Working poor still struggle

dkush, you hit the nail right on the head. My parents did the same; 4 jobs between them and they provided a great lifestyle that allowed us to have the necessities as well as some extra's like vacations and toys. Many people these days do not want to work because they see their parents getting "free" money and it seems like the thing to do (for them). Too many people take that for granted, not caring that hard working working people are paying for these services.

Stinky_Socks:
Nice editorial. However, I was NOT attacking this woman. I was simply stating MY opinion about a food purchase.
I empathize with her position and it was very courageous for her to tell her story.
Have a NICE DAY.

nurse please read this.
http://gazettextra.com/weblogs/editor/20...

dkush! Well said. The problem is, the majority of the people aren't willing to work for it like your mom and dad did. Just like you said, we live in an "entitlement" culture. A society of people who have closed their minds and stopped dreaming. People unwilling to strive for above average and make it happen rather than watching it happen.

I am confused. I read the article in the poverty series and I was struck by the statement that Ms. Patrick was cleaning and all that was in her fridge was "hamburger and cases of soda and beer." I am amazed that this mother of four would make soda and beer a priority choice over milk for her children. In addition, there was a picture of her son and dog with empty cases of beer in the background.
I have much empathy for her plight of poverty and I realize it must be extremely difficult. I too received medical assistance and food stamps as a young single mother of three kids, one who was disabled. I enrolled in school and struggled to make ends meet. I utilized the programs the county had in place. I started as a CNA and I worked hard and I obtained my degree and graduated, and now I am an RN.
This woman is very courageous for sharing her story with us. However, my opinion is when you have four kids and barely any money, soda and beer should NOT be on the grocery list.

The problem with this country is we give too much to support others that should be trying to make it on their own. When my Mom and Dad came to this country, my Dad worked aprox 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and started his own business that way. What is the problem with others trying to do the same instead of depending on the government to give them everything.

VILLA....you do make sense, but unfortuneatly, I think the industrial days are over. We should all have seen that long ago when the robotics were being invented. Too bad. But I do agree, the arts and crafts will only go so far, that type of crowd certainly doesn't dominate the "midwest". At least we all have eachother..... :o)

So you only earn $10.00 an hour...what on earth would make you think to have a baby in the first place? Family Planning has next to free birth control available. I have to take a drug test to earn the money I earn so that it can be given out in benefits to 'poor'. But do they have to take a drug test to have that money handed over....NO! yes, the poor walk around with cigarettes and manicured fingernails. I see it all the time in my job. The huge sense of entitlement is just beyond words. So you made $20.00 and hour and now only make 10. Did you save any of that money you earned in your better days, or spend as fast as you earned it. People will get out what they put and an effort towards. There are student loans if you want to better yourself. I'm so sick of the poor complaining that they are poor. I work full time and support myself. I'm not rich by any means, and I don't complain that I should be getting more. I don't have kids by choice because I know how much money they really cost. Instead of putting all their effort into finding more free handouts, put that effort into bettering yourself and see how much more ahead that will get you.

“I also mentioned that if a person is willing to take the initiative, then they should have the opportunity to advance their education” quoted from my earlier post. I agree people have to want to be educated, but there are many who do. We are actually quite fortunate in Wisconsin, because this state has educational assistance options available for many people as you mention from your own personal example. However, there are other states less fortunate and many people are paying back student loans for decades if they can even manage to go to school and work at the same time. I also want to reiterate the fact that our education system as a whole needs work. As others mentioned, we need to improve our money management education along with math and science.

itiswhatitis~
Define "rich"!
Money doesn't make a person happy. It's what you can do with the time you can make available with that money that creates wealth. True wealth is MONEY + TIME.
I have much of both now and my priorities have never changed. No money is worth the time I get to spend with my two young children. They're only young once. If it meant living in a shoe box to accomplish that, I'd do it. I'm very happy for you that you've come out of your situation the way you have. I would say that you have some incredible courage and your example is something that many people out there could learn from. God's blessings to you and yours!

Unidentified..I agree education is a key element in sucess, but the want for an education has to come from the uneducated. If it is a "handout" from the government, that is just getting it easily, and it won't be as important and used as it should be. I remember when I was in "public" school, I didn't do well at all. Well, as an adult, when I chose to further my education, I kept a 4.0 in college, and looked forward to learning. Because it was my own determination and desire to further my education. When things are a hand out, I am afraid they don't work as well. And I do believe that there are ways for a person who can't afford an education to receive aid, in place already. Student loans, financial aid...etc. I was a single parent and the state encourages single parents to get an education by basically giving you aid for free. So, want equals help in my book. The key element is want. A person has to want to better themselves, and not just have the getting by attitude. But if they do have the "getting by" attitude then they forfeit their right to complain about being "poor". ****just have to say, this is actually a very enjoyable blog for once. No name callings, no blog bullies, just a bit of healthy communication.....thanks all. :o)

Spanky: Our public education system is failing as evidenced by our continuing slide down the global ladder in math in science. As I mentioned in an earlier post, we need to improve education starting in middle school and then find a way to allow more people to attend tech schools and colleges. In addition, I also mentioned that if a person is willing to take the initiative, then they should have the opportunity to advance their education. Obviously there are some who just don’t care and are beyond outside help. Moreover, there is always going to be rich and poor. However, as a country we can do a lot more to close the gap and give people who are willing the opportunity to succeed. There is no one size fits all answer, but if we continue to do nothing we will continue to see our standard of living in America decline.

There won't be any solid answers since there are as many different situations as there are poor people. I have everything I need-or depending on who you talk to-don't need. Furniture, home, working vehicle to get me to work and school, even a computer that is necessary for school (some use school computers but with two jobs it's not feasible for me to unless the school stays open til midnight).
Work, budget your money and you will be fine. Gee, why didn't I think of that. Or maybe, even without buying anything extra, some people who are pinching their pennies like crazy still wonder if they will have enough money for gas to last them a week. If it worked one way for you-may not work for me or the next guy. Some people are leaving great advice but it won't cover everyone-there is no solid answer.

WOW! so many good posts on this issue, yet no solid answers. Our story? 18 years ago we lost our home and subsequently our jobs and ended up staying at a homeless shelter. No jobs, no education, no money for gas to look for work let alone money for basic necessities, and a kid to raise. We were there for 90 days. During our stay, we were taught how to BUDGET our money. Today, we own our own home(for the most part), we have bank accounts, 401k's, and have managed to bank a little savings. In general, we live comfortably, though we are by no means rich. I make less than 8 dollars an hour at a job I've been at for over two years. One of us went to school while the other worked, now we both work. We owe it all to learning how to budget our money. True, in 18 years we have never had a real "vacation", our vacations are spent at home makeing all necessary repairs and cleaning. No, it's not "FUN", but we are proud of our home and how far we have come, dispite our hardships. We are not standing in line waiting for the government to help us with anything, including our mortage, we have learned to help ourselves. We do not go to the movies,out for dinner, to the fairs, sporting events or swim resorts. We dont buy expensive clothing, shoes, electronics or accessories. We rearly buy NAME BRAND anything. Most of the furniture in our home was made by me. Nope it's not classy, but it works. We still maintain a "do or die" mentality when it comes to OUR WELFARE. A penny saved IS a penny earned. Our rule of thumb is simple, needs trump wants no matter what! We WANT to be rich, but we NEED to go to work so we can support our selves. Its not rocket science, it's common cents!

Unidentified that's why we have PUBLIC education. You can't force a person to learn. They have to want to do it. Some people are just willing to live life in poverty. There will always be working poor and poor people. Some of these working poor are working the system. Yes they have jobs because the welfare system changed when Tommy Thompson reformed the system. They now have to have jobs to get aid. They work the minimum amount of hours so they can still get the aid and support. The system is better than it was but there are loopholes. Lazy people will figure out how to work the system and get by with government assistance. Some people are fine with just getting by. There are ways out if you work hard and apply yourself.

optimism: I emphasize education and nothing more in my post regarding this issue. As for other state and federal programs, I have mixed feelings but there is undoubtedly room for improvement. In addition, I agree with some of your points especially the fact that nothing good comes easy. However, if someone is willing to take the initiative to educate themselves in the United States of America, then our government should do whatever necessary to make that possible. There is no better investment in people, our future, or our country as a whole than an education and it would be money wisely invested.

And the poor aren't the only ones who would benefit from some money management education in this country!---------janesvillemom
Right on! This is good stuff!

I want to clarify, I never once said that living simple would be easy, but then again, nothing worth having is gotten easily. If that were the case, entitlement works itself into the equation, and then we start a whole other cycle of laziness. Hard work is a given to climb out of a mountain of debt. Same thing as losing weight. It is always easier to become over weight than to lose it. I do agree that displaced workers deserve education benefits, that is something that should be a given. I just don't think the people milking the system deserve to be compensated for their laziness.

optimism: I’ve read numerous articles relating to the increasing trend in home gardening due to the high prices in commodities, the recent tomato scares, and simply the better quality. As our standard of living continues to deteriorate I’m sure more will garden simply to save money and put food on the table. However, I agree that we could all use more discipline in our spending habits. Schools lack enormously in money management education. At roughly a hundred dollars a credit plus books, software, and other supplies it cost about $10,000 dollars for an associate degree at a tech school. This often has to be accomplished while working full time or part time. Granted, it can be done, but it isn’t as easy as you seem to suggest it is. This was a tech school example, but the cost sky rocket for a reasonable four year college. If someone has kids, it can be even more troublesome. This is why I think more precedence needs to put into making it possible to re-educate those who’ve been displaced from the manufacturing jobs or those without the financial means. As you mention, this won’t happen overnight and that is why politicians don’t make education a focal point of their campaigns. No politician will stand up and say, “This won’t benefit my term in office, but I’m doing this for the next President and future generations.” Education is not a quick fix, nor is it politically expedient, but it’s something we can’t ignore or we’ll continue to see a lower standard of living in American and be unable to compete globally.

downunderdingo-Your examples of people making bad choices underlines my earlier point that we need to be educating people about money management so they know how to make wise choices.
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And the poor aren't the only ones who would benefit from some money management education in this country!

unidentified...yes, you are correct, it is virtually impossible to go back to the old ways. I was using that as an example of living with what is only necessary if that is only what your income can supply. WHich means, no McDonalds, no cell phones, no cable, no pre-made snacks, etc. Make your own cookies, grow your own garden, go back to eating the "stick to the guts" foods. Then with the dicapline of living with only the necessities for some time, I am an advid believer that a person would be able to afford an education, but I do agree with you, education is lacking, and the reason is, is that it is too easy to give up. We all know that this country is "trying" to make education a priority in the midst of the problem, but obviously the damage has already been done, and it will take another generation, or worse yet, another start of the world to get things right. That is why we need to have our OWN determination and be responsible for our own destitude, and find our will which will show us our way.

optimism: I understand your point, but our ancestors could also make a living without even graduating high school. The days of everyone farming to make a living have passed as the prices of land have sky rocketed. In addition, the manufacturing base in America has nearly disappeared, so education has become essential since the options without it are limited. The movie Pursuit of Happiness by Will Smith is inspiring. However, in today’s world someone would have to have an MBA to even get looked at on Wall Street and even that isn’t a guarantee. I agree we have grown materialistic as a society and the definition of poor has changed. However, we still have too many people who are poor even using the old standards. Regardless of that fact, education is still a problem for the United States, which refers back to my previous blog posts.

This all just made me think of that movie with Will Smith and his son. The true story of a homeless man who had the will to overcome. I can't remember the name, but that is a valid example of determination can do.

Anyway, though to get back on the struggles of the "poor". The majority of our ancestors were poor. But they were content to work the land for their food and enough to get the necessities to live. The definition of "poor" has changed. I believe that people today think they are poor if they can't afford the items the media tells them they need, or the green eyed monster gets the better of them, and entices them to "charge it" and in return live beyond their means. Materialistic items are the reason our country is poor. Too many greedy people, thinking they need un-necessary objects. I am willing to bet that more than we know could afford the necessities of life, and have change to spare. So, I think we need to re-think what poor really means. I think if we truly enjoy our heath and family, and don't over indulge than we would all be the richest of all. But, really, is that possible? It is possible, and the ones that believe it is possible are the ones who rise above their troubles...and live to tell about it.

Downunder...I agree completely with you. Those people who lie to the system should be cut off of all assistance, and caught. I do believe though that there is no greater punishment than to have to live with a guilty gut, and that is exactly what they have or will have once age and wisdom catch up with them. (hopefully)

KLEEJ...Thank you. See, my struggles, and first hand knowledge just rewarded me....there is nothing better then someone telling you that what you say "makes sense". :o) I have definately had my fair share of struggles, and I use to think the whole "God never gives you more than you can handle" speal was just that, but I now know, after making it through the "worst times in my life" and learning things along the way, that that is really true. I wish people could just realize that nothing in life worth having is easy. NOTHING. Seriously, do you appreciate a tomato you buy at the store or one you grow on your own more? The hard work of growing your own always makes them taste that much better.

I would not say that the "majority" of people receiving public assistance "milk" the system and do whatever they can to receive more benefits, but I think people would be surprised to see just how many people do fall into thate category. As a former case worker in another county (I left the job because it was not as rewarding as I thought it would be), I observed MANY instances of people making very poor choices. I had a client whose rent and utility expenses were too low to qualify her for FoodShare so she told me she would have her landlord increase the rent by over $300 each month so she could get less than $100 in FoodShare benefits. I have had clients who reported a new job to me and once I verified their income from this job, that put them over the income limit to receive FoodShare. What do these people do? They quit their jobs so they can collect their benefits, instead of being thankful that they are now able to support themselves and not rely on public assistance. So many people lie to their workers so they can get more benefits! Some women lie and say the father of their children is not in the home (because his income would count) when he really is. Separated or divorced parents will lie about who has custody of the children. People collect benefits in more than one State (knowingly). This is why the counties have workers who deal specifically with fraud cases and workers who will actually go to someone's house to verify who lives there. It's really sad that people abuse the system, but it's even sadder that so many people are oblivious to and in denial of the facts. I'm not saying that everyone receiving public assistance acts like this, but I'm also not saying that no one does--there are plenty of people who make stupid choices. These people do not deserve to be defended by anyone.

Janesvillemom....although I don't know your "statistics" or mine to be universally true, I am willing to accept your information and hope that it is true. I can't have a valid argument about something I am not fully educated on, therefore, I will take your information and use that as a new belief. Although I still know that a lot of people do abuse the system, as I have seen it first hand. But it would be enlightening to believe that, that is not the "majority".

optimism~ You have great wisdom that is rare in blog sites. So much garbage to sift through on the internet. I would love to be able to have any of my young children get on the "net" and see what you put in print. I begin to believe there's hope because of people like you that actually deal in reality and have a clue as to what's actually going on in the real world. God bless you.

Unidentified-You are very right about the state of education in the US. The rest of the world is passing us up and we are too busy shopping for cheap Chinese goods to notice!
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That is why quality pubic education is vital. We need our brightest and best (no matter their ability to pay) to rise to the top and have every opportunity to compete globally.

I am a firm believer that GOD doesn't give us more than we can handle. Every situation we are put into is a tool. It is how we choose to use that tool that determines if we rise above or not. Sometimes, I believe he needs to intervene, because we choose not to handle things appropriately, but for the most part, the majority of us who have hard times, live to tell the stories of "back when", and we learn valuable lessons throughout the journey, as well as have the experience to help someone else in a similiar situation. I don't believe our society could survive without the empathy of others. Sympathy tends to make people defensive, empathy truely is useful to someone, and makes them feel "not so alone".

The "majority" of people do NOT abuse public assistance. Those are just the stories that get the attention. The medical establishment is fraudulently taking (stealing) more public money through medicare and medicaid fraud than all the money the government gives out as cash assistance for families. You don't hear people complaining about those lazy doctors milking the system! Ever since Reagan's "welfare queen" stories there has been a bias against the lower class and people generalize this image onto the "majority" of people receiving assistance when it is not the case.

puffer: You who? It helps if you address the person you are responding to.
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There is a larger economic issue facing us, which I didn't address in my reply. With our economy in its current state even an education doesn’t guarantee someone won’t be in poverty. However, without an education, those less fortunate are essentially guaranteed to never get out of poverty when the economy does improve. I have absolutely nothing against someone’s parents paying for their education and I’m not suggesting the government pay for four years at a top ranked college. However, I think some level of education can be provided by our government for those who are willing to make the effort and don’t have the financial ability. It really isn’t a matter of entitlement, which is often used in a negative tone; it’s a matter of addressing our needs and problems as a country. To restate my previous point; we are slowly slipping down the ranks of developed nations in education. As a result, starting from grade school, we need to improve our current system and provide more opportunities for success. Moreover, more tax incentives should be given to those who want to further advance their education to receive undergrad, graduate degrees, and doctorates. As a result, our government would help promote higher education at all levels.

sewaelizebeth...I agree with you that generalizations are detrimental in some curcumstances. I also hate to hear "statistics" because I always believe there is an exception to the rule. But when it comes to mooching and working the system, I guess I get super upset about those things because I have a brother (the one who was injured drunk driving...some of you may remember) who is 30 yrs. old and has NEVER worked, has three children, one on the way, steals to support his drug habit, has a criminal record longer than a Harry Potter novel, has a girlfriend who is just as much of a "loser" as he is, and moves from one place to another faster than a merry go round. When you tend to see something first hand, it makes you really appreciate the people who choose to better their lives and not just blame society for their problems. I guess I am more apt to generalize then not being I have seen ALOT of people chose to take the "easy street" rather than work with dignity.

SBM...you are definately an example of a family who needs and deserves the help of the state. That is why people get so angry at the ones who abuse it and make it very difficult for the honest ones. I admire you dedication to work through your tough situation. It is so easy to just give up, and thank god you haven't. I wish your husband the best with his condition, and your family has my prayers that your bad luck has ended.

optimism-I thank you for your kind words and 'optimism'. I don't know the statistics but I just hate to believe that most poor people are just milking the system. I would like to believe that these stories we hear about people having babies to get more welfare are the extreme. Still though, I think generalizations hurt everyone no matter what the basis-that's what bugs me I guess.
SBM-thanks for sharing and collaborating what I believe: some situations can't be planned for.

Another story....My husband & I got married young and had a baby while I was in college, all planned and since we bought a house before either of those felt we were okay financially. Fast forward 3 years and another baby and we rented out the first house and bought another well within our means. Hubby delayed college 'cuz he fell into a job he couldn't turn down, enough that I was in the process of quitting my job and starting a business when he had an accident that prevent him working period for over a year. No amount of therapy etc would convince his employer to let him go back to work - "won't even let him in to push a broom" to quote. So plans changed, I got a full time job and we fought for disability, let me tell you major medical bills, going from 50k+ for just him to 1400 a month overnight does some financial damage. Then when a paperwork clitch (20 page report said he couldn't work, someone checked one box that said he could) caused a complete loss of disability income for over 6 months - the toll is unbearable. We have both worked since we were 14yo, sometimes 3 jobs each, no way we thought this could happen but being young we didn't save as much as we should have and the stress nearly cost us our marriage. After a long separation that of course only added to the financial problems we got back together more in debt and determined to get out of it. Five years later it seems every time we think we have paid off all the debt something else pops up that is 5+ years old and no one knows why it hasn't come up before now. At this point I'm not sure we'll ever be free of this - and we are certainly not at poverty level incomes, have a house that is significantly less than most would with our income, have never bought a new car and until 3 months ago hadn't had a credit card in over 10 years - only do now to help our credit. The thing is this stuff can happen almost over night and takes YEARS to put behind you, the damage to our credit is something we will pay for for a very long time, which makes it that much harder to get out of debt.
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No matter how much you plan or think you have things under control you never know what will happen and what it will take to deal with it. I HIGHLY recommend disability insurance - even if you think you can't afford it, can you afford to overnight lose your income with no immediate hope of replacing it? Another tip we learned is that while paying off the debt is important, the FIRST thing you need to do is have some kind of emergency savings otherwise one slip and you have lost everything you have gained.

sewaelizebeth......your story is a rough one that is for sure. But the way you are handling your situation is what will rise you above your present state. That is what I was saying earlier, hard work, time and faith will bring you rewards. You don't have the entitlement attitude, and don't mooch society, therefore, you have the will to survive, and you will. You say you barely make ends meet, well somehow you do make them meet. That is all that matters right now. You have your health, family and are working hard to better your situation. The majority of the poverty stricken don't do what you are doing, they sit back and milk the system. So, of course the generalizations are made from the majority. You are an exception to the rule, as nothing is an absolute. But you can't deny that the majority of the poor choose to not work, have babies even though they don't work, milk the system and have the "I don't have anything to lose" attitude. Therefore, they enter into a life of crime etc. But, you are a person who should be proud of yourself, and I want you to know I am proud of you as well. I too worked myself out of the poor bracket, and I have faith you will too .... because you want to! Good luck to you and your babies.

Kleej- I hear you on the middle class debt issue! But this article is about the poor so maybe we will be able to hash that out on another forum someday. :)

There are a few leaches out there, I'll give you that. If they are abusing the system then they are wrong and shouldn't get the help. But the majority of the people who are getting help, truly need it and won't be on it forever. I'm for hand-ups not hand-outs.

Puffer, I don't begrudge your success even though I had to work my way through college because my parents couldn't afford to help me. You had one piece of luck that I didn't and that is great for you!
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My main point is that if you had the road paved for you, then recognize that and don't judge the people who are stuck behind the million hurdles that are in their way. I wish everyone could succeed but some people need more help than others and they don't need you to judge them or tell them that they just need to work hard like you.

Does anyone else here see a bit of a contradiction???

Who are you to say what someone else is entitled to? Maybe I should tell you my situation and you can decide if you feel I am entitled to my high paying job with excellent benefits. You'd probably say no, since my parents paid for my education giving me the "gold plated road"

While asking for handouts does help a lot of people, it also creates a lack of motivation for many. That group has the entitlement problem - they leech off the taxpayers because they can.

There is no better way to help the poor than to provide an education. If that means our government has to provide temporary housing, health care, or daycare in addition to covering the educational expenses, then let it be. Flexibility can be worked into the system, but it has to be based on success. In the long run it would probably be cheaper than the various state and federal programs that simply let people survive, but never really get out of their situation. I’m not a fan of class warfare, because complaining about the rich isn’t going to help anyone. In addition, I don’t believe that just because someone starts off rich at birth that they can accomplish more. Granted, the road might be easier, but it also won’t be as challenging or rewarding. I don’t believe people should be entitled to anything rich or poor. However, if someone in America wants to educate themselves to improve their standard of living they should be able to. It is obvious that the United States has a failing education system. As a result, we rank below other developed nations in test scores. Simply redistributing wealth isn’t going to solve our problems unless education is factored into the equation, because if we split up the wealth in America today in a few years we would still have rich and poor. The problem we face is that education is a long term investment and politicians are more concerned with immediate results. In addition, most politicians would be in and out of office before a real plan for education would start becoming effective. As a result, education is generally mentioned in passing, but never really put at the forefront of any political agenda.

janesvillemom~
I agree with you. I'll take it a step further. There are many in the middle class and even the poor who have that same "entitlement" attitude! The only way people are educated as to handling finances is through their parenting. If the parents have no clue how to handle money and avoid debt, how can the children? Just like you said, the society we live in wants everything now and they feel they're entitled to it. Thus, the credit cards come into play. Second and third mortgages etc. In mainstream America, people's finances have been in freefall for a long time. The problem is, many choose to ignore that fact and continue doing what they've been doing. They have no sense of delayed gratification. I was one of those people until I confronted brutal reality and made "CHANGES". For those people who have families and work lower paying jobs, my heart goes out to you and I admire your fortitude! For those who are middle class and aren't in debt up to their eye balls with "financed recreation", I applaud you! For those who with the "I'm entitled to it" attitude, I'll pray for you. With the age we are in, those thinking they can apply industrial aged thinking to their current lifestyle and prosper, you may want to drop the ego, find out what's really happening, and make the changes necessary to survive in the information age. There's really no options anymore. Part of that reshaping of the thinking is learning to have each other's backs in this dog eat dog world that we live in. Being less selfish and more selfless. Counting your blessings and understanding that there's hurting people out there who need something positive in their lives! Everyone of us have it in us to make a difference in other people's lives, it's just a matter of whether or not we choose to do the right thing and make it happen.

sewaelizebeth-Thanks for sharing your situation.

Just an FYI about how I formed my opinions on this topic. I spent two years on a research project for Head Start. After going into these family's homes and doing in-depth interviews with maybe a hundred low-income families, I learned A LOT. As the previous poster stated, every story is different and every person an individual, but the hurdles they face are usually very similar.

I'm poor. Here's my situation. I had kids when I had a good paying job to take care of them. Boyfriend dies, parents watch my kids for me when I work. I decided to go back to school. My job works around my schedule but since I no longer have an open availability I have to take a demotion-no longer get health insurance. I decide since to take one part time job that pays better and a second to supplement that one since I don't have health insurance through work anyway. With these jobs I can work around my school schedule which is now a set schedule (can't pick when to take my classes) because it's nursing clinicals. Both jobs slow way down. One still pays good but less hours depending on how much work is available. The other is a serving job and not as many people have been eating out. I looked for a third job for the summer-no hits. Looked for a better job to replace the serving job-no hits. Trying to find one full time job that will work around my school schedule while paying me enough to get by. Out of seven recent applications-I've heard from one. Hopefully the interview pans out. Until then, I'm stuck. I'm barely making enough to make ends meet. Kids need money to register for school, school supplies, clothes. I know-should of thought of that before I had kids. But back then things were good. Now they are not. I know-I should have planned better. You can't plan on someone leaving you. You can't plan on the economy turning to poo. You can't plan on your once stable job turning not so stable. And when all of these things happen-even the best planning won't save you for long.
I'd like to hear other poor people's stories. I can guarantee they won't be the same as mine. They won't be the same as each others. So these cookie cutter resolutions won't fit everyone. I don't feel entitled to anything. I work hard. For those of you saying live below your means-oh, I am. Every penny I make goes to bills and supporting my kids. You think I can save money? At this point in time I don't know if I'll make enough this weekend to get both gas and groceries. I don't feel sorry for myself, I don't feel entitled, I don't live beyond my means. All these generalizations about us poor kind of annoy me. Don't judge and if you really feel the need to-at least know the individuals story before you do. We live in a very gray world.

Puffer,
Last comment for you. And this one too.
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The upper class have an advantage over the lower class from conception! It starts with prenatal care, nannies, top-notch preschool, private schools, prep schools, SAT tutors and Yale. This is the extreme, but even a middle class family can provide a lot of advantages that impact intelligence and health (chipping lead paint in housing for the poor impacts IQ for example). And when the kids are teens, if little George Jr. gets in trouble with drugs, Mom and Dad can make it go away, while the poor kid gets a criminal record that prevents him from working most jobs.
I am ALL about working hard and improving your situation in life, but when people assume that the playing field is level for everyone in America, they are SO WRONG. It is a lot harder to make it when you have million hurdles in your way than when mom and dad have gold plated the road. That isn't about excuses, it is about REALITY.
The real sense of entitlement is the people who think that because they have had the road paved for them and they graduate some prestigious school, they DESERVE a million dollar salary and a company Lexus. That is a sense of entitlement. I don't consider people asking for food to feed their families as having a sense of entitlement...they are entitled to feed their families because they are human beings in a civilized society.

If you READ my post about the list of reasons some people can't start a daycare, you will see at the bottom it says, "Starting a daycare is obviously a choice that a few people can and do make, but it is not for everyone and is certainly not the answer to pulling most people out of poverty." So yes, I did say that not everyone can start a daycare.

puffer,
A student loan to make money? Is there a guarantee along with that? If that's the answer, why does 99% of the country have debt?
Why does the majority of college students start out in the work force (if they can find a job) with massive debt and 75% of those students are still paying on their student loans when they're in their 30's and beyond? I have nothing against an education, however, the whole college educational system is corrupt. It's a business. I know, the vulture's are circling now over that comment but, it's the truth and it's tough for people to handle.

You don't need money to make money, you need a student loan to get through school to make money.

janesvillemom,
I agree with a lot of what you said. I understand it's not always cut and dry which is why I wanted more information about the 35% that were working fully time.
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By the way, I prefer independent news sources as well which is why I read WorldNetDaily. A lot of the commentaries are conservative but they are clearly labeled as commentary. As far as Dr. Williams goes, his column deals with an economic perspective on all sorts of issues, not just politics.

You didn't state that not every one could open a day care, you just listed the reasons why someone couldn't. Maybe some can't, maybe some can. Point is, that while one solution may not work, there is another out there that will.

And I am also intelligent and healthy, and much of is MY doing. I eat well and exercise and worked my butt off through school and at my job. I don't say, well I'm just lucky, and anyone who isn't doing as well as I am is just unlucky. Only an individual can change their situation - so much emphasis is put on situations that are out of someones control. Like I said before it's how you plan for those and react to them. My first job out of college didn't pay very well and I had student loans to pay off. But I lived as cheaply as I could and was still able to save plenty. If I lost my job now, I would be able to live for at least a year on money I have set aside.

Well said janesvillemom.

Sometimes "it takes money to make money."

I don't think pointing out that not EVERYONE can just start up a daycare is "can't do comments that keep people in poverty"! I said that it is an option that works for some people. Dr.Talk seems to see the world in very black/white terms and I was pointing out that there is a LOT of gray in the middle. His simple solution to expensive daycare was "start a daycare" but that CANNOT work in every case! Every person has their reasons for being where they are in life and I happen to think that sometimes people need help to turn their lives around. "Give a man a fish you help them for the day, teach a man to fish and you help them for a lifetime." That is why I was advocating education about money management, not handouts. This article is about the WORKING poor and these people are doing jobs that our society needs. If they are able-bodied and are just sitting home doing nothing to help themselves, then they don't deserve financial help. I think we can all agree on that. But if they are working full-time and still cannot pay for the basics, then it is a problem our society needs to address. There are so many issues that can cause someone to fall into poverty (job loss, injury, illness, accidents,etc) that are beyond the control of the individual. People who are making low wages are even more affected by these problems because they don't have the savings, insurance, 401k's, pensions, etc that many higher wage earners have to fall back on.
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I have been very fortunate in my life and I recognize it as such. Sure I made good choices, but I knew how to make good choices because I was born into a great family who taught me well. I am intelligent and healthy. That was not my doing, it was genetics or luck or fate or whatever you want to call it. I know that not everyone is as lucky and I don't have a problem with my tax money going to help them as long as they are trying to help themselves. Depending on their lot in life, they may need a LOT of help or just a little, but I don't think people who say, "just work harder or just make better decisions" have a real understanding of the reality of poverty.

I think Janesvillemoms "can't do" comments are what keep people in poverty. Every suggestion brings a laundry list of reasons why they can't change their situation. It's easier to make these excuses than to get out and do something about it. Get an education - can't afford it, no time. Get a better job - no skills, no child care. And the list goes on. Bad situations happen to everyone, but how they are dealt with and planned for make all the difference in the world. Plan to not have kids young, plan to have an emergency fund if you lose your job, work hard to put yourself through school and get the skills that will get you that higher paying job.

Dr.Talk

You will get no argument from me that the rich do a lot to benefit the
poor. If it was not for private fund raising, donations and charitable
contributions from the well off, the poor would be in much worse
condition.

Contrary to your assertion, I do not define the poverty line, the U.S.
Department of Census does. It is based on income. The poverty line
varies depending on the size of family and where you live. But if you
are single, live in the 48 contiguous states and earn less than $10,400,
you are below the federal poverty line. Approximately 12.3%, or 36.5
million people in the U.S. are below the poverty threshold. You are
welcome to verify the statistics. They can be found in the Federal
Register, Vol. 73, No. 15, January 23, 2008, pp. 3971–3972. The
standard remains the same, but adjusted for inflation over time.

I don't care what people label him. The fact that he fills in for Rush Limbaugh is enough for me to decide on my own that he is right-wing. I prefer sources who are not biased in either direction...moderates or non-political sources.

janesvillemom said "I fact checked MooShoo's Wiki quote about Dr.Williams (using mostly the Dr.'s own website) and it seems to all be true."
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So you would disagree with Dr. Williams simply because someone labeled him conservative? Would you only take advice from an economist that was labeled liberal?

SummerGal77 said "you are so out of touch with reality - your comments are baseless and useless at best - go back and put your head in the sand instead of offering up worthless viewpoints."
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Telling people to work hard and learn how to manage their money properly is useless? Please tell me why.
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How come you didn't offer any of your own viewpoints?

janesvillemom,
I never limited people's choices to daycare, it was just a suggestion. The whole point was that if jobs are unavailable, people have to create their own jobs.
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Here's an entrepreneur idea: Find a house that has windows. Go up to the house and offer to clean the windows for $20. I'm sure there would be plenty of homeowners who would go for it.
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Here's another idea: Find a house that has gutters. Offer to clean out the gutters for $20. I bet you could make good money cleaning gutters.
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People can create a job for themselves.

Cracker! Amen on The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul!

Dr Talk - you are so out of touch with reality - your comments are baseless and useless at best - go back and put your head in the sand instead of offering up worthless viewpoints.

Other good reading: The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

I fact checked MooShoo's Wiki quote about Dr.Williams (using mostly the Dr.'s own website) and it seems to all be true.

As for the "Start a Daycare" answer:
1) You have to have adequate space (many living in poverty are in small or overcrowded living quarters)
2) If everyone did this, there would be no demand any more.
3) Starting and running a QUALITY child care program is not cheap or easy.
4) Some people do not have personality or temperament to spend ALL their time with small children.
I'm sure I could go on. Starting a daycare is obviously a choice that a few people can and do make, but it is not for everyone and is certainly not the answer to pulling most people out of poverty.

pwrtrip, great post. You're right about the internet being a great learning tool. The unlimited resources part is what can help or hurt people as well. The internet is an informational highway. The problem with that is along with much good info. out there, there is just as much garbage info. What happens when people take the garbage info. as good info? We have a culture of people raised to be consumers by the corporate driven media that don't even realize it's happening to them. People don't like to hear that and go into a state of denial that this exists out there, but, that's because it's all they've been taught. They don't know what they don't know. Like I've said, I'm in that same group of people. I was blessed enough to get the info. needed to help me distinguish the info. that was beneficial to me and many others as opposed to info. that was geared towards a corporate American company and their selfish pocketbook.

Here's some good resources at the library:
"Total Money Makeover" and "Financial Peace" by Dave Ramsey.
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Good resources on the Internet:
http://www.clarkhoward.com
http://www.daveramsey.com

MooShoo,
As if Wikipedia is a reliable source. Anyone can go and edit their articles.

Pwrtrip, Spanky, and Kleej you all hit it on the head! The socialistic "entitlement" attitude has contributed to much of it. It looks good at first, but then breeds hand-out takers. Why should someone work for it? This nation would have enough work and money to go around, if (one) people worked for it and tried to succeed and better them selves, and (two)we stopped shipping all of our potential work (jobs) over seas. Walk through the stores---everything is made over seas!!! All potential skills-trades, and employment for people who are not so skilled and employed right now. It's all ass-backwards!

If we keep political partisanship in the subject....we will never move forward. Simply rasing the minimum wage is not a solution either. Since wages and all other forms of currency flow are tied directly to the sources from which they came, costs will simply increase. We just need to bring the milk and honey back to the land of 'milk and honey' and stop fleecing our country. Otherwise these news stories will become more frequent I think. All of the things listed statistically in this story are the result of our economy. It could be fixed very quickly. Selfish right wingers and naive left wingers wont allow it. People need a chance to afford living here, but they need to go out and get it as well. Don't even get me started on the health care issue!

I have to agree with pwrtrip. None of those 'greedy republicans' got where they are by having everything handed to them. I think too many people 'expect' to be given everything instead of finding a means to go out and earn it. If you don't like your situation, change it. No one has the power to do it but yourself, end of story.

Open a daycare and SUPPLY a quality service at a lower cost than the competition and the DEMAND will be there.

Anyone with will and determination can succede. If you have a low paying job, rather than complaining about it...learn more, try harder. The internet is a free learning tool with no limit on its resources. Where your at is where you put yourself...unless your bound there by some unknown force. No one excersizes personal accountability anymore.