Something to think about!!

If for just 1 day everyone in the USA would not buy a Chinese made item, that country would scream! And if we did that for 1 week: lookout, all &^&^^&%^would break loose. Walmart would not have any customers!!!!
I have found that you can go on Ebay or any auction site on line and type in made in the USA and find many many items there!

Side note-
Swing N slide is also shutting its doors..

Also about walmart-everytime i buy things from there, they break or rip right away..so its not really saving money, because then I have to repurchase the item AGAIN!

momof5
Thanks for the reference to the flag pin story. A great read! I see ole Ross is 77 so just a wee little bit older than McCain. But if you or your kids or grandkids ever need a chart for current events, the website looks like a great place to view one!! Hope y'all had a great 4th. We here out in the country could view 4 cities at once doing their fireworks right from my deck! I knew there was a reason to move 30 miles out in the country!!

The problem is that there are no perfect vehicle brands, all will have defects and problems at times, and I'm sure all of us could find data to back up our claims. The truth is that if as consumers we buy a vehicle that gives us thousands of hassle free miles, we should feel like we've won the lottery. If we have multi vehicles that have been problem free, we have been truly lucky. I drive a 2003 grand prix, its been a fantastic car...perfect? no, but very reliable. On the other hand, My wifes 2003 Olds Silhouette has had more then its share of aches and pains, nothing major, but many irritating things such as power side doors that frequently dont work, tailight bulbs that constantly blow out, ect. As a G.M. employee it irks Me, because I never bite the hand that feeds Me, but it gets old sometimes. But I and the majority continue to do our best to build quality vehicles, even with managements continued job loading and harassment, its our jobs, and We DO care! So maybe along the way we will have repeat customers, and god willing a few converts, and maybe win a few back.

Interesting comments on brand quality folks. The research doen not exactly back you up on this however. See the attached current J. D. Power report:
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/qua...

Note how many brands got an overall quality rating of 3 out of 5.
And, yes I feel like I won the lottery

gmretired: LOL. Perot has a flag pin on his lapel. Made me think of this article:
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www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/jul/01/don...

mymaro: that was my experience with my Kia as well.

mark707, you should play the lottery. because you must be the luckiest person on earth. I know 3 people that have owned a KIA and they have nothing but bad things to say. Always breaking, drive like they have no suspension. and unfortunately a girl ran a stop sign and totaled out my grand prix and her insurance company gave me a rental from enterprise and it was a KIA. man that was the worst car ive ever driven. terribly uncomfortable, rattled over every bump, broke down on side of highway 11, and the radio even stunk. Id rather push my Chevys than own one of those rattle traps. and oh yeah my rental only had 8000 miles.

rustytrombone: You may want to, just for "sh**ts and giggles", take your wife's Tahoe to another dealer other than Fagan. While things do always change, at one point, Fagan had a horrible reputation for warranty work (especially if it was purchased with GMS/GMO). The trend in the past had always been--"Sir, we are very sorry that your warranty is now expired. But, have no fear because viola!, we have suddenly and miraculously found your problem. That will be $2,000 please, do not pass go and go directly to the cashier's office."
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Try Symdon. Or Bud Weiser. They're less filling and taste great!
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Happy 4th everyone!

07 janesville tahoe? sure? check the vin code.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VIN/...
I certainly hope it was not made in janesville, and if it was what was the problem?

My wife bought a brand new 07' Janesville Tahoe last year and yesterday she got it back from Fagan for the FIFTH TIME with warranty work!! I bought a 07' new Nissan Frontier last year (for less than I could get a Colorado even WITH the employee discount) made in Smyrna, TN by Americam workers. It is the BEST vehicle I have ever owned!! Tjncj, you definitely know what you are talking about!! Are you a certfitied beancounter!!??

Zoom: re: bad design/quality. You are right on the money. I remember years back when the word on the street was not to buy a Dodge vehicle; especially a truck. The trannies seemed to ALWAYS go out or give you grief.

gmretired: my husband is a fan of Perot. What is ol' Ross up to these days?
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Much to my chagrin, my husband doesn't vote. But, he said if Ross ran again, he'd vote for him.

mark707: I had a Kia. The quality was terrible. Granted, that was during Kia's early years. My understanding is that, like almost everything in life, Kia has evolved and gotten much better with time.
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I have owned imports (Infiniti, Mitsubishi, Jaguar) and domestics (Hummer, Yukon, Montana, Grand Am, Expedition). I have never had as high of quality as I do in my Denali. My Pontiac Montana wasn't bad in quality either.
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Different strokes for different folks.

Just a little note on Perot. He has a website about money and spending etc. A good site. Try it, you will like it. I like the name of the site. Of course it has to do with charts!!

http://perotcharts.com/

Hey, remember a lot of years back when a short little man named Ross Perot brought up the words "Nafta Shafta"? Well our voters in this country were too dumb to vote for him. (I did). And I sure wish he had won. He said run your country like your own checkbook, dont write a rubber check and balance your budget. Oh well, the current administration has no idea how to handle money and neither does the auto industry. I still have my "Ross Perot for President" T shirt. Maybe it will be worth something some day! Happy 4th of July to All!

Thanks ctr1,
I'm not too worried about resale value as it has 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, it's paid for, and I'm keeping it for a long time.

I agree mark, known issues get ignored in the name of profit. We scream about quality issues all the time, management talks out both sides of their mouths. I wont bitch at you for buying a KIA, you certainly have your reasons. I hope you have continued luck with it, and hope the resale value is good.

zoom, I agree with you on your comments that quality can be a design issue. Example: GM never changed the ball joint design for
S-10 Blazers/Jimmys even though they failed at 20-25,000 or so miles...they kept the same design from the eighties through at least 2002.

But quality problems can also be an assembly line issue. Example: My last three (3!!!) Blazers had windshield leaks because the windshields were installed wrong.

I had many, many problems with these vehicles and tried to be a loyal GM buyer. I just could not justify it any more.

FYI, I've had my Kia Sorento for 3 1/2 years and have driven it 52,000 miles with one (1!!!) visit to the dealer...and that was for the 30,000 service. No warranty issues.

Ctr1, You're absolutely correct about the problems with cars being due to outsourced parts of inferior quality, not the fault of the American auto workers.
However, poor overall quality is the American auto industries fault, because it's their decision to outsource with inferior parts. This decision has sacrificed the future profits that should have been earned by purchases from returning customers.
I am very sorry to see GM leave the area, and hope every employee is able to find good employment

I always get a kick when I hear GM and "profit" used in the same sentence. Considering that the generally accepted economic definition for profit is something along the lines of: "the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc." the two terms can't seriously be used in the same sentence, considering that GM's balance sheet is completely in the RED (as in zero/negative surplus).
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http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE...
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NEGATIVE 23.97% profit margin last year. That's what you call a business on the fast track to bankruptcy.

Quality is not just about how it's assembled, but how it's designed in the first place. If a transmission gives out just after the warranty expires, you'll think twice about buying that brand again.

It will take an equal amount of time for the Big 2.8 to wipe out the quality stigma as it did to form it in the first place. Let's hope that they last that long.

Buying a Foreign car is each persons choice, but the "I've had american built cars in the past, and their junk" story just doesnt hold water anymore, I do understand that sometimes theres issues that cant be avoided, and thats a shame, but more then likely the problem is due to outsourced parts (other countrys) or suppliers issues, which are out of the united auto workers hands. Do a quality check, Myself and all other line workers I know take our jobs very seriously, and care about what goes out the door. The quality check systems that are in place in american auto plants are high tech, torque monitoring, station checks ect. so give it another look, research on the web, I think You'd be suprised. And also, wait till you have to replace a part on Your Foreign car, You'll be shocked, price, Availibiltiy. Many Foreign auto companys only produce replacement parts for 4 to 5 years, then where do You go? The salvage yard, to find another bad part?

profits??;) legal up there huh??;) the way some of these anti-potters talk your whole society should be crumbling. how come not everyone is being killed by stoned drivers?? why do you have colleges, let alone children to fill em?? parents couldnt possibly function or be good parents if pots legal. hmmmm, legal pot, legal alcohol, and still a functioning society. i never thought of such a thing....;) lol

thekid3477:

Yes GM is an American company, and the profits from the Oshawa truck plant went to the American owners of GM. But having trucks built by Canadians will be a moot point soon.

My point is, is that the CAW guys I talked to did not diss American auto workers, and I said nothing but good things about Janesville workers. However, I may not be so kind in the future.

Oh, by the way, if you want to live somewhere where you can smoke your pot legally, come live in Canada.

momof5...Korean vehicles are made in South Korea, where many of our military folks shed blood to keep the Korean population from being taken over by Communist China. We supported Korea then, and it is no shame to continue to support them now. I am proud of our country, proud of our military, and I drive a Kia. By the way, my previous five vehicles were manufactured by GM, and the quality was terrible.

gm is not a canadian company. i have no ties to the gm plant here in jville. i dont want them to close a single plant, canada or not, but an american company closing plants in america while still building cars in mexico or canada or whereever, doesnt seem completely fair....

the kid 3477: "shut down the plant in canada, not janesville, absolutely. "

News flash for you:
http://www.financialpost.com/most_popula...

The GM truck plant in Oshawa, Ontario is also being closed. This will affect other companies, like Lear in Ajax, Ontario.

I talked with a couple of CAW people this past weekend, and while they will be hurting every bit as much as the Janesville plant, they KNOW there is a plant in Janesville and are deeply sympathetic with the UAW workers at the GM plant. I did not hear one comment about wishing they would shut down Janesville's plant and keep Oshawa's plant open, but I see the reverse is not applicable in Janesville.

I have not said one word against the workers and the plant closing in Janesville, but I can now see why people would have negative views about the GM workers in Janesville.

I make every effort to buy American products and do not shop at Walmart. However, for me it is an issue of quality. I have owed American cars in the past and they constantly were needing repairs. I now buy foreign. They are cheaper and more reliable. If American cars become more affortable and reliable, I will consider buying one.

Is there any difference to...
I shopped at chinamart and I lost my job...
or...
I lost my job and now have to shop at chinamart?

The real issue here is that companies are no longer associated with a country. Any company traded publically is an international entity because its stock can and IS owned by investors from all over the world. The only people to whom the company management has a responsibility is their shareholders. That's the nature of the publically-traded company. They will do what is best for the value of their shareholders, and if that means moving a production line to another location because labor is cheaper, that is what they will do. Moving a production line from Michigan to Alabama is the same as moving a production line from Michigan to Mexico. Boundaries don't matter. Stockholder value is what matters.

good post zoom. i worry about the economy, but i worry about MY economy first. just like its a global economy there is no domestic/import any more. its all gray. and if you think we shouldnt buy honda/toyota cuz the profits go back overseas, 2 things, a)theyre taking those profits and building more plants, cars, employing more peeps in our economy. and 2)as ive said b4, at least they have profits to send home....

Oh, I meant to share another revelation. While looking for an economy car I discovered that the Chevrolet Aveo is really a Korean made Daewoo with a Chevy emblem on the grill. So the short story is that GM is selling us ALL out overseas. The UAW workforce, jobbers, vendors, and ALL of America, sold to the lowest bidder, Daewoo-Korea. Come on big 3, step up to the plate, be Americans.

I recently went to (2) Chevrolet dealerships and asked for (3) New 1979 Chevette diesel coupes, (62 mpg hwy) they didn't have any :( . Settled for (1) 2008 Cobalt, 32 hwy, 90% USA, made in Ohio. Oh, and regarding buying USA..........keep shopping at China-Mart and the only jobs left in the US will be for box-boys and greeters at China-Mart.

OK - Buy American - Throw out your Sony TVs , Nikon cameras, and Chinese built toys, clothing, shoes. What a farce. Oh Yeah, stop drinking coffee.

ZOOM If the sticker on the door dosen't have a U.S. plant name on it,won't buy it,i always look before i buy. Just the way i roll.

woodsman,
If all you buy are Big 2.8 (no longer 3) vehicles, there is a good chance it will be made in Mexico or Canada.

Someone else said it better than me:
"The economy most effected by my individual car purchase is my family’s economy. The car purchase that I make every 5 years is not going to save or destroy any of the major car companies (if I bought a car from a small manufacturer, like Tesla, it may be a different story) or it’s suppliers, and it’s certainly not going to push the US economy in any direction. It could put me in the poor house, though, if I make a bad choice and end up with a lemon. The idea that we, individually, influence the economy is laughable and shouldn’t be considered in the equation."

and...

"If the vehicle is assembled in the US with mostly domestic parts then isn’t the economy better off? It doesn’t matter if the profit ends up in Japan, Germany or Korea. What should matter is that an American was paid to assemble that car or part and thus has money to spend here in the US."


While the Big 2.8's vehicle quality has caught up with the transplants, the fact is that many years of poor quality by the Big 2.8 opened the doors to the foreign brands.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/forbes-...

GM stock down another 15% today. Now at $10 a share. The lowest it has been in the companies history. Nearly $20 BILLION of market capitalization lost in the past year. No doubt the company insiders are cashing in huge with short term put options; as the company approaches near junk status. How long before you hear serious bankruptcy talk, government bail outs, take over bids, ext?

tjncj: It's people like you to blaime for jobs leaveing our shores.I will to the day i die,buy nothing but one of the big three's vehicles,i support my country untill the end. If they die before me,i'll ride my harley into the sunset.

I would rather buy a Honda or Toyota built in the US where the profit margin is 10% and 90% of the cost including wages was spent in the US than a $17 cooler imported entirely(including lead)from China. Look at your clothes and everything else at Walmart that has 0% American content and tell me that which is worse for our economy, the consumables or the auto? GM's shortsighted profit grab was the problem, not the UAW's.

If you really want to help the economy, quit shopping at those big stores (Wal-Mart, etc.). Try helping out the local guy. I can tell you that you get much better service and the local guy will most likely order you an item if it's not in stock. And, yes, the price is sometimes higher at a smaller, local merchant, but it is worth the satisfaction I feel after having completed my purchase. I am a single woman without a lot of money, but I do keep my commitment to do what I think is right. And, no, I am not criticizing those who shop the big box stores. I am only describing my own satisfaction.

lol, thats what i said, see how i cant focus without my meds;)

meant 'not build in other countries' :)

momof5 my guess as to why the gmc sales slumped more is because you can buy chevys cheaper, an people are pinchin pennies when they can. nurse i completely agree that our companys shouldnt build in other countries. shut down the plant in canada, not janesville, absolutely. as for the money going to the 'mothership', i wont disagree, but at least those companies have profits to send home;) and i just read on the net that hondas sales were actually up last month, the only auto manufacturer to do so, http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/01/news/com...
so it appears that they may be actually helping our economy in a time when its needed the most....

I think our government should ban products that have lead in them..ESPECIALLY a cooler that carries food! Everyone knows about the dangers of lead paint, yet we use everyday products with lead in them. Go figure.

one more thing: And, I'm not trying to start an all out war and name calling session but... does it bother anyone else to see people whom you KNOW to have a strong military background, either actively or in the past, drive non-American branded (I would say made, but I won't) cars? I mean, how American would it really to be have General Colin Powell or General Norman Schwarzkopf drive themselves up in a Korean brand car?
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And, before you can say it's no different than televisions or computers or other electronics. It is. An AMERICAN developed and invented the first automobile. And, as a society, we have let "them" beat us at our own game.

nurse4u: Good point on the health risk. I was at Wal-Mart yesterday looking for a cooler. I was just about to put it in my cart until I saw a yellow warning triangle on it...it read "This product contains lead. Small trace amounts may come in contact with food. THe State of California feels this causes birth defects and other reproductive harm."
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The cooler stayed at the store.
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An informed consumer (and COUNTRY) is a wise one!

momof5-
How true..

thekid-
That's great about honda & all that, but can you seriousely tell me our economy hasn't been affected by our companies producing their products in other countries for lesser wages?
AND Just like Wal-mart has made millions by buying products form China (half of which is either poor quality or dangerous to our health and our pets health).
Am I wrong? How many plants have been shut down because of relocations to Mexico?
Do I need to remind everyone what happenned in Youngstown Ohio when about 3/4 of their plants closed? Can we say devastation?

thekid: while a large percentage may be built in the US, the money is not kept here. It is sent to the mothership....

thekid: It makes sense, but you were simplifying it more than needed. I wasn't asking the difference between Chevy vs. GMC (I know, I have a Yukon Denali). I was asking what some may speculate to be the cause for the 8 and 12% difference in sales between the two makes. (Tahoe sales slumped 8% less than Yukons and Suburbans weren't 12% less affected than their XL counterparts.) Thanks for the clarification though :) I love my Denali, but it makes little sense to me why the keep the two brands around.
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Zoom: The Trailblazer is also being phased out in the next generation, if I am not mistaken. I can't remember what it is called, but I remember thinking "Wow! That's sharp!"

I agree, I as a local 95 member have been talking to fellow workers for the last few years about preparing for the future of our plant, keeping feelers out there for new ventures, we were told, we have a person that does that. which we did, one with thirty plus years seniority, and a never ending cup of coffee. this person has recently taken advantage of the enhanced retirement package. it just irks me to no end that this came to this situation, thats what happens when both sides have their heads in the sand.

and fo what its worth nurse, i believe about 70-80% of hondas/toyotas are built in OUR country by OUR people. they just happen to be non-union people....

the gap from yukon/xl to tahoe/suburban is pretty much standard equipment. you can add options to make a chevy even with a gmc, but you cant take options off the gmc to make it equivelant to cheaper chevys. the denali isnt quite 10-15 more, altho its def more, but you get stuff on the denali that you cant get on the chevy. make sense??

Don't you think if we would never had NAFTO we wouldn't have this problem now? Keep OUR jobs in OUR country and support OUR people!!

The local union is not to blame. The UAW signed an agreement that would have allowed new workers to be hired at half the wages and benefits. Additionally, the UAW took over the pension plan. With all the recent retirements, GM would have been able to hire a substantial number of workers at the new wage across the country. General Motors management made the decision to have multiple plants building large SUV’s at a time when gas prices were steadily increasing. Moreover, GM was slow to transition into a heaver car based product lineup. However, now that General Motors has decided to idle the Janesville plant, it is important that the UAW and state officials work hard to bring new work to Janesville. Recent quality surveys have put General Motors in a competitive position against rival Toyota. It is time people give American made automobiles (and no not foreign based companies making products in the U.S. who ship the profits overseas) and other products a second look. It would be regrettable to see America’s oldest automobile manufacturer go bankrupt. Although the local jobs may or may not be saved, there are tens of thousands of people who receive retirement benefits from GM. As a result, it is important that those people don’t have to face the uncertainty of a bankrupted General Motors.

The first link should have been:
http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008...

My guess is probably price. GM sells more Chevy's than GMC's anyway.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/g...

Eventually it won't matter. GMC will probably be starved to death of new product. The next generation GMC Acadia (and Saturn Outlook) are being canceled. A new GMC truck version of the Lambda platform (think Honda Ridgeline) has also been cancelled.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/g...

Zoom: Any idea on the gap between Yukon/XLs and Tahoe/Suburbans?
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I'm wondering if it is styling? But, alas, the GMC equivalent, especially the Denali, is 10-15k more than its Chevy counterpart.

SNARLY; I CAN'T BELEAVE WE both aggree on something,i guess their is still hope in this world!!!

no it's not a shock very poor planning on both the UAW/GM.

Is this a shock to anyone?

Zoom your right. GM is to blame; but the UAW should have stepped up and tried to do something about the situation. The money that employees pay is for the UAW to represent them. That also means to look out for the future. The union has been around for a long time now. They know what is going on and how it works. I feel that the union let its members down. It shows that the UAW is only looking out for their financial gains. Thats to bad.

BUY AMERICAN!

SuperDave ...It should of said 44 per hour...It's a typo !!

GM should be blamed for not being able to react to economic conditions, not the Union.

The pres.was to busy sucking up to Doyle,and all the others in Madison to see beyond his own gains,i'm sure he'll do just fine,while he left his bro. & sisters out in the cold. Yes brad you were right their with him,asleep at the wheel,UAW for you guys meant: U are (asleep at the)WHEEL!!

More bad news. According to a Reuters report out today, "GM will need to raise as much as $15 billion in cash to shore up liquidity and bankruptcy is "not impossible" if the U.S. auto market continues to slump, Merrill Lynch said on Wednesday."

"44 trucks per year"! That's less than one vehicle per week! Hardly seems worth it...

The local union should have seen this coming about two years ago. That's when they should have started talking to GM about using the plant for producing the hybrid or electric car. Failure to look into the future doomed the plant.