Council throws support to children's museum

We are thinking of moving to Janesville to be closer to work. However, the lack of things for our daughter makes us think twice. Having a children's museum and other things for her to do, would make us look into moving here more. We are already disappointed that Spanish will not be offered in the elementary schools and, unless you live close to downtown, there are no sidewalks or bike paths. The way things are right now, we might just continue with a longer commute.

Yuri Rashkin has an update on his blog with the poll results and some questions and answers about the Children's Museum if anyone is intersted.
http://www.yurirashkin.com/

Fairly obvious that (at least people writing here) do not want the thing to go forward. Maybe this should not fall on deaf ears, huh council members? Good intentions do not always mean good ideas. So maybe it's time to rethink things.?!

Good point by the way: GM closes and spending goes up. Wish I would have thought to say that. Constructive and effective spending should be the only thing acceptable right now.

Thank you, Optimism.

I find it amusing that on Yuri Rashkin's blog page he writes:
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"...we often rely on Public Opinion Polls. Well, those cost money. A lot of money."
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I guess he and the rest of the council would be an authority on spending "a lot of money." Too bad they can't be convinced to spend a fraction of the money they plan on approving to fund their "vision" on a referendum that would represent the citizen's wishes.

lakennedy said: "It's almost that, in response to GM's announcement to leave, the council has gone on a major spending spree."

I have been thinking the same thing. The perception I have is that the Council wants to approve these major expenditures BEFORE GM officially announces the closing date. I do know that Amy Loasching has at least mentioned the closing on several occasions, as a reason to be cautious on spending, yet the rest of the Council doesn't seem to listen. Now this.

SARAHB....Please remember that your CHRISTMAS WILL be merry. All you need is your family, health and spirit. And you have all of those, and nothing can take them away, not even unemployment. I pray for your happiness.

Not that it matters. This poll is a very nice gesture, but that's all it is. I feel that Yuri Rashkin has made it quite clear that he feels an urgency to revitalize downtown. Amy Loasching feels so strongly that the council's vision needs to be followed that she has made it clear that she doesn't want to see the issue be put to a vote before the very people who will be funding it, and Russ Steeber compares the Children's Museum to JPAC. That's fine, but when the funding of JPAC was granted GM and several other companies were going strong.
Again, this poll is doing a good job representing what I believe would be the outcomes of an actual referendum, but I really doubt the council will change their minds. While I don't think the council is acting maliciously, I do think they need to listen and act according to the wishes of the people they are supposed to be representing. It's almost that, in response to GM's announcement to leave, the council has gone on a major spending spree. It's comparable to you finding out that your spouse just lost his/her job, and you going out and buying a new car, having a pool put in, and taking the family on a trip to Europe.

"Would you support an ongoing subsidy of a Children's Museum by the city of Janesville?"
75% NO on Yuri's poll.

I am a very strong believer in representative democracy. I usually give the Council the benefit of the doubt when it comes to tax and spend decisions. After all, we elected them to make the tough and informed decisions. In this case, I feel the public cost greatly exceeds the public benefit of a children's museum in Janesville even with a 3/5ths capital contribution from donations. I hope the Council reconsiders its stance even if the private start-up dollars are raised because the ongoing public subsidy is too much in the long term.

yes and i beleive the outcome so far is 65% NOOOO

I'm sure he'll reply. Have you used Yuri Rashkin's blog to vote, yet?

lakeneddy- still no reply from city when i responed to Toms email to me.

I guess the council hasn't seen that the foreclosures have been skyrocketing. People can't afford their homes they certainly aren't going to be able to flip the bill for a children's museum at this time. Yes it would be nice to have. But, the timing for this is just not good at all. Put, it on the back burner and wait to see how the local economy handles the GM job loss impact.

To the city council members,
What are you THINKING?
There are thousands of jobs being lost in this city, fuel oil is expected to go up 30-40%, and families are already struggling to keep their homes. Now is not the time for a children's museum.
If you want to do something for children, remember that they need a roof over their head and food to eat. Save the $5 million to develop the GM building and broaden the tax base (future home of a privately funded children's museum?).
You are not representing the people who votred for you, nor the best interests of Janesville.
I want a new car, but I do not need one.
We do not NEED a childrens museum.

The first two questions in the "poll" are front-loaded.
I think most would agree that the determining factor would be to what extent tax dollars are involved.
There are many good things that could be done but the council and the citizens are obviously not using the same dictionary when it comes to defining "wants" and "needs."

Yuri...

...Thank you for taking the time to set up those surveys. I just hope that your fellow council members actually LISTEN to the results. Like most here, I have no real problem with the idea of a museum of any sort, just with the way we, the people that are going to be told to pay for it year after year, that we aren't smart enough to be asked this question in the form of a referendum vote.

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However, I have to disagree with your contention that this is a “distinct need.”

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“Any project that has this much backing from the private sector, to me, deserves a very serious look from the city council.”

If there is "this much backing" by the private sector, then let THEM pay the ongoing costs

Yuri, thanks for setting up the poll. At least someone on the Council is trying to hear from the voters. However, I want to point out a spelling error. Your use and purpose of the word "gage" is incorrect. The proper use and spelling is "gauge" and not "gage". I suggest you look this up.

For those who are interested, I have set up a poll to gage the support and opposition to the Children's Museum on my blog, which you can find at www.YuriRashkin.com. I invite any and all to express your opinion by stating you preference there. Thank you.

Yuri Rashkin

You may ask why the taxpayers keep funding projects to revitalize downtown. It's because the people in charge have financial interests downtown that would benefit from it being revitalized. They get little groups with cute names to push for improvements so the value of their land goes up. I think if everyone knew who owns the properties and businesses downtown where the taxpayer money goes, you would understand what's going on here.

Zoom,
That's a great idea. I just don't think the council members are going to cave and "let" us have a referendum, though.

You know I got to thinking, this article quotes the 51,000 visitors a year projected. ISn't the population of Janesville a little over 60,000? So either, there are going to be ALOT of repeat visitors, or almost the entire population of Janesville is anticipated to visit this EVERY year. ???
I do not disagree that a Children's museum would be a nice addition to downtown, I don't their statistics are correct. Plus if comparing to Normal- didn't it say a population of 150,000?

The bigger issue is the obsession with revitalizing downtown. How many failed experiments do we tax payers have to fund to try and revitalize downtown. Show me how downtown Janesville will help put food on the table for an unemployed citizen. A company will move to Janesville for good inexpensive labor and low operating cost. Why should we have to take money out of our every shrinking pot of disposable income to fund these projects? Is there a list of companies willing to move to Janesville because we have a Children’s museum? We just went through a record breaking flood and we’re losing thousands of jobs! It’s hard for me to conceive why the council would even look at this.

While I agree that the timing of this is very poor, and I don't think our city should add another annual expense, I'm not sure the issue merits a referendum. We do elect the Council to make these kind of decisions regularly, even if we don't always agree with those decisions.

That being said, don't we have a Presidential election coming up in about 12 weeks? Wouldn't a referendum added to the ballot get the biggest voter turnout possible?

chelleandlou:
What I'm gathering from my e-mails with the council, well the e-mail from Yuri Rashkin and Amy Loasching is this: they both feel that they were elected by the people of this city to make financial decisions. They see the children's museum as a stepping stone to both revitalize the downtown area and improve the quality of life here in Janesville, thus drawing in more residents.
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I noticed in your last post that you wrote that the council didn't seem concerned with what the people want. I share your feelings. I asked Mr. Rashkin in my e-mail to him to help us get the issue put to a referendum, here is how he responded:
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"Most single-issue referendums also tend to have a very low turn-out, increasing the chance of manipulation by the special interests. In the end, this being a representative democracy, it stands to reason that it is more effective for the voters and for the tax-payers, to elect a council that would represent the voters in making these and other decisions."
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In response to my question asking him "As a council member, are you more interested in what YOU believe is right for the city, or voting on behalf of the majority of the cites wishes?" (I also included that I felt that the council had forgotten that they were here to represent us)
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He responded with: "When you state that the council seems to have forgotten that we were elected to represent the residents of Janesville, please consider the possibility that we are doing the best we can to represent all the residents of Janesville, even those that may disagree with us."
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I do believe that Mr. Rashkin thinks he's acting in the best interests of Janesville. I just don't think he realizes that the community doesn't want or need any new taxes right now. I understand that the private sector has to raise the three million before taxpayers will be charged anything, but I think that Mr. Rashkin equates this number with a high level of private sector support I disagree. I think this money is going to come from a very specific group of businesses/individuals, thus creating a special interest project that the entire city will be paying the majority of for years and years.

Yes to "johndoe" We do need a mayoral type government in the community once and for all. Even the majority of the city wanted that to happen once, and their voice wasn't heard.

Instead of a tribute to our children....lets contribute to their futures. Another misdirection in waisted effort it seems. It will be decided by few people too. Even refferendum doesn't work very democratically for some reason. It always goes the way of the council anyway. There are so many other constructive ideas which could be considered, and would eaqually be tributary to the young. Also, a lot of the "by the numbers" seems a little suspect and unconcrete. These projections will be off the mark.

I totally agree with JohnDoe...

"They (the council) need to grow some "nads.""

If you ask me, the council has been hiding behind closed doors too much.

Sad news, Joker. No Merry Christmas for us.

Apparently what the PEOPLE want doesn't matter to the city council if they don't think that what's put in the comments here are important or that the PEOPLE who put them here aren't smart enough to say no to their big plans. I for one wouldn't go to a musuem for children...where do they think these thousands of people per year are going to come from? Maybe they're guessing that the majority of the city population is going to go....hate to let them know they're wrong....they better start taking the taxpayers seriously whether they post comments here, email them direct or however they convey what the PEOPLE want. I do vote and I will remember that come re-election time.....remember THAT city council.

Below is a link to the Normal Illinois Children's Museum websites history page.

It looks as though we are trying to duplicate their success. The population of Bloomington/Normal is over 125,000 not including Illinois State University. Normal committed $4.5 million in public funds AFTER it was open 8-10 years and a success. I think we are jumping the gun.

http://www.childrensdiscoverymuseum.net/...

zoom...Bill Sodeman...AKA rocksolid... does a great job of commenting and setting the record straight on school board issues...there is no reason the council members couldn't do the same here.
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They need to grow some "nads."

"I may be wrong, but it's almost as if the council members have been told not to reply to the blogs and articles here on the Gazette. I've been told in emails from Amy Loasching and Tom McDonald that neither of them think that posting here is a good way to "educate" people."

How can you blame them for not posting here? These comments aren't really moderated enough for serious discussion.

Or is it the disenchanters?

"I've been told in emails from Amy Loasching and Tom McDonald that neither of them think that posting here is a good way to "educate" people."
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I hope we all remember this at election time so we can show them how disenchanted citizens "educate" the disenchantees.

As I said earlier, the museum is a waste of taxpayer money. I found out more bad news today regarding GM. All of the execs at the plant are retiring by this December and the plant will cease production after November 1st of this year. Yes, this year!!! Also, Lear Seating notified their employees that they will be closing their doors as well by the end of the year due to GM. If you don't believe me, ask a GM or Lear employee. A sad day and in fact a sad year for Janesville.

Walker asked: "Anyone know if other council people have a blog?"

Amy Loasching is "not a blogger". She told me that much in an e-mail. I think the only person who has a blog is Mr. Rashkin.

I may be wrong, but it's almost as if the council members have been told not to reply to the blogs and articles here on the Gazette. I've been told in emails from Amy Loasching and Tom McDonald that neither of them think that posting here is a good way to "educate" people.

51,670 visitors per year? That is nearly 1,000 every week of the year! Does ANY other attraction average that many people in this city? Maybe the library? But that is for ALL AGES and is FREE. I have some major reservations about this project and about the consultants and council members who are calling it a NEED.

Lets take a look at the assumptions:

51000 annual visitors generates 306K in ticket sales (at 6 dollars each)

648K to operate annually. (Of course costs will remain stable)

Assuming the museum is open 260 days per year, this museum will need to attract nearly 200 people per day, everyday to achieve 306k in ticket revenue. Is this likely?

648K to operate, 51K visitors, produces an annual shortfall of 348000, of which 125K is coming from the city, also known as Janesville tax payers. Leaving an operating deficit of 223K per year. On average is it likely to assume that this museum will sell $1000 of goods every day the museum is open? 22K per month, open 22 days equals $1000 per day, 10 hour schedule 100 per hour.....everyday. THis does not include the 125K the taxpayers are sacrifing per year.

Are we to assume that 51000 visitors each will spend $4.40 each time they visit this childs museum? This is an aggressive estimate, considering the 900 square foot gift shop....

The citizens of Janesville deserve to see the actual projections and estimates. Call me skeptical but 200 people per day visiting a childs museum does not seem likely considering children attend school for 180 days per calendar year. This is a great project for a private developer. Let the developer risk his/her capital but not the average citizen who will most likely never visit this museum.

Amy Loasching is correct. Put this to a referrendum and this will die.

The scary part is, how did Russ Steeber get elected in the first place?

"In it she added that there is a lot of information surrounding this expenditure that we citizens don't have. Why? Why don't we have access to that information?"

Why does this sound like there is something 'dirty' going on...

I'd like to ask the Gazette to do some reporting here. All these threads on the museum, and so much negative reaction from the tax payers. Gazette, please help us out here, interview all 7 council people, go through the transcipt of the special meeting, and tell us what is really going on. Unless some of what is going on so "hidden" from us (and the press) that we will never know.....

lakennedy,
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"In it she added that there is a lot of information surrounding this expenditure that we citizens don't have. Why? Why don't we have access to that information?"
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I got this form letter too and felt that this section was kind of condescending...we know better than you so just trust us. I want to know what their plan is too. How does a Children's Museum become a NEED? This shouldn't be information that is unavailable to us lowly citizens. They could put information on the city web site outlining their plans for the future, their "vision" is something that we should all be able to access.

sorry edit that not this blog, this papers blogging stuff

lakenkenny- somebody did tell me on this blog in a derog comment that criminals not read the paper so I should be fine!!

Yuri D Rashkin has a blog in case you want to address the museum on it. He moderates replies, hopefully he allows the opposite opinion to be posted.

http://yurirashkin.blogspot.com/

He has a few sections called "Addressing Citizens' Concerns"

Anyone know if other council people have a blog?

Zoom: Steeber, Voskuil, and McDonald were also quoted in this article. I pinpoint Amy because of the "...but I think if we put this to a referendum, it dies" comment. It is offensive. A referendum represents the citizens wishes. I didn't vote her in to follow a vision she had after taking a field trip to Illinois. She was voted in to represent the city. I have e-mailed her and she gave a well though out response. In it she added that there is a lot of information surrounding this expenditure that we citizens don't have. Why? Why don't we have access to that information?
I respect Amy and the work she's done for the council. I'm just completely against her justification for both this expenditure and her opposition to a referendum.

TCB,
I wouldn't condemn Amy Loasching on one issue. I give her credit for requesting a six month waiting period for the wastewater treatment upgrades, which was denied by the other council members.

Also, note that we don't read many comments from some of the other Council members. It's easy for readers to pick apart what gets quoted by the Gazette, while the silent Council members avoid any criticism.

lol. I actually thought about your neighbors reaction to your earlier post. My thoughts are with you:)

I just received an e-mail from councilman Rashkin, who believes that the museum is needed to revitalize downtown.

I hope you are willing and able to attend the next council meeting. I hope everyone on this page who is against this expenditure will come, actually. I'll be there. It's my sons birthday, but I'll still go and say what I need to say and then go and celebrate.
I think the more of us who show up, the more of an impact we'll make.

unless he is repling from my last NO TUNNEL eamil awhile back which would blow my cover in there. oh well. I trust he wont hunt me down or retailiate like my neightbors moght.

tom just emailed me. My cover must be blown he used my normal email address not my contact hannah address. that confuses me because he said he never received my email that was sent to all at once and I never received a "mail wasnt sent message" I didnt rewrite all of my concerns just summerized

Hannah,
I can definitley read your anger. I love it. You should be angry.
I can't believe that you still haven't received any responses. McDonald and Loasching always respond. I get good feedback from both of them. Steeber and Truman thanked me for my comments, but failed to answer any of my questions.

I hope Loasching enjoys this term-becuase it is not likely that she will enjoy another one. Remember when Loasching said this:

"Loasching said she was too excited to list her priorities for the council but said, "We have to look closely at what the needs are in the community, and I have to look at the budget to see where the money is spent."

http://www.gazetteextra.com/eln_jcc04030...

Beware of any politician who wishes to remove the general electorate from the political process. Looks like Loasching has turned into a psuedo intellectual that is much smarter than the general electorate.

When any politician says something like theis "“We are the ones who know what our vision is,” she said. “We’ve been elected by the residents to … create a vision and see it through. … But I think we put it to a referendum, and it dies" grab your wallet.

HEY spelling police....knock it off. WHO CARES how people spell!! You make yourselves look very shallow by focusing on something so trivial. If spelling was a prerequisite of blogging, the gazette would have held a spelling b.!!!!

whybesad- I believe they can read my anger!!!

whebesad- thanks for stating the obvious!!! I know.deal with it.

irish maphia- i emailed yesterday and still no responce not even the gereric blabla

Wow. I emailed the council my concerns about ALL the projects they are approving. And got 2 responses very quickly. While one was very short and sweet thank you very much, the other was a very thought out response addressing my concerns.
So they are reading the emails sent.

overthehill: I think you are misunderstanding most of our points. It’s not that most of us are completely opposed to a children’s museum or any other culturally beneficial elements we can add to our city. On the other hand, I’m opposed to the timing of this proposal. We are facing economic struggles, job losses, and budget issues. Moreover, if GM’s does leave, we will have an increase in taxes to make up the tax void left by GM. In addition, we already know the museum will have an annual revenue shortfall, which will have to be made up somewhere. Eagle, WI has the benefit of state tourism, which Janesville doesn’t have. Moreover, with the many retirees and transfers it is quite possible Janesville could see a slight short term population retraction, so current estimates may not even be accurate. Additionally, we don’t have a huge influx of outside visitors who could help add to the ticket revenues of a children’s museum and may not have enough current residents to cover the operating expenses. I think at the very least this idea should be shelved for a few years until everything (population, tax revenue, job losses, and budget shortfalls) settles down. The problem with political figures, be it a volunteer council person or a paid career politician, is that nobody wants to be the one that says, “We have to show restraint on projects and stop spending money so we’re basically not doing anything that doesn’t have to be done.” How much fun is that? They don’t want to be perceived as doing nothing, since no new projects would have their name attached to it. However, right now the most important issues facing our city involve budget restraint and job creation neither of which is fun or easy to achieve. I want to insure enough budget funds are available to be dedicated to job growth and infrastructure during these tough economic times.

I was just commenting in the other museum blog about the number of projects. While I love the idea of them (museum, skate park, bike tunnel) the timing just doesn't seem right. My pocketbook is taking a big enough hike in food, clothing, etc. I don't want my taxes taking a huge hike too.
Who can afford a 30% increase in their water bill? (that was the printed percent mentioned) which that project was approved.
And don't forget the changes in the school district. The language program was approved- so while they are still looking at cuts, it was stated that those cuts will probably be more than offset with a bigger increase next year or the year after.
very frustrating. I don't mind these projects- if they could just be evaluated when the economy isn't in such a downer right now.

If we don't have the museum, we can pay off the bike tunnel in under two years, just with the savings from not having to pay the operating shortfall of the musuem!

"But other council members said they changed their minds about a children’s museum after visiting one in Normal, Ill.
It would be difficult to share that kind of experience with residents, Councilwoman Amy Loasching said."

I think the whole Council (not just Amy) needs to do a better job of justifying the ongoing expense of this project. What is it that changed their minds after visiting Normal Ill.? Did Normal, Ill. have the same economic uncertainty in it's future when they built their Children's Museum? How is it funded? How successful has it been?

Is this the same meeting that they also discussed the treatment plant and that bill is going to be $32 million. Has anyone been adding up all the"projects" & the cost of each one that this council has come up within their short tenure and guess what we get to pay for them all. I'm all for keeping the infrastructure of the city up-dated.. But a bike tunnel, a museum, etc..is not a need it is a want..

overthehill - I would love to bring my kids up and check out your museum. I don't think anyone here is "dissing the idea" so much as the funding. You mentioned that yours was "built with private funds." As it should be. If Janesville was to be getting a childrens museum built with private funds, I think it would be welcomed with open arms.

I live in a northern Wisconsin resort community (Eagle River) that has a children's museum that was built with private funds and it is such an asset to the community. There are days that you cannot hardly find a parking spot in the lot, it is so popular. They just celebrated their 10th anniversary and have just doubled the size of their facility. A children's museum is a place for the family to go and play together and learn new things....totally hands on. It can reflect the things of your community as our does. When my grandchildren are of the age that this is something they enjoy we go there and have such fun. All of you people that are dissing this idea really need to get a grip and loosen up some. Life needs to be fun and you need to have fun with the young people in your family....this is a good way to learn and have fun with them.

Good point, whybesad. I e-mailed the entire council and received four e-mails back. Loasching and McDonald actually addressed my original e-mail (which included questions), while Steeber and Truman e-mailed me back a response not even addressing my questions. I'm not even sure if they read it.
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I agree that phone calls may be more beneficial, but I think that most results would come from actually going to the meeting. Could you imagine if all of us came in and addressed the council? I don't think they could ignore us then. I know I'll be there at the next meeting. I hope to see you guys there, as well.

If the "vision" of the council was simply to attract kids downtown they wouldn't need a museum. The purpose is to attract families that have children and in turn spend money in our city, which will in turn help the economy. At present, from what I read here, most people LEAVE Janesville for other destinations spending their hard earned money someplace else thereby helping another city's economy. Then they complain that this city does not have enough money and never realize that they are contributing to Janesville's "economic woes".

e-mailing the council wouldn't do any good. Call them and call them often if you are upset. An e-mail is a very ineffective way to contact the council. When you call they can hear your anger.

It's a good idea just at the wrong time right now. Hannah you could use some spelling and grammar classes.

I have a problem with where they want to put this Lemon of an idea. Every place on the list is a place of business. We live in a "Museum" area. You don't have to drive far for a great museum. Old World Wisconsin is not that far away and they have hands on activities for kids. You have New Glarus which is a wonderful get away. Children will out grow this over size indoor play ground. We already have Chucky Cheese for fun and games........What ever happen to parents encouraging there kids imagination at home........If you feel the need for your kids to "dress-up" go to Goodwill and buy them some dress up clothes to play with. that's what I did and now my niece has them for her kids.

"We are the ones who know what our vision is,” she said. “We’ve been elected by the residents to … create a vision and see it through. … But I think we put it to a referendum, and it dies."--Amy Loasching."
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This is an insult to the citizens of Janesville.
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I have always previously backed the city manager form of government, and I had higher hopes for this council in being fiscally responsible for the public dollar.
They continue to disappoint.
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They have succeeded in convincing me that a mayoral / aldermanic is worth a try. This council is not in touch with the majority of Janesville citizens. Their vision is clouded.

Does anyone have information on how many repeat visits a children's museum typically records? Do the activities change on a regular basis? What would make a family from out of town visit the place more than once? Remember, there is an entry fee. The Milwaukee Museum has a children's area within it, but that facility also has multiple exhibits for all ages.

The zoo?
Regardless, Heather. Do you really think that a childrens museum in downtown Janesville is going to be a huge draw to children? Maybe after a nice day at the museum they could swing by Quotes or Legends for a nice cold beer? My earlier post illustrated that Madison has a lot to offer right near the childrens museum: other museums, the capitol, state street, Memorial Union, and the zoo.
Janesville has nothing downtown to attract kids.
This amount of money for a "vision" that may or may not pan out is ridiculous. At the very least, put it to a referendum and act on behalf of the wishes of all of the voters.

I emailed the city council address and received responses from both Tom McDonald and Amy Loasching. Tell them your concerns and they will respond.

If you aren't happy with how they, and the other council members, are running the show. Tell them. I had responses within the day.

citycouncil@ci.janesville.wi.us

lakekennedy, there is a big difference between adults who are going to drive into town to see a show and families who are spending time with the kids.

35 extra miles is 70 miles round trip. First of all, that's an extra hour in the car for the kids. Second, that can be up to an extra $20 in gas money. There are many families that could benefit from having something closer!

Have you tried State Street on a busy Saturday afternoon with a young child? It's not fun! The Union is nice, but again, not a great family destination.

HeatherH. If you'd noticed, this museum will be operating at a loss. Even with the money given from the taxpayers. You say that this will help the economy...what PROOF do you have of that? JPAC was supposed to draw in revenue from all over, and it has been more successful than I gave it credit for, but how many "tourism" dollars has that actually drawn into the city? I've gone to several shows at JPAC, there were people there from out of town. Guess where they were going after the show? BACK HOME!!! Most people will go to Madison to their childrens museum. The city has a lot more to offer than Janesville with it's zoo, State Street, Memorial Union, etc. If a family is interested in taking a family vacation day, common sense should tell EVERYONE that they'll drive the extra 35 miles to Madison.

hanna-Invest is probably not the best choice of words.( Steeber called it an investment in the artical).Not all investments are profitable. This definatly won't be. I can think of a lot of other word to use for this, but, they are not nice. So,lets call it what it is...An unwanted taxpayer expense!!!!

When you build something like a museum, it's not just for the locals. Those planning on this are counting on the fact that people will choose to drive to Janesville rather than to Madison or Rockford when they want to have a family day out. They also count on those families doing more than just driving in and back out of the city. The hope would be that a family would stop and eat and possibly shop while they're in town, all of which brings in tax revenue.

And honestly, given the choice between a children's museum and a museum that chronicles the history of Janesville, I'd drive up to Madison before spending a day learning about Janesville from birth through present day. As nice of a city as it is, people aren't going to pay money to learn about your city's development!

This is something that could HELP the economy, but you refuse to see that!

oops i meant sorry to jks44

almeg- i agree sorry almeg. hard to be so positive in a crappy economy and SOME of us survive off of what the economy is up too.

jks44s- People are "complaining about everything going on around the area" because it is a reality! We are living it! I am happy that your job is secure and you don't have to experience the uncertainty of the future, but have a little compasion and understanding for those of us that do.

almeg/ you used the word invest. clearly the article stated it ISNT an investemnt if they PLAN to lose $200k plus a year.

IvyGreen- We are a family with children and my job is uncertain. A childrens museum will not infuence us to stay. The way the council is spending our money on"needs"...We are seriously considering leaving!! We have taken our children to lots of museums. We always have a great time. But this is not something Janesville need to invest in at this time!

ivygreen & jake44:
You both mention "negativity" in the posts listed below. I never meant for my posts to become negative, but I see that they have. You see, when a council member blatently tells us that she will not put a huge price tagged project such as this to a referendum because she's afraid it will "die", I get frustrated. I did not vote for a council to follow their "vision", I voted for one who will act on behalf of the city. You should be equally upset. What if you were on the other end of this equation?

I agree with others on this site. Let's fix and improve what we already have before even considering a tunnel or some museum.Janesville has so much to offer already. Why are we not fixing it?

i believe coucil did say it was a "want". so I dont want it!!!! they even thing if a referendum goes threw it wont pass DUH WHAT does that tell you???

take your kids to the progams at a place we already have The Performing Arts Center. they have a lot of kid friendly ones!! and use it before it shuts down due to inactivity someday because to many venues in town.

Sorry guys but if we're footing the bill we have every right to complain about this. I understand and admire your desire to expand the cultural opportunities in Janesville and your obvious love of kids - I share those sentiments. BUT hey I'm still trying to swallow the fact that we're getting stuck paying for a bike tunnel that we can't afford. Now this ?? When does it end? There are a lot of people in this community who are having a hard time making ends meet - and to have our Council say that this is a NEED versus a WANT is very offensive !!

hannah - Of the two responses I received so far, one seemed "canned" (from Amy L.) but one was a personal reply adressing my specific concerns. Thanks to Tom McDonald for taking the time.

IvyGreen.. I completely agree with what you are saying. The negativity from the rest of the posters makes me feel sorry for the children in our community. A children's museum is a great idea to enrich the minds of the kids. As for the cost, $25 for a family of four? It costs more than that to go see a movie in a theater. I'd hope that the rest of the community would open up a bit to new ideas and stop complaining about everything going on around the area.

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for my post, but here it is anyways. I'm really surprised at the anger and vitriol the idea of a children's museum seems to spur in some of you. I know it's hard to envision the positive impact a children's museum could have on Janesville when GM is going down the crapper and financial security seems in doubt. But if we don't encourage families with children to stay in or visit Janesville, what hope is there of a bright future for our community? If you encourage the families to stay in Janesville, if you encourage learning and enrichment of young minds, you are investing in a bright future for the city.

For those of you who mock a children's museum as a place to view "toys from before Playstations", please do yourself a favor and take one of the small children in your life to a children's museum. There's one in Madison. They are far more than just a museum where one views exhibits. They are places to play and learn, for families to experience a day of fun and lasting memories with each other. Please go visit one with a young child and see if your impression remains the same.

Perhaps the city of Janesville can't afford to single handedly pay for a children's museum, and it does seem unfair to place the entire burden on taxpayers who may be struggling financially. But why not let them go out and search for private donations and grants to make such a thing a reality? Why all the vehemence directed toward (what is right now) an idea that ultimately will make the city of Janesville that much nicer a place to raise a young family?

Cracker: Anyone who thinks the downtown area of Janesville is "dead", simply isn't paying attention or believes the only thing that makes cities "alive" is consumerism. There is far more going on already in downtown Janesville than most other towns in Wisconsin. If you need help finding out what is going on, check out any of the many local websites (www.rockcountyarts.com), the JVCB, the library, WCLO's events calendar, or the many other local resources. Then, instead of always criticizing, become part of the solution for our entire community by volunteering your time in any of the myriad of activities happening to make the downtown reflect YOUR vision, too. The Council just might follow YOUR lead if you show them you're serious about helping rather than just condemning.