What a pathetic response. My racism? Get a new crystal ball and then get a new mind lightweight.

You would really approve of my neighbors, Billy. There are lots of retired doctors, lawyers and corp execs.. Pretty much all right wingers like yourself. A few former John Birchers. Folks who you would really approve of. Reading into your comments, I assume you were probably thinking my neighbors were Mexican Americans and other Hispanics. Your racism is quite transparent my man. Janesville is a good spot for you. Someday you will be King.

One of the things momof5 said:
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Or, scrap the 56 million dollar JAIL totally, pitch some ove-sized event type sleeping tents and Rock County can have their own version of Sheriff Joe in Phoenix.
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Hey momof5, I'm not sure if you know that Arizona winters are not like Wisconsin winters. We get below zero, Maricopa County AZ doesn't.

Sigh.

Finally...... some fiscal responsibility.

We could send our prisoners out to Nevada with you. They would likely be an upgrade from the neighbors you’re used to.

Only if I get to be warden.

Build the skate park and rebuild the jail in Billy's yard. I am sure he would employ unique methods of dealing with both prisoners and skaters.

So, if we aren't getting the jail expansion, then there's going to be less poice/sheriff needs to find the criminals.

Hmmm, just a thought, maybe that money would be well spent on a mental health program here in the county.

Just a thought of logic-- combining the news in the Gazette.

Why, can't you find it?

Truth is a defense to libel and since you admitted using the word and cannot possibly know if each person you referred to fits the definition of scofflaw, you have mislabled people. The $30,000 is proportional to a average person's resources. By the way, since you seem to be good at looking things up, try looking up the definition of circular reasoning.

I called scofflaws scofflaws. They do happen to be people but most people are not scofflaws. Scofflaws by definition are scofflaws therefore not a violation of the rules. I also said that we can’t execute them so yet again not a violation of the rules. Since you have libeled me, send me an email with your address so that I can come pick up my $30,000.
In your story, if the $30,000 were a more realistic $300 then it actually only takes 6 days at $50 a day to "work it off", not an unreasonable time at all. And while I too am concerned for the welfare of families whose breadwinner is incarcerated, how unfortunate that the offender didn't consider that himself when he chose to break the law. It seems to me that we already have help available for the indigent should the need arise. We also have the Huber Law. It also seems to me that judges have a lot of discretion when leveling fines as they may take family circumstances into consideration as well. If we make accommodation for these scofflaws (there’s that word again) and they still make no effort to abide by court orders….. well now I was just about to repeat myself and perhaps accrue another fine.
scoff•law (sk f lô , skôf -)
n.
One who habitually violates the law or fails to answer court summonses.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

billnewbie: Let me explain how the justice system works for people with little money. I noted in your comments you called people scofflaws, in addition to suggesting to execute them. These comments are in violation of the rules set forth in the comment section, referrencing, be nice, and do not threaten anyone. We didn't tell you that each violation of these rules would result in an automatic fine of $10,000 per occurrance; however, ignorance of this fact is no defense to your violation of the rules. You have 60 days to pay this $30,000 fine, in total. If you want to enter a payment plan you must appear in person, at the Gazette main office, open 8 to 4:30 only, within 24 hours of this message. Too bad if you are working during those hours. If you do not appear within 24 hours you lose the option to enter a payment plan forever. If you have not paid the entire fine in 60 days, we will issue a warrent for your arrest. You may not remove this warrent unless you pay the entire $30,000. When you haven't paid the warrent and are arrested on the unpaid fine, you will reside in the Rock County Jail until you have sat out for the fine at $50 per day, or 600 days. Oh, I almost forgot, and people will write nasty things about you on the Gazette message board.

Clearly, this is a fictional account, however the $30,000 amount is proportional to the average fine imposed upon individuals who have limited or no income. Frankly, faced with the choice of eating, paying rent, or feeding their children decent people don't pay the fines by the due date, and jail sentences are not the only solution. Other counties have enforcement agents, who call or write people with delinquent fines. These agents can allow them to set up community service, and set up payment plans at any time, not just in the first few days, arrange for partial payments with proof of special circumstances, or make the fine a civil injunction, allowing the Court to collect by wage garnishment.

Tallman:
You have access to the web, get the numbers.
But even if we spend twice as much on corrections as we do on education, so what. Justice is a legitimate expense for government.
How do we coerce co-operation from the criminals to pay their fines and obey court orders if we don't have any jail space. After we sing “Kum By Yah” with no results do we send out an enforcement squad to beat them up? No, the Supreme Court would find that unconstitutional. Maybe we could all fart in their general direction. No, then we would have to pay royalties to Monty Python and that would defeat the purpose of saving money.
Build more jail space and put scofflaws in it. As much as it costs, it’s cheaper than higher crime rates. It’s hard to put a dollar value on drunken driving fatalities and the psychological effect of robberies committed by non-violent drug users, to say nothing of all those stolen library books.
Momof5:
(The following is strictly a fictitious account. The author (me) intends no resemblance to any real person living or dead)
That item in the library you referred to was checked out and not returned. The thief refused to pay his fine and has now been assigned to Workenders until he returns the item. He has yet to show up and the Sheriff has no resources to track him down with as he is not considered a threat (unless you need a certain library book).

Does anyone remember the full page ads Ken Hendricks took out a few years back in protest to the new jail. He outlined a very specific alternative plan using resources, buildings, and of course, money, we already had.
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Maybe someone could search for it at the library and send the micro-film to Spoden.

Has anyone actually looked at this as a moneymaking venture?
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That was the case back in 1987 when the present jail opened. We had plenty of room to take in boarders..at a very lucrative compensation.
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Perhaps we should build it now, with that in mind.
Let it pay for itself.
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Build it and they will come.

Momof5: As far as AODA treatment goes, it is fairly common that those very reluctant to attend treatment do have a change of heart and lifestyle once they become involved in treatment. If they are able to get clean and stay clean for a few weeks or months, they often start to feel better about themselves and continue on the road to recovery.

The state and county bugets are not all we spend on criminal justice in wisconsin. And the jail is not all we spend. You have to add all county clerks of courts, child support units, vicitm witness offices, and then there is the federal buget. The feds have two district US courts here in wisconsin, the eastern US Marshall in Madison and the western in Milwaukee. We have federal probation and parole plus what they spend on jail space rental and halfway house at caravila. Then one has to count all the local municipal and city police departments. City Attorneys, and the small municipal police agencies have their own attorneys hired to represent them in county court cases. On top of all that there are municipal courts in cities and small towns. My point is you can't go to one website and even begin to get the accurate figures on money spent on crimminal justice. Get all of those figures and I believe one would find that we spend as much on criminal justice in the entire system than we do education. Even though one could argue that the US Mashal is federal money it still comes from Wisconsin tax payers to some degree.

I have to agree with Billie's numbers. At the state level we spend about $4 on primary education for every $1 on corrections, and that totals to billions of dollars. I wish the spending ratio for primary education to prisons was 8 to 1 or better yet, 16 to 1.
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I checked the county budget numbers and it spent about $28 million on public safety in 2007 out of a budget of $167 million. I have to believe a big chunk of that change went to running the jail. When you add up all the local tax dollars for primary education in the county, It must greatly exceed the amount we spend on the jail.
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That being said, I fully support what Spoden is doing. There is no reason we should be running a debtors prison in this county. Keep it up, find ways to hold people accountable, and make them do their time even if it is community service. I am with Dub on this one - NO NEW JAIL.
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Newbie, you don't think that all the things Dub listed add up to more than 14 billion? You seem to like math...
Good posts Dub and Tallman. My vote would be: NO Jail Addition.

What you believe is all very well but I provided some hard facts, where are yours?

Tallman, you are right on. I will add that the construction of a jail addition will line the pockets of many, taking all that money out of taxpayers hands. NO JAIL ADDITION!
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Newbie, I do believe we do spend more on corrections, than education. You have to be kidding saying you don't. What about all the salaries of all the judges, lawyers, corrections officers, counselors, probation and parole officers, police, secretaries, cooks, janitors, maintenance, energy bills, phone bills, internet costs, laundry, food, TECHNOLOGY, uniforms, cars, trucks, boats, atv's, planes, helo's, snowmobiles, waverunners, animals, lawnmowers, fancy new jails and courthouses, satellites, juror fees, and benefits for all employees.
COME ON! We should all be jumping on this moneymaking bandwagon. But once they're all in jail and the rest can't get jobs, who's gonna pay their taxes then? US! The innocent ones.
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Also, "offenders" as they like to call them, do not just face a bracelet and treatment. They lose a lot of money, which goes to the DOCC. Many of them have to submit DNA samples, which I believe will keep them from committing quite a few different crimes. They lose their right to own a gun, enlist in the military, and even vote. They lose their privacy to their parole/probation officer. Don't forget their record, which I'm sure, with the internet, makes it hard to get a job. I do not feel sorry for these people, but that is the real situation.
"billnewbie, seems to be bunching all "jail inmates" into the same category. Something Sherriff Spooden is very good at not doing, and why his programs are effective. You have to focus on incarcerating only those people you are truly frightened of, and not just those you are mad at." - Beautifully put Justmy.
Every little crime, even non violent ones, are quickly all becoming felonies. Why? So they can take away our rights to own firearms, in a round a bout way.

billnewbie: thanks for the link. I do know, however, that if one chose to send their child to the SDJ and did not meet the deadline for open enrollment (because the do not live in the district), the parent would be responsible for $6,500 for a school year's worth of tuition (give or take a few pennies).
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Sorry for getting off topic.

The ranking I mentioned ranks the order from the least amount spent as being #1 to the most amount spent being #422.

According to the state dept. of public instruction (DPI) the educational cost per pupil for Janesville was $9,335 ranking the school district at #167 for school year 2006-2007. We are now 2 school years later with a large building program in progress.
http://www2.dpi.state.wi.us/sfsdw/Std_Rp...

I would point out that the $10,000 per pupil cost is for every student in Wisconsin which since the student population of Janesville is about 1/6 of the total population of the city, I estimate the total number of students in the state at over 900,000. That means that we spend over $9,000,000,000 on K-12th grades alone. That $9 Billion. Add in the UW system budgeted for 2007-2008 at $4,469,427,100 (almost $4.5 billion) for a total of about $13.5 billion not including the technical school system or money spent privately by families who choose to educate their children outside of the public schools.
The state has budgeted $1,223,662,800 or $1.223 billion for the dept. of corrections for the same fiscal year as mentioned above which includes federal funds. The dept. of justice’s budget for that period is $90,943,900 or almost $91 million or a total of $1.324 billion. All state budget figures quoted above are from this linked source. http://www.legis.state.wi.us/lfb/2007-09...
These figures suggest that we spend as much as 10 times more on education than on corrections. Perhaps some of these other assumptions some make are as unfounded as this one.

billnewbie: I hope you were using the $10,000/student figure figuratively. Because, I know for a fact, that the tuition to attend the SDJ is right around $6,500. If the state average really is 10k, I am VERY thankful then that my children are no longer potentially attending Janesville schools. And, I mean that with NO disrespect towards the educators.
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And, while my political stances are primarily democratic in nature, I do not believe that implementing and devising more social programs are the key. Those with problems are the last to see it; if ever. Mandating more AODA or community service or inpatient rehab or other tax dollar funded programming is about as productive in "curing" the problem as it is to water your yard when it's raining out.

Can someone tell me the real difference between a drunk and a person who does illegal drugs.. besides the fact that they are illegal.
Are they both not in need of help to kick a bad habit how many chances do they get before a druggie goes to jail and a drunk driver goes go to jail.. Is it better to have a mom on drugs or drunk all the time and she can legally take you to the bar with her....ok just let go with the flow here and see where this gets us ok

The entire justice system is paid for by working taxpayers, local, state and federal. You bet it's entire system is higher than we spend on education by a long shot. Even placed in prison offenders cannot be forced to take the treatment assessed or provided. To think it's proper expenditure to place library fine violators in jail in plain ignorant of justice for all. Yes, most wealthy are either not prosecuted, nor convicted because they have the financial resourses to drag it out or get it dropped because the DA does not want to deplete his budget by trial. Public Defender attorney's want only to plea bargain and get it over with. We must all remember "all but by the grace of god goeth I". If anyone of us think we are beyond getting charged at some point and paying our price your saddly mistaken. Many a people who said they would never get in trouble like those in jail have found themselves there.
billnewbie, I think your just poorly educated or experienced in the field by some of your comments(not all). Go to the jail and volunteer to test the bracelet system, then huber, then prison and see if you have the same views. I think you might be suprised.

billnewbie, seems to be bunching all "jail inmates" into the same category. Something Sherriff Spooden is very good at not doing, and why his programs are effective. You have to focus on incarcerating only those people you are truly frightened of, and not just those you are mad at.
First mathmatics: comparing the Rock County Budget total budget with the school budget is like comparing apples to oranges. The school budget is self-contained. All the funding from the state or other agencies is funneled through the school budget, so the cost per pupil is fairly accurate. Now the comparison between education and corrections, cannot be done by comparing with the Rock County Budget. To get the cost of corrections, or more accurately criminal prosecutions, you have to include ALL of the following: the portion of the Rock County budget, including the cost of the jail; the corrections officers employed by the county to run the jail; the district attorney's office budget consisting of both county and state funds; the county child support and corporation counsel; the city attorney (to write those library fine warrents); the cost of the Department of Corrections probation and parole, paid with state money; the cost of the prison resources used by each inmate sent to prison from Rock County; the cost of the Department of Justice attorney's who handle the appeal of Rock County convictions; the proportional cost of the State Crime Lab; the cost of the criminal judges and thier staff; and a proportional allocation of the courthouse costs; the cost of defense attorneys who need to be appointed for poor individuals; and the local police force, and/or sherriff resouces from each municiality and the county in general. So yes, criminal prosecution takes significantly more resources than education. By the way, if you want something to be proud, or ashamed, of the United States incarcerates a larger percentage of it's population than any other country in the world, including third world contries.

So after you pay for all of these costs, exactly how much money do you really want to spend to teach that single parent college student to pay her fine on time? These are the people Spooden has working the weekender program. It allows the poor to work off the fine, and save the money to feed their families or pay the rent. Working all day for fifty dollars credit against your fine isn't exactly a picnic.

So you're saying then that since rich people can afford good lawyers and political contributions that we should free all offenders for the sake of class equality?
If the average spent per student for education in the state is over $10,000 per pupil and the city of Janesville alone has over 10,000 students meaning that the school budget is more than $100,000,000 compared with the budget for Rock County's total operations at around $118,000,000 for 2006, only a fraction of which is spent on corrections, are you sure of your contention that we spend more on corrections than we do on education?
When we cracked down on early parole, wouldn’t the result of that enlarge the prison population?
When we filled the prisons didn’t the crime rate drop?
If we treat these criminals rather than imprison them, how do we compel them to go to treatment since they must co-operate unlike while in prison where they are a captive audience?
If many criminals wanted to sit in jail wouldn’t many of them refuse to be released before trial filling the jails even more? How do we stop them from re-offending until we grant them their wish to sit in jail? Will you volunteer to be their next victim?
If it’s easier to get drugs in prison than out, wouldn’t the addicted deliberately re-offend so that they can get back to the “high life”?
If the interest of the state is justice, and not just saving money which never seems to be their interest on almost any other subject, and since we can’t execute criminals, does just knowing where the criminals are by way of electronic bracelet satisfy that justice? If justice is not the aim of the state, then why do we have courts of law?
If a violator refuses to pay his library fine, what do you propose to do that will compel that “bad boy” to pay it while encouraging others to obey the law as well if jail is not the answer? Do you think we should surround that “bad boy”, join hands and sing “Kum By Yah” so he’ll see the error of his ways, pay up and “sin no more”?

The bracelet system costs the offender as much as it does to be on huber which allows the offender out 12 hours a day six days a week anyway. Why crowd the jail and hire more staff and all the expenses that go with that larger facility? Why do you think Sheriff Spoden was attempting to get legislation that would mandate offenders to go out on the bracelet system? Because many of those offenders would rather sit in jail than go out on the system anyway. Jails and prisons are absolutely not the answer because if you send all the law violators to jail or prison I guarantee you will create more offenders by the time they get out. Many parolees will tell you it's easier to get drugs in prison than it is on the outside. We have far more dangerous individuals on probation and parole who are free to wonder as they please than we do incarcerated. If we built the new jail in the 80's which was big enough to hold all the criminals then where did the new ones come from? I thought we had all those bad guys in jail!!! Build it and they will come, because our legislators will create new laws to fill it. Like library fines. Ya, lets put those bad boys in jail, that will teach them!!!!

Drugs are not coming into this country or being distributed by the nichol and dime bag sellers. It's being brought into this country and distributed by the multi-million dollar businesses and wealthy that are NEVER under serveilance or investigated by drug enforcement. These super wealthy have way to much political influence and power all the way to the top and are taboo to law enforcement. Our jails and prisons are full of the little guy violators that can't afford good attorneys. Corrections is a multi-trillion dollar business in this country and they do not want to shut it down as the economic devastation would be to great on the country. We spend as much money on corrections as we do on education so what does that tell you? There is no way the big politicians and I mean all the way to the Whitehouse, that want this entity to end. If so why do we not close or cut military bases around the world, place those troops on the boarders, ship yards, airports etc, to investigate the incoming of illegal drugs and guns. Just contact your legilators and see which one wants to get involved in a real drug and gun import crackdown now that would be protecting America's interests. You will get no takers as their campaign money comes from these very same wealthy and they know where that money came from believe me. If you get a taker please let me know.

I say that the sheriff is absolutely on the right track! Keep it up! Sticking non-violent criminals in jail is a big waste of taxpayer money. I don't agree with everything "tallman" writes in his comment, but I think "billnewbie" might be able to learn something from him.

Of all the things that government does, dealing with crime and punishment is a primary function.
Rock County has gang problems, drunken driving problems and drug use problems with the subsequent criminal activity that it spawns. The county has problems with people refusing to support their children, domestic violence problems, vandalism and even chronic traffic law violators. It has problems with many more such “petty” crimes of a non-violent nature.
Are we to buy electronic bracelets for all of these law breakers so they can sit at home watching T.V. and eating Twinkies while paying their debt to society? Is that what we are going to make them pay from now on? Are we to believe that after serving hard time at home playing video games and talking on the phone, these scofflaws will have learned their lesson and never violate the law again? Will their friends and acquaintances observe the depravation they suffer as a result of their crimes and be influenced to stay on the “straight and narrow” themselves?
We build jails and send law breakers there both as object lessons (crime doesn’t pay) and to suspend the criminal careers of the inmates at least for the time they are held in custody for the protection of the public and its property.
Drug treatment is fine, provided the drug user wants to be helped and will actually show up for treatment, both of which incarceration supplies motivation for at least to some degree.

I say hire Spoden as the new city manager. He seems to have a grip on what is financially responsible, necessary and realistic for the citizens.
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Or, scrap the 56 million dollar JAIL totally, pitch some ove-sized event type sleeping tents and Rock County can have their own version of Sheriff Joe in Phoenix.
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It's jail folks. Not the Holiday Inn.

Spunkmeyer, the County was looking at a huge jail facility that would hold 1,000 plus inmates. As much time as they have studied the issue, my guess that is an accurate cost. I give Spoden and the County credit for new jail diversion programs. To their credit, it is thinking outside of the box - a $56 million box.

56 million?? wow. were the beds and toilets going to be made of solid gold?

I forgot to add that placing these individuals on probation supervision is another false sense of security and accomplishment. It is a literal waste of tax payer money. Check out how much supervision those placed on it get. Just try to get ahold of most, not all agents see if they contact you back as they supposedly work 7:45am to 4:30pm. Many offenders haven't met with their agent in weeks and months, never had a home visit, nor sent to treatment. Yet we're paying salaries to the tune of $45,000.00 and up plus benefits per agent per year. Just ask family members of, or the offenders if I am not correct.

We definately do not need a new jail and I have reiterated this time and again. These drug offenses are all non violent and should be treated not incarcerated. IF we build it they will come and we will make new laws to target the poor, mentally ill, and racially depressed. These are what our jails and prisons are already full of in order to keep this economic entity alive and well. Our legislators love the economic growth of jails and prisons in order to continue to strip more dollars from the taxpayers by use of the fear factor. Start more treatment and alternative programs Sheriff Spoden your on the correct path so keep it up.