She's right I did; but I related it to this blog to make a point. After this I'm done!
Hannah...either you believe in choice and taking personal responsibility for that choice...or you don't, it is very simple.

I know both of these gentlemen and their histories sort of lead up to this type of behavior. It's not a surprise that either of them are in trouble with the law. I think both of them will be in and out of jail for years to come and it's sad to say but I don't think this is the last time someone will get hurt for them not thinking of the consequences.

no i cant bars are smoking- so i am banned from bar because it is bad for you.
so back on track with this post please

no- i am not lost justthefacts brought up from different blog

hannah - To make it simple for you yes, by your own logic in this blog. You can choose to not go, or go to a non-smoking bar.

Hannah I think you are lost.

so non smokers are BAN from a smoking bar because we dont like the nasty smoke in there. why shouldnt the people smoking the nasty cigs be ban from the bar. they are the ones ruining the air not the nonsmokers. every should be able the breath clean air in public place.

Yet another couple of Janesville's finest punks--at least one with a lengthy criminal record.

On a related note, you'd think that the very first thing you'd do after an underage acquaintance for whom you'd purchased alcohol for died in a car crash would be to delete your MySpace page full of your love for drinking & smokin'.

avidreader:
I agree. Just wanted to point it out because as is too often the case in these threads, people jump to conclusions and make too many assumptions.

wisconsinheat, no offense taken, my plain and simple comment was reguarding this story. I understand parents can allow their kids to drink in their presence, as long as those parents understand, if that kid does something stupid afterwards, the parents are to be held responsible. As far as that goes, in my opinion, anybody who lets people drink in their home, no matter how old the person is drinking, has the responsibility to not let them leave drunk and drive. Wether it is a law or not, it is a responsibility you take on for letting people drink in your home.

A comment was made that maybe the men didn't know she was underaged. Doesn't matter, if they didn't know how old she was, then they didn't know her very well, in which case, if you buy alcohol for people you don't know, then your asking for trouble.

avidreader:
"It is illegal to purchase alcohol for consumption by minors, or to allow minors to drink alcohol in your residence, plain and simple."
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Now don't take this the wrong way, but what I want to point out is that the legality of minors drinking alcohol is not so "plain and simple." Too often people jump to conclusions and make assumptions such as the above statement without knowing all the facts.
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Yes, in this particular case it appears the purchase and consumption was illegal. However, it is not always illegal for adults to purchase for and minors to consume alcoholic beverages.
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Chapter 125 of the Wisconsin statutes clearly state that "Any underage person may procure, possess and consume alcoholic beverages if accompanied by a parent, guardian or spouse who has attained the legal drinking age.
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So the point is, don't assume things are always plain and simple in any situation. Always get all the facts first. Like I said, in this case it does appear laws were broken.
But, how many times have we heard about underage drinking and just assumed it was all illegal? That may not always be the case. Granted, by allowing it, even legally, could open a whole 'nother can of worms. But that's for another discussion.

And this is just my opinion, which everyone is entitled to have, but I believe they Should be brought up on involuntary manslaughter charges. Thay may not have intended for her to die, but their negligent actions caused her to die. Doesn't matter at this point what she should have or shouldn't have done,she paid for her mistakes, but one of men provided the alcohol, the other provided a place for her to drink it, and neither of them had enough sense to take her keys away, either before the drinking, or after.

It is illegal to purchase alcohol for consumption by minors, or to allow minors to drink alcohol in your residence, plain and simple. That is what the boys are charged with. Had the store sold it to the minor, they too would have been charged. As far as them carding both people thinking that one was buying for the other, did the article even state if both people entered the store?

hannah- Exactly my point, but I won't bother trying to explain it, because you won't get it. You base debate off of emotion, and not logic. Thats fine, but it can lead to ambiguous arguments for, as in one set of circumstances, you argue they didn't force her to drive, yet in another argument, you claim that non-smokers are forced to breath second hand smoke. I would actually agree with you for the most part on this particular (drunk driving argument); however, would say the same logic applies to the smoking in bars issue (nobody is forcing anyone to go).

I never said that caused the accident I know acohol caused it and they were both drunk. even though jenifer is pregnant. It is dunb to drive drunk and dumb to watch spongbob while driving but even dumbeer to do them BOTH ya know.

Yes alwaysthere, Im sure watching Spongebob on a DVD player while driving was the cause of the accident and being nearly twice over the limit hadnt had much to do with it. Unbelievable.

How pathetic. More of not taking responsibility for your actions. Always someone else to blame. No wonder she was such a troubled kid. It was never her fault but someone elses.

Anyone that knowingly contributes to the injury or death of another person, of age or not, should have the full punishment of the law handed down to them. A person that thinks otherwise is just not thinking about what it means to love and care for one another. Kelsie will never get the 2nd chance to realize this, either by not drinking or use of a seatbelt. Maybe a little time will allow these two individuals to rethink how they look @ things and people. I will miss her everyday, god bless.

WHAT they did was ILLEGAL. Regardless if she had not died or NOT. ILLEGAL folks. Just like her driving and drinking was illegal.

atj359 your comment -Yes, those guys should be in trouble for giving her alcohol but doesn't she have to take some responsiblity in what happened? She was old enough to know the law, she chose to drink and she chose to get behind the wheel'

doesn't she have to take some responsibility?

HELLO she DIED>>>

IF someone had not given her the alcohol she could not have drank. Thats how it makes these two clowns responsible. IT does not matter that maybe she could have gotten it from someone else. Then someone else would be in trouble. HOW stupid of a comment is ' well they did not make her drink it..' What did they think she was going to do with it?? Frame it and stare at it??

ITS time people get their heads out of the sand and start taking responsiblilty for what THEY do. Which includes these two clowns who gave her the alcohol..

I talked with the sister of the girl who lived. She siad that her sister (jenifer) said they had a DVD player in the car and were watching spongbob while they drove. I wonder why they aren't saying that cawzed the accident but maybe they did not tell thr cops that.

justthefacts
i am sure if they bought her smokes again DIDNT FORCE HER TO SMOKE THEM!! it is her OWN CHOICE ON THESE DECISSIONS. i am so tired again of people blaming others in choices made by the true person at fault. no one made her drink, no body made her drive, nobody made her drive recklessley, nobody made her not wear her seatbelt

she would have gotten the alcohol from somebody else if not these kids. i am sure too they didnt force her to drink it. it was ultimatly her decision to do so

they were talking about this on 99.9 news and HE WOULD have been in trouble like i mentioned if she was under 18.

It's good that the reporter used the correct of the bridge:

Bellrichard Bridge

It is unfortunate that this woman had to give her life for the decisions that she made and now her family has to suffer for it. Yes, those guys should be in trouble for giving her alcohol but doesn't she have to take some responsiblity in what happened? She was old enough to know the law, she chose to drink and she chose to get behind the wheel.

Doc get off your self rightous pot. The girl died. Its now time to hold the people responsible that gave her the alcohol.

Sorry folks there has to be stiffer penaltys for people who provide alcohol to minors. They need to go to jail. If they had not provided it she could not have drank.. Not just them but anyone who would have bought it for any under age person.. As it stands now I believe they only get a TICKET>> less than 350.00

350vs someones life , HMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

Where were my assumtions I only stated facts I went back and read my posts?....... Maybe you should now that you are being unbiased go back read my posts and then give me your final opinion on this whole thing. I only ask that you really think about this as I have, I have discussed this with many people in the past few weeks and now that A couple of arests have been made I feel that some of the FACTS IN THIS CASE BE RECOGNIZED. And notice I said FACTS, thats all I am asking for nothing more nothing less...... I rest my case your honor. As I stated prior you are now the UNBIASED judge.

That's my point doc, JUST THE FACTS, no assumptions like you had earlier.

I knew you were gonna post something like that, so I guess I'm glad I stayed up 10 more minutes if you look at the times I could not have rewritten my post so quickly, It just happened maybe the gazette wanted to get my point across but we both know that isn't the case...., I really only posted it once so as I go to bed now try to figure it out and trey to think my points all the way through to get back on track here........ wisconsinheat just put your mind in neutral mode to see all the sides try being like A judge who has to be imparcial there you go be the judge on this but remember you can not be biased in any way at all! You have to take JUST THE FACTS!!!!!!

What's with your double post doc? Think if you get the "last word" it will mean your arguments make sense? NOT.

Hey while were at it how about holding Kwik trip on 51 somewhat responseable since they sold the beer to them because if A liquor store thinks the alcohol being purchased is for the other person with them they have to be carded also and they can refuse to sell to that those persons.....HMMMMM something else to ponder. Goodnight now and I'll check back tomorrow and see who else besides wisconsinheat has any input. I understand his point of view but I'm trying not to be biased and look at this just from A neutral point of view and I'm sure if wisconsinheat did the same it might be different. Then again maybe not!

Even people in huber can drive. Maybe not legally but when they are let out for 12 hours at a time, what do you expect? A deputy to personally escort them every minute of every day"
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Our system, as good as it is,still sucks.

Hey while were at it how about holding Kwik trip on 51 somewhat responseable since they sold the beer to them because if A liquor store thinks the alchol being purchased is for the other person with them they have to be carded also and they can refuse to sell to that those persons.....HMMMMM something else to ponder. Goodnight now and I'll check back tomorrow and see who else besides wisconsinheat has any input. I understand his point of view but I'm trying not to be biased and look at this just from A neutral point of view and I'm sure if wisconsinheat did the same it might be different. Then again maybe not!

After all of her offenses heck yes 15 last year! What happened to sitting time (even if it was in huber) for driving after revocation? I'm not talking about after suspension I know thats not one that has jail time but OAR used to have jail time that went along with it after the 2nd and if you check her record she had those covered...... She for certain did not have A valid drivers license for some time prior to this, and if she did then there was something very very wrong!

"the systems resposibility in this"
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And just what is the systems responsibility in this? Lock them up so they can't drive?

OK listen first off the scenario I was refering to was the 15 year old operating the car alone or with A friend along, thus making it illegal, I am aware that it could be possible for A 15 and 1/2 year old to operate A motor vehicle on wisconsin streets and highways as long as they where accompanied by A licensed parent or legal... Now wait A minute how the heck did we get so far off course here that we are debating about A 15 year olds right to drive? This is about A certain case and there were other aspects you have not aknowledged in my satement such as, the systems resposibility in this and the families. You and everyone else has not aknowledged those yet. I'm wanting to hear those responses and oppinions.

"(although try wrapping your brain around this one)"
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Does the shoe fit?

doc0430
You just showed that many people make ASSUMPTIONS that are not true.
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In the state of Wisconsin, it is legal for someone who has attained the age of 15 years 6 months to hold a instruction permit, and thus LEGALLY operate a motor vehicle.
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Thus,although the umbrella of liability is still with the parent / sponsor / insured, it drastically changes many other aspects of the umbrella of "accountability"..
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People shouldn't be so quick to assume without having all the facts.

Both!, if that 15 year old had the parents consent and went and killed someone with that vehicle, think about it A minor behind the wheel. Of course the parent would be responsible, (although try wrapping your brain around this one)but wouldn't that parent be acting irresponsible at the same time letting that 15 year old drive the vehicle to begin with?

" A 15 year old drives his parents car with their permission then yes the parent is held accountable."
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Are you talking criminally, or civil liability?

Benthinkin if A 15 year old drives his parents car with their permission then yes the parent is held accountable, A 15 year old is A minor and the parents of course are responsible............ Go to CCAP punch in Kelsies name and hold on tight Yes she had 15 count them 15 driving offenses in 2007 alone she recieved her 3rd underage drinking ticket in 2005!!!!!!! This girl should not have been behind the wheel drunk or sober, and yes if she wanted to drink she was gonna drink I recognized her picture from her obituary and it wasn't from church (It was from at least 1 or 2 bars last year) It's sad that she is dead what A waste of A young life that probably could have been saved with A little intervention from the courts or from counseling, But now its too late! I fault the forgiving system that never held her accountable through the years just as much as the boys who bought the beer that night and who knows they may have seen her at the bars and thought she was of age also, she did hang around others that were older check out the age of the girl no wait, the woman who was riding with her at the time of the accident 26. I'm not saying these girls were bad people at all just troubled and unguided and in need of help unfortunately its too late for Kelsie now.... Parents just pray its not your child next........... Any idea where they are tonight?

Hannah - would your opinion be different if they bought her a pack of smokes, which fifty years later led to death from "smoking related causes". Not trying to be difficult but I am beginning to question the consistancy and logic of your opinions. They ...although not directly resposible; did act in a way that may have indirectly led to an unfortunate series of events which resulted in the loss of a young womens life.

Like anything else, it depends on ALL the facts and circumstances.

But the point is she was not of legal age.
So if a parent lets a 15 year old drive a car, and they get in an acident and kill someone, the parent should not be accountable???

First of all she is an adult. She made all these decisions including speeding and not wearing a seat belt. Just because she is not old enough to legally drink it does not mean she is absolved of the decisions she made. Did these men contribute to her death? Of course, but not any more than a rural tavern or bar would have if she were 21 instead of 19.

I'm sorry, but these men should be held responsible for this girl dying. When you give alcohol to someone who is under age and that person gets hurt or hurts someone else, you are, and should be, just as much to blame as the under age person. If these guys didn't provide the girls with the alcohol this accident probably wouldn't have happened. You can argue that if these guys wouldn't have bought the girls the liquor someone else would have. If someone else would have bought it, they would be the ones being charged.

Hannah, that usually happens if someone is hurt and ends up dying later. This girl is already gone. If they were going to charge these two men with killing her, they would have done it already.

no not yet but they might be. sorry i did read article i am just thinking ahead of what others charges theyll try to drum up. these charges have occured before when someone gives out alcohol and then later somebody dies in a way from it

I don't think hannah read the article.

Hannah, where does it say that these men are facing anyone trying to put them in jail for killing somebody. They have been arrested for contributing alcohol to minors and for not preventing the ILLEGAL consumption of that alcohol by a minor. If, in the course of due process, they end up in jail, then they need to accept those consequences. But nowhere in the article does it say that anyone is trying to put them in jail for those offenses.

i am sure they forced her into a car to drive and speed and get killed too!!! i think all that warrents here is a contrubiting alcohol to minor not trying to put them in jail for killing somebody