I would like to know if this young man had insurance and if he the police first took him to an ER for medical clearance? I ask this because if he had insurance he would likley have ended up going for inpatient treatment. Also if the police first took the young man for eval at an emergency room the ER social worker would have likely assisted in placement and there would have had to have been a consult between the ER doctor and the psychiatric doctor before the pt could be transfered out of the ER and onto crisis.
For those of you who are not aware Rock County closed the Rock County Health Care Center which
had inpatient psych beds. Crisis routinely sent suicidal patients there. Now people are asking why the crisis worker sent this young man home. The answer is simple, the County approch to mental health patients is to get them out of the system if possible and avoid Rock County having to eat the bill for the uninsured. Because Rock County no longer has it's own psych hospital we have to contract beds at hospitals in other counties. We have 4 hospitals in Rock County and only Mercy offers in patient psych and detox, unfortunately they do not have enough beds to service the need in Rock County and they often refuse admissions that are complex. The crisis workers and their supervisors are not at fault in this they are simply providing service in a county where mental health services are not as important as buget and taxes. Providing services to the mentally ill costs money that is true but there is also a cost when people die because money was considered more important. We get what we pay for and since we did not want to pay for quality services we have a mental health system that is equal to a fast food diet, it fills the hole but is not good for us and over time can kill. All of Rock County has a piece of responsibility in the death of these 2 young people hopefully e can learn from this tragidy and improve our broken system.

And if any of you follow JohnDoe's recommendation to contact your state lawmakers about "victim friendly" laws, please put your 2 cents worth in for parity laws in health care. This would require insurance companies and others to fund treatment for chemical dependency and mental illnesses just like any other medical problem.

Here's a suggestion...now that this issue is at the forefront...why don't all of you fired up do gooders contact your state representatives and senators to make the laws more victim friendly...rather than wait until a tragedy occurs and then do nothing but piss and moan about it? Just a thought.

I may be wrong, but why wouldn't they treat this like a domestic dispute, the person doesn't have contact with the other (spouse) for 72 hr. cooling off period. Everyone in the field needs to learn from this unfortunately so it won't happpen again. Just so sorry that it had to happen to this young couple with their lives ahead of them.

try2binformed: was that support or not?

Prevention: You are a sister/brother. The lack of education and accurate information on this topic, and sadly many others, is pathetic to say the least. It's hard to digest the ignorance and lack of the acceptance of reality that is displayed in so many of the comments on the "news of the day".

Voice your opinion, but do so after you know what you're talking about. That's how things change. Don't worry, it takes just a little bit of effort to get the facts. Knowledge is power. Use it!

Please try2binformed.

Unless you have worked long enough in the field of mental health to know the difficulties or you have mental health issues yourself, criticizing the system is useless. You have got to understand the protocol that must be followed.

I agree, not all cities, counties or states are the same in how they handle mental health crises. Nor are all cases of mental health the same. Unfortunately, the budgets and societal stigmas really stink in this country as a whole.

So, please, before you criticize the system, educate yourself first!

fgb_dmk: I AM talking about Walworth Co. Because they didn't have an in-house facility to treat these people, they contacted Rock County, who at that time took referral patients. On two occasions, the Walworth Co. crisis worker talked to the Rock Co. worker, who surprisingly, told me the same thing. By the way, Walworth Co. is now training law enforcement to use the PC system because it will achieve the same results as the ED (NOT).

It's not counties-it's the budgetary system the state and counties are required to follow based on legislative budget constrictions. I don't understand why so many commenters think one one county or city is different than another. We all follow the same laws. It's the BUDGET! If society wants the service, it will pay for it. If not, it won't! Traffic enforcement, OWI enforcement, nuisance problems, animal problems, sexual predators-the list goes on. If you want it addressed, be prepared to pay for it. Pretty simple-nothing is free.

Society is the boss, don't be afraid to use the power you have as a citizen.

try2beinformed....My opinion on "what will it be" SPEND THE MONEY !!! No one should ever be turned away from any kind of health care because they can't afford it or don't have insurance .

If someone on here works for Walworth county, please explain to Rock County how you do things. I have worked in both counties and can tell you that Walworth county places citizens under emergency detention way more frequently. If someone states any intentions to harm themselves or others, they are usually always placed under a 72 hour hold. They are transported to an acute detox center if under the influence or are taken to a psych facility, such as Rogers in Milwaukee. This is done without difficulty in Walworth County.

Now if you are in Rock or Jefferson, it is a different story. You can actually try and committ suicide by overdosing or physically harming yourself, and if you just say "I feel better now," you can go home. I have had patients that I knew were very sick and needed pysch help. They tried to hurt themselves, but when they were interviewed by human services from the county, they lied that they were better, and just like that were sent back home.

Walworth county doesn't take any crap and take threats very seriously. If you even hint that you have thought about suicide, kiss the next three days goodbye, because you will be going somewhere to get help. I believe these policies are in place for patient safety and also liability reasons.

It's a shame these other counties can't figure it out!!

I try very hard to keep subjective feelings out of my limited posts. This one borders on my guideleines.

Many times I've placed a person under emergency detention (ED) as a police officer. They've verbally expressed their desire to harm themselves or others. The facts clearly demonstrate their desire to do so. Physical and/or testimonial evidence from others have corraborated their desire. The presence of alcohol is, almost as a pre-requisite, present. After being taken into custody they are brought to what is commonly referred to as crisis intervention. I was astounded that on more than half of these incidents the crisis intervention worker informed me that it would be better to place the person under "protective custody". This means that the person is unable to care for himself/herself due to alcohol incapcitation. I refused because alcohol incapictation is far and away removed from threatening to kill oneself. Each time when I refused and insisted he/she was a threat of harm to self or others, I was told that if I went along with their recommendations they would perform a psychiatric evaluation to address the threat of harm, but if I continued with the straight emergency detention no such evaluation would be conducted. This is ridiculous and I need not address it further.

I found out later the reasons were purely monetary. PC's (protective custody due to alcohol incapcitation) are tremendously cheaper than ED's (emergency detentions). In an effort to decrease the costs, there are some phsychological conducted during PC's. They are not the same, however, and are not designed to be.

The end result is always the same. It's money! If taxpayers want money spent on a service, they will support it and the legislators who happen to be in office. If they do not want to support it, it will languish.

It is society's decision - what will it be?

downunderdingo, being wacked out enough that an officer takes you to RCHC for a protective custody detention rather than jail is a good sign. Attempting suicide, suicidal ideation, and verbal expressions indicating your intent to commit suicide is another. Buying a gun, and creating a lame excuse for it is one more. 100's of texts is a red flag of a problem. Possessive personality bordering on manipulative harassment is one more indicator. Flipping out on your wife, having the police called, and taking a trip to the healthcare center based on officer observation is a good start. All of this took time to develop. I am sure he was not this way when the couple met, nor was he this way when they were married. Something happened that created the change in behavior. The officer spent more than 35 minutes at the house. The wife spent more than 35 minutes with the husband. The intake worker, who is trained to pick up on, or draw out clues only needed to flip a coin to return the same verdict. That could have really cut the time down from 35 minutes. What an insult to the officer

And by the way, a SAFETY PLAN?????? that the patient signs???? WHAT A JOKE..........

I have seen this same situation happen time after time in my work experience. To tell ya the truth, it is very HARD to get help for someone. Those of us who work in a related healthcare field know this situation all to well. To tell you the truth, Rock County absolutley needs to re evaluate services for these types of patients and quit saying "no money in the budget". So sorry to those of you who disagree, however, I feel there is definatley BLAME on the part of those called in to intervene who release these patients after a very short period of time........

trytobeinformed....MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I hate it when someone doesn't obtain their knowledge from actual experience, instead from a grudge or anger.

I am just guessing here, but I am wondering if any of these blamers of society are also abusing the system of welfare. They both seem to go hand and hand. No responsibility for themselves, it is ALWAYS someone else's fault. The guy snapped, help was saught, the outcome wasn't favorable. If he had been held for 72 hours, who's to say that the dealth report would just have been three days later? 72 hours isn't a magical amount of hours that will correct a mental condition. And after that 72 hours, if the holdee acts in a responsible way, and refuses to admit they are any longer suicidal, he/she WILL be released with the request of a follow up with a counselor. Done. And in the mean time, the person either gets a "wake up" call, and seeks help, or continues down the path of destruction and just makes sure the job is done before he/she can be stopped next time. There is no blame here. So, please stop trying to find someone to place blame on. I don't even blame Shaun, he was ill, and wasn't himself. I am certain in a healthy mind, he wouldn't have committed these action, assuming he is the one who did the shooting. Let's remember they haven't yet released the shooter's name....so once again we are speculating.

Imurrel: Considering you allegedly work in the arena, it would be comforting if you knew the law. There is no mandatory 72 hour hold. The state has UP TO 72 hours to file a formal petition with a court of competent jurisdiction seeking to commit the person for further evaluation. The patient can be released at any time prior to the 72 hours as long as a properly trained doctor certifies he/she is no longer a threat to himself or others.

Do yourself and the public a favor by not presenting erroneous information. These situations are difficult enough without having to add to media-created sensationalism.

My thoughts exactly. Case by case. And none of us knows what that case was unless we were directly involved. Let's stop speculating.

Karen, no wonder you USED to work in crisis. You obviously don't know the laws. But nice job at blaming people all by a couple of paragraphs in a newpaper. Bravo.

And those that want to blame the county workers, saying you get what you pay for, why don't you take a closer look at what the county workers make, see that they ask for more money and help, get a small 2 percent raise, while the administrator gets 16 percent.

And you're all the same people who would be crying a river if they would have held him for 72 hours without cause, violating his civil rights. Unfortunately, these people can not see into the future, and from what everyone is saying about this guy, he has no history of violence towards himself, his wife, or anyone. What happened it a tragedy, but the blame going around is pretty typical of today's society.

This is for downunderdingo, WHAT???? He told only his wife so it shouldn't have mattered if crisis intervention wasn't told. Maybe they should have spoke with his wife and found out what was happening to him. I'm sure she would have gave up that serious of information. There is no excuse for how this was handled. Only evaluated for 35 minutes and then let go, they should have been more attentive to his needs. Maybe the person who evaluated him couldn't see it, but maybe someone else (another crisis employee) could have. Atleast 2 or 3 people should be involved in the assessment of an individual. (from the article) "If the person is not in immediate danger, a crisis worker talks to the person by telephone or face-to-face and refers the client to outpatient treatment. The client signs a safety plan agreement that’s drawn out between the client, the crisis worker and—whenever possible—the spouse, Luster said." (end of Lusters comments) Another WHAT??? Signing a piece of paper for someone who is mentally disturbed and not thinking straight is really a crock and how do you do that when it is over the phone? What a mixed up article!

Why are people always needing to blame someone? Unless you were present when he was evaulated, you don't know what happened. In order for someone to be taken into custody, they need to clearly pose a danger to themselves or others. He would have had to tell someone he was not feeling safe--just telling his wife is not enough. So, unless Shaun told the person evaluating him that he had thoughts of harming himself or others, and he was still released, no one is to blame. Working with the mentally ill is not black and white--the right decision is not always right in front of your face. Should we blame counselors or psychiatrists every time a patient commits suicide? What good is it to point fingers? Some things cannot be prevented, no matter how hard we try. We should be thankful that Rock County even has a Crisis Intervention department and that people take on challenging jobs in the mental health fields.

This is a tragedy, no doubt. This points out the effect of systemic budget cuts relating to caring for the mentally ill. Rock County has washed its hands of wanting to fund proper programs to deal with mental illness and alcohol treatment. There have been numerous articles documenting the impact of these decisions on the community, law enforcement, and the patients themselves.

You get what you pay for.

Well I would say that whoever did the evaluation in this case blew it big time. At the very high cost of two young lives.

Once again way to go Rock County. You have blown it again. I suppose I will have the sherrif sitting in my driveway now making sure my plates are current. This is a not a tragedy but a travesty. How in the hell could this be allowed to happen. Nobody could have evaluated anybody in 35 minutes.Let alone a consult with a physc. Hell I sit in a doctors waiting room longer. Rock county dropped the ball and this time people died. The system needs to be changed. The people responsible for this one need to be punished and FIRED IMMEDIATELY. They have NO EXCUSE. The public needs to be outraged before its one of your children. Act not and demand answers. This is in excuseable. People need to be helpd responsible to the highest of standards. Or how about the standard answer from the local and county police departments this must have been a civil matter.

Just another symptom of the failing county system. This is a high profile failure, and the low profile failures don't make the news. But they all have names too, they all have families too. Pray for the peace of the families involved, and pray for the peace of those who fail us dearly!

The real reason they do not want to take custody of a potential patient is the cost. 35 minutes for a balanced opinion is beyond pathetic. It takes longer to book a person into jail. There was mention made about a plan that typically takes place. It would be interesting to see if the wife was contacted. After all, the healthcare center claims they try to include the spouse. The least they could do is notify her of his immediate release, maybe what to be on the look out for, or signs of trouble. The healthcare center will hide behind HIPPA and claim all contact is confidential mental health records, but when they end up in court the family will prevail. Reasonableness has been overlooked here and the courts will recognize it. The Officers involved did a great job in identifying this subject as an unbalanced person in need of help, not jail. Unfortunately it is easier to relate the actions of the Officers, and the ultimate outcome after the fact. Too bad the CIW did not take enough time to properly identify the clues the officer saw that made the decision to take Shaun to the CIW in the first place. I hope the Officer that decided to escort Shaun to the healthcare center do not see this as a wasted effort in future conflicts. You did the right thing. Crisis failed everyone involved.

Shame on the evaluators for not taking the basic response to a domestic escalation. A 72 hour hold is mandatory for the threat of suicide and Jennifer was counting on the time to get away from her abuser. The 72 hours is an automatic. The police counted on it and so did Jennifer. Accept your responsibility in these deaths. you let him go, even if he had not killed Jennifer and himself, the 72 hour hold is the chance to prevent someone harming themselves. I am experienced in domestic violence and any medical personnel should be too. A domestic violence perpetrator will ACT his way out of any situation to get what he wants. Where was the intervention? The police did their job. Where was the medical follow up?

Yea the crisis place should have called psychic hotline, then they'd know what was going to happen. I buy guns all the time. Recently had a woman problem also...I probably showed signs that could be interpretted as a pre warning for something bad. everything can be a red flag to anyone in the paranoid state of mind. But you cant predict people will snap and come unglued and do stupid stuff. EVERYONE he hangs out with and is close to is to blame if anyone...They know him best. Now quit pointing fingers, accept, and move on.
Live and learn.

I think it's pretty easy to blame crisis intervention for this case. And karen really makes it sound like this hasn't affected anyone at crisis--like they just don't care that this happened. I doubt that's the case. The other article that was printed today about this tragic event outlines the fact that Shaun's behavior became increasingly bizarre for about the past 10 months. He bought a gun a couple of months ago. RED FLAG. What should have been treated over time became a crisis over the weekend. It's really easy in retrospect to say what should have been done to prevent this tragedy--whether we're talking about the victim, trigger person, or any county workers who came into contact with him prior to the event. I am just thankful that I have no personal ties to this case. My condolences to all involved.

They will talk about this in a team format? What good is that going to do? I used to work in crisis intervention and I know what goes on in those meetings, alot of eating, laughing and maybe covering what happened alittle then it is done. They are at fault and will never admit to it. Shaun should have been detained and taken to a mental hospital. Too late now and too late for these families to whom I send my sympathies. My son talked about and tried to committ suicide and they took him right to St. Marys in Madison. What happened here is a tragedy and the people to blame should shoulder the responsibility.