....NOT

yeah, dini. it sounds great, meet you there.

To those who've challenged some of my previous posts, and to everyone, really:

I received an email from this group this morning, and I would suggest this as a good start for any of us:

"YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED TO

Facing Racism in a Diverse Nation

Movie Night
Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7 p.m. to 10 P.M.
First Christian Church
Highland Ave."

This is sponsored by Janesville's Diversity Action Team, or DAT. I am not a member of this group, but I have attended some of their very positive and useful programs.

DAT offers concrete and -- again -- positive ways to deal with the "-isms" around us.

To the 2 most recent posts: I'm not privy to what goes on in that office. What kinds of problems are there?

I agree. Without approving of the comments Carpenter is alleged to have made, why is the other rude, intolerant, and downright nasty behavior of O'Leary's own staff allowed to continue. Perhaps they should be barred from thier desks.

this article made me laugh, considering some of the stuff ive seen go on at the court house. some of those ada's at that court should be disbarred for some of the things theyve said and nasty comments theyve made. many complaints against them have been made. was anything done? nope, because theyre the good ol boys. i guess steve carpenter is not a good ol boy. but, mr. carpenter if you did make a racial slur, that was very wrong of you.

There's no ... well, you probably mean "altar," and this isn't about hurt feelings. It's about committing to treating others decently. What objection do you have to that?
I wouldn't worry much about there being any shortage of hurt feelings in the world. More than enough of that to go around without people perpetrating it on purpose.
Do you honestly have objections to the attempt to start and keep going a dialogue about something of which we're all guilty to one degree or another, and discussing ways to end it -- at least in ourselves?

Well......?

Well chop, are you referring to me, or to others? Because I do agree with you. So, what are we going to do about it?

Hey dini79, I posted about similar concerns (stereotyping) just earlier under the story about the rollover accident/no seatbelts. What kind of proposal were you thinking of making?

Most of you are in mud-slinging mode. Fat people, smokers, Muslims, gays, people with freckles, whatever -- NO GROUP should have to put up with disrimination because they belong to a certain group, whether it's social or medical or economic or religious or intelligence-related or whatever.

Several posts back I asked if anyone commenting here wanted to actually do something about these attitudes.

Most of you just kept hurling garbage at each other.

Nice way to perpetuate what we're all complaining about.

Who wants to work to end discrimination? Any takers? The only caveat is, we all have to examine our own behaviors along these lines. Including ME. This takes dialogue and a fair amount of discipline. Who's up for it?

I LOVE STEVE CARPENTER!!!!!!!! HOLLA!!!!!

Discriminated26, at least he doesn't have to try to defend his brother for breaking in Applebee's and having a shotgun in his possession at the time.

Dub, Chop can't respond to my questions of him being there when Steve said these things or tell me where he went to lawschool at. He's just apparently one of those who likes to talk big as an attempted ego boost and really has no idea what the words that are coming out of his mouth even mean. Don't waste your time. Anyone with a half a lick of sense can see right thru this pitiful excuse of a media scandal when it has been laid out on the table for them as simply as it has here. You're talking to a brick wall.

Excuse me. I meant Chop hasn't answered my questions yet.

Seems like Choop is upset. Do you have anything to add, or ask? Or are you just trying to get a rise out of me?
I never claimed to be overly knowledgeable about constitutional law, but if you would like to debate me, you will not be disappointed.

Chub... You still haven't anwered my questions. Just as I thought. and fldpan...my sentiments exactly. anyone w half a lick of common sense can walk into quotes and see that this is probably not a racist owned establishment and could also check the history between Carpenter and O'Leary and know that there's something so much bigger here. Steve's the bigot? Funny, O'Leary never had a word to say to Steve until his wife opened that ethically diverse bar downtown!

Also, who in here has practiced law? Who has a degree?

so true dub. Not one person has yet to answer my question on whether or not they were there when Steve "said" these things.

Chop says, "Dub190 is more than welcome to weigh in too given his extensive knowledge of constitutional law." Really? Why thank you. I'm glad I'm welcome...Do you have any questions, or are you only concerned with making statements with question marks behind them?
Dini, who said anything about rules? Was my point not true? Or were you just "offended" by the bleeding heart Liberals comment, and can't see through the anger to find COMMON SENSE?

I will say it again:
Fat people are offended all the time! Smokers too! Do you see any bleeding heart Liberals defending them?
No one ever answers anyone else's questions. They are only concerned with providing their own opinion...

Chop-right back to the validity to the DA's statements huh? Cause we all know they would never tell a lie or do anything unethical to suit self right? You must have been there when Carp said this??

momof5-wonderful points. I'm glad someone has had a taste of the real world. Some of these people are still stuck in their phoney little world where da's and cops will not tell a lie. Guess what people!!! Let me tell you something...my brother was sentanced to 22 1/2 years in prison because a Janesville police officer got on the stand in a court of law and lied!! O'Leary stated at the trial that a Janesville police officer would NOT TELL A LIE IN COURT!!! Even the judge stated that there was something more to this case but there was nothing he could do because my brother was found guilty. Almost 10 years later the cop came back and admitted he had in fact lied. Well HELLO!! Naturally, my brother was released from prison immediately and is now married and self employed running a successful business. Praise the Lord! But 10 years were stolen from and we will NEVER get that back. I don't know how we as a community have ever let things go this far. It's time for the injustice, and corruption to come to an end already. How long are we gonna turn our faces and say this is "ok" for? For those in the DA's office I'm sure you know who I am. And I'm sure I will now be hit as hard as possible for my outstanding driving charge but, somebody had to stand up. As long as the Lord is with me, who can be against me? Enough is enough! God Bless!!!

Period point blank end of story, blackouts in the practice of law are illegal not to mention against the code of ethics. There is a due process to everything and O'Leary is not abiding by it. Who lied and told him he was above the law? Somebody may get disbarred behind this but I'll bet it won't be Steve Carpenter. (at least not alone.)

JCK- You're wrong. The DA's office has banned him from calling the office also. A assitant, paralegal, or intern can not discuss plea agreements, ect. (unless they already have a liscence to practice law. chances are slim to none of that. why would somebody have a masters and work for mcdonalds wages.) We're right back to the rumor game. Very important things can become very mixed up between mouths. It's just the same as hear-say being non-admissable in court. THEY ARE HINDERING HIS ABILITY TO REPRESENT HIS CLIENTS TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY.

Doesn't that make you want to do something about it?

I agree with dub. This double standard has been around since the 80's.

Really, Dub? Whose rules are those? Doesn't sound familiar to me.

Oh no! Someone has been offended! Fat people are offended all the time! Smokers too! Do you see any bleeding heart Liberals defending them?
Offend a minority (soon to be majority) and shame on you. Offend an obese person, or a sexual deviant, and you're just fitting in...

Freedom of speech was long ago sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.

three words, people....freedom of speech.

Bhahaha...ohh wooooww, go lay down! But hey its the weekend time got things to do people to see thank you all for the laughs enjoyed, hope non of you got too upset, if so look into re-prioritizing your lives :) Enjoy your weekends and dini, you wouldnt even be in the same ball park at myself, never mind ME not being able to handle you, haha wish i would of heard that earlier, would of gone well wiht my senior quote!

jolly good time though see you all on the next big controv. topic, cant wait, and "boy, wont that ever be fun" -T.D.

Okey dokey, trimmo ... you attack without having read what it is you're attacking. Sensible young fellow. I'm sure you'll go far. Tell me to shut up when you don't know what I've said. Doesn't surprise me. You didn't even read the article before posting a comment (as evidenced in your remarks about my having made up the Craig incident).

Can you argue against some of my actual points here, or can't you? I'm betting no way. So far you're just hurling dung. That must be where the "pitchfork" reference comes from.

Thanks for the lunch invite, but you couldn't handle me.

Anyone have anything to contribute to the actual story?

and btw im the only one, theres never two of something so amazingly great! Leave it to you however to pull out of nowhere that anyone ever thought differently. :) Cheya

You Janesvillians are salty! haha

As for you tjncj im curious as to know what you are talking about, my last accident i was not faulted...not that i would ever be. And should i be i dont pay my attorneys a great deal of money years for a permanant retainer so they can do nothing for me, no im sure any traffic mishap wouldnt be an issue for me, and i also am happy to report that my licensee was just fine, even in the officers hands from a speeding issue that i received a warning from the other day...hahaha

I belive it was yourself dini who started the personal attack, should i call bill oriley to keep us out of the no spin zone? Perhaps if its an issue for you you should go sit in the corner and not speak. What question was that by the way I really didnt read anything you wrote previously, however it think you are finding it to hard to keep on track here so why dont we take advantage of our weekend and get together to discuss this artical, im sure our points would be much more intresting over a nice lunch dont you agree? (im curious as to see how you turn that one around to some crazy spectacle of accusations and missunderstandings ahaha)

tnimmo was just discussing his last traffic offense and how he will keep his drivers license if found guilty.

Your name-calling grows wearying, trimmo.

And you never answered my question.

And I think you meant "those." Not "thoughs."

Please contribute something to the dialogue (as you have called upon others to do) or politely excuse yourself.

Personal attacks should not be taken personally, as they do not reflect upon the attacked, but upon the attacker.

Dearest Bubbles:
It seems you’ve taken the liberty to dedicate a considerable amount of time to trailing my comments and making some sort of personal remarks. Whether it be reasons of raising your self esteem, some kind of defense, or just plainly feeling threatened I am not sure, but whatever the case it would be appreciated if you put both more thought, and effort into your comments if you insist on wasting the reader’s time. From reading, and based on instinct I’m sure you are more than likely a teacher, most likely at Parker, and therefore you are well aware of who I am, perhaps if you are having issue’s with any of my opinions you should take the time to contact me personally. I have nothing to be ashamed or concerned about with my writings, I say how I feel, that’s all she wrote. As for my “anger problems” I am well able to manage them. I’m happy to report that I have my life organized enough that I can’t be bothered to let something like this upset me the slightest, rather I get my kicks out of upsetting other people, such as yourself. If your finding anger within my writing my suggestion to you would be to re-evaluate how you go about judging people. As far as the honesty with my name I am very proud of who I am, and have nothing to hide, I am very forward very outspoken and I enjoy being that way, and I thank you for the compliment. The suggestions I proposed by the way from my attorney were the charges that could come up for a comment someone left me, everything else was my own opinion.

Once again if peple could please stop taking their opinions and turning them into my words that would be greatly arreciated. I thank those who would have the impression that I am a college graduate, guess I am clearly doing something right, but I myself never said, nor led the impression that I was. Unfortunatly I am stuck at parker until June...perhaps thoughs of you fools calling me out otherwise should do your research before you chose to speak again, or better yet, just dont speak!

I guess I have serious concerns regarding tnimmo. Thank you for stating your name, I appreciate your honesty. On the other hand I find it interesting you would say "it was my attorney who brought up the suggestions over dinner this evening…" and that people believe you may be in college or out of college. If I am not mistaken you are still in HIGH SCHOOL! Please do not try to be someone you are not and do not give others that impression.

Has anyone heard if Carpenter has responded yet?

discriminate,
O'Leary's actions don't prevent Carpenter from obtaining any of the information that's he's entitled to as a defense attorney and it doesn't prevent O'Leary from discussing cases with him either. It simply prevents Carpenter from being physically present in the DA's office. It doesn't prevent a member of Carpenter's staff from picking up information nor does it prevent Carpenter himself from speaking with O'Leary via phone or at another location.

That being said I still think O'Leary's actions are on the heavy handed side and a better solution to the problem could have been worked out. It isn't like Carpenter poses some sort of threat.

trimmo: Where did I get the Craig information?
Did you even read this article?

I think you need to read the article.

And you're the one who brought "publicly educated" into the conversation.

Did you read your own post? And how does attempting to insult someone by calling him/her a "publicly educated blowhard" stick to the topic at hand?

Since you brought it up, what does ANYTHING in your post from 2/28, 10:04 a.m. have to do with what you later purport to be the germane topic here?

If you want to moderate a forum, you ought to stick to your own rules.

I'm sorry your feelings were hurt, trim -- but you know, when you start singling out commenters, you open the door for the same.

I'm still waiting to hear what "publicly educated" has to do with the ability to evaluate morally unacceptable public behavior.

Everything in my previous two posts responded to points you made in your own posts.

I never intimated that Carpenter said he "personally wanted to kill .. Muslims." That doesn't mean his language wasn't threatening.

Neither do I have any personal concerns over Carpenter coming at me "with a pitchfork" (what the heck?) -- but I have serious social concerns about a person who doesn't mind branding an entire global population -- some of whom, whether you like it or not, live right here in our own community -- as worthy of killing.

It's disturbing to say the least.

And if you think my remarks about Diversity Action Team are off-topic (though I can't say for sure what your complaint really is), you are mistaken. That group is where it's at when it comes to creating a base of tolerance in this community.

Intolerance takes a lot of forms. All of it is insidious. You seem to have a bone to pick with the publicly-educated. That swung the door wide open for questions about your presumably higher-level education.

But you want to stick to the story? OK, stick to the story. The story is this: Bigotry is widespread in this community. Bigotry of all sorts. That a former ADA got caught in the act -- not once, but at least four times; not by a single person, but by dozens -- demonstrates this bigotry and swings open the door for broad discussion of that topic.

That sunlight is shone on the matter because of a news story -- well, that's exactly how the public good SHOULD be served by journalism.

Personally I've been delighted to read these posts, even the ones I disagree with. When they get personal, well, something else is going on, and it's fully within my rights and, for that matter, obligation to dig around and find out what that something else is.

So, trim, what is it?

Dearest dini79:
Ha first I have to thank you on behalf of myself and the rest of the crew for the good laughs, greatly appreciated. However, I just had to tell you how funny it is specifically that it was my attorney who brought up the suggestions over dinner this evening…I’m sure he’ll get a kick though out of hearing that he makes “no meaningful legal sense.” Also I must ask which liberal college you graduated form? I need to give that board a call and inform them of their mistake…

Moving on to your third point, which somehow I am supposed to take reference to your second point…well if you mean by being confused then alright, if you mean otherwise then I’m, well confused. To start out with Mr. Carpenter never once stated he was going to or wanted to personally kill any Muslims. Any thoughts along those lines would be taking his words out of context and turning them into your own personal assumptions. May I suggest you look back to the saying “don’t assume, you only end up making and ass out of you and me”. Instead, Mr. Carpenter referenced his son being a “Muslim killing machine” and how he feels “Muslims should be killed”. Never how he would like to go through with such actions himself. Had Mr. Carpenter had the same feelings towards Catholics, lauthers, etc it would be no concern to me until he started coming at me with a pitchfork or otherwise. People talk crap all day long and I would be fairly certain that I would not seize Mr. Carpenter up to be a person to go on a Muslim, Catholic, Lutheran etc killing spree. Should I feel that way, action would be taken promptly. In addition, I never once suggested mind reading as a tool to evaluate a conversation. However, I applaud you on your god given gift to do so, but suggest that you work on sharpening its powers because had you of been any good at it, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Anyone with a brain and any social skills, which I feel you may lack both of, from my initial impression of you, would have been able to evaluate Mr. Carpenters conversation and concluded that he was simply stating his bold opinions, whether you agree or disagree.
Furthermore, I must ask of you that you not take your ass-backwards, dimwitted, jabber and label it as “my logic”! Please go ahead and state it as your opinion that it is my logic, such would be your constitutional right, but not do enforceably label it as my own. Continuing I also ask that in your rebuttal, you spend some time to clearly state your points, and make them relevant to the article. This is of course if you’d chose to continue to make yourself look like a joke. Also I do advise you to chose more wisely the people you target with such weak arguments.

Dear dini79:
Alright well since you chose to point me out directly here is my response. First off I would love to know where you got anything to do with nothing involving a “classroom”. I find the validity of such a statement on your part to be less than creditable, if even worth acknowledging. I’m sure than an educated man such as Mr. Carpenter is able to restrain his comments from the ear’s of our children. I believe such an accusation can be labeled nothing more than hearsay and gossip, and I would appreciate if such could be held out of public conversation until proven otherwise. (I say “proven” meaning a creditable source of judgment, not your Sunday book reader’s gossip hour.) I suppose such a point on your part could be as laughable as using “Wikipedia” as a source of reference for a research paper!
Lets continue on thought to your point number two. Well I guess I will just call a fool a fool for this one: What the heck are you talking about?! Honestly if you insist on wasting my time by singling me out can you please make your arguments are at least slightly relevant. Honestly, this jibber jabber about random things is a bit irking. Clearly, the article states that Mr. Carpenter was making comments about Muslims, and nowhere in the same article did I read anything otherwise. If you could please stick to the article at hand, it would be greatly appreciated.

Oh -- trimmo -- which private liberal arts college did you attend? Because the one I graduated from gave me enough of a base to understand that the remarks here, however silly and misplaced, don't even come close to "public defamation, slander, racial slurs, etc." in any meaningful legal sense. Come to think of it, most publicly-educated people probably get that, too. Whatever THAT remark meant.

Well, it took a while, but the section finally swung around to the personal and the ridiculous. I'm surprised it kept its head as long as it did.

Nope, wasn't there at Craig, but at least a dozen people were.

Wasn't in the DA's office on the day around the water cooler, either, but at least three people besides Carpenter were.

Most of these posts up to now have been reasoned and well-considered, whether I agreed with them or not.

It was a welcome turn of events, discussing social matters in a level-headed way.

Maybe we should all be required to attend at least one Diversity Action Team event or study circle. Funny what you learn about yourself, and about the mindsets of others, when you do that. The good AND the bad, on both sides.

That is, if you're open enough to be able to hear. And tough enough to take it.

Looks to me like the matter's closed until there's more actual news about it.

It's a shame, really. But thanks to all who contributed on all sides of this story.

Dear “Big Dawg” Chop:
First off, I must inform you that I find myself questioning whether your writing was a feeble attempt to send up my quick-comment, or if you are just some typical publicly educated blowhard. Regardless, would the “porch” reference be hinting at your belief that I may be of the “African American” race? On that point I find that interesting that, you would make such a comment on an article that is about racial slurs…do I detect hypocrisy? Furthermore I would watch yourself and perhaps consider restraining yourself to the standards of a mature adult, instead of an annoying child, for if I were “African American” I would currently be on the phone with my attorney looking into different civil suits for public defamation, slander, racial slurs, etc.
Next, I have to say I am a bit curious as to what you think it is that makes you a “big dawg”. I would put my money on it that I could take you on, and down, with any argument and/or situation with the slightest of ease. Perhaps instead of wasting your probably not so valuable time, writing idiot comments, you should look into educating yourself, as to inhibit yourself from making a mockery out of your name. However if you do prefer me to continue to make you look like a joke (which please do not let me take all of the credit there, little effort is needed on my part, your doing an excellent job all on your own) please be on your marry way. However, I must ask you to refrain from using me as your target; such actions will have ruthless results.
Now if you will excuse me at this time I am going to leave the pack of “big dawgs” behind me and be on my way. I have spoken my peace and, though I do understand your embarrassment and urge to form a “witty and cut throat” rebuttal, which I am positive, will lack the ladder, I hope you will adhere to my advice/request and restrain yourself to those “mature standards of adulthood”. Regardless of whether you have entered that “hood” or not.

Sincerely
Trent Nimmo

19 crazies doesn't really give us the right to discriminate against a whole religion of people, does it? If it does, I guess we should all be discriminating against everyone. I can count 19 crazies right here in the blogs on gazzettextra... My self included ;)

And they walk among us.

Any other easily answered questions? I'm on a roll. Somebody get Mr. Carpenter on the line. I'd be more than willing to discuss any open employment oppurtunities. SMILE!

One last thing to think about...it's human nature to be selfish. Right? Well, Steve Carpenter is a genius in the courtroom. I think we'll all agree on that. So, you're telling me that he's a mastermind when it comes to playing the game with other peoples lives (for or against). But he's completely frivilous and just plain STUPID with his own?! I don't think so. It's been very obvious for quite sometime that O'Leary has a bad taste for him. Like he would really walk in that office of all places and say something like that. Yeah, I'm gonna walk on the enemy lines and tell them all my deepest, darkest secrets so they can use them against me. I dont think so!!!!!!

dini79: Were you there in the high school for that comment? I sure remember nothing about it. In fact, think about it...Carp worked for O'Leary as a DA when the school incident "happened." And he was given a warning. I would think he would have been much more likely to act on something of that PUBLIC nature while Carp worked for him than something "supposedly" said in a private office conversation when he was now self employed. C'mon people! We're smarter than that. There's something much bigger there. If I can see it, I know you can too. Just look a little deeper and play the what would you do game.

momof5: No, he can't. All attorney's have a code of ethics to follow whether they be prosecuting or deffense. Prosecuting attorneys have to a obligation to provide the defense with all they need to provide the best possible deffense to their clients. This is why the legal world has things like motions. When a deffense attorney files a motion to supress, etc. the DA is legally bound to provide in a timely manner, an itemized list of all evidence to be used against the defendent in a timely manner. Without abiding by these rules, the DA is keeping the defendent from their right to a fair trial. So, for all of Steve Carpenter's clients, the DA's office is at this point keeping from them their right to a fair trial. At least, THAT'S MY OPINION. If they won't allow him in the office, and won't talk to him, they are preventing him from representing his clients to the best of his ability. In real estate there is in the code of ethics a rule against a blackout against one person or company. Any acts in question are to be reported to the ethics comittee and will be dealt with accordingly under a due process. Anyone who starts or proceeds to blackout can be subject to the same penalties as the alleged offender. If there are rules about this in real estate, there sure as hell better be in our judicial system. If not, we've got a serious problem. The DA can go around cutting of means of living because he claims a comment was made? I never knew he was a higher power.

momo15,
Evidently he can because he has.

trimmo:
1) Such statements made in a classroom cannot be considered "private conversation."
2) His words reflected "Muslim," not the "19 crazies" who hijacked those planes.
3) (refer to #2): I ask you again -- would you feel a little differently, had he suggested how great it would be to kill a bunch of, whatever, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists? In which case, am I supposed to try and read his mind and say, "Oh, he was only referring to the men." Your logic is -- well, there just isn't any.

I am in still in awe of this all. Can anyone in the legal community tell us if a DA can legally ban anyone, an attorney or otherwise, from a government office?

Finally the gods have spoken, negating any comments made, or to have been made in the future, by those of us who could take a lesson from the glory and wiseness of these words.
(forgot to use spellcheck, though)

haha look at you all. bhah anyhoo put yourself in the position of mr. carpenter quickly, im sure that he was paying no mind to the employees who he was offending, rather than just A. making conversation, and B. statign his opinions. mr carpenter is a bold man, with bold opinions, that are bodly stated, and the ladder is the result. This said I do not agree with his statements, and I udnerstand the actions of mr oleary, however i do not feel it needed to be made such a public spectacle. look at how many people, public employees, citizens, and even people commenting on this artical wont go to certain gas stations becasue they are "ethnic" owned, or the people who make racist commetns when watching the news on the war in iraq...and those same people making the same commetns in public through conversation, in passing or aloud to themselves...i dont see any articals about them! Though mr. carpenter should of demonstrated constraint, and awarness for the people in his surroundings, he was engaging in private conversation and stating his belifes. Accordingly action his has been taken as seen fit by the DA an thats all she wrote. As for the mention of his wife, and the fact that they own quote's i feel that that was inappropriate and irrelevent. it would be my personal statement of belife that the gazzette should be careful of following suit on the part of mr carpenter for any negative connotation twords business of quotes, and/or harrasment twords mrs carpenter as a result of both names beign mentioned. wouldnt that be an intresting event.

Basically mr. carpenter should of demonstrated restraint and awarenes. I do not condone/argree with his comments, but I do understand the reasoning for the events that lead to this mess. I feel that the whole thing could of been handled better and more effectivly, but I do understand and support the actions of Mr. O'leary. My opinion would say that the gazzette should hold more respect/restraint for the people related indirectly to this event.

If any fools wish to foolishly object my opinions to me personally please feel free to email me at ireallydontcare@yahoo.com or call me at 1-800-IDR-CARE or please feel free to write down your frivolus thoughts and either throw the paper away, save it, or mail it me directly at P.O. 1234 Get a life, WI, 53545.

By the way this, thankfuly, is NOT TOM NIMMO.

Seabee...you wouldn't allow rap in your bar? That's your choice. Does this mean you're a racist? Probably not. But this just proves that Steve Carpenter is the furthest thing from a racist there is. He allows things of this nature in his bar because he does not care what a persons cultural preference is as long as everyone is having a good time safely. Not to mention his minority employees. Steve... the KKK is SOOO disappointed in you right now!

I was so in awe of the whole thing that I forgot my biggest point. IF he had said such a thing...I'm 100% positive that he was not talking about women, children, or innocent bystanders. He is not that type of person. Rather I would say he was talking about people like the 19 crazies who hit the towers on 9/11 injuring 6,291+ Americans (2,998 of which resulted in death.) (Or have we all forgotten so quickly?) If that's the case, we may as well ban the President, Vice Pres., Sec. of Defense, and all Marines from the country. Don't forget the NYPD, NYFD, and all the victims & their families cause I'm sure they all felt the same way. Add me to the list cause I would like to know when Steve's son is leaving next so I can get my plane ticket in advance. This is not about whites, blacks, muslim, catholic, jewish, ect. This is about INSANE people hurting other INNOCENT PEOPLE!

I wouldn't allow rap in my bar either. That music attracts an element that inherently brings trouble tothe bar. Look at thepolice blotter and youwill know what I'm talking about. Besides, It's not like rap has an musical qualities to it anyway.

One last statement... I know racist bar owners in this city who will admit that out load. They will not allow any rap music in their bar. That is a large part of his Thurs., Fri., and Sat. entertainment. He owns one of the few minority traveled bars in this city. He's a racist?! He has never cared about the color of a person's skin. With him, it's all about the people themselves.

Bull, bull, bull...not everyone in the public knows the real deal so stop making assumptions based on the books cover. I've had my "first hands" with the D.A.'s office and know the politics, and the people. Steve Carpenter is the only honest person that I know of to come out of that office. Have we ever stopped to think that this is why he left the office in the first place. Maybe HE couldn't deal with the discrimination and the questionable ethics anymore. He has always been the one to stand up and fight for the underdog regardless to race, religion, and person no matter what his fellow employees thought about it. As a D.A. he was involved with a huge trial in which my brother was convicted by a lie that one of Janesville's finest employees told on the stand. He knew in his heart of hearts that there were some inconsitencies in this trial and so aside from his fellow employees opinions was always as fair as possible with me during my troubled period because he saw that I was really a good person. When the truth came to light about my brothers case 10 years later, my brother was released immediately. To do the best he could to make up for being forced to be involved in that charade by his employment as a D.A., he wound up then fighting FOR my brother. I feel like this made the D.A.'s office feel betrayed. That was just as bad as a good cop turning in his dirty partner. How dare he!? To Steve... when they ban the few good, honest ones left, they remain without a clean frontman and their dirt will be brought to light. Those of us who know the truth will stand behind you 127%. This is not for nothing. The truth will come to light and all of those who slander you for being an honest, ethical person will be in worse shape than you are now and you will be on top of the world. A dose of reality is just what this city needs!

Mr. O'leary is caught in a undesirable situation. If Mr. O'leary stands by and does nothing, then the employees could have charges brought against him or the city or both for allowing or creating a hostille work environment. If he does remove this person in which he did then he could face charges again for possibly freedom of speech. There is public judjement either way. What tough postion to be in.

Not excusing anything. Just saying ignorance takes on many forms and is present in many people. Some of whom we would expect and some whom we would not.

heat: True enough ... at least four times that we know of.
You know, O'Leary's not exactly known for being aggressive. I think this had to be pretty serious for him to file the complaint.

And I just can't excuse that Craig appearance.

dini79......" intent on exercising his freedom of speech" ?
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I would tend to believe, at this point anyway, that it was more a case of the mouth engaging before the brain did.

Those who remind us that these are, as yet, allegations are correct, of course. And often I'm the one pointing this out. So while I retract nothing, I'll wait to see what an investigation turns up. However, it seems clear that there's more than one witness to, at least, the Craig incident.

It's a funny time, though, for a guy so intent on exercising his freedom of speech to clam up.

BTW--Chop--David O'Leary is somehow culpable. Steve Carpenter made derrogatory comments to a group of KIDS while still working for the Rock County DA's office. Why is it now being brought to light some 9 years later? O'Leary must not have thought it to be so offensive then, could be one argument.

Chop: I agree with you about the axe to grind part. My point is that the justice system would not be serving anyone justice if a member of the judicial community "grinded an axe" with a fellow attorney etc.., at the cost of the represented.

Final thought: If Steve Carpenter made any of those derrogatory comments while working for the DA's office (which he did according to the article), is the DA not as culpable for fostering a hostile work environment for HIS employees? Afterall, Steve was there 40+ hours a week as a full-time fixture in the DA's office when the Craig incident occured.

my mistake: the "key word" in the article is was referring to was "ALLEGATIONS." There's two sides to EVERY story. I have no idea if Atty. Carpenter really said those things (and in the context in which David O'Leary says) or not and I'd guess the majority of other posters on here do not either.

Chop: there is a fatal flaw in your "test" arguement. >>>>Apply the following test to Steve: You need a court appointed attorney and Steve Carpenter shows up to represent you. Do you think he is going to get a fair plea from the DA? No. Do you want him representing your case in front of a judge and jury? No.<<<<< If David O'Leary is not wiling to offer up a fair plea agreement because of who the defendant's attorney is, then I say he is guilty of the same bigotry and unprofessionalism he is accussing Steve Carpenter of. The same goes for a Judge and jury of "your" peers. I'm not defending Steve Carpenter. However, we also need to keep in mind one key word in this article: ACCUSATIONS.

chop? Are you missing my point, rambling though it may be? I agree with you about the man, but was just expressing why-that the way he forms his views are misguided, at the very least. His views are not based on individual merit apparently, but on rampant misconception-and that is what I was saying while staying 93% on point-about the same as you for chastising me for my post in the first place. I don’t even think he would make a good dog-bite lawyer because we don’t know which dog he might relate his cases to, Cujo, Lassie, or 101 Dalmatians.
(I know, this is not about movies either).
Thank you wisconsinheat :-)

RUSerious is correct.

Education or no education....freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Do I agree with Mr. Carpenter's racial slurs? no- but our constitution affords him the right to freedom of speech. I disagree with him in the ways and places he spoke in such a manner and he has to understand that those types of comments might offend people. My point is simply that there are certain places, times, and situations in which one should exercise freedom of speech and in a position like Mr. Carpenter's I believe he was in the wrong.
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Iraqmarine- Thank you for all your service and keeping our wonderful country safe. You are a true American and a true hero. God Bless You

Stephen Carpender......GOOD FOR YOU!!--he was our d.a.-he didnt remember one day to the next but he knows how to do his job!

Well, perhaps not directly, chop, and I considered this, but decided to comment anyway. Surely Carpenter’s inclination to pigeonhole people based on indirect associations would affect his ability to be a fair and unbiased attorney. You read his comments about his son being a “Muslim-killing Marine,” and that he “bagged some Muslims” while serving in Iraq? That, of course, led to comments from one who found no problem with the statements that caused Carpenter to be barred from the DA’s office (statements blatantly expressing his personal biased views in that public setting). The poster’s additional comments criticized people who did not feel the same way about this very war. If someone did not take exception to Carpenter’s comments, as well as to the views of the person who defended them, and that person’s additional erroneous beliefs, it appears that we are in agreement with them. (Wouldn’t THAT be scary if everyone felt the same way?) Anyway-Carpenter himself was quoted making references to the Iraq war and made his feelings obvious. I think comments related to the reasons he was barred, and disagreements about his apparent mindset, are relevant to this forum, and to whether or not his ability to work (affectively) in the DA’s office has been compromised (as asked in the “test” in your statement).

If you look at Fred Phelps, (the man who protests soldier's funerals) he is a very wealthy man who has a lucrative law practice. He is well known by the bar to be full of hate and prejudice yet his family and minions, who follow his beliefs still practice.

His comments are obnoxious and objectionable but it just seems kind of heavy handed to ban him from the DA's office. The courthouse is a public building and I assume the DA's office is also open to the public. Why not simply issue him a ticket the next time it happens so it doesn't impact his ability to earn a living.

On the other hand. What's his problem that he can't conform his behavior to acceptable standards after he's been warned that it's objectionable?

While I am scratching my head at why Mr. Carpenter would go out of his way to voice these comments to his colleagues, he does have a right to his feelings, opinions and beliefs. That said, the right to free speech doesn't guarantee him the right to be free from any repercussions resulting from his comments. However, given our current climate, perhaps Mr. Carpenter should have made such negative comments against a "mainstream" Christian faith, doesn't seem like too many people have any problems with trashing people of those religions anymore, its certainly more politically correct to do so. However, I'd like to believe that Mr. O'Leary would have reacted the same if these comments were directed at Catholics, Jewish people or Lutherans. I hope anyway. Just my $.02.

...and I am sick to death of people STILL equating anti-war with anti-troop, and now iraqmarine has it evolved into one word when he says "why don't they focus some of that energy on the anti-troop/war protesters out there".
As I read this very morning, (about) 70% of Americans are now against the war (or whatever we're supposed to call it) in Iraq. But does anyone honestly believe that most Americans do not support and sympathize with all the young men and women who have been sent to Iraq, some several times, whether they were compelled by a sense of duty-or we have to admit, some because they had no choice?
All who come back honorably, no matter how they got there, and whether under their own power or carried back in a box by fellow troops, should be considered heroes. That does not mean we have to think they should have been sent there in the first place, or we can be considered un-American for feeling that way. Maybe our view of the U.S. is that it should be a peaceful country, not a war mongering one. This is NOT to say we shouldn’t protect ourselves if directly threatened (after all precautions are taken to make sure we are doing the right thing), just that years of bloodshed and unrest without regard to innocent victims or logic should be avoided at all costs. Unlike Carpenter and maybe iraqmarine, those against the war do not blame individuals for the actions of a group over which they hold no power. (Innocent Muslims were not the 9/11 terrorists (does that still fit in here?), individual troops did not plan the US Iraqi invasion nor, in most cases, did they have a choice to go or not).

Before I really comment, I'd like to say that wanting to end the war is completely different than supporting the troops. The war has been underfunded since the beginning and extremely poorly planned tactically. I would love to see the troops come home. It's time for our military to go about the war on terror in a different way. I absolutely support all our men and women fighting for "W" around the world.

This issue really has nothing to do with the war other than we happen to be fighting a war in the Muslim world. Carpenter's comments are incredibly insensitive and racist. Because a very isolated group of Muslim's committed violence against us we should wipe them all out? That's crazy. There is a small part of all cultures and populations who wish to do others harm. Should we kill them all? Hitler committed horrible attrocities against the Jewish people. We didn't kill all German's. Just because some in a group are bad doesn't make the group bad. Maybe if our citizens who align their thoughts with Carpenter's would get some cultural education they'd be able to paint with a little less broad a brush. We can only hope.

"while still an assistant prosecutor—he essentially represented as a defense attorney an employee of Quotes, a bar that Carpenter and his wife, Denise, own and operate in downtown Janesville."
Is this why Quotes has so many police calls, and nothing happens to their liquor license? Things that make you go, hmmmm.....

iraqmarine, I sincerely thank you for your service and hope that you are well and that your life was not disrupted in the service of your country.

However, it scares the devil out of me to think that members of the U.S. military believe we are at war against Islam.

Now, I've heard a number of rationales for this war, but that one hasn't come up.

It is troubling to me that anyone -- anyone -- believes Carpenter's words were "harmless."

It is just as unacceptable as it would have been, had he uttered the words "Let's kill all the Catholics" or "I hope we kill a lot of African-Americans" (presumably made all the worse if overheard by a Catholic or an African-American working within earshot).

How is it that you find his rhetoric acceptable?

However, I feel that' as described, Mr. Carpenter's comments have nothing to do with his function or business and are therefore inappropriate and unprofessional in the setting in which they were put forth. His personal opinions or statement of fact have no place in a public service setting and have the unacceptable consequence of reflecting unfavorably upon the office of the district attorney.

Maybe Mr. O'leary should have a "psych test" required for employees or assistants. Something simular to the "psych test being proposed for all the police depts. in WI

I am a former Marine that served and was wounded in Iraq. Do I think that all Muslims are bad?...No, but I also don't think Mr. Carpenters harmless comments are wrong either. He has a son that served his country in Iraq. A son who fought against Muslims who tried to kill him. He obviously has personal reasons to feel the way he does. Instead of Mr. O'Leary (and the Gazette) focusing some much time and energy on Mr. Carpenter, why don't they focus some of that energy on the anti-troop/war protesters out there. The men and women of the US Military risk their lives every day for everyone back here in the states. Most of them would love to have more Mr. Carpenters out there who are behind them 100% and not against them!!

Has Carpenter's son indeed killed Muslims? If he has, then what he says is is true. Will you stone a man for speaking the truth?

Using the word "kill" in the same breath as a word that describes a larger world population than that of, say, Christians goes way beyond "insensitive."

Any racial or cultural epithet is plain unacceptable.

That it came out of the mouth of a person active in our own court system WHILE ADDRESSING high school students -- or anyone --is therefore unacceptable.

Lots of people talk without thinking. College degrees and Bar memberships don't cure diarrhea of the mouth. Still, you'd think the folks at the D.A.'s office would be less sensitive to the ramblings of an insensitive buffoon.

Dan -- What an excellent point about the military code. I hadn't considered that. But Carpenter should.

Appalling behavior, especially the incident at Craig, and when you consider that he must have personally known the Muslim employee. As to his career, he can always work on probate and other non-criminal stuff, and he can have a paralegal handle case filings. I believe it would be up to individual judges to allow him in their courtrooms.
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He probably won't be disbarred as this is not directly related to his legal work, but the bar might censure him on a character basis.
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He should also consider that he's speaking in defiance of our official policy and the military code to which his son is sworn. We are not at war with any Muslim nation. I would hate for his comments to reflect back to his son's chain of command.

Right-O Dini. I think Carpenter lacks some sort of a social appropriateness filter. Does he think that everyone hates Muslims, so it's okay for him to repeatedly make such statements? I can't believe he said these things to a group of high school students, let alone to professionals in a county office. It will be interesting to hear what his response is to the question of how he will effectively represent his clients after being barred from the DA's office. Or maybe he'll just resign.

If nothing else (and there is a great deal "else"), these offensive actions speak volumes about the judgment of this attorney.

I am satisfied to know that Mr. O'Leary, whose reputation has him sitting down for most fights, is standing up on this one.

I hope that he would do the same whether there was a Muslim on his staff or not.

And I do hope that this action sends the message that race-baiting will no longer be tolerated in this community.

Shame on Carpenter. He should be removed from practice. At the very least, he's demonstrated himself to be unfit for the Bar.