coast:
Yeah; its a falling knife, if you pull up the chart. The thing has lost almost 70% of it's value in one years time! It's near $10 a share after todays market crash. A level that has never been seen in over 30 years of the company. It won't be long till it's complete junk status, and then you will hear bankruptcy, or buyout, rumors.

They have lost around $15 BILLION in market capitalization over the past 6 months.....OUCH! This thing is one sick puppy!

coast2coast,
I'm positive GM will never go bankrupt. A GM worker who just retired after 46 years down there told me that. He's 100% positive he'll drawn his pension along with everyone else whom has earned it. That's the way the GM corporation works. They're 100% loyal to their employees! ......Now excuse me while I go puke!

Has anyone noticed that GM stock is literally crashing? It's at around $11 now, and falling everyday. Is bankrupcy close?

Zoom
It's just the future, which happens to be here now. You call it what you like. The rules have changed and you haven't. No big deal if you're content with flipping burgers or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart. People will be competing for those jobs too due to the unemployment pool becoming larger. These days, it pays to be "wise" and not think we're so smart. Of course, you'd have to humble yourself first. Might be a tall order for someone as worldly as you though.......

Enough with your pyramid scheme rantings. Welcome to capitalism.

MOC0428~
I understand where you're coming from. I'm not saying don't buy anything. Just BUY LESS!
This culture we live in is an "instant gratification" society. "I want it now" mentality. Which means, even if we can't afford something, we buy it anyway! CREDIT CARDS etc. If people put their minds to it, they can get by with less. Pay cash if you need it or don't buy it! Here's the problem we face now. Jobs are gone and people not only owe for these credit cards, they can't purchase like they're accustomed to because they can't pay their credit card bills. So what happens? They become stressed, depressed and many who have been brought up without proper guidance will turn to crime to passify their so called "needs". Corporate America has given the American people the "vehicle" to fail and we've bitten on it hook and sinker. Many people have stopped taking responsibility for themselves because it's become acceptable to just blame someone else when things don't go their way. All this is happening on the Ameican citizens watch. We've become to reliant on Uncle Sam and less reliant on each other. It's going to take people banding together and willing to "change". We have to start caring about each other again and having each other's backs. Money & finances aren't the leading cause of stress in this country, PEOPLE ARE! We put ourselves in these positions and it's going to take "us" to start getting educated with the right info. and not the garbage media and start changing "us" first. We can do this. The consumer rebellion is a great start! Start putting those middle man profits back in our pockets that these companies have been advertising and shoving down mainstream America's throats for all these years and band together! Start dispersing the money that these billion dollar companies possess back into the consumers pockets. Less billionaires and more millionaires or hundred thousandaires! It's already happening. It's just going to take more people to understand it can be done and willing to humble themselves and jump in line!

Kleej: What products do you suppose we could buy? Nearly all electronics are made somewhere else. Even if you bought a GE appliance or Whirlpool appliance there are many parts on it that were sourced from overseas. Even the American made cars, how much of those parts are from overseas?

I do agree that we brought this upon ourselves. We let NAFTA pass and now Ross Perot doesn't sound like such and idiot. As India and China keep growing their costs to produce goods will also rise and we will truly have a global economy at some point. At that point it won't be in our best interest to outsource our jobs overseas but that will be awhile before we see that.

IMHO,part of the problem is that America seems to have an issue with doing some of these crap jobs that other countries don't mind because they know we want the goods. We seem to have the "I'm to good to do that, let someone else do it" attitude. It appears we are becoming more of a white collar society.

From what I hear, management at janesville is either being offered a job at other plants or told their jobs are going to be gone.

The big show by Dutcher might be to get in the media so he can get Sheridans job. Sheridan will run for Senator Judy Robsons job when she leaves. Tim Cullen seems like he wants some media attention also.

What's the difference if Toyota or any other foreign manufacturer comes in? The companies in this country are outsourcing everything anyway because it's cheaper to do. So in turn, they cut American jobs and have the gall to bring the foreign made products back into this country, and sell the stuff back to the workers that they replaced! When will America wake up? Corporate America has been taking a giant "dump" on the American working person for years and WE THE PEOPLE stand around and do nothing! We are our own worst enemies! There needs to be a consumer rebellion! (actually, there is one that most don't know about) People need to band together and not allow these companies and manufacturers to manipulate the American people. Consumer capital is king. If these companies aren't getting the working man's money, they're screwed! We need to stop feeding the BEAST!
How about this: We won't buy any of these manufacturers products unless they share a portion of the profits with us!!!! That's what I'm talking about!

I just passed the plant and seen a couple of workers with their heads down,going in to work,So I yelled good luck to be nice. But wait a minute what if toyota or honda came to town could the workers of UAW be able to build a toyota or a honda her I'm not being a pain but trying to be possitive for all you workers who will not have a job soon, If the group of people who are going to talk to GM could talk to other builders you might have a chance, So tell you'r UAW rep to talk to the group to look into that opption.

Wisconsin is not a state that forces workers to belong to a union. However, if a labor union is recognized at any given company, employees could be required to contribute that amount that goes toward collective bargaining, that ultimately results in that employees betterment as it pertains to their employee wages and benefits.

Sounds like you have intimate knowledge of said "stand up's" Ralph ! Hey, better to try and fail than not to try at all.

To clarify, unions are prohibited from collecting dues in right-to-works states, which makes them inefective in the traditional union sense.

Wisconsin isn't a "forced union" state, but other states, mostly in the south and west, have "right-to-work" laws, which prohibit unions. The transplants (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) are all non-union, so most think they won't come to a state that allows unions (Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-wo...

I bet they are lining up in their Sundays best hoping for a prom date that will drive right by there house. They will be stood up.

PS--Zoom: On another thread, "TCB" had said it would never happen because Wisconsin is a forced union state. I had never heard that before. Anyone know what that means?

Zoom: I really don't have an opinion on Toyota coming in. It would be nice. And, short of GM giving Janesville a new product, probably the most ideal outcome. Whether UAW allows it: your guess is as good as mine. But, when GM shuts the engines down for good, it really isn't up to them to dictate what anyone can do with the campus.
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I was on the UAW website before. It seems to me I found a listing of UAW member car makers here in the states and acceptable vehicles for each. Toyota may or may not be on that list: I can't seem to find it now on their site. So, in short, I'm staying maybe will still have a place "here" if Toyota does come in.
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Ideally, it would be nice for GM to stay in Janesville. However, if that is not in the cards, then bring in whatever business is willing to take on the complex task of cleaning up GM's current toxic site (meant literally and in no means disrespectful). If they build Toyotas, make cat food, or stamp custom made manhole covers: bring 'em in!
The real question is do I think Doyle will be active and aggressive enough in luring another massive employer to ANYWHERE in Wisconsin? Not if it has nothing to do with a waterpark or tourism.

Moco..Interesting post !I will agree that I get under your skin and you mind !lol...I got the numbers on lost jobs in Rock Co. out of saturdays paper under,County could pay dearly if GM leaves. It was broke down into sector -by-sector. As far as I believe if the local economy will pull thru..yes but it's going to take awhile.My guess would be 4to5 years after all is said and done.When GM went to one shift in 1981-82 things were bad for the locals then,with prices being what they are now I wonder and worry about how are people gonna do it.We really have no jobs here or coming anytime soon and if we are too believe the numbers of all that will be affected it's real scary to me .This isn't about just GM to me ,it's about that single parent that needs that income to stay in their home,feed their children maybe to be able buy that $3.00 happymeal that some of us just take for granted.Please don't even get me started on the health care,that scares me more than anything.As I have said before this is so much bigger and goes deeper than GM.Will be pull out of this??? Yes! but like I said at what cost to our futures ?

Zoom... I agree the American dream is alot harder now for many.I also agree that the workers were sold-out ! At the end of the day when it's all said and done our lives with GM are changed.People on here believe that we've had it too good for too long .Have we ?? Yes in someways..if we lived in a perfect world my wish would be that everyone would have that income..I do understand how lucky we were and how we raised our family on one income so I could stay home.Do I feel that people are attacking my husband ?? No ! I know the time that my husband gave up with our girls because he went to work everyday.He seen them on weekends only after they started school.I can say that in 27 years he missed no more than 30 days ,3 weeks was medical.So yes I do get upset when GM workers are all thought to be the same and lumped together as lazy,drunks,self intitled etc.One thing that I'm happy about is our lives with GM are on the downside,it's young families that I feel for now.No one knows for sure what tomorrow will bring,I still have hope that it will be good !

ihavealife: I really missed our discussions! There are many points that could be discussed here but in the end it is about the survival of Janesville. I will admit that this closing will have an impact on Janesville but I don't think it will be as much as some people think. If it were 7000 all at once that would be a different story. GM has been slowly pulling the plug here and because of that it won't impact Janesville as much as everyone thinks.

How many will pick up and move? I would imagine that if you were and 86er or before you will relocate to another plant but anyone after that will probably look for jobs locally in Madison, Beloit, Rockford etc.. Janesville has a population of 60,000 and the plant closing will probably impact 4000 people. That still leaves 56,000 people with sources of income other than GM or a supplier. I understand that some of these people don't work or are too young to work but the point is that there is alot of other money feeding the local economy.

I would love it if our state and local government had enough money to build a new state of the art building but I just don't see that happening. That would probably increase the amount of jobs in the area. The are a couple of obstacles to this. We have a governor that is "tourism" based and I don't think he can see what industry will do for the state. The second comes down to the wages that are being paid to these workers. The $28 and up is too much for unskilled labor, especially when GM's competitors are not paying that much. If it costs GM $4000 in labor to build a vehicle and it only costs Toyota or Honda $2500 they can sell their cars cheaper and/or make more profit. They are not operating in the red right now as is the case for American auto companies.

For the record my career is in no way tied to the auto industry, I would be to chicken to take such a risk. I just think the the pessimistic view of this closing is not going to help the city or county.

Sorry for the book, I know some people don't like long posts.

momof5,
What are your thoughts on Toyota coming to a Union town? Do you think the UAW will interfere?

ihavealife,
GM and the UAW killed your "American dream" wages with the last contract. The economy has just quickened the inevitable race to the bottom.

GM was once the largest North American automaker, and is now facing a very real possibility of Chapter 11 or a bailout. Those are facts, not "negativity". Meanwhile, Mr. Wagoner (& Co.) takes absolutely no responsibility for the poor performance of GM, gets a pay increase, and still has no time line for a turnaround. At least Bill Ford was smart enough to admit he didn't know what he was doing, and got out of the way.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/19/news/com...

Thanks momo! Along with the 2 weeks in July, they have also placed 10 other down weeks in the schedule too (all of Nov & Dec). This is not etched in stone, but is just another hit of bad news the people have had to take down here. Sure, you will hear a few drunks at the bar being giddy about this down time. But for the most, we would all rather have the security of constant work than all this down time.

Hey MOC0428--I was wondering where you've been!! I hear, and no I will not divulge my source, but will say it is a top elected official outside of Rock County, that "they" are lobbying to get Toyota in "here."
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So, you see, you may not have to move to Kentucky. But, I would guess Kentucky probably compares to the Elkhorn area. <tongue in cheek>
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With the news of GM being idled for an additional 2 weeks in July, I speculate the DAYS are numbered. And, that is very sad for Janesville, Rock County, and all of Wisconsin.
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Just because someone works, worked or has a family member employed ANYWHERE does not make them the resident expert on the said topic. Just keep that in mind, MOC0428, Zoom and Snarly.
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chad_vader: I have read numerous postings of yours. You really debunk the myth and stereoptype that GM workers are uneducated. Thank you for well written and well thought out posts.

Zoom.... Just for the record,when I first dated my husband I made more than he did at GM.I work out of my home,have bought 5 cars on my own credit ,have my own money,credit cards etc.So you see it has nothing to do with not having a GM income.I really don't get your interest in always finding the negative about GM .As I said we have been thru this before and we will get thru it again.Remember this is affecting young families that wanted the American dream and you and others think they can still have it on $10.00/hr jobs in 2008 !

I wonder what diamondback has to say about all this?

Zoom, I saw it as "Janesville is not ready or able to take this change" as referring to the present, which with all the supplier job losses along with the former Gilmans is a huge hit. Janesville will not be a Flint, it will pull through, but there will be hardships until more buisnesses come in to help fill the void. How bad it will get is anyones guess. I think the sooner GM closes that the worse it will be. Of course, the real demon is the sad state of our nations policies that are putting us all in a deeper well.

OK, ENOUGH! Your comments really tick me off! Who cares if it's GM or another company, The fact is these are jobs in the area that are lost and it's good to know that someone is fighting to keep them!! Keep bashing them all you want but someday you people might be in their shoes fighting for your job!! Hopefully that will never happen but it could.

sorry, 27 years.

And I have never said that people shouldn't try to keep GM here, only that our city should focus on what to do after GM closes.

chad, your second sentence is correct. I have no problem with hope, but my comments are mainly to ihavealife, who can't seem to accept the brutal facts of what is really going on in the industry. Her comment "Janesville is not ready or able to take this change" is to give up on Janesville, and frankly, self centered. I'm sure that losing your well paying job after 22 years is horrible, but I disagree with all the doom and gloom as it applies to Janesville as a city.

Zoom, are you saying that everyone should just give up in the face of such hardships? Not giving up all hope is NOT the same as not being able to see all the facts. Most can filter the GM/Union PR to take what is real, but at the same time not all you read, even at the likes of autonews.com (good site), can be taken as gospel either.

This isn't 1985. People will know more about GM than you if all you ever listen to are the GM and UAW PR machines. They have a vested interest in spinning the bad news, to keep their members happy and productive. If you really want to know what's going on in the automotive industry, I suggest, at a minimum, registering at autonews.com. Many of their articles don't require the premium subscription.

chad... I couldn't have said it better !! It has always amazed me on how people know more than the GM family knows themselves !! Yes we made a good living that we raised our family on.My husband went to work everyday and earned that pay check.When he started he made $2.60/hr(here comes the nasty opinions)and for anyone to say that auto workers have not earned their raises and benefits over the years is just crazy.No one handed him his job like so many people think is the case. People that have never worked at GM will never understand the bonds,friendships and sense of family that we have made for a lifetime.For people that can't/won't see what this is doing to Rock Co. is mind blowing.I wish you the best of luck in your ventures and all that is to come your way !!! By the way theres nothing wrong with a PLANT RAT ..I love mine:)

ihavealife - Isn't it boring when all the trolls on thses sites have nothing better to say than the same old unsubstantiated bullcrap and lies? snarly even called me a plant rat, which he must have gotten out of the Idiots Guide to Insulting GM Workers. Wages in the world are not always fair, but GM agreed to pay us what they do and that should be of no concern to anyone else. Maybe we need cheaper labor to build our vehicles, then we try and match China for title of Crap King. If moco's wife would educate him on how the free market works, then maybe he would be a little more civil.

Are you sure about them being private emails ???Trust me you don't want to be company of that person,be very careful who you believe !!

ihavealife: What is my name then? I did not live in Elkhorn and you don't know who I am! My wife does have a degree that warrants more money than she does make but people like you value GM wages more than what our educators make.

Her job will not be one of the 247 anyway. Where did you come up with that number? Besides I think I'm moving to Kentucky, you know, where TOYOTA is!

Ouch, my bad, I should be more sensitive. You have a way of briging the negative out in me. Actually I think you have that nack with most people. You should check what you say as your own daughters call you out in private emails!:) Have a nice day.

Ihavealife well i may have been a little to hard on you SO do us a favore and leave

moco-- not you again!! Maybe your wife will be one of the 247 in education that will loss her job !! After all you think she should be paid the big bucks ,but doesn't have the degree to warrant the $$$. As far as the Motorola plant ,most DIDN'T live in Harvard did they ?? Did you live in Elhkorn and commute ?? It sure is funny when you find out who someone is ..You are not worth my time !!!

snarly--- and your point is what ???I have been the wife of a GM worker for 27 years,if I listen to everything/everyone about GM... this/that... In the early 80's this plant went to one shift for a year.In 1984 people were told to take jobs eleswhere if they wanted to work at GM.This plant wasn't going to be here much longer.My point is this is NOTHING new for a GM family to deal with.I do believe that we will also get thru this and have a good out come.This will be the future of Janesville one way or another... I choose to have a good out look on life ..you should try the same.

ihavealife: You do???? Just because your husband works for GM does not give all the answers. ZOOM is obviously aware of what is going on and can carry on intelligently while you just babble on about the horror of this.

I will agree that this is not a good thing for Janesville but it is NOT the end of Janesville. As Zoom stated the city has been growing while GM has not. Sure it will take some money out of the local economy for awhile but Janesville will survive.

You always have the answers as you sit back and bash the city government. Why don't you try and change the city government, run for office next time around. Wait...On a second thought, do everyone else in the city a favor and don't run.

When Motorola left Harvard, which is much smaller than Janesvilee, they survived. They had over 5000 empoloyees that were displaced and most, myself being one of them, found equal or better jobs.

*When one door gets closed another will always open.

you just can't deal with fact that GM is on the out's and for the city Manager Ya I hope HE/SHE will be better than that last peice of horse pooo You jump on me for saying what is happening and you can't handle it wake up every one read today's paper and GM is shutting down for more than the 2 weeks ????

snarly.... If the city can BUY new manhole covers(that we DONT need)they will also help pay for the meeting with GM. Do you or anyone eles think that the city of Janesville will not pull out all the stops to keep GM here ??Remember we will be getting a NEW city manager in Sept.with that lets all hope he/she will CARE about our city !!!!For you or anyone eles to have joy in what is happening in this county it just blows my mind !

And the UAW to fork out money to give a city person a free ride NOT.

well we all know that chad-vader is a plant RAT and you think the city is going to pay for the trip HA HA you are smoking crack. with all the flooding and street repair's going on I don't think so. WAKE UP

Wow! Way to state what we all know, Mr. Obvious! If we were all quitters like you then this plant would have been gone long ago. We all know what is at stake, very few are in denial of the realities. But we build the very best SUV's because WE know we can and do not listen to nay sayers who always give up. And I would think the Union would probably for city officials trip since it is in their best interest.

but the chance of them talking GM in to staying are very little to none.

woooo all this talk and no action if the team of personel who are going to talk to GM can get their stuff together you might have a chance,but who is going to pay for the travel,hotel,food,ect.

One wold think if there is to be any sort of meeting with GM next month that they had better know what it is that will be presented to GM. The article indicated pretty much the opposite. One would also think that unless Local 95, Janesville and Wisconsin are able to make GM an offer that they simply cannot refuse that GM in Janesville will be but a memory.

Also, Janesville has grown, DESPITE GM's steady decline in employment.

If GM ends up filing Chapter 11, the VEBA could be trimmed, or not funded at all. CH11 would also allow GM to kill GMC, Pontiac and Buick without having to deal with franchise laws.

Either that, or GM gets a huge government bailout, ala Chrysler.

close the plant so I can buy some of the nice houses on the north east side for cheap.

The contract wording is significant. That is why GM in the past has been able to alter retired salaried employees benefits but not retired union employees benefits;
Not counting the last contract fiasco which is under a different scenario altogether.

There is a difference between Pabst and GM. It's all in the contract wording, or lack of.

JohnDoe, I apologize for the misspelling. To make it simpler for you, there is case history on the subject and if you are one of them you'll know if GM plays that trump card.

Zoom I will say that you do make me laugh... I'm going to take that as a joke about our city leaders need to start focusing on other opportunities for companies to come here !!!I understand that it has to start somewhere/sometime . Lets say they find this company..They would have to find the land, build etc. how long do you think that would take ?? 2 maybe 3 years..WOW you have more faith in the leadership than I do.(i hope that changes in sept. for me) What stopped them from seeking those opportunities before this closing ?? Did they think that we didn't need jobs or grownth in Janesville ?? If you think back on times that companies DID want to come here ,they were make to jump tru hoops and anything eles that the city thought was a good idea at the time. I understand about wanting and needing answers from people on what their plans are ,but the city of Janesville needs to be able to work easily with companies also.Sorry but the horse has already gotten out of the barn...and now you think they should shut the door..Janesville is not ready or able to take this change,alot of people still look at Janesville as being that nice little town that nothing ever happens in or to !They worry more about RVs that are parked in parking lots or if they will be able to have a beer at the fireworks !!

And which "president" is that tallman?

I forgot to add that if retirees believe that they will always have health insurance paid by GM, better check with others like the retirees from Pabst in Milwaukee. There is a president already set on how to end retiree insurance.

I am really getting a kick out of the comments. First Wisconsin is no longer the dairy state, California is, as we have been in the dairy business including products for many years. This state and many others have let the small farm and businesses go by the wayside to large corporate invested farms. Small local businesses were the back bone of our economy. I said it earlier that when these workers go to Farm & Fleet, Wal-mart and all other stores except the small mom and pop businesses(which are not unionized and cheaper) buying foreign products and auto parts they started their own dimize. You can't make $25 plus an hour and expect those all around you making $9-$15 per hour to buy your product and still survive. None of us know the exact financial status of GM no more than share holders and others knew about Enron!! I am also against our state investing tax dollars paid by those not even living close to this plant. It's not fare to expect those to hold up the GM finances to retool or rebuild. That financial burden should be laid on the union, workers and GM investors. We have removed our investments from GM as they have no interest in real eco-friendly production. We must not drill for more oil to make the oil companies richer. Yet, we must reach a point of desperation it seems to develope and produce petroleum free and friendly vehicles. If we can land a space vehicle on Mars with a landrover both without petroleum to function then we can build a petroleum free environment. It's all about lobbyists and foreign influence running our country.

The Gazette article that mentioned 9000 jobs lost also used the phrases "It’s a worst-case scenario" and "but the multiplier of 4 on the job loss is probably too high".

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/jun...

ihavealife,
Thank you for giving just a few reasons why our leaders need to start focusing on new work opportunities beyong GM.

You wanted a source. Read this article, from The Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...

Copenhagen and Stanster aren't fooling all of us. They are what I call "fire starters" and others might term "flamers". They pop in on all kinds of forums, throw out a demeaning statement and then stand back and let the fights begin. The subject matter probably matters zip. They just want to start something ... it would be more useful if they would go start their lawnmowers, clean up the outside of their houses, or go volunteer somewhere. There are more useful ways to get your jollies in life.

can't we all just get along?????

And, that's not a good thing.

stanster....you're too funny.

Zoom...When GM FIRST came here who do you think worked at GM?? It would be safe to say farmers or day labors,after all at that time 100 years ago that was normal.And guess what they built....TRACTORS.As far as not being able to separate my husband from the company that he works for..."THAT COMPANY "for as cornie as it my sound to you or others happens to be a VERY BIG PART OF OF OUR FAMILY.I wouldn't even try to explain that to you because I'm sure you won't understand it ! It seems to me that you can't or won't see past the fact that this is so much more than just GM.9000 jobs in Rock Co. alone will be lost.247 of those jobs are in the educational field,but that's ok because we will have the 2 new additions on the highschools to look at,short on teachers but real nice buildings ! I'll give you that there is life after GM... But at what cost to our future ??? Have you thought about that ??

Doesn't GM employ a significant number of women? And how many GM employees are actually farmers? No matter how you spin it, he's stereotyping.

Again, I can't help it that you can't separate your spouse's job from the company he works for. You seem to take every negative comment about GM as an attack on your husband, or the Union. I'm sure these are trying times for you, and many others. If the truth hurts, maybe you shouldn't read the comments. If the only truth you beleive is what comes from the GM PR spin, then the transition will be even harder.

Again, I never said I wouldn't be effected, only that my job won't be. Believe it or not, there is life outside of GM.

Yes he did !!! You see NOT ALL PEOPLE think like you ?? I'm PROUD to live in the GREAT DAIRY STATE of WISCONSIN(farm boys)and the PROUD WIFE OF A UNION MEMBER !! You don't have to say where you work,but what field are you in ?? Yesterdays paper sure seem to cover just about every field of work that would see lost of jobs from the job and income lost in the county ! Or are you just special and really won't be affected ?lol

Did Rick Wagoner really call Janesville GM workers "them Wisconsin dairy farmer boys"? After that stereotype, you still believe in this guy? Wow.

thanks...I thought that looked wrong.

politicians

...or listeners, for that matter.

Yes, polititions "never" get their facts wrong.

Zoom --There again I must of heard it WRONG on the radio last week(not).Maybe Paul Ryan will set the record straight for you and others that have all the answers on GM...PLEASE !

Unidentified,
Good summary of GM's situation.

All I ever said was that my job wasn't dependant on GM, after someone else posted that "every" job in Janesville is "dependant" on GM. The only people posting that this won't effect them are the trolls.

Shareholders don't get to vote on the closing of a plant. Give me a break. You have been drinking the GM kool-aid for too long.

Here is one of my posts that seems appropriate here:
"It amazes me that some GM employees are still so loyal that they fail to lay blame where it belongs...corporate management. This isn't Janesvilles fault; this isn't the markets fault; this isn't labors fault. Honda, Toyota and Nissan are not having the sales downturns that GM, Ford and Chrysler are having, because the former had the foresight to build the right vehicles people want."

Zoom -- Do you get ALL your infro from a crystal ball ?? Or is it from your favorite web site "the truth about cars" ?? I believe you have said that GM closing will not have any affect on you(lol),so what do you think about the 9000 jobs lost in Rock Co.or the lost of 500 million dollars ? I think I can say this for myself and others on here.....WE GET IT!!! YOU KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT NOTHING "GENERAL MOTORS" !!!!Maybe you should give the CEO a call and enlighten him on the bleak out look of GM By the way he DIDN'T want to close this plant,the share holders voted to close Janesville .WE still have him on our side !He likes the job THEM WISCONSIN DAIRY FARM BOYS HAVE DONE !!!

I love how completely uneducated people are in regards to the local plant. If GM were to stay open, many of the new jobs would be under the second tier of 14 dollars per hour (assuming GM ramped back up to two shifts, which most GM plants are normally two or three). As a result, the argument that the local GM workers are paid too much for GM to make money isn’t valid. The decision to keep this plant open has to do with other factors including GM’s capacity, cash on hand, and product line up. Right now GM has more plants then capacity, which doesn’t help our situation. In addition, GM, as many have read, has been losing billions per month and has liquidity issues past this year. This also doesn’t help our situation, because GM doesn't have the money to revamp or rebuild our plant. However, GM will make a big push into smaller more fuel efficient crossovers and cars. Many of the car designs will be taken from GM’s successful European operations. This is where Janesville can make stake its claim. We have a long successful history of building good cars and trucks in Janesville with an excellent location. Our goal is to convince GM that we can successfully produce those new cars or crossovers GM will be producing in the coming years and help GM not only gain its investment in GM Janesville back, but to profit from it. Are the odds stacked against us? Yes. Is there still hope? Yes. Regardless of your affiliation, or lack of, with GM, it can be nothing but beneficial for GM to remain open. I still think it is extremely important that Janesville diversify, but right now we have several thousand qualified production workers ready to go to work. There are very few local alternatives as we speak, so until we get further diversified and educated, keeping GM in town is our best hope in the near term.

GM is just trying to tread water until 2010, when cash will be freed up after the UAW takes on health care for workers. I don't expect the GM plant to stay open that long.

copenhagen,

It is obvious you have never opened a Wall Street Journal or the business section of any paper. GM's problem is not with paying $28/hr. Its biggest financial stress is paying health care coverage to its retired employees. Before you make a comment on GM or any other company, educate yourself first. It really would only take you an hour with a search engine like Google. That way you won't look like such a moron next time you post to these boards.

GM will not keep this plant open, building cars or anything else. The sooner people come to terms with that, the sooner their time and energy can be put towards luring other businesses to Janesville.

ah, are you trying to hurt my feelings? I could care less if it shuts down.

wahoo: they won't be paying people $28/hr in Janesville. If they were to stay open, a majority of their workforce would be new hires: therefore making $14/hr.
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If there's a will, there's a way.
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And, I said it on another thread: if there's a petition, I will sign it.

copen-Your comment HAS too be the @@@@_@@@@ I have ever heard !!! ALL AMERICAN auto workers make the same or real close wage... so are you saying the big 3 should all shut down ??? You won't be affected because you will be riding your tricycle ,some people just don't get it !! Maybe you should get one of the jobs that are open at the plant !! But I'm SURE you are one of the many that will feel no ill- affect from the loss of GM ...Count your blessings now because 1 in 6 will be !!!

everyone knows GM workers are paid too much to make any profit, shut it down, janesville is a big stinkhole

Wahoo- GM is already hiring in at $10.00/hr here !!! It's in the paper under Aramark- custodial workers...$10.00/hr 32/hrs a week.They will hire 40 to45 people to do the jobs.People that get hired will not be working for GM,because Aramark bid on the jobs and won the contract.The new hires will be doing 14 hrs. of work in 8,this is from someone that applied and was told at job service .Was told the jobs would be VERY fast paced and heavy lifting.So you see the lower paying jobs are already here!!!

The thing is, GM does not need us, in fact, they need to get smaller. GM is still losing money.
Why invest here and keep paying people $28/ph or close here, and hire people down south for $14/ph.

This would be the best news for our community !!! If everyone works together it can and will happen,we need the GM jobs just as much as they need us !! It will never be the same but sometimes change is the way to go !