I am a union worker, but I know when a union has gone to far. and the U.A.W. has went to far. and the company isn't helping matters. the union wants to much money and benefits, and the company keeps building the gas guzzlers. and I also agree there are many jobs in Janesville, but alot of them are making things for G.M. I don't wanna see G.M. close the Janesville plant. the city has to much going for it right now, it can't afford to lose the thousands of workers at the plant. either way. both parties really need to use thier heads and work together and get this figuerd out before it's to late.

there are NOT 5,000 waitresses to layoff 160-200 of. so the point is mute for the second time. GM knows they can no longer make gas hogs come 2015. they are just taking the slow route out so they don't have another Detroit on their hands. Janesville is no longer a GM town. if they downsize and retool to build gas efficient cars i will be surprised and in a good way. 10 years ago i was 1 of only a very few people that did NOT drive a GM made car or truck in rock county. today i see much of janesville buying better made and better gas millage cars and trucks. GM has a policy of not listening to the market and doing what they want. as you can see that policy has not worked very well for them.

Perspective is an interesting thing...
I heard about a conversation between an economist and a laid off construction worker about whether or not we are in a recession.
The economist was touting the definition of recession as being two quarters of negative growth.
The construction worker really did not care about the "definition" because HE was in a recession whether the definition fit or not.

benthinkin...

thank you for putting what I was trying to stress in lamen's terms. Unfortuneately, what I said came across as me not caring about other jobs in the comminity, that is far from the truth. What I meant was, when people question why they don't cover the people that lose their jobs in another type of business, it isn't such a blow all at once to a community stucture. And as I said, I was talking about most people, not all. SOmetimes we need to think logically with factual bases, not emotional. I can appreciate offenses being taken, because I understand that we all don't have the ability to step back from our emotions, but if we could all do that from time to time it is amazing how differently things can be perceived. For the record my spouse is in the building industry, and with the demise of the housing market, we are also feeling the financial crunch ... so I am not saying that G.M. is the only company that is to pity, it is all of us, but when there are so many jobs all in one place that are up in limbo, it is sure to have publicity. Also, I am all for waitresses, I used to be one, and would do it in a heartbeat again for the rest of my career if there were benefits...so no disrespect to waitresses.

I completely agree that jobs other than GM in janesville are equally important, especially to those who have them and their families.
The article states 160 to 200 jobs lost in Janesville plant. I have to believe that if 160 to 200 waitresses were laid off in Janesville in the same week it would hit the headlines.

optimism,
Offense taken! This is not about "resentment". It is about community. In case you didn't know, " Let's all be suportive and not worry about if the waitress down the road that looses her job gets news coverage or not" is an oxymoron. This is about paying your bills,feeding your children,reliable transportation,medical care,clothing,schooling, and all of the other basics that we should be able to expect in this country.This is not about egos,it is about my job being as important as yours,the grocery worker,nursing home employee,landscaper,waitress,or any other person who wakes up every day and tries to make a difference in this world.If you truly believe that the only thing that fuels Janesville is General Motors then the rest of us might as well give up.I, for one, am going to continue to be a productive member of society. GO WAITRESSES!!

No offense...but it sounds as if all the nay saying is stemming from a bit of resentment. I bet if things were good for this company and new hires were needed, most of you would be first in line to get a job there if you could. The problem with most of you is in the past you got your egos hurt when it was known that it was very difficult to get a job there. Let's all just be suportive and not worry about if the waitress down the road that loses her job gets news coverage or not. Logically, you know better, restaurants are a dime a dozen, but there is only one General
Motors plant in Janesville,Wisconsin, therefore, the effects of this company have had great purpose in the community. Whether you choose to admit that as the truth or not is irrelevant...it is the truth, and the demise of a United States anarchy is sad no matter who you are or how you look at it.

What strength as a nation??? This once great country is in peril. There is more debt, stress, crime, loss of jobs, hopelessness than ever. Who is going to make sure the American people are taken care of in the future? The government??? NEWSFLASH: It's not the government's job to coddle people. It's the governments job to uphold the laws of the land and not dismantle the foundations. It's up to us, the "citizens" of this country to make it happen. Remember, the U.S.citizens pay the government! They work for us, not us for them!
This country is becoming dangerously reliant on it's government and it's leading us down the wrong path. Look at history. Deny it if you like, and be like the modern age intellects and act like hisotry never existed, but, the fact is, countries fall when the public conscience is erased and it's government becomes the conscience.
The generations of this country are so far withdrawn from truth and rational thiking that the "ignorance" has become our culture.
Ignorance is always correctable….EXCEPT … What should we do if ignorance is taken to be knowledge?? How do we defend against it??
-There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means to detect lies. How do we know if we have the truth in today’s world?
It's called character, integrity, honor, duty, values etc......
"A country that forgets it's history is doomed to repeat it"~ Harry S. Truman

garyprimer~
True. However, the past ways of earning a living through industry isn't the way it once was! Manufacturing can and is being outsourced to other countries. There is no incentive for companies to stick around when they can pay someone pennies as opposed to dollars to manufacture their products. The real money is in the distribution of those products. The middle man money. Don't believe that? Look at Wal-Mart. The wealthiest corporation on planet earth and how many products do they manufacture? An internet based business that has vision toward the future trends that are upcoming is where the wealth is at. It's not in factories.

This may be the age of information, but that does not mean that industry can or will disappear any more than hunting and gathering has disappeared or agriculture has disappeared. Communication has always been a part of man's endeavors and we are experiencing spectacular advances, but we still have to eat, wear clothes, build shelters, and use bathrooms. Don't forget the steam age, the atomic age, the jet age, the space age and the computer age. We still depend on the exploitation of natural resources for our quality of life and our strength as a nation. If we choose to forget that, I am afraid that the world will not.

ZOOM
I think what "darius" meant was that the internet has connected everyone on a global scale. Like you said. Maybe the term "revolves" around the internet is kind of strong, however, it's definately reshaping the way business is done. And, it's also reshaping the communication between human's. My son and daughter would just as soon e-mail someone or text them as opposed to call them on the phone or actually get together with them and hang out. I won't allow that to happen. There has to be a balance somewhere in there. We as parents and leaders of these young, must see that it's not healthy to lose that human element. As darius said, it can be dangerous if not monitored and regulated. You can't build relationships with people without human contact.

The posts about feeling bad for us are correct - I don't understand why I need to worry that I will not have my overpaid job in the future just because the main competition of the company that pays me doesn't let the UAW in the door. At least I get paid when my Union Brothers strike at one of our suppliers and shut us down.

Wow, that was way off topic, and a very narrow view of the world. And no, the world does not revolve around the internet. Maybe you need to get out of your parents basement more often (I kid).

And I think technology is actually connecting young people more than my generation X. It just may not be their neighbors they are connecting too.

PEOPLE (and I'm talking to me too!) need to understand something about industry today. IT'S DEAD! I'm not posting this to show I'm some sort of "wise" person here! I'm posting this because people need to understand that we are not in the "industrial age" anymore. Everything we've learned in this era will not help us in the future of business! The truth is, we are in the information age now! People can ignore the new rules and I promise, wealth and prosperity will ignore them. We are living in an invisible economy with the advancement of technologies. Everything now revolves around the internet! The need for people in factories and even in blue collar sectors of manufacturing are dwindling everyday! Here's the danger of these technologies: In this day and age, technology is advancing at such a fast pace, people are getting left behind. Our society is becoming disconnected from the roots of the family foundation. It's a society of convenience! The human element is being erased from the human conscience. The convenience of cell phones, e-mails, text messaging, conference calling through webcams...etc. I'm not saying these are all bad, I'm saying we need to wake up and understand, we as humans, are not cyberbots nor will we ever be! If our kids and the generations of people are raised without the element of human interaction, where will this country be 20 years from now??
As a person who truly cares about the generations of people coming up and their fates and a proud American citizen, I encourage people, don't let these things happen on our watch. We need to start thinking about what's going on in society and not let technology become our culture. People are our culture!

im reading it again, how people feel sorry for the poor gm workers. whats the matter with you this affecting other factories also, and , their families, that dont make near the money gm employees do. and thank god they because they are going to get the shaft even worse than they already have. what do you mean no benefits for 3 years, my husband takes a little over 3500.00 dollars in medicine a month, and, that doesnt include the doctors. he will die with ou the medicine. my husband has been at lsi since it was cti, and lsi are the worse owners who has had it, but at least we have good insurance. once again the lsi employees are going to get the shaft just like when they were tnt, way to go sheridan. by the way where is that severance pay the former tnt employees were supposed to get? its been years. i bet you dont have to worry about your lights getting shut off next month like alot of people do.to all gm employees and every other factory thats had the shaft thrown at them i hope things get better for us all. and when i say this last thing, for those of you who continually bash gm employees should probably just shut up about it. and remember my husband doesnt even work their. and if i offended anyone, GOOD! those people have worries just like the rest of us.

Hey etowntomilton, just to be fair, I don't want radiology guy painting my car either.

I also work in the medical profession; I am an RN. My only word of caution is to GM workers who feel the years working the line have caused mobility problems. Twenty years running down hospital corridors has virtually ruined my knees (that and excess weight I am afraid). It is extremely difficult to find sit-down work in health care unless one becomes a receptionist or unit clerk. And, of course, those jobs don't pay the best. That's just a word of caution. Otherwise, health care jobs are increasingly difficult to fill.

Wow, Seabee. That's quite the generalization you just threw out there.

Smartypants, I don't know how anybody else feels, but I don't have alot of confidence in "paint booth guy" making the jump to reading my med charts.

Zoom-I'm looking for the story on wages and benefits.Heres 2 that you may want to read. More buyouts for GM.Jan.18th .... Can GM keep its word? Oct.2 2007...Go to the news calendar and go back to those months and you should be able to find them.

Oops, sorry.

Health care workers are next.

I feel for the GM workers. I would not want to have the question of "will I have a job tomorrow" hanging over my head on a daily basis. I work in the medical field and would like to make a suggestion. If at all possible for any of you out there that may take the buyout, or are having a hard time deciding, I would take it and consider going back to school at a technical college for nursing, xray, dental hygienist, etc.. Most medical jobs are very secure. The benefits are great. Most offer generous time off, and some even offer free health insurance (no out of pocket premiums), and the pay is very comparable to GM wages give or take a few bucks here and there depending on what you do and what facility you work for. You will never get laid off, and you can move anywhere in the "world" and find a job!! You will never have to worry about job security due to the fact that there will always be a need for healthcare workers. The schooling is not that difficult, and you won't be stuck on an assembly line the rest of your life. Granted, the medical field is not for everyone, but look into it and give it some thought. I hope no one rips on this comment because I am only trying to give a suggestion here that may help some people out. I feel for all of you at GM, and hope the best for you!!

Zoom-Yes to your guestion.It use to be one year,with their new tier program it will be three years before it kicks in,not sure about when you can start your 401k either.This isn't what it's all cracked up too be !One income from GM will not be enough for a single parent to raise 2 children on.Yes I know people do it on less...but are they living or just existing ???

diamondback,
Do you have first hand knowledge of GM benefits, or did you hear that from someone else? I have a hard time believing that a full time GM worker will not be offered health insurance for three years. Is it possible that the three year waiting period is for the 401k only? Many businesses have a one year wait.

Zoom- New hires will NOT have benefits for 3 years.Most... not all retail,food service and smaller factories insurance isn't worth the paper it's printed on.If I was just starting out in life I would want insurance knowing what I know now.I think you and I should agree to disagree on this issue.:)

Zoom, I had a little trouble deciphering futureteacher's comments, and
wasn't sure if I was really reading that she was attributing negative
comments about the local teacher's "fight" primarily to GM workers. I guess
she was. That puzzles me even more.
I was also amazed by miyata's comments stating "probably a lot of the GM
bashing is generated by a number of GM employees treating non-gm people like they are beneath them."
then she (or he) said
"when things happen to the people that treated them like **** they get a good chuckle."
and then miyata suggested "when some nitwit more than likely from
a GM family tells you that you HAVE TO drive a GM car because you live in a
GM town." Miyata goes on to say not all GM people are like that, but...."
Well then why even mention GM people in the comment at all? You'll have
***s in every walk of life....and, until someone takes a poll or can
prove that over 10% (let's say, maybe a couple hundred) of GM workers are
this way, I think hateful comments by the GM hater must show some form of
envy because of their skewed perspective. How could it be anything else? No one has proven that a even a 10% minority (let alone a large majority) of GM workers treat others as these few say. If it was me and I'd personally been treated poorly by,let's say, 50 or100 GM workers,I'd start to
wonder what I was doing to turn so many people against me. Just by not being
in their particular bracket of "middle class"? There'd have to be more to it
than that.
This morning on both local and national news there were similar stories
about "Rich people....are getting richer faster than middle-income earners
and the poor". One was a national story, and one related to Wisconsin. Well, GM workers, for example, fall solidly into the middle class based on "poor, middle-class and rich" guidelines. I don't think cutting GM wages(done), or GM jobs (done) will be a day for rejoicing for those who hate
them, or those who, sadly, fall into the "poor" category, or even the middle
class for that matter. It could happen
that, with GM wages cut in half, those who pay $8, $10, $12 an hour could
attempt to lower their wages based on current economy. Face it, wages in the
manufacturing and service industry are somewhat based on the value of the
product. Will anyone, and should they, pay you the same whether you make hot
fudge sundaes or automobiles? And, lowering the wages of those GM workers
will not likely keep the status of those GM execs and other rich folks from
continuing to rise as everyone else's status continues to fall. There will
just be more "poor" to keep us all company at the bottom. Let's not
sacrifice the middle class in a futile attempt to even things out. It's
starting to sound almost scary.

I haven't seen that either, Zoom, or most of mine would have been deleted. So maybe I'll edit my previous comment for clarity (I guess I can see where some negative comments I quoted might have been misinterpreted as own, I don't want to take ownership of them.) I hope that's all it was.
My deleted post was partly commenting on yours.

RU: The comments are limited to 3000 characters automatically...I've read some that have hit that limit. I've never seen a post deleted for length.

Why would GM workers not have insurance?

Zoom- I agree if BOTH make $28,000.If one makes say $8.00/hour @40hrs./week thats $15,000.ONE trip to the hospital with no insurance and that family is DONE.I just feel this town/community is not going too fare so well with the lost of jobs.

Well, no I don't think so JCK because probably a third (est)of workers don't even have one, and at least some of the commenters probably already have one, and the ones that don't probably are glad they don't. It doesn't matter anyway, they've removed both of our comments. And I didn't even say the *p* word. I hope they removed mine because of extreme length, because I have no idea what else I said that was offensive-not more offensive than the insults I was referring to, anyway.
If possible Mr. Editor, for future reference and to make me feel better about it, I would like to know if length was the reason.

prounion, you should ask about the efficiency of the plant, our efficiency is in the top 5 for assembly plants! We have come great lengths just in the last 10 years here. I can't argue the 1/2 the wage aspect other than that's up to their barganing unit, if they have one.

You tell em Ace! I think we should continue to ignore the fact that the competition's workers are more efficient for 1/2 the cost.

I'm tellin' you, go out and rent 'Roger & Me', Michael Moore's first film documentary! Alot of similarities to what's going on now. And as for those who are bashing the GM employee's for how much they make, It's true, we make alot for this area but if you go to Madison, Rockford or Milwaukee; it's an average wage. So for those who are complaining we make too much, first you're jealous, second move to or get a job in a bigger city and make what we make. It's rediculous that people don't understand what really goes on behind those gates, they'd have a whole new outlook of the GM worker, infact if they hire, go apply and see how much we work. The days of reading papers, catching a nap, and mixing drinks on the job are long gone. Laid off workers weather it be at GM, LSI, Lear, McDonalds, Kwik Trip, etc.. isn't a good thing. It puts a strain on them and everyone around both financially and mentally. I could have a rebuttle on most everyones comments, alot have good points, and most have NO idea what they're talking about. 'Futureteacher', take economics and a couple history classes before you go spouting off, I'm glad my kids won't be taught by you, I think the society is in enough trouble without misguiding the youth!

OK, my 401k math was wrong. Basically, full time employment is 2,080 hours per year. If GM contributes $1 per hour, then the total is $2,080 a year. That is not bad compared to most businesses.

futueteacher: The discussion of teachers is off-topic. Comments made about teacher salaries and benefits in other blogs were not made specifically by GM workers. And you might want to work on your grammer. Your writing doesn't reflect well if you really are going to be a teacher.

diamondback: The doom and gloom is a little over the top. If two parents can't provide for their family on $28,000 (gross) EACH, then something is wrong. Yes, that means both parents will have to work, just like most families.

Pensions have not been provided by most businesses for a very long time. If GM matches $1 per hour of work (say $1 per $14), that is an AUTOMATIC 7% gain on your savings, not to mention the tax benefit of a 401K. Not too bad. Over the long term, your money, plus the GM matching, will also rise with the market.

TCB: Yes, GM quality is up, but they have not kept pace with the "foreign" makers, who happen to make a lot of product in North America. I would attribute the lag more to design and engineering shortfalls than actual production though.

TCB you are correct! We should really be earning more money for the high quality GM products we build. I told that to my supervisor last time he woke me up.

futureteacher-This is apples to oranges !When parents DON'T make a wage that is able too raise a family on, it makes it that much harder on children !! They know when mom and dad are stressed out .No money just for the basics-food-rent -heat etc. You might as well forget about new shoes,clothes and oh yes SCHOOL SUPPLIES !!As far as GM goes NO I'm sure the workers never thought that their UNION would sell them down the river.Gernal Motors has done a lot for ths town,I just wonder when this is going to affect ALL jobs in this town ?? No jobs, no need to live here!Take a look at what happened to Detroit,Michigan when they lost all those auto jobs.Last I heard on ANY given day they have 9000 foreclosed HOMES.Not too long ago in the gazette there were 47 in our paper !! Do you see what I see!!!

futurteacher"

Bloated wage? Are you referring to teacher salaries or gm assembler salaries? Teacher salaries and benefits and GM hourly wages are calculated largely by using similar union methodologies primarily senority.

Over the past 15 years GM products have consistently shown improvements in quality and reliability, how about them local test scores-can you say the same? Are Janesville students consistently scoring higher scores over the past 15 years or have they been flat? I think we all know the answer.

If the JSD or GM were to tie salaries to the products they produce, JSD would be cleaning house and GM employees would be flush with cash. Ironic isnt it.

"turned it into what it is today" is a double edged sword. Not only has GM provided a bloated wage to employees and their families, but the mentality of the fair, close mindednesstoward variety and diversity, attitude towards teachers, etc too! When the teachers contract was being debated here and the response was "you knew what you were getting into" now who's turn is it? How important will education be to your children when your precious GM jobs are gone. The city will not go under but thing will change.

My heart goes out to all GM workers and everyone it affects. You guys built this town and turned it into what is is today. I hope someone figures something quick or this town could go under.

unkbd- You are correct on 401k. Sorry for the mistake on my part.

SarahB-Yes thats the truth !! I also was told that after the 21st of this month GM is going to go on a 3 week lay-off .(both shifts)It sure doesn't look good !One more thing GM works 48 weeks a year so my math was off a little.(2weeks off in July 2weeks off in December)New hires will not be paid for those weeks.SAD SAD SAD !!!!

Diamondback on the 401k comment I believe you are incorrect. GM will be contributing to the new hires 401k. If I remember correctly it will be a dollar for every paid hour of work. Not much but....

Diamondback: Are you serious? No benefits for three years?! Your math is correct. At $13.50/hour, the annual wage will be just over $28,000 before taxes. Match that with ever-rising gas prices leading to further hikes in food prices (not to mention any other necessity that travels via semi), and there will be even heavier stress on social services. I think we are at the beginning of a nightmare and I am frightened already.

This is a very sad for the working familes of Janesville ! Not only will LSI jobs be moved back to GM it's my guess Lear will be moved back also .GM will be able to have their own employes building seats(LEAR) and sub-assembly(LSI)for a faction of what these people are making now.If and when GM does hire, new hires will be making $13.00 to $14.00/hour. A new hire will not have eye ,dental or health insurance.They will NOT have the perks and benefits for 3 years !The big thing is NO PENISON !!you will have to have a401k plan that GM will not add to! I wonder how many people will be willing/able too take these jobs ? If I did the math right new hires will be making $28,000.00 a year BEFORE taxes,after taxes $21,000.00.How do you raise a family on that? Janesville will never be the same:(

Lussonee: I am sorry about your wife's LSI job being cut. That creates a lot of stress on a family. I think your story suggestion is a great one and I hope the Gazette editors take heed. I, for one, did not know that LSI had cut half of its force already. I always knew that whatever happens at GM affects all of the Beloit-Janesville area, but I had no idea the impact had already begun. Again, I am sorry about your wife's job ending. I will keep your family and all the others feeling the pinch in my prayers.

I am one of the people who took a buy out. It was not a easy choice. I was brought up to think that working at GM was the "Holy Grail". I was always told about the up and down years that go along with working at GM. But things are different now. In the past when a product become unpopular, GM would just re-tool the plant and build a new product. But now, money is tight and GM is losing market share to Toyota Honda and the host of others. They have nothing to bring in to replace the current product. If there is another re-rate, the plant will be down to one shift, and how long it will last after that is hard to tell. If you are a GM worker and thinking about the buy out, if you can, take it and start a new life. This trend is unlikley to turn around. Ask Sheridan about GM building Janesville a new plant. He stopped talking about that a couple of years ago.

mirandadee - No one really answered your question. GM has been woven in the Janesville culture for almost 100 years. My grand father for example worked for them as far back as the 1930s. Almost everyone in Janesville has some connection to GM. There have been good years and there has been bad ones. Just like war, people remember the bad times.

The term "GM" is often used to refer to the workers, or the company, or the union, or sometimes all of them at once. This always muddies the water as well. GM has often been the big kid on the play ground. It is only human nature to lob verbal jabs at the big man on campus. However, historically people are often careful how they parse their critisism or praise of GM. People who do not fit into the GM club proper sometimes feel as though they are outsiders. This causes resentment - latent or otherwise. It reminds me of a friend of mine who was a GI in the Viet Nam war. He told me because I was not stationed in Viet Nam proper; I could not us the term 'Nam when talking about Viet Nam. He claimed his exclusive group of Americans that served in Viet Nam were the only ones allowed to use the term 'Nam. The term Vietnam has many meanings - the GI experience; the country; our war there; and etc., etc. The discussion of GM in Janesville by the locals is a similar experience. If you are from the out-group, you talk about GM at your own peril. But I digress.

Back to GM. During good times, the surrounding communities enjoy the extra cash flowing into the local economy. During bad times like the late 1970s (Rust Belt) and early 1980s and let's say for the sake of argument, now, entire gaggles of graduating students have had to move to other parts of the state or country to find work. Local parents look around and see the big kid on the play ground as the only business marginally left standing and perceived to be affecting the rest of the local economy whether true or not. There then, come some of the seeds of the bashing.

Many people are now quietly surprised the Janesville plant is still operating considering it is one of the last ones left in North America. The news media collectively continues to be incredulously surprised when already underemployed Americans can not afford to buy big not so necessarily fuel efficient vehicles. Us old guys have watched GM's fate ebb and tide for generations. Welcome to the current chapter.

Bob Keith
cooldadiomedia.com

My wife worked for LSI until today.She was informed by the union rep. that there was nothing he could do,her job was going to GM.Half of the employees at LSI have been laid off.The people at LSI make fifty percent of what GM employees make,but they are the first to go when GM looses money.The headline is "Cuts cost local GM jobs".Will the Gazette print an article when a waitress,dish washer,store clerk,etc. lose their job with the headline "GM production cuts destroy working families".Lets be fare.

The sub fund is part of the employee's total compensation package as a paid benefit similar to insurance etc.
When the employee costs are quoted in the paper ($68 per hour etc.), that figure is the total compensation cost and includes things like the sub, vacation, health care, etc.
In effect it is part of the employees pay that supports the fund.

The GM workers will be fine. I suspect those laid off now will be called back to replace people taking the next round of buyouts.

The jobs at the suppliers will probably be permanently lost, unless gas drops back down to $1.50/gallon, and full size SUV's come back into favor. I don't see that happening.

when gm cuts back it not only affects gm workers, but it affects other factories also, i never understand why people bash gm im sure there employees have nothing to do with these decisions,but the only thing that bothers me is the concern there is, is for the gm workers and their families. my husband pays union dues just like gm does, yet he gets no sub pay when he is layed off,the unemployment isnt that great, so what does his plant even need a union for? those workers over there benefit nothing from it. i also have a question. where does the sub pay come from? i surely hope all those union dues isnt where it is coming from. also people who work at gm have mortgages, utilities, food to buy, and kids to take care of so theyre not getting the best deal either.

The bashing (of GM, Bush, oil prices, and whatnot) has already reached a fever pitch in the news blog post:
http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/lates...

wow im surprised there have been no gm bashing comments on here yet. as someone who knows NOTHING about gm im always kinda curious as to why there is always such negativity when gm makes the headlines.