Good thing the Gazette advertised this as A location so when someone gets some money together he can call Halbach to kick in the rest and be A silent partner.... WOW I never knew that that property (if jumping thru the citys hoops) could open another Adult entertainment center on the same spot! WOW Thanks for the heads up and there are other locations we could go if we can JUMP THRU THE HOOPS!!!!!! How bout the old Shakeys? Its A perfect location and A perfect building, if it was run RIGHT! If it was run the same way Vegas Club was run the first 6 years with everything legal and no pay~offs then all I can see is alot of tax dollars for the county and state along with contributions to alot of community things! Just as Denny did for Darien back in the late 90s

If you can get that to rhyme, it might be a poem.

Though I have to admit "gstringman" and "gfanatics" are some sly barbs.

The magnanimity of hunger does not cancel out the fact that you showed up for dinner with crap on your shirt.

Recommend The Elements of Style by Strunk and White and The Little Brown Book.

Also, lots of reading, but stay away from the politcal and philosophical stuff: you're not ready for it.

whybesad, what the h--e--double-hockey-pucks are you talking about?!

Oh, never mind, you're back on point.

Great business opportunity for someone. With fuel prices the way they are people would rather stay close to home and see bare naked woman. I wouldn't be the type to open up an establishment like that but, someone could make a pretty good living at it.

eclipse, a previous comment by you reveals that you do not know what socialism and socialists are.

I seem to recall someone being kicked off this site for pretending to be site staff.

LMAO. Ok then.. Have a good night eclipse.

"We are free to pursue our ideas of liberty, but not at the expense of the liberty of others."
- Who is losing their civil liberties because of strippers?

Majority does not always rule. In today's world money talks.
Gfan, you sure love to bicker...

:) :)

I've seen enough "eclipses," Thanks.

You said Jeans, instead of genes, so I automatically thought...never mind..LMAO

Let's just leave the "Jeans" on shall we??

I didn't remove it.

Are you a product of the Janesville school system? I hope not. Even if you're a kid, you have real problems.

eclipse, your next to last post wasn't badly written; too bad it reeks of paranoia.

The one after that reveals that you have feelings and desires that are in conflict with your self-image.

nurse4u, maybe they could use it for a reading and writing comprehension center for the Janesville ignorami.

Relax everyone. I highly doubt that there will be another gentleman's club here in the vicinity of Janesville. No one wants to be in Halbach's shoes, that's a given. As for a club being out at the health care complex, that is too funny. I am sure the Sheriff's department would be very appreciative of that!!

Is the name of your alter-ego, Jeano, a play on the name Jean Paul Sartre?

Sartre once said: Hell is other people.

Sometimes we know why, don't we?

Did anyone ever catch the irony of Ozzie Nelson having a FRIENDLY neighbor named THORNY?

LOL

;-)

What the .....!!! Now there's two of them!!!

There is a direct correlation between a communities exploitation of women and womens ability to realise economic success. Given women in Rock County earn 64 cents to a 1.00 compared to men it just might be a better idea for the community leadership to change the agenda of Rock County "entertainment."

How come Mr. Drysdale never made goo-goo eyes at her?

Lets get a male strip club this time~ give the ladies a place to be for those bachelorette parties! Strip clubs are completely harmless as long as they are doing everything legal. Most of the time, these clubs are used for random "fun" nights out. Yes, they do have their "regulars", but doesn't every bar? Not everyone going to a strip club is looking for a prostitute. It's just a crazy, random night out for most of us. We already have a strip club for men, why not one for the ladies?

Well who's with that skinny woman who was Mr. Drysdale's secretary on the Beverly Hillbillies?

hannah, Ellen was with Ann Heche, but she left Ellen and married a man, then I think she divorced him also. Ellen is now with an actress named Portia something or other. Rosie is also with a blonde, they have a child or 2 'together". So cute, isn't it! arf

sewael..., you're still off point with your zoning talk.

Thanks for looking up "nonsequitur"; it's a good one, isn't it?

"The ordinance also restricts where such an establishment may be located. They are allowed only in areas zoned B4. But even within a B4 district, further restrictions apply.

The ordinance forbids an establishment featuring nudity or partial nudity within 1,000 feet of a residence, a church, other adult-oriented establishments, youth entertainment centers or any place with an alcohol license, Klimczyk said."

Go back to where someone said: "The problem of where a strip club/brothel should be located indicates that the great majority of people are repulsed by the act of prostitution."
I'm arguing that that is not the case. The problem of where a strip club is located is because of zoning. Zoning has to do with the size of the structure, amount of parking, landscaping to paved ratio-it's not just all about what people want or don't want around. That's it. I'm arguing a very specific point. Don't read into it. I'm not saying that the majority of people do or do not want the strip clubs around. I don't know the majority of people.
As far as non sequitur-I actually did look it up. I typed in nonsequitur and it corrected me. My bad.

The space is optional. And there can be no space or there can be a dash. But apparently, even though you looked it up, you didn't get it.

You're using the concept of zoning to justify the existence of strip clubs/brothels. This is a nonsequitur. The great majority of people don't want them anywhere. Zoning won't save you.

BTW-there's a space between non and sequitur. Thanks Google!!

"The problem of where a strip club/brothel should be located indicates that the great majority of people are repulsed by the act of prostitution."
I'm arguing that the 'problem' of where a strip club is located is due to zoning laws-just like any other business.
"What? Zoning law is the tool used to keep strip clubs out of your back yard, while still complying with federal law."
I'm not repeating, I'm cutting and pasting! ;)You guys are saying strip club placement is because people don't want it there. I'm saying it's because ALL businesses and buildings are zoned.
If you don't get me, you don't get me. Let's not be childish and resort to trying to be demeaning.

seweal... is either high or goofing around, or both.

sewael...., why don't you use your googling skills to look up NONSEQUITUR?!!!

Does anyone else understand what sewaelizabeth is arguing about? Repeating the same words over and over isn't doing it for me.

I'm arguing that the 'problem' of where a strip club is located is due to zoning laws-just like any other business.
(just like any other business)
Follow the thread, you'll get there.

what?

You may not want to live near a strip club. Many, many people wouldn't. But to say that's what zoning is about is silly. I'm saying strip clubs can only be in certain areas because of zoning. Many types of buildings or businesses can only be in certain areas because of zoning.
"People will tolerate being near other zones, but they will not tolerate being near zones that allow strip clubs/brothels." Read my previous post abot the tall building people didn't want to live next to. You can speak for yourself but can't speak for everyone-even if many agree with you.

uuuhhh...nobody said zoning is ONLY for strip clubs. what was your point? ...nevermind...forget I asked.

"In 1916, New York City adopted the first zoning regulations to apply city-wide as a reaction to construction of The Equitable Building (which still stands at 120 Broadway). The building towered over the neighboring residences, completely covering all available land area within the property boundary, blocking windows of neighboring buildings and diminishing the availability of sunshine for the people in the affected area."-Not a strip club or brothel.
Euclidean, performance based, incentive based, form-based: all these types of zoning are just for strip clubs?! I took the time to look up zoning-you could too!!

Zoning laws exist to accomodate what people will tolerate near their homes. People do not want strip clubs/brothels located anywhere near their homes. People will tolerate being near other zones, but they will not tolerate being near zones that allow strip clubs/brothels. This is the ultimate commentary on how people feel about strip clubs/brothels.

You can't plop down a building that's too tall in the middle of a zone that does not allow it. Industrial buildings are allowed only with a certain zone as well as agricultural businesses. But you're saying zoning has to do with only strip clubs or any other business you don't happen to agree with? You're wrong.

What? Zoning law is the tool used to keep strip clubs out of your back yard, while still complying with federal law.

"The problem of where a strip club/brothel should be located indicates that the great majority of people are repulsed by the act of prostitution."
I'm arguing that the 'problem' of where a strip club is located is due to zoning laws-just like any other business.

What's that have to do with the fact that the great majority of people don't want strip club/brothels to exist at all, which naturally means they don't want to live any where near one?

"Zoning may include regulation of the kinds of activities which will be acceptable on particular lots (such as open space, residential, agricultural, commercial or industrial), the densities at which those activities can be performed (from low-density housing such as single family homes to high-density such as high-rise apartment buildings), the height of buildings, the amount of space structures may occupy, the location of a building on the lot (setbacks), the proportions of the types of space on a lot (for example, how much landscaped space and how much paved space), and how much parking must be provided." Wikipedia

There are zoning laws for everything.

billnewbie, you're right. With freedom comes respondsibilty. Too many people think that freedom is just fun. The arrested developement crowd of "anything goes" can't handle reality.

The problem of where a strip club/brothel should be located indicates that the great majority of people are repulsed by the act of prostitution and everyone who participates in it.

Save for those out there who wallow in polymorphic perversity.

I agree-an establishment of that kind could open after you've lived there awhile. At the same time they can't open with 1000 feet of a residence. If that's too close for comfort-I don't know what to say. I don't know about zoning but I think it's a good thing to look at when buying a house.

You're right. I shouldn't move next to a strip club. I don't know why I didn't think of that myself. However, you don't know where I live. What if I bought my house in that neighborhood when that little building was a grocery store? What now? And what if I buy a house, and 10 years later a strip club opens up down the street? Should I sell my house? Seems to me the personal freedoms of the dancers/customers/business owners are the only ones that you're concerned with. If they are outside the city limits, nobody who doesn't want to be subjected to it will be.

Was it Rosie or Ellen who was involved with the skinny blond? I hope it wasn't Rosie!

Hey, krow, you're right on wanting to crucify the pedophile priests.

I like and agree with your last comment deltafox.
As far as bringing down property values-don't move in next to a strip club.

And the real funny thing is that because you spend so much time complaining about things on messageboards that are none of your business, that is why your husband is out getting a lap dance right now.

I love how religion and politics has placed overruled our "democracy" or at least what was once a "democracy". You trust your kids around pedophile priests, but walking past a building with blacked-out windows is too much. You people make me laugh.

gocubsgo- do you really think the dollar goes for their dental- they are prob getting free dental because theyre on welfare because they dont make enough and claim their tips. They prob use the dollar for nails, hair, boob jobs, expensive clothes. I have waited on them before and the cars come from the sugar daddies and they "dont have any money to contribute "to what sugar daddy wont pay for.

gocubsgo- Sorry I guess i didnt. there are pigs here that would make these comments you know!!!glad youre not one.

Oh, and one more thing...I don't have a long list of personal crusades. I was just voicing my opinion, like everybody else. But thanks for caring.

Hannah, obviously u didnt quite get my sarcasm. I feel for the family in need of dental and they are one of many families lacking medical insurance. Thats a whole other discussion. On another note, maybe the dollar bills the dancers earn is used for dental care. My "manly VISUAL needs" helps the dancers\entertainers\artists

Deltafox -
I don't think you can really compare the two, can you? Churches don't bring down property values. I agreed with you on the personal freedom argument. I won't, however, change my opinion on this. If the majority of the community doesn't want to look at it, I guess majority rules. I'm not saying they can't open that kind of business, no matter how distasteful and degrading I think that business is. I'm saying...do it where the majority of the community who are against it don't have to look at it. I wouldn't want one in my neighborhood. I think most people would agree they don't either. Am I "threatened by its mere existence"? No. Like I said, if women choose to lower themselves by selling their bodies to a bunch of suckers, then so be it. Do I want it in my neighborhood? No. Why does it matter to you that it's outside the city limits? Seems to me both sides are getting what they want. They can still have the freedom to earn a living the way they want, and we don't have to look at it. Looks like a win-win to me.

gocubsgo- maybe you should give your money to the people in need of dental care instead.Seems like money better spent than on your manly VISUAL needs.

Spunkmeyer said:"But the rest of us don't want to be subjected to it."
So the decisions of a few out weighs the desires of the many? What if I don't want to be subjected to your religion? Would that mean you don't have a right to build a church and worship? The easiest way for you not to "be subjected to it" would be not to go into that business and give them your money. I don't understand what other sort of exposure that you must have to that business that would impose so greatly on your life. The only other plausible explanation that you can give is that you are somehow threatened by its mere existence. If that is the case, your list of personal crusades must be very long.

gfan- not sure where they come from? I sorta skipped over the debate on this one.

I know rosie has been gay for a long time.
Wasnt Ellen digeneris her girlfriend for a long time? Iknow Ellen was girlfriend of blonde haired girl lately sorry name is gone for right now 7 days and 7 nites chic. they may be broken up too.

Ah freedom, the first arrow in the quiver of those who defend the repugnant.
Freedom is not absolute. We are free to pursue our ideas of liberty, but not at the expense of the liberty of others. Want to expose yourself in public? If freedom were absolute, you would be free to do so and some would. But we voluntarily restrict our freedom through the law, for obvious reasons. Similarly, we restrict the freedom to open strip joints. For some, the reasons are obscure or unfounded with devious motives attached to those who would so regulate, but for most (majority rule can be inconvenient) the reasons are clear. We don’t want people degraded whether customer or employee, and we do not want our neighborhoods exposed to these degrading influences. If some really want these houses of ill repute available to them, though it’s unfortunate that they cannot find something of a higher calling to pique their interest, then these establishments must conform to the law and they must not deviate from it or they will be shut down.
I find it entertaining that some still demonize the "moral majority" whenever the need to defend deviant behavior arises, but then anyone who advocates in favor of morality is usually accused by someone of trying to force morality on them as if exhortation were criminalization.

Ok. I get the personal freedom argument. Y'all are right. I realize my stance on this subject is clouded by my moral views. I don't have the right to tell someone else how to earn a living just because I don't agree with it. These clubs, for now, are still legal. So I'll have to deal with that. I'm a smoker. I didn't like being told that I couldn't enjoy a cigarette after a meal if I was in a public restaurant. But I understand why I can't. Do you all understand why people don't want this kind of establishment within the city limits? If people choose to make their living this way, fine. But the rest of us don't want to be subjected to it. I think that's really the bottom line, isn't it?

All this talk about strip clubs is making me have "impure and deviant thoughts". I think im going to have to go to Diamond Jim's tonight and support the dancers, or as some people on here call them "prostitutes". Im going to bring a whole role of dollar bills and make some donations in the names of some of the haters on here.

I am glad this club has been closed. However, I am not against a business of this type. When any business is unable to conduct itself in a manner that follows law, it should come into question. If after a period of time the illegal behavior continues, the business should be fined or ultimately shut down. That seems to be the case for what has happened with Screemin Meemees. Regardless of how badly certain people wanted to see this club shut down, it would have remained open had it been run according to law. It is the owner/management that is ultimately responsible for its demise.

OK, appologies, delta...., realistically, though, sooner or later, strip clubs are brothels. That's the problem.

gazettefan,
I am NOT TALKING about prostitution, the discussion is about strip clubs, and the right someone has to open and operate one! You are the one in need of focus my friend. I am not for prostitution.

At what point does morality and legality become one? Just because something is morally corrupt (in some people's opinions) doesn't make it illegal. Like I said, you'll get used to it if you don't take a stand and just look the other way.

Zoom -
I agree with you 100%. This isn't about banning this type of establishment, it's about restricting it. If it were up to me, places like this would be shut down. I don't see how women are empowered by this line of work. Or the customers for that matter. But unfortunately, we don't live in my version of Utopia. If only...right?

Funny thing about Footville: The people there have to come to Janesville to see a podiatrist!

eclipse, reality?! All along I thought it was Footville!

eclipse, nice one. A touch of the oblique. Got it.

hannah, where do these people come from?! Where?!

OK, eclipes, now you're beginning to lose me.

Ouch, eclipse, you slammed me with the heartbreak of PROJECTION. But remember, two can play at that game.

eclipes, nobody KNOWS thekid!!!

thekid, eclipse refuses to make an effort to understand one of my recent posts. I'm trying to help him but you just keep dragging him down.

RoadKing, nice ruse with the John Locke mention. The problem is: Your paraphrastic quote works against you at least as much as it works for you thereby canceling itself out.

Thanks for aspiring to my standards.

Rosie O'Donnell is a lesbian?! When did that happen?!

Not sure I grouped all those people together; but if I did, I'd like to remove lipstick lesbians from the mix.

eclipse, get your head out of thekid's stash. Quote me again, but this time include the first two words of my statement, which are: "this belief." Good luck.

And your amature psychology is kind of an improvement for you. Too bad you're just not good at it.

Gfan - Is your comment about Rosie putting lesbians in the same group as prostitutes and crackheads? As far as insults go it's the indirect ones that make me wish I was able to address subjects in a manner that meets your standards of intelleigence. "New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, because they are not already common" (paraphrased) - John Locke. In other words, you'll get used to it. By the way, I agree with you on lumping lesbians, crackheads and prostitutes in the same group. Throw in the smokers for good measure.

good post eclipse. gfan types circles around himself trying to make himself appear intelligent while never actually putting any substance in his posts.

which part of this is counter reasoning?? 'Your reading comprehension is on par with your ability to write clearly. It takes a real effort to figure out what you're trying to say'
.
i KNEW it would be ok since you said it. you are quite possibly the most ignorant/arrogant hypocrite ive never met, thankfully.
.
stop trying to figure out and re-write what people 'really meant' and start reading what they are really typing...ya might learn something.

Strip clubs aren't some kind of "art" or "expression" that deserve extraordinary protection. People don't want them in their back yards for many reasons, and the city has accommodated both the people and the club owners.

If the owners had been able to operate their business in a legal fashion, this wouldn't even be up for discussion.

thekid, it's definitly an indirect insult. But a deserving one. When you explain why someone's reasoning is bad with counter reasoning, it tends to come off as an insult. The thing to do, is to come back with additional counter-reasoning. Direct insults are over the line; use your wits.

Otherwise, thekid, re: me reading stuff you're not typing --well, that's just not the case: I'm merely explaining what you really mean.

direct insults are wrong, but indirect insults are ok?? gfan 'Your reading comprehension is on par with your ability to write clearly. It takes a real effort to figure out what you're trying to say' HYPOCRITE

thekid, that little twist of bragadocio at the end of that one paragraph is funny, props dawg.

And that goes for all you people who have to resort to direct insults when you can't effectively deal with opposition.

RoadKing, your leap from the issue at hand to a bunch of wild generalizations shows that your point of view has collapsed under the weight of the reasoning that opposes that point of view.

whydo...., you missed the time thekid admitted he was a Bears fan.

eclipse, the "against" pertains to both. There isn't any reason to read my sentence any other way. Your reading comprehension is on par with your ability to write clearly. It takes a real effort to figure out what you're trying to say. You project your own incoherency onto the statements of others.

I can tell you're not a regular reader. That's the source of your problem.

I don't want to watch strippers so no one can! What do you care if there is a strip joint really? The only thing I was subjected to when Screemin Meemies was in business was annoying commercials and a garish exterior the building. I don't like certain kinds of food so when I see a restaurant that serves it-I don't go there. I just walk on by. I'm not about to try and close it down or not allow others to enjoy it.

lowlife- it is our business WE live in this city and pay taxes. I say no strip club especially after what happpened in this one.
gazette fan -according to lowlife a brothel next to him would be nice.yuk

chunky pb for me.

What is prostituion?

OUCH!!!G-fan you cut me to the quick!I can only strive to uphold the moral values you so righteously put forth. I called the pope to nominate you for saint hood. Keep up the good fight! By the way, could you outlaw gluttony and rid the world of fatties? I don't like the way they look.

thekid, didn't you see that gazettefan further revealed its ignorance when it stated that it is a cubs fan??

:)

thekid, are you condemning the males who've given up the freedom to use the social skills and charm required to establish a relationship with a woman?

Exactly how did you folks take the leap from restricting nude dancing, which is all we can do, to banning it? You won't win the "freedom" argument, because nobodies freedoms are being taken away.

good post deltafox. its easy for people to give up freedoms....as long as theyre not theirs.

RoadKing, get in line behind Rosie O'Donnell and a bunch of crackheads.

delta....., this belief that being against prostituion and the legalization of prostitution is a step toward the establishment of the Fourth Reich is paranoia. Settle down and focus.

Maybe we should outlaw everything that we don't like even if it is legal. Can someone tell me where I can get my halo and become part of the moral majority?

gazettefan, you missed my point entirely...
You are willing to torch freedoms as long as they align with your personal belief system. What are you going to do when they DON'T align with your values and its YOUR freedoms they want to take away? Don't you see the fundamental error in your own thinking?

"he was just pointing out that some of the people here are on the wrong side of that issue."
Wrong side according to whom?

Zoom didn't say you couldn't state your point of view re: the strip club issue; he was just pointing out that some of the people here are on the wrong side of that issue.

Zoom wrote: "While I agree that we have lost some freedoms since 9/11, defending a strip club is the wrong fight."
dub190 wrote; "I just believe we are losing our freedoms, and not all of them are glamorous."
My issue is the freedoms issue. Defending the First Amendment protects us ALL. It protects all speech for everyone. Yes, some will say that some speech, like the hate messages that white supremacists groups spout should be automatic and disallowed. Some say that about strip clubs, porn, etc. But what if someday, that bar of judgment is leveled against your speech? What would you do if assembling for your purposes (church, Republican/Democratic Conventions, Boy Scouts) is deemed by the majority as unwanted? We all have to fight to protect our rights, even if we find them distasteful, as long as those pursuits are lawful. I disagree with Zoom that defending a strip club is the wrong fight.
When will it be the right fight?
What will we do when its our fight?

Ok,GoCubsGo, here's the problem. You did think about what I told you to think about but you were repulsed by your own thought processes. When you thought about it you confirmed what the anti-prostitution people are saying here. Your own thought processes frightened you. You buried all this or you didn't bury all this. Either way, you denied here how you thought and felt, instead you buried it all under some ridiculous statements and questions.

The thought is almost as revolting as Favre in a Bears uniform.

Your're right, Spunkmeyer, I'm switching to the White Sox!!!

Some people get it, some people don't.

I dont know what its like having a relative or friend, who is or wants to be a stripper. But who am I or anybody, for that matter, to judge them. I just dont understand how a woman stripping is demeaning to all women in general. If a woman is confident, comfortable with her body and enjoys her chosen profession, then "males who are losers" should be able to support her with one dollar bills.

It was funny how u lumped "strip club dancers and prostitutes" together. So does that mean if u become one u automatically become the other?

GoCubsGo, if you really need such an explanation, I'd be wasting my time trying to give it. The whole thing kind of cancels itself out.

Well, consider this: You can answer your own question by thinking of the reasons you wouldn't want female family members, your female relatives, and your female friends to be strip club dancers and prostitutes.

FYI: I'm a Cub fan too and it is obscene.

gazettefan, I dont see how your comment, about my username, adds to the discussion. Instead, maybe u could explain to me how strip clubs "degrades woman and encourages males who are losers to continue to be losers."

A hundred years without a world championship! Now that's obscene!

If a person wants to go to a strip club to see some naked women, so be it. If thats the worst offense that the person does in their life, I can live with that.

I find it crazy how people on here say "visiting these types of establishments, leads to rape, child molestation and crime."

Hey, Diamond Jim's is right down Highway 51 if someone really has to go to one of these places. The Vegas Club on Highway 14 is not that far away either. Keep it out of Janesvlle. When Screamin Meemies was making news, people in Madison were laughing at us. Not the kind of publicity we really need. With all the layoffs, will anyone have any money to spend at these places anyway? Just wondering.

Oh...and chunky for me. People who eat creamy peanut butter are not right ;)

While I agree that we have lost some freedoms since 9/11, defending a strip club is the wrong fight.

Make it creamy for me!

SarahB - you're funny! It is kinda entertaining to read people just going at each other with fangs out, sorry. We can start a new fight about something else if you like ... do you like creamy peanut butter or chunky? I think chunky peanut butter is a choking hazard and should be outlawed immediately -- or, alternatively, only sold in strip clubs!

fldpan, and all your so called political issues somehow leaves you in support of something that degrades woman and encourages males who are losers to continue to be losers.

Whatever it is that compels you to support the degradation of women lies elsewhere. It lies within your character. Politicize all you want. You're not fooling anyone.

This was more fun to read when you two were fighting.

dub190 - Cool, we're hogging the post. Ha! I know what you're saying about helping is not rewarding and definitely not popular with a lot of people. But I'm trying to practice that if I feel really strongly about something, I want to say it. I am hoping that it will get easier in person when there's a lot more risk involved. Not because I want to cause trouble or anything or make anyone feel bad. But because sometimes the hard things need to be said. Think of all the hard core criminals that coasted through their life getting weirder and weirder, and no one said anything because they didn't want to come off as judgmental or rude. It's hard to tell people when you think they're making a mistake. I think that's why so many people get on posts like this and get downright mean! They've bottled it up in their real life and they let loose on here.

Very true.

I could care less if they have no strip clubs anywhere. I just believe we are losing our freedoms, and not all of them are glamorous.

dub190, I honestly don't know what the majority of people want really. But I hope you're right. You sound to me like you are more of the libertarian slant, and I can appreciate that (my husband is kinda that way, too -- more than me at least). Social issues are always hard. I would never, ever want to be a politician, yikes!! All I can do is say my preferences and let things fall where they may. In the end, we all have to roll with it as best we can.

Jac, I agree with your 7:39 post. But at the same time you can't force bad people to become good people. Trying to help is great, but sometimes not very rewarding to yourself. Everyone is very selfish these days. You can even be selfish when it comes to helping people. I still say many of these women enjoy the job and the attention it gives them.
=
=
Remember, it is a form of the oldest profession in the world...

fldpan, I agree with some of the positions you gave in your last post (guns, evolution, oil, morphine). I guess when it comes down to it, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I'll live with it if strip clubs are in Janesville. I have up until now. There are lots of laws on things I think are ridiculous, and there are lots of things allowed that I think are ridiculous. That's got to be true for everyone on here. Not everyone is going to agree on everything, so in some cases it's just majority wins. If the majority of people in Janesville want strip clubs, then that's the way it's going to be. Then I will adapt as best to protect my family. It's the way it's always been and it will always be that way.

Ha ha, you're right, your eyes. Your opinion is appreciated. I would think the term deviant behavior is just that, an opinion. If a popular vote in the district was cast, the clubs would all probably be closed. I'd be willing to bet almost everyone voting no has no idea what truly goes on behind THE CLOSED DOORS of the club. That's just what they are, closed doors, admission price, and blacked out windows.
Amsterdam has the red light district, and drugs and sex everywhere. Their crime level per ca pita is far nicer looking than ours.
Vancouver Canada, or Nevada, is there sex crime rate higher than ours, or any other state? I highly doubt it, I'll look t up.

dub190, there is a little bit of difference in asking you to feed and pay for my child versus asking you to treat her with respect. Do you never tell someone when you think they are doing something harmful? I'm not saying to be rude to someone, but because you care for another human being, isn't it appropriate sometimes to tell them, what you're doing is not good or I think you deserve better than this.

turkeyman, I wouldn't either if I lived in rural areas. You are right. I don't know what else to suggest though. I am definitely not saying put it next to your house so it's not next to mine. Definitely not, and I am sorry if that's what you thought I was saying. If we absolutely are forced, by federal law, to have one of these things in our city, I want it to be as far away from where all people are. It's a terrible thing to have to decide.

Jacmarien you said put it some where else that's NIBY (not in my backyard) The people in the rural areas don't want them any more than you do.

dub190, I read every word you typed. It didn't blow through my ears (eyes, really), I just disagree with it. I see more of a correlation between strip clubs and rapists/pedophiles then I do between closing/restricting strip clubs and the government forcibly taking everyone's DNA. What? I understand fearing a slippery slope, but I will not let that keep me from wanting to restrict deviant behavior. Talk to anyone in the mental health care field and ask them what the dangers of pornography are. It's pretty common knowledge. Even though it feels good or is fun (to the customer at least), it's still bad for the community.

No I wouldn't want my daughter working there. That would never happen. But why is it my job to worry about your daughter? Do I also need to feed her, and you?
If you were ever in one of these places, I'm not saying I have or haven't, the women are treated pretty well. They do what THEY want. There is no one there making them do anything. You look at these poor strippers as victims. Let them decide for themselves for God sakes. How do you know they don't like doing it anyway?

What is the government stopping you people from doing?

Ha right on Fldpan!
Jacmarien, what I said must have just blown right through both ears. You don't see any of the situations I presented actually happening?
If you don't want to be exposed to it, then don't be. That is your choice in a free country. Giving freedoms up is a slippery slope. Agreed?

There is so much more in Janesville that we need to be worried about. Take all the time wasted on these ridiculous prostitution stings, and bust some of the many heroin dealers in town. That crap is coming from somewhere. Even though I believe, if some junky wants to throw their life away, that is their choice, not ours.
The detectives don't have the expertise it takes to bust violent criminals, and hard drug dealers? All they can catch is the "prostitutes" and pot peddlers? I think not. There is another reason.

turkeyman, no it makes me a realist. To remind you, the article says that "Federal law and court decisions don’t allow a city to ban stripping or nude dancing." Ideally, they'd be closed down. Given the current federal laws, there is no other choice but to be as strict as possible about location. I can see where you'd think I was being hypocritical. Thank you for pointing that out so I had a chance to explain my opinion.

Thanks, gazettefan. I realize people have the freedom to degrade themselves in anyway they want, and people do. From everything I've seen and heard, the women who do this kind of work were most times abused growing up, and they have low self-esteem and are used to being treated poorly. They don't see it as bad because they don't know any different. That is probably coupled with a need for money, and there you go. Recipe for disaster. Would anyone "for" this kind of business in town also be "for" your daughters working there? If the answer is no, then why do would you want anything less for your neighbor's daughter? Take a cold shower and meet a nice girl at church or the grocery store or something.

Jacmarien,
Think about what you just wrote " Have your strip club, but have it out of town on a secluded road, where no one would be there otherwise." The people in the Townships don't want them either. Saying that just makes you a NIBY.

more single woman outta work.

Spunkmeyer, Jacmarien, and Zoom, thanks for the voices of sanity on a blog filled with posts written by people who hate and fear women.

A little over the top, dub190. If you want to go and see naked ladies dance, you are free to do so. I have a right, however, to decide whether I want to be exposed to it. You don't get to do whatever you want, whenever you want. That's called anarchy. It's why we have laws. It is to keep boundaries between people so we can have the most freedom possible. I don't want to be exposed to it. Have your strip club, but have it out of town on a secluded road, where no one would be there otherwise. There's always internet porn if you can't afford the gas. You'd think there was a naked lady shortage or something. Like you say, there are plenty of DVDs and miniskirts to help get you through until gas prices come down.

Very well put Lowlyfe. People always know what's better for everyone else. My parents raised me to respect everyone, especially my elders and women. If I wanted to go see women dance naked, that should be my right.
While we're cleanin up the town, let's outlaw porn, any movies with sex scenes, tight clothes, short skirts, push-up bra's, swimming suits, gymnastics, and just generally being a sexy woman. We could even force women to eat two meals a day at McDonald's so men will RESPECT them more because they all have big muffin tops!
Let's force girls and women to take birth control, let's give everybody drug tests weekly, take everyone's DNA, and take money from the wealthy and give it to the lazy!
One child per 40,000 dollars salary, unless you're an immigrant or alien. In that case, you can do whatever you want and we'll just deport you so you can waltz right back over our unprotected border.
We don't need our guns, let the criminals have those! Force everyone to wear helmets when riding a bicycle, because you know everyone is too stupid to use their hands to protect their head! Hell, if we keep sheltering and saving the stupid people they will soon outnumber us, and maybe then we can live off of them!
We can even start aborting more babies, while we kill even fewer on death row. Maybe we should just write a whole new constitution and bill of rights, what did they know back then anyway? WE are the smart ones!
Then we can pay our kids' teachers even less and force them to teach even more crazy theories turned "facts" every day. Maybe we can even start a junior head start so they can further raise our kids for us.

Or better yet, how about bring back the supermarket, or how about a day care, or an indoor playground. I've really been wishing there was more than just McDonalds when it's raining or too hot or winter. Something that would really serve the community.

A strip club brings no redeeming qualities to the city of Janesville. It lowers the image of the city, and increases crime. That more than negates any jobs or taxes a strip club may provide. People can go somewhere else if they want that type of entertainment.

While strip clubs can't be banned, the city can make the ordinance even more strict. I would encourage them to do so. I hope the business stays empty for the next twelve months and loses it's chance at becoming another strip club.

Thanks, Spunkmeyer ... you too. And I think it's hurtful to men, too. Men who get into this habit end up not knowing how to relate to real women, and people in general really. I know a couple people who have really gone to a dark place between internet porn and strip clubs and even the bar scene with picking up different people. They are not healthy, well-adjusted people. It's sad, it is like a drug, because there's so much pleasure in it, but it is short-lived and addictive and destructive. Maybe, like some argue with drugs, it's just recreational, but I think we all know a lot of messed up people (who indulge their urges in this way) who are evidence to the contrary.

Well said Jacmarien.

janesvillecomments - you are assuming that going to a club to view naked women solves a problem (indulges their urge)? I think what it does is start an unhealthy habit that for some can lead to violence. It is not a good thing to publically "assist" people in relieving their unhealthy urges. Businesses are public. If some guy wants to go out and pick someone up and "see them naked" or God knows what else, they are certainly entitled to do that, and it is nobody's business ... unless they advertise and put up signs or in other ways make "their" business known to everyone around them that really doesn't want to know. That's the difference. Everyone knows what's there, everyone knows what's going on inside, and I'm sorry, but I just don't want to know, and I don't want to have to explain to my kids what those places are. If you want to indulge your urges, do it privately. If it's truly private, that means nobody knows about it.

There's a market for child pornography too. Should we regulate and control that as well? Gimme a break, janesvillecomments. "They provide a safety valve for men to indulge in their urge to view naked women without hurting anyone." It doesn't hurt the men is what you mean. Women were not put on this planet to indulge men. It's demeaning and degrading to women to be used as playthings for sad, pathetic losers who can't get a woman without paying for one.

You can't fight human nature. Men like to look at naked women. You can debate how much of that is due to heredity and how much is due to environment, but there is a reason for the huge number of sites on the Internet dedicated to female pornography. There is a reason for so many magazines, books and videos with nude women. There is a reason why "The Bare Chest" in Beloit, "The "Sugar Shack" in Delavan, and "Diamond Jim's" south of Janesville are profitable businesses and why "Screamin' MeeMee's" was doing business in Janesville. There is an undeniable market for them.
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It is in the best interest of local governments to allow, but regulate these businesses. They provide a safety valve for men to indulge in their urge to view naked women without hurting anyone. If properly regulated, nobody is forcing the women to work there, which is frequently not the case with pimps and prostitutes on the street.
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It is also human nature to try to regulate other people's human nature. Some people aren't happy unless they are trying to totally prohibit an aspect of someone else's behavior. This didn't work with drinking alcohol, and it certainly doesn't work with sexual behavior. Most people will accept some regulation for the good of society, i.e. licenses for bars and liquor stores, minimum age limits, business hours, qualifications for bartenders. A similar, reasonable set of regulations and restrictions for businesses of nudity will also be accepted by most people.
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I have seen several cycles of "do-good" whiners complain about certain bars in Janesville over the years. A couple of bars tend to attract the problem drinkers and get more police calls than most of the other bars so the local "League of Teetotalers" insist the places lose their licenses. Duh! It's a lot more convenient for the police to KNOW where trouble is likely to start. They will learn the layout of the premises and can work with the staff to make the job of policing these problem people easier, rather than shutting the bar down and scattering the troublemakers all over the city.
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Both some staff and some customers of "Screemin' MeeMee's" were breaking laws, so it was correct for the police to shut it down. I would argue that some of the laws they broke should be changed so that behavior is no longer illegal in such a business establishment. Regulating and controlling some aspects of human behavior is usually possible. Prohibiting it doesn't work - notably with drugs (including alcohol), gambling and sex.
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I would also recommend to those people who don't like strip clubs that the best thing they could do about them is to shut up and not give them free advertising with their complaining, but as I've already said, you can't fight human nature.

lowlyfe, the next brothel will be going next to your house.

Oh! Not again! These articles cause so much controversy! Oh well, we all have our freedom of speech to cover up under!

You can take that "what do you care what someone else is doing" statement pretty far if you want to. What do you care if someone wants to use or sell drugs? It's their body isn't it? Of course, everyone knows that doing drugs is harmful, not only physically but socially because people can become obsessed with it and it ruins their life. The same is true with pornography. I guess some just don't want to see it that way. People cheat on their spouse, people have unwanted pregnancies, babies are brought into this world (or not, unfortunately) in vile situations where people were just "having fun." Then these kids grow up and learn it from their parents. It's not innocent fun. People care because it ruins lives. People care because when a big enough percentage of the population feels that it's okay to "use" other people as a sex toy for their own gratification, it affects everybody. Don't you realize that's exactly what happens with rape? When children are sexually abused? These criminals, in the beginning, learned that it's okay to use other people. This is totally different than when you're in a committed, loving, intimiate relationship. Sex is not wrong when it's between equals who love and care for each other.

i agree with lowlyfe. if there wasn't a "need "for this kind of place why was it not closed in the first year? because it was making money, it was open for almost seven years so that has got to show someone that there must be a need or want for a place like this. I have never been inside of that place. I don't have the need for it but I don't get down on anyone if they want to go in there. This is a free country......or it use to be......... good posts in here on both sides of the issue. everyone STAY SAFE!!!

lowlyfe, you make some very good points. who was screemin meemees hurting? NOONE! I went in there once and thought it was a DUMP. but if someone wants to go in there that is up to them. this is a free country. And for those worried about their kids walking past there I agree with you on that to. Also how many kids are actually walking pat there anyways? its not like its a large residential area. Theres alot of people in this city that are worried so much about what everyone else does it is just ridiculous. I personally think we should be more worried about the drug dealers, robbers, and pretend gangbangers. But our government thinks that getting rid of a nude bar is more inportant than catching actual criminals. Or are the drug dealers lining the pockets of our law enforcement. wouldnt surprise me a bit. I find it hard to believer that our police force is so incompetent that they cant catch any of these drug dealers. But it sure seem the case.

lowlyfe...the name fits you. Just to open an establishment to "slap the face" of the city council is childish. Last I knew, they were voted in by the people of the city. There are just too many bars already anyway. I also think strip clubs do not belong in the city limits. It's just slime that goes to those establishments anyways so make them spend the extra money in gas and drive out of town to look at that crap. Sex is not looked at as the plague, it's the "immoral" way sex is portrayed that is wrong!!

Don't get me wrong, I love my country but some of the people in it are ruining it for me. Though Screaming MeeMee's has been around for almost 7 years, I've never been in there. Janesville has pretty much had it out for this place since the onset when I really did not see anything wrong with it at all. People are so worried about what everyone else is doing instead of minding their own business. Not a day goes by where people, who should be being parents, are being politically involved, begging government to create a law against something they themselves should be teaching their children. And there is irony everywhere, at Wal-mart for example, you can't buy a CD with one of the seven dirty words in it, but you can turn around and directly across the aisle from the CD's are DVD's full of sex, drugs, violence and the seven dirty words plus some. Hmmm, which is the greater evil there? When Screaming MeeMee's went in a few parents expressed concerns over there children walking by there, yet there was little concern over their children walking by the 4 bars that are in the area. Not to mention the fact that Screaming MeeMee's wasn't open during the day, only at night. So if your children were walking around at 10-11pm, the fault is on you not on the legally running establishment. Recently the city council voted down expanding the number of liquor licences available in the city of Janesville. I personally think it's appalling that in a so called "free-market" the city government is placing a restriction on the market. Currently there are 18 liquor licenses available, the vote was to increase it to 1 license for every 2500 people instead of 3500. My opinion is to let the market dictate how many bars there are in Janesville, bars are the only businesses that are regulated like this as far as I know. People are concerned about "bar clustering" or existing business being shut down because of too much competition. Well, grocery stores aren't regulated like that and Woodmans, Logli, Sentry, Wal-mart, and Pick 'n Save are all doing fine as far as I know.

In short, what kind of establishment you can open in a commercially zoned lot, should be up to the person who is spending their money on opening the business. Be it a bar, restaurant, liquor store, and yes even nude club. The market will dictate whether these businesses succeed or fail. Government should keep their noses out of it.

Also, people talk about the disrespect is shows towards women to support a strip club of any form. You as mothers and fathers need to show your sons and daughters to respect women. There is nothing wrong with sex though a lot of people in this country view it as the worst thing since the bubonic plague. I hope someone does reopen Screaming MeeMee's if I had the money I would. It's just the kind of slap in the face the city council needs.