bridge in Alaska to sell you. The main difference between Obamas and McCains plan is that Obama is willing to offer tax breaks to 95% of America, and McCain wants to offer tax breaks to %5 of America. The latter has alread been tried, and failed miserably. What I wonder is why is it okay for the Republicans to distribute the wealth to 5% of America, but socialist for Obama to distribute the wealth to 95% of America?

For those who forgot their crayons today the previous comment had some sarcastic content solely for entertainment purposes. No animals, tax collectors, or presiential do-gooder wives were hurt in the use of said content... thank you!

1. Spanky, you just described most ALL politicians and their parties(at the very least Rep & Dem). On another note, they say ignorance is bliss . . . what a blissful nation we've become!
2. Who would have thought some of those snide foriegn remarks about Americans were true!
3. I wonder if Pat Paulson or Frank Zappa can still be write ins!

I'll argue with someone who says Obama is no good because he knows Bill Ayers, or McCain is no good because he knows G. Gordon Liddy. But I won't argue that either of them are what this country needs. They are heads and tails of the same coin.
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Our last presidential election was a perfect example. Both Bush and Kerry belong to the same, secretive Yale organization whose powerful members swear allegiance to each other no matter what. So we were pretty much guaranteed to get a Skull and Bones president no matter what.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_B...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Tru...

Kleej, I agree with 100% of what you said in you previous post. It is about instilling a sense of values and morals. Now, is there any room for tolerance of others with different feelings, attitudes and beliefs?

The Republican ship is sinking...and desperation abounds.

Obama has no integrity and has all kinds of holes in his Character.

eksreigh, exactly! It all comes down to integrity and character which are the building blocks of leadership. This has to start in the homes with the children and they need to be raised with values and principles and solid family foundations in their lives! Problem is, we have too many adults who have no clue what morals and values and moral authority even are because they've been raised by that very media that's poisoning the minds of our youth right now! Only, now it's worse because the garbage information is more readily available through the digital age! People need to start getting the proper education and it's not sitting on a couch watching TV! It's going to take good people who are willing to step out of their comfort zone to get this thing right! Another problem, that would take unaverage people to do that!

Trying to level the playing field and making everybody "equal" is socialism. That's what spreading the wealth is all about.

Spreading the wealth is socialism. So is government run health care.

The big problem is that those 500 morons already in place will fight so they're not replaced. Their friends, including powerful media types, will ensure that any candidate who says we must get rid of those morons will be made to appear an idiot, The sheep will therefore think the only real choices are those candidates who will maintain the status quo.

Until this country is taken back by WE THE PEOPLE.....and I don't mean, the self serving goons with their own version of principles and values, futureteacher is correct! We could put the most moral person in office and they'll still be surrounded by 500+ morons who will eat him up and spit him out! The key here is "change"...not "change" that makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy inside either!

Unfortunately, the masses do not see beyond what the media gives them. So the point of change is up ahead on the path. Political revolution is a guaranteed thing to come in my mind. Spread the word, BOTH major candidates are going to make things worse far sooner than later!!!!!!!!!

whybesad, you are wrong again.

"The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.” Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it (“collectively,” no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist."
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/20...
http://www.pfd.state.ak.us/dividendamoun...

This guy sums it up nicely:
"I’m not really going to say that Sarah Palin is a socialist, but a much stronger case can be made for calling Palin a socialist than Obama. The attacks on Obama are primarily based upon minor increases in the marginal tax rate. While tax rates are a valid campaign issue, supporting slightly higher marginal rates on those making over $250,000 per year is hardly socialism.

Rather than being based upon tax rates, socialism is defined by government ownership of the means of production. Palin is only speaking of one segment of Alaska when she refers to Alaskans owning the resources and is not really a socialist, but she sure sounded a lot more like a socialist than the guy she attacks as being a socialist.

This quote is far more incriminating that the old Obama interview from 2001 which many right wing bloggers, followed by the McCain campaign, distorted yesterday. What this really shows is that finding a quote with a few juicy words means nothing. It doesn’t mean Obama is a socialist because he used words like redistribution in an interview any more than it means Sarah Palin is a socialist because she spoke of collectively owning resources."
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=5507

I C Y~
Good info. but, read the rationale of some of these posts in here! Whether Obama has ties with terrorist activity or whether or not his character is sound doesn't matter in this election. We have overwhelming proof it already, yet moral authority isn't a prerequisite in the minds of the new age intellects who simply want change. They've had the pants charmed off them by the liberal media who portray Obama as the ultimate, new fresh look that this country needs. But, hey don't dare bring that up because all the McCain garbage starts getting thrown in your face! Fact is it's irrelevent! I, personally, have never supported McCain or Obama, but, there is a lesser of the two evils! Obama is the lever for the floodgates to become open and finally do this country in. Sad part is, WE the uneducated, brainwashed society of people who were annointed to run this country have allowed the foundations of this country to be eroded into a mere platform of sand! There is an abolute distinction between RIGHT and WRONG, yet these principles have been somehow degraded and forgotten to serve the agendas of the self servers. God help us.

More Obama associations…
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….”A major news organization is intentionally suppressing information that could provide a clearer link between Barack Obama and Rashid Khalidi," said McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb.
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"The election is one week away, and it's unfortunate that the press so obviously favors Barack Obama that this campaign must publicly request that the Los Angeles Times do its job – make information public," he said.
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Goldfarb was referring to videotape the Times said it obtained of Obama delivering in-person testimonial in 2003 at the farewell party of anti-Israel professor Rashid Khalidi, who at the time was departing the University of Chicago for a new teaching position at Columbia University.
”
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….Khalidi is a harsh critic of Israel. He has made statements supportive of Palestinian terror and reportedly has worked on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was involved in anti-Western terrorism and was labeled by the State Department as a terror group.
..
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie...

futureteacher Oct 28, 2008 at 10:16
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Amen!
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You have read, and understand the course of human events!
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Now the big question, based on John Adams comment; were are we at on the path?

Sorry for the big run on sentences. When I previewed it there were paragraphs but I don't know how to make them stay that way... :)

First of all I would like to say that I agree with futureteacher that we need drastic changes in the way our government is run. I hate the politics too because it seems as if anymore it is not about "we the people" but how much money will you give me if I support your issue...-

Secondly I am an independant, I have voted for both republican and democrat candidates and it seems more and more that every election is more about who will do the least amount of damage instead of wow what a candidate! The election is less than a week away and I am still undecided and that is scary. People say check the facts. I have went to websires, read about and watched the candidates and I honestly don't know who or what to believe. I have heard the rumors and I have been told to check out independent sites but I have also heard that those sites have links to the candidates so who is to say big money hasn't been paid to sway them one way or the other. How do you know who to trust and believe unless you know firsthand the truth? I know that if someone has enough money that they can cover up, pay off, do illegal things, etc... so how do we ever honestly, truly know which source to believe? -
Every politician has done something that fingers can be pointed at so what do we do? Why can't we have a government that works together for the good of the people and our country?

Zoom not really the oil fields in Alaska are primarily owned by native Alaskans. They are just getting profits from the oil that is on their land. It's wealth distribution among owners of the land. They are making money from what is theirs. It's much different from Obama's plan of wealth re-distribution. The wealthy people have earned the money that is going to get taxed more and redistributed among people that had nothing to do with making that money. They have no vested interest in the process of the money that was made by the wealthy person.

gstrube is illustrating the irony that Palin has been saying Obama's tax changes will be socialist, yet her past comment "collectively Alaskans own the resources", is a central theme of socialism.

gastrube what's your point?

Obama's family values
http://www.suntimes.com/news/1119352,CST...

Now, let me tell you something. We're also going to have to change our foreign policy. Some of these changes that we're talking about are going to cost money. And when people ask you, well, how are we going to pay for some of this, you just remind them that we are spending $10 billion a month in Iraq. And if we can spend $10 billion a month in Iraq, we can spend some money right here in Pennsylvania putting Americans back to work.

(APPLAUSE)

But we're going to also have to do more than that. You know, I won't stand here and pretend that what changes I'm talking about are going to be easy, especially now. The cost of the economic crisis, the cost of the war in Iraq means that Washington is going to have to tighten its belt just like you have had to tighten your belts in your family.

It means that we're going to have to put off spending on some things that we need, and we're going to have to eliminate things that we don't need. And that's why as president I'm going to go through this federal budget line by line. We are going to stop wasting money in Washington. We've got too much to do to waste money on programs that don't work.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

You don't have to completely agree with someone to be friendly, or even friends, with them.
enough said.
Obama may have even been close to these individuals, but let's be realistic; do none of you have close buddies with completely opposite views of your own? Having a president that only listens or talks to people with a mind like his doesn't sound like a good person to me.
a good politician, perhaps, but not a good person.
Even if he really respects these people or their views, do you expect any radical policies or beliefs of those sorts to seep into our country's leadership? I trust the system, and I know that old acquaintances don't generally determine one's future morals or actions.

whybesad, I like your question idea. Another question you could ask, though, would be: "If you were a boss and while giving a job interview the applicant said that he was associated with an ex-convict who served 5 years of a 20-year prison sentence, that the ex-con advised shooting federal agents in the head, and the ex-con said he felt strength while listening to Adolf Hitler speeches in his youth, would you hire that applicant?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_L...
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The question changes dramatically if you add the condition that there is only one other applicant, you must choose one of the two, and the other applicant also knows people with less than stellar pasts.

I don’t know that I have THE solution, but I recognize the problem. Democracy has become a farce. Government has overshadowed freedom. Government has become an institution that is self-perpetuating, dark, non-trustworthy, and now invasive to capitalism. It is time for political change in the system not just the "two" candidates who become pawns in the bi-partisan escalation.

“Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny” T. Jefferson

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.” T. Jefferson

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide" J. Adams

I don't believe anyone can lower our taxes at this point. How could it happen? Our federal government is like a family that brings in $40K each year, spends $60K, and puts $20K on credit cards. The only way to get out of that trap is to cut spending and pay off the credit cards faster, not spend more and start paying less.
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A $1 trillion bailout equates to about $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. How can the government possibly pay that without raising taxes?

Thanks BostonBill.
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'nuff said...and happy voting to all.

It is disheartening to me that so many voters are much more interested in lies and distortions of the truth than the actual facts. I HATE politics. Lies, distortions, fabrications, more lies and the sheep are led to slaughter because they are so uninformed.
…
For the Obama – Ayers whiners, please read some facts. Maybe you can make an intelligent decision of your own without being a follower. Isn’t leadership what we all want? You can start by being one yourself.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...

JUST MY OPINION.
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God Bless America.

What lies and mis truths? It sounds to me like you are voting for a word "hope". Obama has pretty much said that he is going to cut taxes. I'm just simply asking when has he ever introduced a bill, supported a bill that cut taxes. It's kind of important that he will somewhat do something he is touting and making his whole campaign around. McCain simply doesn't want to raise taxes on anybody.

Im certainly not naive to believe that ANY politician has, will or can come close to doing everything they say they will. Or does not have any suspect associations in their past or present, including McCain.
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I do however believe Obama is the best hope to lead us out of the messes we are currently in.
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It is quite apparent that the McCain camp can't find enough of what they say Obama is lacking to build him up, so they continually try to bring Obama down with insinuations, half-truths and lies...but it's not working.
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I think everyone (at least everyone here) has their mind made up so at this point we could probably classify these posings under the header of HUMOR.

And when lefties like Johndoe simply can't answer questions and simply try to spin the truth back onto the person asking the question. You people are going to have buyers remorse. This Obama clown is a great liar and a very radical person. But, he can speak well (with teleprompter). Does that make a leader? What has he done to reduce taxes for the people in America while he has been in the Senate? Can you answer that johndoe? When has he EVER proposed a TAX cut either in the Illinois senate or the US senate? Simple questions for you to answer. These are the things he is saying he will do.

My point is FACT CHECKING which is woefully lacking. That's all.
In order to intelligently answer the questions it must first be established that they are based on FACT.
Sadly, more often than not, that is not what is happening.

futureteacher said,"The most frightening thing in this election is that a majority of you think that either one of the "major party" candidates are going to solve any of our country's problems. Both these parties ARE the problem! USEFUL change will never take place with both these parties shunning true democracy."
...
I appreciate your comment. In that you are a, "futureteacher", I'm sure that when you challenge your students with a comment like yours, you have a well thought out possible solution or a definitive answer when your students sit there scratching their heads. I would be interested in reading what your solution is. Thank you.

Johndoe here's a question for you. If you were a boss and had an person who wanted a job you were going to interview said that he was associated with a domestic terrorist and sat in the pew for 20 years and listened to anti-American hate speech. Would you hire him/her?

Johndoe quit dwelling man. WOW!! to think that I may have made a mathematical error. It was two not 6. Sorry. Time to move on.

For those of you who bash Obama, please remember that all is not pure and innocent in the McCain camp either. Obama might have had a relationship many years ago with Bill Ayers, but why is no one bringing up the radical association John McCain has with G. Gordon Liddy. The white supremist who held a fundraiser in his home with McCain and raised over $5000 and even gave $1000 to him this year. Liddy, who spent time in prison for Watergate, felt Hitler had an impact on him as a child and gave him strenth. Liddy advised Branch Davidians on his show on how to defend themselves against ATF agents. McCain claimed it was over 20 years ago and should not matter. It was actually only 10 years. Amazing how when it comes to Obama it is wrong but it is acceptable for McCain. I am voting for Obama and agree that nothing on this site will convince me otherwise. I have hope with this man.

whybesad, I think we have about the same amount of information on both major candidates. We don't know exactly how either of them will act as president. We're not building a perfect candidate from scratch, and we can't just look at a babysitter list and pick another name. We have two imperfect politicians before us, they both have past regrets, and the newspapers tell us one of them will become president.

I agree with futureteacher. McCain and Obama would each take us down the same basic road: bigger government, more deficit spending, more foreign entanglements, more erosion of privacy. The men's plans differ only in the exact details. The candidates who thought we needed a major course change were deemed "kooks" early on by the media and were quickly marginalized. Most voters act like sheep, oblivious to media biases and happy that most of the filtering has already been done for them. If you question them, they get resentful, saying in effect, "Of course I have a choice in America, you conspiracy nut! I can choose a hamburger, or I can choose a cheeseburger!"

whybesad wrote..."I don't understand the obamamanics out there who are going to vote for this guy. With all the questions surrounding this guy"
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Unlike the ones who continually spew falsehoods about Obama, we are looking for answers (fact not falsehood) so as one who presented this statement as fact; ""6 NYC policeman died from an attack from Ayers group"
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When are you going to answer the question...when and where did this occur?
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Of course we already know the answer...it didn't.
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Which means your credibility is where?
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But of course we already know the answer to that one too.

The most frightening thing in this election is that a majority of you think that either one of the "major party" candidates are going to solve any of our country's problems. Both these parties ARE the problem! USEFUL change will never take place with both these parties shunning true democracy.

Its bad enough when Kjeel wraps himself in a flag and invokes the name of God to justify his political beliefs. Kjeel, you are fomenting hate and purveying lies.

desertman-to me, you're above average based on what you said-and because you took it upon yourself to serve your country-(which includes razorsharp and those others who think that this presidential race must be one-sided-theirs are the only opinions with merit). He apparently thinks he is too far above average to do the same, or allow others to see things differently than he does without calling them names-even those who fought for his freedom to do so!
How come it is that when some of us on here have had the nerve to say how we feel about the war in Iraq, we were chastized for not supporting the troops, but this self-proclaimed "razorsharp" can come right out and call a veteran a "brainwashed American"? Apparently you, a veteran, are only deserving of his respect if you think the way he thinks. Not related, he might say? hmm, that line didn't work when I (we) said not agreeing with the war didn't having anything to do with our support for the troops.
I heard John McCain say he always aspired to be a dictator (really, google it), but sounds like some of his followers are already practicing.

I don't understand the obamamanics out there who are going to vote for this guy. With all the questions surrounding this guy and really not knowing to much about him (he won't even release his medical records). If I had this many questions about hiring a babysitter there is no way I would hire him/her. But, you people are willing to take a chance on this guy. You have been warned the flags have been popping up for months. Your basically voting for a slogan and not a person.

Kleej said: "What's next, a muslim symbol on the American flag?"

Does anyone really listen to this fear mongering bigotry? Tell us Kleej, what does the muslim faith, practiced by billions of people around the world, have to do with the flag or Obama?

Kleej said: "polert....EXACTLY! And Mr. Hitler nearly pulled it off..."

Another idiot bringing up Hitler. One more addition to the troll list.

razorsharp you must think there is something wrong with average. i dont. its when you think your elite that you can condem average as if its wrong or beneath you, to me there is something wrong. I dont want to be rich, I dont want to be a celebrity, I am ok with me. Just average. You cant buy happiness

if your in the military you salute the flag like i did while serving in the marine corp. now i place my hand over my heart, saluting doesnt seem to fit anymore. why are so many so people so worried about such little things while our economy, our jobs and ultimately our way of life become extint. the rich have been rich and will continue to be rich. the working man will always work and strugle. thats life! Go Obama the working mans president.

Why do the numbers keep changing? It was $250K on July 7th in August it was 200K and Biden has said nobody has to worry if they are making 150K a year. They are all over the board with this. The truth would be a good start for these jokers is that to much to ask?

mooshoo, I don't need any back up! I have truth on my side. So what's it going to be a double salute? One for you and one for president Obama? What's next, a muslim symbol on the American flag?

Mr. Kleej, taking sides with Polert on any issue does not add to your credibility or strengthen your arguments.

Polert said, "I do not hold the day confession to meaning month on him.". Am I the only one confused by Polert's rants?

Obama in Chester PA said $10 Billion a day in Iraq I just quote what he said in front of the 9,000 people in the crowed to see him speak. I do not hold the day confession to meaning month on him.

mooshoo, that's where you're so misguided! MY wake up call isn't coming Nov. 5th! OUR wake up call is coming Nov. 5th! This isn't about what's serves me personally, it's about what's best for this country. Try getting over yourself and looking around you once in awhile, it's a very liberating feeling! Maybe you can salute with two hands during the national anthem from now on......one for you and one for your future fearless leader named Barack Obama who refuses to. There's the example of a great leader!

Sorry for the typo. I meant to say "$10" billion a day, not "$16" billion a day.

I do hear, and understand what Obama is saying. I am a independent voter. Obama has said very little hard information about what his plans are till the last few weeks Joe Biden, and Obama have let it trickle out. World crisis, spend money in the world to improve standings, spread the wealth. He is using a method called conditioning peoples thought. One other world leader in history did the same thing during tough economic times.

Polert, I don't think we're spending $16 billion a day in Iraq. The latest I read said the number is more like $13 billion a month. Afghanistan costs us another $3 billion a month. Still, your point is well taken. The war in Iraq has been the second most expensive war in our history. Add to those expenses the huge trillion dollar bailouts being discussed, and I don't see how either McCain or Obama can avoid raising taxes.
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I haven't read anything about Obama wanting to put our military in Africa. I thought he favored less international intervention. But I know he is pushing for more domestic social programs. I don't know how he, or anyone, can spend more money, finance two wars, give trillions to bankers, and pay down our national debt, all on reduced or constant tax revenue. Obama's plan to pay for it may be to "spread the wealth."

Im glad some of you republicians are watching when obama speeks. Now if only you would clean your ears first then maybe you hear and understand what he's saying.

another good reason to to vote for Obama http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fort...

As I was watching Obama's speech from Manchester PA. I heard Obama say this morning Quote Obama we will have to improve America's standing in the world, and that means spending some money in the world. It will not be clear to everyone so you will have to remind people that we are spending 10 billion dollars a day in Iraq already. Obama is getting ready, and prepping everyone for our military being in Africa I believe. I believe he is using a method psychologist call conditioning the masses

Right on Kjeel, your wake up call is set for November 5th.

mooshoo........ wake me up when you're done.

Here we go with the excuses and finger pointing. Too often apologist Republicans who when confronted with the moral and legal corruption of their brethen in high office respond with stupid statements like Obama throws integrity out the window. Republicans like to think they are the moral majority, or somehow they have a corner on integrity, or they speak the truth. Most of that manure is shoveled to the public through the air waves of right wing nut talk shows hosts.
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My friends, there are elected Republicans who lie, steal, cheat, take bribes, and have same sex liasons in public restrooms and perform criminal acts. It is hypocrasy in the nth degree when these malfeasants are caught with pants down and respond by denying the transgression and refusing to take responsibility for their actions.
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Ted Stevens is a convicted felon. He is in the rarified company of being only 1 of 5 Senators of being convicted of a felony while in Office. That is pretty special, Senator. As a Democrat, I see the political hay being made because he stays in the race. It only strengthens my points that Republicans do not have a corner on the market of honesty, integrity, truth, honor, godliness or any other attribute they freely bestow upon themselves.

whybesad, I think you're right, Obama admits in his book that he used cocaine. (I didn't read the book.)
But there are also allegations that Bush used coke.
For a really wild read, check out the articles linking former assistant secretary of defense Richard Armitage to the Golden Triangle heroin trade.
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http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-01...
http://www.bwbadge.com/bush.htm
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-fre...

gstrube, yes, interesting story about McCain's father-in-law. From what I've read, the father-in-law, James Hensley, became extremely wealthy through his involvement in organized crime, and had indirect ties to mobster Meyer Lansky. The Hensley family sponsored McCain's political career. See, for example,
.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?p...
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/19/...
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http://www.omgili.com/newsgroups/alt/cri...
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http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/m...

whybesad
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"6 NYC policeman died from an attack from Ayers group"
.
When and wher did this occur?
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Still waiting...your link isn't close to what you claim.

mooshoo~
Imagine politicians involved in govt. corruption?! And to think it's only the republicans doing it too! It's just silly isn't it??!! I think Obama has it figured out though, just hang out with the evil doers and throw integrity out to the curb BEFORE you get into office........ the American's are more accepting that way.

I cannot think of anything more devastating for the Republicans than the story unfolding today. "Ted Stevens, a pillar of the Senate for 40 years and the face of Alaska politics almost since statehood, was convicted of a seven-felony string of corruption charges Monday — found guilty of accepting a bonanza of home renovations and fancy trimmings from an oil executive and then lying about it." Even more surprising is the arrogance of Sen. Stevens, who vows to stay in the Senate race in Alaska. Wow, talk about out of touch. This my friends is just one of a plethora of reasons why the Democrats will sweep into power on 11/4.

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Well, it looks as though the FBI is already discovering assassination plots on Obama. How does everyone feel about Biden becoming President?

Quote Dec 15, 2011 Obama it is all Bush's fault still. I know it has been almost two years but it is the best I got. I can not doing anything, but I can blame Bush.
---

Get use to hearing on every subject that comes up you will keep hearing Obama over, and over like a broken record. It was George Bush.
---

Obama will be like your little child that has every reason in the world not to get anything correct in world affairs, or with the economy. He will never admit he screwed up. But will repeat him self it is Bush's fault.
---

Next thing you know, whybesad will be asking us to squeal like a pig with a toothless grin on his face.

For all the people that point at anyone person for what is wrong with America needs to remember to point in the mirror. The French President in a speech in front of the EU stated that the American people have lived beyond their means, and there wreck less action have caused world crisis. He told fellow EU members that they need to be the worlds economic center, and keep their money in Europe.

McCain's associations coming out of the closet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081027/ap_o...

Ah, the true base of the Republican party once again shows their true color.

The same Ted Stevens that Palin went after in the "good 'ol boys" club. She went after that crook. Has Obama done anything like that?

Didn't Obama use cocaine?

Candalicia Rice has done an exceptional job of trying to fix all the stupid mistakes Dubya made. Her damage control is respected around the world. BUT, would she get the same respect working for Sara Palin ?? Palin may not even want her on the job.

whybesad....as unforunate as that was...two lost lives is still two too many...what of the other four of which you speak?
And Ayers responsibility in that act seems to be quite a stretch at best.
That act is attributed to the "Family" , an off-shoot of the Black Liberation Army, which does not mention Ayers as being associated with.
I'm certainly not condoning some of the things that took place, but I don't expect guilt without evidence.

What Obama though of his reverend before he was a liability to HIS campaign.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3kvW0cGZ...

Here is what Michelle Obama thinks about America. You know the one he husband wants to be the leader of. A thesis she wrote in college.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVwzUtonx...

We share this planet with hundreds of other nations. When we elect a president/vice pres. we HAVE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE, CONFIDENT IN OUR CHOICE. SO DOES THE REST OF THE WORLD. If McCain/Palin win, & McCain can't continue, would you feel comfortable/confident knowing Palin has her finger on the button that couild start world war thee ??? More import,. how do you think the rest of the world would feel about that.??? The rest of the world does not like us now. They would like us even less..if that's possible.!!! What was Mccain thinking !!!

And we thought Bush had troubles speaking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7...

Democrats in their own words saying there wasn't a problem with Fannie Mae and Freddie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7...

An explanation of wealth redistribution from Obama's own words. Yeah this is the guy we need in the White house. No wonder he wants you to vote early. The questions on this guy are just scary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3p...

Yeah sit in a pew for 20 years and listen to the hate speech from the racist preacher. Good enough of a preacher to marry you and your wife and baptize your children. But, do nothing. Except throw him under the bus when his association is "questioned". Change you can believe in.

Will this due? Or is that a not credible resource either?
http://www.americanissuesproject.org/pdf...
Where have you gotten your information on Liddy and McCain being so close? Did Liddy contribute to McCain's campaign? Was McCain ever on a board with Liddy? Did McCain ever endorse Liddy's book?

I BLAME BUSH!!!!!!!

It's like the person who created the fire and then puts out the fire and then he is called a hero.

gastrube you can link the finaincial crisis right back to the democrats and Obama. Franklin Raines ring a bell? Look a little into Barney Frank and what he said just two months before the collapse. It worked perfect for the democrooks. They created this mess and now the economy is in trouble and here come the dems looking like they can fix it when in all actuality they created it.

gastrube Liddy isn't part of the McCain campaign.

The link to the killings by the weather underground are in this link the 11th paragraph explains what happened.
http://www.geocities.com/southernscene/e...

The Ant and the Grasshopper

OLD VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!

-------------------------------------------

MODERN VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant sh ould be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, 'We shall overcome.' Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God fo r the grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients.

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house h e is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn' t maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2008

In the "mine is bigger than yours" department, Barack wins on Sunday. Denver Crowd for Obama rally attendance 100,000+, Fort Collins rally attendance 45,000 to 50,000. Attendance at John McCain's rally in Cedar Falls, Iowa: 2,000, Zanesville Ohio: 5,000. Glad everyone in Iowa and Ohio who still support John could make it to his rallies.

Republican view of the economy:

If it moves, give it more gas, if it ain't movin' fast enough, remove speed limits, if its your fault and you have an accident, blame Democrats.

whybesad
.

"6 NYC policeman died from an attack from Ayers group"
.
When and wher did this occurr?

'Government's view of the economy
could be summed up in a few short
phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps
moving, regulate it. And if it stops
moving, subsidize it.'- Ronald Reagan

mooshoo....blahhh

Rush Limbaugh...baahhh, Laura Ingraham...baahhh, Bill O'Reilly...baahhh. Get the point.

Bill Ayers never served a sentence for any bombings, because he was never convicted of them. In fact, prosecutors dropped charges against him so Ayers wasn't even tried. (Charges against Ayers and others were dropped because the government had collected evidence through the use of illegal wiretaps, mail intercepts, and burglaries of the defendants' lawyers' offices.)
.
Even one of the federal prosecutors of Bill Ayers in 1973 supports Obama, saying it's wrong to negatively link him to Ayers. As William C. Ibershof, the former prosecutor, said this week, "Sen. Obama had known Ayers during a period he was named Citizen of the Year in Chicago, not when he was committing those terrorist acts."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/cam...
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People seem to be confusing acts performed by Bill Ayers with acts performed by the Weathermen / Weather Underground. The Weather Underground continued its operations after Ayers left the group.
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When Ayers said "We didn't do enough," he didn't specifically mean that the group didn't plant enough bombs. He meant that Americans didn't do enough to oppose the Vietnam War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

Well said crafty

Sheep. You herd em in, and they'll believe whatever NBC tells them. Anyone who says Ayers is a good person is a moron. He is a bad person. Period.

Petcat- 6 NYC policeman died from an attack from Ayers group. He has never apologized for what he did. In fact he has said he didn't do enough.

Victory train's a-rollin', I can hear it coming down the track ... Go, OBAMA!

miniscule tax increases to the rich = 3%

massive tax cuts to the rich = 3%

Iguernsey…You are being a little to thin skinned. My comments were no more “attacking” than your words from Oct 22 declaring I forgot why spending was out of control. The bottom line on money spent “by” Washington is, all are at fault and trying to single out a party or a person solely is using misguided logic. If the President was at fault as many declared for the rise in oil prices why he is not being heralded after the prices have fallen? He should be not credited now or blamed previously, because solely he is not responsible. His policy can “steer” slightly but total blame or credit is not his. The rise in food prices linked to corn was steered by congress and the President due to influence of ethanol requirements. The total blame or credit for the rise is not theirs but did they have an effect yes. So to your original statement that “Bush and his administration have made a mockery out of fiscal responsibility” as I have shown is not truthful. As I stated the budget is controlled by congress not the President. If you would have stated congress lacked fiscal responsibility I would have agreed totally…as I have stated many times; IMHO term limits are needed for congress and the senate to get rid of the majority of the problem.

So why did they kill Tim Mcveigh, and not Bill Ayers. So Obama voters would you vote for someone that hang out with Tim.

The quote, though not without merit, was from a 1960's fictionalized account of Cicero-"Pillar of Iron" by Taylor Calwell, and she freely admits that statement was fictionalized as well. She was noted for her biographical novels (fiction) of both real and invented people who became great.
It is interesting that she also wrote "It is a stern fact of history that no nation that rushed to the abyss ever turned back. Not ever, in the long history of the world. We are now on the edge of the abyss. Can we, for the first time in history, turn back? It is up to you." Scary, huh? But at least that was from half a century ago. Can we do it again?

redder, that alleged Cicero quote, a favorite of Ross Perot, has even appeared in Congressional testimony going back to the 1960s, but it was probably made up in the 20th century.

The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.
-- Cicero , 55 BC

What Obama is guilty of is putting on a dog, and pony show.

If he (Obama) has said one thing and done another for his own benefit (Public finance) what makes you think that he will actually keep his promises on only taxing the "rich"? Again a matter of character and trust.

I think for one, assuming that someone doesn't know about something, which you did when you told me: "I guess it is time for you to read the US constitution" is a slight personal attack. Essentially you are implying that I'm an idiot. Just because I'm not former military doesn't mean I have less knowledge of the constitution or less love for this country than you or anyone else as your vice president so eloquently put, and then only retracted after many, many people were insulted. My wife's uncle is a die hard republican, I get along with him great. I just went out with some friends the other night and of course things turned to politics where a few people in the group said that they were republicans. No problems at all that night. I can get along with anyone without a problem. I don't hate republicans so much as republicans seem to hate "liberals." You don't know how many times at work I would hear people refer to the "------- liberals."
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If you claim that the slim majority in the house and the senate don't matter, that it is both parties fault. Then I would really like people to let it go that it has been the democrats fault the past two years. Since they hold approximately the same percentage that the republicans held. Therefore, since they currently hold a non-veto proof majority or a non-filibuster lead in the senate, it is not their fault either. I don't know if you have said anything about the democrats in congress but I know people have.
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If the facts are polarizing then perhaps it is because things really are that bad. Honestly I don't think that McCain of 2000 was that bad. If he had won the republican primary, there is a possibility that I would have voted for him. However, he has significantly changed since then. One analyst that I was listening to the other day stated that while McCain was a little to far to the left for some republicans, after he won the primary instead of moving more towards the center, he moved way to the right with the nomination of Sarah Palin. Which has excited the republican base but not much else. Another thing worth noting is that I tend to agree with some republicans ideology. I agree with smaller government, lower taxes for everyone, and a balanced budget. When was the last time a republican president did those things? I'm sorry but I have a severe mistrust of republicans after the last 8 years of Bush. I know that McCain is not Bush but he's not far off, and he is by no means the same man he was when he ran 8 years ago. Want proof?
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From October 12,2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHE...

I stand corrected RU. Your are right, its the marginal 3% on every dollar over a quarter million, not 3% more on the first quarter million. My main point remains the same. The overwhelming majority of Americans are not earning $250,001 of taxable income. Thus, most Americans are not worried about the extra three cents of taxes on the first dollar over a quarter million earnings. Its only a campaign issue for rich Republicans.

MooShoo-this probably won't help those who already choose to constantly mistate the tax plan on purpose, or otherwise don't truly study both candidates, you said "If you earn more than a quarter million of taxable income, your taxes will go up 3%"-but isn't it 3% ON THE DIFFERENCE? Not 3% on the whole $250,000+. Then it's just back to where it used to be, as a matter of fact?

Boys and girls, change is coming and I’ll tell you why. Start with a national economy that is worse than dirt. Add in a lame duck Republican President with the lowest popularity rating in history. Democrats are raising campaign contributions by a huge margin over Republicans. The RNC has had to abandon states in hopes that limited resources can win in battleground states where the candidates are close in the polls. Obama's strong nation wide organizational effort will have coattail effects in all state houses and Congress.
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Most of you already know my strong disdain for Gov. Palin. I have a lot of respect for Sen. McCain, who as a Senate “maverick” would work both sides of the isle for the good of the Country. It is my subjective opinion that his campaign will fail because the message of maverick outsiders for change never caught with the middle ground early on. Several weeks ago, vocal hate mongers at his rallies turned off the middle ground and incited the Democrats. Joe the Plumber has probably been his biggest success, but how long can you beat that drum? And what is the message? If you earn more than a quarter million of taxable income, your taxes will go up 3%. How many people do you personally know who find themselves in that awful situation of a tax increase on their earnings of a quarter million or more? If it comes as a surprise to you that we have a progressive tax system in this country that redistributes income, well then …SURPRISE!
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Sarah Palin’s positive ratings are dropping faster than the stock market. If someone think she is good for the Republican ticket, please tell me what she does other than fire up her dwindling base of supporters.
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Where does the McCain Palin Campaign go from this point forward? I think you will see Gov. Palin try to redefine herself in the closing days of the campaign as a springboard for the 2012 Republican nominee for President. A kinder, gentler Sarah would serve her well as it would all Republicans. That strategy works for getting the middle ground, but will alienate the base. I think Sen. McCain will struggle with his campaign managers who will increasingly urge him to pull all the stops. If goes to states where Obama has a big lead to bolster Republicans in close races for Senate, he has conceded the election, while making the political sacrifice for his party.

I never said he was guilty by association. It's just a matter of character and judgment is all. A man who sits in church pew for 20 years and doesn't know what he is preaching? Seems a little bit less than forthright to me. The preacher was good enough to marry Michelle and Barrack. He was even good enough to baptize their children and be Barrack's spiritual adviser. To endorse a book written by a domestic terrorist and have business dealings and sit on the same board as this man is pretty troublesome to say the least. To have business dealings with a convicted felon named Tony Rezko and having him donate money to each of his campaigns is also a question of judgment. Obama even bought a house from this gut in 2005 and was given a $300,000 discount on the property. Rezko sold the adjacent parcel to his wife for full asking price. Great leaders surround themselves with great people. If these are the types of people that Obama tends to surround himself with than that is a question of character and judgment. This is a man who could become the President of The United States. The most powerful man in the world. We should as a country have no questions of judgment or character from the person that could be the commander and chief of our armed services. Bill Ayres has never regretted what he did.

Iguernesy…leaving aside the non-personal attack I made. Your declaration that a president and a non-veto proof majority in the house and a non-filibuster proof majority in the senate is so powerful that the other party is without control is ludicrous. ANY measure brought to the floor in the senate can be (and could have during the whole period of his presidency) filibustered requiring a 60 member vote to stop it. So the insinuation that it is all republicans because the democrats had no control is baseless. Your rant on how things should not be polarized is completely at odds with your one-sided postings; if you are going to talk-the-talk perhaps you should walk-the-walk.

sorry for the bad grammer.

browneyes33, if you think Obama would be socialist, would you be willing to give up your social security and medicare benefits to prove your point? I haven't heard McCain proposing to eliminate those "socialist" benefits, or changing from our current PROGRESSIVE (i.e. unequal) tax system to a flat tax. You might want to educate yourself about socialism really is, instead of parroting the negative talking points that the majority of people care nothing about.

browneyes-is that related to the story about Michelle eating caviar (I've read it was Iranian) at the New York Waldorf-Astoria while Mr. Obama was enjoying a presidential debate? The same night she was at a rally in Fort Wayne, Indiana? (verifiable) Maybe another variation? Yeah-I have a hard time believing some of that stuff, too. That's why I make sure I can verify it in several different resources before I pass it on. Or do you mean any source that is pro-Obama is lying? Then that would be hard to research and negate them all.
By the way-where DO you get your information?

I'm so glad to read people's comments that understand the problem with the "real Obama." I too can not believe people just brush off this whole Bill Ayers thing, not to mention the other characters he has associations with. It is scary to think this person could be our president. Unfortunately the biased media (I'm sorry, it is) just poo-poos it and worries more about Sarah Palin's wardrobe. Guess what, they also forgot to mention that Obama and his wife recently spent thousands of dollars at the Waldorf Astoria in New York on caviar and wine from India. Get the facts people, read Obama's book, check something out that isn't from the biased media. If you want socialist ideas, move to those countries that already have that, I'm sure they are all "happy people." Why must people who work hard to better themselves with an education and are prosperous because of it supposed to be penalized? They made the choice to be prosperous by working for it, not looking for a free ride and a handout from the government. The people I know that are "prosperous" worked hard for their degrees and their job positions. Everybody has that opportunity, it's all about what you make of your own lives. I'm not saying other jobs don't work hard, it's the ones that pay well because of your education.I hope people enjoy their expensive free ride if this character comes into office. Don't vote for someone because it's the cool thing to do and Hollywood says so.

whybesad, there you go again...

"The guilt-by-association attacks on Obama are as much about tapping into a range of hazier doubts as they are about the details of any given charge, so I'm not sure they'd work on the better-known McCain. There is no shortage of mud like this on both sides, though, from Ayers and Rezko to Gordon Liddy and the Alaska Independence Party." Not to mention Keating.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1...

Stewy it looks like the free education you received has done wonders for your spelling skills.

Ayers, Wright & Rezko so much for judgement. Nobama Bin Biden

officerfriendly1 - oh you mean this Phillip Berg, he filed a lawsuit against Bush as well for his supposed involvement in 9/11:
..
http://video.google.com/videosearch?rlz=...
..
His lawsuit has no grounds in reality and no basis in fact. Phillip J. Berg is basing his lawsuit on the assumption that the images of the birth certificate posted on Obama's website is a fake because it supposedly shows evidence of being altered by photoshop. What a joke.
...
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...
...
When presented with this birth certificate, the conspiracy theorists, claim that Obama's mother, way back in 1961 had the foresight to fly back to Hawaii from Kenya. I estimate it to be at least a 12 hour flight, although I could be wrong. Then, she had to get to the hospital to get them to issue a birth certificate stating that Barack was born in Hawaii, all so that he could grow up to be president. She would have had to have done this not to long after giving birth. Phillip Berg, 9/11 conspiracy theorist, now claims that Obama was born in Kenya. Give me a break.

Hear Michael Savage interview Democrat attorney Philip J. Berg, former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania, about his lawsuit demanding Barack Obama present his original birth certificate to prove he was born in the United States.


http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/?pageId=225...

mooshoo~
Clinton was republican?!

Uh oh, John McCain the original anit-GW tax cut socialist.

The Obama campaign e-mailed an excerpt from a McCain statement on the Bush tax cuts in 2001 in which McCain said, "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle class Americans who most need tax relief." The Democratic e-mail also cited a McCain statement from the 2000 campaign that "I really believe, that when you are-reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more."

http://wcco.com/politics/barack.obama.jo......

As a liberl democrat I dont realy trly care about what Palin is wering or what she paid for it. Is that really a big issue hear? Let's look at the isues at steak people. Obama wants to make the less weathy able to make there rent payments and car payments. Rich people have enough money to spred arouns a little more and help out there neighbers who may not be as well off as thy are.

Darius, I must agree, the elected republicans have a well deserved reputation as the party of exposers, mostly indecent.

As Palin so eloquently put about there being "two Americas," statements like these only continue the polarization of this country. Do I want someone who polarizes the nation, or tries to bring it together? McCain and Palin have shown no indication that they will be unifiers, only polarizing the nation more. Seeing how irritated that McCain can get when challenged or put under pressure makes me wonder how he will be able to control his emotions in a real crisis. Anyone who watched the third debate could hear in both his voice and in his constant huffing and puffing while Obama was speaking, that under pressure, McCain gets emotional and frustrated. Do I want someone like that in control of this country? in control of the military? Emphatically, no. I want a president who can look at things objectively and not get all flustered when the slightest bit of pressure has been placed upon him. You are not living in a "dream" world to think things like this. It is vital to the perserverance of this nation, anyone who thinks that we can continue to be so polarized will only bring about the downfall of this country either from within or from an external force. It may sound cliche but "divided we fail." Obama has proven time and time again that he has the better temperament and will be more of a unifier than a divider.

RetiredAirForce - Speaking like a true Republican, instead of sticking to the issue, you switch to a personal attack. I am very familiar with the constitution and I know how government works. I guess I should have clarified my statement by saying Bush and his largely Republican controlled congress from 2000-2007 have made a mockery out of fiscal responsibility:
...
107th Congress (Jan 2001 to Jan 2003)
Senate
50 Republican
48 Democrat
1 Independent
House
222 Republican
209 Democrat
2 Independent
...
108th Congress (Jan 2003 - Jan 2005)
Senate
51 Republican
48 Democrat
1 Independent
House
225 Republican
207 Democrat
1 Independent
109th Congress (Jan 2005 - Jan 2007)
Senate
55 Republican
44 Democrat
1 Independent
House
229 Republican
202 Democrat
1 Independent
...
While it is true that Bush, or any president, cannot directly introduce legislation, the president is instrumental in directing policy for the union. Although not allowed on the floor of the house chambers, he can communicate with congress through the State of the Union address, where the president will outline legislative proposals for the upcoming year. In the event of a crisis or other significant issue, the president can urge congress to act on a piece of legislation. The President can veto any bill that crosses his desk. When compared by percentage of bills vetoed, Bush has vetoed a higher percentage of bills than all but 2 presidents in the history of this nation. Since January of 2001, Bush has vetoed 33% of bills to cross his desk. The majority of these vetoes occurred during 2006 and 2007 when the Democrats were in control of the house and the senate. Yes it does make me feel better to say that the republicans, and those in the house and senate included, have made a mockery out of fiscal responsibility. The republicans were largely in control of the drafting budget proposals from Jan 2001 until Jan 2007, no one can deny that. As so called conservatives, one would think that spending would have reigned in under a republican controlled congress and presidency, however it has not. That makes me feel better.

Darius: I think that the polls are indicating that the American public has woken up. These polls clearly indicate, as will the election itself, what the MAJORITY of the American people want. Your posts clearly show that you are the one who is still asleep.

BETTY
That was beautiful. Your dream button was certainly pushed for that! How do you type in your sleep like that??!!! It's time to wake up, however!

You know, I don't read what everyone has to say any more because we all have a opinion. The one thing that have made this election so beautiful, is the fact that people are communicating with one another from all around the world.

But what is sad, just how the World see the Republican Party. How day after day , the only thing they see is a woman wearing Lipstick, in her $150.000.00 duds, dragging her children around America, stirring up hate everywhere she goes. She has not gave a real interview since John Mc Cain got her out of Alaska without even vetting her.

She has been given the Key to our country by the Republican Party to be their WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. None of them have the courage to tell her that she is needed back in Alaska, ASAP, before she totally destroy the Republican Party.

You sat there with you buttered popcorn watching with happy faces every time her diarrhea of the mouth make her look like she is indeed a real Pit bull - barracuda. Do you really want to know why? Because she is only saying what you were not men enough to say.

Our country is in a WAR, in a country that we have no business even fighting in the first place. The only MAN that said "We are fighting the wrong War", Senator Obama, got more sense then all of you put together. Wall Street is just holding by a thread, yet we gave the same crooks who put our country in this predicament in the first place, a bailout!

This country need a REAL LEADER, someone that has a COOL HEAD, not two Rebel Maverick's that one like to kill animal's for fun, and the other one wants to keep us in this senseless War.

While MC Cain and Palin on United States soil, have show the entire world that they along with the entire REPUBLICAN PARTY, are the true "WEAPON'S OF MASS DESTRUCTION", Let's send them all packing and elect someone who really love this country, and want to UNITE us all.

" SENATOR OBAMA 2008 "!

mooshoo,
In regards to McEwen "hammering" democrats, it's more like he exposed them. He's also called out people of the republican party as well. This is why he chose to close the door on his political career. Regardless of your "opinion" of him, truth is truth. The man isn't a phony and he's got more integrity in his left toe than McCain or Obama ever thought of having!

jguernsey...I guess it is time for you to read the US constitution; the money (budget) is controlled by congress not the President. But keep thinking it is all Bush's fault if that makes you feel better.

Darius, I don't buy what McEwen is selling. His slant, pitch, spin or whatever you wish to call it may be truth to you, but I hear propaganda. He was a conservative Republican from a conservative district who made a career out of hammering democrats for political gain. Nothing has changed. We will just have to disagree on this one.

Will you have some of Obama's favorite powder on plate.

lol. If you're still around on November 5th, Darius, stop in and help us celebrate Barack Hussein Obamas victory. Wink Wink.

mooshoo
I can assure that Bob McEwen doesn't limit himself to getting the truth out exclusively over the internet. He doesn't hide behind a keyboard I can assure you. Another thing, he left his congressional duties because he knew he could make a bigger difference speaking amongst the communities all over the country and get the word out to the people of this country who demand to know the truth! He doesn't play the bashing the candidates game either. He puts everything out there in black and white and allows the people to base their opinions on the facts rendered! Kleej is correct, when the truth is told, the one's who can't handle it run for the hills! You must be halfway up Mt. Everest by now!

This will soon be over and Obama will be the President elect and in 4 years we will all being going "and why did we vote for this guy" "what happened to all those promises" "why is the un-employment rate 10%"

Who cares about the answering questions to the traveling press corps? Here's another question, why does McCain accompany Palin to interviews now? He was at the Katie Couric interview and was present at the Brian Williams interviews? After her non-answers in early interviews did the campaign feel the need to babysit her? Between the answers about the Bush Doctrine, Alaska's proximity to Russia as foreign policy insight, a supreme court case, and one instance where McCain has been a "maverick." I can see why she needs a babysitter. Obama just answered questions for the media yesterday. My opinion, why does it matter? We're 12 days away from the election, if you are still undecided you really haven't been paying attention. Answering questions to the traveling press corps really aren't going to give us any more significant insight.
...
oldtimer - Obama's mother and father are both deceased. His biological father had very limited contact with him. Obama was primarily raised by his grandmother.
...
I have to agree with justsaynotomath, I can't wait until this is all over with.
...
RetiredAirForce - my dissertation on discretionary spending vs. mandatory spending should have substantive value to voters, it is their money and they should be aware of how it is being spent. To make a statement like that essentially states that voters have no clue. We did hire stupid people to be in charge of the budget, Bush and his administration have made a mockery out of fiscal responsibility and it is nearly undeniable that McCain will continue his lack of said responsibility.

Lakekennedy, Sen McCain must be thinking the best thing that could happen right now is that Sarah Phalin goes from meltdown to spontaneously combustion as soon as possible.

Bob Mcewen is nothing more that a right wing knee jerk has been who is spewing political hack garbage on the Internet. He is a washed-up congressman. You know, one of those guys that has a 10% approval rating on a good day.

speaking of...intellectually defunct, where is Biden?

Taxing income below $250K at 36% and above $250K at 39% is socialism according to "Joe the Plumber". Good thing John McCain is consulting with pillars of the intellectually defunct.

If Biden doesn't look so "worst", why has the campaign been hiding him?

QUOTE---"Biden hasn’t held a press conference in more than a month, and Obama hasn’t taken questions from his full traveling press corps since the end of September."

SOURCE---http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4531447.shtml

whybesad: Biden has fully outperformed Palin during this campaign. The only thing Sarah could do to look worst is spontaneously combust. The McCain camp has spent so much time defending Palin, that he hasn't had much time to attack Obama. She was an awful choice, and I think the reason he'll lose this election.

MooShoo
You forgot to add that part where Bob McEwen actually holds honor and integrity to a standard!! I know how this works. When the truth is spoken, the cowards mock. I understand, I can handle it.

Every time Michelle opens her mouth she tends to say things that hurt the campaign. I wouldn't have her in the public eye either. Remember when she said she was just recently proud to be an American. She's a gaffe machine. Obama should keep Biden from talking to he is another gaffe machine.

oldtimer-wouldn't people really find something sinister in it if Obama dragged his deceased parents out to do some campaigning for him? I believe his wife, on the other hand, is in the public eye about as much as the other potential first-spouses.

Why is it you never hear anything about obama's Father or even his Mother does not make apparences and his wife just dropped out of the picture.

Bob McEwen is Kjeel's source of information. He is a right wing former congressman from Ohio. Tom Deimer of Cleveland's Plain Dealer described him as a "textbook Republican" who is "opposed to abortion, gun control, high taxes, and costly government programs." In the House, he criticized government incompetence and charged corruption by the Democratic majority that ran the House in the 1980s.

John Doe~ ask and ye shall receive!
Here's your proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDvexvIP5...

Iguernsey…Your dissertation on discretionary vs. mandatory spending lacks substantive value to voters. The countries finances are in a rut because we hired stupid people to be in charge of budgets. So how do we get out of the mess? Simple the same way every other family in our country does. Spend less than you make! If the government reduced spending across the board it could easily be done. Using simple math with rounded numbers the government received 2.57 trillion dollars and spent 2.73 trillion for FY07. If they would simply cut all spending by 6% it is break-even. Then if they freeze that spending until the debt is paid everything is fine. We all know that will not happen. But, what is very easy to see is that federal revenue has increased historically over the past ~10 years at 4%. If spending was held to an increase of only 1.5% yearly the national debt (yep that is the big one) would be paid off in 11 years at current tax levels. So we can all keep thinking an increase in taxes will fix our ills…but, until spending is held below expected returns nothing is fixed.

redder wrote...
.

"Obama made a mint on fannie and freddie"
.
Not saying he didn't...but since you made the claim...please show me the proof.

You want more associations... how about Franklin Raines. Obamas housing advisor. Here is an article I read written by a Democrat.

http://www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light....

zoom zoom zoom

Why such nastiness from you when you know you have no basic sence of reason and continue to becaome the lemming you are. Follow zoom follow close, because with the fact you will be jumping off the cliff

Where is all the money he promises going to come from? YOU

Who is going to get the benefit from all the money he spends? NOT YOU

how much simpler can I make it. To call me a troll, well maybe I am but the bridge I live uinder is mine. How about you renter. The job I have is secure, how about yours. My kids are getting straight A's and have coledge funds, YOU? I served in the Marine Corp and defended our nation for which I am proud and would do so again as will my children, like their Grandfathers, and Uncles before them. What about you or did you smoke weed and sit on your mamas couch. We can call names all day but is that really going to help or is it proving my point that Dems are a nasty bunch that nobody can work with and if they don't get thier way they cry and won't play at all. Thats what they have done up until now, that is what they will do in the future I am sure. Zoom and petkitty and some of the others have proven that by thier posts and thier actions with me and many others on here. I find it humorous some of you might not, however the truth is, when cornered kitty gets nasty zoooooommmer zipps and zags, then they attack or go away for a while. I at least am open to debate.

Now back top our regular program

Hey petcat I bet your wife is a troll
You the goat arent you. BAAAAHHHHHHHHH

Lamb to the slaughter, well you can probably live on 380- a week you moron LOL

God that feels good I love this crap

Look I am not a bad guy. I work hard have a large family in this community, and may know many of you. I just want whats best for my sons and daughters. Is McCain the answer, I don't know, but at least he says what I want to hear, thats what I have to go by. You can call me names and make me a villan if you so choose, believe me I have been called worse by better. But I ask you ARE YOU SURE? ARE YOU SURE that when you vote you have looked into everything. Have you read his book to know how he really thinks. Have you listened to his wife, looked into her back ground, checked him out fully. It seems to me that evertime someone challenges you, you get either vulgar, or you skirt the issue with some BS about McCain. I have yet to hear any honesty from any of you about what you want and what you expect. I have spilled my guts to you with a thought patern that you choose to attack. So be it, thats what makes debate fun. But, have you done all you can do or are you just lambs to the slaughter. Just a question. Only you can answer and what that is I don't care. I may vote Obama, I may vote McCain, but I will vote, and when I do I will sleep well at night. Can you? Look at your neibor, that has nothing to do with Bush, congress maybe but Bush nope. Other than a veto, what has he done. Congress has done alot that has gone wrong. Obama made a mint on fannie and freddie, so did alot of people, we pay for it. Just like we are going to pay for all the crap he promises. Oh you will get it I am sure, boy will we all get it. I just hope we get peace, security, longevity, and a future for our kids, not empty promises and more despair. I care maybe to much and I care about all of you too. I don't like to see things the way they are. So whomever wins, just do something possitive and get rid of the political BS

This, in my opinion speaks volumes of why we cannot afford Sen. John McCain as president:
...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
...
What many people forget, RetiredAirForce included, is that part of the reason why spending is out of control is due to discretionary spending, which includes military. In 2007, mandatory spending, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and others, totaled $1.45 trillion. Discretionary spending totaled just over one trillion dollars, 53% of which was military spending. When you compare discretionary spending to mandatory spending, there is actually a decline as to how much is being spent; in 1965 discretionary spending was 66% of the budget, in 2007 it was 38%. This is largely due to the increase cost of medicare, medicaid and social security. Some other aspects of discretionary spending that people are failing to mention are, highways and other infrastructure, and education. While I agree that we need to get spending under control, there are simply things that are going to increase whether we do anything about them or not. Roads and bridges need repair, our military needs to be funded, and our education system definitely needs to be funded. We are starting to fail as an economic power, a educational power, and most likely not to far in the distant future as a military power. Given the fact that we are engaged in two wars that are costing billions, at least $700 billion dollars since the onset of the war, the only way spending is going to get under control will be to responsibly pull out of Iraq, finish the job in Afghanistan, and return our military spending to a level that is manageable. While also getting other discretionary spending under control. We will still be paying for this war long after it is over in the respect of paying for soldiers with PTSD and any other necessary care that they will need. While we are at war it is unrealistic to think that spending will get under control and that an across the board tax cut for everyone, such as McCain proposes will benefit this country. McCain is riding on the fact that cutting earmarks, which accounts for less than one percent of all government spending will balance the budget. He also claims that an across the board spending freeze of everything except the military, medicare, and social security, in other terms a spending freeze on a paltry 27% of the total federal budget, will return us to a balanced budget. Keep in mind that 27% includes education, infrastructure and other important things. Also, all a spending freeze means is that you're not going to spend any more, but he doesn't say a whole lot about spending less, except for earmarks.

Well hi guys

I see you have had some fun with my posts. Good fun I hope. You once again fail to see the humor in all of this. As you can see, and simple questions I post (get it) to you. Businesses are surely starting to lay off many in our area more and more as Obaminator gets closer to winning the election. What and who are you going to blame then. I mean seriously, I post some crazy stuff on here to try and get you to think about all of your actions. You feel that at 250k its okay to raise taxes and give it to someone else, I don't like that. You feel his 143 days of experience is okay, yet put fault on anyone else that has more experience. You hate Palin (personaly I think she is hot) LOL joke guys. You want to have socialized insurance and/or medicine, when the dems who now have controle cannt manage a sandbox and have not done a thing. I feel it safe to say the war needs to end and end soon, just how we get the troops home safe is of course another marathon debate. But since I have been reading all of this dribble that quite honestly will accomplish nothing, I have yet to hear, just what will really change. I mean really. What is Obama going to do for me? Is he really going to lower taxes or is this just another election hype and my taxes go up again. Is my health care cost going to go down or is it more political BS to get votes?

redder'd be shunned in mt horeb:)

jguernsey said: "Redder's comments and posting of chain emails manufactured by the right wing internet rumor mill, reaffirms my belief that there are still too many people in this country who fail to look at things from another perspective, or at the very least, lack the basic capability to distinguish fact from fiction."

You forgot a another option. Redder has become just another troll. In contrast, the non-trolls I disagree with, like RetiredAirForce, at least use their own words to make a point.

jguernsey...If allowing people to keep more of their money doesn't work to expand the economy why does the government pass out stimulus checks? Why do economists say it is bad timing to raise taxes in a recession? If it is bad during a recession why is it good when not in a recession? The LARGEST problem in the government budget is not from the revenue side it is from the spending side. Until spending is brought under control we will always be strapped by politicians spending our money instead of us keeping our hard earned money.

By the way, someone mentioned the Berg v. Obama law suit about Obama not being a "natural born citizen. Berg, the guy who brought the law suit also initially believed that the United States Government was behind 9/11. Conspiracy theorist to the core. And someone was talking about people being idiots......?

dub190 - posting of a brief excerpt of a rather lengthy article, then not giving the complete link to said article. My verdict, nearly as bad as a chain email as it depends on preying on the emotions of the person reading it and is entirely reliant on the person doing no fact checking for him or herself.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...

Other places have looked into the Ayers-Obama connection or rather lack of a significant connection:

USA Today
http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:http...
...
Chicago Tribune
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/...
...
New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/pol...
...
CNN
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200...
...
The Washington Post
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec...
..
..
As Vice President, will Palin continue to have tax payers foot the bill to fly her and her family all over the country for events where they are not on official government business?
..
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwb6e...
..
If Governor Doyle were to have done this, it is my belief that you on this board who are republicans and possibly democrats as well, would be screaming for his head.

I haven't had much time to post lately as I've been really busy, but I have had time to read. Redder's comments and posting of chain emails manufactured by the right wing internet rumor mill, reaffirms my belief that there are still too many people in this country who fail to look at things from another perspective, or at the very least, lack the basic capability to distinguish fact from fiction. The last statement, taken from the book about Muslims, is the epitome of fear mongering that the McCain's campaign and his supporters have been not only condoning but perpetuating every step of this entire election. If you were to actually read the passage that the statement supposedly comes from, and have read the Constitution of the United States, and believe in freedom at all, you would understand why Obama made the statement not about Muslims, but about Arab and Pakistani Americans. Many people have already discredited this email time and time again, yet here we are less than two weeks from Election Day and people are still spreading it.

Why don't they talk about the issues? Because, it has been proven time and time again by many analysts not only in the media but in McCain's own campaign, that if they stick to the issues they will most definitely lose. It is a total facade. Here, we have Ms. Palin, wandering around the country, telling "small town America" that they are the "real America" and the "pro-America areas of this great nation." It was nearly as if to imply that the other areas, i.e. big cities (and I think the city of Janesville could be included in this) of this country are somehow "fake America" and the "anti-America areas of this nation." To imply that I really think speaks volumes of how out of touch the McCain/Palin camp really is. On top of it all is the fact that Michele Bachmann, a Republican representative from Minnesota, now wants "investigations" into who in congress is "anti-America." To me it bears a striking similarity to the red scare in the late 1940's. I whole heartedly agree with Jon Stewart's take on Palin's comment and this whole "pro-America/anti-America" Search youtube or google for the video of the show from October 20th he has some choice words at the end of his show for all y’all who think there are “pro-America/anti-America” areas.

I've argued with many people about this who at this point maintain the fact that it is good for the economy when more people invest. But, how does that effect the middle-class or anyone else for that matter? Surely it benefits the person who is investing the money, but did the tax cut help him create jobs? Did the company(ies) that he invested in hire more people because Bob Smith from Janesville invested a relatively small sum of $10,000 into the company? Did the CEO get a raise/bonus/stock option because the share price went up a few dollars over the course of a year? Were dividends paid as opposed to reinvesting in the business? In August of 2007 Sak's Fifth Avenue unveiled a new shoe department in New York that was so large that it needed its own zip code. Obviously there was enough of an increase in people who needed $300+ pairs of shoes or $1,000+ purses, that they needed a store that large. At the same time, Wal-Mart reported that although second quarter of 2007 looked great, the rest of the year may not be so good as there was already significant "economic pressure." Sales up at Saks and down at Wal-Mart? 70% of the economy is consumer spending, when 95% of people make less than $150,000 per year, doesn't it really make more sense to keep the consumer capable of spending? You're looking at nearly 130 million people who are going to have more money in their pocket to spend as oppose to someone who already has plenty of money that will probably not spend it. To think that someone who makes over a million dollars a year is going to all of a sudden spend more money because they had to pay (let's just throw a random number out there) $10,000 less in taxes is nearly laughable.

McCain rejected the tax cuts proposed in 2001 and in 2003, now he claims that a repeal of the Bush tax cuts would be a form of socialism. I would really like to find one person who can tell me honestly that trickledown economics works. Here's an example. Lets just say I am a financially responsible business owner, I've owned my business for about 20 years and I am making a solid $300,000 profit per year. I'm comfortable with my lifestyle and although I would like to make more, my current market has essentially reached its peak and I am unwilling to expand into other markets that may very well either require travel or opening a second location that I would have to sink time and money into staffing, training and other expenses. Believe it or not these people and businesses do exist. Along comes a politician who agrees with Reganomics, and decides to cut my taxes. Being financially responsible and a business owner, I already have health insurance, an extensive savings plan, a mortgage that is almost paid off, and no car loan to speak of. Where is the "new" money going to end up? Expanding the business? I think not. May I buy a few more things at Wal-Mart, or the Mall? Maybe, but I've been making a lot of money for nearly 20 years now, there really isn't much I really need. Pad my nest egg? Most likely this is where it will end up.
...
...
3000 character limit makes me sad

One really has to laugh at this clown Biden. Now he is out there saying that Obama will be "tested" in an international crisis soon after he is elected. He then claims to have this great historic knowledge (even says he is a student of history) and compares it to the likes of JFK being tested in the Cuban missile crisis.
.
Hmmmm, lets see here. Biden said FDR got on TV when the stock market creased. GREAT STUDENT of history there. The stock market crashed in 1929, way before FDR was in office, and they did not exactly have tv back in 29. Now he throws out the "test" that Kennedy had in the Cuban missile crisis, and does not even realize how badly he BOTCHED the crisis. I guess the guy should have actually paid attention when he was in college at Syracuse instead of just plagiarizing his way through school!

officerfriendly is a pretty smart chap from what ive seen. sry lakennedy...i have feeling he will say 'thanks but no thanks' to your bridge...and maybe even thro in a joe six pack wink for ya;) lol

No its just e-mails I get that I like to passs to you lovely people. The redder thing well, we can talk about that a little later if you like and I will make sure you understand.

redder-is your user name a description of how your face looks when you find out you haven't done your homework? Or do you assume no one else does, either? Things look a lot different when they're twisted.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/own...

Hey petcat

Kiss my (oh wait I cannt say that) you got it buddy. Pucker up. Maybe when the frootloop box is empty you can read something too.

From the Obaminator himself

Maybe all you Dems should read your Icons book and understand what he is REALLY about

From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'

From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!!
From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
* If you have never forwarded an e-mail, now is the time to Do so!!! We CANNOT have someone with this type of mentality running our GREAT nation!! I don't care whether you're a Democrat or a Conservative. We CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of character in a President. PLEASE help spread the word.

officerfriendly1, your comment has me laughing my butt off. Obama recommended "I'd like to teach the world to sing" as the new anthem?? Personally, I'd recommend "Flagpole Sitter" by Harvey Danger.

Good God, Officerfriendly. If you'd actually believe something that ridiculous, I've got a bridge to sell you. It's in Alaska.

Good old idiotic right wing defaming. No one ever believes it but the people who are already hell bent on being Republican. You're going to have to do way better than that, officerfriendly.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/sta...

Remember-when something sounds too bad to be true-it probably isn't (true).

From Sunday's Televised 'Meet the Press' Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag. Obama Explains National Anthem Stance.

Sun, 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama
to explain why he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.

The General also stated to the Senator that according to the United States Code,
Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. At the very least, 'Stand and Face It'

Senator Obama Live on Sunday states, 'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides, Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.

'We should consider to reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we as a Nation of warring people, should conduct ourselves as the nations of Islam, whereas peace prevails, perhaps a state or period of mutual concord between our governments. When I become President, I will seek a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation have placed upon the nations of Islam an unfair injustice. My wife disrespects the Flag for many personal reasons. Together she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past, many years ago. She has her views and I have mine'.

Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put aside my hatred. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path of hope. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America.'

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!

As soon as Polert started commenting, it was only a matter of time before Godwin's Law came to fruition. Polert even took it one step further by introducing the KGB to the discussion.

...defending...

"...In later year after he relieved himself of his own life..."

Who else was he talking about kraut60? Does it make you feel better defemding the resident troll?

Thank GOD Obama is not returning to Wisconsin now we can rest at night that we will not make the mistake to ask Obama a question. Heck I learned from Plumber Joe under Obama life will be like having the KGB in power. Never question your government even in your front yard.

I was waiting for some troll to bring up Hitler. Polert, you lose. Game over.

"Godwin’s Law was formulated by Mike Godwin in the 1990s and states:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
Godwin’s Law does not dispute the validity or otherwise of references or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis. As such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate in a discussion, Godwin has argued that overuse of the Nazi comparison should be avoided as it waters down the impact of any valid usage.

With the increase in the number of media for online discussion, Godwin's law is now applied to any online discussion - be they mailing lists, message boards, forums, chat rooms, blog comment threads, or wiki talk pages.

Traditionally in many Internet discussion forums, it is the rule that once such a comparison is made, the discussion is effectively finished and whoever mentioned Hitler or the Nazis has automatically lost the debate. The blogosphere has only heightened the prevalence of Godwin's Law with Nazi references being dropped across the political spectrum such as the liberal DailyKos or right wing religious strong holds such as Bill Donohue's Catholic League and intelligent design advocates the Discovery Institute."
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Godwin's_La...

I am amazed at how people spend so much time on here venting their anger and writing such long and vulgar comments on here. Our government will never be fair. People will always have their opinion...just do you part and cast your vote on November 4th and whoever gets elected...we are just going to have to deal with it.

polert-when I think of ""vent" the candidate", I think of someone shooting him. Surely this is not what you're suggesting? But your broad statement of a candidate who is "effective communication, and the masses loved him because this leader also talk of economic hope."....isn't that an ideal, or at least typical, candidate? Why, then, when Obama is such a man, do you compare him to Hitler?

When I step into the polls I want a person who will be honest with the American people. I want person who has character. Someone who will not run from a hard decision. We all know this Country is going to run into hard times. I want a leader not a politician. I don't want to have buyers remorse two months after I vote. We are voting for the President of the United States Of America not the President of the PTA.

The only ignorant people are the one failing to vent the candidate. Obama supports give me the time line of Obama's history. I bet you can not. There was a German leader many people rallied behind without knowing much of his history. He was a very effective communication, and the masses loved him because this leader also talk of economic hope. In later year after he relieved himself of his own life people wished they had known the real man. Today the world still know little about the history of Obama as well.

" I have never seen so many ignorant comments in my life."
.
Just wait until November 5th.

Come January it will be President Obama get used to it. He is American as I am, and I was born right here in Wisconsin. Get over it, it will be a landslide with Obama winning. I have never seen so many ignorant comments in my life.

old news except for his wife shooting her mouth off. check out the API wire. African Press International

Berg v. Obama continues to be ignored in the "media"
Sunday, 19 October 2008 14:15 administrator There continues to be little coverage of Berg v. Obama in the media. (For the purpose of this article, we define "media" as those venues available to the general public other than those exclusively available on the Internet.) Oops! This article has been up less than one hour, and we are getting overwhelmed with helpful folks sending us links. So, here's a course correction: Please leave a comment on this article with a brief summary of any news items you think important. Provde a link if possible. Note that links which express neutral, positive, or negative opinions are welcome - but, please don't post links to items which are loaded down with toxic comments.

Here's an illustrative sampling of coverage - some of which is media coverage as defined above. These items and any opinions or facts exprssed in them are not endorsed by this website.

Unconvinced Obama's a citizen ... that both candidates meet the 'test' despite the pending lawsuit in U.S. District Court of Pennsylvania against Barack Obama, the Democratic National Committee and the Federal Election... News-Star, Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:00:00 GMT • Found on Topix News

PRODUCE OBAMA EMBOSSED BIRTH CERTIFICATE - The Petition Site We signed the "PRODUCE OBAMA EMBOSSED BIRTH CERTIFICATE" petition! ... I would also like to know if Obama has dual citizenship (Kenyan) and if his father .www.thepetitionsite.com/1/produce-obama-embossed-b... • Found on Windows Live

Add Comment (73) Hits: 500Last Updated ( Monday, 20 October 2008 00:45 ) Read more...
New video posted at You Tube details the issues in Berg v. Obama
Saturday, 11 October 2008 15:59 administrator

why are republicians such whinners. colin powell was a good enough man to be secretary of state, but now he endorses obama and he becomes something less than human. kinda sounds off to me. but what do i know. just make sure you vote for anyone but paul ryan

I am sick up to here with my daily UNION circulated Obama endorsement junk mail! I cut all ties with GM and the Union over two years ago, yet, they have no problem wasting money on this garbage and sending it to my door! When I called to kindly ask them to take me off their mailing list, they simply said, just throw it in your recylables if you don't want it! ..... really? It's not me I'm concerened about! It's all the hands and eyes that have to be subject to this junkmail on it's way to my door that concerns me. They're advertising and brainwashing the public and using my address to do so! Very typical of the union and their never ending quest to force feed any democrat down people's throat because it serves their agenda!
The unions thinking: "INTEGRITY"? What's that? What's in it for us?

Political center in this country is a moving target. It is swinging to the left and rightfully so. We lost our compass bearings under G.W. He forgot he won the presidency, and never quit campaigning. He never figured out how to lead and compromise. It was G.W.'s way or the highway. He boxed himself, and his party into a corner.
*
At a personal level, I think Sen. McCain is a honorable man. He is a patriot, posseses a great sense of humor, and if elected, would work with the democrats. Unlike George Worthless Bush, he could actually lead this country. That being said, it is time for a change. Sen. McCain's failure was putting Sarah Phalin on the ticket, running a negative campaign, and trying to run as the outsiders for "change" is at best a joke.
*
That being said, I think the calm and thoughtful Barack Obama is a better choice for President. The next four years are going to be very tough. It is time for true change of leadership, and Barack has my vote and confidence.

Yeah Powell has been setting himself up for a while to make a Presidential run. It's odd how Powell has said that the Republicans have gone to far to the right but, yet they nominated one of the most center right candidates in a long time. And the Democrats have nominated the most liberal senator in the senate. Seems the democrats are going farther to the left if anything.

Wow...who would have thought, a guy who believes "Mr. Duyet" would be voting for Obama.

With those extra states he is sure to win, right?

SarahB...As a true American I believe all voters should be able to endorse and support any person they prefer. The hypocrisy of the left over Powell on this issue adds another layer of fun to read about.

RetiredAirForce: Having a hard time handling Powell's endorsement, huh?! Go, Obama ... I can feel the victory train picking up speed as I type this.

It is deliriously hilarious how the left wing decried Powell was part of the "lie" for the war and part of the worst administration ever and as such is a terrible human and American are today using Powell's support of Obama as a good thing.

Palin states "the Government needs to get out of our way" and a few moments later says "we must demand more Government oversight" Hmmm...how are the Republicans going to spin that one?

Obama is campaining in all 57 states. How are they going to spin that one?

gsk - You haven't provided anything. You think you are open minded? You have drunk the koolaid and there is little value discussing issues with someone whos views are so skewed. You are part of the few percent from both sides of the political spectrum that are irrational. Linking articles is not debating.

lakennedy Oct 19, 2008 at 9:52 a.m.
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You do realize that your vote is only representative?
..
As for polls, from an article;
…Reviewing the polls printed in the New York Times and the Washington Post in the last month of every presidential election since 1976, I found the polls were never wrong in a friendly way to Republicans. When the polls were wrong, which was often, they overestimated support for the Democrat, usually by about 6 to 10 points.
In 1976, Jimmy Carter narrowly beat Gerald Ford 50.1 percent to 48 percent. And yet, on Sept. 1, Carter led Ford by 15 points. Just weeks before the election, on Oct. 16, 1976, Carter led Ford in the Gallup Poll by 6 percentage points – down from his 33-point Gallup Poll lead in August.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/co...

Colin Powell's presentation

Computer-generated image of an alleged mobile production facility for biological weapons. Absence of more substantial proofs undermined the credibility of Powell's presentation. Russian experts have always questioned the likelihood of such mobile facilities, which are extremely dangerous and difficult to manageOn February 5, 2003, Colin Powell appeared before the UN to "prove" the urgency to engage a war with Iraq. Although the presentation failed to change the fundamental position of the UN Security Council -- mainly France, Germany, Russia and the People's Republic of China, Powell succeeded in hardening the overall tone of the United Nations towards Iraq. Powell also claimed that Iraq harboured a terrorist network headed by al-Qaeda operative Abu Musab Zarqawi (in a small region controlled by Ansar al-Islam), despite much evidence to the contrary. Powell also showed photos of what he said was a poison and explosives training camp in north-east Iraq, operated by the group. When this camp was visited by a British journalist two days later, all that was found was a few dilapidated buildings and no evidence or signs of any terrorist activity, chemical or explosives. Powell alleged that these training camps had been operating with help from Iraqi agents, despite them being in the northern Iraqi Kurdistan "no-fly zone", and thus outside of de facto Iraqi control. Powell also claimed that Iraqis visited Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and provided training to al-Qaeda members, although thousands of Arabs from many countries did the same. US intelligence agencies have found no evidence of any substantive collaboration between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. While Colin Powell's statement to the UN may have been accepted as "proof" by many in the USA, this was not the case in Europe, where there was widespread scepticism of any links between Iraq and al Qaeda. The UK government's intelligence services did not believe there was any link at all, given the mutual hatred between
Colin Powell holding a model vial of anthrax while giving a presentation to the United Nations Security Council.In March 2003 the US government announced that "diplomacy has failed" and that it would proceed with a "coalition of the

The people that criticize,disagree, and warn about Obama's lack of knowledge to be President but later endorses him to obtain a future job worry me more about who Obama associates with than anyone else. Powell, and Biden both early on said Obama did not have the vast knowledge needed to be come president. Now they would like a new job now so Obama is the greatest, and has learned so much on the campaign trail. What?

Minan:
You mean "so far" in my lifetime. I can guarantee you (yes, guarantee), that if McCain is elected and dies in the first term (which, according to actuary math, he has around a %33 chance of doing so), Sarah Palin will be the worst President. Not just in your lifetime, but in history.

kiowamohican:
I know that you are a huge fan of Rasmussen, so I have a question. Does Rasmussen conduct its survey's by random digit dialing? Also, todays daily tracking poll shows a lead for Obama with %51 to %45 for McCain. It still shows a much larger lead in the Electoral count (I forget the exact numbers, but Obama has 260, and McCain down around 170). There are still 115 or so up for grabs. Pollster.com shows much different numbers for the electoral count. What do you think of pollster.com, and why is Rasmussen better?

Who suffered the most----John McCain or Jane Fonda?
Who suffered the most----John McCain or the Peaceniks?
How well would you have stood up to the torture of the Viet Cong? Are you that strong or are do think every one is Arnold or Chuck, who take the beating and keep on kicking? (Of course those are MOVIE HEROS).
Do you know the Code of Conduct for the Military?
Also, please note that most of what McCain would have known during his time in Hanoi was obsolete and changed so what info could he give the enemy that would have benefited them?
Jane gave more aid and comfort to the enemy then John McCain and she wasn't tortured that I know of.
Do you think Obama could or would have stood up under the torture endured by McCain?
CODE OF CONDUCT:
I. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

II. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in comand, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

III. If I am captured I will continue to resit by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid other to escape. I will accept neither paarole nor special favors from the enemy.

IV. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisones. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of thos appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

V. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability.. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and allies or harmful to their cause.

VI. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my action, and dedicated to the priciples which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

I'm sure a few of you out there will do your best to revise this to prove your point of view but before you do, ask your self if you could live up to the standards this code asks of you for an hour, a day or five and half years, especially if you are seriously injured.

gstrube Oct 19, 2008 at 8:40 a.m.
..
You have clearly demonstrated your lack of grasp of the English language, Mathematics, and reasoning.
..
I shall leave you to your labyrinth of irrational emoting.

gst - look up the word sarcasm in the dictionary.
You are unable to provide any facts regarding the great conspiracy. Take some time, study up on some real issues and then come back to discuss.

"Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama for president". I've always admired Powell immensely and was thrilled to hear him announce this on Meet the Press this morning.

ICY I suppose your definition of "objective" is Fox News. Give me a break.

As objective as MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS.
Of course if the Dems pass the Fairness Doctrine next year then the networks would actually need to hire some conservatives to do the news. MSNBC would implode from just thinking about it.

I re-read this "opinion" piece (of crap) by Krauthammer. It at best is muck racking by a political hack. Krauthammer is the guy who a while back wrote an op ed stating that history will be kind to George W. Bush. Now that proposition is a whopper of monsterous proportions.

gstrube Lets leave it at this. You are unable to make your case for the conspiracy you believe has transpired. You only linked a PBS article that four people read (three times by you). So lets stick to debating issues. Lets keep the conspiracy theories on a different thread along with Roswell and Bigfoot.

Did anyone else get one of these in the mail? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erik-ose/p...
If you read toward the bottom you will see who sponsered my wife's copy. I know a couple other woman who got a copy. No men though. I was wondering if any men in the area got one, or were women the target?

petcat~
I'll add something to that post regarding people who hate this country getting out. Not sure if I agree with it, but, I do respect your opinion. I would also say this, if people LOVE this country, help preserve it! We don't have to be miracle workers here. We all need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves what can we do?! We can start by re-educating the people in this country and feeding them the truth as opposed to the garbage media that's being force fed into our generations heads! People have a false perception of "thinking on their own".....the media is owned by corporate American companies with a specific agenda......the mission isn't to teach you to think freely, it's to make you think like "they" want you to think! Think about that!

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 10:24
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Your cognitive dissonance is intriguing.
..
Although Mathematics, and logic are “objective” your attempt at using them in your tirade however, is flawed.
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I will assist you once again;
..
You used a search string consisting of: “left”, “wing”, and “PBS”. This provided a resultant of 383,000 by your statement.
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You then used a search string of: “objective” and “PBS”. This provided a resultant of 2,570,000 by your statement.
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Now, using basic Mathematics (A+B=C), or (A-B=C) your resultants should have either provided a sum double any single resultant, or zero, to be of empirical importance / “objective”.
..
See, once again, I am being of assistance to you.

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 8:50 p.m.
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But I already have been of assistance to you.
..
1. I have provided you with a proper definition of “objective”.
2. I have provided you with a way of objectively determining that PBS is not such.
3. I have provided you with an objective alternative to your “worst President ever” statement.
..
See, your doubts have already been alleviated!

gstrube
Oct 18, 2008 at 7:53 p.m.
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What part of “objective” defined by Webster did you not comprehend? Perhaps I can be of assistance?

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 7:16 p.m.
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Besides, I have no horse in this race. So, you are mistaken on that assumption as well.

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 7:16 p.m
...
Maybe you are not familiar with the word “objective”
..
From Webster:
Main Entry: 1ob•jec•tive
Pronunciation: \əb-ˈjek-tiv, äb-\
Function: adjective
Date: 1647
3 a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment> bof a test : limited to choices of fixed alternatives and reducing subjective factors to a minimum
..
Based on your statement, you acknowledge that there is perceived bias, thus it cannot be objective.

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.
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Worst Republican President?
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Well, by currently available facts, I would conjecture that Herbert Hoover has him beat by quite a stretch, based on failed monetary policies. As for the future, only time will tell?

That is your evidence? Come on. The Supreme court made its rulings and the administration lost. To my knowledge they have not circumvented the Supreme Court. As far as the District attornys - Bush fired eight - Clinton fired dozens and it was well within each presidents perogative to do so.

The difference beween us is you are voting because of some percieved conspiracy that most citizens don't believe. Kooks on both sides are ruining the process for the rest of us. We can have honest disageement on issues -that is proper but some obviously spend to much time on Daily KOS, DU underground or listening to the other crazies like Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

I'm all for ignoring the troll who called McCain a traitor. Now back to our regular programming.

gstrube Oct 18, 2008 at 6:24 p.m.
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I take it that you were legitimately citing the PBS link as an objective reference?
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Unfortunately, PBS’s Left-ward tilt has been documented well enough, that you should have just referenced DailyKos!
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But please don’t accept my statement. Just Google “Left wing” and PBS!

Whybesad - you are correct.

Gstrube - LOL another link to some obscure article? Really? I'll ask again - in your own words please enlighten us with evidence the current administration attempting to undermine the constitution and forming a (pick one) theocracy/fascist regime/dictatorship/monarchy.

Check this out! We can have a little fun with this thing too!

http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog...

Why would Obama and the democrats want to tax a company or corporation that is making $250,000 the same as a company/corporation that is making 23 million a year? And when they can get that tax from these companies who is to say that it will stop at 39%? Especially with a dem controlled senate and congress and the White house. The tax rates will just keep going up. They won't cut spending.

So what your saying is your voting because of some perception of yours that Bush/Cheney were trying to create some sort of defacto dictatorship? And that McCain is going continue to strive for that goal? All other issues are secondary because of this right wing conspiracy? Out of curiosity please enlighten us as to the many constitutional trangressions Bush/Cheney did to undermine the fundamentals of our Republic.

petcat

I have but one question, ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID OR ARE THE DRUGS YOUR ON EFFECTING YOUR/WHATS LEFT OF YOUR BRAIN. SHUT UP AND GO AWAY, please really go away nobody including Dems can even make up that kind on nonsence. Please what a jerk

Bush the worst Republican president? Maybe.
Bush a bad Republican president? Hard to say. He certainly wasn't a conservative. If your voting for Obama because "Bush was bad" then your part of the problem.

You have to feel sorry for people on this blog that can't think for themselves and just add links to other stories.

Federal tax reciepts from 2006 to 2008 went from 2.6 to 2.8 trillion. The deficit increased from 150 billion to near 450 billion.
Is it a coincidence that the democrats took control of congress in 2006 and the deficit tripled? One of my biggest disappointments in the Bush administration is spending. I cannot understand why he wasn't vetoing these spending bills. Even then the deficit was down to 150 billion and I believe a good chance of being balanced by 2008 if circumstances had been different in Congress.
Reciepts aren't the problem - spending is.
With all the recent bailouts of banks, congress is talking about another "stimulus plan" of 300 billion. Add the 500 plus billion of new spending programs Obama is promoting we can easily have a deficit of over one trillion dollars in 2009. How the heck can you tax the so called rich enough to cover that kind of bill. The answer is you can't.
Thats why split government is the best for America similar to what occurred while Clinton was in office. A veto proof Dem senate majority and control of the house and presidency would be a disaster.

As much as I respect a free press in this country, I wish it was an honest press. It is fine to endorse a candidate but its opinion needs to be kept on the editorial page, not the front page.
The press is letting its self turn into not a reporter of fact but a biased reporter of half-truths and plain out made up news.
America use to have newspapers that stood for the American belief in honesty, truth and honor. Today they want to be king makers. They've choosen who they want and look out for anyone or thing that gets in the way of THEIR CHOICE.
Again, just like you and I, they have their right to an opinion but they need to keep it on the editorial page.
This also goes for the TV media. Too many have let their personal beliefs color their commentary and have turned the last few elections into, what they want, a down and out, headline attention grabber for ratings and monetary gain. Consistently repeating over and over how one side is using negative tactics well the other sides is never mentioned in any way but a favorable light.
The question is, are we electing the candidate we want or the candidate that the media want? These last few days before the Election, read and listen with an unbiased mind. If you want the media to determine the next President of the United States, so be it, I know I don't.
Freedom of the press---Don't let it die.
Expect more and demand more honest, fair, reporting so that we the people can make a sound decision. Let it be our decision, not theirs.
Remember, a Free Press is important to a Free democracy. With out it, we will end up with a dictatorship that tells us what to believe and suppress's any opposition. If you believe in America, let your choice be the one that protects freedom of choice for all. Make sure Freedom of the Press IS Freedom of the Press.

petcat: I thought Bush would stop at nothing to get re-elected in 04, but apparently those in the Obama camp aren't any different. This is change? People like you aren't doing Obama any favors if he is going to supposedly take the high ground. McCain is a hero who rather than leave, opted to stay and continue to be tortured until all the men came home. It's one thing to disagree with his policies, but character is one thing McCain can't be questioned on. In a sea full of Washington sleaze, McCain is one of very few decent, flexible, and reasonable politicians. Granted, they are all liars and crooks for the most part, but that considered, McCain is still a good man.
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villalamesville: I totally agree. Regardless of who gets elected they will either have their hands tied or put us even further in debt. They've both announced enough tax cuts and spending programs to do nothing more than continue W's spending spree and push us even further into debt and financial instability. At the end of the day the people of America have more control over our own fate then any president. The media has created a near panic across the country. The sooner we ignore the press and go about our lives the sooner we'll start to recover. Granted, there will be a tough road ahead, but no president alone is going to fix this mess.

Now let me get this straight. If I have a million dollars in the bank from last year's income, that's wealth. But if I put a million dollars in the bank that I earned today, that's not wealth? RetiredAirForce and Kiowamohican, I think you guys are straining out gnats. Besides, Democrats have, in the past, talked about taxing assets such as bank deposits and long held securities (kind of like real estate taxes). With Democrats in total control, don't be surprised if that scheme get resurrected to the delight of the "sharing the wealth" constituency (and forget about estate tax reform, unless you consider an increase reform).

It's obvious to me that whomever is elected the country will be divided more than ever. Neither candidate will be able to garner any support from the other side. I will end up supporting Mccain but I am not voting for him because I'm particulary fond of his policies. I am voting more against policies that I consider unwise that will be implemeted by a Dem majority government.
- A tax policy that will be social engineering. Spreading the wealth? Doesn't it seem wrong that 40% of the people don't pay a dime in income taxes? Dems will not be satisfied with a mere 3% higher rate on higher earners. It will certainly go higher than that. The early sixties the top rate was 91%. With a tax code that has over 60.000 pages our system is a joke that encourages finding loopholes and evading taxes. Until we smarten up taxes are going to continue being used as a tool for class warfare.
- Fairness doctrine = free speech limits
- Fair labor act = anti business and fundementally wrong by eliminating the secret
ballot.
- Huge new taxes on business forthcoming. Increases in payroll taxes and new environmental taxes will crush new investment and jobs.
- New limts to second amendment rights.
- Legalization of illegals which will bring a new wave of illegals.
- New federal laws that will overturn state's limits on abortion.
- National healthcare which we will not be able to afford so it will turn into a rationing disaster. The nightmare of the British health care system will be upon us.

The majority of Americans are in the middle. This election cycle will swing hard left. There will be shifts in other cycles. Unfortunatly the specter of Pelosi and Reid encouraging Obamas socialist tendencies is going to be painful.

Some individuals never let facts or truth get in their way. The only right answer is theirs. So keep telling it like it is Retired Airforce. Eventually they will see the light at the end of the Tunnel.

petcat...you continue, on a regular basis, to make up stories or repeat items from the left wing blogs that are not true. Please tell us what law was broken by a POW being tortured that spoke to protect themselves? Please name any US POW in history that was “hanged” as you say McCain should have been for the same acts…we are waiting…and waiting. While you are at it you might want to read the code of conduct...it is the "rules" service members live by if they are captured.

I identify with what most would call a supporter of spontaneous order to answer 98% of the problems that face America. The people need to carry a ruler so every time a politician reaches for money, laws, and private rights we can slap their hands away. http://www.acton.org/publications/mandm/... Every politician would hate if the people were to demand this. It is the only way to save American

Zoom:
Both McCain and Obama mentioned "Joe the plumber" during the debate. Even if it is Mccain that keeps bringing the guy up, it's pretty sad that the media and Democratic operatives are now digging into the guys life. I really think this could turn out to be a big turning point of this election. You may laugh at me saying that, but I have worked in polling, and this is the sort of thing that really turns people off who are on the fence. A guy like "Joe" is just someone who comes off as the every average every day American worker. When you start attacking someone who is perceived as "my neighbor, my friend down the street, ext", it really can have damaging effects. I will bet you that when the next set of polling numbers come out next week, you are going to see the race near a dead heat.
.
This race has all ready been very easy $$$ playing on Intrade (www.intrade.com). I bet heavy on McCain 2 months ago at around +170. I then hedged out (taking Obama at +115) when McCain surged ahead in the polls after the convention. I've hedged back and forth a few times after that, and am now sitting on profit no matter who wins. All though much more profit with McCain. Got to love a Presidential race, and a volatile stock market to boot! It's been a traders dream the past few months!

Income and wealth are hardly the same. You are not taxed on wealth you all ready have. If I have $10 million sitting in the bank that money is not taxed, except for any interest I earn on it. That's the fundamental FLAW in income tax. Many rich people have no income at all. The only taxes they pay are taxes on interest and dividends. That's why the whole concept of the "fair tax" is an idea that really makes sense. A tax where you tax consumption and not income.
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The tax code is ALL READY just a massive social engineering scheme. With Obama it will turn into an even bigger social engineering scheme; as many who don't pay a single dime in federal income tax will be getting a tax rebate (just going by his own words of 95% getting a tax cut... 30% of Americans don't even pay federal income tax). That is nothing more then welfare; of course.
.
Whatever tax policy is enacted you are still sitting on MAJOR problems with revenues to the treasury falling in midst of a coming recession. The real fear is that congress won't cut ANY spending (these clowns NEVER cut spending, and it doesn't matter who is in power). Then you will see programs paid for on borrowed $$$, which will just add to the all ready massive $10 TRILLION debt, and create huge inflation problems.

speaking of corruption, look what Joe Biden has been up to... http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008......

And the entertainment level increases!
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Barack Obama is being sued about his Citizenship.
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BERG v. OBAMA et al
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-p...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kMI_P_ol...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7y3i82nS...

crafty: that was a good analogy...only i think youre sorta off on wht president obama wants to accomplish. jmo. he doesnt want to make everyone c's. he wants there to be more b's and d's and fewer a's and f's. if i have to give up an a, and graduate with a b to give an f a d to allow them to graduate as well and make society better. well f n a i m in.

polert…Wealth and income are not the same, if they were the government would tax both at the same rate. If you inherit a family fortune you are wealthy and might never have to work again; if you never work again you no longer pay income taxes. Not sure where you get the statement “no work to gain wealth”. My position was/is simple. If you want the population to “raise their social status” (dem position --- great divide between middle class and rich) how does increasing taxes on those trying to be rich increase their status?

Air force how did Ross get wealthy if their is no work to gain wealth.Income, and wealth are the same. Take a look at the Gump chart Ross has http://perotcharts.com/category/national...

Zoom...you claim that it is ONLY 3%, how did this TINY 3% cause this large disparity you claim between the rich and middle class during the past 8 years?

billnewbie...Obama's tax plan doesn't tax "wealth" it taxes income. The wealthy don't have to work. If Obama wants to help the middle class why does he want to increase the INCOME taxes of working people? This ensure working people will never be wealthy!

To take money (wealth) from someone who has more of it and then give it to someone who has less (either cash, a benefit or tax cut) whether it is new wealth (income) or old wealth (assets) is wealth redistribution whether you call it that or “spreading the wealth” or even phrasing it philosophically such as “from each according to his ability to each according to his need (– Karl Marx)”. Yes, the net result of wealth distribution will be to “narrow the gap”. Stating that it’s only 3% and therefore it’s really not wealth redistribution is like saying that a baby elephant is really not an elephant because it’s so small compared to an adult elephant.
Is the present tax system fair or perfect? Hardly. Congress, it seems, has a loophole for anyone with a large enough campaign contribution. These loopholes for sale have been available since the income tax was invented. Many people think that the progressivity of the tax rates (larger percentages for higher income) is fair. But they might not think so if they found that groceries were going to be so progressively priced. How would you like to have to pay $6 for a gallon of milk that your neighbor only has to pay $2 for? Your neighbor may think that’s a great idea, but you might not like it. Would that be fair? To him it may seem so, but I doubt that it would seem that way to you.
Does anyone really believe that for Obama to set up all the new spending plans he has, he can finance them with only a 3% tax hike on “the rich”? If so, you may be too young to vote as yesterday wasn’t 18 years ago.

Ross has a plan for America which everyone can understand. He is independent of the rat race so he has a clear messages http://perotcharts.com/home/ give it a look then apply what you have heard, and connect the dots your self.

Look Obama not a citizen LOL LOL

Now his wife shoots her mouth off AGAIN and is going to cost him dearly. Thats funny right there.

I just wonder if Obama and this tape is going to fold THEN WHAT? No seriously what happens? Does Hillary get a nod yuck

I think the well off people already pay their fair share of taxes. They actually pay a majority of all income taxes in America. We have a spending problem in America in our Government.

whybesad Oct 17, 2008 at 5:59 p.m.
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Acknowledged.
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I will repeat, that I am thoroughly entertained by this whole process, and the amount of emoting that both sides of the bi-factional ruling party members put into this.

The story on the website about Obama's wife. That's what I meant. I think his "wealth re-distribution" is going to hurt him more than anything. People don't like that at all. 84% don't like wealth re-distribution. It's our money we should be able to do with it what we want to.

whybesad Oct 17, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.
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What part of “Now this could be very entertaining” is conspiratorial?
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Please expand on your reasoning for the above assumption.

Crafty that was a good analogy of what Obama wants to do in a pretty simple manner. A manner in which the simple minded liberals should be able to comprehend (that may be a stretch).

I_C_Y- You don't have to use the conspiracy theories against Obama. There is enough truthfulness out there that should show people what kind of man they are putting their faith into to run this Country.

Just what this country needs is an accelerated program that puts more power over the people into the governments hands! Nothing like encouraging mediocrity, rewarding the inept and penalizing the difference makers! Just makes a person feel so upbeat about the future doesn't it??

ZOOM
yes I understand that for the 50th time but its MY 3% not yours you pay it if you want I dont want to