Families in generational poverty form their own culture
Poverty is all Joanne has ever known. She grew up in poverty, and now her children are growing up in it as she struggles to raise them alone.
Life can get bleak for Joanne, but she tries to dwell on the positive. She values entertainment and loves to watch TV and listen to music. Her friends like her because she makes them laugh with her funny stories. Her children have picked up on this trait, and they like to clown, shouting to be heard over the TV and each other.
Joanne doesn’t plan for the future. Why bother? It’s not in her control. When she gets money, she spends it quickly on flashy new shoes for her kids or a night on the town for herself.
Although Joanne is fictional, her family is typical of many in generational poverty, writes Ruby Payne, a speaker and author who studies economic classes.
Payne defines generational poverty as families who have lived in poverty for at least two generations, meaning children of parents in poverty grow up to live in poverty themselves. By contrast, families in situational poverty have fallen into poverty because of a traumatic event such as illness or divorce.
She writes families in generational poverty form their own culture with different values, habits and lifestyles from families in the middle class.
Payne’s work is controversial because it generalizes large groups of people, but Kathie Koebler, a kindergarten teacher at Madison Elementary School in Janesville, said Payne’s theories ring true in her classroom.
Here are characteristics of generational poverty that Payne outlines in the book “A Framework for Understanding Poverty”:
-- Background noise.
The TV is almost always on, and conversations tend to be noisy, with several people talking at once.
This can cause children to be noisy and disruptive in the classroom, Koebler said.
-- Emphasis on entertainment.
“When one can merely survive, then the respite from survival is important,” Payne writes.
Families in poverty value the ability to entertain, tell stories and have a sense of humor.
-- Casual language.
Families in generational poverty have an “oral-language tradition,” meaning they might not know how to speak or write formally.
Often, children of poverty lack language skills needed for school, Koebler said. Their grammar or vocabulary is poor, and no one at home corrects them, she said.
-- Survival orientation.
People who are barely getting by talk about people and relationships, not abstract or academic topics. A job is about making enough money to survive, not building a career.
-- Belief in fate.
Many people in poverty believe destiny and fate control their lives, and they might not think they have a choice about what happens in their lives.
Time.
“Time occurs only in the present,” Payne writes. “The future does not exist except as a word.”
Life is so uncertain for many families in poverty that they don’t see anything as everyday, even work or school, Koebler said. As a result, children miss a lot of school.
A focus on the present also means families in poverty often don’t save for the future, Koebler said. If a parent receives money, he or she might spend it right away on clothes or entertainment and then not have enough money the next week for a field trip or school supplies.
-- Disorganization and disorder.
People in poverty often don’t have the tools to organize their lives, such as planners and files. Their homes are often cluttered.
Teachers often find children leave notes and homework in their backpacks because there’s no safe place to put them at home, Koebler said. The students often lose library books, and they lose their library privileges as a result, she said.
-- Live in the moment.
“Being proactive, setting goals and planning ahead are not a part of generational poverty,” Payne writes. “Most of what occurs is reactive and in the moment.”
Who is Ruby Payne?
Ruby Payne is an author and speaker who studies poverty and economic classes. Her book “A Framework for Understanding Poverty” has sold more than 1 million copies, and she spends more than 150 days a year speaking to groups, according to her Web site.
Payne has been a teacher, principal, administrator and professional consultant since 1972. She first learned about poverty from her husband, who grew up poor, and then from her students. She has a doctorate in educational leadership and policy studies.
She often speaks to teachers looking for ways to help students in poverty achieve, and many of those teachers say she has helped them understand their students better.
Still, Payne has plenty of critics. Some argue her characterizations of the “culture of poverty” are bigoted, overly simplistic and harmful to relations between teachers and students. They charge she relies on anecdotes instead of facts.
But Payne argues her expertise comes from decades of experience. Her Web site, www.ahaprocess.com, touts her accessible style and relevant message.
Apr 19, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.
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And if there isn't one to comment on, you can dig one up from nearly 5 years ago, right frogger?
Apr 19, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.
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oreally- you forgot GM!
Apr 19, 2013 at 2:07 p.m.
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I guess I will never understand why poor people wont pick up their stuff or clean. Seems just lazy to me know we have "research" to back up that being lazy and a slob is okay?! Nice.
Seems if you didn't have a lot it is still yours and you should take care of it.
Nov 30, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
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Carrisford, awesome point!
Nov 30, 2012 at 1:05 p.m.
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One thing children in poverty do well is problem-solve. We have a culture in education where we emphasize what "disadvantaged" children cannot do. Instead, we should focus on what they can. While the children of the wealthier segments of society often go to school reading already, they might have trouble putting on their coats or solving real-life problems (mom's working and you, at five, are watching your siblings, and it's lunch time; these kids can find food and feed their younger siblings, even if it involves cooking it themselves). That's problem-solving, and rather than focusing on what they can't do (read) we should celebrate what they can. We don't penalize the wealthier children for not being good problem-solvers, do we?
Nov 30, 2012 at 7:53 a.m.
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PanamaRed, you can add Obama in his ignorance to the middle class along with Romney neither have a clue what would benefit them. At this day in age there is plenty of outlets and information out there for the poor to help themselves lift up, personal responsibility has to come into play at some point instead of finger pointing. I grew up poor as did both my parents but their work ethic they displayed and passed on to me broke that cycle for us. I have a brother that has chosen not to utilize that work ethic and he is very poor with no ambition to change it, he gets free everything to survive so no incentive, it's pretty simple.
Nov 29, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
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The Gazette can be depended on to run articles on certain favorite topics: welfare recipients, Mercy Hospital, and the Janesville public schools. Oh, and sidewalks come up seasonally.
Nov 29, 2012 at 2:37 p.m.
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As Sigma and Honorfirst prove, a person’s financial status is not a measure of their ability to exhibit insight or empathy. Obviously the environment in which we are raised influences many of our decisions later in life. Individuals growing up during the depression expressed a much different view concerning financial issues than individuals growing up in the ‘50’s. Also, as we witnessed Mitt Romney’s “ignorance” in the ways of the middle-class, so too the impoverished are likely “ignorant” in the ways of amassing wealth. The poor are not stupid but simply lack experience and information. Most would agree that only giving money to the poor is not a solution and actually tends to create more dependence. IMO, we will never eliminate poverty, but because the behavior is learned, with the proper support and training we can provide the necessary tools and confidence that gives those living in generational poverty a chance to break the cycle. Our welfare system should be geared toward offering education and opportunity rather than creating dependence. Poverty is not a political problem it’s a problem that impacts all of society.
Nov 29, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
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I have read Ruby Payne's book " ... Understanding Poverty" too. I came away with the thought that merely lack of money doesn't always indicate generational poverty. Lack of knowledge of how to access the " right" resources such as education is the probem. Again- we're back to the need to include everyone, rich or poor, in our schools.I think we need to reach out to parents living in poverty. Daunting task.
Nov 29, 2012 at 11:56 a.m.
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"Learned helplessness is the giving-up reaction, the quitting response that follows from the belief that whatever you do doesn't matter."
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Nov 29, 2012 at 7:57 a.m.
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onedayatatime, your story is very common with people that get themselves out of the cycle, the ones that have chosen not to resent the successful and sadly treat them the same way they accuse others of treating them for being poor.
Nov 5, 2012 at 9:11 a.m.
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Honorfirst - Well said!
Nov 5, 2012 at 8:32 a.m.
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Interesting article! Unfortunately, I have witnessed this too many times. Compounding the problem is that each generation seems to be a little more dependent on handouts than the preceding one. They learn how to play the system to maximize the benefits they can receive and there seems to be no incentive for them to break out of their dependency on the government. In addition the Democrats are enticing the illegal's to apply for aid so instead of minimizing the problem, they are adding to it. Our current President, Mr. Obama buys votes by redistributing the money we earn and handing it out to the people that look for these handouts. These generous benefits need to stop. We need to get back to the point if you want to live better, you need to improve your lifestyle through education/employment.
Nov 5, 2012 at 6:31 a.m.
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These are the blood sucking leaches that plague our country. I know people like this, they live off the state, have 6 kids, maybe a part time job once in a great while making little to nothing, then quits the job cause its too hard, no work ethic, and always out at the bars or buying new stuff.
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FYI- These people may fall under the catagory of "poverty" by their so called "claimed" income.... but they some how get quite a bit of money. I mean how does one get $7,000 back in tax returns when they barely made that much working? ...And i dont understand how they can get tax returns on welfare based income.
Nov 3, 2012 at 9:12 p.m.
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Living in the midst of it myself ... I do not recognize most of the points in this story. No flashy shoes in this home and ideas and concepts are valued almost as much as how to get to tomorrow. This sounds like someone who set out to prove a theory, not a serious study.
Jan 27, 2011 at 11:50 a.m.
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I understand your point, but the only way to change this behavior is thru education, which leads to higher income. My college educated daughter now has a step daughter that lives with them every other week. Homework is a constant source of conflict. She is being negatively influenced by her mother telling her she doesn't have to do well in school. The mother keeps telling her she can grow up and marry someone who will take care of her, and if not, there are programs for the poor. This child is only in 6th grade (reading at a 3rd grade level) and has already accepted poverty as a way of life and sees nothing wrong with how her mother lives. You are correct in the statement it is a case of generational behavior and morals.
Jan 27, 2011 at 11:06 a.m.
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Please remember this about generational poverty, behavior and moral patterns rather than income level.
There are many families headed by medical students, graduate students, and struggling young lawyers that do not display this type of culture.
Jan 27, 2011 at 10:45 a.m.
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I've lived both sides of this story. The cycle of poverty can be broken. Shopierehuh"Ignorance is curable, but stupidity is not. As a general rule, stupid parents raise stupid children. Some of it is definitely genetic in origin." How true this statement is. I grew up poor but knew a better life was possible. I knew it would require an education. Thru an entitlement program,"Pell grant" I was able to go to college and better my life, I in turn was able to earn enough to put my children thru college, thus breaking the cycle of poverty. The down side is I am now estranged from my birth family. Instead of them being proud of me for going to college I received great resentment. A common comment made to me from my siblings was "You think you are so much better that us now." No, I just wanted a better life.
Nov 15, 2008 at 5:22 p.m.
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The story seems to imply that everyone is intelligent enough to break this pattern of poverty. Of course some are, but some do not have the IQ to raise above this. This is neither good nor bad, but it is true.
Ignorance is curable, but stupidity is not. As a general rule, stupid parents raise stupid children. Some of it is definitely genetic in origin.
What blurs it all is the "Great Society" programs put into effect by LBJ which robs people of incentive to improve themselves, and of course has created generational poverty. In some cases, several generations have now passed since these programs have been in effect and we are seeing the way of life these programs have established for people. The incentive is gone, the government pays for a lifestyle, so it becomes status quo for some.
This is not likely to change anytime soon because the two parties that unfortunately run the joke of a political system in this country need an ignorant, stupid population to perpetuate their strangle hold on American politics.
Aug 26, 2008 at 4:29 p.m.
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"Growing up poor doesn't mean you have to remain poor and ignorant"
upnorth, you hit the nail on the head. Now, please re-read your comments, re-read the articles, and realize that you've summarized, albeit in a negative way, the point of this series.
Do you think Kathy or any of the other participants allowed Stacy to interview them so they could be scolded, belittled, told their worthless, etc? No, they did it because things are slowly getting better for them, there is hope for them, and they want others to know that.
It saddens me that so many commenters on this series have been negative and judgemental. While it may be nice to have never misstepped along the path I wanted my life to take, those missteps have allowed me to grow and I know that I will never take for granted the achievements that I make.
Aug 26, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.
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localboy...thank you!! I made a comment on another page about having children out of wedlock, making bad choices etc. and I was reprimanded! Cycles can be broken, my mother is proof of that. Growing up poor doesn't mean you have to remain poor and ignorant. I'm so tired of people feeling that they are "owed" things by the rest of society. You should be proud of youself, not many can say they owned a home at such a young age, good for you!!!
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:31 p.m.
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HeatherH: thank you for the comment.
Ilovehockey: How about not airing your issues with a particular teacher in a public forum? It smacks of slander.
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:58 p.m.
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ilovehockey, I don't think she's saying it needs to go both ways. She says that she sees the effects in her classroom.
Aug 25, 2008 at 1:49 p.m.
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It's like the old cliche' "If you hang out with dog's long enough, you'll get fleas"
People have been lulled to sleep these days by the corporate driven media. It's real. Mainstream society in this country has been handed this "bull" that it's okay to be average and it's just the way it is. People have been influenced to believe that they'll never get ahead. Why try? Dream? What's that? .....It starts right there! This country was founded on a DREAM. People willing to lay it all on the line for something more. What we have today didn't come free as many new age intellects would love for people like you and me to believe. Everything comes at a price. Success never goes on sale. The problem with the mindset today is the "price" that I'm talking about isn't about a monetary price! It's a personal price. The price of personal growth and wisdom. The price of learning to embrace the changes that are taking place today and applying that wisom along with it to prosper.
Aug 25, 2008 at 1:43 p.m.
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I have to laugh at their "teacher expert". This is the same teacher that told me I was working too much and my child was suffering because of it. Well Mrs K, you can't have it both ways.
Aug 25, 2008 at 12:34 p.m.
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It is very hard to bite my tongue on this situation. I was poor by choice - I bought my first house when I was 21. I bit off more than I could chew, and had to work 3 jobs for over 9 years to keep my head above water. Many weekends I sat home as my young friends were out having a good time. My fancy meals were a can of corn beef hash mixed with a box of Kraft maccaroni and cheese. A 2 night meal for about $1.20. My point is I could hardly take care of myself, let alone a wife or kids. This is the reason I kept my zipper up and didn't spread my DNA around half of Rock County. My biggest beef is not poverty by situations often not under your control (layoffs, major injury, etc.)it is poverty (generational) by life, and then we continue to father, mother more children we KNOW we can't take care of properly. We make it somebody elses responsibility (welfare, foodstamps, section 8 etc)to prop us up. That is income distribution hidden under the term assistance. I am a softie for the elderly because they have lived a life of sacrafice and giving, and I think it is time for me to give it back. But not young, able, and mentally functional individuals.
Aug 25, 2008 at 11:47 a.m.
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downunderdingo-I think they changed the assets test when they reformed welfare in the 90's so people living with generational poverty grew up with those "rules" about savings. The "culture" of poverty was formed when those rules applied.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:39 a.m.
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I don't want to be accused of "attacking", but why isn't there some kind of behavior(parenting) requirements/modifications for getting free stuff and money from taxpayers?
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When I have a job and pay taxes to pay for welfare "benefits", I have to configure my behavior and habits to the liking of the boss I'm working for for 40 to 60 hours a week or more ........and I can't watch television at work.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:24 a.m.
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Just want to clear something up...to get public assistance, one can still have assets (money in savings and checking accounts). Assets can only prevent someone from receiving benefits if they are elderly or disabled. You can have thousands of dollars saved, drive a brand-new SUV, and have a 401K and still receive FoodShare. So, to use that as an excuse to not save money is poor reasoning (for those who think that way)
Aug 25, 2008 at 9:34 a.m.
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truth1....Amen to that! One step further:
The generations of parents teaching the future leaders of this country are living in that false reality world now. How can anyone expect a turnaround or a change to take place when the parents aren't even capable of teaching what's right to their children?? We're in a bad place in this culture because "ignorance" is being accepted as "knowledge". Our generations are being dummed down by the garbage media and the lack of leadership today.
Aug 25, 2008 at 9:18 a.m.
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You'll notice one thing repeated in most of the articles on this subject.."the television was on most all of the time"...
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THERE is one reason the cycles don't get broken....constant doses of total unreality being fed to these children day in and day out.
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Aug 25, 2008 at 8:40 a.m.
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I agree with a lot of this. There is definitely a culture of poverty with different ways of thinking and doing things. There is no incentive to save money because they rarely have bank accounts and are often the victim of crime so it seems safer to spend it on something they can get some enjoyment out of for the moment than to save it only to have it taken. Also the welfare program would cut off benefits if they had any significant savings so they actually had a disincentive to saving money which encouraged spending as soon as you got it.
People in generational poverty are usually surrounded by like people...family and friends are living in the same "culture" and that is truly all they know from growing up. I remember a teen I worked with once and I was trying to talk with him about bettering his life and he really didn't understand what I was talking about...he didn't see anything wrong with the chaotic life his single, abusive, alcoholic father was providing for him. That was just life.
Aug 25, 2008 at 5:45 a.m.
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Good points are made in this article. I come from a line of educators and I hear these things all too often in their conversations.
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