Well, if they have the same notion as you do, they'll probably keep their money local. That's the idea, right? You posted it earlier. What I am saying, is that the success of this is contingent on drawing outsiders to Janesville. I think we can both agree on that. I'm trying to point out that it is much more likely for someone who is wanting to travel to a Children's Museum to go to Madison's, which isn't that far from Janeville, because they can also engage in a lot of other family fun. Henry Vilas Zoo, Memorial Union, etc. In Janesville, we could offer them a view of the GM graveyard, a nice Wal-Mart, and a cold beer at Legends. If I were an outsider, I would definitely go to Madison. I think the majority of people would agree.

lakennedy - My point exactly. We NEED SOMETHING to inspire non locals to come to this city to spend money. It is obvious from people posting here that LOCALS would rather spend their money in Madison and Rockford. You ask why would anyone come here? I ask WHY NOT?

Why not a private childrens museum funded entirely by private money? What a revolutionary concept?

Lease the donations from individuals willing to provide artifacts and charge an entry fee that "subisizes" the operational costs of running the museum.

Wait just one minute.....what I am proposing sounds like a private business...and if a private business cannot recoup its costs of doing business...they fail. Thats not fair!

I highly doubt the city is legally bound to provide $5mm of tax payer money to build a childs museum-should private investors/donors raise $3mm. Amy Loasching has so much said that she does not trust the citizens to make the right decision (if it goes to referendum). I would be curious to know if Ms Loasching is a member of the Madisons children museum or Milwaukee children museum or chicago children museum. She believes that Janesville needs this-but is Loasching a member of any similar museum? If she is not willing to support a museum personally why does she believe the city of Janesville needs one?

Okay, so people supporting the children's museum speak of it as an "economic development tool." Saying that "families from Southern WI will come to Janesville to visit and spend money in our stores and restaurants."
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First off, I'm wondering where these people would be coming from? I don't suppose that people from Madison would come, as they have their own (extremely nice) museum. And anyone living south of Janesville, might as well go to the (enormous) museum in Rockford. When you consider the fact that Madison and Rockford are much bigger cities, it's hard to imagine that Janesville would be able to come up with anything that could compete.
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It's also hard for me to believe that visitors would be inspired to "shop and eat" here. Not to be a jerk, but what do we have to offer that's unique? I don't suppose that the WalMart, Shopko, Target and/or Kohl's stores in Janesville are different from the ones located in other cities. The restaurants here are also mostly of the "chain" variety, with none of them being particularly geared towards families with small children. Even the Janesville Chuck E. Cheese pales in comparison to those in other, larger cities.
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If Janesville has $5 million available, I think the City Council should come up with a better way to spend it. For instance, how about putting the money towards incentive packages to attract business and industry to the city? Just a thought.

With GM closing I would not add anything at all to the city to support. Wait and see if any other industry comes into town to pick up the slack of all the unemployed people..

I for one do not think we need a Children's Museum. We can't even keep our businesses running, how in the world do they think we can do this??? I would rather go to madison or rockford and not pay for this ridiculous idea! No one is going to come to Janesburg to see this. I pay enough taxes already, I CAN"T afford more! This is a stupid wasteful thing just like the bike tunnel!!! I hope we get to vote.

justsome1here:
I agree. The idea behind the success of this Children's Museum is that people from out of town drive to Janesville and use it. This creates a situation where we are depending on non local money. My post asked why you would spend your non local money in Janesville when you could drive to Madison and use it there, where there is much more to offer.

There is a difference between "investing" and subsidizing.

lakennedy - You posted "Just wondering. Why would you drive to Janesville and visit a Children's Museum when you could go to Madison and visit theirs? Madison also has a zoo, etc. and is much more appealing." Could it be that the taxpayers invest in their city to make it more appealing?
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Madison has been advertising "Buy local. The money you spend in Madison, stays in Madison."
When you drive to Madison and visit these attractions I am sure that you spend money, if not at these places you visit then someplace else. When you do these things you are investing in that cities future, not Janesville's.

justsome1here. I don't think anyone here wants to stop investing in Janesville. It is our home as much as it is yours. I think that we feel that now is not the time to be spending money like this. Invest in something worthwhile, something that is an actual need vs a want. Financially, our city has been hit pretty hard. I think that in response to this we should be evaluating our financial position, not building a childrens museum.

There is enough waste in this town. No to funding! Private fundraising will be tough as well. Janesville needs to focus on real issues before it is too late.

If I remember correctly JPAC got a million dollar "gift" from the taxpayers not to long ago. Fiscial responsibility doesn't just rear its head in bad times. A childerns museum is a great idea as is the bike tunnel. If taxpayers do not want to invest in this city you might as well put a sign at the city limits that says "Quarantine ahead. You are approaching a dying city."

I agree Mrs. Joe. While there are benefits to a children's museum do we have the money while we are cutting schools and the Talman House. I would put this second behind the bike tunnel as the biggest miss use of funds. I went to the bike tunnel site after talking to a friend last Friday. I'm outraged that they would build a tunnel there when they could put up freeway style guard rails to make people go to the stop light 50 feet away. If people jump the guard rails and get hit by a car its their own fault. Stop wasting MY MONEY!!

If we're going to stuff money into something for children, why can't we stuff money into something worthwhile...their education. Instead of budget cuts to the schools and getting rid of art teachers, I'd rather support the schools than a children's museum I'd take my kids to once a year!

This is typical of Janesville. Lets spend more money! Do they not realize that GM and other companies are going to shut down and people have lost jobs and foreclosing on their homes. Do they not care! My God, we need to cut costs, not find something unessesary to spend more money on!

We should really get all of the facts before we condemn this idea. I am NOT for raising taxes, UNLESS it is for a idea that will generate (guaranteed) revenue for Janesville. For example, if we were to invest in a semi-pro ball park (Snappers etc.), and we knew that it would generate visitors who would use our restaurants, hotels etc., then I am for it. I am not sure a children's museum will draw a huge money spending crowd, but I don't know that for sure. In tough economic times, people are inclined to channel all of their energy in SAVING money, when we should be thinking outside the box on how we can generate revenue for Janesville. You have to spend money to make money. I hope the council is looking at win/win projects for Janesville, and I don't know if this project is it.

Are we able to responsibly compare JPAC with the proposed children's museum? Can we safely assume that the children's museum's admission prices would be far less than most of the event prices at JPAC?

Ok, this might be a stupid question, but what exactly is the Children's Museum? What is it going to feature? What "educational" purpose will it serve to the area schools and community? Who proposed this project in the first place?
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Can the Gazette run a background story on this project? Get ALL the facts: history, purpose, financial, etc.
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Is this going to be something like the Twirling Museum out on Wright Road (how many people have heard of that?)?

Which is lovely.
May I just say that JPAC is not a Children's Museum?

lakekennedy...may I also point out...JPAC is self-sustaining and has never received any operational or maintenance funding from the city.

Just wondering. Why would you drive to Janesville and visit a Children's Museum when you could go to Madison and visit theirs? Madison also has a zoo, etc. and is much more appealing. What are the families supposed to do after visiting this museum? Go see the GM graveyard? Check out our Wal-Mart? Maybe stop in at Quotes or Legends and have a nice cold one?
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Just wondering.

I do believe that the proposed Children's Museum is quite possibly the most irresponsible thing our council has supported to date. A close second is the ridiculous bike tunnel. I would like everyone to know that this was brought to the table AFTER our fair city was informed of GM's closing date. This was decided on almost in response to it. It's not like they made this decision and then found out our city was facing tough economic times, they decided on it afterwards. The outside money they're talking about is going to be raised. I remember an article mentioning Alliant Energy and M&I Bank as possible funding sources.
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In an article earlier this year the Gazette reported that: "Revenue would be $409,000 a year with an operations shortfall of $238,000. That would be covered with up to $125,000 in city money, with the remainder coming from fund-raising and the endowment."
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This article also held the following quotes:

“We are the ones who know what our vision is,” she said. “We’ve been elected by the residents to … create a vision and see it through. … But I think we put it to a referendum, and it dies."

“I do see this as a need,” Loasching said.
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“We can’t predict floods, storms, economic downturns … The one thing that I think we have to do is position ourselves in the best possible light.”
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I agree, Russ, but the thing is that you didn't have to predict anything here. YOU WERE TOLD the date of the closing of GM, and subsequently I would guess could figure out that Leer, etc. would be closing soon after, and you still voted for this.
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Russ also likes to compare this to JPAC. I'd like to remind him that the city was in a much better financial position when that was pushed through. You cannot compare the two.
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I e-mailed our council members regarding this issue long ago. I urged them to go ahead and add the issue onto the ballot in November. The response I was given was that it is their job to make these decisions for our city. This is why they were elected. If they put this to a referendum, then they'd have to put everything else to one. Well, I know that I for one would have appreciated it if Loasching would have informed me of her "vision" for our city before I voted for her. I can guarantee you that if support for this nonsense continues, I won't be doing so again.

I do have children of the age to visit a children's museum, but I still do not support this idea. I do not think Janesville can support it, especially with the massive job losses coming next month. I agree with spicymarge that this is the current fad for downtowns and it will not be something that draws crowds after the new wears off.

I don't belive that this is the time to be thinking of a children's museum. Also I don't have chidren and i don't want my money spent on this when at this time there are more important thing to be worry about and spend money on. Why don't we put it up to a referendum and see what everyone has to say about it or if they what it.

I've witnessed multiple efforts to save multiple downtowns since the mid-70s including: Downtown malls, riverwalks, downtown business associations, TIFs, performing arts centers, elderly/low rent housing, and now children's museums. The trouble is all dying downtowns try the same things during the same time periods resulting in failure for all of them. I don't see this as having any better chance of success.

Don't forget there's also a children's museum in Madison. What would make the Janesville museum more attractive than the ones in Madison and Rockford? Anyone who could spare some insight, please do.

Is it the intent of the museum to be not-for-profit? If so, has the fundraising committee set the group up as a 501(c)3? Although I'm not in favor of the museum (so it can crumble without basic needs getting covered in future years, like the Tallman house is now), I do think fundraising efforts from the "have's" would be more fruitful if tax deductible. And, looking forward to a potential failure of the City's committment, perhaps funds raised at that point could be transferred to the SW Community Foundation Children's Museum fund.

I would LOVE to have children's museum close to us. BUT, in this economy I think it would be wise to put this off until we see better conditions. With so many out of work right now, there are so many better ways to use this money. Right now we should be concerned about children having food to eat, a place to live and warm clothes. A museum would be nice, but we have higher priorities at this time!

Put it on a referendum!
I'll be happy to vote NO. This is a WANT not a need and the economy the way it is the council better wake up and not waste money and then make already strapped property owners pay the bill.

This is a horrible idea simply because it won't make enough money to sustain itself. When this issue first came up, estimates (if I recall) were that this would be $220,000 dollars in the hole each year. What's more, the numbers used to get the $220,000 deficit includes overly optimistic attendance numbers. In reality this could go much further in the hole each year. Right now the city needs to concentrate on job growth. Since the children's museum will only employ about seven people, I don't think it qualifies. If the city can show a budget surplus big enough to pay for this museum, then that's a different story. In addition, if the city can show a budget surplus big enough to cover even the highest loss estimates, then it's a good idea. Otherwise it's time to get away from these pie in the sky proposals.

Is $125,000 annually from the city taxpayer money? Would that money be used to maintain the building and provide a salary for a director? And is that enough?

Clark Kent--is it true that once the museum is up and operating, that it would be operating at a loss? I heard that when the museum idea was first brought to the public. I'm curious about where the money would come from to fund a director's position, and other staff. I am supportive of downtown development, but I am skeptical of the idea that a one time $3million fundraising campaign is a sign that this museum could be sustained. Any insight you have would be most appreciated.

It is important that we all get the facts on this and educate ourselves before making a snap judgement. With these tough times, it's too easy to just yell "NO" to this without giving it the consideration it deserves. No reward of any value comes without risk.
I was for this in August and I continue to support it today. If this committee can raise $3 million on their own to get it started then they deserve the support of the Council and the citizens of Janesville. This museum will be a wonderful place for children to explore and learn. It also has potential to be a valuable economic development tool. Families from all over Southern WI will come to Janesville for the day to visit and spend money in our stores and restaurants. Individuals and businesses looking to relocate to Janesville will have one more positive reason to consider making Janesville their home. I do hope that this project is successful and I wish the best of luck to the museum committee.

What I want to know is, if the private group does raise $3 million, and then the future council votes to NOT match that with $5 million plus operating expenses, then what happens to the $3 million? Do they have to refund it to their doners? Do they use it to build a smaller museum? Do they give it all away to children charities?

I think it's safe to say we wont need to worry about funding a children's museum in the near future

I'm all for innovation and development of the downtown, but I just don't see the constituency or audience for a children's museum here. I could be wrong, but I'd much rather see a small facility started privately and prove itself before the city takes it on as a subsidy.

The City Council should rescind the offer indefinitely since our economic future is in flux.

Isn't the real point here that the economic situation has changed since the original promise was made? It's time for all of us to make sacrifices -- and that includes the budget for law enforcement. We need to begin thinking about how to save money in all areas.

There is no way Janesville can support a children's museum. The subsidy of $125,000 per year is just the beginning.

Do we really need a Childrens museum? I remember being in school, it was fun going out of town to Rockford to the Discovery Museum. I don't think Janesville is traveled to enough to get a Childrens museum. It's not like Rockford is so far away. Thats just my opinion