On abortion, Obama running fast from record

I have known a few atheists and I think for them it was more of a incident that turned them off to the church, or all churches, and therefore god. I am not speaking for all atheists, but for some its as much as a non belief in god, as it is a revulsion for organized religion. “if god was real, how could he let this happen…. He must not be real…” I am at a loss to see how its so difficult for people to have tolerance of other’s choice in faith. Whatever a person believes, its their choice and their right. Now to the subject of these babies, until I see the entire bill I will not agree nor disagree with Obama’s decision. One article or a 15 sec. tv or radio ad can not give us the entire picture.

The US should immediately pull out of Chicago !
Body count -- In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago , 221 killed in Iraq .

Sens. Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike), Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley).....our leadership in Illinois.....all Democrats.
Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago . Of course, they're all blaming each other.
Can't blame the Republicans, there aren't any!!!!

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25%highest in country. (Look'em up if you want). Chicagoschool system one of the worst in country.

This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois .
He's gonna 'change' Washington politics?

God doesn't believe in atheists.

Well bibledude you seem a lot more educated than someone else on here. har de har har

clouds555 or obama2008 whoever I'm talking to..No I don't claim to know everything about the subject (the more I learn the more I realize I don't know as the saying goes) I was just mentioning that for one of the degrees I have I had to learn Greek. Since you seemed to be presenting this cup as some sort of concrete evidence that Christ was a magician of sorts so I was pointing out that the experts I looked at concluded differently. It actually pointed to the supernatural qualities of the historic person of Jesus rather than denegrate Him. I was mentioning that the title Christ was not spelled correctly on the cup and that the word the man said was magician was not the normal word for magician, which is magus, from which get the name Magi from. None of them seemed to know what the word really was. This is not evidence for what you purport. That's the only point I was trying to make.

By he way, it was 30 pieces of silver, not 13. It seems that atheists may have trouble reading as well, when they bother to read at all.

It is amusing to read the rants of atheists. They claim that God is fake yet they get quite hostile toward anyone who disagrees. Why the hostility? If all who believe in God are fools, what is that to you? You claim no heaven, no hell and yet you seem to become greatly vexed whenever the subject arises. Why? Why get so agitated about superstitions you claim to be immune to? What is it about this belief that drives you not only to condemn the belief but also the believers? Could it be that you are not as sure as you would like to believe? Perhaps the abyss you believe lies at the end of life lacks the assurance that you seek. Maybe you can’t quite drive out of your mind the suspicion that death may be a doorway. Modern science offers no comfort, it cannot detect beyond what it can observe, it can only speculate.
I think the claim made by an atheist that Christ was a magician is the most ridiculous thing I have read yet. If one denies the existence of God, and all gods, then one also denies the existence of the supernatural and the miraculous as that is what God is. Yet a magician is one who manipulates the supernatural to perform tricks or miracles. So which is it atheists, is there a God, and the supernatural, or not. To claim both is nonsense. Sometimes, in their zeal, atheists expose their own intellectual dishonesty, such as when they proudly proclaim they don’t read books such as the bible and they ridicule those who do, yet they state with pretentious authority their opinions on what is written there, perhaps relying on the opinions of other atheists whom the usually can’t even name.

Oooh, Clouds/Obama2008, after looking back at previous posts and how you use capitalization and question marks, it's pretty obvious you're one and the same. I will refrain from making any snarky comments, although after all the insults you've thrown, it's pretty tempting.

www.nrlc.org. so this is what they put at the end of the article. why not just state the facts in the story ???

here are the facts on where the candidates stand on abortion. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27035396/

in my haste to answer you i see my husband was still logged in by mistake,oops. i'm sure i will not here the end of it from all the god/bush lovers on here. i should stop listening to them anyways (rock county) is full of haters and blog where people have half a brain. the gazette has poorly written articles and all of the blogs do not even answer questions or debate. it is all one sided conversation. i have argued abortion/bush/religion until i am dead and the conversation would never advance any farther. plus Obama will be president in less then 3 weeks !!!!!

Obama2008-Thank you for sharing the article on the cup. The first thing I noticed was the Greek word that was supposed to be Christ has no "i" in it and is therefore not the title Christ (Christ means Anointed one and is not a name). Also the word for magician is magus not the word on the cup. I have my degree in this field and can read and write Greek and have never seen that word before. I then went to see the other sites and what non-Christian experts had to say about it. Most were skeptical as to its authenticity and doubted that it meant Christ the Magician. If it did they interpreted that to mean a magician who was invoking the Power or name of Christ in their magic. This was a common thing in the books of Acts if you recall the Sons of Sceva attempting to use the power of Jesus name to cast out demons or Simon the Magus (Magician) attempting to buy the power of Spirit of Christ for his own gain. As to the religious cultic practices you mentioned syncretism was a common practice in the 1st century and something the church battled. These myths are simply that, stories with no validity. The story of the gospel unfolded in space and time, in history, with names of Kings, Governors and places we can go and see. As I said I would be happy to give you a lengthier response using the anonymous system the Gazette has. Do I believe the miracles of the scripture recorded regarding Jesus? I do. I do because I believe the God you say does not exist stepped into time, spoke as no man has ever spoke, lived as no man has ever lived and performed miracles no eye had ever seen. If God had truly become man I would expect nothing less.

Obama2008-"do read anything but this blog and the bible?" Was this directed at me? I don't recall attacking you, I thought we were having a friendly discussion. Actually I read quite a bit of other material but thank you for asking. I can address the points you raise. May I email you using the Gazette's email system? The answers are quite long if I go into detail.

"It should be remembered that in Alexandria, paganism, Judaism and Christianity never evolved in isolation. All of these forms of religion (evolved) magical practices that seduced both the humble members of the population and the most well-off classes." "It was in Alexandria where new religious constructions were made to propose solutions to the problem of man, of God's world," he added. "Cults of Isis, mysteries of Mithra, and early Christianity bear witness to this."

do read anything but this blog and the bible ? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26972493/ at least Jesus existed unlike God. at the same time you expect us to believe his mother was a virgin and he turned water into wine. how about the 13 pieces of silver he was betrayed for just like every other myth. they were all betrayed for 13 pieces of silver. it's the same story line again and again. give me some facts that you can back up with evidence and i will waste some more time explaining basic knowledge to you that you continue to ignore.

Obama2008-What source are you reading that is telling you
Jesus was a magician? Is that your own theory or is it from a book? I'm not being argumentative here just curious.

who is the fool ? the one that worships a magician that's who !

Obama2008 - Only a fool says there is no God... Only a fool...

Angelwings: I am sorry for the pain you have endured. It must be heart-rending. I hope will be able to find peace. Hugs to you across the wire.

your the one that commented on it when you had not even taken the time to read what had been said. so i guess you need to ask yourself, why ? you ask me where i get my information and i provide it for you but then you say other politicians have done the same thing and provide no information to back up your claim. why don't you provide this information like your always asking me to do? your double standards are typical of republicans.

Read the article. Last paragraph sums it up. Why just pick on Palin? What about the other politicians? How many of them have not used taxpayer money to attend such functions. Now then, what does this have to do with Obama running from his stance on the abortion question, which I thought was the purpose we were to make comment on?

you still missed the comment. it is 3 below the link. we were not even talking about the palin affair anymore you were. you should try catching up before you post.

Clicked on, read, still no mention of Palin extramarital affair. So have to assume you either sited wrong site or based it on the NE headline. Whatever, no sense dragging this on. Your mind is made up. Have a nice day and Good-bye.

you need to read, like always. the msnbc comment is below.

What was the source of MSNBC'S report? Was it the NE report? If this was so factual, why wasn't it reported in the NEWYORK TIMES, WASHINGTON POST, LA TIMES, CHICAGO TIMES. Just maybe they require substanciated sources. But don't let a little thing like facts get in your way.

look like i said it was good enough of a source for Edwards, so deal with it ! i don't care about Palin's life i am not voting for her. you all claim she is just a joe six pack and pure as the driven snow. she is far from it ! are you now going to say msnbc is a poor source too ? or are you just going to over look that like everything else ?

Also, just Google (Palins extramarital baby affair). All based on the scandel rag NE. Do you trust the source?

Palin accused of steamy extramarital affair.Yep, it was from the great National Inquirer.
This was in an article by Annie Davis, Washington correspondet in St Paul, Minnestoa, 04/09/08 located in the Hawksbury Gazette.
Interesting read. Can't wait to read Obama2008's take on it.

bunnies lay eggs ? republicans read ?

Thank you for the link. That wasn't so hard was it? It saves me the trouble of an easter egg hunt and it raises my opinion of you as not just another rumor monger.

republicans are so lazy , here : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27134586/

Obama2008, you have a wealth of information about Gov. Palin. Source, please?

MadeinUSA:
You wrote "Next thing you'll want is to tell us men when and where WE'RE supposed to have children in our families!" The state already does regulate your "right" to procreate. It's called "no means no". You may procreate whenever you want to, provided your wife (or girlfriend/significant other)consents. Attempt to procreate without her consent and, if she is so inclined, its off to jail you go. Furthermore, if she later changes her mind, she may kill your child and pretty much all you will be able to do about it is howl at the moon, which just about sums up the choices the baby has as well.

"As governor, Palin at times links church, state Records show she used taxpayer money to promote religious causes."

Palin was baptized Roman Catholic as a newborn and baptized again in a Pentecostal Assemblies of God church when she was a teenager. She has worshipped at a nondenominational Bible church since 2002, opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest and supports classroom discussions about creationism.

since she took state office in late 2006, the governor and her family have spent more than $13,000 in taxpayer funds to attend at least 10 religious events and meetings with Christian pastors, including Franklin Graham, the son of evangelical preacher Billy Graham, records show.

Is the Janesville Gazette really as short staffed as to publish such an op-ed piece without any actual references to the "actions" taken by Barack Obama, as Lyons has alleged? There is not a shred of truth to what has been published, as far as I can see. Lyons makes it sound like Obama sued an abortion survivor!?

Keep your religious ideas and "laws" off of my wife's body. Next thing you'll want is to tell us men when and where WE'RE supposed to have children in our families! Think that's a dramatic exageration? Think again!

Typical lefties like Obama2008 wants to pawn off the work onto others and then take credit for it.

lakenneddy-I've attended church my whole life (and I'm old) and I've yet to run into the church you are talking about. Are they out there? Yes they are but they are the exception not the rule.

Looks like we have drifted away from the purpose of the article. This is suppose to be about Obama and his answers regarding abortion.

The NI got one right. How many have they gotten wrong?
So again, Obama2008, what is your source. I don't need a lacky what I and the rest of us need is fact. Prove or retrack! Is that so hard to do?

Oh, I see now. We should rely instead on a set of rules established by an institution created thousands of years ago intended to extort money and secure power by preying on fears and ignorance of man. Your right, bibledude, that makes much more sense.

Obama2008- We see design in the world, there must be a designer. We see order in creation there has to be a law giver. We see cause and effect, there has to be a 1st cause as Aristotle said. Life from nothing, order from chaos? I have faith but not that much to believe everything we see is a product of time plus random chance.

so it was a good source for Edwards but not for Palin. plus how is it any different from Fox news other then they have more facts. i don't read the magazine but they did find out about Edwards before anyone else and were able show up all the news outlets. you believe the bible, so who is the idiot here. the "chalk artist" can be found and identified, you can not do the same.

From what i can find the alleged Palin Affair was an article in the National Enquirer... That's a pretty reliable source isn't it??? ha

Obama2008:Whybesad makes more sense then you. My comment was ment as sarcasm. Have you met Clouds555? Beides, you brought it up, why can't you prove it?

Obama2008- Obama is sure God exists, why do you doubt His existence when you can see evidence for the Creator all around you? I'm not talking about religion now. When I see a chalk artist's work displayed on the concrete but do not see the chalk artist I do not doubt he exists because I see his work.

bibledude, i don't care what religion obama is. just like i don't care what religion you are. god is not the issue and never is in my opinion. how can someone who doesn't exist matter ? you don't answer questions at all and until then i will not answer anymore of yours.

Obama2008-Doesn't your candidate claim to be a Christian? He may DeBama you.

no one said to get rid of the undesirables! keep spinning words pro-lifers. god doesn't exist, so he is welcome to leave America anytime as far as i am concerned. plus according to the believers i thought Jesus (the magician) died for our sins ? in that case we have been given a free ticket to sin. just say your sorry and everything is forgiven. plus i find the believers to be the biggest sinners of all. you only have to look as far as the current white house to know that.

usaret, have you met whybesad ? you can do your own research, i'm not your lacky. try reading !

If a woman doesn't want a retarded child then they should have the right to abort the pregnency no matter what. It's her body and her CHOICE!!!

And stewy, those who request forth trimester abortions should be granted those also, just to make it clear.. Are the retarded children taking up too much of your resources, or your love.. Let's just kill all the undesirables...

Woman who want or need an abortion should have the right to do so. If they have a child that is retarded or has other birth difects who is going to take care of that kid? The mother didn't want the kid in the first place and then the kid will be abused and who really wins? Keep abortion legal. Obama '08

OMG! Obama2008, what a revelation. I never knew about the Palin affair you mentioned. Where did you get your info from? What other facts do you have that we don't know about? Come on, spill out all the dirt now. Can't wait. What do you have on ACORN???? We need more people like you to provide us with such truthful and factual information. Be sure you provide information as to where we can read all about it. Have you met Clouds555?

Wow you are lost

Palin had an affair with a car wash owner around the same time she became pregnant. she is so full of lies and is a typical republican. i remember when Clinton had an affair and republicans would not shut up about it until, Larry Flint offered 1 million for republicans affairs and there were many many of them. once again your character judgment is way off base.

(Headinthe)clouds555 - You state, "she is classic joe six pack, can't close her legs." Can't close her legs!? Are you serious? This is HER HUSBAND in case you didn't know. This would be language you would use for a women who sleeps around not for one who has sex with her own husband. If they chose to have a child in their 40's last I knew that was not unethical. Then you call the infant a retard. I would think that anyone on either side of this issue could see that you have no class.

It is sad that our country has come to even need this discussion. We have moved so far away from morality to immorality. The legalization of SIN in our country will be it's demise. If we keep asking God to leave our country at some point he will and we will be left to fend for ourselves. It is clear that Obama wants to lead our people toward this path of destruction openly. When you go to vote in November, are you voting for a candidate, or vote against God?

hey petcat if Roe vs wade were ever overturned (which is very unlikely), abortion would not automatically become illegal. Many states have trigger laws that will kick in and still allow you to "take care of it". Do a little resarch so you know what your talking about.

Oh yeah,give up for adoption? Could you? Try living with either one of those choices every day and see how YOU feel!!!! Can you live with it??

I dont normally let ppl into my life but,YOU ppl are so fast to hate someone who had an abortion.I was 17,no job,no husband.....was an accident.Should I have giving birth to a small human just to make that human suffer my child-like issues,same as my own?

Ethics report is just out on Palin --- she screwed up.

Very interesting comments.
I am wondering as abortion is legal will it cease to be ---- all that use that form of contraception erase their heirs?

Sorry about the repeat. I don't know what happened there...

Redder, did you recently watch Platoon? Because clouds is not Private Pyle, and you are not the drill sergant.

Redder, did you recently watch Platoon? Because clouds is not Private Pyle, and you are not the drill sergant.

I am sorry I did not get on here sooner and won't make that mistake again. Clouds555, you are an idiot. How dare you say Palin had no right to give birth to her child and then call that baby a retard. What the hell is wrong with you. Did your mommy not give you any love as a child. I think not. Yes was she a little old to have a baby, maybe but that was her choice not yours jerk. Maybe the baby was an ooopsy. I have a 2 year old whom we love and adore as do her 5 brothers and sisters, she was an oopsy and guess what, she brings more joy into our lives than anything. You argue the right to choose well that goes for having a baby too you moron. I really do not believe in abortion, thats me, you baby killer, also have the right to kill, thats what the law allows, and really I dont think it will ever change. I have heard this for my 42 years of life, and nothing has changed. I only wish that biggots like you would shut up, its to bad your mother did not exersise her right to choose.

Why does Obama always have a look on his face like someone has peed in his cheerios?

republicans could not survive another term in office. they have put us so far in the hole only a democrat could get us out of it ! you know just like Clinton did when the first Bush left office. when will republicans stop voting for god and start voting for AMERICA ?

for real obama wants to kill babys and everyone that votes for him is an evil ninja warrior from the 5th dimension. i am lothar of the hill people. everyone that thinks electing obama will "cure all the problems" we have in the economy are pretty dumb. mccain is not much better. i am lothar of the hill people.

I like Obama's presence and speaking ability. However, he has some rough patches I'm having a hard time getting over. He snorted cocaine(which is a far cry from weed), was friends with and attended a church with Wright, who is a racist and anti American, and launched his campaign from the home of a former domestic terrorist William Ayers who also happens to be his friend. In addition, his stance on abortion while in Chicago is a bit sketchy. I just can't justify those things. Now I'm not being an apologist for the Republicans or pretending like politicians don't all have issues. However, I don't want to go from a radical right winger in Bush to a radical left winger in Obama. What we need is a moderate. Now McCain may not fit the mold to perfection, but at least he has a history of working with both parties and breaking party lines. The problems our country is facing require both parties work together and a balanced government. I fear if we have liberals in both the legislative and executive branches, that we'll shift too far the other direction. If you look at recent successful presidents like Reagan and Clinton, they both had something in common, which was balanced government. Reagan had a Democratic run congress and Clinton had a Republican run congress. The Republicans will lose more seats this election, so the Democrats will have a stronghold on congress. As a result, I think the President should either be Independent (which we don't have) or Republican. Just my observation. Personally I've grown very cynical of our entire system and politicians in both parties in general, but it is what it is.

I agree Rich

I am middle of the road and therefore not acceptible to either side of the debate. In that light, I see Obama very much on one side of the debate. He never seems to have the courage to stand up to his supporters and seek the middle road. In the case of abortion he has a record virtually supporting "the sanctity of abortion" over any realistic approach.

I don’t normally respond in such forums as there are others who articulate what I believe better than I could but I thought I would take the opportunity to offer another perspective.

First, in the spirit of full disclosure I am Pro-Life. I’ve always been Pro-Life but I also believe it is a person’s right to choose as we all have free will. There are consequences for choices but there is also forgiveness.

For me the basic question is “How much do you value life?” The question of when life begins is obviously up for debate. For me the best answer to the question is that if life doesn’t begin at conception then why do people use condoms?

Whether it is a married couple who do not want to have a child right now, a couple of teenagers who gave in to the heat of passion, or a woman who was raped there is now a life. What if child will be born disabled? It now becomes a question of convenience. A child, wanted or unwanted, is a major change or disruption to our current lives. I believe a choice to have an abortion is a choice of convenience. By their actions those who support abortion, for whatever purpose, deem the convenience of our current and future lives more important than protecting a life with no voice, “My life if more important than anyone else no matter how the life began or what kind of life they will live.” Is this what we as a society truly believe? Probably not but we are letting some determine that for us.

OK, let’s take it a step further. If we hold this young life with such disregard how about those who are living? We as a society have already allowed a young life to be declared inconvenient, how about someone at the end of their life? Is the next step for someone to decide that a parent incapable of taking care of themselves due to age or illness is now inconvenient? Are we prepared to determine their life inconvenient and take action? Are we prepared to allow that State to make that choice? We have started down a very slippery slope.

All life matters no matter how inconvenient.

petcat, you describe a very real problem. at the same time i find your humor to be very funny and much like my own. this topic is not funny but you have made it a little more palatable, thanks !

billnewbie- I appreciate your answer and I do agree for the most part. However, if abortion were made illegal women would be doing things on there own to end pregnacies. They would need to be prosecuted. These things could range from the morning after pill to a garage out in the country. But there are many things in between that could either intentionally or unintentionally harm the fetus during pregnancy. Some of those things may be judged by some as being malicious while others may feel it isn't. I guess my point is with abortion being legal this is a non-issue with the exception of those late term obvious cases of neglect. If abortion is made illegal this opens the door to interpretation of what is malcious and what it not during all stages of pregnancy.

Curlrock:
I answered your question. Here it is verbatim.
“Do the police attempt to track down anyone who may be thinking of buying an illegal drug, an illegal weapon, stolen property or the like? Only when they have probable cause, such as when a co-conspirator calls the police or an informant tells them. Our laws do not allow the police to surveil people they only suspect may be considering an illegal act without probable cause. Pregnancy is not probable cause just as drug addiction is not probable cause. Even convicted felons who have been released cannot be surveilled without other probable cause as a criminal record itself is not probable cause. Sure, the police may question a woman who lost her baby under suspicious circumstances (it stretches credulity to assume falling on ice, for instance, is an attempted abortion, after all many people fall on the ice), but medical records and personal data such as blood tests are untouchable without a court order. Consider how difficult it is to prosecute criminals as things stand today. I think your concerns are unrealistic and unnecessary.”

buckyfan- What if the women does something on her own to cause the abortion? Who decides if what she did was voluntary or malicious? I alluded that yesterday but never got an answer as to how and when she would be prosecuted.

whoanellie: How is my comment "selfish", I merely asked you to actually take the risk of exploring something other than your own opinion. I think it's pretty selfish of you to not even consider any other opinions/evidence other than your own. I also think it's presumptuous of you to think that the bloggers here would steal your personal information. I, personally, can promise you that yours isn't an identity I'd be interested in.

Petcat: One would think it's not the mothers who would be penalized, but the abortion doctors.
---
And not all pro-life advocates are in favor of the death penalty.

I can accept late term abortions. It's just that I (in my opinion) think that it is only justifiable in certain circumstances, which I explained in my earlier post. I feel, personally, that unless needed to protect the health of the mother, or because of a serious health problem with the baby, third trimester abortions aren't necessary. I'm not sure how many late term abortions there are, but I'd bet that the vast majority of them are carried out because of health complications.

Of course, petcat, if the Republicans and Christian take over and then catch rapists like you (hypothetically), death row and the gallows may await you. Will you still love them then, or will you wish the democrats had taken over so that rapist like you (hypothetically) will be treated and released back into society with a government stipend and free health insurance? You can’t lose!

Lakennedy:
You asked “why is abortion legal?” I’d like to take a crack at that question if you don’t mind.
It’s a matter of philosophy. Abortion supporters invariably express the opinion that the life in the womb is not human life. That it is just tissue and as such it can be treated as any other tissue in the body. They say that it bears little resemblance to a human. I’ve even heard it said that a human embryo is indistinguishable from a chicken embryo. Someone who posted here even stated that it is just a leach on its mother’s body. As justification for that belief, Abortion supporters claim that if the baby can’t survive on its own (viability) then it’s not human and therefore abortion is not murder.
There are many problems with that philosophy. For one, the viability argument is relative. The age of viability has dropped over the years due to medical advances. Babies that were considered unviable 30 years ago survive today. Those babies now grow to be normal human beings. Were those babies aborted 30 years ago that were unviable then just as human as the surviving babies of today? What has changed? Only our conception of viability. In the future (or maybe even today) babies may be able to survive outside the womb from conception. Will this change our assessment of the humanity of the conceived? If not, why not. The argument of the acceptability of abortion has always hung on the assessment of when life begins for almost every abortion supporter. My philosophy has been that life begins at conception. As medical science push viability back farther and farther, it brings the starting point of human life closer and closer to my position and farther from the original philosophy that made abortion legal in the first place.
Of course, as the viability rationale becomes less supportable, some new rationale will arise to replace it. After all, rare is the mother who can kill her child without some good reason. That is why even you cannot embrace late term abortions, isn’t it?

Execution is legal murder but, you don't care about that. i guess criminals (some innocent) are not as cute as a fetus.

Someone wondered what would be done with the millions of babies that would live if abortion were illegal? So, by implication, we need abortion for population control. That sounds like Hitler's final solution to me. So we say to the aborted "We find your lives to be too inconvenient and too expensive, therefore your lives are hereby forfeit for the good of the state and its narcissistic citizens who have no resources that they are willing to divert from their pursuit of self-fulfillment."
When you find ways to reduce consequences, you increase risk taking. Promiscuous activity has always had risks associated with it. In times past, such activity was considered unacceptable in open society. Those who indulged in such activity did so in private. STD’s were either not treatable or the treatment was ineffectual for many. Illegitimate pregnancy was shameful and its occurrence was uncommon. Times have changed. The stigma of promiscuity has all but been removed. Illegitimate pregnancy is socially acceptable and abundant. Birth control is readily available without cost but frequently unused, as if there were some other alternative (abortion), just in case.
What would we do with all the millions of babies should abortion become Illegal? Perhaps, without the added safety net of abortion being available, the sexual risk takers would be less inclined to take so many risks and avail themselves of other risk mitigators such as birth control and abstinence.
Is it really so much of an imposition to ask people to take more care to prevent procreation so that their babies need not be killed? If abortion were not available I suspect that many would, perhaps most would. In any case babies would not have to die.

I'll state it again, People in this country do not Value LIFE!!! That is how lakennedy can say such a selfish comment! We need to stop being so selfish and Growup! Yes i'm willing to adopt no matter what,but I will not put out my info here for someone to steal it.I beleive in adoption and wish more people would consider it.

Oh, and whoannellie: Just wondering, why is abortion legal? I mean, how can a country allow women to choose to have an abortion if it is nothing more than "legal murder"?

whoanellie: Perhaps you should review military history, more specifically statistics of civillians murdered during a time of war. Ever read "One Night In Thanh Phong"? I suggest you read that depiction of Robert Kerrey, former Governor of Nebraska. Let me know how you feel about that. My point is that part of the cost of being free is indeed "legal murder". You can call it anything you want, but that's what it is.

billnewbie: you've always had the right to state your opinion. I think it's awesome that you're family was both fortunate enough to be prepared to adopt children, and that you would be selfless enough to do so. I really mean that. I hope that you realize that not all people should adopt, and that not all people are qualified to adopt. Your story is indeed unique. I think that it is also amazing, and I'd like to wish you and yours good luck in the future. I'd also like to say that "your stock just went up in my book" lol. Keeping on topic, to answer your question: Again, you've always been able to express your opinion. I hope that you realize that, although others may not have adopted for various reasons, their opinions don't carry any less weight than yours. Do you agree?

Well I will state the obvious, The woman made a choice when she slept with the guy! Very rarely does a pregnancy occur from a rape. Let's be grownups when we make grownup decisions such as having sex with someone!!Either don't sleep around or give some loving family a baby that would not be an inconvenience to them!!Take responsiblity for your own actions-- oh that's right some people don't beleive in that! Let's just murder the baby,it's the only act of murder that is legal!!!

sportthewar:
Already have, 2 in fact, twins, cocaine affected. Best decision I ever made. You would do well to consider likewise.
Now do I have a right to state my opinion in your eyes?

Sportthewar: What did they do with the unwanted children before abortion was legal? Frankly, if abortions were illegal, I think we'd probably see a lot fewer accidental pregnancies. And, many of the other "inconvenience" children would actually be kept by their mothers (like my friends who didn't want a baby at that point in their lives but were perfectly capable of caring for one).
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There are many, many couples who would love to adopt children but can't due to cost and unavailability. And, yes, I would be thrilled to adopt, have researched the possibilities and am seriously considering an older child in the foster care system. I'm not sure why I have to reveal my name and address to you to do such a thing.

This article is not about a woman's right to choose this is about Obama voting for a law that would allow Doctors to ignore the basic needs of a child. Argue and say what you want but once the Embryo, Zygote or whatever term you want to use is out of the womb then it becomes a human being and to lay it off to the side and do nothing? Well then I guess it is time for us as humans to let the next dominant species have a go at this planet because we don't deserve to be here.

I beg you please give me hope that we are better than this.

I never thought I'd write this, whybesad, but I do agree with your view. There is an exception to this, though. If in the third trimester, the woman finds out that she could die if the pregnancy isn't terminated. Or, if she finds out that her child will have very serious health issues, in these circumstnaces, I support it. I do agree that a woman should (and does) know that she is going to choose abortion before the third trimester, unless it is a health related (either her or the baby) issue.

It's the late term abortions that Obama supports that I have a problem with. If you choose to have an abortion after you consider all the other options. You should know if your going to abort the p regency well before the third trimester. That is just plan brutal what the due to get that fetus out of the woman's body.

Sport, lots of people who talk the talk, not to many who truley walk it!

Wow. Okay, I have a question. To the people-of-faith-you-killed-a-future-Lincoln(s): if the government bans abortion, what do you plan to do about a million unwanted children each year?
Wait, I already have any easy solution that doesn't require anyone else except the pro-lifers.
Are you willing to adopt a child, regardless of the circumstances of it's conception, and known physical/mental defects? Anyone can have an opinion, but can you stand behind it? Lovestocrap, you willing to adopt one child, without conditions? If so, state your real name and address. Truth1, how about you? Nurse? Bill? Bible? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's a million unwanted children A YEAR, so you may have to agree to adopt more than one.
If any of you post anything other than "I agree and here's my real name and address...", then really all you're doing is pretending to have a belief.
The things I believe in I would die for, fight for, sacrifice everything for.
Are you willing to adopt a child for your beliefs?

Lovetoscrap

I can't believe you are carrying on this argument. The republicans being in the minority by 1 is almost meaningless, when they have the President to veto anything they aren't in agreement with.

The troubles in the financial markets had more to do with a policy by the republican administration, of little to no regulation on the banks and free markets. It had nothing to do with congressional action or lack of it. The end result was greed and out right fraud flourished, leading, eventually, to the collapse of the financial markets and a huge bill to the taxpayers.

The war in Iraq was the result of an intentional miss leading by the Bush administration. Bush and Cheney acted as quasi con-men to intentionally take advantage of a country, stunned by the events of 911 and led them off in the wrong direction to Iraq.

Invading Iraq was a high priority on Bush's agenda long before 911. 911 was the catalyst that allowed him to get his wish. Much exaggeration and outright fabrication occurred during this period. Most of it won't be public until after President Bush leaves office.

To summarize, the last 8 years, yes all 8 of them have been an accident about to happen and last week it happened.

The republicans were in the minority for the last year and half as the bottom fell out. It is you who should dream on.

I apologize fot the post that was too graphic and removed by site staff. I was just trying to share my knowledge that I knew about abortion techniques. An individual who had questioned what I posted needed clarification.

Lovetoscrap:

So it was the democratic congress to blame for it all......that's a bit like blaming the undertaker for the death.

Dream on my friend.........

biggirl- Rumor has it I was once a fetus. I was domiciled in my mothers womb while I formed but I was never a part of her body nor were you. Thank God your mother didn't feel that way about you.

Curlrock- I hear how you are feeling. Your daughter would be looking to you for guidance. I am sure you and your daughter are very close.
Some people find an understanding about the aftereffects of an abortion, by applying a scientific approach. To make a real informed decision, a person should really conduct thorough research. All life changing decisions and major milestones should be evaluated before an individual determines their life path.

Scary how many people want the government controlling women's bodies. Sorry folks: It's my body. You can do whatever you want with yours.

Devilsadvocate so the Republicans ran this country in the ground during the last eight years? This sums it up well! Facts are facts!!

This has to make you think a little bit, if not then just keep your blinders on!

George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.

A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, and vacations overseas, living large!

But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress & yep--we got 'CHANGE' all right.

In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline fluctuates between 3-4 dollars a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION DOLLARS & prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) As I write, THE DOW is probing another low ... about 9000. $2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!

Buckyfan:
To amplify your point, if I may, not only does government claim the authority to regulate what choices we make with our own bodies, it also claims authority over what choices we can make with someone else's body, particularly without their consent. Pregnant women who choose to have abortions aren't just making choices for control of their own bodies but are also making a choice, life or death, for their child. Government never allows us to make a choice for our own benefit that results in someone else's death unless our own lives are also in peril under any other circumstances.

Clouds: The point I was trying to make (and something I respectfully think you understood but still felt the need to challenge...semantics, semantics, semantics) is that there are laws made every day about what I can and can't do with my body.
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I cannot go outside right now and legally sell my body for money. I cannot possess illegal drugs. And like you said, I cannot parachute without being properly trained (or without the proper equipment). And it is illegal for me to sell my organs, dead or alive (google it if you don't believe me). So, my point still stands, we don't always get a "choice" with our bodies.

As a point of fact, anyone who says, "It is wrong to make judgements" has just made one.

Devilsadvocate-It's Bibledude. A Bibledue is actually a hairdo from the Biblebelt.

Spunkmeyer- Wow, those magic words were spoken and you were transformed from your mother into you! Sounds like a good Jerry Springer episode, it could be called "I Used To Be My Own Mother."

I think Curlrock makes an excellent point. Just because you are pro-choice does not mean you would have an abortion, nor does it mean you think it's morally right. Being pro-choice simply means you believe the decision should be left to the woman.

Bibledue

You make my point exactly...all the abortion talk appeals to the emotional/religious side of people, not the common sense side. The Republicans hope, by appealing to that side of folks, they will be voted back in, in spite of the fact they ran the country into the ground for the last 8 years.

ncpanfan - My apologies. What I should have said is MOST pro-lifers.

Thank