Council open on skatepark site

I agree with Icare we could use somethings in this city that make it more diverse. This city is just one step away from maybe jumping into the 2000's. I use the dog park on a regular basis (I even signed the petition to say no the the aquatic center) and I also help out the comittee whenever I can and I can tell you that when the skatepark is there that it will be much like when someone is using the field to play a game of baseball (which doesnt happen often). When walking my dogs I never use the field to walk, thats what all the trails in the actual "dog park" are for. The area the park is propsed for is actually the never used baseball field next to the broke down tennis court. I also agree that I dont want anything else in the area that makes us look more industrialized. THe skatepark to me would look more like a playground then an eye sore.

Lakennedy, I'm sorry you misread me on this subject, but I believe all the kids deserve equal recreation "rights and privileges". If there was a good location readily available that was unbiased to one particular point of the city I would be all for it. I find that in this town people get very defensive of "their side" (East and West, typically). When we built Whitewaters park (granted its much smaller) this was never a topic of discussion. This is commonly the case with most town, its more about the fact that they are getting a park then where its located (and who is getting favored). I'm truly not biased as I believe I technically fall under Franklin's jurisdiction, I just know that someday I don't have to drive to go ride (and I spend a lot of money doing it right now).
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I guess people need to ask themselves why they are getting up in arms about the location. Is it truly because there is a better place for this particular park, or is it because of what is "fair".
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Perhaps its hard to understand the shade issue, or the wind issue, honestly these things sound trivial to most. The thing is I encourage anyone wishing to throw out advice to go to a park and check out the things I'm talking about. On blazing hot days how many kids are out in parks that have no shelter? On windy days how many kids are riding? Go to Beloit, Whitewater, or Delevan and see for yourselves what its like. Then come back and speculate with me on the issue.
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I would also encourage you to ask the kids how far they came from to ride. I think you might be surprised how many kids are willing to make the sacrifice or "commuting" a few miles to do their sport.
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As for money, I have a hard time understanding why now would be the time that it will actually get built, but I have hope. Most people don't even realize that this is something that has been going on for over 5 years. Beloit, Whitewater, and Delevan's projects were all started after Janesville's had been started, and all were completed with Janesville no where near breaking ground. The thing is that was when economically things were much stronger, Janesville just avoided the issue. Now, interestingly enough, we have finally gotten the attention of the council and it seems like they are taking things more seriously. They have enough money to throw $1million at baseball, I should hope they have $250,000 for a sport that they are banning from the streets. The kids need a place to go. Trying to raise money from citizens like you and I, buisnesses, etc is hard work, especially when there is no obvious city backing (and the harder economic times that we are finding ourselves in makes things even worse).
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As I have stated many times in this blog, its imperative in a project like this that the city shows support. Start up capital, a pad, and land are what donors need to see to know they are investing in something that will happen. Build the pad and you will see the money.

IcareYdon'tU:
Please explain the funding issue.
I don't even think we need to be arguing about this park if taxpayer dollars are going to be used. Especially if it is at the Palmer location, since the grant Scheiffer refers to in the above article does not apply to that location.
If there is even $1 of taxpayer money used on this park, I seriously doubt that it will happen within the next ten years--for obvious reasons.
If the money is going to be raised privately, then that is a horse of a different color. I still question where the money will come to maintain the park, though.
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As a teacher, I had hoped you would understand the need to draw positive activities to an area you describe as "dilipated". I'm sorry that you see more of a priority in supporting the Palmer location because of its natural shade, then the real priority of bringing a positive activity to an area like Jackson Street. You teach at Marshall, right? What about the other children in this city that don't live in that area, and have very limited access to the activities over there?

I suggest you take up the river front complex issue with the City Council then, whybesad. If the complex is going to be built, putting the skate park there would be a huge draw to the area.
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I'm aware of the bars on Jackson Street. I just wanted to point out the fact that there are just as many bars within a mile of the Palmer location.

From a parental stand point I think as of right now Jackson street is kind of dilapidated. There is plenty of room for improvement, but that would require more city dollars, which seems to be an issue for some. Sadly, that area is dominated by bars and the looming, soon to be closed factory. If kids want to get drinks for food the only place to do so within close riding/skating distance is the gas station (which wouldn't rank in being one of my favorites). The Palmer location conveniently has several fast food places, not to mention gas stations to snag food and drinks (not to mention over the summer when the concession stand is open). As always, I'm not saying the Jackson street idea should be nixed, I can sympathize with people on the far side of town, but...

Whybesad, I am constantly frustrated by the way my tax dollars are used in this town, but it would be ever so nice to have something done for this group that has been banned and overlooked in this town. Ask any DT business if the skateboarders need a place to go, I'm sure they can help you understand why this could be considered a pressing WANT (not NEED, of course :-)).

No need for more taxpayer money for a complex to handle a skate park. Sounds like the people who want a skate park are willing to put up their own money and raise money. Keep taxpayer dollars out of it if at all possible.For the bar situation you have Dools pub and grub, 708 club, Game Day,Slicks. There is three one the same road.

I'm quite certain that the riverfront park complex that Scheiffer referred to will have restrooms, shutupandfish.
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Those of you so concerned about the bars in the Jackson Street area, I assume you are aware of the THREE bars...Charlies, Park Place, and Stokes right near the Palmer location, right?
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The Palmer location would also give them restrooms that are already there. There are also drinking fountains available. No need to run over to the bars when nature calls. The bike trail at Palmer is in the middle of the trail. The Jackson street location is more towards the starting/ending point.

Oh, and people I talked to were from all areas of town. My students would be more biased to the East side.

Another way I see it, regardless to where the park is put in its still closer then Beloit, Delevan, or Whitewater. I can easily ride to any location, and no matter what part of town the kids are in there is a max ride of 3 miles or so on a bike path (sorry, I have raced for years and 3 miles doesn't strike me as bad). Most kids will be using the park on weekends and over the summer and they have all day to trek around town. I imagine that most will just be delighted to have something to do (and back to my more sheltered idea, if its hot out they will be more likely to come and play if they know they sun won't be beating down on them).

Oh, and on that topic again. The sun beating on the ramps warms them substantially. Again, having them in a more sheltered area, even a little will cut down on that issue.

That last part about Steve brings up an interesting point. At one point in talking to a city official it was pointed out that after the flood there is a lot of properties that will have to be torn down, hence opening up some potential green space. There is something to be said with that, would that be more central?

I would encourage you all to use a little tool called mapmyrun.com. I use it to plot my wife's run routes, but you can also measure distances from different points in any location. I plugged in Janesville and ran some numbers off of Palmer and Jackson street. People could choose to feel jaded for either location.

Personally, here is another way to look at this whole thing. When riding a skatepark two outside circumstances can play havoc with you. One is the sun, and elements, which is the case for most outdoor sports. Palmers location has the park settled among trees. This will provide a cooler area to ride, which really is important. Second, the area is more protected from wind. I will suspect that few of you have ever aired out of a quarter, or jumped a spine or box jump. Speaking from experience, things get a little hairy when you get in the air and a gust of wind blows you off course like a kite. Jackson street is pretty wide open. There is little if any protection from wind or the sun, unless they nestle it close to the tree line to the north. Palmer is naturally in a bowl area, plenty of trees, much more comfort and shelter. I know this point doesn't mean much to some of you that feel slighted by the location, but perhaps consider what I'm saying (and for me, its probably closer to go to Jackson, but I will still prefer Palmer due to the reasons I just stated).

IcareYdontU: Do the people whom you've spoken to who prefer the Palmer location happen to live on the east side? I'll bet they do. My point is that it is pretty obvious that the east side is saturated with these types of activities. Many people oppose the Jackson Street location because it is near bars. I'm trying to point out that just abandoning the area is not the answer. Bringing in activities to engage the kids in that area in something productive will be a huge benefit to the area. Shutupandfish writes that the Palmer location is great because it is right off the bike trail. So is the Jackson site. He/She further writes that "we need to look out for the kids..." What kids are you referring to? The kids on the east side? Why not start looking out for the kids that live throughout Janesville by showing them that their community is something they can be proud of? What about the kids that live down by GM? It is pretty obvious that the east side has enough activities. It is time to invest in the rest of Janesville. Shutupandfish also writes that there is ample parking in Palmer Park. In this article, Steve Scheiffer is quoted as saying that there are plans to create a major riverfront park. Surely the parking issue would be addressed.
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Lakennedy, if you go back through the posts I think you will find your preaching to the choir. I believe most people, including Fern and Roger are open to Jackson street. I do have to impress that MOST of the people I have talked to on the subject have been for Palmer. Those people would include a goodly number that I discussed the situation with at the fair (when I worked the skatepark booth), students at my schools, their parents. etc, etc. I also worked Benifest (a fund raiser for the park) and overall people were very in favor of the Palmer site. Again, I'll say that it isn't locked in but I hope this won't turn into another battle to further impede this process.

Opinionsforfree, your ignorant stance is a thing of beauty. Way to be proactive!

I know a ton of people who do not support the palmer park location. I do will do what I can to make sure that it isn't built in that location.

Palmer Park is a great location it's on the bike trail. It's a park that people already go to. The parking is already there. The Jackson Street location isn't that good. There are all kinds of bars down there and isn't a real good idea to put a skate park next to drinking establishments. Maybe Monteray park would work? Since lakekennedy is bent on having it located down on Jackson Street. We need to look out for the kids. Something a few people don't want to do.

How, exactly, does Palmer make the most sense? How would it be the safest? Because there are sex offenders near the Jackson location? I suppose these offenders don't leave that neighborhood, right? It may be more accessible for you, whybesad, but I guarantee the Palmer location is not more accessible for EVERYONE.
If the Palmer location is the only option for this skate park, I guarantee it will lose a lot of support. Everyone I've spoken to, off of this webpage, is disgusted with the fact that people won't even consider taking the park to the Jackson Street location. I understand that Mrs. Streich feels she was misquoted, and I look forward to reading a retraction if that is the case, but I will have NO support for this project if it is presented in a "Palmer or nothing" manner.

Where do you donate for the park? The citizens should step up and get this done. Call your council members and get in their ear about this. Palmer makes the most sense and would be the safest and most accessible.

In case anyone is still reading this, I emailed Fern about the article and this was her response

"The statement about the donated money not being used (turned over) for the
skate park----never was said. Also, it had never been said another site
wouldn't be considered-----we had explained about putting it in a safe,
accessible site with necessary amenities. They used parts here-and-there,
dropped or cut off many parts of the conversation. The gal, Marcia N., was
going by memory & hadn't even written anything down. Roger had a meeting
with Greg Peck, the author of the editorial, this morning."

Touche!

I’m taking advantage of some opportunities allotted to me and finishing up school. That is the action I can take and something I have direct control over. As a result, I hope to continue living in Janesville with my new education. However, though I’m optimistic and taking action, I alone cannot change the circumstances our city faces and I’m uncertain of the results. This is way I’m so adamant about what our city is focused on. In addition, this isn’t just for me, but for the many others who find themselves in my situation. Let’s hope for those wanting a skate park that the Jackson Street location gets the full potential funding, which would expedite the process, take some of the burden away from donors or the city, and would gain more widespread approval. In the end, location and popularity aside, that may be the only way this project sees the light of day in the near future. Though we may not agree completely, we’ve found some common ground and had an interesting debate on the subject, which is, in my opinion, a good blog discussion.

Hey Unidentified. First off, I'm sorry for your situation. I'll just leave that at that.

As for commuting, I have plenty of friends (and family) that pull the driving gig every day. For some moving will be a choice, but for most I would imagine that having to find a buyer for their homes, find affordable living, etc etc is going to be a task much harder then some might think. By all means I like the fact that I live within a mile of my job and can ride my bike to work, I would hate to have to commute for 30+ minutes everyday. I just think that right now is going to be a really hard time for people to pull the eject button.

The injury stats, I would encourage you to look into it. Many studies have been done on the subject. Yes I see your point about the sheer numbers, but I would argue that more kids ride bikes then play baseball, or basketball, or football, combined. This is one of those "life sports". Inline skating could be considered the same, skateboarding, well, you might have me on that one, but kids playing the mainstream sports are not the majority. Many of the kids doing the sports typically do all of them. A far greater group choose not to participate in such things. I'm not going to argue about which group is bigger, but again, I think you would (and hopefully will) be surprised.

Finally, as in all of my responses, I am fine with Jackson street. I think a lot of people are, thats fine. BUT, if there is no benifit (ie grant money or some other capital) I'm not so sure its the best choice.

Oh, and I'm an optimistic guy seeking results through my actions :-)

PS: I'm not a glass half full or half empty guy, I'm a actuality guy. Optimism is a powerful thing, but only when accompanied by action and results. Nevertheless, I am very optimistic that the Gazette is getting good ad traffic from this debate.

Kids get hurt in all sports, but most organized sports are accompanied by adults. In addition, to argue that a sport that requires someone roll on four wheels and jump cement obstacles is safer is ridiculous. That is like saying riding a motor cycle is safer, because less people die in motorcycle accidents than do car accidents. The reason more people are hurt in other sports is because more people are involved in other sports. I used to ride a skateboard when I was a kid, I’m not naive. If people kicked me off my skate board, I rode my BMX. I never felt entitled to ride my board on the road or at a skate park. I worked with the hand I was dealt and found ways to have fun. That is how life works, sometimes you can’t have everything. The price of housing is negated by the price of gas hybrid or not. Have you read blogs on this site? Numerous people have posted on related topics that they are selling (if they can) because the cost associated with commute negates housing cost. If all things are roughly equal, why would someone waste 3o-45 minutes of their time commuting. Unless you consider fast food chains diversifying our economy, then I would suggest that Janesville has been asleep at the wheel. How progressive is that? Now we have the choice of three different taco chains, which is a big leap forward. Non progressive or progressive has nothing to do with it. I’m all for continuing to improve our city if we can afford it. However, Janesville has a habit of spending money it doesn’t have unwisely and we have major economic decisions facing us. I’m one of thousands of people out of work in this town. I want my city to concentrate on making sure I don’t have to move out of town. I want to stay here and contribute to this city, but may have no choice but to move. I’m not alone, because I see hundreds of people just like me at the Job Center. The city can turn a blind eye to this fact, but one trip by the Job Center parking lot, which is packed, will prove my point. I know this situation won’t improve overnight, but it can’t even begin until we recognize it and work to fix it. People are still avoiding my point on the Jackson Street location having the potential to happen sooner with additional funding (depending on the amount), but is it Palmer Park or nothing? The inability of those involved to be flexible may be to the detriment of the project. Keep the project at Palmer and wait for funding that may never come or be flexible. The choice is yours.

Unidentified, I’m a glass full kind of person. I imagine with this particular issue you will continue to find negatives regardless to how good the proof is to having a park in Janesville (at any location, which you keep arguing about and I keep saying, I’m fine with just getting a park at ANY LOCATION). Also, again, I agree with the poor parenting, lets move on from that particular issue.

It’s interesting that you bring up the injury aspect. Studies have shown that kids typically are LESS likely to get hurt in these sorts of activities when compared to other sports (basketball, football, soccer, etc). Kids seem to be more likely to wear pads and helmets, which assists this. Falling is also a part of the activity, it comes with the territory and the more you do your sport the better you get at it. I remember playing football when I was in HS with my friends. We never wore pads, played on frozen ground, and we got hurt a lot. Crashing on ramps actually breaks a persons fall and alleviates a lot of injuries. That’s of course not to say a person won’t get hurt, I have gotten hurt plenty of times, but not because I was “forced into it” by my friends. Watching kids at parks it is quite the opposite. Generally users start small and work their way up. Again, I’m going to have to question your amount of time involved with viewing the sport. For me, 100s if not thousands of hours I’ve spent at parks (going on 10 plus years of riding them). It’s amazing how FEW injuries you will actually see.

As for babysitting, that could be said about every sport facility. Will you see kids with out parents, yes, but you will see SOME parents, and you will see older participants falling into mentoring roles to help kids learn about flow, taking turns, where to start, and what to do. It’s a learning process; one I have witnessed many times, and one that I think you could perhaps try to have a bit more faith in.

As for retaining people in Janesville, and why we are where we are, we can choose to speculate why that is. Spending by the city on activities, I’m going to wager not. Based perhaps on non-progressive thinking, perhaps more accurate. And as for people moving to Madison, have you seen what houses go for up there, because I have. Most people in Janesville that are commuting will do much better for themselves to retain their low cost of housing and get a nice hybrid car to do their commutes. I have a feeling that given the right circumstances a lot of Janesville will stay right where they are

I personally think adults look for too many excuses to let other activities baby sit their kids rather than spend quality time with them. If it isn’t video games, a movie, then it’s sports, or a friend’s house etc. It would be all too convenient to drop the kids off at the skate park. Granted, this isn’t what the skate park is supposed to be, but inevitably it would end up as such. The benefit in the skate park over other activities would be in the exercise generated from it. However, rules must be established, because kids do get hurt at these parks. I have a family member who’s made multiple trips to the emergency room due to his trips to the skate park. These kids get together and tend to do tricks they aren’t normally comfortable with, because they are showing off for friends. This not only requires more of the cities resources, but kids could end up with permanent injuries. I still argue that Janesville has a wealth of outdoor resources available already and that a skate park isn’t necessary to promote the city or to keep youth active. I’ve also said before that if a skate park is that important to its proponents, then location alone shouldn’t be important beyond the obvious logistical issues. The Jackson Street location isn’t geographically that far from the Palmer one, so the argument about sex offenders is ridiculous. As it stands now, regardless of location popularity, the skate park at the Palmer location will take many more years to obtain enough funding. On the other hand, the potential for supplemental grand funding at Jackson Street may provide a more reasonable time line for the implementation of the skate park. In addition, Gazette polling shows far more support for the Jackson Street location, which will result in more donations. I think at this point it is best to see what funding is available for Jackson Street. And again considering Janesville is ranking at a top ten in job losses in the country, our priorities should be vested in job creation and economic development. The city has spent too many years up to this point concentrating on recreational activities (parks, bike trails, etc…), which is part of why we are in such circumstances to begin with. It doesn't matter how many parks, trails, or other activities we have if nobobdy can find jobs here. With gas prices so high, people can no longer afford to commute to Madison. As a result, people won't want to live in Janesville if they can't work here.

Lakennedy,

Sorry on the “need” and “want” thing. I use the same justification on words when my wife says she NEEDS a Prada bag (not going to happen on our salary, but she still likes them).

Second, I think Fern and Roger have done a great thing by sticking to this battle for the last few years, but I do not always agree with their methods. I feel bad that people may be forced away from the project by their tactics. Please stay behind the project, there are others of us that will continue to work for a park. I am open to other locations, though my preference is Palmer (and that’s not about the East vs. West side thing. It’s just a better location for travelers and its still connected by the back paths. Having used the paths I can see that Palmer does sit more to the middle of it, but I won’t argue that point with out proof.

As for your other questions.
2. I sure hope so. I plan to contact the council members this week on the subject and try to make sure that the Streichs aren’t ruining the project. They claim they were misquoted by the Gazette (imagine that), so who knows, maybe there really isn’t as big of an issue that we are sensing.

3. From the last meeting the council was trying to get a bit more information for where the site should be, how much money was available, etc etc. Many of them feel a need for a park, its just a matter of how much they can afford to put out there. The batting cages are on the fringe of that grant area as well and they need to be sure it can even qualify.

4. Read my lower posts about the funding issue. One thing I have found with past park projects that I have been involved in, there is a key to getting funding, and that is a city showing support. Most neighboring towns put up a good amount of start up capital, in addition to putting down a concrete pad (once a design was created) to show that they were behind a project. Magically all the money needed to complete a park appears within months of the pad going down. Community donors just need to feel that they aren’t just throwing their money into a project that will never happen. Even in our current situation (the cities), it’s amazing how much money people have to donate to good causes.

Alright, I’ll try to hit everything here.

Opinionsforfree, I am sorry for your pessimistic view of what a skatepark can be. I have literally traveled the country riding parks and your “gangbanger” stereotype is a worthless argument. Have you ever been to a skatepark? Have you talked to the users? Close-minded views of what a skatepark can be have restricted this process thus far, and so it continues.

I was one of three college-aged kids that got Whitewaters park built. We had tons of support from the community and council and things worked smoothly and were accomplished in just over a year. We had the “not in my backyard” people, but its surprising how now there are no complaints. The users are your average kids, not “gangbangers”. Its amazing as well, since a lot of kids became part of the project they actually defend the property, keeping vandalism and shady situations away.

Unidentified, you would be surprised how similar our views of today’s youth are. I believe the district could save a lot of money by eliminating the sports programs and putting that money into retaining aids and arts teachers, but that’s a different argument. My point is that the city is willing to support all other sports, they SHOULD (not need) be fair to the kids that are apart of alternative sports and provide a place for them to do their thing. IMO this should be done before new facilities are made for other sports (even if the other groups are raising the majority of the funds, a million bucks is still a million bucks, and we are only asking for a fourth of that to cover our whole project).

I will argue that this is the right time for a park because we need to make Janesville that much more attractive to retain and draw people to live in our town. Most kids, regardless to what you may believe, are attracted to skateparks. Parents, knowing that the city provides free recreational facilities for kids to play, may consider the positives of moving here or staying (and I believe retention for economic purposes is important). I think you also discredit the adult population that you may be surprised to see at a skatepark (myself included). We are taxpayers; we spend money on food, gas, whatever else. My friends will travel here to ride, again, providing more money to restaurant and gas stations. As small of a group as it may be perceived, its still people spending money (and I believe a basic economic rule is that often you have to spend money to get money).

After reading the comments entered in the last two days, I have a couple of questions:

1. IcareUdon't: You stated in your post on August 2, 8:58 PM that "Janesville needs a skate park, no doubt."--Are you aware of the differences between "wants" and "needs"? Janesville NEEDS a lot of things right now, a skate park is not one of them. That being said and with all due respect, I think that the effort put forth by the Striech family and other skate park supporters should count for something. This is not a situation where the taxpayers will be footing the bill, it is a proactive approach taken by certain people to provide the community with a positive activity. There are a lot of skaters who are not vandals, and it is unfortunate that they are stereotyped that way. My only concern is the location of the park. While you may have questioned the "natural" aspect of Palmer in your post, IcareUdon't, you also listed a number of activities that already exist in that area. It is time to start bringing positive activites to other areas of town. If the Streich family continues to threaten to withhold the money raised because of the possible location change, I will have NO support for this project. I think a lot of possible supporters would agree with me. That side of town is SATURATED with activities. The rest of the town needs exactly this type of attention.

I have a few other questions...

2. It is my understanding that the old council approved the Palmer location, and that approval is now null and void. If the current council does not approve the Palmer location, is the skate park even a possibility, given the stance that the Streichs have taken?

3. What, exactly, will the council be deciding in terms of the skate park (funding opportunities, location approval, etc), and when?

4. Where will the remaining funding that is needed be coming from? More fundraising? I've read of a possible grant for the Jackson St. location, is that grant still a possibility, and if so, will it be enough?

IcareYdontU: I think you are completely missing my point. Children do matter and they are important to our future, so they should hit the books and if they are getting A's with little effort, then it's too easy for them. We lag behind many other developed nations in testing scores and for some reason I’m debating a teacher about a skate park. The problem for today's children is that too much emphasis is placed on extra curricular activities (sports). I would estimate more than half the community has dogs. As a result, I think it isn’t the “dog people,” it’s the dog community. People are asking the community to support a skate park a very small fraction of the community would use and support. Granted, that is not to say they shouldn’t have something just because they don’t have the mass numbers behind them. What I’m saying is that the location and available funding must be taken into consideration by all the community. I agree both adults and children have too much, but I think those days are changing fast.

justsome1here: I agree adults don’t only consider economics when moving thankfully, because we don’t have that going for us right now. However, Janesville has one of the best park systems in Southern Wisconsin, which can be used by adults and children alike. Inline skating is popular with young kids also and we have plenty of trails for that. Unless the kids live right near Palmer, they are going to have to be driven to the skate park regardless. I doubt any adult looking to transfer would turn away Janesville simply because we don’t have a skate park. I don’t live anywhere near Palmer Park. My opposition to that location goes to the point that Janesville continually tries to fill every open plot of land at Palmer, be it water parks or skate parks, rather than leave the area in its already utilized state. At this point, there is still some open field and wooded area left, which makes it look like an actual park. I think it is important for Janesville to preserve open land other than greenbelt for park space. In twenty or thirty years Janesville will be thankful that space exists. Lastly, and for the umpteenth time, we have more pressing issues to deal with in this city right now then our park system and what is included in it.

Why build a skate park anywhere, it is just going to get taken over by wannabe gangsters
Then rival gangs can take turns "tagging" the place as their own. After that I would assume nobody would go there anymore because some kid got shot. I assume that private funding of this project is going to pay for the police service, and upkeep that are going to be required for this? To the city council: Stop acting like there is an endless supply of money for you to blow on needless crap. Try taking care of the stuff we already have first

Unidentified - I am not so short sighted or naive enough to think that young adults only consider economics when they are deciding where to relocate - especially if they are considering raising a family. You are right, the immediate future is in the hands of adults and those adults need to convey the message that the children of this community matter. Your posts are conveying to me that you are not opposed to the skate park as long as it is "not in your backyard". As I recall, it was not the skate park that would be taking away the dog park but the proposed aquatics center.

Unidentified...

Well, you raise some good points, like that the kids already have to much (and the same could be said about their parent, if I you don't mind me generalizing). Maybe you could list some good places that you suggest our youth hang out? Perhaps sticking the "energy drink" saturated throngs into shopping areas for hours on end is a good idea? I for one, and I will wager many others would agree, that a good outdoor area is probably a better choice.

I also am all for a skatepark at whatever location. I won't argue with you about that. The problem is that grant money is typically used for lots of projects, and the idea that such a huge chunk of it would be taken out for the park was to be considered heavily optimistic. Now the council did say they needed to sit down and nail in some numbers, we will see how that turns out. On the other hand, if they aren't coming up with the funds its a hard sell to change over to Jackson street.

I would also like to know how much interaction you have with middle schoolers? I hang out with hundreds of them every day. I hear them talking about their activities, I am pretty intune with what they like to do. To say that our Poll was off I would strongly beg to differ. Most kids have a bike, a skateboard, a scooter, or inline skates. Most kids have the equipment to partake in riding at a skatepark. This really opens up the doors to more kids then you would expect to use the facilities.

And as for people needing to share, I believe that most kids involved with these sports have nothing to share. They have been banned from the downtown. Thats interesting because the Dog People are banned from city parks all summer. Wouldn't it be bad to ban them and not give them a place to go? Thats the problem, Janesville banned skaters from DT but did not provide an alternative.

Lastly, I like your comment that the kids should go to beloit. Do you suggest they skate there? The beauty of the dog parks, either side of town, most dog owners have cars that they can relocate themselves fairly easy (sorry to generalize). On the other hand, most kids that skateboard or participate in similar sports don't have cars or licenses to get to Beloit. Not sure how that would work (cuz their parents typically work as well and can't just tote their kids around all day).

The energy drink laden comment was a generalization, merely a joke if you would, in response to the, “dog people”. We all have our share of caffeine to get us through the day. Having grown up nearly a world away from Janesville, I can assure you that Janesville does just fine on behalf of young kids compared to most cities I’ve lived in or nearby. There are plenty of outdoor activities available. The small percentage of skate boarders does not reflect the overall population of this town and people’s ability to entertain their children. Who is most likely to buy these skateboards that can cost nearly two hundred dollars in some cases? It is most likely the adults whose children skate board that will purchase the skate boards and safety equipment. As a result, I would suggest that, at this current time, the city concentrate on getting us through this rough patch and ensuring that jobs are available. The immediate future lies in the hands of the adults. They are the ones paying taxes, working jobs, and building this city. Granted, we must also concern ourselves with the distant future, which are our children. However, I don’t think our children’s future will be for not, if we simply don’t’ have a skate park. I personally would rather our focus be geared towards a better education if we are going to worry about our distant future. It’s no secret that American children regularly rank behind other developed nations in various test scores (math science for example). Consequently, I think our efforts, in terms of our children, should be geared towards improving those. However, I think if the skate park is going to be built, we need to find out exactly how much grant money is available for Jackson Street. Someone should be able to obtain an exact figure. Thus, we will be better able to make an informed decision. If the full 100,000 dollars ends up being available, I think Jackson Street makes the most sense fiscally and will bring a skate park to the city much sooner than Palmer.

Unidentified - I wonder how many "dog people", joggers, walkers, etc. that you eluded to start out their day with a good dose of caffine to keep them going (therefore also energy laden). Also please keep in mind that the the future of this city does not rest in the hands of the adults, but in the hands of the children. Those children will grow up to realize that Janesville is not the place they want to raise their children in and therefore leave for more family friendly communities. Seems to me, the more activities for kids the less trouble they get into which benefits everybody.

IcareYdontU: Let me start with your “scientific” polling. Kids want everything, nothing new there. So you poll middle school kids and majorities say they want a skate park, because kids want everything. If you polled them about a dozen different fun things to do, you’d probably get the same results for all of them. Once or twice in their lives they may not get what they want, I think they’ll survive and Beloit isn’t that far way. This has nothing to do with other sports, their complexes, or anything else. Apparently there aren’t enough parents with kids that skate to donate the money and the general public doesn’t support it. The “dog people”, as you seem to call them, already have to share this area with picnickers, volleyball players, walkers, and joggers. It sounds rather condescending to make them appear as annoying and unwilling to share, when they already are. There are two entrances, but one is on the street, which would you use if you had a dog? They are simply just trying to exercise their dogs, which is what part of that land was originally donated for and keep things as they are. On the other hand, let’s add a few dozen energy drink laden (<-----notice my cheesy generalization, very similar to “dog people”) middle school kids into the mix and we’ll have people getting bitten or dogs bolting out of cars chasing after people. “Dog people,” aside, right now there is a nice balance in that area and everyone seems to coexist. The existing structures (pavilions, playground, and pool) blend in with the scenery well and traffic is reasonable. They are also separated from the pet exercise and picnic area by a road and a creek. Moreover, “Dog people,” natural scenery, grant money, location, energy drink lade middle school kids, parents not donating money, polls, cement, creeks, trees, and skateboards aside, now is not the time to be worrying about a skate park. That is considering we rank as one of the top ten cities in the United States for job losses. I don’t understand the people who don’t understand how melancholy (<--- insert word of choice) we are going to be if our leadership doesn’t start concentrating on job growth instead of bike tunnels and skate parks. I can't believe a teacher in our district doesn't recognize our current situation enough to prioritize (I hope you don't teach business or economics). That makes me more nervous than anything else I've read in the last six months. I'll tell you what; we'll take the funding out of your salary or cut funding for schools. Oh, doesn't sound like a good idea? Well a skate park doesn't sound like a good idea, use of time, or use of resources to the thousands of people who either have been or will be getting laid off.

I truly hope that was sarcasm (though I do agree that some of Janesville's youth has perhaps a little to spoiled).

Having kids go out and play, get some exercise and fresh air, participate in something self motivated, and maybe do something a little different then what "everyone else does" would do all of us a favor in the long run.

Kids have enough to in this city. Parents go buy your kids some toys if they have nothing to do.

Oh, to clear up two other things.

The $100,000 for the grant is not for sure, it could be as little as $500-1000, definitely not for sure that it would be that good. I sat for 2.5 hrs the other night to learn that at the council meeting.

Second, the site was approved after an extensive search using city official and DNR. The site was approved by the old council, but because no actions were taken before the old council left office their decision no longer stands. This is partially the fault of Fern and Roger for not pushing harder to the get the pad down, but also a silly rule that after all this time it has to be reconsidered. Its a great location if your thinking about it for the sake of the kids, the sport, and travelers, it blows my mind that the dog people have caused such an issue and are unable to wrap their heads around "sharing" some of the space that is technically not even designated for them.

I also would love to comment on the whole "natural" setting of Palmer. What is so natural about the tennis courts, the swimming pool, the playground, and the pavilions? There are concrete trails and parking lots everywhere. Ramps are made of wood, in the case of this park at least; they can be a couple different colors of "natural" wood, or other colors. Especially considering it will be tucked away down in that corner does it really matter?

Anyway, moving on. What it comes down to is this city needs to provide for the kids. If you want to ban kids from doing a sport because they are wrecking curbs or whatever then give them a constructive place to do it. When kids played baseball in the streets windows got put out, cars were hit, etc etc, they built playing fields and it suddenly became safer for everyone, and constructive. It is very apparent to me that kids need to get outside and play more, lets provide such a place. In our survey the kids commented that there really aren't to many places for them to go and hang out, this could easily be such a place. There is no skating ring, all the kids in Janesville hanging out at the Mall is bad news, make a park, give them a place to go. Obviously all the other towns around Janesville understand this, it amazes me that the biggest one in the area can't figure it out.

Please talk to council people and push for a skate park, don't do it for me, do it for the kids!

I have so many directions I want to go with this so please be patient.

First of all, Janesville needs a skate park, no doubt. I am a teacher in the district and a friend of mine and I worked with his students to conduct a survey that went out to all of the Middle and High school kids. At least 50% of the middle school responses said they would actually use the facilities, a bit less from the HS kids. From both groups, between 70-80% of those surveyed thought the city should build a park. This should speak volumes about a need, the kids want it.

Now, why is there not the support? Great question, but you have to look at the users. A kid joins a little league team and is suddenly part of a huge network of other kids, their parents, etc that take in lots of money and clout. A kid with a skateboard has no team; it’s a solo sport. He/she goes down to the skate park and does their own thing, driven by themselves, perhaps they have a supportive parent, but more likely then not they are on their own with the venture. So it seems unfair that when the baseball people go to the city council, and have existing facilities, and get a cool million for their new complex and the skate park kids just want $250,000 to get a start and they have to wait 5+ years, that’s crazy. Lets try to provide for the needs of all of our kids, not just the few that are in baseball.

So the location. I love the Palmer spot. Its protected from the wind, there is shade from trees, its pretty out of the way. The official dog park actually runs out the other direction. There is no reason why the two groups should cross paths in anything but the parking lot. And why are a small group of dog owners wanting to hold down the thousands of kids that want this park. They have acres to run their dogs, plus another location exits, nothing exits for the skate park users, they have actually been banned from the downtown yet were not given an alternative place to do their sport (seems like discrimination to me). Anyway, the location is also close to the interstate, other people from other towns will come here to use our park. It will bring in revenue to the local gas stations and eating establishments, it will be a bright spot to help put Janesville on the map. On the other hand we could stick the park back in an area off the beaten path that’s a little shady and hope people can find (or be comfortable sending their kids there). Honestly, I just want a park, so to just look at my own needs put it where ever you want, but on the other hand, if we are considering that kids will be going there on their own, and the fact that others will be traveling to get there, it sure would be nice in Palmer.

Chefd: If having a skate park is that important for you and your children, then perhaps having one at all would be beneficial. Location alone, barring any major issues, should not be as important as the ability for the city to fund it. Let’s pretend for argument sake that the Palmer Park location has no detractors, which it does. If the Jackson street location means more funding will be available, then I would suggest that route be taken. On the other hand, people can wait for the next ten years while the city waits for enough private funds for the Palmer park location. There is obviously not as much public support for a skate park as there was for Peace Park. There is 100,000 more dollars on the table for the Jackson street location for the skate park. This allows the project to move forward and may actually provide a better skate park in the long run. Again, I’m opposed to this idea at the current time. I still stand by my belief that there are more pressing issues for the city to spend its various resources on. However, trying to be open minded for those who care about this project, I believe the Jackson Street would be a good compromise.

if they knew these homes were and have been under assesed why didnt they say something before? if they did say something there taxes would go up. cannot have it both ways. I do feel bad for these people but the comparable homes in area may also be under assesed and something should be done. People complain if theyre over assesed. it would have worked out in their favor this time if they were.
I would be worried about reflooding and want to get out of the area.

To "luvujvl"
As the post from "chefd" just illustrated, parental involvement does extend to skateboarders. So, again, I would urge all parents of skaters to become involved in all aspects of your childs preferred sport.
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Do 14-15 year old basketball, football and soccer players whine and complain about "their Mommy hanging around?"
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Maybe, just maybe, strong parental influence and involvement may have something to do with other sports being at the forefront when it comes to public perception and funding.
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Just a thought.

I am a 30 year old skater with 4 and 7 year olds who will more than likely skateboard. I like the Palmer Park location. Roger and Fern have worked very hard on this project as they did for the Peace Park and they are getting the same negative feedback they did when the fundraising was going on for that. I also am in support of the Pet walking area as well. I do think both areas could co-exist. I think its funny since the whole Aquatic Center thing that the city has been looking for room at Palmer and now we are getting our spot taken away. The Comittee at one time just wanted to utilize the unused Tennis courts in the same area for the Skatepark (which is not just for skateboards but bikes, inline and scooters etc.) but for some reason the city didnt like the idea to use the already there concrete. Skateboarding is no longer just a fad and grows larger every year. The X Games steadily gain more viewers and riders and skateboard and BMX sales are steady. I have been to the parks in Delavan and Beloit and many other parks around the area and the kids respect something that is "holy" to them. Before I had a license I would have skated from anywhere to get my wheels on some real ramps and rails. Theese kids need some support and there is more than 5%. You may not see the kids as they have to go to other cities/areas do to the Skateboard Ban plus there is nothjing to ride here. Just remember kids are kids they all have groups of trouble makers. I am tired of other sports getting whatever they want because they "need" more space to play. I know that Dawson field ejects a lot of players of the year do to foul language and drinking. Every sport has its "Bad Eggs"...from dog fighters, drug users, fights, bad language, etc. I have friends whom I skate with that are Lawyers, Doctors, Teachers, Union Workers, Top COmpany Salesmen, etc. Please break down the wall that skaters are all a bunch of vandals and trouble makers.

If you had read my other post, you would realize that I thought the new location made more sense, because of the additional funding. My last post was in reply to someone who couldn't grasp the concept of why I feel the skate park isn't a priority regardless of location.

Unidentified - I did not realize that recommending a different site for the skate park was considered "wasteful spending". The site is already there! My understanding was that the city council MIGHT be able to get federal grant money to help out the people that are raising money for this venture. In fact, I praise the city council for investigating alternative funding for such projects and would hope in the future they would continue down that path regardless of the economic stability of the community (in other words in both good and bad times).

And by the way.... I know many parents who are involved with their 14 and 15 year old kids and their activities...are skaters different?
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Try that on for size.

By the time a child reaches 14 or 15 years old, he / she should be well schooled in being aware of potential molesters. It's not the identified ones in any given area, but the unknown ones that they should be taught to be most concerned about.
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And when I suggested that "perhaps this would be a good opportunity for parents to get involved in their children's activities rather than just "dropping them off." I still stand by that suggestion.
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I did not say that it meant that all parents should babysit their children of all ages at all times...only that too many parents leave parenting up to others by "dropping off" their kids where-ever. If the shoe fits......
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To "JohnDoe" - you suggest that instead of dropping kids off at a skate park, that I as a parent should spend more time with them and "be more involved" with their activities...........that's a nice idea if they're young. But do you really think that a 14-15 year old wants their Mommy hanging around? A skate park is not for 2 year olds. It is for the older kids whose Mommies are not going to sit on the bench and watch. A vast majority of kids who may use a skate park are old enough that they will be dropped off and stay there on their own. Logic.........try it on for size...

justsome1here: Again that cost is already built into the budget. So you are saying that the key to our economic future lies in the hands of the skate park? That if we just simply allow wasteful spending to continue we’ll spend our way out of this mess? Refer to this article,
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http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/lates...

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when trying to understand why I don’t think the skate park is a priority. I'm not saying Janesville should stop spending altogether, but at this point time, money, and energy needs to be allocated to more important issues.

Or, has this current council approved the Palmer Park location?

Did a previous council approve the Palmer Park location?

lakennedy,
The council has not approved any funding for a skate park.

I srongly oppose a skateboard park for the simple reason that I will have to go to the park to get a good laugh when one of these people kiss the pavement.

Yeah- keep the kids in a area free of sexual offenders.... send them to the PIPE skate park....nice and safe there...

*shakes head*

Unidentified - Just because the dog park is already there, doesn't mean the taxpayers are no longer paying for it (regardless of what you may think). The comments from people in this city remind of the story of the Hot Dog Vendor and the self-fulfilling prophecy.

Quite an incentive...
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"Manager Steve Sheiffer estimated that the city might come up with $100,000 through community development grant money."
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Also, the article mentions that there are plans for a "major riverfront park there".
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Just wondering...

“We thought we had Palmer Park,” Fern said, wondering how they can trust any councils now.

"Sheiffer said this council is not bound by a former council’s decision because that council did not authorize funding."
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So, did the previous council already authorize use of the Palmer Park location, or for the funding?

Don't forget that bikes and in-line skates can also be used on a properly designed skate park.

Also, isn't there some incentive to provide an alternative to skate boarding on private property?

Hopefully if this does get built, it will be open 24/7 so that 14-15 year olds will have something else to do at 4:16 a.m. instead of rummaging through other people's property.

MOCO,
You've illustrated that you can afford the tax increase in a number of your posts (specifically during the tunnel debate). That's great for you, but for you to assume that burden is something that the rest of the citizens can handle is ludicrous. It is quite obvious that you are not concerned about GM closing, as you're sure that it will not affect your finances. Again, that is wonderful for you, but unfortunatley there are citizens of Janesville who do not share your circumstances.
I think that the Streichs should be commended for the effort they've put into fundraising, but it is essential for them to understand that a skatepark, like the tunnel, is NOT a necessity for Janesville right now.
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If the skatepark ever does happen, it should be at the Jackson St. location. Palmer Park is a beautiful park, to destroy it with concrete slabs is asinine. Furthermore, I'd like to assert that the citizens of Janesville had better start desegregating this city, quick. It is quite obvious when driving through town where the power/money is. The south side is virtually abandoned. There are numerous blogs on this page describing how unsafe parents feel "dropping their kids off" down in "that neighborhood". Well, here's a wake-up call: there are creeps all over. If you're that concerned about the safety of your children, I recommend not "dropping them off" anywhere, and staying with them all the time. Or buying them a bubble.
Again, I'd like to repeat that the skatepark is simply not a priority right now, but if it is built, hopefully it will be on Jackson Street. The effects of building the skatepark on Jackson Street will be monumental to Janesville. Bringing in quality activities to that area will breath some much needed life into it. The stereotypical garbage spewed in many of the blogs below is simply false. There are wonderful people in that area (I was raised near there), and I think it's time that instead of investing in yet another recreational activity for the east side, the council start paying attention to the rest of Janesville.

MOC0428 I don’t think people are being narrow minded because they don’t like the idea of a skate park nor having their taxes raised, because the city spends too much. Some people can’t afford higher taxes or to move to other counties. Is it being narrow minded to forget about those less fortunate then yourself?
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justsome1here: The pet comparison is weak. The dog parks are already there. I would suggest that more than half of the city has a pet, most likely dogs or cats. I can’t calculate the numbers on kids that skate board in town, but I would gamble at less than 5% and that is probably too high. In addition, I can say with certainty that there are very few 30-80 year old skate boarders. Moreover, the dog park (on the east side) adds a natural wooded element to Palmer Park (with little to no maintenance). The one on south side is simply a mowed grassy area. Both look appealing or at least somewhat natural and can be used for other purposes like walking or cross country skiing. My point goes to the city spending more money at the current time. Once circumstances change, then maybe it would be more reasonable to look at these ideas. The facts are in the numbers of donations. If enough kids skate boarded in this town, then they would have raised enough money by now to build it. Apparently there either isn’t enough skate board parents donating or people don’t think it’s a good idea. It sounds like the city could get more grant money, which would help build the skate park, from the Jackson street location. This might help speed the process up for those who favor the skate park. Granted, I don't think the skate park is a good idea. However, I understand those who might want one. My point is geared more towards the timing and the location. Right now if the city is going to spend money, it better be needed.

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The person who suggested the south side of Janesville brings up a good point. That side of town seems to be forgotten on many occasions. Most of the kids I’ve seen skate boarding are in and around the south side of Janesville. There has to be some unused city owned land or land that could be donated for such a park.

I probably should have worded my post like justsome1here did as that is also my opinion.

Thank you for wording it better than I.

Jason: You are correct. I appologize for my rudeness. As I have an opinion so do you. I'm just frustrated with some of the things said on this blog. Sorry.

Does anyone find it upsetting about the houses that will be lost in the Mole-Sadler subdivision ? They say that they can't go back and change the assessments after the fact.My question is why the assessments were so low in the first place .Did the city forget to reassess the homes or do they really want them out of there ? This to me just doesn't sound right.

jvldude - Sorry for my last comment that was removed by the staff, but your comment was uncalled for. It seems that people complain when kids are hanging out doing nothing and then turn around and complain when an idea is presented for them to do something. The citizens of this city only want to pay taxes for something when it directly benefits them. Not all people in this city have pets, but according to your logic, they should have to pay for the upkeep of the dog park. The reverse is also true for those who do not have children. We, as taxpayers, need to be advocates for this city.

MOC0428, I think you misunderstand the basics of free speech and free elections. We, as citizens of this city, have an obligation to voice our opinions... yes, even if they are different from yours.

You may do well to shut up yourself if you don't like the idea of people enjoying their rights.

What a bunch of narrow minded citizens in this city! Raise our taxes and build the skate park and tunnel. I love both ideas. If you can't afford the taxes move to Green County and shut up.

pac1091: I