Boy rocko you really solved this one. I almost thought I could here my parents coming down the hall to give me a time out...
Actually folks, whenever the government steps in and subsidizes anything it is from a controlling interest. That is exactly why our government gives out so much to other countries... to control them.
If the govt. really was looking out for farmers, the money the spend would go toward giving the farmers the knowledge and tools to be successful, not just another handout because you had a bad season.

There is no government in Afghanistan? Yes there is. OURS! Why? Because our fine government thinks we can save them too. How about we stop saving everyone and let people save themselves? Less government, more FREEDOM!

Rockcofarmer- I hear you. And Tahiti, by the way.

Farmer brings up a valid point that the Gov has a great interest in funding business, either by tax cuts or subsidy. Look at how many businesses were subsidized by not taxing capital gains profits on new facilities built in China and India. These were American jobs.

You shouldn't be angry about farmer's work being subsidized, we should be angrier about CRP- Crop Reserve Program- where farmers get paid to let land go fallow. In a land where people get food stamps to eat, we have an abundance of raw product.
I'm not the only one here who remembers the Dairy buyout in the 80's. All those beautiful, high-producing holsteins that went to hamburger to keep milk prices up.

Support family farms and co-ops. There are great CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) farms around- Scotch Hill in Brodhead, Tipi Produce in Evansville- put your money where your mouth is-literally!! Buy a share in these organic farms, get out there and pick up your food, and get in touch with how hard farmers work.

There is no free market moron, the government is in everything. Notice the drastic change in bank interest rates (75 basis pts by the fed), morgage bailout, your free hand out coming in May, etc, etc. There is no government in afganistan, maybe you could get a government voucher to relocate and settle there. Your views are much like the taliban...wah, wah, You blame all your problems on things you can't control. The hispanics are taking my jobs(assuming you can work), the unions prevent me from keeping a job, the rich farmers are taking my money, and welfare is a GREAT FREE ride. You guys got a lot of issues. PLEASE SEEK therapy. Like I said come up with a viable solution. Good thing you guys live in your parent's house or you wouldn't be able to make it. I have two questions for you now. 1) When the new farm bill gets signed, should I go to Hawaii or Tahiti? 2) Do you think that the newest grain bin they built at the Milton ethanol plan is to hold your precious tax dollars they're collecting from the government? Thats what I will think everytime I go there now. It sure is a pretty bin. Hey offecerfriendly, if this subsidy thing is a crime, put down your donut and call a cop. Ha Ha. Now thats funny! Time for you to attack instead of sovle.

Apparently I haven't been making myself clear. My solution is to get rid of Farm Subsidies and let the market/farmers take care of itself/themselves. Less government, more FREEDOM!

Your all talk, go back into your room in your parents house and play with your laptop. whiner

Well, you know it is also legal (there is legislation) for me to go on welfare and govt support but I choose to do it the old fashion way...

You guys are still crying about this? Quit complaining like a couple of spoiled kids who can't have it their way. SEEBEE - That was the subject of the story, did you read the article? It makes more sense to sell the corn and soybeans rather than pass them through a hog and lose money. The pork prices are down most likely due to over supply. This is caused by the vertical integration in the hog industry squeezing out the individual farmer. I'm not following that market so all you blog know-it-all's please don't become instant experts with your dubious "facts and figures". This story had nothing to do with farm subsidies but rather the subsidies paid to ethanol plants for our renewable fuel iniative, but, since you guys brought it up, what is your solution? The farm bill is a legal piece of legislation, like it or not. I will continue to take those payments and any other that I may qualify for because they enhance my bottom line. This would be no different than not taking a tax break or any other incentive offered to me. If you want to means test it, fine, I'm all for it. Spell out your solution to this or let it go. The more you cry, the more pathetic you sound. Poor little babies. By the way I had to get a bigger mailbox to handle all of your money coming my way.

Yeah like you could grow corn and soybeans and the government will send you a huge check! I like the idea but that "simple little equation" should apply to EVERYONE.

Here's an idea, if you are losing money on raising hogs, obviously the supply far outstrips the demand. Quit raising hogs and do something else. Simple little equation......

"Just remember one of the largest contributors to Wisconsin's economy is Agriculture..." Absolutely. But don't discount the role of the taxpaying citizen in that economy. Total Direct Payments benefits in Wisconsin totaled $343 MILLION in program years 2003-2005. That money doesn't fall from the money tree. As long as I'm paying the bills you can darn well bet I'm going to have something to say about it!

Take a look at your last post... The only fact was that officerfriendly used hard facts. Everything else in you post was emotion, specualation and opinion without any facts.
This trend is in many of your posts.

what part of our posts are not factual? Sure officerfriendly has hard facts off one web site, but he does not have a clue about farming and I would tend to think ben you don't either (even if your family had a farm at one point doesn't mean you understand). The only reason I have not quit on the issue is because you people are so narrow minded against agriculture. You can't see past the $'s and the fact that people in our industry have feelings as well. Just remember one of the largest contributors to Wisconsin's economy is Agriculture and our country's ag exports are better than any industry out there. You won't be importing all your food from over seas.

Oops what happened to being done with "you People" like you mention in about half of your posts. Your information is mainly emotional while officerfriendly is offering factual details.
Maybe that is why officer is coming across better...

The reason those crops are not grown to a large extent in this area is due to the fact they do not thrive well here with our climate. Weather is a big factor and causes a lot of winterkill and disease issues for wheat as an example. The crops you listed are better well suited to areas like Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc...

Let me try this again. Rock County farmers received $17.1 MILLION in direct payment farm subsidy benefits from 2003-2005. Of the $17.1 MILLION, $16.8 MILLION was for corn and soybean subsidies. The remaining $300,000 was for wheat, oats, sorghum and barley subsidies. Gee, I wonder why nobody is planting wheat, oats, sorghum or barley?

one last thing the $300,000 your are confused about is the difference between your numbers of $17.1 million and $16.8 million in taxes. That would be a payout of about $100,000 per year. That is not that much in the big picture. Also those years had higher subsidies due to crop failure, low prices and other factors. In 2006 and 2007 those number sould be very different. These are your numbers I did not check them. As for taxes farms are like any other business with depreciation and expenses. However, Individually we have to pay income tax just like everyone else. That is it for me I have better things to do. Hope you can look past the government issue and still be friends with you farm nieghbors. Just remember we support many organizations in our communities and businesses as well. I don't know what you do for a living but I hope you enjoy what you do.

You can't find anyone to work around here for less than $8 per hour or more. I wouldn't think of paying anyone less than $8-$10 per hour. You really have no idea what it takes to run a farm these days. You only see what you think is wrong done to you by subsidies. I would challenge you to walk in a farmers shoes. High stress, long hours, various government rules, high costs of inputs, uncertanty, and high cost of health insurance. I love what I do. If the government deams it fit to give farmers subsidies so be it. That is not my call and no I will not drive down the road and give it away. You can tell your politicians to take away the money. I'm tired of people like you thinking farmers just get free money and don't work for it and all we do is grow crops for nothing but fun. This is my business and no the government will not bail us out if we fail. Why do you think farms are sold and go bankrupt. I think the government should stay out of the farm industry to an extent. That way the farms that are being supported by the gov would have to sell out,mainly to larger farms. This would give our farm more acres to rent and the ability to get larger. I see this is what you want. I am done wasting my time with people like you, you don't have all the facts and you don't have anything to do with ag except eat.

Hey wait a minute... farmers get subsidies because they are not making any money and now you tell us they are paying all of this income tax???

Sounds like tricky accounting...

General minimum wage rate for Wisconsin adult employees = $6.50 per hour. Minimum wage rate for Wisconsin adult agriculture employees = $5.15 per hour.(hmm, are you seeing a trend here?) I'm sure the federal income tax collected from Rock County farm employees reaches $17.1 million, yeah right! "$300,000 is not bad for a 3 yr period". I'm confused. What does this mean. It's $17.1 MILLION handed out to Rock County farmers in the three year period from 2003-2005. That should be a crime!

Life. Your figures may be correct, however it doesn't take into account fed tax paid by employees of farms. $300,000 is not bad for a 3 yr period. Wait till the next two years come out I bet that number will be the other way. No matter what I say you will always want the last word. I just hope you change you log in name, you don't seem friendly at all. I see you have spent a lot of time on the farming issue, maybe you should step back and look at how the government wastes your money in worse ways.

WOW You are really against farmers and would rather starve. Federal tax is not the only tax we pay. I'm tired of your narrow minded view have a good live.

The tax rebate check, if I get one, is MY MONEY. That is money that I have already paid into the government. The farm subsidy/welfare check farmers get is also MY MONEY(see previous definition of Welfare). According to the Environmental Working Group figures, in the years 2003-2005 Rock County farmers alone received $17.1 million dollars in direct payment benefits. Rock County Farmers did not pay anywhere near that figure in federal taxes! $16.8 million of the $17.1 million was paid to farmers for corn and soybean subsidies. And why do we see field after field of corn and soybeans as we drive around the countryside? Because that's what the government pays for. Call or write your representatives and demand that you be allowed to keep more of YOUR MONEY!

So will you give your check from the government back in May? I think not. Our farm is large, however it is still a family farm. You should look up the definition of subsidy = a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public. (websters dictionary) I have wasted enough time trying to explain why farmers take subsidies with you. Obviously you will never consider the other side and that is the real problem with people these days. No, I will not thank you for our gov payments, because we pay taxes just like everyone else. Maybe you should start thanking the American farmer for having one of the safest food supplies in the world.

And there lies the real problem. The entitlement mentality that this country has come to know so well. "If they get it I should get it too"! How about if you take responsibility for yourself and turn down the welfare check when it comes? Or collect the welfare and drive down the road to the poor family farm trying to raise a few animals and hand the check over to them. Your Welcome!

The definition of welfare does not fit farm subsidies, in that most farms are able to support themselves. Go ahead and take away the payments, however if all your nieghbors are taking them then why not take them yourself. Also as a large farm we pay property tax, soc sec, medicare, income tax, and various other taxes (ss & Medicare are double that of an Individual). So don't think for a minute we don't pay our share of taxes. After these comments I will not waste my time with someone who is bitter toward the American farmer.

Definition of Welfare from Wikipedia:

"Welfare (financial aid), financial assistance paid by taxpayers to people who are unable to support themselves, cf. Workfare, an alternative model requiring recipients to participate in work-rehabilitation programs,
Corporate welfare, a pejorative describing a government's bestowal of money grants, tax breaks, or other special favorable treatment on corporations."

We won't starve because we get farm subsidies...
Oops I mean farmers won't starve cause farmers get farm subsidies...

"Without the subsidy, we would be financially sound."?? So don't take the handout! Tell your representative you want your portion to go to the small family farm so they don't have to sell everything they have worked hard to build. Problem solved!

Them agin us...them agin us...Ohh please

well said tracymi, but unforunatly they will alway say what they keep saying and we will have to defend ourselves till our dying day. It will take this country starving to death to really appreciate what large and small farms do for this country.

Don't even compare the welfare system to farm subsidies. As a larger crop farm in Rock County, we have discussed numerous times the down falls with the government subsidy program. Without the subsidy, we would be finacially sound. But you need to understand the subsidy program is all relative to production. And yes- this is where your large farmer will receive more money but they are also producing more and subsequently are carrying more debt. I would love to figure out some way where we could help out the smaller farmers because they too contribute to our economy and our agricultural productivity. Unfortunately there is no easy solution and handing out money shouldn't be the answer. Our family hit the hard economic times of the early 80's and lost half of what they had. It has taken us 20+ years of hard work to get where we are and we still aren't where we were back then. All I have to say is don't judge and point your finger at the larger farmers. Plus if we were really raking in the cash off the subsidies, I'm wondering why I'm not somewhere warm right now missing all this snow and why my husband is stuck in our office at the farm not able to get home to our family. He may only cash crop but in order to pay the bills, out farm has had to diversify and create other ways to make income during our "down" time. Yup- its a year round job for us too!

Farms are a business...I have seen many small and medium businesses close with the owners losing it all. I have seen people lose their retirement pensions and investments.
deweeze is hung up on the compassion and...no one can possibly get it until they've lived it. Do you get all worked up whenever you see a family business close like you talk about with farms??? Or do you not get it cause you did not put in the 90-100 hour weeks and tens of thousands of dollars of your money in these family businesses.

Yes I have "watched a farm family sell everything they have worked hard to build". This is exactly why the small family farm needs more of the Farm Subsidy money that is going to the large crop farmers/corporations. I'm all for helping the little guy(family farm). The problem is there aren't many left because the way the Farm Subsidy system is set up you have to get big to stay in farming. The more land you run, the more crops you grow, the more money you get from the government. Like I said previously. What happens when there is only a handful of large corporate crop farmers running all the land?

The gov't has been on a farm-family destroying mission for a good 30 years now.

deweeze, what you say is true..but the ones getting all the agriwelfare are not the same ones that are selling out.

Society is so removed from where thier food comes from and always getting what they want when they want it they don't understand farming. I really doubt many of you have watched a farm family sell everything they have worked hard to build. The tears in those eyes tell the whole story whether they were rich or poor. Until one has done that or lived it no one can understand what it truely means to live a farming life.

If the farmer doesn't make a profit. The government gives them money. Don't let a farmer fool ya. They are always getting subsidies from the government.

"farming is a way of life and a lifestyle". The last part is exactly what is said about those on the welfare system. I'm not saying farming isn't difficult. I too have family members and friends who are farmers. That's probably what bothers me most. I see too close the haves and the have nots. Farm Subsidies are not the only government program that should be eliminated. There are many many more. Maybe if the farmer could keep more of their personal income they wouldn't need Farm Subsidies. But how would you ever get the large crop farmers to ask for or accept changes? Would those on welfare ask for it's elimination?

Deweeze, I think you should reread my posts. I did not make statements that show I don't get it. I am from a farming family history and have many friends who farm.
My posts were in relation to your judgemental attitude toward the "city slickers".
My reaction was to your judgement of city people.

benthinkin, what you do not get is farming is a way of life and a lifestyle. It is in a farmer's blood. It's not just another job. Most farm because they love what they are doing. They do not do it because of the pay nor do they enjoy having to give up all the "extra's" in life. It is people like you who think they get it all for free and are rich because of what they see along the roadsides that make the farmers annoyed and upset. Don't judge a man unless you walk a mile in thier shoes. I have walked in both sets shoes and I will side with the farmer each and everytime. Stop biting off the hand that feeds you and start giving them the pat on the back they need and deserve to continue.

Officerfriendly- if you understood the whole farm process and they way government subsidies work, you would have a leg to stand on. And as for organic- it would be nice if we could all farm that way but lets face it- its not practical for us. There are too many places where our crops go- food, clothes, different by-products we use everyday.... and there is no way we could keep up with the demand based on the FEWER bushels organic produces. If you think prices are high right now, see what going organic would do to that price... up, up and away!

And again about the prices. It's all relative. We may be getting a higher price right now, but inputs costs have risen atleast 25-50% so really that "extra" we should be making with the price is actually going to pay for the increased input prices. This goes the same for any producer who raises animals. If you saw how many pounds of feed it takes for one dairy cow to get a pound of milk and translate that into cost vs. income, you would truly understand.

And by the way, government subsidies are not a guarantee especially with the price increases which is good. Their true intentions are to help the ag industry when prices are down but yet costs are still high. And really, farmers don't get anymore tax breaks or incentives than your businesses. We are all in the same boat- paying taxes and trying to survive! Unfortunately its a game we all have to play no matter what your views are.

Heres something that irks the hell out of me.

"Not only are subdivisions popping up in places that used to be pig farms, new neighbors don’t always like living near the farms"

Lets me see, the farm was there FIRST and people bitch about the farm's smell after they build a house next to it. Well someone should had thought about whats in the area BEFORE building a house in the country. Thats about as bad as building a home at the end of a runway and whining about the noise planes make, or building next to the interstate, next to a race track, rifle range, shopping center, factory, school, etc. It just amazes me how brain dead people can be.

Lets think a minute. If I were on food stamps would I be praying for a true conservative third party? No, I would be a Democrat!

hey officer if your plate is bare then get a job. that way your plate can be full instead of living of gov. subsidies like food stamps.

Officerfriendly stated: "Until we establish a true conservative third party in this country that will stand up for the little guy and not listen to special interest groups(i.e. large crop farmers/corporations)nothing will change."

Well said! Poor farmers my eye...dairy prices are at an all time high - corn is doing quit well...sure are there a handful of small cash croppers struggling a bit...probably, but not that bad...they get paid when they succeed and they get paid when they fail. The rest of us do not have it so well. Oh...and that whole "stewards of the land" nonsense is just that nonsense! The vast majority of our run off issues (primarily phosphorous) and well contaminations (nitrogen and bacteria "e-coli") can be attributed primarily to non-point agricultural sources. Some farmers are are truly great stewards of the land (and thank you to them)...however many more are not!

So deweeze, let's see if I get this right. Farmers are drastically overworked, underpaid, under-appreciated, and yet the "city slickers" are the ones who don't get it???
When a city slicker feels all of that, they just go out and get anoether job/career. But then again, I guess farmers don't get that...

"Farmers pay the same taxes you do"?? What are the taxes these days on an acre of farm land? I don't think it's anywhere near what I pay per acre. Large crop farmers/corporations receive tax breaks, tax incentives and Farm Subsidies. What's left for the little guy? How about we all just hand all of our money over to the government and wait for that government check to arrive in the mail. Can you say Socialism? This country needs a revolution! The sad thing is it won't make a bit of difference who wins the upcoming presidential election. The Republicrats and Demicans won't change a thing. Until we establish a true conservative third party in this country that will stand up for the little guy and not listen to special interest groups(i.e. large crop farmers/corporations)nothing will change.

hmmmmmmmmm wonder how much the goverment has to do with officerfriendly's job and how much our taxes lines his pocket with his wage. With his name I have a feeling it does or did at one time. And just as a reminder offericerfriendly........ Farmers pay the same taxes you do........ your preachin to the choir on that tax song and dance

Thanks tracymi for your backup. City slickers just don't get it sometimes. Most of them would not be able to surive 6 months let alone a whole year on a farmer's wage or work load.
And to those that are against ethanol made from corn, to late. Its been done for years. Read your food labels. Corn ethanol is in many foods you eat and drink. The fuel they make from it is just getting more popular and rightly so.

"thank a farmer for the food you eat! Without them our plates would be bare" My plate is bare! That's my whole point. If the government would get out of my pocket(i.e. Farm Subsidies) than I could afford to fill my plate. It sure seems like the "poor" crop farmers are living in much nicer houses, driving nicer vehicles and taking more vacations than I am. I'm not against farming I'm against Farm Subsidies. Get the government out of the picture and let the market take care of itself. Maybe instead of all this corn and soybeans that is being shipped overseas for huge profits farmers could start an organic vegtable farm and sell their product locally to consumers. But of course that would mean more work and less profits so who would want to do that? Have you noticed the large crop farmers are a lot like teachers? When you question farming, it's all about the food. When you quesiton teachers, it's all about the kids. Face it folks. It's all about THE MONEY! And I for one would like to keep more of mine.

officerfriendly1- I challenge you to work and run a farm. We'll see how far you get with making a profit. Deweeze gave an excellent overview of what farmers have to pay in order to maybe earn a profit for which your family can live off of.

Our family runs a large (2,000+ acre) cash cropping farm. Even though we don't have any animals, we understand what fellow farmers who do raise livestock are going through. Unfortunetly we have NO CONTROL over what our inputs cost or what price we will get for our crops even when we do forward contract since obviously we are not setting the prices. And like the majority of farm families, I am the spouse who works off farm so we can have REASONABLE costing health insurance, benefits and STABLE income to pay the bills for our family. I work for a company where about 95% of our customers are farmers. I see what they pay in expenses and I see what they gross for income.... and lets say when you break down how many hours they work in a year versus their income, the hourly wage is really not all that great. So I salute the individuals who decide to get into farming and those who weather the economic storms.

PS- thank a farmer for the food you eat! Without them our plates would be bare.

I never understood why they wanted to make fuel out of a food. Corn is in everything and it's driving the price up on just about every food. And just think there are lawmakers in Madison and Washington that want to mandate this stuff. You think the price of corn is high now. Just want until they get the mandate through.

This is exactly why ethanol should NOT be made from corn. It should be made from sugar cane or prairie grass. It is time to get the corn producing lobbiest out of Washington so we can make the intelligent decision to distill ethanol from grass. We are only hurting other industries and consumers with driving up the price of corn because it in turn has a direct effect on the price of other goods (i.e. pork). Plus if we use prairie grass, we can use land that is not deemed as quality farmland (i.e. the middle of Kansas, and Oklahoma).

Interesting idea, will this means testing be gross income or net? What will the threshhold limit be? What is your definition of rich? Will this be both individual and corporate subsidies or are you just talking farm bill? I'm all for it but the devil is in the details. Remember that the article was about the low price for hogs and that it doesn't make sense to feed high price corn and soy (commodity's) to get a hog (another commodity) to market weight and lose money.

Thanks deweeze, you just gave me an idea. I'm going to write my representatives and ask for a new law. Anyone that receives government handouts should have to disclose their yearly income. It should be public record! Then we'll see who's rich and who isn't.

With ethanol production, here is evidence that it is no free lunch and it looks like BLT's are definitely not on the menu.

Deweeze, your whole post was about money and material things and then you throw in that last statement about farmer vs city slicker. Was that supposed to be an ironic joke of some sort???

Doesn't Sorg's in Darien process hogs? I seem to distinctly recall seeing Sorg's name stamped on the bacon packages I cooked up last week. And isn't that where the pigs from the fair are sent?

officerfriendly1, Have you ever talked to one of those "rich" grain farmers about how much they make in a year? Or how much over head and debt they carry each year compared to yours? You get half your Social Security and Medicare paid for by your employer. Farmers and any self- employed person have to pay ALL of thiers. Just ONE of those big fancy 4 wheel tractors ( and I mean tractor not the Combine or any other piece of equipment) is well over $300,000. Which when they have borrowed the money for it has to be paid off within 5 YEARS not 15 or 30 like your home of the same price. They usually have 2-4 if not more tractors and other pieces of equipment to keep up or replace every few years at the same cost. I won't even go into the realestate taxes they pay on that acreage or the rent they pay. Off-road diesel cost way more then what you are paying for the gas that you put in to your big fancy car and/or truck. And then there is the federal and state income tax they pay at tax time every year that the goverment so kindly takes out of your check each pay period. Lets see, then there is the seed bill, the feritalizer, and the weed killer and insect control. Oh yea lets not forget HEALTH INSURANCE!. Many wives and "rich" farmers have to work OFF the farm to be able to afford that or in some cases to even be able to get Health Insurance. Then you have a right to say they live better then you to on "YOUR MONEY". Oh wait, THEY DO LIVE BETTER THEN YOU BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT THE ENVIROMENT, THE PEOPLE THEY FEED AROUND THE WORLD, THEIR COUNTRY, AND FAMILY. I am a better person for being raised by a "poor farmer" then growing up a city slicker and caring more about material things and money.

Plant hemp everywhere! That alone would solve this problem.

The rich(large crop farmers) get richer and the poor(livestock farmers) get poorer. Something has to be done with the government subsidies program to help the small livestock farmers more. Check out EWG's Farm Subsidy Database at http://farm.ewg.org/sites/farmbill2007/. You'll be amazed at what some large crop farmers received in government subsidies. I have no problem with a farmer making a living but when their making a better living than I am on MY MONEY than that's a problem!