RE: Celeric, I do not think that I think I would be above the law the problem is some of our police force and thier families think they are. This officers wife passed my friend on the right side on Pontiac DR. WE all know that is a 2 lane road, 1 lane for each side. Please tell me why she did not get an illegal passing on the right ticket?? I just seen someone else in Jville was ticketed for that last weekend. I think if you are at fault you deserve whatever punishment you are given but lets be fair to everyone! That means giving tickets to officers and their families as well!

Devil, I'm glad you didn't like my last post but I think they area valid questions. If you think sex has no effect on police officers I can cite several cases in grand old Rock County where officers were either terminated, disciplined or forced to resign due to inappropriate sexual activity. Ultimately my "ignorant" questions wouldn't have to be asked if the officer had been cited for a speeding violation in the first place because it WOULDN'T BE NEWS!

Unreasonable adn Imprudent Speed is usually reserved for weather/ environmental crashes. And as pointed out, she was struck by a vehicle who failed to yield.

Just last week there were 3 police cars flying down my street at a high rate of speed with lights and sirens on. About 3 minutes later, another police car came speeding through at the same speed, this time with no lights or sirens. I have yet to figure out why that officer was allowed to do that. How an accident did not happen because of that is surprising to me. This wasn't on wide open Milton Avenue, this was on very narrow, very curvy Morningside Drive. If they are responding to a call and need to exceed the speed limit by A LOT, then they have a right to let other drivers know they are there. Ambulances go by at least once a week at 3 in the morning with full sirens going, which makes no sense to me. You can see the lights for 3 blocks away. But in the middle of the day on a very populated and crowded street, police cars don't need sirens?

reading the comments makes me ask a few questions, 1) have that many of you been arrested and cant accept you actually did something to deserve it? 2) liltiger, do you actually think that if it were you involved that going to jpd and "raising a fit" would change anything? it goes to the whole janesville mindset that i am above the law and the police cant do that to me otherwise i will complain about it until it gets changed. 3) were any of you there, did you see what happened? 5) if you read the story sounds like he hit the squad. so why does everyone continue to write as if she hit him? she made a mistake. the amount that each officer drives and the numerous things they have to pay attention to in and outside of the car besides driving, it can happen, shes human. no one gets on a blog and rips apart the average citizen when they get a speeding ticket or are involved in an accident. finally, state patrol decided not to cite her, not jpd.

Friendly1

Your last post displays your total and complete ignorance of the issue and how investigations, where police are involved, are conducted.

Things that make you go hmmmmm....The JPD officer involved in the crash is a 25 year old female. I wonder what age and sex the trooper is? Can a female officer bat their pretty little eyes to get out of a ticket?

Haeight wrote: "But they are trained to handle their vehicles better than the avg person." Does this mean when Travis Kvapil is back in the area he can drive as fast as he wants on our highways? I'm sure he is trained to drive faster than any police officer. The trooper wrote in his report that the officers speed was a contributing factor in the crash. She should have been cited, plain and simple!

who cares how the cars are set up. as you said cops are trained to drive to a higher level than regular citizens. she should not have been speeding regardless of how "deceptive" her cars setup can be. she still has a speedometer doesnt she? but thats ok shes a member of the glorious JPD, so were all supposed to just sweep it under the rug

Everyone knows or at least understands officers get away with more than the standard citizen. Should their be a double standard no, is there a double standard...

But they are trained to handle their vehicles better than the avg person. Having the privilege of riding in a few cop cars after they were retired, and knowing a few cops I can tell you the quality of parts that go into a squad are better than most cars. The brakes suspension and tires give a deceptive ride to the vehicle. Making it easy to travel fast in comparison to your personal vehicle.

Besides, if you drive around Janesville people driving 10-15mph over the limit seems to be normal. This means that anyone with a little experience driving in town would know to take a couple looks before turning.

Which is why it reverts to whatever reprimand the PD gives. On the job and off the job are 2 different things.

The accident with my friend happened about 2 weeks ago so this is an ongoing problem. Its becoming an injustice to the community. The PD is lucky it happened to a young single woman because if it had been me my husband would have been at the station raising a fit! Hopefully the courts will do something about it when she goes to fight the ticket!

See what happens when it looks like the police get a pass? You can bet what bulldog will say to the next officer he/she receives a citation from. Justice should be blind and police officers should be held to a higher standard.

1st its amazing how many officers are commenting on the situation. of course they're going to back her up. 2nd the boy's ins. should not have to pay anything. he would not have made that decision had her light(at least) were on. 30+ means she was already exceeding the 25mph by 5mph and going well over that. also all officer's are trained to first turn on there lights and sirens when taking any emergency/assistance needed call. dumb move on her part. and school has nothing to do with its common sense on there behalf. and lights can be turned of a block or two before they get there.
and i'm sure she would have got the right of way had her lights been on. and it is a proven fact that cops get away with murder. as examples have been stated. and you all know the JPD governs there own laws and decides what their version of the law is and what they do. and yes i would sue the crap out of the department cuz i'm very close on a few incidents myself. all speeders should be treated the same, even the cops. but if you work for the department in anyway you get a pass that never revoked. and hey devilsadvocate, charge your female freind with being a retard. does that work for you. cuz thats exactly what her brain did it retarded. but to agree on one thing they both should have been ticketed (or not both) and let the court decide. but as i have found out the judges in rock county are the same way. so to sum it up, officer's are to obey the same traffic rules and laws we do, and the know this. they just try and find the things that make it sound like they dont. and if you officer's reading this want the same respect and the love of you community that you dont get anymore. PAY ATTENTION TO THE LAWS YOU BUST ALL OF US FOR.
YOU ARE TO ENFORCE THE LAWS NOT BREAK THEM AND GET AWAY WITH IT. WE AS A CITY EXPECT MORE AND NEED TO SEE THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO DO THE SAME TOWARDS YOUR OWN WHEN NEEDED. YES WE GET AWAY WITH THINGS ALSO(BUT NOT WHEN YOUR WATCHING OR CATCH US. IT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR YOU GUYS TOO.

Haeight wrote: "Everyone needs to learn some patience while driving." You're right. And this applies to the police as well.

Nothing new here. Officers and their wives can get away with being at fault in an accident and somehow not be ticketed. A friend of mine was hit by an officers wife that was clearly in the wrong and my friend was ticked after the off duty officer came to the scene and chatted it up with the on duty officer and his wife for about 30 minutes. Its just not right and not fair to the public to have this happening!

Its common practice for cops to position themselves to assist fellow officers in any situation. If a cop pulls over a car a 2nd cop always drives by. If the car has more than one occupant at least 2 squads stop. If a single cop responds to a disturbance there is always radio confirmation of when the cop arrives and a check after they contact the residents.

So rushing to get there is reasonable. Use of the lights and not sirens you would figure is common sense anytime your doing your duties. But I refer you to Officerfriendly1 post about driving too fast for conditions.

Even in the winter cops are not ticketed for accidents in icy/snowy conditions. Even last year there was a walworth county cop that rear ended a vehicle at a stop sign. I have no idea what form of internal reprimands take place. When officers have these things happen to them. But its not ignored.

I simply refer you to the cause of the accident, and the problem with most drivers, I thought I had time to make my turn. If your in a rush or not paying attention then your a hazard on the road. Just yesterday, a minivan pulled out in front of the car I was in. We were on afton road traveling at 45mph, we were about 50ft from the van when it pulled out in front of us.

There have been countless times the same thing has happened on Milton ave. When your doing 40mph coming into an intersection where you have a green and a person decides to take a right, which sometimes is fine if they stay in their own lane, but they will merge all the way across right in front of you as your crossing the intersection at the posted limit.

To sum it up keep it simple keep it safe, an extra 10 seconds of waiting will not kill you. A snap decision of me 1st can kill you, at the very least delay you a lot longer. Everyone needs to learn some patience while driving.

Its a traffic incodent. Whether it was a cop or not all traffic rules should apply. I didnt see the damage so I cant tell who was more at fault. Where did she hit him? Wherever on the car she hit would determine how much time SHE had to react from seeing him and her speed. Everyone on here is making assumptions without any evidence, pictures, or any knowledge of what the accident looked like.
My guess is she was flying pretty good though to not see him and be able to brake in time. I doubt he would pull out and cut off a cop. She also stated she was on a mission to some place...so.. its pretty obvious.

>>>>But why can't they govern the blue lights and siren to turn on automatically when a certain speed is reached in a squad car<<<<

Because they would turn on when a cop was rushing to lunch and that might be embarassing.

Devil,
Like I said previously. Cite them both and let the courts figure it out. No news then. If you can get charged with a FELONY for throwing a "large stone" at the sheriff's office than I think you could cite someone for imprudent speed in an accident where the driver admits to speeding.

so what u saying officerfrenidly is that the statue 346.57(2) supersedes the one for obeying the posted speed limit so according to u its ok to speed heres a question for everyone bout yeilding if u at a 4 way stop and there is a police car anbulance with lights on post office truck and you who has the right of way accordingy to law

mdbrill,i remember that song. and it is so true. especially in reference to the JPD

N.W.A. has a good song about how I feel about this situation. ---- the Police.

Friendly1

I have never seen that statute charged in a yield from stop sign type accident. With the only offering of speed being the officers own statement of 30+ mph and every third car probably doing that speed, I doubt it would fly if taken to trial. Apparently the State Patrol thought so too, that's why they didn't charge her :)

not to mention she was speeding in a residential area. what about kids playing, or riding bikes? what she did should not be taken lightly. she is supposed to set a positive example and did just the opposite. if she had hit a child would you be defending her speeding then? because that could just as easily be the situation, but thank god it is not.

How about this statute? 346.57(2)
"Reasonable and prudent limit. No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. The speed of a vehicle shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and using due care."

""If she was speeding, and she did admit it, then there is no failure to yield on his part. She forfeited her right away by driving over the posted limit. ""

Absolutely not true. This section applies to uncontrolled intersections only, 346.18 (1). The intersection involved was controlled by a stop sign

If she was speeding, and she did admit it, then there is no failure to yield on his part. She forfeited her right away by driving over the posted limit. Perhaps all vehicles should come equiped with speed guns, so we can tell how fast the vehicles so far away are moving, and then we will know if we have enough time. Cops will do what they want because they can. My neighbor growing up used to ride with his lights and sirens on coming home for lunch, which was an emergency only in his mind.

devilsadvocate- SPEEDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was in a acar accident where a person ran the stop sign to my right and ran right into me. i had the right of way, no stop sign for me. she was ticketed for failure to yield(she admitted running the stop sign), and I got a seat belt ticket. I was crazy enough to be honest and admit to not having my seat belt on and i was ticketed. She admitted to speeding so she should be ticketed. But it wont happen because shes a member of the JPD, shes higher than the law.

plain as day she was speeding she should get a ticket wheather its a mile over the posted speed or 40 miles over speeding is speeding ive known people that were ticketed for 2 miles over yes most cops will give u 5 but they dont have to another thing was this a residenal area where kids play in front lawns what about the kids saftey cops do need to obey the law andset the example for the citizens let we see them speed make illegal turns fail to use their signals etc let we would be ticketed for it just because you have a badge doesnt mean your above the law

Devilsadvocate,
If both drivers had been cited, for the courts to decide guilt or innocence, this article probably would not have even been written. It's news when an officer doesn't receive a citation because people want to know why. As to "Show me one instance where an average citizen, who had the right of way, was charged with speeding in this type accident. It just doesn't happen." Yes you are probably right. But police officers should be held to a higher standard. It's really not that difficult to do the black box analysis. Possibly her administration will have it done prior to handing down discipline. Maybe it should be standard procedure in all police officer involved crashes.

mymaro

Show me one instance where an average citizen, who had the right of way, was charged with speeding in this type accident. It just doesn't happen. Chapter 346.03, Applicability of rules of the road to authorized emergency vehicles, does not have a penalty section. See 346.17. Hence an officer can't be charged with not using red lights and siren specifically.

Keeping that in mind what would you suggest she be charged with?

devilsadvocate, you must drink that "cops can do no wrong" juice to huh? the article doesnt say 30 mph it says 30+. its people like you that just sweep it under the rug if its a cop, and that is part of why they can get away with anything is people like you. Lets be fair and do the same for a cop breaking the law as you would a regular everyday joe breaking the law

Officer Friendly1

I was referring to your suggestions that accident reconstruction, black box analysis, GPS etc be used. It would not typically be done for a property damage only accident. These things are more usually reserved for serious injury/death accidents. The duty to yield from a stop sign is fairly absolute. Dammen was lucky not to have been cited.

The internal is more punishment than a speeding ticket, which still could be issued as part of the discipline.

If she was going to back up an officer that had requested emergency assistance then she should have had her emergency lights and siren on. Was this an emergency situation? The article doesn't specify. I have to assume that it wasn't if she was responding without emergency equipment activated.

There is a big difference between the general public speeding and an LEO backing up another officer who is dealing with some unruly citizen.

So when it's a police officer involved in an incident we better not ask any questions? The police should be held to a higher standard. This is exactly when questions should be asked. I'm sorry if it's not "friendly" to ask what 30+ means? The trooper indicated in his report that Thompson's excess speed was a contributing factor in the crash. I would just like to know how fast she was going. 31, 32? I could understand no citation. 40, 50, 60? A citation should have been issued. Way too often officers, mostly new officers, drive way too fast when responding to routine calls for service that do not require emergency lights and sirens. What good are they if they don't get to the call at all because they were involved in a crash?

Officer Friendly1....Your rantings aren't sounding too friendly :)

This was a relatively minor accident, no injuries. It's reasonable to believe the officers statement of 30 mph. GPS black box etc would seem a bit of overkill, since most traffic in the area is probably doing 30 or better. Dammen had a responsibility to yield to any vehicle on the through street going 25 or 30, citizens car or police vehicle, for that matter.

Nobody likes it when a cop speeds, unless they are the persons who needs the help and then ask why it takes so long for the cops to get there!!!

"A nearly impossible thing to prove unless the driver admits to it."?? Isn't determining speed one of the reasons for doing accident reconstruction? Did they pull the "black box" from the squad which would have shown her exact speed at the time of impact? What about GPS? Most squads in Rock County have GPS tracking units. Are they able to determine speed from GPS? What does 30+ mean? 40? 50? 60? 100?

Everyone says the cops should be treated the same as everyone else...Translation...the cops should be cited for every little infraction...because when they ARE treated like everyone else in regards to getting the same breaks as many citizens...we are not happy.
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Can everyone spell HYPOCRITE?

officers of the law do not need to obey the laws let if we break the law they their to give out tickets or arrest us we are no longer living in the land of the free home of the brave when we have the gestapo here in the united states let the officers need to be held for their actions wheather its speeding making illegal u turns or entrapment just to arrest someone officers dont even need a search warrant anymorwe all they have to say its probale cause we as citizens need to take our country back from the police and the crooked politicans

You're right Villajanesville. If they hadn't printed this story I wouldn't have mentioned it at all. That happens a lot I guess. They write a story and I comment on it. I don't often comment on stories that aren't written. just a quirk of mine I guess.

crazy drunk drivers

as we should be villa. THEY ARE COPS!!!!!!!!!! They ticket us if they see us speeding or whatever else. but now its OK for them to do it. Thats bull.

I see cops screaming down Rockport Road quite often without lights or sirens.

I'm with sony. It the police car is running silent and dark (no siren or lights) then it should be treated like any other vehicle and the driver held accountable for their actions as any other driver.

There are rare occasions that would excuse a police officer from speeding while running silent, this wasn't one of them.

If you want to break the laws of the road, turn on your lights and siren so everyone can avoid you. This officer needs to be given a citation for speeding.

Once again those that are supposed to show the highest of moral standards and responsibility get let off the hook. This day in age I fear the police more than I respect and trust them.

Has Dammen obtained counsel? I would imagine he will be suffering from anguish, pain, an inability to drive without fear of being hit by Janesville police.....

Is this worth a 6 figure settlement? Mid 5s?

A cop doesn't need to be given the right of way anymore than anyone else unless the sirens and lights on the car are in use. How fast was she REALLY going, 30+ my butt. That is open to 31 mph to as fast as the car can go.

i got hit by an ambulance once that blew threw a red light. i got ticketed with failure to yield the right of way because because you ALWAYS need to yield the right of way to an emergency vehicle. stop twice if ya want, but thats one way theyre never at fault, cuz they can just tag you with failure to yield the right of way to an emergency vehicle.

"Dammen failing to yield the right of way."
Um, what?

"Dammen said he stopped at the stop sign, looked both directions, saw a car approaching from his left but felt he had enough time to make a left turn onto Lexington Drive--"

Sounds to me like he yielded the right away to me. He thought he had enough time, but you cant always judge a persons speed. ESEPCIALLY WHEN THE OTHER PERSON IS A COP SPEEDING WITHOUT LIGHTS ON. You can bet if she does it in a cop car, she does it in her personal vehicle.
This is so backwards. So much for improving JVP's image with the community. Now it just says "We can break the law, and you'll foot the bill for us!" What idiots.

Different state, same situation, a very dear friend was killed under the same circumstances.
Officer was not using lights or siren and T-boned a car in the intersection. No citation was issued to police and my friend got killed. City street, posted 25 mph, estimated mph for the police car 40 mph.

Probably 90% of people involved in yield type accidents, who have the right way, as the officer did, are traveling more than 25 mph. A nearly impossible thing to prove unless the driver admits to it. I applaud the officers honesty in the matter. I agree with the state patrol no citation is warranted. An ordinary citizen, who had the right of way initially and was going 30 mph, wouldn't be cited either. As a footnote a Winnebago County, IL deputy traveling over 100 MPH without red lights and siren, strikes a vehicle killing 2 and permanently injuring another, was recently found NOT guilty by a jury. So go figure.

if she was just speeding for no reason its one thing. but she was on her way to assist. should she have had her lights on?? yes. i bet next time she turns them on:)

For all of you saying the cop was lying about speed and blah blah blah, how about the kid lying about stopping? Maybe he just yielded at the sign and thought he could gun it to make the turn. You don't know what really happened in both their heads and at the scene of the accident. The only two people who do are the two that were there. So get over it. It wasn't one persons fault any more than the other and it would be nice if people always gave the cops the right of way so they could do their job to the best of their ability.
And NO, I'm not a cop.

I realize that cops receive extensive training in how to do their job. But I have to question how somebody can enforce the law when they can't even follow it themselves? Rarely do I ever see a JPD unit following the posted speed limit (or other traffic laws). Also, I've witnessed them nearly running down a mom and her stroller attempting to cross the road. It sounds like similar circumstances - In this case the cop slowed just enough to see if the intersection was clear (controlled by stop signs) and then proceeded to gun it. The mother was attempting to cross at the next block (short distance between the two) - which resulted in her having to run (as best she could with a stroller) out of the way. In this case the lights or sirens weren't on either. I was on my bike and couldn't catch the unit number - otherwise I would have called it in. I'm really surprised they haven't hit and killed someone yet. Maybe this will be a wake up call.

ONLY THE POLICE CAN GET AWAY WITH THAT KIND OF CRAP.

I agree the officer should have gotten a ticket,BUT the state patrole made that call,GO FIGURE,and the kid gets the shaft, they have rules on going to call's and the officer did not follow the rule's.the officer being disciplined is a personnel matter,BULL the cop hit a car and not haveing the emergency lights on in public,that is not personnel,it is negligence.

If she was going to assist another officer making a traffic stop and she was speeding, she should have had the squad car lights and siren running. If it was a case where they didn't want the person who had been stopped to know reinforcements were on the way, I can see perhaps only having the lights on and not using the siren.
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Book her Danno!

Maybe some of you should go to school and become an Officer. Maybe then you will know what they can and cannot do.......

Maybe the situation she was headed to was one that would be better approached WITHOUT lights and sirens?

sorry for Mathew Dammen he has to pay for the cop hitting him, and we have to pay for the cops car who likes to make her own rules to follow ~

Here is the kicker question. Did Matt get a ticket for failure to yeild right of way as they reported. If the police officer didn't get a ticket than I think Matt should not get one either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

how do they govern lights turning on at a certain speed and what is it? 35 in town would turn their lights on while driving 45 on a country road, or 65 on the interstate, how does the car know what an emergency speed is for that road. thats not a feasable option with all the training they receive they should be able to flip a switch, she should have gotten a speeding ticket without a doubt, going to help another officer or not she needed her lights and siren on she could have killed someone who thought they had enough time to pull out but because she was probably going 40-45 got to the intersection faster than anticipated.

30+, You can bet she underestimated her speed, what is 30+ anyway...I agree she should've been ticketed

I wonder if the state patrol was able to estimate the officer's speed, or if that information was simply left out of the article.

Cited for what? Going 5 over. There's not a person in this would that wouldn't mad if they got cited for going 5mph over the limit!!!

Shoulda goda ticket.

In the Mindy Erickson case in Stevens Point, the deputy who hit her car in similar circumstances will face trial next month.
http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/apps/...
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I'm sure the fact that nobody was hurt and both drivers being partially at fault factored into the state patrol recommendation.

Officer, Amber Thompson should get a citation.
she was exceeding the speed wiht no emergency equipment on. Must be nice to be a cop and break the law.