The nerve and arrogance of some people to blatantly say that homosexual activities OFFEND them actually bewilders me. I hear or read such things and say W-W-WHAT?! I mean seriously, get off of it. And the omnipresent phrase that is sure to turn up in such discussions, "I'm a Christian.." Jesus Christ. You want a medal? Oh you're a Christian but you're NOT offended? Wow!! Nobody gives a flying fish of what your superstitious beliefs are, especially ones that teach you to be homophobic. It would seem to me that people would be reluctant to give out such information about themselves. They think the phrase "I'm a Christian" sets them above the people they are criticizing. If you would think for yourself and disregard all the Christian BS that you eat up maybe you could stop being such a prejudice pig.

Rocky - Don't worry about the anger thing, I've known about that awhile. Thank you for looking at this issue on both ends. I may not fully agree with everything you said, but I respect your opinion and your more open mind, which is more than I can say for some people commenting on this subject.

upnorthwi - No, it won't hurt you to live by a book letting it lead your life, but it won't hurt me not living by it either. If God is as great as people claim him to be, he would love me any way, not turn his back to me just because I didn't read or follow the Bible. So ya, I will take my chances, and if I end up going to Hell because God turned me away for something as simple and as stupid as that, I wouldn't want anything to do with him any way.

www - That was a very pathetic response. I typed something so I don't support it...isn't typing different from talking any way, automaticly shooting your statement down? And another thing, I'm not waiting to come back at someone like you, who is trying to slam me, with a rant on how much I hate God, or whatever it is you think I want to do. I've said all I wanted and needed to say, end of story. So you can your snotty and "I'm being a smartass with you" attitude somewhere else, because really, you just made yourself look stupid.

Really, Jackson? Think about your high school career. Were you ever encouraged to join extra curricular activities? Ever have to take an art class? Ever have to run the mile? Ever have to attend a choir concert? I definitley did AT SCHOOL, but not at MY JOB. I was, and hope to continue to hear that the current students are, exposed to a wide variety of issues and activities at school. These things are what helps people open their eyes and their minds to the world, some of which we all don't have to agree with, but never should condemn.

School should be like a job. I do not now if you work but you do not talk personnel at work. Or have a silent day at work. Worker pay for schools, and school should be ran like a job.

Why is this an issue? Simplistic ignorance is the only reason. A group of kids wanting to do anything to demonstrate AGAINST bullying is a good thing.

Books aren't the only form of education I want for my children. I want them to have a well-rounded education that makes them think BEYOND THE BOOKS!

People blindly believing what they read and hear is exactly why this is an issue in this community.

This is why many tax payer believe school should be paid for directly by parents of each child.
What happened to the idea of learning the three RRRs. This bs is why we have fallen way behind the world.

Buy them books, send them to school, and all we get is games. Cut the cord now on this system. Let it be open to the private sector.

copperguy, you have a very clear, concise way of explaining your thoughts and the reasons behind your thoughts/belief system.

Thank you for your input!

buckyfan, et al: A thief may think in his mind that it's ok to steal (think, Robin Hood). Yet, the law makes it illegal. At one time it was legal to own slaves. At one time it was illegal to own alcoholic beverages.

There is a legal age at which a person is no longer a child, and is able to consent to a sexual relationship (absent other factors such as mental competency, etc.). When a sexual predator engages in sexual activity with one who is not legally competent to consent, that is unlawful.

Certainly, homosexual acts involving someone who is not lawfully able to consent are wrong. That is not the given topic of discussion here, as I understand it. In fact, the topic is not sexual acts at all. It is sexual orientation. The question - though not directly posited - is whether it is ok to speak out against people being bullied, beaten, or even killed, because of their sexual orientation...their sexual orientation separate and apart from sexual expression.

As I stated in an earlier post, I have seen no evidence that GSA or any of the posters put up at the school sought to brag about sexual exploits. Rather, they seek to admonish violence based on sexual orientation or any other prejudicial supposition.

I do not deny anyone their right to have biases against behavior that they find offensive. Too many people take offense at the person who may or may not be engaging in that behavior. I have not seen anyone stand up and say, "I have sex in such-and-such a way, and you will be ok with that." Don't get lost in the behavior that one imagines is taking place. That is of no one's concern except the participants (absent the factors I mentioned above).

Yet, from a number of the posts here, it is clear that many people cannot separate their imagination (of what is or is not taking place) from the person who simply wants to be able to be themself without fear of violence against them for just being.

I'm not saying "whatever" to the topic. I'm just saying that we have other things to worry about then homosexuality. Maxdetail, why do you make it seem like I don't care. It's not that I don't care, I really do, but I'm sick of hearing people diss on homosexuals and saying that they shouldn't belong on this planet.

The main reason for The Day Of Silence is to make it known that there are homosexuals out there in the world and it's not wrong to be one. It's okay to be who you want to be. Isn't there a sayin that's like "Be Yourself". Homosexuals are trying to be themselves, but how can they if they're getting dirty looks for it?

I'm sorry that happened to you, buckyfan.

I would refer you to my earlier post that a child learns by guidance from parents/caretakers of what is/is not acceptable behavior. By the time a person is an adult (assuming there are no mental illness issues) there is no logical reason for that person to believe that molesting a child is ok. S/he knows it is against the law AND against human nature.

It sounds like you have a remarkable amount of understanding and forgiveness, as that man virtually stole your childhood, and I commend you for your attitude.

As far as I understand it, homosexuality should not be classified as with all the other sexual "deviants", i.e., pedophilia, bestiality, rapists, because with gay people it is two consenting people. The other sexual proclivities I've listed are the acts of one person against another person (or animal) that cannot or won't consent to the sexual activity.
That is why the other types of "sexuality" will not be acceptable to society.
I recently read about the polygamist Mormons in Texas. Many bloggers at that site thought polygamy was OK, because it was a religious practice. The problem that came out was one of older men "marrying" 12 year-old girls, who didn't want to be in these "marriages", but felt pressured by church members to do "God's will".
Forcing another person into an unwanted sexual act should not be acceptable. Homosexuality involves two consenting people, usually in a loving relationship, just as heterosexuals are.
As far as the GSA group at school, I think the message of bullying/beating up/killing people regardless of who they are, should not be tolerated as well.

Copperguy, remember that at one time homosexuality WAS against the law, making it also a criminal behavior. That has changed over time (in most/all states?).
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I guess the point I was trying to make with my comment is that those who are predators probably don't think of themselves as predators. They probably also think that they are just naturally attracted to children. In other words, their sexual orientation.
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The man who molested me as a child told me he loved me and wanted to marry me. I was a 7 year old. He was my bus driver and baby-sitter's son--a grown man who honestly thought what he was doing was OK.
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To carry forward maxdetail's argument, would you say that we should tolerate this sexual orientation -- because in his mind, it was OK. And if you don't think it's OK, does that mean you hate him or want to kill him? I honestly don't hate him ... I think he's a mixed up guy who's a little slow and honestly didn't understand that he was messing up a little kid with his inappropriate behavior.
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I believe the point maxdetail was trying to make is that not everyone thinks some behaviors are OK. It doesn't mean that the people who hold that position are hate-mongers. And who gets to decide what is acceptable and what's not? Who's the arbiter?

Note the definition of "predator," according to American Heritage Dictionary, as posted at dictionary.com: "One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain."

Being a sexual predator is not an orientation: it is a criminal behavior.

maxdetail, you have given much to this comment board.

Thanks for your insight and authenticity. I would be proud to stand as an ally against violence with you, as well.

Take care.

buckyfan, you asked: "So you're saying sexual predators aren't born that way? What makes him/her a predator instead of it being a sexual orientation?"

I believe that a child is taught at a young age (some say by the time a person is 7 years old) the difference between right and wrong, how to establish boundaries, how to delay gratification and to respect other people, as well as developing intuition of who to trust. This, in my opinion, is also when the highly moral vs. criminal thinking starts and where want vs. need, selfish vs. selfless and good vs. bad behavior is learned.

If children are not taught these things by a parent or loving caretaker, one ventures out alone, by default, and "learns the ropes" without guidance, generally, with negative results.

Ms_Sassy, I've enjoyed the give and take. Thank you for dealing seriously with the topic. I appreciate your ability to express yourself well.

I would be proud to stand with YOU in our common cause to minimize violence in our schools. In this cause you and I are allies. For obvious reasons I could never ally with a group that defines itself in terms of sexual behavior. That kind of group is superfluous to our shared cause.

I'm bowing out of this thread now. Bless you Ms_Sassy, you are a kind and conscientious person.

So you're saying sexual predators aren't born that way? What makes him/her a predator instead of it being a sexual orientation?

maxdetail wrote: "In this forum we have had someone announce that he, she or it is a 'pansexual', another is bi-sexual, then trans-sexual, transgender, and homosexual. We are trying to discuss school violence but half the crowd can't hold back telling us what kind of 'sexual' they are. I DON'T CARE!"

Let's not forget that there are people on this forum who have announced that they are straight. That didn't get your attention or offend you, though. Just the ones who claimed to be of a "different" orientation.

food for thought

"To respect regardless of sexual orientation makes no sense at all. Parents are on the lookout for Daniel D. Anderson right now. Daniel Anderson has a sexual orientation toward young girls, really young kills. I'm sorry GLS, I cannot value nor respect his sexual orientation. There are many other sexual orientations that I can't respect."

That portion of your post is what I was referring to, maxdetail. It sounds like you are using the terms sexual predator and sexual orientation interchangeably when they are not at all related. One's orientation has NOTHING to do with his/her propensity to commit a crime.

maxdetail, you wrote: "No, I cannot accept the presence in our schools of a group that encourages acceptance based on sexual orientation. Now if you want to be against violence toward people, ALL people, then I'll stand four square, shoulder to shoulder with you."

That is exactly the point. Sexual orientation includes gay AND straight. Therefore, it is my understanding that this is a cause against violence of ALL people. ALL people have a sexual orientation, be it gay, straight, bi-sexual, pansexual or any other of the growing list of descriptions that people are calling themselves, I believe in an effort to be an individual. And is also why they are calling it an ALLIANCE. Alliance can be defined as a truce, a bond, an agreement or a connection based on common interest. In my opinion, the common interest is to make school campuses safer for ALL people.

Now will you join me as we stand four square, shoulder to shoulder?

I will look forward to your response Ms_Sassy but please respond to what I wrote and not what you interpreted out of it. No where did I say that "Someone attending public school who happens to have a sexual orientation other than straight is a sexual predator."

I'm asking "who gets to decide which sexual orientation is acceptable?" In this forum we have had someone announce that he, she or it is a 'pansexual', another is bi-sexual, then trans-sexual, transgender, and homosexual. We are trying to discuss school violence but half the crowd can't hold back telling us what kind of 'sexual' they are. I DON'T CARE! These are the only orientations. Let's list the rest of the orientations, let's take them in alphabetical order:
Apotemnophilia, Asphyxophilia, Autogynephilia, Coprophilia, Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Gerontosexuality, Incest, Kleptophilia, Klismaphilia, Necrophilia, Partialism, Pedophilia, Masochism, Sadism, Telephone Scatalogia, Toucherism, Transvestism, Transvestic Fetishism, Urophilia, Voyeurism, and Zoophilia.
Whoever has a genetic disposition or strong desire to do these things, be my guest. Do it with someone you 'love' in your favorite private place. Don't brag about it, don't post it on YouTube, don't put it on television, just enjoy.
But whatever your orientation, PLEASE, PLEASE, keep it the hell out of our schools.
Goodnight, God bless and rock on.

I will comment more at a later time, maxdetail, about your post, but there is no correlation between Daniel D. Anderson, sex offender, and sexual orientation. Someone attending public school who happens to have a sexual orientation other than straight does NOT make them a criminal preying on young children.

"How can you argue with the GSA's claim that schools are unsafe?"

That's a good question Ms_Sassy.
Every reasonable person in Janesville is against bullying anyone. There IS a problem with violence and hostility in the schools. Everyone is against violence in the schools. The Superintendent and administrators and city council need to address these problems.

What I don't want is for a group that is successfully moving boundaries of morality and acceptability in a radical and dangerous direction coming into my neighborhood school and making it's suggestions. Similarly I would not want the Klan, the polygamists, groups that support beastiality or NAMBLA coming into our schools making suggestions NO MATTER HOW SENSIBLE THEY SOUND!

We aren't talking about skin shade or nationality or disability, we are talking about a behavior. Somehow a group of people who practiced a certain BEHAVIOR were able to maneuver themselves into a movement modeled after the civil rights movement.

Here is the mission statement of GLSEN:
The Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network strives to assure that each member of every school community is valued and respected regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity/expression.

To respect regardless of sexual orientation makes no sense at all. Parents are on the lookout for Daniel D. Anderson right now. Daniel Anderson has a sexual orientation toward young girls, really young kills. I'm sorry GLS, I cannot value nor respect his sexual orientation. There are many other sexual orientations that I can't respect. Someone has to draw some lines somewhere.

GLS has decided which orientations they think are acceptable and it includes a few that many in society can't find acceptable. I say GLS is a poor choice to be an arbiter of morality.

This is a bait and switch scheme. A radically liberal group comes into a school making it's suggestions. If you disagree with their presence then, "YOU MUST BE IN FAVOR OF BEATINGS AND MURDER! YOU MUST BE A HOMOPHOBIC CHRISTIAN! YOU BELIEVE IN A STUPID BOOK! JESUS NEVER MENTIONED HOMOSEXUALS! YOU WANT TO KILL CHILDREN FOR DISOBEYING THEIR PARENTS!", and on it goes. GLSEN even listS the talking points to battle any critic.

No, I cannot accept the presence in our schools of a group that encourages acceptance based on sexual orientation. Now if you want to be against violence toward people, ALL people, then I'll stand four square, shoulder to shoulder with you.

"Kay Sodemann said the Gay Straight Alliance posters call schools unsafe."

Then the new school board president was named. The headline "Expulsions on the mind of new school board president" article on Wednesday, April 30, 2008, said they (the school board) will be asking for the public to get involved to curb the expulsions.

Another article: "Board expels five students", Thursday, April 24, 2008 Janesville Gazette: "Five students accused of fighting with or assaulting other students were expelled by the Janesville School Board on Tuesday."

"One high school student was accused of hitting another student with a sock containing a pool ball." Later in the article, "Director of Student Services Karen Schulte said the expelled student struck the victim once in the back, making a large bruise, and was about to strike the victim’s head when a teacher intervened." Later, "The board also expelled a high school student who was accused of “battering another student.” " And later, "A high school student accused of possessing a knife on school grounds, expelled through the end of this school year."

How can you argue with the GSA's claim that schools are unsafe?

How can a meaningful education take place (where a student might learn skills to be a critical thinker) if a student is worried about which student has a knife, a sock with a pool ball or other weapon, and whether or not they are the target?

I find these threads to be so very frustrating. Not that people are voicing their opinions, I love that aspect and the opportunity afforded us by the Gazette. I appreciate hearing from our youth and about what is important to them.

The frustrating aspects (to me anyway) are these:

1. The rants are totally devoid of logic. They are all emotion and bravado with little evidence to the ability to think critically on any topic.
2. The contentiousness is nearly always unwarranted. The anonymity allowed by these forums gives many folks the equivalent of 'beer muscles'. They attack from an inflated and exaggerated position of knowledge that has been neither acquired nor earned. Because there is a lack or critical thinking and logic, the writer makes personal attacks against those he or she disagrees with.
3. There is such an eagerness to be heard that many forget about the topic at hand.
The topic of this thread is NOT about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. It is about supplanting and distracting from the education of our children and the use of schools by ANY group to push it's social agenda.
With the inability to think critically and to form an argument we have created the 'generation whatever'. Penguingurl6 gives us a very clear picture of what is left when one separates thought from logical sequence, from any kind of historical context or connectiveness, from politics, from community and from ethics. Her response is 'whatever'. How can you argue with that?

I think the day of silence should be for remembering the thousands of people who have died years before their time because they chose a lifestyle that kills. Look up the life expectancy of gays and lesbians. Its genocide to promote this lifestyle.

Mikki-Superior, no. But I think you were trying to look a little superior by alluding you came up with that yourself.

Ms_Sassy, touche.

This really needs to just be dropped. What's it matter if someone's gay, bisexual or straight. It does no harm to you. It's just a way of life. There isn't much difference except for who you love. I belive it's okay to be gay, bi or straight. You love who you love, you can't help it and trying to hide it will just make you unhappy. There's other things going out there in the world that we should be concered about. It's okay to have your opinion, but when your doing harm to someone else because of it, that's just crossing the line and wrong. At Craig there was a bunch of posters up saying, "Murdered for being Gay". Violence is not the answer. I happen to go to Craig and I was there on the Day of Silence. I didn't hear about anyone turning gay. As if you just turn gay because of reading a poster or even looking at one. It just doesn't happen that way. Your either born gay, bi or straight. One of my best friends happens to be pansexual and her little sister is bisexual and I'm straight. I've hung out with them both many times and I consider them like family and yet I'm still straight. Some of you act like hanging around someone who's gay or bi will make you gay or bi. It doesn't rub off on you like a cold or flu would. So what if a girl loves a girl or a boy loves a boy, what's so wrong about that? I belive that not loving anyone at all is wrong. Alot of you bring Religion into this, but not everyone's the same Religion or Religious at all. You can be gay or bi and still be Religious. You say that homosexuality is a sin, but if God says its a sin then why would he create it in the first place? I'm looking at the Advertisment at the bottom of this page and it's for www.rainbowchristians.com. You can be gay or bi and still belive in God. There's really nothing wrong with that. If you don't like it, well I say tough. Get over it. Take all your energy and put it towards something that will change the world. Worry about something else. If you haven't noticed gas prices are going up like crazy and the O-Zone layer is being destroyed, why don't you go and care about those issues and not worry anymore about this. Since this isn't an issue. It certainly wasn't last year when GSA had the Day of Silence at Craig High School. Just don't worry about it anymore that's all I ask. (:

I, as well, "borrowed" that post from another blog on this same issue.
My intent was not to make fun of Christianity, but to point out that people say, "Oh, the newer part of the Bible says you can ignore the older parts of the Bible, because those rules were meant for a different time".
It just struck me as odd that people still refer to Leviticus to condemn homosexuality and then say Leviticus has been "over-ruled" by another passage of the Bible.
And, like other posters have pointed out, the Bible was used to justify slavery 150 years ago.
So, it makes quoting the Bible (given to us by the Word of God Himself) a contradictory Book.
What I take from the Bible is the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself, which mainly teaches us how to treat our fellow humans, with love and dignity, and to help those who are less fortunate than ourselves.

Mikki, perhaps the timing was wrong. My post was regarding ongoing comments from tjncj, maxdetail and me. My post was not regarding your post. (although the Bible IS the word of God and I take some offense to having it be made fun of in that regard. You are entitled to your opinion; however, I take the Bible seriously.)

Not to harsh on you more, Mikki, but posting anything written by someone else without giving credit is plagiarism (also known as stealing).
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Let's not get into the whole Bible debate again. You're welcome to read my previous posts to see that homosexuality is written in the New Testament, too, as are a lot of other sins (including many that I have committed and others that I struggle with every day).
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While we're at it, maybe it's time to put this beaten horse to bed. I don't think anything else will be accomplished here ... if anything ever was.

Seeing as I just found the thread today and had a couple minutes, no I didn't, and that is my fault.
But apparently some people make themselves feel better by jumping all over others. They have issues. I admitted mine.

yes. apparently you didn't take the time to read and let the comments I made sink in. (sorry, I couldn't resist. No hard feelings, tjncj?)

Sorry, I got it from a friend, I wasn't aware it was 'stolen'. Excuse me. Guess that's all you can say, huh. Now, did that make you feel all superior? Want a pat on the back?

And sorry that I didn't see the previous poster. My mistake. The OT usage about homosexuality being an abomination, that's what I was getting at.

Amazing, Mikki, that you and jsvlparkergrad had the exact same post!!! He did his a long time ago, and here's what I said to him...

Yes the Old Testament had a lot of strange teachings, like the laws of menustration, animal sacrifice, eating pork, etc., etc. That is considered the "old law," created to show us the impossibility of living a sinless life. Christ's death abolished the old law:
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Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Were you going to give Laura Schlessinger credit for that Mikki, or just take the plagiarism path?

To those that want to quote the Bible, I have some questions, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
For example when I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
And I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
You asked about slavery? Well Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
And if I can own Mexicans, can I just grab some of the neighbors kids? They are just hanging around, doing nothing anyway.
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Should I stone him, shoot him, or rent a woodchipper?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. My husband has bifocals. Does his vision have to be 20/20, what if he has his contacts in?
Most of the guys I know get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? Again, woodchipper?
I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? What about pork rinds? The BBQ Kind?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?(Lev. 20:14) Or I can save money by renting the woodchipper and doing the entire thing at once.

Giddyup

That's the message you were trying to get across? OK.
Well said copperguy, but curlrock is a chop.

thank you, again, copperguy! Your comments and those of Curlrock express what I have been unable to find words to say.
A person, not the "group" s/he belongs to, is what is important, imho.

Hey, Ho! We're finally getting into some real quality discussion here. No offense to the other posters for taking a position...just tht I think we've finally opened the door to some great dialogue.

Curlrock: I couldn't agree with you more. BUT..........

You have touched on one of the hugest (I know...probably not a word) issues of society. A large number of people draw inferences and conclusions about groups based on perception. And that perception is based on the things that stand out. Mention the word "Christian," and many folks picture Jimmy Swagart, Ted Hagerty, etc.. How about "priest?" Images of the sex abuse disaster. "Police?" Some folks see "jack-booted thugs," or bullies abusing their authority. Oh, and how about "gay?" Perhaps some think of "a limp wristed, effeminate fop."

There are two points: First is that the exceptions among any group are the ones who stand out. Second is that those exceptions are most always the exception to the norm.

I used to be one of those folks who would disdain "Christians" (though I am one myself) because of Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swagart. What right, I would ask, does someone like Bob Dornan or Jessie Helms have to stand before Congress or the Senate and spew their venom toward people who are simply different than them in some way?

One day it occurred to me, though, that I have no more right to deny them their rights, than they have to deny me or anyone else our rights. hence, my earlier post about intolerance. And by labeling Christians with the image of Falwell, etc., is unfair to the vast majority of Christians whose opinions are most certainly not those of the vocal minority.

Yes, in some regard Christianity has a PR problem. So do most professions and groups if we paint with a broad brush.

The issues of gay rights and the oppression that non-heterosexual people face are quite real. As a cop, I do see it clearly, especially among young people. Folks conjure up images of what they think a person does or doesn't do in intimacy. Folks believe that they know what is normal and abnormal for all people based on their own experiences. They imagine all sorts of things.

What a lot of people fail to grasp is that gay rights aren't about accepting or condoning or celebrating how a person expresses their love or physical affection. Just as the civil rights movement was to gain equal treatment for PEOPLE who happen to not be white anglo-saxon protestants, gay rights are about equal treatment for PEOPLE who just happen to not be heterosexual. It took special protections to force civil rights for racial minorities, handicapped, etc.. And, so, it takes special protections to force civil rights for sexual minorities.

Sorry Seabee. I counted at least five errors. I didn't have time to proofread my post.

maxdetail and Rocky- It's not my intention to dispute you beliefs. I think a problem that most non-Christians and many Chritians have deals with the "face" of Christianity over the over the past 30 years. This may be what brethefire13 was getting at. I believe this is a real problem that Christianity as a whole has not addressed. Over time, this has alienated many people. What resonates with the non-Christians and maybe more importantly "fringe" Christians, is the likes of, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggaert, Oral Roberts, Ted Haggerty(sp)(sorry Seabee), repesenting the face of Christianity. I know the two of you may be able to name ten other leaders who are not like these men, but the point is many people cant, and that's your problem. You can sy that these men don't represent you views but that has been the face of Chritianity. The response that we all sin does not give these men a pass either. Christainity needs to do better than that or risk pushing more peolple farther away.
I do believe that faith is personal and should not be driven by media type Christians. All I am saying is Christianity has a PR problem and nobody wants to address it.

tjncj, I do read and comprehend the posts here.

I respect the other poster's comments. As I have said before, what I see as the main problem is what is being overlooked and overshadowed by sexual orientation, which is a topic that people tend to be very passionate about.

Here's the funny thing Ms Sassy. I agree with you. I find nothing wrong with the day of silence or the GSA. My kids go to Craig and have gay friends that are welcome in my house. I have no problem with it.
My point is you don't read the other posts carefully or understand Seabee's or Maxdetails points. You just keep posting the same thing over and over. They have valid points and I respect them although I may not agree 100%.

tjncj, the fact that you are of a different opinion than mine does not mean that I don't get it, as your post suggests.

Nor does it mean that because you don't like what I say that I don't get to say it.

Perhaps you might decide that your harsh tone and mean words is an example of precisely the bullying approach that some want to eradicate.

There is an old saying, "To the man whose only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Seabee-She is never gonna get your point, one track mind, says the same thing over and over. About 3 dozen times yesterday on various blogs.

well all I can say is that bullying, violence and trying to appear "better" (or will stand better before God on reckoning day) than someone else is wrong. I don't care what/who a person is.

If awareness about violence against some or all students on campuses around the country is wrong in your opinion, so be it.

maxdetail-...That post makes the most sense as any I've ever read, especially at the end.

Ms. sassy, you are missing my point. If I get beat down because I am wearing $500 shoes and somebody else wants them, what is the difference between that and a gay person being beat down because he/she is gay? Either way, a beat down still occurs. Do you think that the perp of either crime really gives a rip about one victim or the other? I am not advocating violence against anybody, except perps. What you are saying in effect is, since so and so is gay, they should not recieve a beat down. You are trying to make being gay some sort of special status above and beyond being straight, with a nice pair of shoes. And lets say we really raise awareness about gay issues, and pass a few nonsensical laws protecting the now special status of gay people. Do you think that a gay person will then feel like "hey, I got special laws protecting me now so I think I will walk through this thug infested neighborhood at midnight because nobody will hurt me because I am gay and have special protection under the law?" I think not. This whole thing seems to me to be a bunch of pandering to a group of people who seem to feel like they should be specially protected from the cruelties of the world because of their gender preferences.

you are right, Seabee...I'm against violence wherever it occurs.

being a victim of a theft and getting beat down in the act IS NO LESS of a crime.

The fact remains that people who are "different" than you and I (use whatever group you choose...disabled, gay, lesbian, etc, or black or Hispanic....)are (but SHOULD NOT be) treated differently, and often times, violently. That is what I am against.

Actually, this is about a persons orientation. "The alliances have been hanging informational posters around their schools all week, leading up to the annual Day of Silence, a nationally organized effort to protest bullying of students who are lesbian, gay or transgender". Evidently, only the gay students get bullied.

this is about a person's basic right to protection of life, liberty, and property.

AGAIN, this is NOT about a person's sexual orientation and whether or not you agree with the choices a person makes regarding partners.

This IS, however, about a person's right to attend public schools, receive an education and personal fulfillment in an atmosphere that is not hostile, aggressive, oppressed or violent.

I can't imagine that every Christian wouldn't support that mission. People wanting to exist in a safe world and expressing their concern when violence occurs; AND making a stand against violence.

Sassy, I have been beaten, bullied and ridiculed at one time in my life or another. Never murdered though. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of murder victims weren't gay. I'm not gay, yet all those other things you mentioned happened to me, and probably most people. Seems to me that gay people are looking for special treatment, not equal treatment. Does it really matter why any of those things you mentioned happen? I think not. This issue is just like the hate crime issue. Technically, aren't all crimes hate crimes? If i get a beat-down because somebody wants to steal my shoes, am I less of a crime victim than say a gay person who gets beat down? I'm not being flippant or sarcastic here, I just honestly believe that the line of logic these groups are using is flawed.

Ms_Sassy,
I don't have the right not to be ridiculed or bullied, and beating or murdering anybody is punishable by law. I have three friends who are homosexuals who also don't have the right not to be ridiculed or bullied but if somebody beats them I will work to see the beater prosecuted. If somebody murders them I will work to see them executed.

These laws and rights are on the books and offer equal protection regardless of skin shade, creed, gender or sexual lifestyle. This infiltration of the school is all about establishing special rights, redefining marriage, and main streaming behavior that goes against both God and biology.

seabee: treatment that you don't have? beaten up or murdered, bullied and blatant ridicule, for starters.

I am hoping that one day all of humanity can live in peace.

Dear breathefire13, I really do appreciate the time you took write your concerns. You share your thoughts well. I know you were writing to Rocky but I would sure like to address some of the things you said and perhaps clear up a few misconceptions.

Your are correct to believe that Christians have no right to bash you or even criticize you based on their cleanliness, righteousness or standing before God. Unfortunately, Television and movies and large parts of the culture have stereotyped Christians as self-righteous hicks who love to look down on others. I'm offended by that but in many ways we brought it on ourselves. Christians certainly have their own large section in the lunatic fringe.

Your generalization is as offensive to me as I suppose it offends a homosexual being portrayed as a limp wristed, effeminate fop. A Christian has no righteousness of his own, he's not clean and cannot stand before a holy God without a just mediator. I am as fit for Hell as you are. God doesn't judge on a curve, we all, without exception, stand guilty as sin of sin.
I cannot judge you but God judges us all and he does leave us to flip coins about what sin is, he is clear about what is right and what is wrong.

A Christian is one to whom God has revealed our utterly ruined condition and condemnation. I won't condemn you breathefire13, for I believe we are both condemned already. The Christian trusts that Jesus Chris sacrificed himself as an atonement and satisfied God's wrath against us. The Christian is one who struggles against sin out of gratitude for what God has done to redeem us. Some struggle more successfully than others, I am no more pleasing to him today then I was 50 years ago yet in Christ I am saved from the penalty of sin.

The Bible does establish government and charges government to judge and punish the evil doer. I am neither a governor nor judge but it is my obligation to warn my fellow traveler that he or she is breaking God's law and is in danger of suffering the consequences from government and/or God. You would agree we can't drive one hundred miles an hour in a school zone wouldn't we. We can't do whatever we want.

If there is a Creator, (the Christian believes there is a Creator) then his creatures are responsible to HIm. I am not the law and neither are you. What a fix we'd be in if everyone did what they thought was right in their own eyes.

The rest of the world doesn't think America is a bunch of backward hicks, they think we are pornographers. They see our shows, they believe we are sex crazed, sex obsessed Britanys and Paris Hiltons and Queer Eye For the Straight Guy. They don't want any part of 'freedom' if freedom means license. I can't say that I blame them.

Exactly what treatment and rights do gay people not have that I do??

Okay Rocky you dont think I'm real. I don't really care.

The only reason I have an issue with the majority of the christian population is because they bash my lifestyle when half of them aren't nearly as clean, just, and righteous as they seem. I am sickened by the fact that they can act high and mighty like they are God. No one has the right to judge anyone else. Doesn't the bible actually say to not judge others lest you be judged yourself. Only god should have the right to judge anyone. I used to believe in God and have faith, but now all i see is corrupted people pointing fingers in his name. It's beyond sad.

Honestly all gay people really want is to have the same rights and treatment as everyone else. Is that too much to ask?

Oh and by the way I'm sure that wearing a shirt and tie on a hot day is really not that big of a deal. And i seriously doubt that people really care about what you wear. It's completely irrelevant.

Not all homosexuals, bisexuals, nor pansexuals have sex before marriage. Not that they're allowed to even get married because of pompous politicans that are so close minded they cannot accept any other way of life than their own.

Jeez. No wonder the rest of the world thinks America is a bunch of backwards hicks that are uneducated.

Stop judging other people and focus on fixing all of your problems. This world is a messed up place enough as it is without more arguing and fighting.

maxdetail wrote:

“I don't have to accept your worldview, however, I'd better be able to defend mine as a better alternative to yours, otherwise I have no right to try and poke holes in yours. I look forward to doing this with anyone.”

tjncj wrote:
“He never did "object to that" Ms_Sassy. You keep posting but never take the time to read carefully or comprehend what maxdetail (or anyone else on any post for that matter) sink in first.”

What is there to sink in, tjncj? Maxdetail appears to believe that he has a “better alternative” of a worldview than I do. Nothing I say, obviously, will “poke” a big enough “hole” in his error in judgment to change that, and I, quite frankly, don’t feel the need to argue, as it will be wasted energy.

I was raised to treat people as they would like to be treated. This is my reason to defend the rights of students who are being bullied, beaten and abused on school campuses and has as much to do with my worldview or my spirituality as much as it has to do with treating humans with respect.

thank you, copperguy!

hmmmm....I "keep" and I "never"

sound like fairly closed minded and absolute statements to me

He never did "object to that" Ms_Sassy. You keep posting but never take the time to read carefully or comprehend what maxdetail (or anyone else on any post for that matter) sink in first.

Here's the thing. I don't WANT to tell you what to do/believe. But, I sure don't want you to tell ME what to do/believe, either.

We MUST find a way to live in this world together, bear one another's burdens and let people see that we are all made from the same "cloth".

I do not feel that MY way of seeing things or my opinion is best. But I don't want to be told it's inferior or wrong either.

There are people who make errors in judgment and there are those who have criminal thinking. They are not necessarily one in the same and I believe that I will be shown in due time when I have an error in thinking.

I firmly believe it is WRONG, however, to allow bullying on school campuses to continue.

I would love it if people would go around and hang posters in the halls of the schools that remind people to take care of their neighbor, to help when they can, and to bear one another's burdens to the best of their ability. If they cannot help by doing any of the above, maybe posters could be hung up that just read: We all have to live one day at a time. If you can help me to get through this one, tomorrow I'll help you?

Would you object to that?

GSA and its members seem to me to be saying that discrimination, harassment, bullying, etc., against those who are - or are perceived to be - different is not acceptable. It also seems that they are saying this is an issue that far too many people have been silent about for far too long.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing about GSA that throws the bedroom happenings of anyone into anyone else's face. There doesn't seem to be anything in the posters that proclaims intimate sexual contact. There are many people - of many sexual orientations - who are not sexual at all. Yet, they know their identity. The posters, website, and DOS do not seem to proclaim sex of any kind. Rather, they talk about the PEOPLE who are gay, lesbian, bi, trans, etc..

I have seen postings here proclaiming to "hate the sin but love the sinner," but are totally against GSA and the DOS. Since the organization and the event are all about the PEOPLE (read, "sinner"), shouldn't those folks be shouting the praises of the organization and event instead of condemning them? Some of those posters seem to be the ones who are taking an event that is about the people and turning it into an event that is about imagined acts.

Ms_Sassy, tell me what it is that you want me to do. Am I to accept that others have a different view than I do? I do. Then you also say I'm to accept that different view? So which are you demanding I accept?

Should we hold every opinion with equal value and truth? Should I accept every view that every person holds? Should we have a line we draw somewhere? You perceive some as having an intolerant view. Won't you accept their view even though it's not yours. Can I place posters in the schools that encourage kids to please don't be rude to intolerant people and support their causes?

No, we can't all just get along for the reason you've already stated, it's simplistic. Our culture is not simplistic.

Everyone of us has a different worldview but each worldview answers four questions:

What is our origin? Where can we find meaning? How do we define ethics? and what is our destiny?

I don't have to accept your worldview, however, I'd better be able to defend mine as a better alternative to yours, otherwise I have no right to try and poke holes in yours. I look forward to doing this with anyone. But just barking out an idea doesn't make it valuable or true.

I'm not saying I'm right Ms_Sassy, I'm defending my right, and the rights of those of similar mindset, to disagree without having to be called 'phobic, fundamentalist christian, intolerant, nazi, etc.'

I am against bullying anyone, against beating anyone, against murdering anyone. I love people and I respect you.

Interesting take, maxdetail.

If you read my comments from an earlier post:

I am completely overwhelmed by the vast number of people who are totally incapable of living peacefully next to others who are different than they are. Everyone wants to "celebrate" their individuality and not live "in a box", yet cannot accept that others have a different perception of life. To get overly simplistic, WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

I want to not only appreciate other people's views, I want to try to understand them. To me, you are dismissing the fact that others have a different view than you do.

Breathefire13 - I'm not even sure you are for real, but I'll do you the honor of assuming you are genuine.

-----

First, thanks for helping me make my point. Being pansexual (sexual without regard to gender) is simply the next step on that slope I mentioned earlier. Clearly the trend is to more and more immorality - and make no mistake about it, sexual behavior outside of a man/woman marriage is immoral, regardless of the gender of the persons involved. That being said, basically what you do in your bedroom is your own business, and I would appreciate you being silent about it all the time -not just one day per year. I simply don't need or want to know, and I am offended when you push your sexuality in my face. My Christian morality doesn't have to apply to you or effect how you live. If you don't want me to confront your behavior then don't tell me that it is ok and that I have to accept it as normal - because that will never happen. Just live your iife quietly and I'll do the same. Not only that, but I'll defend your right to live as you please and agree with you that you should not be discriminated against for your beliefs (as I hope you'd do for me and my Christian beliefs - even though they are polar opposite from your own.) Guess what? I get stared at when I wear a suit and tie on hot summer Sundays. Do I whine about it and declare a "day of protest" because someone stared at me because I'm different? Nope. Let 'em stare good and hard. I'm over it.

----

However, you are correct in one thing...love is for everyone. The lie you've bought into is that love = sex, and therefore sex is for everyone all the time. Sorry - that is a lie, and when someone pushes the lies of their agenda on my children and family, I will counter with the truth.

---------

The "Day of Silence" is billed as a day to protest discrimination. That is fine. The problem comes in when it also emphasizes the "homosexulaity is normal and acceptable" mantra, then I stand in opposition.

Ms_sassy,
It's apparent from your contentious tone that you are more interested in stirring the pot than seeking to be understood. You give the impression that like change for the sake of change and care little about the consequences. It's equally apparent through your use of straw man arguments that you do not wish to have a dialogue. You have been heard and I appreciate your contribution. Have a great day miss.

btw: I'm straight. I'm not "defending" gay, lesbian, bi-sexual or transgender populations, mostly because I don't need to.

So what AM I doing? I'm saying that EVERY individual, EVEN a gay, lesbian, bi-sexual or transgender individual AND EVERY individual has the right to go to school and receive an education without fear of being bullied, beaten, killed, etc. Where is the weakness in that?

And your comment that my question was without reason was offensive. Protesting in order to bring awareness to the problem of bullying on nearly every school campus is not affecting a student's education, but is EDUCATING the students that accepting people IN SPITE OF THEIR DIFFERENCES is a GOOD thing.

http://www.dayofsilence.org/content/trut...

please refer to the link above. pay particular attention to the item #4:

The day is most successful when schools and students work together to show their commitment to ensuring safe schools for all students. Many schools allow students’ participation throughout the day. Some schools ask students to speak as they normally would during class and remain silent during breaks and at lunch.

The educational experience continued as usual. It is unrealistic to assume that a student not answer a question during an Algebra class because it was the Day of Silence.

People with closed minds cannot accept that there are people in the world who do not think like they do. Sorry to ruin your day, but you do NOT have all the answers and might want to take a look at the world around you and realize there are many MANY people out here with a different view. It DOESN'T make the different views WRONG.

Dear ms_sassy_wi,

I will answer your question, you asked:

"are you saying it is OK to kill/beat up/verbally abuse a person because of his/her sexual orientation?"

Nobody is saying it is OK to kill anyone. There are laws against taking a life unjustly. It is not OK to kill a homosexual, pan-sexual, bi-sexual, (insert your preference)-sexual, Muslim, Jew, Christian, anyone because of skin shade. Murder is against the law. You don't need a special day to make murder more against the law. You don't need to put up posters to say that murdering a homosexual is worse than any other murder.

If someone believes that tax funded state education is more efficient when it's not interrupted by social activism, it doesn't follow logically that THAT person thinks it's ok to murder.

Reason for a moment. You see a mom feeding her baby, an important task. You walk up to her and say, "Put down that food and stand on your head to show you are against bullying homosexuals." She says, "No my baby needs to eat." You say, "Then I guess you are for bullying homosexuals and even killing them."

Can you see the weakness in your argument? I know you are committed to your cause and you're all excited but don't coerce and then judge your neighbors for not feeling the same passion you do. You'll find that most of your neighbors are not murderers or supporters of murder but they do care about how the kids in the neighborhood are receiving or NOT receiving a basic education.

"I love Lamp, I LOVE lamp"-Brick Hamlin, "Anchorman".

Sorry, couldn't resist......

I currently attend Craig High School and am a senior there. This issue is very important to me because of how close to home it hits. My younger sister is bisexual and my boyfriend is a transsexual. I myself am a pansexual. Look it up if you don't know what it is. When i heard that people were trying to take away the Day of Silence I was angered by this. People should have the right to participate in Day of Silence. It is about stopping violence, isn't that something we all should want? It's not like it is a requirement by the school. People can choose not to participate as well.

I remember what it feels like to be stared at just for holding the hand of a girl. You cannot possibly imagine how much that hurts someone to be condemned because of who they care for. Love is love people. Don't let hidden agendas of Christianity get in the way of spreading ideas. There is nothing disgusting about homosexuality. There is something disgusting about ignorant people pointing fingers at the gay community for "corrupting" children. People should really have more faith in their children. Putting up posters about gays that were murdered if anything is going to make them not want to be gay. And i HIGHLY doubt that putting up posters about famous homosexuals is going to "convert" anyone. Being gay isn't something you choose.

so, now that the day of silence is over...and disruption was minimal,

to those who protest the Day of Silence: are you saying it is OK to kill/beat up/verbally abuse a person because of his/her sexual orientation?

Copperguy, do you know what the meaning of oppression even is? Apparently you dont so why not read what the meaning of it.
Oppression is the act of using power to empower and/or privilege a group at the expense of disempowering, marginalizing, silencing, and subordinating another. Note: Oppression does not need established organizational support; it can be rendered on a much smaller individual scale. It is particularly closely associated with nationalism and derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression
I am not the one who is narrow minded, I tolerate all kinds of people everyday, but I can choose whether or not to accept their views, lifestyle or anything else for that matter. Besides narrow minded people cannot think outside the box and look at things as a whole. If you think that the GSA network is not out to promote an agenda then you are the one who is narrow minded and has blinders on.

you guys are being laaaaaaaame.
the day of silence is kinda over.
has been for like three days.
so you didnt get your way.
< well some did >
all this story was about was hanging posters.
and they were allowed to hang them,
AND they had thier *gasp* day of silence.
oh no!
people didnt talk!
the world is coming to an end!!!!

Pudssweetie: I didn't talk about number 3 because it is narrow in its focus. Numbers 1 and 3 are broad. They are not limited in their focus. You asked, "tell me where they are teaching tolerance of all..." I pointed out that number 1 applies to "other oppressions," while number 3 applies to "discrimination, harassment, and violence" which, again, is quite general.

You are focusing on the narrowly written number 2, and ignoring the broadly written number 1 and number 3. Read without blinders and you will see the answer.

pudssweetie - So, according to your logic, a Christian student organization would neeed to teach others about tolerance of homosexuals, Muslims, the handicapped, vegans, and blonds?

Why is it not acceptable for an organization to have a more narrow (and managable) focus?

Copperguy, I find it funny how you took the time to read my post, yet you only post 2 of the three GSA missions. You pointed out #1 and #3 but left out #2 which states: Educate the school community about HOMOPHOBIA, GENDER IDENTITY and SEXUAL ORIENTATION ISSUES. Hmmmm, I don't see anything that says to educate the school community about blacks, Asians, the kid in a wheel chair, the girl who is developmentally disabled. The point I was trying to get across was tolerance needs to be taught for ALL who are different, not just a specific group of students that GSA is promoting.

there are plenty of other groups of people who are trying to break the silence of living in fear and oppression. I am familiar with domestic violence and sexual assault victims rallying during "Take Back the Night" events, which are intended to break the silence and give a forum for people to understand the power of speaking out.

“It takes two people to speak the truth: One to speak and another to hear.” – Henry David Thoreau

I am completely overwhelmed by the vast number of people who are totally incapable of living peacefully next to others who are different than they are. Everyone wants to "celebrate" their individuality and not live "in a box", yet cannot accept that others have a different perception of life. To get overly simplistic, WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!

Again - I'm not a theologian or any type of authority, but I believe platonic intimacy is acceptable. The Bible only prohibits sexual intimacy between unmarried couples (regardless of gender).

So what is considered "sexual" and what is not? Tough question. I ask myself what my wife would consider sexual if I engaged in it with another woman. A brief hug? No big deal. Long, lingering cuddling? Out of the question. Kissing? That would be a problem. I guess the line would have to be behavior that leads to sexual arousal versus that which does not.

-----

It is no secret that many women maintain very intimate friendships with other women while happily married. They are not homosexual, do not engage in sexual activity with their friends. but do share a lot emotionally. This is right and good. Emotional intimacy does not need sexual intimacy to be complete.

------

Again - not sure if that really helps or is even within the bound of orthodoxy, but that is my humble opinion.

Rocky wrote: What this does not preclude is non-sexual intimacy - which, in the end, is deeper and more rewarding, anyway.

Thanks for your response. If I'm understanding you correctly, you feel then that it is ok for two homosexual people to have an intimate relationship together (nonsexual intimacy) as long as they don't have sex (i.e. they are essentially practicing celibacy).

That being the case. Where does the nonsexual intimacy stop and the sexual intimacy begin. Holding hands, a hug, a kiss? I am assuming that you don't feel that homosexuals shouldn't feel love or nonsexual intimacy from another.

Curlock wrote:

----

"Rocky your post is well thought out and makes a lot of sense. However, you admit that homosexuality may not be a choice. Are you suggesting that these individuals never have sex even in a committed relationship. You're saying that God made them homosexual but doesn't want them to have an intimate relationship with another. Why do you suppose God would do that to someone?"

-------

An excellent question - and I'm not sure I can fully explain, but I'll do my best.

-----

God, IMHO, does call some to a life of celibacy. The gift of sexuality is a wonderful thing, but intended only to be shared between one man and one woman in the official union of marriage. SO sexual intimacy is, indeed, limited. Like many things, this is a difficult teaching, but one that has very obvious advantages. Just think of the disease and unexpected pregnancies that would never happen if this was followed. But there are those who choose not to follow God , and so if they choose to not follow the rules, that is to be expected.

------

What this does not preclude is non-sexual intimacy - which, in the end, is deeper and more rewarding, anyway.

------

So why does God "do that to someone"? It is like saying "why does God allow cancer?" or "Why does God make children die?" Theologians say that this is not "caused" by God, but part of the state of our fallen, sinful world. A natural consequence of our sin nature. It is not the fault of any individual's sin (for example, a baby that dies has not sinned and their death is certainly not the fault of their sin or that of their parents), but the general condition of imperfection that exists in human nature. The perfect (God) nature would only desire sex within the marriage. The fallen (human) nature desires sex all the time. It is our job to try to replace the human nature with the God nature, dying to selfish desires and choosing the higher path.

-----

But let me state again that it is not in God's nature to discriminate against the homosexual. It is also not correct to glorify the sin. I am forced to realize that the sin of homosexual behavior is no different from my own sin, and am called to compassion, not criticism.

One thought I hope everyone here will read and consider. After many years of careful consideration, I have decided that the best thing to remember is this:

Being intolerant of an intolerant makes you an intolerant.

This doesn't mean that we need to let folks harm others, nor does it mean we cannot debate a point. What it does mean is that, in the end, everyone has a right to their beliefs.

I have read some very hateful and vitriolic posts in this forum. Those who believe that their Bible has a significant importance are no less valid human beings than those who believe the Bible is just a book. And vice versa.

Some people on both sides need to get rid of the hate and learn the true meaning of tolerance.

Off topic, I know. But hopefully someone will find value in this post.

Earlier, pudssweetie posted the three goals of GSA. S/he went on to plead, "So you tell me where they are teaching tolerance of all who are different."

Yet, the answer is right there in the post:
"1. create safe environments in schools for students to support each other and learn about homophobia and other oppressions,"

and

"3. fight discrimination, harassment, and violence in schools."

Note in number 1, the words "other oppressions." Also, note in number 3 that there is no language limiting it to sexual orientation. In fact, it is quite broad.

swtilone2 - "Actually I'm proud they stoop up for their rights."

I am sure you have no idea how ironic that typo is...

Goddess is coming and SHE is pissed off!

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." Ghandi

I would agree this discussion has gone far afield of the original issue.

The part that bothers me most about many of these comments is that whether or not the posters are up in the schools has absolutely no effect on you whatsoever as a straight. I am directly affected by homophobic attitudes on a daily basis, and though there's been a great deal of open discussion about gays in the last two decades -- frankly, I think there's a lot more educating that needs to be done. The schools are a great place. Why? Because it's an Educational Institution!! There are lots of adolescents struggling with their sexuality at that age, sexual development is part of Health Class in high school and for young people to know they are in a safe environment is HUGE to their development. Are those against a GSA club proposing we all stick our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist?

OK, this has gotten way out of hand from the original issue, hanging the posters. I don't think it's appropriate to hang them because I think the issue needs to remain out of school. (Why not have a day to acknowledge all bullying instead?) Look what it has led to...anger, frustration, etc.. I guess we all have to agree to disagree, I'm moving on. Sorry to have offended anyone. Goodnight.

It really perplexes me how people want to define a persons worth in life for something that they do on average 30 or 40 minutes a week behind closed doors. How about the straight perverts? Because they are hetrosexual will they go to heaven? I am a practicing christian who looks at the worth of a person for how they treat others, what they do to better this world and what sort of a citizen they are. I think God will too.

UpNorth, it doesn't take a lot of effort to check your facts -- especially if you're going to hold her up as your PosterChild for Turned Straight. I'm suggesting you not enter into the contest of Famous Gays with me, because that one you will lose -- you're out of league. And when it comes time for judgment, I feel pretty secure about my track record -- especially when it comes to condemning others and self-righteousness. But thanks for your concern.

Sorry, I'm not up on how to spell everyone's name. And I'm not having anyone "on my team", just an example. I'd probably go nuts if I had a father like hers also. I'm not going into the bi thing either. My point is this, if you're born gay how can you enjoy both sexes????If you want to call yourself the winner of the argument, fine by me, it's not I who will be your judge.

http://www.ourlivesmadison.com/

First of all it's Anne Heche and she was only with Ellen DeGeneres, no other woman. She would then be bisexual. Hmmm.. there is an accepted notion that sexuality is on a continuum and that's why people may be only with opposite sex, and only with same sex, or may be monogamous with partners of either sex. I find this amusing, but you are headed in a direction with me that you are not going to win. Anne Heche also was found walking aimlessly into a stranger's home -- she's not someone I would claim to be stable for either end of the continuum. Seriously, no one wants to claim her on their team.

I'll give you a famous person for one, Anne Hech, she left Ellen to marry a man...otherwise you wouldn't know anyone I know personally

UpNorthWi Said: "If someone is born gay then how is it that they have gone straight? Nobody answered that either, it does happen."

Then why are you asking this question and claiming to make such a definitive statement? I don't think you are as enlightened as you believe yourself to be. Everything you say is speculation. I am speaking from personal experience and I don't feel my sexuality is an "affliction," and I take offense at your statement.

Read 1 Peter 1:3-25, Luke 12:8-10 then you will see what I mean, I'm not the one determinting anything! And, no, these aren't people who "couldn't find support for who they are". +When one truly turns their life over to God, every part, He has the power to heal ALL afflictions.

"when you see God and He judges you, it won't be pretty"
And who are you to make that determination?

UpNorthWI: If sexuality is a wordly choice, when you did consciously choose to be straight? When I grew up, I feigned being straight because I thought there was something inherently wrong with me -- it never felt right, but in 1970's I didn't know that I could be gay -- no one ever talked about it. And once I grew up, I learned that I had been surrounded by mentors that were gay as a child that could have helped me through a very difficult time, but feared coming out. Instead I struggled for years, a decade actually, before I came to realize that I could be gay and happy and live without shame. I knew plenty who couldn't find that path. Some were rejected by their families, some committed suicide, some struggled to fit into the mainstream for years longer until they could find support. GSA gives people support and teaches people not to be afraid to be gay, or afraid of gays. So to your question of being born gay and "gone straight" -- who are you talking about? I would think that's someone who couldn't find the support to be who they really are.

perhaps I'm confused, but it seems that when we stopped saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school ending, of course, with: "LIBERTY and justice FOR ALL" is when the hatred really started being openly displayed in public places and grew to be "ok".

Hatred of others is NOT OK, it says so in the Pledge of Allegiance.

what I'm trying to say is that God allows us to choose to obey or not, it's all part of original sin. I don't believe that He would create someone to be gay, that it is a worldly choice, and He leaves His door open for us to repent and change our ways. What I asked earlier was this: if someone is born gay then how is it that they have gone straight? Nobody answered that either, it does happen. I'm not a bible scholar, I'll be the first to admit that, I'll have to find my Serendipity Bible to look things up, it's an excellent resource I highly reccomend!

So homosexuals just got the short straw and have to live with it. I am a little confused. I'm not sure that explanation really answers the question of, why they cant have an intimate relation ship with the one they love just like you and me? If your answer is because that's what the bible says, I'll respect that. You note that you believe God did create temptations and sinful things but that really doesn't answer my question, Why God would do that to somebody?

curlock
I try real hard to think as not to sound like a know it all or offensive, so thank you. I think it all goes back to Genesis when God saw Adam as needing a perfect partner and creating Eve. Once again, Eve, woman. We were created in God's image, perfect. But, Eve was tricked and ate the "apple" and sin began. That was when people were given the choice to obey or disobey. If God states, and He clearly does many times, that homsexuality is a sin, then why would He create something that is unpleasing to Him? If homosexuals are created as so, then how does one repent and try to change and live as God would want? It's so hard to understand the bible and we could question everything about it but I just have faith, ya know?

A few Parker students wore anti-GSA day tags. Didn't surprise me at all. Actually I'm proud they stoop up for their rights.

Great job to everyone who participated in the Day of Silence today. It was a huge success, and I'm pretty sure it didn't turn anyone gay, either! GASP!

upnorthwi- You seem like you think through your comments. Perhaps you would like to take a stab at the question I posed to Rocky below.

Jsvlparkergrad: Just wanted to say "thanks" for the laugh. Love the post. I don't have any answers, but I think no. 4 (Canadians vs. Mexicans) has something to do with NAFTA and the weak dollar.

marriedtojanesville - THANKS MUCH AND YOU GO GIRL! You may see us up there sooner than you think!

I'm not sure that ANYONE involved in this "discussion" ever said they hated homosexuals. We will ALL be juded one day because we have all sinned and fallen short. Why do you get so upset when the bible is brought up if you don't believe? Is there something nudging you(Holy Spirit maybe) to maybe think twice about your beliefs? Christains are far from perfect and never claimed to be, we're just trying to open the eyes of people, that's all. I DO NOT advocate hate crime or anything of the sort towards anyone for any reason, and I haven't seen anyone else here do that either. You know, a LOT of Christians that I know became one after living a life that was self gratifying and going down a path to nowhere, and I bet one day some of these people that have said all this negative stuff about the Christian life will become one too...scary isn't it. It's NOT an easy life but the end reward will be awesome...

Rocky your post is well thought out and makes a lot of sense. However, you admit that homosexuality may not be a choice. Are you suggesting that these individuals never have sex even in a committed relationship. You're saying that God made them homosexual but doesn't want them to have an intimate relationship with another. Why do you suppose God would do that to someone?

I just drove by Craig High School. All the boy's and all the girls were holding hands as they were walking out of school. The posters have special powers after all.

lgirl - wow. That is a lot of anger. Don't let that eat you up inside. You are correct in saying that discrimination is wrong. Too many "christians" rant about homosexuality and wink at heterosexual sin. You can't separate the two. But before you condemn Jesus and the Christian faith, you need to remember something. Jesus hung out with the prostitutes and tax collectors in his day. I'm sure he would have hung out with the homosexuals today. But he would also tell them what he told his friends 2000 years ago: Don't keep on sinnig. Your sexual orientation may or may not be a choice, but your sexual behavior is always a choice. The same standards apply to heterosexual and homosexual people. Abstinance only outside of a one man-one woman marriage.

----

The good news is that Jesus came to forgive sins and encourage repentance That does not give anyone license to do whatever they want, but it does mean that no matter what you've done, you can be forgiven. And despite how you feel about Jesus right now, He still loves you. It is a crazy, illogical love. No matter what - you can't get rid of it.

-----

So are homosexual acts sin? yes. So are heterosexual acts outside marriage. Does that mean anyone should be discriminated against because of that sin? Of course not. Discrimination is a sin, too - making that preachy "christian" who discriminates against the homosexual equally as guilty.

how can you say that "god will judge me" because i have compassion for my fellow man?
why are you so high and mighty? who says you won't be the one judged for hating you fellow man?

oh please, we "atheists" are in just as much favor with God as you (even if there is one)
just because you hate people and cite bible verses doesn't make it right....

they used biblical verses to validate:
-slavery
-segregation
-apartheid
-the holocaust
-abuses against native americans

so it isn't that failsafe

lgirl, I'd rather live by a book and if I'm wrong, it didn't hurt anything, but when you see God and He judges you, it won't be pretty

lgirl-you're just waiting for someone to rip on you,so you can put down god & the bible more.you wrote,you support the day of silence. hmm!!!!if you support it,why are you talking so much?

It’s entertaining to read all the biblical quotes from atheists trying so hard to discredit what they do not accept or understand. Why don't they quote from their own vast resources of atheistic literature? Perhaps because the sources are few and the best of them tend to change their minds when they face their eternity.

dodgegirl18
I feel your frustration and said yesterday that I was done with this, but I still read on anyways. What you should say instead of not agreeing with some of the bible says is this, that those laws were old testamnet laws when people were required to follow the law word for word and choose the best lamb for sacrifices etc.. but since Christ came, the perfect lamb ,He was sacrificed for our sins and basically those are now the old laws. (eating pork, covering our heads etc.) BUT, greed, lust, homosexuality etc. is still brought up in the New Testament AFTER Christ died, and these are things we all need to avoid best we can. Granted, Christ forgives when WE ASK Himt but it doesn't give us a "free pass" to do as we please. I gotcha hun!!

For all of you "wonderful" Christians on here, I am telling you now to shove it. Yes, I'm atheist, so you can throw your little passages and rants at me on how you think the bible and your so called God have the right to tell people how to be and live their lives, but I really don't care. If you want to be a blinde little person and let a book lead your life, that's cool, but it's THEIR lives, not yours or "God". Discrimination is wrong, I don't care if you are judging someones sexual orientation or the color of their skin, it's immature and completely idiotic. They are just as much of a person as you are, and they have the same right, which is also written in the Constitution that this country is based on, called FREE WILL. Learn that, respect it, and get over yourselves. I'm very proud of Craig and all the students that choose to take part in Day Of Silence, along with everyone else that supports this day. Discrimination has lasted long enough, it needs to end now.

Right Wing = in the closet

I am disappointed in the school board for being upset with the decison of a school organization to do something to try and change their school. the gsa is only trying to help students realize that discrimination against anyone because of their sexual orientation is wrong along with all the other discriminating things our schools do. im a senior at craig and i think that the gsa is brilliant for having us participate in the day of silence.

Pretty sure that there are bigger issues going on happening in this world right now, we have had atleast 5,000 troops die in Iraq and Johns Hopkins Universtiy estimates that atleast 1 million Iraqi civilians have died as a result of our war.....Darfur suffers now more than ever....our economy crumbles before our eyes....Israel denies peace from the once violent Hamas....why aren't we as motivated for that? why is it that we get worked up about people who aren't going to change anyway, they're born that way.....we have to END THE WAR!!!! we have to do it now!

p.s. Led Zeppelin is getting back together too

jsvlparkergrad:
Read my previous posts about my attitude on love, especially the one that says that if Christians would have pointed out my sin the way they do homosexuals' I would have never become a Christian. Bear that in mind for the rest of this post, please. It is my desire here to explain the Bible, not condemn homosexuals or anyone else.
---
The law was established through Moses, but before him, God had made other commands and handed out other punishments (Sodom, Noah).
If you read the account of Sodom being destroyed, it gives an example outside the law. Also, all sex outside marriage is sin (a sin that I too have committed, as well as others from the passage below).
---
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
---
End of the Bible study. You are welcome to contact me directly if you would like to discuss further. For the Christians on this site, please read your Bible, learn what it says and then have intelligent debates with others on this site. If you know the word of God, you won't paint yourself into a corner from where you feel you must lash out in anger. Remember, those who want to correct must also be willing to accept correction.

Relax, people. According to census, we have the same percentage of gayness as Wyoming...
Dodgegirl, be sure you stay in WI and don't go near a scary place like CA or NYC! Idaho would be MUCH better- wait, that fine republican Larry Craig isn't around anymore. Where'd he go?

http://www.gaydemographics.org/USA/USA.h...

Also, note that gays tend towards higher income.... better not let that one slip.. kids all over will be going FAB-U-LOUS to get rich and see San Francisco! The horrors!

Footville student, hang in there. You;ll be out of high school soon and can leave that little redneck microcosm. Isn't Parkview all in arms because of students leaving their district through open enrollment? Hello people!

Intolerance and hatred is taught, not inherent. Some commenting here appear to be trying to foster and advance their prejudices for they love their religious dogma and institutions over promoting love of their fellow human beings. Paraphrasing, I believe the Bible also has a passage about "a child shall lead them"... Thank goodness most students/young people posting are growing up more compassionate, understanding and caring than far too many others. You are demonstrating ethics and morals that are far more honorable and courageous in action than any institutionalized religious agenda. Well done, younger generation!

How did this post turn into a Bible study? If you go to the web site, their agenda is not to turn your children gay, but to bring to the foreground the issue of bulling in schools. Gay/Straight Alliance is what in the 60's you could have called the White/Black Alliance, being allied with someone doesn't make you a part of the group, it just means you support them and defend them from harm. Definition of alliance:an organization of people (or countries) involved in a pact or treaty.

Just to answer some of the questions...

According to 2004 FBI statistics, hate crimes based on sexual orientation constituted the third highest category reported and made up 15.5 percent of all reported hate crimes.

Sexual identity isn't a preference, choice, nor necessarily a lifestyle. The same goes for gender identity. The only "choice" about either of these is to choose to deny who you truly are or to live your life & behave as your soul tells you or if your prefer the term as the spirit guides you. Repressing your identity is in all cases detrimental to the person who does it. In far too many cases this leads to the choice actually being to live or to take your life. Also this leads to a general shutdown of feeling or the feeling that you are living a lie as you put on the facade of the identity that isn't yours.

Most people who are same sex attracted can always remember feeling that way to some degree. Children are maturing at an earlier stage in life than just a generation ago due to advanced nutrition & health care that has been in place all of their lives. When I was in eighth grade effectively in 1969. I most definitely remember being deeply attracted to a wonderful girl who was my classmate. Most of my classmates were fact dating. Parents & teachers called it puppy love which has been recognized for so long that I remember my grandmother telling me about my dad's first puppy love. As puberty comes on you are going to feel the attractions that come natural to you. They may be for opposite sex, same sex, or both. You may not even have the words if you haven't had the opportunity to learn them. You most certainly do feel the feelings. Sorry to take so much time answering that one question but the notion that some not knowing they were same sex attracted in eighth grade just seemed to beg for clarification the most.

OK buckyfan, I was trying to point out that if, as you say "Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.", why is it still allowed to pick ONE of these archaic laws in Leviticus to punish gay people?
Either it all still applies or none of it, by your own quote. Also, it apparently is still valid enough to make some people very angry. The teachings of Christ himself tends toward being tolerant and loving all other people. Or is that also a part of the Bible to conveniently snip out when it doesn't serve our purpose?

One more thing, here's the section where Jesus says not to judge. Note the last sentence, where it says that after you remove the plank from your eye, you then may focus on the speck in your brother's eye. One might interpret that to mean that you should worry about other's sin, or one might argue that you will never be able to get that plank out of your eye (because we're always sinning) so we'll never be able to deal with the speck.
---
Matthew 7: 1-3
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
---
And, while you’re considering that, ponder this…

James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
...
All of this, though, does not give anyone the right to verbally abuse, beat or kill any other child of God... or hate them, which homophobics (including many Christians) in their heart of hearts do. It goes against God's second greatest command: love your neighbor as yourself. And because God knows what we're thinking, you will have to sort that out with him.

I get mad that at my school, little old Parkview, we don't have a gay straight alliance, Im the only one here doing day of silence. As for dodgegirl18, it bad when anyone is rubbing against each other, Id rather have two guys holding hands, then a straight couple practicly having sex in the halls while I try to get to Calc on time.

Man and Women?? Honey, are you now showing your support of polygamy, or can you just not spell? Why are you so angry?

MAN AND WOMEN!!!
NOT MAN AND MAN
NOT WOMEN AND WOMEN

MAN AND WOMEN...THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE
AND THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE!!!
NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME DIFFERENT!!!

IT IS VERY DISTURBING TO SEE HOMOSEXUAL MAKING OUT AND RUBBING ALL UP ON EACH OTHER IN THE HALLS OF A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

OK, had to comment again because I need to correct the misinformation. Yes the Old Testament Bible had a lot of strange teachings, like the laws of menustration, animal sacrifice, eating pork, etc., etc. That is considered the "old law," created to show us the impossibility of living a sinless life. Christ's death abolished the old law:
---
Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
---
Also, if men are to dress as men and women as women, and you are holding that women therefore are not allowed to wear pants because they didn't in Biblical times, then, men, too, should not wear pants because they also did not wear them in Biblical times.
---
Of course, this if off topic, but I felt dodgegirl18 needed some help, and attorneyatlarge opened the door.

why do they need to bve FORGIVEN because the the book that you read and have taken in as the word of god says so well if you want to get all bibical it also says that none but god can judge because none on earth is without sin

attornyatlarge
since if your not a christian, how can you critize christians if your not one??? you have no right.
Like I said before one of my really good friend who I have known all my life is a lesbian. Although I love that girl to death and would do anyhting for her, she understands my beliefs and is ok with me not supporting her lifestyle.

I have a few questions about the Bible. If I am to follow the Word of God (who does not err), then I feel as though I need some clarification.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

i did hear on the radio about this and they didnt put it in a way that made sinse. they said something about "supporting" which made it sound like supporting gay people. not as in trying to defend them from getting beat up because they were gay. i am definattly not a writer i just know they way they put it on the radio wasnt sounding like what was stated here.

I do agree they should have a group that takes care of ALL people that are getting picked on- hadnicapped- mentally handicapped. obese, gay etc. i did mention before that hopefully people will realize that this group is trying to defend gay people and would realize not to pick on other people as well that are different. But people can be stupid and not think to stop picking on everyone that is different .

so lets have a day of silence not just for gay people but all eople that may be different.

and yes the bible mentions that being gay is a sin- and again i dont agree with their ways but i would never treat them cruely because of it.
But when we sin as christians we also ask for forgiveness. I am guessing gay people dont want to be forgivin

as a senior at craig high school this is the 4th time around that im expierencing the DOS and personally i find ti to not be that big of a deal that the community should be freaking out as it is.And as a student in Janesville i would like to know who is being called a "terrorist" for their religon because i have never heard of such a travesty. i am proud to see that Dr. kuhene suppotted this symbolic day that not only goes on at craig and parker but all accross the nation. if we are ever going to succeed as a nation we need to respect everybody regardless of who they choose to love.

Well, pudssweetie, I guess I should define "all people" and how I meant it to apply in my posting. When I say "all people", I'm referring to all men, women, teens, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, young, old and across every ethnic, cultural and religious group on our planet who are gay, straight, bisexual, transgendered and want to educate the world on homophobia that fuels harassment, discrimination, myths and fears of gay people, their friends and family. This issue crosses all borders and affects all groups of people. And it makes perfect sense to me that Gay/Straight Alliance is the name of the group.

Dodgegirl:
You said "There are parts of the Bible I don't agree with, but it is the word of God."

Then you don't agree with your God. If you don't bow to the word of your Lord just because you'd rather wear pants, cut your hair, and live a normal life whilst you menstruate, well, you're a heathen plain and simple. You are picking and choosing what part of God's word you want to listen to. According to Leviticus and Job, you won't get into heaven, because you are acting like a man. Indeed, Leviticus tells us that a "Man is the head of every woman, and Jesus the head of every Man." So go be a true Christian and find a Man to tell you what to beleive.... because the Bible sure as heck doesn't allow women to be prophets of the words of god.

The hard truth is, and you are too young and one- sided to realize it- is that you are happy with using the Bible as the ultimate authority to be mean to gays. The fact that you are only using it to be mean and not to honor your God doesn't bother you.

I'm not a Christian. I'm a ChristmaHanaKwanzaakaan. Praise be to Adam Sandler.

Attorneyatlarge,
you have no right to call me a hypocrite when you don't even know who I am. And especially calling me non- Christian. I believe in my religion and the bible. Yes There are parts of the bible that I don't agree with, but yet it is the word of God.
I don't care what you call me. Only I know who I am, and NO BODY is going to tell me different. The bible is not a fairytale. A true christian as you say you are, WOULD NEVER call the bible a fairytale.
I don't care anymore, I believe in what I believe and you can't tell me what to believe in. If no one is going to agree with me that's fine. I have every right to voice my opinion on this issue. I am a Christian, and you can't tell me other wise.
Homosexuality is a sin, but there's nothing else that I can do except voice my opinion. Yes I have friends who are gay, lesbian, and bi, that I would do anything for them except support their lifestyle.

Has anyone looked at the Gay Straight Alliance Network website? I have and no wheres does it say they are promoting tolerance of all who are different, just homosexuals. If tolerance is going to be taught it needs to be for all who are different not just a specific group. Here is what it said and the website is on the bottom

Mission Statement

Gay-Straight Alliance Network is a youth leadership organization that connects school-based Gay-Straight Alliances (GSAs) to each other and community resources. Through peer support, leadership development, and training, GSA Network supports young people in starting, strengthening, and sustaining GSAs and builds the capacity of GSAs to:

1. create safe environments in schools for students to support each other and learn about homophobia and other oppressions,

2. educate the school community about homophobia, gender identity, and sexual orientation issues, and

3. fight discrimination, harassment, and violence in schools.
http://www.gsanetwork.org/about/index.ht...

So you tell me where they are teaching tolerance of all who are different.

Bill Sodemann and other adults are setting a lousy example for their children and our community. This issue isn't just about high school teens; this issues is about tolerance of all people. And the School Board needs to recognize that there are parents, teachers, business owners in the community, doctors, lawyers, city employees that are gay and graduated from local schools. Tolerance and respect learned early generally means tolerance as an adult. Obviously, the Day of Silence wasn't something that happened at Sodemann's high school, and other adults like him are unfortunate examples of ignorance, intolerance, hate and hypocrisy. Mr. Sodemann, I am a gay parent and business owner in this community. My child is not gay, but suffers unnecessarily because of people like you.

Dodgegirl: So your answer to bullying is that since everyone of every race, creed, color and sexual orientation gets bullied and picked on, we should make no attempts in our society to draw attention to it and stop it? I think the Day of Silence has accomplished a lot already, before it even took place. It has opened up a dialogue about this whole issue.

I SOOOOOO disagree with all the people claiming that this event has to do with "recruiting" people into homosexuality. Perhaps (as stated by a few bloggers early on) the name of this school club is not totally fitting for what the students' mission is. Perhaps they should have given themselves a name dealing with tollerance for all people's differences. For some readers, to say Gay/Straight Alliance has caused some misunderstanding as to their groups mission and goals. For anyone to claim that these students are doing this for the promotion of alternative lifestyles is plain silly.

I just really have a problem with your statement which leads me to believe that you are condoning bullying because it happens to "everyone". We need to draw more attention to this problem in our schools and society in general because it is a continually increasing problem in many communities.

Well said attorney, I consider myself a Christian- but you can not interpret the Bible word for word anymore, and I doubt any Pastor or Priest would counsel you to do that either! Society has evolved, the best takeaways are still there though- teachings about morals, values, character, and tolerance! I doubt Jesus would have been caught saying "Beat up the homosexuals!" I think that would have fell into the love thy neighbor category!

Dodgegirl

It's very nice that you believe the Bible. However, there are many, many people that believe that it just a big fairy tale. If you have ever truly read the whole thing, it has many scary passages in it- where God and his prophets kill and maim children! In the book that says homosexuality is wrong (Leviticus) it also says we are not supposed to eat pork, and that a menstruating woman is unclean and should not be near a man or clean woman for 7 days. Also, as a woman you should over your head and not wear pants. So Dodgegirl- are you going to follow ALL the rules of the Bible, or just the ones you like? If you don't follow all the rules, i think you are a hypocrite.

Do you stay in your house during your period? Do you not sacrifice lambs and bulls to your God? Then you are NOT a Christian!

Billnewbie- No, sex is NOT for reproduction on our society. If that is sex's role, why does the average american have 2 children? If your theory was correct, the average family would be 5-6 children as it was in the 1900's- actually MUCH higher now that we have medicine, vaccinations, C-sections and nutrition.
Do you view childless heterosexuals as deviant and wrong? If sex is for reproduction, then women are simply walking uteruses. Do you view sterile women as biologically unsound? I view them a full human beings with something to contribute to society, but that's just me being un-Christian, I guess.
And if your theory was sound, there would be less homosexuality these days, when it is much more out in the open and even celebrated.
Sex, in American society is primarily for bonding, recreation, and sadly, commercialistic marketing.

I agree. We are growing in many ways.
It's not like Gays haven't been around since...
As Americans, we have to acknowledge that we all have a place here in this beautiful country.
We won't change your families. We just want to be happy.
I think it's called the pursuit of happiness?
Can You Dig It.
A Gay Black Male Trucker
All day.

Number one: I will never give up any time to read the bible. Two: It's rediculous that parents and students are upset by it. It's also upsetting that students come right out and say "I hate gays" or im homophobic. They're put up to show facts, list statistics and maybe OPEN PEOPLE EYES. Yes, we all get bullied, but some far more than others. If your kid was getting bullied you'd probably do more than put up posters to stop it.

Zum09, religion has an impact on this situation so don't say it doesn't!!!
And if you have read the bible, which I recommend you to do, it states man and woman, not woman and woman, not man or man.
Therefore as being a Christian, I believe homosexuality is a sin. I know everyone sins.

To everyone, what is a day of silence going to do to stop bullying or harrassing against homosexuals and just in general. Everyone is bullied whether your white, black, green, red, orange, blue, gay lesbian, bi, or trangender. It's doesn't matter who you are it's going to happen anyways. Posters and a day of silence is not going to do anything to help the situation. So why upset other students and parents who don't agree with homosexuality by doing activities that are not clearly going to work??? I don't understand.

KathrynSullivan:
You would be MOST welcome in Canada :) I married a former Janesville resident here. Life is pretty good - we really don't get a lot of flack at all. It's rare to get a disapproving glance, much less bad words. My 16 yr old son, her stepson, is really very good with the whole situation and would be our biggest defender, assuming anybody gave us a hard time in the first place. We pay our taxes, we own a home, we work, we have a kid with all the attendant problems of a teen. The fact that it's a same sex marriage is really immaterial - our problems here are the same as any other working parents of a stubborn teenager.

I had never heard of a Gay - Straight Alliance until my spouse pointed me to this page, and I am really surprised to see just how many people find it a problem. Then again, I am from a different country and a different culture, so I guess I won't understand.

I will sign out now and go back to reading and lurking these boards. Here's hoping you find a measure of acceptance in your own community - I don't know how much stress NOT having that would be.

No, I am not a student, I am General Manager of a local business that employs about 50 employees, and do understand a lot about advertising and image though, if you would like any suggestions on how to get your message out I would be happy to help. People I think are generally not very apt to put their trust in schools anymore in situations where their childs values can be influenced, generally the public would like to see a neutral stance from public institutions when morals come into play-if thats good or bad I will let you decide. I for one do not trust the school district to make choices when it comes to issues regarding morals, values, and character- look at the article above. This issue I actually support, but imagine the precedent it could set for future posters. That being said I do respect and admire the understanding that is trying to be created by this day, kudos for the effort, I just think there may be better avenues.

the fact of the matter is.
its a school.
you know a place where young people gather?
they are simply promoting awareness.
is it really so wrong as to inform someone and stop them from making a bad decision?

Maybe you could just make T Shirts like the previous post said! Sounds like a great idea!

ryanthehut- i guess that would be a good idea about the no posters. the only thing is, kids rarely read flyers or papers, but posters get attention and you post them in frequently traveled areas and they get attention. im just wondering are you a high school student as well?

You know, as strange as it seems- ripzilla actually has a pretty good idea. I think it would be wise just to eliminate posting of anything at the high schools, it must take time for people to clean up after it gets taken down. This is probably why the custodian is really mad- he has to clean the mess up during the "Day of Cleaning." I think it would also contribute to a more professional atmosphere- more learning appropriate. Just stop posters alltogether for anybody. I don't really care what it is for. I do not see anything stuck all over the Courthouse walls, or the Municipal Building walls. Oh, yeah before the homosexual folks start trying to hate on me- I could really care less if you are gay or not, I don't understand why anyone would want to kill you or beat you up, I think that is awful- I wouldn't, I just think this is not an appropriate forum.

people who think homosexuality is a sin...wow. check your daily life. im sure you sin a rediculous amount more than you realize. and you know why we dont have prayer day? SEPERATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. I refuse to go to a school where there is praying time. If you want to pray at school, thats one thing. But for them to set aside a time, wouldn't be correct. Being homosexual, has nothing to do with religion once again. You don't like it so you say its a sin. People used to be raised that having slaves was great and to be in a relationship with one or treat one like a human being was a sin. we got over that ignorance, we'll get over this one. eventually.

i dont even get the whole religion thing.
we're supposed to have the freedom of religion, but yet we get in trouble if we express it at school.
They will say we are "pushing" our religion on people.
WELL GUESS WHAT?! WE'RE NOT!

there's a girl in my gym class that wears shirts that "promote" Christianity, but no one cares, because they're mature enough to know that different people have different religions. Maybe some of the adults in this community should grow up and start acting like that too.
...and we're high school students.
think about that.

So this whole thing is about GSA putting up signs? Okay.. so could t-shirts that students wear to school be considered signs? Because every other club (Key Club, FFA, ect.) has shirts that support their club. What's the difference if we just put pieces of papers up on the walls? They aren't hurting anyone.

wow. i cant explain how confused i am with some of the comments. let me just state this...seperation of church and state...WAYYYY different from being gay. Ok, idk how many times a day i get christian crap shoved down my throat in school and i tolerate it because i know that i live in a mainly christian community. however, being homosexual IS NOT A RELIGION. your not competing with other sexualities or favoring one over another. its widely known who the heterosexuals are in our communities and world, you want posters on them fine. but stop bringing religion into this. i cant believe how religion has to get dragged into everything. most people who follow those strong religious beliefs are totally the opposite of what they preach. as ghandi said: "...i do not like your christians, they are so unlike your christ."

Why is it that a group such as the GSA have a right to have a day of silence, but yet we can't have a day of prayer???
Can someone seriously answer that for me??? This is rediculous.
As a Christian, I believe in what the bible says. I strongly believe that homosexuality is a sin.

ur sick.
calling us vandals.
your not helping the problem any.
there are innocent kids out there getting killed for who they are.
is that so wrong?

What I find amusing is that if this was any other club putting up posters(i.e.Diversity putting up famous minorities) no one would even bat an eye. If there were a Religious club at Parker...(not sure if there is an active one at Craig), then they have every right to put up posters...even famous religious people. Just symbols are a problem. I welcome any staff member or parent to organize and run such a club. I would but I already advise a club.

I also do not understand how a SILENT protest that is allowed by our (christian based) CONSTITUTION...1st Amendment for those that do not know, is harmful to others educational experience? There are students in both schools that choose not to talk in class, for a variety of reasons. Why is it such an ordeal if ANY student or student group decides to take a vow of silence?

I do understand and respect that this is a difficult issue with many people inside and outside the schools. However...this should not be about religion. This should be about making sure that ALL students no matter gender, race, religion or lifestyle feel SAFE at school. Those who think that GSA is promoting the lifestyle obviously has not attended any meetings. I encourage one to do so to get the real story behind GSA, instead of getting false and misleading information from people who are not involved (either for or against) the organization.

Vandals! Keep your tape gunk off of the walls!

ummm...."special"
you spelled christian wrong.
wow.

RUSerious, your post around 1030 last night it exactly what i was trying to say, i guess it came out wrong and now i am accused of "hate"

sandbruin, i find it funny that you do not know me and assume that i "mask my hate for gay people" um no, i have several friends who are homosexual and love them to death.. maybe you should go back to high school and see how raunchy kids are these days.. its practically watching live sex.. i didn't go to school to watch that.. so before you start commenting on how you think my visions are, i think you should simmer down and stop getting so worked up over one comment

I’m a student at Craig High School its amazing that we cant even say the pledge of allegiance because of God but we can permit a gay group to promote their beliefs. It is very sad when a school district will allow a group, that in the BIBLE states is wrong, yet we allow us as students to deal with this, but not God, does any CHRISTEN see something wrong with this besides me.
I would not see anything wrong this at all if us Christians could all get together and have a pray day at school, or better yet everybody does not talk at all while I pray aloud to all of you to hear. I think that if anybody is being shunned away its not the gays, but the Christens and their beliefs. We wonder why our school system is so screwed up. Maybe its because we are forcing God out of our schools, and lives and praising the gays more then our own Heavenly Father.
As a student and a Christen I thought I would voice my option as well.

Sweet, I'll but the wood and gasoline!

To the people who don't understand why an acitivity like this is needed HELLO - can you say MATTHEW SHEPARD?!!!!!!!

Zum - speaking of KKK. Several years ago I was at the mall in JV. At the time, I had several bumper stickers on my car. One said "CELEBRATE DIVERSITY" with rainbow colors on it. The others have left my mind at this point. I came out of the mall and there was a folded piece of paper under my rear window's wiper blade. Upon opening it I read information that was a KKK newsletter of some type. I checked other cars in the parking lot for several rows - mine was the only one that had this paper put on it. SCARED THE CRUD OUT OF ME! I checked my rear view mirrors all the way home. Honestly, this was probably close to 10 years ago. I can see we've come so far insofar as gay & lesbian rights are concerned - NOT! This is always such a hot topic and ALWAYS brings out the bible thumpers. I live in this community with my partner of 10 years. We own a home, pay our taxes, and live a decent caring life. Why the hell should anyone else care?!!!!!! I cannot believe people are complaining about this issue. It's up to the individual students to decide if they want to partake in this day or not. No one's forcing it down their throats for god's (as you all seem to be quoting) sake.

There's so much more to be said but I'm too upset right now to say it all. Sadly, in the community that I call home, it falls on mostly deaf ears anyway.

I think it's time to move to Canada.

why are all the adults so concerned that students are going to turn homosexual if we put up a bunch of posters at our schools? its our choice, not theirs. The posters are there simply to get students aware of what REALLY HAPPENS. not this fake fairytale everyone expects us to live in.

Wouldn't it be better to teach tolerance by not putting down and name calling those who don't agree with this issue?
Or is it that folks on both sides of this debate are really pretty much the same...

Yes, I know. I appreciate the support. As, I'm sure my fellow students do. I'm just saddened by the number of adults in our community who have blown something way out proportion and made "gayness" an equivilent of a disease and act like their children's lives are at stake if the posters are up. Im truly appaled.

zum09.....There are many "parents and faculty" who support you 100%. Remember, it's stereotyping that you are opposing.

Oh, I found a way to solve this. While we're all being so understanding and modern about this situation, I say we go throw all the gay people in janesville on stakes and burn them. Really, you who have shunned them and continue to discriminate them are already taking steps to doing this. THIS IS 2008. I thought, the city of Janesville could be more tolerant. After all though, we did have the KKK, I should have seen this coming.

In public speaking class a couple weeks ago, we watched a video that reminded me of this only it was Evolution vs Intelligent Design. Same issues with ignorant school board members and angry community members. OH AND A LITTLE HEADS UP. THE POSTERS WERE PUT BACK UP. AND THERE'S LIKE 10X more than there were before. What next? Are you going to fire all the teachers for allowing this? Be RATIONAL.

Why is the world so full of cry-baby Christians?

Why don't they go find an island and leave the rest of the world alone.

No one cares about their martyrdom.

Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts
www.CoreyMondello.com
4-24-08

imagine: From National Geographic news
Gene for Left-Handed Trait Discovered
August 1, 2007
The gene most closely linked to left-handedness has been found, experts announced this week.
The gene, called LRRTM1, is also associated with a slight increase in developing certain mental illnesses such as schizophrenia.

As a seeker of truth, I thought I'd pass this along to you, for whatever it's worth. As a lefty ...YIKES, although now I know why all those voices are in my head!

As a Christian, I also know why people are upset about allowing some groups to hang posters and other information in the schools, while many times Christian information is denied. It's my understanding that in Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court explained separation of church and state, but I believe the justices ruled it was OK to use taxpayer dollars to bus children to a parochial school (which was what the case was about). If I'm correct, then the confusing result explains why schools are hesitant to allow any religious materials to be used. Schools can't afford a lawsuit.

As for the Day of Silence, although the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin (as well as sex outside of marriage, lying, stealing, course talk, etc.), Christians must remember the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, and next, love your neighbor as yourself. If people attacked me for my sin the way believers attack homosexuals, I never would have been saved. I have many homosexual friends. I love them and treat them like I would any other of God's children. It's exactly what Christ did when he reached out to the lost. It is my job as a parent to raise my children and use situations such as this to teach them--not lash out at the school. Better for me to teach them what I believe and why during instances such as this than to try and do it when they're off on their own in this complicated world.

billnewbie:
It isn't my "reasoning." It is the way I feel. I don't believe it's genetic. I don't know what exactly it is. I'm not a genius, I can't explain it. Don't you think that if I could, I'd be famous or something?

MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS!!!!
Again, for those of you that have missed my past blogs, I am a junior at Parker. What I failed to mention before is this. I'm involved in more clubs than I could probably handle and I'm also a class officer. I must say, for the people that say the other clubs don't have equal time you are soooooo wrong. I PUT POSTERS UP ALL OVER THE SCHOOL. IM NOT IN GSA. To put a poster on the school wall, it must be observed by administration and stamped. All clubs can put posters on the wall, whether they choose to or not is up to them. And by the way, I would also like to state this has nothing to do with religion. Seriously, I don't believe in God, and probably for good reason. Look at all the parents and faculty that comment on here that say on one hand their CHRISTIANS and then go on being homophobic and gay bashing. Go on with your paradox hypocritical ways.

The sad reality is that Sodemanns right wing bigoted positions do get some traction in Janesville.

One of the reasons my son is participating in The Day of Silence...www.rememberlarry.com

imagine:
The problem with that argument is this, whether left or right, the hand you favor is still used as a hand as it was meant to be. The sex drive was meant for reproduction. By definition, homosexuals do not reproduce. They do not use their sex drive as it was meant to be. From an evolutionist point of view, if homosexuals are born then homosexuals are at a huge disadvantage genetically since they choose not to reproduce and would very quickly be extinct due to natural selection. And, if evolution is not true then if any group, say the left handed, choose not to procreate, there would very quickly be no left handed people, since these traits are supposedly inherited. That said, there is no justification for violence toward homosexuals, or anyone else who is "different" for that matter.

One of the best explanations of sexuality I’ve read is to consider how some people are left handed. The world of science has yet to identify a biological element for left-handedness, yet it is accepted that people are born left handed. Hence, the world of science has yet to identify a biological element for homosexuality, but it is accepted that people are born gay. The proof is in the outcome.

Continuing the analogy, some people are ambidextrous—just as some people are bi-sexual.

And furthermore, at one time in history some lefties were forced to be righties because the righties couldn’t understand a minority of people who wanted to use their left hand. Many gays, likewise, have been forced to deny their sexuality because many heterosexuals can’t understand homosexuality.

Left is Right, Right is Right. Finish the analogy yourself…

suffertheseason:
I find your reasoning to be faulty. If you have this so called "gay" gene, then how is it that you also can "go the other way"? If homosexuality is genetic, then you should have no attraction to the opposite sex. If, however, you can choose sex partners from either sex, does that not imply that your homosexual feelings are a choice and not some primal urge that you cannot resist? I asked about whether you were in school to see if you were where you were suppose to be. I am glad to see that you were. It is a credit to you. I thought that it was possible that you were truant.

I'm a little confused by your statement tom1cass2. You say that you think that homosexuality is a immoral and you quote bible verses that condemn it, yet you say in your last sentence that you think people are born that way. Well, doesn't that mean that God created them that way then?

Let's quit bashing Sodemann and the Winters and thank them for bringing more attention and promotion than ever to the issue of civil rights for gays.

Just as my history teacher taught me, Birmingham was picked for the great Children's March because the civil rights' activist knew the racists would make a scene for the whole country to see. The Janesville GSA members knew they could count on self-righteous Janesvillians to bring more attention to the Day of Silence than they ever could.

Thanks again Sodemann and Winters for making noise about the Day of Silence and bringing state-wide media attention to the oppression of gay and straight Americans.

billnewbie: I am not bisexual because I "choose" to be. What exactly did you not understand when I said homosexuality wasn't a choice? I am attracted to certain men. I am attracted to certain women. Thus the term BIsexual. No matter if I was dating a man or a woman, I wouldn't consider myself gay or straight. But honestly, what does that have to do with anything I really said in my previous post?
And what difference does it make whether I'm posting from school or not? I am, but it is my free time that I choose to use to do so.

Let me know about the recall thing, I'd love to be on the committee.

Rockstar
You can have a recall election for a Janesville School Board member and I think 25% of all voters who voted in the most recent gubnatorial election would be needed to force a recall. If I am reading the Wisconsin State Elections Board material correctly, The statute is in section 9.1.0, Wis. Stats. identifying the provisions of the recall process. If I understand correctly, an elected official can not be recalled until he/she has served one year of the term for which he or she was most recently elected. If this is the route, mark down April 2009, when a recall can be started. Otherwise more information can be obtained by calling 608-266-8005 - State Elections Board

Sodeman you can backtrack all you want in further issues of the Gazette and anywhere else you can find a convenient spot to get up on your soap box but you aren't fooling anyone about your "agenda". You may not be impeachable but your polarizing an entire community has put the spotlight on you. We will be watching until your term is up.

Can you be impeached if you're on the school board? Let's give it a try with Sodemann.

slainte: I will rephrase my post because it is not a blanket statement. Of the two private schools I have dealt with, the students were more closed minded and judgemental than the students attending public school. Especially when the subject was homosexuality.

food for thought..if one is "born gay" then how it is that some "turn straight?" Just wondering.... Once again, I never said I hated gay people or think they should be bullied etc..

mommyopes: So you believe that private school students are closed minded and judgmental... Hmmm.... Isn't issuing a blanket statement on private school such as this rather closed minded and judgmental as well?
As I stated in my previous post, EVERYONE has a bias. You've just proven my point. Thank you.

Mr Sodeman, I find it very appealing that you chose to make this your issue. It appears that this DOS affects you profoundly. What is interesting is that you bring up the issue under the guise of equality to all groups, then by example you site your religious reference to martyred Christians. You may be the one responsiblie for polarizing the citizens of this community by your attempt to ensure equal rights for all clubs and organizations. Are you kidding? Is anyone listening to this guy? He was concerned other groups couldn't put up posters too? Resign man, you are out of the loop. Opening discussion is good, being a coward by setting it up the way you did is just wrong. Quit backtracking and admit your bigotry.

slainte: You honestly think a private school will be so much different than public school? From the private schools I know of, the students are more close-minded and judgemental than the kids that go to public school.

All I can say is that EVERYONE has some sort of prejudice or bias, regardless of who you are or how 'openminded' you may belive yourself to be. The postings listed here demonstrate that so very well, I think!
Yes, everyone needs to be treated with respect at school but this so very rarely happens regardless of one's orientation, sex, race, economic stature, etc. Kids are very cruel. They will always find something to pick on someone about. Where do they learn this? AT HOME! The home is the primary teaching arena and where we learn our values. My POINT? Instead of blaming the school for children being so hateful, we need to examine their home lives and what they are learning there.
Also, please do NOT lump all Christians together as close-minded, bigoted big mouths. Many Christians are quite liberal and well educated while some are not. To lump all Christians in one group just shows extreme ignorance of the part of a speaker.
I will say this newest controversy completely cements my decision to send my daughter to a private school when she is of school age.

upnorthwi
The fear is that gay might rub off on your children. That is an irrational fear. If you read the bible it also tells you not to judge. If this is a matter of religion for some people then by all means have your thoughts and opinions but respect the thoughts of others. If you feel they are wrong or sinners then your belief would be they will be judged, that is their concern however the point is that the club is promoting tolerance and the end of bullying they are not promoting homosexuality, this should be a non-issue, Craig and Parker Principals, thank you for putting aside personal ideas and doing what is fair and right. You are great mentors for our kids.

I know who I will be campaigning AGAINST when its time for the next school board election. The majority of Christianity has gotten so distanced from Christ Like Behavior that I have no regret that I rejected it years ago. I also remember a time when racism was so out of control that a certain high school in Janesville nearly lost the right to participate in the conference. I just wonder how many of these same narrow minded individuals saw no problem in this school district until that happened.

I do not have anything against anyone who is gay\lesbian or bisexual but I do
beleive that it is immoral. It is in the
bible.
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." (Leviticus 20:13)
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
I also believe a person is born homosexual it is not a choice.

suffertheseason:
I'm confused about your post. As a bi-sexual, are you a gay who chooses to sometimes be strait, or are you a strait who sometimes chooses to be gay? I noticed that your school is scheduled for classes today. Are you at school?

upnorthwi-i think you need to check your sources, accourding to you 1 corinthians states homosexuality is wrong? i went to a private school until 7th grade never hearing about this, so i went right to my bible and checked and saw nothing specificaly stating homosexuality is wrong. i have many people close to me that i care about that are gay/lesbian/bi and as a straight person cannot believe how riduculus others can be on saying they're lifestyle is wrong. what you think they wake up one morning and decide for the rest of there lives they want to be harrased and tormented? no! it's how they are happy and what is wrong with having a happy world, even if some choose to be happy with the same sex. good for them, they are the strong ones, maybe you need a lesson from all of those that know how to live!

Well, ripzilla. My grandma is gay, and I'm alive? So how can you actually say if our parents were gay, we wouldn't be around?

As an openly bisexual student at Craig, I find it ridiculous that people honestly think that it's a CHOICE to be gay. Why would we want to be insulted and unaccepted by the general population? The Day of Silence is promoting tolerance... Something many people posting on this site obviously need to learn a thing or two about.

Some here are trying to get others to accept the concept that homosexuality is a sin and that homosexuals are sinners. I think that is the wrong approach. I should recognize and admit my own sins. If I see my neighbor cheat on his wife, or kick his dog, or have homosexual relations, I should advise him that I think it's wrong, but I must still treat him with respect. He may be doing something that I wouldn't do, but it's not my job to enforce the laws of God. Homosexual promiscuity (defined as sex outside of marriage, aka adultery) is no more sinful than heterosexual promiscuity, and who among us can honestly cast the first stone? If you mistakenly believe that you can cast that stone, try to remember that even lust is equated with adultery.

Mr. Bill (oooooohhh noooooo) ~sorry couldnt resist....lol....but hey, shows iam still a kid at heart and definitely shows my years on this earth.

~~
But seriously Mr. Sodemann and with all due respect I find your rationale and deeds foul, if you have found legal counsel to support your folly then that person is indeed a fool or imho just wishes to make buck at the taxpayers expense following your lead telling you what you wish to hear....

....it is my hope that, like your screename 'rocksolid', you are as temporal as rocks are in the real world....that is, with time (sooner than you may wish) the wind (of Truth) and water (of Love) will render you to the eventual dust that we all face as Human Beings in this temporal Real World!

....indeed my suggesting is for you to step off this hatemonger box....but you choose and do what you wish....

~~~~~~~~
~peace be

The posters are about an issue of content. The GSA posters are advocating to tolerate and show respect for all the people who have experience discrimination, been abused or even killed due to their sexuality. These are not saying, "Come be Gay. You will get a membership packet and card once your $100 check clears."

The Christian groups could put up similar posters saying, "Be silent for Christ" or "Come join the Christian Fellowship Club." In fact when I was at Craig, there was a Christian Fellowship Club.

As a 1999 Alumnus of Craig, I am just deeply ashamed by my community for all of the close-minded negativity that was shown in this article and one these boards. I am gay..but also a stand up person. I pay my taxes. I am a huge UW sports fan. I love the outdoors. I am an Eagle Scout. And yeah...I'm also gay. And for all you who say that I'm not a good perosn or role model, that's sad for you.

Finally, everyone in Wisconsin is worried about the brain drain. Tell me why would I want to live in a place that is as close-minded and hateful as Janesville seems to be. I love Wisconsin and Janesville...but am glad and sad that I left that behind four years ago.

I don't know where some of you are getting your information, but this is my effort to clear up a couple things. The Day of Silence has been going on since 1996 and has been growing year after year. The DOS does not interupt any other academics and is the right of the students. This year it will be held in memory of Lawrence King, a 15-year-old eighth-grade student in Oxnard, California, was shot and killed by a 14-year-old classmate because of his sexual orientation and gender expression. Think about how you would feel if that was your child. What is the world coming to that a 14 year old boy thinks it is ok to MURDER a child because of his gender identity and expression.

The DOS is also an excellent outlet for students who normally fear speaking out. Four out of five students reported verbal, sexual, or physical harassment at school and a third reported missing at least one day of school in the past month out of fear for their personal safety. DOS gives hundreds of thousands of students in over 4,000 schools across the country an opportunity to stand together and "speak out" against the endemic name-calling, bullying, and harassment faced by LGBT students and their allies. (from the official Day of Silence website, www.dayofsilence.org) With statistics such as those mentioned above I cannot understand why people think the DOS is a useless day.

Another thing I want to bring up is the fact that NOT EVERYONE is a Christian. Even those of you who claim to be Christian are clearly not very educated in it. The very orignial untranslated Bible says nothing about homosexuality or one man and one woman. It does however mention PARTNERS and life commitments to those partners.

I am sure that I will get a lot of criticism for the stuff I just mentioned, but it is something I am okay with. Maybe I can get the point across to at least one person.

I was not at the meeting, so I cannot comment on what was said there. I can only comment on the content of the article and the comments I have read thus far.

Wether or not Mr. Sodermann is for or against G/L is irrelevant. What is relevant, is that if the GSA is allowed to put up posters, then all groups should be allowed to put up posters. Since not all groups are allowed to put up posters (the example given being religious groups), then why should this particular group get to?

Simon is right. This event has been going on for a few years and was never a problem until the school board got involved. Now they backtrack and claim it was for equal rights of all clubs but the inital complaints were with the content.

The issue for Mr. Sodemann was raised initially due to the content of the GSA posters. Do not think for one moment that it originated to give other groups equal access. Did you listen to what his wife and other puppets said to the school board? He finds this offensive and you know it.

Donegeal,
I wish this issue was fair for all groups. Look at the presentation at the school board meeting. It wasn't about fair for all, it was about same sex kissing and the negative effect of gays. Look at the comments made by other school board members as well as Mr. Sodemann. This is not an issue of fairness to all groups, this is a homosexual related issue. I can't buy this argument that it is a fairness for all considering the comments regarding gay lifestyle.
Of course some want this issue to be only about fair to all groups; but show me one fair action toward constitutional rights of homosexuals, as Americans. Homosexuals are the only group during this generation where a constitutional amendment is being proposed to restrict rights. Those darn homosexuals are getting superior rights compared to christians, I don't think so. Please, can we spin this any more politically. Thanks for your opinion, but once again, if this was a poster advocating to prevent violence against women or African Americans, nothing would have been said. This isn't about being fair to all groups, it's about restricting a certain group from advocating against violence since those being attacked are homosexuals.

rockstars,

Did you know that there is one bone in the human body that will grow back if it's taken out? The lower rib. How does that prove evolution? It doesn't. In fact, it supports the Bible.

Please, people, the issue is not Gay/lesbians. It's not tolerance. It's not even anti-bullying. The issue is a club puting up posters. What Mr. Sodemann, and the school board, appears to be doing is keeping things fair for every club. Thank you Mr. Sodermann.

Rockstars: So because of my initials, my logic and theory are not valid? You need to do better than that! The truth is that the legal opinion that was given, confirms my argument that they must treat all groups the same.
Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

I just got back from having some gay sex,smoking a joint, and saying the pledge in spanish. have a nice day doing whatever you want with your freedom.

hmmm, eye for an eye, another misquoted scripture......

thank you ripzilla. I'm done with this now. And yes I know it says drunkards, thieves, liars etc.. it all goes back to living a life pleasing to God....Amen

Latasha,

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for my misunderstanding. I totally support your efforts!

Has it occurred to anyone that the Bible is written in a form to conform to individual definitions. Meaning, yes there is a basic foundation of the message, but every passage can be interpretated to fit a person's need at the particular time of reading it. Everyone's definitions of "words" are different, therefore, everyone has their own interpretation of what the Bible is saying. Have your own faith, and stop trying to make universal truths out of something that will never be a universal truth.

I don't believe it's a sin because I believe the science that states people are born that way. I mentioned God forgiving our sins because some believe it's a sin, but won't forgive. All I ask is for people to stop hating others because they're different in some way.

It scares me that people are so against a day aimed to remind people that it's WRONG to be hateful to other people.

I know that Bill Sodemann will NOT be getting my vote next time! The funny thing is his initials are B.S. And that's all that seems to come from his logic and theory.

I wish the GSA was there when I was in high school at Craig (I only graduated in 99). It would have made my life a whole lot easier to be around people that were like me and that understood me and my feelings.

And one last thing, don't you people from the religious right know that the Bible has been rewritten SO MANY TIMES that it takes away so much from it? Of course there are many truths in the Bible and many of its people (characters?) are indeed real, but an awful lot of it is story (fiction, I dare say?). How can a logical and average person believe that Eve was formed from the RIB of Adam and NOT believe in EVOLUTION.

I'm not an Athiest (I believe A LOT of the story/Bible) but I just don't know what is real versus what isn't. While your devout religious beliefs have given you so much in life, apparently they took away your logic and reasoning skills!

oh btw, i have read the books of the book called the Bible....many more than once....and many chapters more than that....

....somehow i sometimes think that is the problem,,,,too many have not and only rely upon what another may say or a verse here and verse there that many are quick to quote to justify (in their own mind) that which they hate....sadly most often it is seems that what they profess most to hate is that which they hate within themselves....

~~food for thought~~

~~~~~~~~
~peace be

jviers77- So you admit, homosexuality is a sin.

Dr. Stephen E. Goldstone, the medical director of Gay Health.com says that 68% of HIV-positive and 45% of HIV-negative homosexual men have abnormal or precancerous anal cells.

Look, according to the Bible, we're not supposed to eat pork and drink milk either. What I'm saying is that God is supposed to "forgive us our sins" regardless the severity. People like to quote the Bible to re-enforce their beliefs, but when they don't agree with something in the Bible, such as eating pork, drinking milk, and eye for an eye, they conveniently neglect to quote scripture. We can all make this world a better place by accepting eachother the way we are. We all have 'faults' that others may not agree with. But, is it really right to hate someone just because of those faults. Why not focus on the good in people?

Whilst it is true that I have not read all of the comments posted about this issue....one small observation is, that I believe is being missed is, that those most responsible for the venom being spewed are indeed publically silent themselves....they are using good hearted and well intentioned people to do their dirty work for them....this is the truest of travesties and shams....hidden by the pews....

....the GSA imho promotes understanding, acceptance for Human Beings and not just tolerance of people others might otherwise even unwittingly dehumanize with their words, actions or inactions....

....I personally believe that every HUMAN CHILD NEEDS and deserves an EDUCATION without the fear and intimidation of and real violence that I suffered as a teenager and going to school....iam not gay by the way, iam bi by experience and born inter/trans, assigned male at birth by doctors whom could not see within mme as my G~D did then and does now....to be ever more honest, high school for mme was twenty five plus years ago and was indeed pure hell for mme in many many ways; living in constant fear, bloodied, loathing myself and wishing for it all to end....it is only by grace that i have and will survive....

....is this, as it seems what some wish not? for these children whom are younger than I or U, to actually face on a daily basis the bullying by others, the self hate to hurt themselves?....cannot we teach civility, the splendor of Life amist the endeavor to a formal education?....that We are All Children longing for understanding, acceptance and Love of ourselves; giving the same Love toward our Fellow Human Beings....or does one person or the next dictate that which we should hate? whom amongst any of you knows all there is to know? ....because misguided understand of words written centuries ago, should justify or deny their own self hate? IMHO....Love is One Key....education another, to bring things to Light and help all see that bigoted hate will not be tolerated....

....in Life and Society, finger pointing and name calling get US All Nowhere....as i said, the shame is the sham that many whom do publically remain silent foster and allow hate to propogate.

~my two bits~~and a couple more~~~

~~~~~~~~
~peace be

Bill Sodemann, the church has no business at school and it appears neither do you. i'm sure the kids would clean up after themselves if they could get rid of you. you should find job cleaning a church.

jviers77- But he did die for all of our sins, so we could be forgiven, it does not mean we should take advantage of it though!

*The Law of Moses said, "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22; c.f 20:13)
*The Old Testament (OT) also condemns "sodomites," which were male temple prostitutes (I Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; II Kings 23:7).
*"Because of this [the suppression of truth resulting in idolatry] God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27, NIV).
*"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God (I Corinthians 6:9-10, NET).
*While it is true that Sodom was not judged only for its immorality (Ezekiel 16:49-50), from the Biblical narrative it is clearly the main reason. Jude 7, for one, makes it clear that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their sexual perversion.

upnorthwi...
*
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
*
Not anywhere in your quoted verse does it say anything about homosexuality. Maybe you have a different version of the Bible that is more archaicly translated. My point is that you can interpret any written statement how you wish. Anybody can find anything to support their views by cutting and pasting segments out of context to fit with their views.
*
*
Once again, what this boils down to is a human issue. This isn't about liberal or conservative rhetoric. It's not about what type of religion you subscribe to. We're all people, born with different traits and characteristics, and we should all be treated with respect.

Ghostwriter: Your question of, "Would other groups/clubs be able to have activities that coincide with class time and potentially conflict with the normal academic proceedings?" gets into a very gray area.

Technically those participating in the DOS are required to speak if called upon or face the consequences. In reality however, students are rarely called upon and it is unlikely that a teacher would intitiate a confrontation. If a student has a speech to give that day, they are still required to do so.

Any club would not be allowed to do anything that disrupts the learning process. Remaining silent does not, by itself, necessarily disrupt the learning process. You can see however that there could be instances where it would.

I must say that this has been a learning experience for many people, including me and the principals etc.

I hope that I have answered your question.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

What would happen if these kids went to the Police Dept or the Rock County Courthouse and tried hanging their posters every 7 feet?? They would have been arrested I bet. Criminal Damage to Property, Vandalism, something to that effect. Why is it any different in the other taxpayer funded facility in the High Schools?? It is demeaning to the educational credibility of the facility. If it was a private school then plaster the entire school, parents can pull their kids out, but not everyone has the coin to pull their kids out of public school to put them in private ones- even though we actually pay for the public ones too! Public schools are not for making religious, political, sexual, or racial statements. Who is the freaking genious that let this happen?? They should be terminated.

I find it disgusting a educational facility that is taxpayer funded allows vandalism on the walls. Whomever hung these posters should be suspended and get to clean all the tape gunk off of the walls. I mean really, who freaking cares sbout a day of silence?? Will it make a difference either way?? Probably not. So just give it up and stop ruining the school walls that we paid good money for!

Liberal fascism is all this is. Their posters are allowed, Christian posters are not. That's all you need to know about their love of 'diversity.' What a joke.

Yes, homosexual people are THE SAME AS US. So why have a special day for them? Why have a special day for ANY group of people? If we are all the same no one should be honored for being different. I don't think that all, or even any of the hatred in the world will change just because a bunch of people don't talk for one day, it might even eventually become the catalyst for more jokes and hostility. Eliminate the idea of differences, just accept that people are different and don't point out that they are and maybe the differences won't be noticed. The remark about children being at risk is probably the funniest thing I've ever heard; no one(ESPECIALLY AT HIGHSCHOOL LEVEL)is going to change their sexual orientation based on some day of silence, the homosexuals will stay homosexual, their friends will stick up for them, and sadly there will still be just as many haters still hating just as strongly.But who has a right to say that being gay is a bad thing? We need gay people to help slow down the reproduction rate so we don't have so many jerks in the world making problems out of differences.

OLIVIALYN~ I don't think that most people are concerned whether it is wrong to be gay or not, I am assuming that most people, including myself are expressing their concern for the need of equality of all organizations. There are certain things that are not allowed in public schools because they are offensive to some, therefore, if this is taking away from the focus of studies and is offensive to some, then is should not be allowed. The day of silence is in good taste, and has a valid point, but children are sometimes not mature enough to do it just for the cause, as others have said, they make it a huge production to be silent and obstruct the lessons trying to be taught in the classroom.

garyPrimer
I like your response and you present a very reasonable issue. It does not focus on one specific group and it makes a very good point regarding disruption of class time. This is a very good point and one that I'm sure will be debated. I am a reasonable enlightened person and I do not stone people who make reasonable requests and brings forth good points of a debate. Very good point. Now if we can eliminate the homosexual and religious aspects of this discussion, we can be productive and learn from this experience.

hey ripzilla my keys stick.
sooooo somtimes i miss letters.
and my father is very much a part of my brothers life. so back off of him thanks.
and just because my brother is gay doesnt mean he's not gonna live a normal life. he can very well live normal life gay or not. and he desnt need to be enrolled in anything like big brothers big sisters, cuz he has one already whose who loves him very musch and is there to tell close mineded biggots like you to get thier head out of thier butts.

It is pretty funny how religion is brought into this, because the bible says it is "wrong to be gay". The bible also says "Thou shall not steal", "Thou shall not lie", "Thou shall not commit adultery". I know many said "Christians" who do these things on a regular basis and think nothing of it. I think people use the bible as an excuse for their close minded way of thinking and their homophobia. Teenagers have it hard enough with crazy hormones and confusion without us as parents and teachers coming on the Gazette to tell them they are freaks and should have no rights because they are gay. Gay and Lesbian people are everywhere and are exactly the same and the rest of us, besides who they choose to love and having to constantly prove themselves to close minded people. Why do we care? If it is not affecting us, then why be so afraid of their lifestyle? This is why their are bullies and gay bashing groups, because we as parents keep raising our children to believe it is wrong. Having posters up in school will not turn your children gay! It will teach them to be tolerant of all people, no matter if they are different than us or not and will make for a better future for our children where everyone can be treated equal regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference. As far as making out or groping each other in the school halls or anywhere in public for that matter, I agree that is wrong, but not because someone is gay and it disgusts you, but because I don't want to see anyone groping each other whether they are hetero or homo sexual. What ever happened to teaching our children to treat others like you want to be treated.

Who honestly thinks that a poster is going to promote a gay lifestyle? Quit being so ignorant people. No kid is going to decide to be gay just because he saw it on a poster. This is just the most absurd thing. And so what if boys are kissing boys and girls are kissing girls. Are you going to stop the boys from kissing the girls too? It's only fair. It's not illegal to be gay so why shouldn't they be allowed to show their affection the same way the straight students there do? I'm not gay, by the way. Just tolerant. And we'd be a much more peaceful world if we were all just a little more tolerant. Just because a person lives their life in a way that differs from yours does not change the fact that they are human like you and me. You have the right to live your life the way you want. Don't they deserve the same?

The comments here and in the article make me hopeful. It seems that high school students are capable of maturity and tolerance, while certain fully-grown adults are still struggling with the concept.

thank you quam, I agree with you completely.

I am absolutely disgusted by anyone who thinks this should not be allowed. There is nothing wrong with being gay, the only reason people think there is something wrong with it is because they think God told them it was wrong. Would you like it if I made fun of you for being straight? Would you like it if I looked down upon you for your sexual orientation?

I guess you missed the biggest point Jesus and God tried to make. To love no matter what, not to judge. I bet you tell your children not to bully other kids at school and I bet you tell your children not to stare at someone of a different. So what's the difference if they are gay?

In the bible it also states that before a woman is allowed to speak, she must wipe the feet off of every man in the room and she must have permission. I guess we should follow that rule too?? But nope, you probably think that's "outdated". You think you can pick and choose what God said.

I feel sorry for you.

I will admit, when I was in high school I was very much ANTI gay. I was brought up in a very strict catholic household, live in a small town, and was taught by VERY close minded people that GAY was wrong. Since I've graduated, grown up, and lived my life, I've come to realize that Gay people are exactly the same as I am. We are all humans, and it is not up to us, as a human race to judge what another person feels, thinks, or believes. It is up to God. Not us, in fact, those who pass judgment, are just as sinful as those they judge. I see all these comments on this board, a majority of which have a "religious" undertone, and it makes me sad, these people feel that they know what God thinks, and in reality, they should just live THEIR life to what they think God wants, and leave the judging to Him.

After reading some of these comments, I'm just amazed. The Day of Silence is to promote tolerance not a gay lifestyle. The picture on the poster is one of a young adult whose life was brought to a tragic end due to hatred and intolerance. Instead of bashing homosexuals, continually misinterpreting Bible scriptures, and telling our young adults that tolerance and standing up for their beliefs are wrong, perhaps we need to focus on the fact that a human life came to a tragic end. That should sadden us all...heterosexuals, homosexuals, Christians, janitors, and school board members. It should sadden us all.

GSA should be in schools no more than Nazi's or Klansmen. (I don't those either)

This should not be allowed to take place in schools. The GSA is pushing pro-gay views onto other students who want don't want to, and don't have to accept their choice in sexual preference. I think that if the GSA can exist isn't my right to have an anti-gay club? this is just like reverse racism...like having only ethnic scholarships or having all black colleges.

Latasha- "and ho dare yo call me under educated"

Enough said, well almost enough- it is sad to see that your brother was brought into the world in a time where every TV show has a token gay, although it is meant for humor- some are not mentally stable enough to realize that. How can your 11 year old brother have any sexual feelings yet- does that not make him a 4th or 5th grader?? I think I was still ripping the wings off of flies and playing with matchbox cars at that age. It is most unfortunate that he probably is just lacking the male role model figure in his life, maybe get him enrolled in big bros/big sisters or scouting and he will still have a chance to live a normal life. It just sucks that society has broken down this far.

No thank you.

ok you guys,
im a 15 year old freshman.
i was rasied to see that everyone is the same, no matter thier skin color, thier religious beliefs, ethicnic background, sexual prefernce, or any of that. and no. the people who say that being gay is wrong? im NOT gonna give them the chance. you know why? there telling me my brother, my smart wonderful 11 year old brother is wrong because hes gay. and that makes me want to cry. it makes me mad ok. i love him more then anything in the world, and for someone to tell me hes wrong and dammed to hell for telling the world he's gay, something i respect him for, and something that makes him a hero of mine for life, makes me VERY angry. it doesnt matter if being gay is "wrong" and if thier going to hell. its not you, your not the one. so stop worring about it. stop telling someone what thir doing is wrong. stop saying thier couprrpting your kids. YOUR doing it by teaching your kids people who can be some of the nicest, most kindest people in the world are WRONG and going to hell for something as menial as thier sexual prefrence and ho dare yo call me under educated, ripzilla! just the fact that im 15, and im sit here and i know my stuff, more then your avergae 15 year old, that i accept these people for being them selfs shows im educated. please dont insult me like that ever again

Mr. Sodemann

I appreciate your attention to these comments and the care of your answers. I will repost my previous comment to you out of curiosity. My question is this:

Would other groups/clubs be able to have activities that coincide with class time and potentially conflict with the normal academic proceedings?

I would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Wow! This a lot of talk about a day of silence. I am not for the discrimination of anybody. An issue that I have with the day of silence is that it seems to have the potential to impede the regular academic proceedings of the day. For example, a class that is participation based, would regretfully not be as good that day due to the lack of input of some bright students. It would be my preference that the silence be carried out between classes and during lunch. When a group carries an activity like this into the classroom I find that to be disruptive and academically inappropriate.

sandbruin: you say people only start complaining about public affection when it comes to gays, and only then proceed to claim it applies to straight couples, too? So? How many times does the subject come up on forums like these (concerning straight people making out), or in other venues that would allow you to make the judgement that they are just trying to hide their hate, instead of considering the possibility that they really don't feel comfortable watching ANYONE making out in public? But-whenever I've seen anyone-any persuasion-giving each other a major workover in public, I have known without a doubt it wasn't to share personal and intimate affection-it was done strictly for public display-because any mature person, or person in love, would want to find a place to be alone with his/her mate while being that intimate. By the way, your school must have been built between 1990 and 1995 I guess, if it is, and I quote you "high school at the height of puberty and all those hormones."
garyprimer: of course you are correct (imo). Not sure what will be gained at the end of the day that couldn't be gained in another setting, and if they have the power to put this thing together, they certainly should be able to do it just as well, if not better, in a setting that would not be mired down by the presence of some people not wanting to participate.

I am not very gay about this.

Disruption of class!!!!! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED. IF YOU had ever sat in on a parker class recently, a maximum of like 5 kids raise their hand the entire class. Teachers have to beg students to participate. The lack of respect has increased significantly and more and more students are getting away with rediculous crap that impedes my learning. Complain about that. Don't complain about people being silent. Maybe, if you looked closer, you'd realize for one day I might actually learn something because students would have to be attentive and listen and BE QUIET so i could actually hear the teachers. And just because someone doesn't talk, doesn't mean they're not learning. Some of the people tied for valevictorian of the junior class rarely say a peep the entire day and they could probably out wit you!

Latasha- you sound like an under-educated democrat, I agree with Garyprimer, schools are for education. They are not for promoting PETA, the NAACP, local advertising, blood drives, gay or straight lifestyles, or any other feel good causes. The sad truth is- gay is wrong. If everyone was gay the human race would cease to exist. If your parents were gay you would not exist. I don't want my kids exposed to people seking attention by acting out in strange ways. See - don't worry Gary, they can try to stone me. "Ripzilla for Governor!"

ripzilla....ROTFLMAO That was cute.

garyPrimer
Most people aren't actually silent on National Day of Silence and in fact many sport a ribbon in support of those whose lives were taken from them because of hate. Of course the teachers can't actually participate and stay silent but some students do, but really even if it wasn't National Day of Silence I don't talk all day long at school anyways.

Also, more generally, why is it that a gay person has to prove that he/she was born that way for many of you to respect and treat that person like a human being? That sounds very un-christian if you ask me...

GARYPRIMER.....Yippee...you are soooooo right. Thank you for seeing things my way. This is an example of how this affects the ones whom chose to be uneffected. Their choice has been taken away by the classes being disrupted.

Many kudos to Jdowd. Again, as a PHS student, I couldn't agree more. Reevaluate the lesson this sends to us as students. Homophobia is completely irrational. A gay person is no different than a normal person you may not like. You may not be super best friends with them, or agree with their lifestyle, but YOU TREAT THEM LIKE A HUMAN BEING. And as for our schooling right now, gee don't we think issues like these are being discussed in the classrooms and this is taking away from our learning time. Oh by the way, these posters are not the promotion of a lifestyle, so take those blinders off and open your eyes. It's EDUCATING STUDENTS on how this group of people is treated. I doubt you would challenge it if it were the same poster with African American information. If it said, BE GAY! thats one thing, but it doesn't. And the fact that our own school board members can't except gay students seems quite controversial in itself. I swear, they just start issues to cause drama. The school board should be a model for students; if I had a kid, I hope they would have more decency and respect then this.

I'm not an angry hate mob or anything, teachers at the schools dont participate in the silence, for the most part, they wear the day of silence t-shirt as an Ally. As teachers they still have to teach the classes so not speaking would be rather difficult, however Students not speaking is of no disruption, you can still learn. The teachers are there for the support of the students who truely believe in what they are standing up for, as well as standing up for their own possible beliefs

okay seriously you guys, the point of this is to promote tolerance, how can you claim to understand this yet you are bashing eachothers own views. Who cares if you are christian or not, gay or not, in the end it doesnt matter, you are the same human being.

if you had known a person for multiple years, and you were really close friends and trusted eachother completely, if they came to you and told you they were gay, would you stop being friends with them? A person's sexual orientation doesn't change who they are, it makes them their own unique person, just as a person's religion does. Your experiences through life make you who you are, not peoples opinions. If you dont like what somebody says, just ignore it. We are all different, we all have different views about any given topic. The world spends too much time going on and on about peoples differences. Why waste the time? You are wasting time by hating people and discriminating for their orientation or religious views. Why bother? Hate is only extra baggage in your life, living a life accepting people for who they are, is what really matters.

This is a touchy subject, just as religion, but the only reason it is touchy, is because people allow it to.

Believe it or not, I have been reluctant to comment on this story because of the emotionally-charged subject matter. For this reason, I do not care to comment on what appears to be the main subject, but on something else about this promotion that should concern everyone. If I understand this properly, (and if I don't, I am sure that I will be attacked by an angry mob of intolerant hate-mongers posing as enlightened individuals) the suggestion being made by this organization is that students (and possibly teachers) will not speak for the entire day. This seems to be a disruption of the educational process that will almost certainly impede learning. I do not feel that this is a productive use of our educational facilities and constitutes a hijacking of the school system. That said, let the stoning begin.

You may not like couples making out but come on, this is high school at the height of puberty and all those hormones. I find it hilarious that people only start complaining about public affection when it comes to same-sex couples and then proceed to say that it "applies to both straight and gay couples," when really you're just trying to hide your hate.

Commissoner Murrays comments on whether this should be the way gay and lesbian issues should be displayed in schools. Violence, harassment, and bullying is a fact of life in our world. This issue is no different than a club working toward ending domestic violence toward women or discrimination against African Americans. The homophobic mindset of this community really need to change. We don't have to like it but there is no reason we can't treat people as people without consideration of their significant other.

It doesn't matter if they are gay or straight. I don't want to see couples making out in the hall way. I go to school for an education not a make out fest.
Latasha yes it does make me slightly uncomfortable seeing any couple make out in the hall ways. Thats something that should't be done in a learning enviroment. I have nothing wrong with gays but lately it seems like they are asking for it making out in the halls knowing people are going to say/do something mean. And it's impossible to get to class to class with out seeing couples make out it's easier said than done " just don't look at it"

Mr. Sodemann,
I would like you to identify one name I called you on this blog. My comments have been directed toward you as an elected official and your wife as someone who publically made comment. I have not called you anything but has focused on your actions in your role as a school board commissioner, affecting my child's education. I have raised my children to respect everyone and my comments are not personal and they are not mentioning anything which you have not said or displayed.
I will watch and let many issues slide(and I have over the years) and I won't say a word. Now, I will not stand by and watch the school district be turned into a anti-gay, christian persecution event to save all from the moral pits of hell. I send my children from pre-k to 8 grade to a parochial school. I teach reeligious education and I also volunteer my time for a confirmation retreat. My children have a very strong faith as well as I. My faith focuses on treating every person with respect and dignity and challenging those who use the bible and personal religious beleifs to discriminate or judge others. I have tried to express my opinion and my side of the issue. I have never once used any term directed at you based on personality, but of the comments and actions displayed regarding this situation. I have reviewed my comments and I have not called you one name. I would challenge you to identify one instance where I have resorted to name calling , I have always been polite and civil with all of my interactions with you. You really have no idea how you come across as looking as being discrimatory toward homosexuals?
This issue has nothing to do with being gay. It has nothing to do with religion. This issue is about people being mean and physically hurting someone because some other does not agree or they are a different color or sexual orientation. Don't attempt playing the role of victim Mr. Sodemann, it is very clear this issue has been distorted to accomodate your personal agenda regarding religion in the schools and your dislike of the gay "lifestyle."
I have been very passionate with my response and I have demanded explanation from the administration at Parker and the school district. The one sentence email I received from Dr. Carlson is not an acceptable response and I hope he knows I am expecting more. I have not challenged anyone publicly for many years. This is the issue which I will receive an explanation from the school district and one that I will not let slip into the sunset. Americans are Americans and this discrimination and munipulation to justify religion as a way to judge others should not be tolerated.

bubbles, you wanted proof that "that people are "born like that"". If you get a chance to take a college class on Human Development, UWW has a good one, you will learn that if a trait is 100% genetic then you would be able to trace it just like baldness, blue eyes, Down Syndrome, etc. If a trait is learned, then you should be able to trace it to re-inforced behaviors. For instance, if identical twins were studied and one was gay then the odds would be that both would be gay (hence, identical). If identical twins were separated and one went to a GL couple and became GL but the identical twin that went to a "straight" couple remained "straight" then you could say it was learned behavior. Research has shown that it is neither of these two polar extremes. Hence, more likely, (since we know how often science gets it right the first time), it is a combination of genetics and environment (nature & nurture). People say they have open minds but talk is as cheap as a Presidential Debate. I can admit that GLBT's face discrimination, mistreatment and even death and at the same time I can admit that Christians also face discrimination, mistreatment, and even death for their way of life (check out http://voiceofthemartyr.org/).

Latasha,

Why should you treat people with tolerance and respect, even people you don't like? Because you are asking others to do the same. If you don't treat them with respect and tolerance, you have no right to ask them to treat you with respect and tolerance.

The reason Dr. King was such a powerful leader is because he treated the people who hated him (and eventually killed him) with respect. He won his arguement by conviction, leading by example, and intelligence. Not anger, intolerance, and disrespect.

Some day, this white guy hopes to be half the man Dr. King was.

you know at UW Rock Co. they have had ribbons you can wear in support of the day of silence. You can choose to wear them and not speak or you can wear them and speak but still support the cause.

I totally agree with you Latasha.
im a freshman too, and i go to Parker and i see discrimination constantly toward a lot of my REALLY GOOD friends.

this community just keeps getting worse and worse.
we're going into major downfall.

fbcoach66, once again, YOU DONT KNOW ME. i give people chances. but when they sit there and call me a lesbian and all this other stuff, just because i do or say something they dont like, or because im in GSA, why should i anymore?

Once again, 1 Cor 6:9-11, if this lifestyle is not pleasing to God, He would not have created us like that. It is a choice that He allows us to make. Just as anything else in life, we can choose to do the best we can to live a life pleasing to God, or choose the worldly way that is self gratifying.

Latasha,

If it is all about tolernce and acceptance of other who have different beliefs than you, why do you have so much anger and lack of tolerence for others?

If you cannot show tolerance for others who have different beliefs have you not just prove how uneffective the DOS really is?

Personally, I don't want to see anyone kissing at my workplace, so no one (man/woman/dog etc.) should be kissing at school. I know it is not tolerated at Craig, I have no info about Parker.

optimism, do you know me? no. dont tell me i need to get along with other people. when people sit there and sa all this stff about gay people, not only are they talking about my friends, but my fanily. my brother is gay and this is impornant to me. so dont tell me that if you dont know me.
thanks.

latasha ~ looks like you could use some conditioning on how to get along well with others.

and another thing swtlilone2, why is it ok for hetrosexual couples to mack out in the halls but not the gay/lesbain ones?
why can hetro couples show thier love < if thats what one would call that SUCK FEST > but not gay/lesbians? because it makes you uncomfortable?

upnorthwi, i may be young, but i have more compassion and understanding at this "young" age then you will ever have in your LIFE. and shut your face. i AM Christian. so in your face! and yes. im angry. maybe cuz um, i dont like to see my friends hated cuz of who they are. and um.....i dont know where but i belive it also says somewhere in the bible....all men are created equal? hm. maybe im just crazy

JSM thanks for your support, but i like boys. and only boys. haha.

swtlilone2 if you dont like seeing two people make out heres a hint. dont look! woot woot for the smart ones! AND BUCKO. how does a bunch of people not talking get in the way of your learning?

One final comment. I do not know who writes the headlines for the Gazette (Frank Schultz are you reading this?), but the whole intent was not to "Hush" anyone as the headline indicated, but to make sure that all are treated fairly and to distinguish between what is educational vs. promotional for any group/club. Was the headline written to create more controversy and thus sell more papers?
Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

upnorth Can you please show us the proof in your claim that people are "born like that" not being true?

JSM: I did talk to David Moore this morning and I am on very solid legal ground.

Zoom: No "official organization" that I am aware of complained about the posters. I received concerns from some teachers, my kids and some other parents about the amount and content of some of the posters.

The issue again is about fairness and treating all groups that exist now or in the future equally. My comment about putting up posters of Christians who have been martyred for their faith was done as a comparison to the hundreds of posters that were put up at Craig that showed various people who were killed because of their sexual orientation. If you allow one, then you have to allow the other. This does not, and is not intended to, minimize the atrocity and horror of bullying and especially killing someone because they are gay/lesbian etc.

I don't understand some of the comments that accuse me or my wife of being hateful (Jdowd). We have not done or said anything that can be construed in that manner. We are not the ones who are doing the "name calling".

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

I don't shove and I don't claim to follow the bible to a tee and I don't claim to know all right from wrong AND I am a sinner just as anyone else! I'm just so tired of people saying "you're born like that". It's not true, old saying goes "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". Criticize me all you want, I'm fine with my stance and those of you who claim to be Christians and get all bent out of shape when the Bible is "put into play" shame on you. (FYI, I'm a female)AND I NEVER said I hated gay people or had no compassion for them. You can hate the sin and not the sinner, you know! There is a difference.

zum09, i agree completely with you.
those posters at our school are doing nothing but bringing attention to what REALLY happens in this world.

one of my really good friends is gay/transgender. It doesn't matter because i like them for who they are. Just because someone has a different sexual orientation than you doesn't mean you need to pre-judge them. The fact is that YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. If some of you got to know these kinds of people, and give them the respect they deserve, then you would see that they are no more different than you.

alright, I'm a student at Parker High School and I have some of the teachers in charge of GSA. Let me just state, firstly, how digusted I am with our school district right now. As if I was about to say what next, this comes up. Well, let me just say, I personally don't care for gay/lesbian relationships but thats not what the posters are about. THEY ARE PROMOTING TOLERANCE. And OH WOW, if your children can't handle a poster in school, what next? Are we going to go back to the days of slavery and have gay and straight drinking fountains. It seems like 90% of janesville is homophobic. SO YOUR NOT GAY? Big deal. My god, what lesson are you teaching us as students, that we're not mature enough to know about these things. I can't believe, going to high school, could be so much drama. Oh and to the comment by the school member, you want to know why it makes our schools look unsafe? BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!! BUT GUESS WHAT?? It's not from the gays and lesbians. It's from the kids that come to school stoned and drunk, the gangster hallways where fights constantly errupt, the vandilazation, the teachers that just overlook kids hitting each other "FOR FUN". Really, I think we need to reevaluate our efforts here. You want to spend some time complaining about something or working on something? Fix the test scores of our students that are dropping, help the kids flunking or dropping out, help the drug or alcohol addicted kids, or the ones that are just looking for an ear. Really, "gayness" is not a disease, but you know, it's adults like these that make "homophobic kids" and make kids spit on those who are gay or fear them.

if these groups are able to put up pro-homosexual isn't my right to put up anti-sexual posters? i am a student at one of the high schools and i find it offensive that the signs are up all over.

upnorthwi,
"...only Christians get it"--eek. It is Christian attitudes such as this that many are turned off by. I, too, am a Christian, but the difference between you and I is that I do not "shove the dove" or claim to know all right from wrong "because it is in the Bible" as a part of my witness. To your comment about following the Bible, I hope you realize that if we were to follow the Bible to a tee, you would not be wearing more than one fabric at any given time, touching a woman for whom it is that time of the month, etc. Who are we--humankind--to presume we KNOW these things? I will be judged. You will be judged. In the meantime, let's show some compassion and consideration for our fellow human.

Optimism Nowhere in what I wrote did I "put down " or "look down" on Mr Winters for being a custodian. I was just stating the fact that he has access to the school when others do not and could have taken down the posters himself. Everyone at the schools from the custodians to the administration play an important role. I do know Mr Winters personally and often his fisrt priority is not his job but pushing HIS beliefs.

I go to Parker HS and there is gay/lesbian couples in most of the halls with their tongues down each others throats. My mom&dad pay for me to go to school, not to watch couples make out, if that was the case they wouldn't send me there. Don't get me wrong I think it' a good idea to have this crap but it gets out of hand. Whats the use of the posters? People rip them down not just the custodian. Students take the "day of silence" out of hand, making a big scene for not talking which gets in the way of my learning. There is other ways to show appreciation. Example have stickers made or something along those lines.

Bubbles ~ Sounds to me that you are discriminateing Mr. Winters for being different...for not being a teacher but a "custodian". Custodians are as important as the trash they pick up, right Bubbles? Come on, they are a very important part of how a school is ran, and their opinions are just as important as an administrator's. They probably see more of what goes on in the student population than an average teacher being they are in the halls more frequently then teachers are.

Did anyone take into consideration that Mr Winters is a custodian at Parker high school and is at the school very early in the morning before staff and students. He could have very well been the person who has removed a good share of these posters. He has no room to talk. He wears religious t-shirts and religious music is often heard coming from his head phones while at work. Is this ok? What might he be promoting? The man has an opinion on everything including politics and is very outspoken about it. He is often not nice when he voices his opinions. Mrs. Winters had no business even being at the schools for we all know it was just to see the posters and for her to start pushing her beliefs on others. Would that not be the same as her claim that the gay straight alliance is pushing their beliefs? Mr. Winters needs to do his job and let the Administration at the school district do theirs.

optimism - Sorry, but I haven't a clue what you are talking about, since I haven't read all the comments, specifically yours. My comment was simply an observation, not a judgement.

JustSome1...no disrespect...I am truely just having a debate with you, I hope you take no offense, but you did just contridict yourself. You were the one who was placing a shadow upon someone with another view than yours. I myself, and Upnorth as I understand it seem to have an attitude of we may not condone but we choose not to let it become a part of who we are. I am pointing out the fact that others can't seem to do that, that is why we have so many laws that would not be needed if we all could just agree to disagree.

So many people are preaching tolerance, but seem to have so little for those who have differing views. If you are going to talk the talk, be prepared to walk the walk.

Thank you

Why don't we pray for something that is of real need, peace.

And why is UPNORTH have an error of way? Because his isn't yours?

I am not saying the posters themselves are affecting me, it is that the subject of them has become a public stance. And as I stated, if you don't like something...YES ignore it, as people could have done that as well with the pledge ... they could sit and not participate. But, they couldn't, they had to take it to a level that it became a public stance. Therefore, both are in the same category of offending "someone" and should both be treated the same, eliminated. If in the beginning of time we all could have just gotten along and agreed to disagree, I believe there would be a lot more respect than there is now.

Expain how I'm violating? I'm not praying for forgiveness on this because I don't feel the need. Thanks for your "concern".

Upnorthwi, I'm sorry to see that you are violating the precepts of your own religion. Please pray for forgiveness and to see the error of your way.

Optimism, how do some posters in the hall affect you? Are you even a student at one of the high schools? The Pledge of Allegiance is different in that it is an activity that all students were forced to participate in. It is reciting a mantra. Posters are passive. If I don't like Lamar billboards when I am driving down Milton Ave., I don't have to pay attention to them.

JSM ~ I have to disagree with you. ALthough I am not for or against other people's choices, only my own...I do have to say that these situations do bring their lifestyles a part of ours. It is something that they are forcing upon individuals who are not seeking the information on their own. All should just be respectful of others, and know that if someone is in need of this organization, it is there for them to find when they need it. I really don't agree with pushing it upon others who may be uncomfortable with it. Just like the fact that The Pledge of Allegance was removed from the morning ritual of a school day. It made someone uncomfortable, therefore, it was removed. I don't agree with that, but if that is what has happened in the past, then that is what should be practiced in the present and the future. One uncomfortable person should not exceed the needs of another uncomfortable person. All should be treated with the same amount of respect. I firmly believe that if something offends you, ignore it, but that doesn't seem to work for the vast majority of people, that is why restrictions are put into place, which is fine, just make them universally in tact.

Sorry, only Christians really get it. And it does affect me when I, or my children see it. Once again, not judging, just telling the truth.

GSA is not just about gay rights. Its about a lot of other things too. maybe if some of you would just go to a meeting. you would understand.

Upnorthwi, the Bible is like a horoscope -- you can find a passage to support pretty much any proposition you'd like. Why don't you have the integrity to assume responsibility for your own views and admit that you don't like homosexuality instead of saying that you don't make the rules? And yes, you are judging. People can do what they want so long as it doesn't affect other people. If Latasha is in a relationship with an individual of the same sex, that is her business. Period. It doesn't affect you or I. If a bully harasses her or threatens her, it infringes on her rights.

PS, it's not about hurting feelings, it's about salvation.

latasha, you're young and at the end you sound angry. God clearly states that homosexuality is wrong In 1Cor. 6:9-11. I didn't make that law HE did. Like I said before, we're here to witness. I have had gay friends, I'm not judging, just stating the truth.

Latasha, you are my hero. So smart, and wise beyond your years.

I dont have a problem with same sex reationships of any kind. Who am I to deny someone their happiness?

you know, im 15 years old. and its sad when me, someone who hasnt even begun to life her life is able to accept everyone for who they are. im a feshman, and i have openly gay bisexual and transgender friends. some came out way back in te 7th grade, some only came out this year. ive had people come out for the first time to me, and its very hard for them. ive only been a part of my schools GSA for this year, but though it ive made some amazing friends. yes im straight, but i dont care who people are, or who they choose to be with. and no one else should either. what people dont understand is, is that DOS is NOT a way for people to tell people anything. its standing up for what is right. people dont need to agree with what were saying, but they DO need to sit and think to thier selfs "should i really hate someone just for thier sexual oraintaion? should i let the harrassment of innocent people go on because i dont agree with them?" are you condoning the fact that a 15 year old boy was gunned down for being gay? what if he had been straight? then what would you have done? you would be out there talking about how his killer needs to be in jail for the rest of his life. and as for the woman who didnt like to see people of the same gender kissing in the halls? i dont like seeing people of DIFFRNET gender kissing in the halls either. get the stick out of your butt and get over your self woman!! jeeze its the 2000's! if you dont like it, lock yourself in your house and dont come out! i dont like walking down the hall trying to get to my locker only to be stopped by the huge suck face fest going on, but i get over it. you can too. all the GSA's around the country are doing is making it so tha GLBTQ students can come to school, and know that there are people in that huge biggot crowd of people that DO accept them. thats all were doing. and i think i should mention, i belive in god, and i think that no matter what, he loves us all. and when you get up to heaven hes not gonna ask you, "ho hum. were you gay?" no. hes gonna ask you "wow. did you do what i asked and love all for what they are?" and your gonna be like all "oh yes god i did." and the hes gonna be all "your a liar! what about the gays, lesbains, bisexuals and transgenders? what are they not people? do they not have feelngs? oh. oh your going to hell." and he'll smite you to hell and you can go live with every other biggot in the wold. have fun!!!!

I have no problem as long as ALL organizations are given the same rights/responsibilities. An organization that deals with the Christian faith that is organized by the school students does not fall under the Constitutional right of seperation of church and state since it is about the kids interests (no I am not an expert in Constitutional Law but I do have some legal training). Secular or not secular should not matter. If students have an interest, then they should be allowed to have an organization and have the same rights and the same responsibilities. Otherwise there is discrimination. Just like there are those who disagree with what the LGBT organization represent, I am sure there are those people who disagree with what a Christian organization represents. If one group gets rights and pivileges then all groups should get the same but then I am just a thinker and not afraid of any organization.

janesvillegirl72, how sad that you think this is about being afraid of gay people. I think Catholics call themselves Christians and you think it's ok to be gay. Don't Catholics read the bible? I don't want my children to be taught tolerance and acceptance of this "alternative" lifestyle. My children know that it is a sin and not accepted in our family. I don't, however, teach them to hate those that are. People bash "bible thumpers" but you know what? I'd rather follow the bible and gee, if I did it for nothing, oh well, but if I lived the "wordly life" and when I died I REALLY see God face to face it's not a happy ending (or beginning) for me. True, only God judges, but we are to witness along the way.

Bill,
When I said "group", I should have said "organization". Have other school organizations complained about the GSA posters? I am wondering why you asked about putting up posters of religious figures.

FYI - Parker administration did not cave and take down the signs. Somebody, adult or student is unknown, removed the signs without approval. The student group had gone through the appropriate channels to put these signs up; signs that, as others have stated, do NOT advocate a lifestyle, but educate that violence on others is unacceptable, were removed by self-serving individuals who clearly do NOT know how to go through the appropriate channels to achieve their ends. As for the numerous comments regarding physical displays of affection, and usually, open sexuality whether same sex or opposite sex - do not think these students are exaggerating. Beyond the issue of homosexuality or heterosexuality, I really wish students would learn that engaging in this behavior in PUBLIC is disgusting and disrespectful to themselves and others. I do not see this type of behavior in any other public area, such as doctor's offices, grocery stores, car repair shops, or Boston Store! Please teach these children some decorum and self-control. Sorry to digress...I am proud to see that most of our student commentators on this topic are calm, rational, and articulate. Clearly, education IS taking place in our schools.

I am a senior at Craig High School, and I have been participating in the Day of Silence since my freshman year. The Day of Silence is about safer schools, tolerance and positive change. Some organizations misrepresent these facts. We are only trying to stop the anti-LGBT name-calling, bullying and harassment in schools. Our vow of silence isn't disrupting any classes, we are taking a stand in what we believe, which we have the right to do. As a member of the LGBT community, I find it reassuring that we are able to have a positive impact on how people are viewing LGBT's. From what I've noticed now, the students understand what our goal is, it is the parents who do not understand. The GSA is not actively endorsing the gay lifestyle,our goal is to have tolerance of differences and standing up to the discrimination/bullying.
GSA is not just a group for Gays, Lesbians, Bi-sexuals or transgenders. it is a Gay-Straight Alliance.

Since we take a vow of silence that day, we have speaking cards, I will share with you what they say: "Please understand my reasons for not speaking today. I am participating in the Day of Silence, a national youth movement bringing attention to the silence faced by lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people and their allies. My deliberate silence echoes that silence, which is caused by anti-LGBT bullying, name-calling, and harassment. This year's DOS is held in memory of Lawrence King, a 15 year-old student who was killed in school because of his sexual orientation and gender expression. I believe that ending the silce is the first step toward building awareness and making a commitment to adress these injustices. Think about the voices you are not hearing today. What are you going to do to end the silence?"

for more information about what the Day of Silence is really about go to their website.
http://www.dayofsilence.org/

JM727, thank you for your articulate comments. I agree with you completely. It has been a while since I was in high school, but I recall much of the heterosexual 'grinding' you describe, not to mention all the hickeys displayed and stories that would be publicly shared.

I have to admit - these comments are pretty open-minded and insightful. Kudos to the Janesville residents who tolerate and accept others not matter their orientation or status.

Well done!!

And about homosexual couples kissing or holding hands : there are only three pairs of homosexuals who I have seen throughout my four years at Parker giving so much as a peck in the hallway.

Much more worrisome are the boys who lean against a locker, with a girl pressing her rear end into his pelvis and rubbing her butt around her crotch. This goes on with "straight" couples all the time--practically dry-humping in the halls. This isn't to mention all the butt-and-boob grabbing that goes on.

It doesn't matter what an individual personally finds to be uncomfortable to them. The guarantee of this club to exist is one that is enshrined in the constitution and in federal and state laws, and the school district's own rules. If people are going to go after this one, they must also go after groups that promote racial harmony and any group devoted to a particular religion.

Speaking as a student who attends Parker--The horrendous level of intolerance and sheer hatred on display here is disgusting and wounding to the human mind and spirit. I'm not a member of this club, but I guarantee, none of the students at the schools have problems with it, as this Day of Silence has happened numerous times in the past with no problem.

The principals of the schools and the rational, non-insane members of the school board have to stand up to this and say "no." You cannot bend over backwards every time someone complains that they're offended by a certain thing.

I cannot believe in this day and age that people are still afraid of gays. My son attends Craig and does not even pay attention to these signs, they do not phase him. Teenagers are accustomed to being around openly gay or bisexual people. However, the intolerance of adults is being taught to them, that is where bullying comes from, we teach our kids intolerance and fear. All this crap about some posters that bring up a very good point, teen on teen violence, it is not just about being gay, it is about awareness and tolerance. All these Christians who have a problem with it should not judge, it is not their job only God will do that. PS I am a Catholic and I have no problem with gays.

Wow! This a lot of talk about a day of silence. I am not for the discrimination of anybody. An issue that I have with the day of silence is that it seems to have the potential to impede the regular academic proceedings of the day. For example, a class that is participation based, would regretfully not be as good that day due to the lack of input of some bright students. It would be my preference that the silence be carried out between classes and during lunch. When a group carries an activity like this into the classroom I find that to be disruptive and academically inappropriate.

It's almost like people think that people who are gay are not people at all and can be stripped of their rights and treated like animals..I think we all just need to get along. the world would be so much better if we loved one another and not hated everyone because their different... as for the seeing gay couples make out in the halls at school its no different than seeing two strait people doing the same thing.

MeloniFan4Ever, no i found that extremely disgusting as well

It's as simple as this...Do unto others as you would have done to you. Plain and simple. If people could just be mature and live by example, there would be no need for this junk. If you don't like what is going on, there is no law stating you have to acknowledge it...ignore it if it doesn't apply to you. Period. The offended give the power to the offender. Take it away.

Mom5, it is because the public schools are essentially forced socialization. Sure, in an ideal world, students would go to class to simply learn. However, some kids also take it as an opportunity to inflict a lot of needless pain and suffering on other kids. That inhibits learning and therefore it is directly relevant to education.

Its great that all these parents are speaking up and saying that they can teach their kids correct morals. It is always some other parents' children who are creating the problems.

Dear Bill & Friends, You’ll be happy to know that signs cheering pro-heterosexual activities like Prom 2008 and the Post-Prom Party are posted liberally all over the school. As a student group advisor at Craig, I have never heard of any regulations on the types of signs that a teacher advised student group can put up on the walls except that posters have to carry an official school stamp. The first amendment gives us freedom of religion, but also separates church and state, so religious groups accordingly have limitations in ways that secular groups do not. I think all this drama is really about the active Gay Straight Alliance student presence in the high schools bringing attention to situations in which people are victimized for being gay. What is “disgustingly regretful” is how district residents and some board members harass others for their sexual orientation and that the adults and leaders in this community can’t model a better way for students.

Westside - Did you appreciate dodging the hetero couples?

Correct me if I am overstepping my bounds here...but when did the schools become so wrapped in sexuality instead of teaching? It shouldnt matter if they are gay or straight. School is supposed to be about learning, not hes gay or shes not. I dont walk around saying I am straight and putting up posters of straight people, why should people who arent?

i do not agree with gay people being gay. But that is their choice.
BUT i know alot of gay people and theyre all great people and shouldnt be BASHED. so the sign should stay. their should be other signs too though that chilren get beat up about. hopefully these kids will have an open mind and realize to be nice to everyone!!!

Mrbread, I agree with you completely.

I completely agree with you Northman. Well put. MeloniFan4Ever, did you even read the post from Northman or are you just anxious to comment on those with different opinions? The post was well written.

I think the message here is tolerance, not endorsement of a lifestyle. I doubt that seeing a poster is going to convince someone to be gay. But it might influence a bully to consider how he interacts with someone, or the slang he uses. Its amazing, it appears as though the students need to teach the adults in this community a thing or two about tolerance. It appears that we are too willing to relinquish another of our civil rights to avoid thought provoking forms of expression in a public institution.

ya well a few years ago when i was still in high school i didn't appreciate trying to get to class, and having to dodge around a group of homosexual kids making out and practically groping each other.. that is what i find offensive...that is the real problem

RUSerious, I think blue63 simply meant that Winters sounded like a total square.

Rocksolid, just a recommendation: talk with David Moore before you try to interpret Constitutional law. There is jurisprudence on the separation of church and state, e.g. Everson v. Board of Education. I hope no students are reading this, considering you are a member of the school board.

well said northman

officerfriendly are you kiidng me?? Your comment is just stupid....

As a soon-to-be-parent, I find it heartbreaking that my son or daughter will grow up among people who believe that ignorance, not subjectivity and consideration for the feelings of others, is a virtue.

Zoom: I am not sure if I understand your questions, but I'll give it my best shot. There once was, and probably will be again, a Christian Bible Study group at Parker (Craig has one). They should, and will, have the same rights as the GSA (certain parameters must be followed). If you are asking if there have been complaints of harassment or bullying filed by Christians - I don't know. But I also don't know of complaints filed by GSA members. Does harassment take place towards Christians? Yes - just like it takes place towards many groups such as GL, minorities, special needs, other religious etc.

I would hope that all people, Christian or not, would agree and work towards the end of bullying to anyone. Wouldn't it be neat if a different day was set aside and these diverse groups came together to call attention to bullying behavior!

As to the "Separation of Church and State", it is not in the Constitution and is often misunderstood. (Government shall not ESTABLISH a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.) Allowing a Bible group to form at school, does not establish a religion.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

Personally, I would find it "DISGUSTINGLY REGRETFUL" to WATCH CAROL WINTERS eat what was a living, breathing, feeling, frightened animal for dinner that was killed soely for her enjoyment. I would find it "DISGUSTINGLY REGRETFUL" to see someone BEAT a peaceful, caring and GAY person only for their enjoyment. I would find it "DISGUSTINGLY REGRETFUL" to see human beings that all look, think and worship the same AND are NOT holding hands! Free will, thankfully we all have it. Tolerence please.

Get out of 1960’s blue63? I’ve seen similar comments pertaining to “morality” many times, (like-it’s no longer the 1800’s, 1920’s, 1990’s) but I’m never quite sure what it means. Does it mean morals degrade over time and those degraded morals should become acceptable, or does it mean what we come to think of as “proper” evolves over time, or does each new generation think the generation before it were childish prudes, or what? And why? If so, what will those self-appointed moral compasses in the year 2080 be saying is proper when they remind us that it is no longer 2008? Sex as a spectator sport in grade school? Sex expression seminars for man and his best friend given at the vet’s? Murder for sport on ESPN? All exaggerations? Well then, what DOES “get out of the 1960’s” mean? I always thought the 1960’s were supposed to be times of some sort of sexual revolution. Maybe the revolution continues. If so, I am really curious about 2080.
But-as I’ve expressed under several stories here, I agree that tolerance is a BIG problem, and also I’ve wondered, in my posts, why: Spanish speakers (native and taught) can’t pledge their allegiance to their flag in any respectful way they choose (after all-we DID think enough of their land (for those whose roots are in Mexico) to annex part of their land a century and a half ago); and why “seniors” (as if seniors had some sort of corner on the checking market) should be not allowed to use checks over “faster” debit or credit cards in our marketplaces; and I’ve wondered why those who are perceived as “ugly” are assumed more likely to have committed the crimes they are charged with and/or their crimes are more heinous and/or those convicted of crimes are perceived as particularly nasty looking. I, too, think intolerance of gays, or any other people in an “alternative lifestyle” group, needs to stop, as long as the same freedoms are given to all in public places, etc. (prayer groups of any religion, AA groups, whatever)...but someone mentioned Nazis and KKK on a related story-Citizens voice concern over Gay-Straight Alliance in Janesville schools-(—these groups are already intolerant (and intolerable) so how could they fit in groups promoting tolerance?

Kudos to all the supportive comments!!!!!! It is so refreshing to see people look at the issue, not in the context of sexuality, but of acceptance and fairness. You cannot control who you fall in love with. Everyone should be able to be who they are, and not have to be afraid of being abused. The most important thing we can ever teach our kids is that its ok to be yourself, and always accept other people for who they are.

Bill,
What other groups are you supporting? Have their been complaints by other groups at school?

I hope we continue to maintain our separation of church and state. The GSA is not a religious organization, it is only opposed by them.

If I recall correctly, Jesus was a victim of bullying because of being different...his face should be along every wall of every institution in the world as a reminder.

Good point mommaof3. The Bible says "thou shalt not judge". I struggle with the issue myself because of my religion. I have friends and family that are gay - I still love them even though the issue may make me uncomfortable at times. I do not want them to be bullied or mistreated. The are wonderful people. I couldn't imagine not having them in my life.

This is a bigger issue than whether or not you are gay. It's an issue about economics, race, sexual orientation, fat/skinny, ugly/beautiful. I grew up as a student that was bullied because of being "poor". These kids are trying to show that the care about the treatment of others. Let them be...they are learning not just tolerance, but acceptance.

I will be participating in the Day of Silence on Friday. Will you?
Posters or not, GSA group or not.

If you think it's time for a change...then do something about it. If your school isn't comfortable with a GSA group... start your own in the community.

Winters said she had seen boy-boy and girl-girl kissing and holding of hands at both Craig and Parker.

“I just find that disgustingly regretful to even watch,” she said.

THEN DON'T WATCH!! And get outta 1960, would ya!

I am a member of the LGBT community and I feel that schools should allow the Day of Silence it gives the LGBT students a chance to speak out in their own way because not everyone can express themselves everyday one day out of the year won't kill anyone just because they want to help the LGBT community and there for the school district should allow days like this whether it be Day of Silence or Martin Luther King Day we should be allowed to choose what they want to do

I was given permission by Dr. Carlson to walk around the school so I knew first hand exactly what the issues were. As far as I know, the signs have not been taken down nor will they be. The issue is to make sure that all groups are given the same rights and access. At the first meeting I was told that other groups (religious) would not be entitled to do the same type of things that were being done by this particular group. I am now pleased to announce that the school district attorney agreed with my assessment regarding this issue. In summary, the door is now open for other groups (within certain limits) to also have the right to put up posters (within limits) and hold events. That is all that we were asking for. Both meetings that I had with the principals and director of student services were very productive, professional, and focused on what is best and fair for our students.

Nobody should be harassed or bullied for any reason - period.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

To the Winters family...does the Bible and ten commandments not also say...."thou shall not judge?"

proartist: Thank you for putting the link for day of silence on this blog. Maybe if all those posting negativity would read this they would find that it is not so much about a persons' sexual preference as it is about addressing the verbal and physical violence that happens. As a parent I do not like the thought of ANY couple kissing in the hallways of our schools, but I remember couples kissing when I was in high school in the 80's so it is not that much different.

Northman- Is it okay for straight couples to be all up your face about it? And high schoolers seeing posters about the Day of Silence isn't going to make them gay.

Frank, the fundamental difference between homosexuals, redheads, overweight individuals and the Winters is that the former 3 are just going about their business when they are bullied. The Winters went to a public forum and voluntarily made incindiary comments about a group of individuals that is historically discriminated against. It is a cute argument to say the Winters are now victims, but it doesn't hold water.

My 13 year old daughter goes to school in Milton and is a member of the GSA group there. She is planning on participating in the day of silence on Friday. My daughter is not gay, (not that it would matter to me if she was) but she has compassion for people who are threatened and bullied because of who they are.

The GSA is a group for everyone. It is not about being straight or homosexual. It is about tolerance, acceptance, and caring, something our children should be encouraged to learn. I am very proud that my daughter has the heart and the strength to stand up for what is right.
We could all learn a lot from these students.

It looks like the Gazette needs to have a day of silence to protest the harassment of the Winters. It's the rare business that would tolerate the kind of conduct that's allowed in schools. No one should be bullied, not homosexuals, fat people, redheads or the Winters. Practice the tolerance you preach and be nice to people who are different from you.

I would be willing to help put those posters back up tonight. Contact me if you need help.

Reading through the postings shows why some people get so worked up over this issue.
Everyone should be free to like or dislike, condone or not condone, approve of or disapprove of, the gay lifestyle. But when someone voices disapproval, or anything short of lock-step acceptance, he/she is immediately branded a narrow-minded bigot. The hatred that comes from the “you will accept the gay lifestyle” folks rivals anything I’ve ever seen come from a true bigot.
You’re talking about a sexual orientation that for millennia has been frowned on or outright banished from polite society. Then, about 40 years ago, the Defining Deviancy Downward Society waved their magic wands, and it went from being a “deviant lifestyle” to an “alternative lifestyle”. Oddly enough, not everybody was ready, willing, or able to make that shift in their belief systems.
Should we tolerate kids getting beat up because they are gay? Absolutely not. But do kids have to walk down the hallway and see posters advocating the gay lifestyle every few feet? Again, absolutely not. High school is just not the right place for it. Be gay if you want, but don’t get in my face about it, please.

I'm offended the signs have been removed. I love how the administration caves at the first complaint. Reminds me of the picture which appeared on a Parker Playhouse performance when one mother complained.
What about those of us who pay taxes for the school district that want these posters up!
I'd call Dr. Carlson, but like the many calls I have made in the past, they are never returned. I like to see the abuse of power displayed in this district when Sodemann can make something happen with one fine swoop while all of us are ignored and have to be subjected to the offensive behavior of a rare few.
Keep up the good work School District of Janesville, I'm so very proud. Nice example to the kids in this district.

Sodemann was seen at Parker strutting around last week with writing paper in hand looking at every sign the Gay Straight Alliance had posted and now the signs have been removed. Isn't he powerful!! Wow! Who voted for him anyway????? How many other parents did that? Or was he acting as a school board member? Perhaps an ethics code should be necessary for board members!? He seems to think he can prance around Parker like he's in charge.

How dare our students take action against discrimination and harassment. The schools have no right to discuss sexual orientation. Global warming is a myth too - how dare our students be taught this liberal leaning agenda!
Our schools are full of kids having unprotected sex, underage drinking, drug use, smoking cigerettes, how dare kids take an opportunity to take a stand against bullying and harassment. You go get them Sodemann Family. Lets video tape everyone who participates in this event and call them sinners and whine and cry how Christians are so prosecuted. Come on Bill and Kay, lets get meaner and nastier and increase our assault of negativity toward gay people, keep up the wonderous bashing and "Christian" view you two love inflicting on all of us in Janesville. Lets admit it, homosexulaity is a disease and it can affect other kids. Look out! Taking a stance against bullying and harassment is not the American way of life. How dare gay people even have the right to exist and if they do have that right, they shouldn't be happy and they definatly do not deserve to be treated with the same rights as all others in this country. In fact, lets just start a club with the only purpose of being mean to any and all subordinate group in our society. This is a good message to teach kids. What would we do without the Sodemanns and like minded people who feel so superior and self rightous. Oh, that's right, we might actually have a society that gets along.

How does Carol Winters have standing? Her husband is the janitor. Does she accompany him to work? Does she have some deep-rooted, unresolved feelings that are being stirred up by these posters? She comes across as a repressed busybody spinster in this article. She needs to get a job or a hobby. Live and let live.

To the HS GSA groups, this concerned citizen and many others support you. I can't fathom the hurt you must feel to read the open comments of disgust toward students said by tax-paid district employees. You deserve an academic environment that doesn't victimize you. Do your best in school; be respectful, even to those that aren't respectful; keep your head held high. Prove those "sin-free stone-throwers" wrong by being successful. Life is better for you now than it was 20+ years ago thanks to brave people like yourselves, and it will only get better. If this media coverage of hurtful commentary is making life difficult, remember that this too shall pass.

To the Winters'...
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If you don't like it, don't watch, don't read the posters. If someone was placing religious posters on the walls at the school, I bet you wouldn't complain one bit because it's something you agree with. You can't have it both ways. If you don't want the Day of Silence posters up, there shouldn't be any posters allowed.
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This is a topic very near and dear to me as I have family and friends who are gay. The ridicule and hate they have to endure is incredible. Most of those I know who are gay have moved away from Janesville because of the attitude of some in the community. This issue is just as important as racial equality and gender equality. It's time for everyone to leave their archaic beliefs behind and get with the program.

Carol Winters is afraid someone will turn other children gay.
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Mrs. Winters, it doesn't work that way. You're a rube for even thinking like this. It's not a fad or something cool to try. It's the way some people are, and there is nothing you or anybody else can do about it.
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Homosexuality is not a tolerance or acceptance issue, it's not a liberal or conservative issue, it's a human issue. I know Bill O'Reilly suggests gays are to be treated as less than human, but that doesn't mean he's right.

Wow! I am so impressed at the comments that are on here. I thought for sure when I was reading this article that I would scroll down and see a bunch of narrow-minded gay bashing comments which I'm sure are going to come but I really am surprised. This is about opening your mind and stopping the violence. Its got to be hard enough for these kids to come out but to be picked on or beaten up is not fair for anyone. Hopefully we are moving in the right direction for our future.

Mr. Sodemann - two words...HOME SCHOOL...that way you won't have to worry about your daughters being exposed to society. These are teachable moments for parents and if you want to discuss this over your dinner table, that's where you should do it. Do you have a problem with the Christian groups that are in high schools too?

What is Carol Winters afraid of? Why are "our children at stake"? Carol Winters sounds intolerant at best, if not bigotted.

And where better to talk about intolerance and bullying than at school?

I agree with Rocky, I don't care to see anyone making out in public no matter of their gender or sexual preference. These parents complaining need to wake up, there are gay and lesbians all around us, your children see it everyday. Seeing these posters is not going to make your precious child turn gay! It may however make them more open minded and less hateful than you. I have 3 children and all I want is for them to be successful in life, which to me means finding true happiness in life and career and love (no matter who they may fall in love with).

It is sad that both Daniel Winters and his wife Carol are both offended by the promotion of unity, love, and acceptance.

I feel that their behavior is disgustingly regretful.

stevev has a great point!

Boy-Boy, Girl-Girl, Boy-Girl. I wouldn't want to see any of them kissing or "making out" in a school hallway. ( Holding hands is not a big deal.) That is simply inappropriate behavior for anyone and should be confronted no matter the gender of the kids involved.

it's not just "ok" to be different,it's your right ! being different is what keeps us from being CHINA. the good news is rock county has more and more people from Madison,Chicago, and Milwaukee, moving here. so in the next 10 years this redneck society will no longer existence. i would love to see some of these rednecks with their confederate flags on their back windows drive down the south side of Chicago.i would buy front row seats to watch that.

Instead of sharing perceptions as to what The Day of Silence is, find facts at the source:
http://www.dayofsilence.org/. The Day of Silence is about unacceptable behavior (bullying, harassment, and name-calling in schools) not a debate about beliefs. Kudos to the students for organizing this event and for participating in raising awareness giving all Janesville encouragement, confidence, and optimism that a new generation might overcome today's bigotry.

WOW is all I have to say! "Winters said she had seen boy-boy and girl-girl kissing and holding of hands at both Craig and Parker.“I just find that disgustingly regretful to even watch,” she said" How close minded can you be?

My daughter, as a "friend" of LGBT groups, participated in the Day of Silence a couple years back, and she got a snide remark from a PE teacher whose class she was walking through to get elsewhere.

Is that enough evidence that the event is needed?

Or how about my lovely neighbors, students at Parker, who attend the church down the street every Sunday, who stopped their big ol' pickup truck one afternoon last year, got out, and beat the daylights out of a gay kid who was making his way home after school? Is that enough?

Kudos to the kids -- and teachers and advisors -- with the guts to "speak out" with their Day of Silence against the discrimination that continues in our fair city.

By the way, my daughter never broke her silence, but the next day there was plenty of discussion, which is the point. I could not be more proud of her.

Is this really about posters? If it's that big of a deal then the school should limit how many posters each group can put up. I'm appalled at the comment made by C Winters and that the Gazette printed it. What I find disgusting is how people use religion, hatred, and bigotry as an excuse. We should focus on tolerance and acceptance. It is ok to be different.

The narrow-midedness of this community stikes again. What are these parents going to do when their children go off to college and are exposed to people of other cultures, races, or sexual orientations?