Are you MBA or counsel? I'm a hair's breadth from taking my LSAT.

I am a bit of a government geek. :)
I also remember that being a case study in my business law class. I just had to look up the right statute.

Bravo MikeF! Thanks for posting that statute.

State statute exempts the city from liability for injuries sustained by a participant in a recreational activity. The statute goes on further to define certain circumstances and fully define who is exempt and when, but in this case, the city could not be sued. It is state statute 895.52 found at http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/St....

What happens when someone hurts themselves at the skate park? They break and arm, leg, whatever, and need medical help. Will the city get sued for providing a venue for skaters?

Right strycnine, we get that skateboarding shouldn't be a crime. And riding a board doesn't do damage- most of us know that. But what does do damage is when skaters wax planters or curbs. It leaves an eyesore. And when a board goes into a glass door, a dent in the shape of a tail is pretty hard to mistake.
Don't get me wrong- I agree with you that skaters need a place to skate.
I just wish that so much animosity didn't have to occur before something was done, ya know? It seems things have to get vey bad before anything is taken seriously.
In Cali, Oregon, NYC, they had skateparks in the 70's.

Oh...and to add to the question that Seabee had for beast. Not only are 3 roller rinks gone, but hanging out in parks is considered loitering, and a BMX track now Rotary Gardens, outdoor theaters, circuit downtown are gone. I can keep going if you like.

Ok...first...property damage is already a crime...skateboarding isn't and shouldn't be a crime. If you have property damage call the police. Should we ban shopping because people shoplift everyday...NO...Don't tell me it isn't the same thing...cause it is. Second...I keep reading "I don't rely on the city to provide entertainment for my kids"...You should!! not only for your kids but yourself...you are part of the city...you may have heard of the word (community). I pay taxes and I sure as heck would like to see it going into the construction of skate parks and fun facilities for teens.

MikeF- The best construction is smooth cement, ramps, strong rail, curbs, etc. There is the construction of half-pipes, pipes and coping on the halfpipes, transitions and hills. You need a pretty specialized system of construction.
They could go cheap and throw some of the plastic or wooden ramps on a tennis court, but it's be trashed in about a year or so.
I used to skate, my husband skates, my son is picking it up. $400,000 is actually pretty cheap.
It wouldn't just service skateboarders. BMXers, scooter riders, and rollerbladers would all use it.
I do sympathize with private property owners having damage. Skateboards can fly and do damage- I've seen them take out windows and headlights when they get away.
You know what would be wonderful? A skatepark and a groomed, landscaped hill that can be groomed into a halfpipe for snowboarding.

It should be noted that state law prohibits skateboarding on the streets. This ordinance would not change anything where that is concerned.
A question is why does it take $400,000 to build the skatepark? Is this a normal price for a skatepark? Maybe it is, I do not know. That is why I am asking.

Public hearing at 7 p.m. Monday, Dec. 10 at the city council meeting--tell the skateboarders to be there to advocate for themselves because I'm not sure I'll be able to make it!

I also feel that skateboarders should have a place to ride that will not cause any damage--that is why I would like to hear from the Janesville Outdoor Skatepark Committee and skateboarders in the community. It seems to me that all of us advocating on this forum do not skate and are thinking that kids will just be drawn to the skatepark and forget about the downtown. As thebeast said, and kiwi reiterated, skaters are drawn to the street. That is why I would like to hear from skaters and the skatepark committee fundraisers. Where are they? I don't foresee ONLY building a skatepark as an answer to this issue.

Like thebeast said, skateboarding relies on the terrain. Steps, inclines, ledges, etc. so abundant in the downtown areas are exactly draws skaters and bikers there. I'm sure there is damage to structures, but that's exactly why an alternate area like the skatepark needs to be offered. The downtown area is far from being the city's hotspot, but i sympathize with property owners dealing with damages. Skaters will skate where the skating is good, that much is certain. I do hope, however, that they will be responsible and respectful to both property and the vehicles/pedestrians that share the streets and sidewalks.

sfcm-I agree that there have been improvements made in the downtown area; however, there are still numerous vacated buildings, and it seems that the businesses that remain down there are the ones that have been there since I was younger...ya know, back when they still had a movie theater down there ;) Living out of state and returning to find one way streets that have been changed to two way...I don't see the need. Money that was wasted making changes like that could have easily been put toward projects like a new skate park and revamping other parks. And,unfortunately, I don't skateboard, but I do think that with the increased popularity, those who do, should have some place accessible to them...just like those who play basketball, sand volleyball, and disc golf for example.

Is anyone on this forum a skateboarder? Is anyone on the Janesville Outdoor Skatepark Committee that has been fundraising for a skatepark? how many fundraisers have they done that results in their efforts "inching along?" I would like to hear their input on the skatepark and what it would require for the downtown skateboarders to be attracted to it. How much does it cost to ride at The Pipe?

ChitownMavis--we seem to differ on our views of downtown Janesville's current condition. Dilapidated is not a word I would use to describe downtown Janesville. I think there have been many developments and improvements, although there seems to be a long way to go before we would be considered an entertainment destination (except for the skateboarders!!!). :)

The fact that businesses downtown desire to remain unscathed by the activities of various groups of youths (because I'm sure that there are other activities like biking and blading that cause similar damage)should not be scorned. Over the years the downtown area has become increasingly delapidated, but some businesses have had the gumption to stick it out. If patrons of the west and south sides want the few businesses that remain in the downtown and aforementioned areas to stay, they'll have to make it worthwhile. Having to pay for property damage sustained from different boarding/skating/biking activities is definitely a step in the wrong direction. Therefore, I think that putting a skate park in would be a valuable endeavor for the city. Everyone knows that there is money in this city. It's there-it just needs to be effectivly tapped. If enough money can be raised, why not put a skate park in Palmer Park and Peace Park on the west side. These two parks undoubtedly receive the most foot traffic in Janesville and are easily accessible from the bike trail, which can also be used by all of these wheeled "criminals". By no means do I think that fining young people for boarding downtown will deter them from what they are doing, but giving them an alternative is definitely worth a shot. Hell, if it doesn't work well then I guess it can just be added to a list of other extinct or ailing activities ("distractions") for Janesville youth (do the Roller Rink, Amazon Station, Riverside Park (yikes) ring a bell?)

What a trip it would be for all of us to show up at the council's public hearing at 7 p.m. Monday, Dec. 10 to put our two cents in!

proartist--I think your health and safety of the skateboarders perspective is interesting and should be noted by The Gazette reporters and/or City Council. Brunner stated that what spurred the ordinance was pedestrian safety and downtown property damage--in fact the latest proposal came from the Downtown Development Alliance. I'm not convinced that the council is looking at this issue as a health and safety issue from the skateboarders' and motorists' viewpoint.

I've had people on bikes (and people walking) do the same thing that you have described in your post and I don't feel that the city should enact an ordinance that bans biking (or walking) on all city streets--operators on boards and motorists need to act with caution. However, I can definitely appreciate your concern! I do think that the safety of the skateboarders and motorists should be considered, but I don't believe that banning skateboarding on all city streets is the way to consider such an issue.

Skateboarders often congregate at the Chase Bank parking lot after business hours and act irritated if they have to move out of the way when a customer drives up to use the ATM. They regularly go down the street - in the middle of the road - on Atwood and E. Milwaukee risking injury when the lights change at the adjoining intersection for they rarely look at or obey those same lights. This isn't just a property protection, elite-of-Janesville, or discriminatory ordinance being proposed. It's a health and safety issue for not only skateboarders but also for those driving vehicles amid their darting in and out.

I work in a large building that has picnic tables and benches outdoors. I have personally seen groups of kids using these things to perform tricks. They have broken one of the benches and marred the other ones. We are on our second set of picnic tables. Call the cops? They're gone in a flash.
Maybe a few are doing these things, I don't care, but no wonder people are leery of this.
Also, I remember my childhood well, and I never expected, nor do I expect now, the city to provide entertainment venues for me or my kids.

Nice to see that all we have to worry about in this community is skate boarders. Pull your collective heads out of your rears! More property damage and police calls go to the people who frequent the bars downtown than the kids that ride down there. Do we really think that putting a skate park on the far east side is going to curb kids riding downtown? How are they going to get to Palmer park? Many of these kids have parents that are working two jobs to pay their high property taxes to pay for more useless parks! Why don't we demo one of the many vacant buildings downtown and put the park there. It would be equal distance for everyone to get to. I am tired of this town putting everything on the north and east side. While the south and west side go un-noticed. I wish this city knew how to have a proactive approach to things, instead of writing more liberty suppressing laws. Oh well, that’s what you get when you let the rich snobs of this town get their way. By the way, ticketing a kids is ticketing their parents, talk about making a bad situation worse. This city sucks.

there is nothing in this town for our young people to do. something has to be done if people haven't look around there are to many of them in troublewithe law.

Apparently business owner's HAVE had their property damaged and that is why this ordinance is being proposed. If I was a downtown business owner I would not expect to have to repair my property regularly just so that others can skate there. However, it seems reasonable to assume that if there were a skatepark that at least some, but not all, of the damage would leave the downtown area. Even though my kids skate pretty much only in our driveway and probably would not use the skatepark becasue we just live too far away from Palmer Park, I would not at all mind paying some $$ so that Janesville could have a skatepark. It would be a nice addition to our city. On a side note, about a month ago my wife and I were leaving Cherries restaurant downtown and we noticed about 15 kids skateboarding through the nearby bank's drive-through area. I never thought about any damage that they might be doing, but I was impressed that on this reasonably cold night that so many kids would be outside getting some exercise while my kids were at home watching TV and playing video games!

Seabee....Janesville used to have 3 roller rinks....where are they now?

Everyone should just be glad to see that there are still some kids doing actual physical activities instead of sitting on their butts for hours playing mindless video games. When I was younger we were always out and about till dark. My husband, who is older than I also said that when he was a kid they were always outside doing things and that they had to be home once the street lights came on. As long as these kids are not ramming into pedestrians I don't see why anyone should care.

Hey beast, if skateboarding is one of the few activities left, that presumes at one time there were more activities. So, exactly what activities have been taken away?

Skateboarding is one of the few activities left for teens to do in this city. I am a former skateboarder, live downtown, and as an eighteen-year-old have the right to vote.

The idea of banning skateboarding in the downtown area is absolutely idiotic. I frequent the targeted area on foot, and I have never encountered any problems with skateboarders either as a nuisance or as a hazard while walking. From years in the area, I can say that I have never seen any severe property damage caused by skateboarding.

An important thing to consider is that the downtown is the perfect place for skateboarding. Although a skatepark would be wonderful, the essence of skateboarding has always been in street skating, and our downtown provides one of the few good places for this in the city. Using sidewalks and bike trails would be impossible- skateboarding relies upon terrain, not flat ground.

Finally, if skateboarding were banned, there would be little change in the amount of skateboarding done in the downtown area. Skateboarding is not a crime, and shouldn't be treated as such. Like any sports enthusiasts, skateboarders would not be easily deterred from their sport.

As a voter, I would vote against any law to prevent skateboarding. Kids need this, and we shouldn't take it away from them.

How about the issue of damage to private property caused by skateboarders? Ever have your hard wwork damaged by a kid that thinks they can do whatever they want? The ordinance is a great idea, and building an actual skate-park is a great idea too.

No wonder our childern are fat and lazy. Let's take something else away from them, so they can sit inside all day playing video games. I think there are bigger issues in Janesville that need to be dealt with first.

Gary and Blue21,
Things are not the same as back in the day, when we went outside and played until our parents called us in. We as parents cannot and do not "turn our kids loose" because you never know what will happen. There are a few kids and parents that make it necessary for the city to mandate the actions of all. Every city needs something for the youth to do. In my teens it was cruising downtown, dancing at dry bars or roller skating. All of which are gone. Try to honestly remember your youth. The city does not need to provide entertainment, but the city is a space for all, teens included. Gary, my child is also involved in school clubs,sports and volunteerism but if he wants to ride his skateboard sometime he should be free to do so.

I am sorry but when I tell my kids to go out and play I shouldn't have to have a checklist of things they can't use like skateboards. I'm sure that there is 100 times more damage done just in door dings with all the bars in this town no one complains about that. Wow...skateboarding a crime...what if I kick a hole in your window, are you going to ban shoes. I used to skateboard and I respected others property it's just some people are just plain disrespectful not skateboarders in general. My kids go out and play they don't need to live a sheltered movies and books life everyday. City of parks ha...more like City of Jerks, Bars, Boredom, and Whiners.

I agree, Gary.
It seems as if parents think that it's the city/county/world's job to provide entertainment for their offspring.
I provide books, toys, Internet access, movies, etc. for my children. They have never required entertainment from the city, or whatever.
My kids are teens. They are in extra-curricular activies at school and sports. If they want to rollerblade, they put the blades on and skate. They don't need others' property to jump on, slide on, mess up. They were brought up to respect others' property, and to take care of their own needs.

The real problem is not the kids or the skateboarding, but parents who think that someone else should provide for and entertain their children. No matter where you live in this country, you hear the same complaint that there is nothing for the kids to do. Parents buy children skateboards or bikes and sometimes even all-terrain vehicles and snowmobiles and turn them loose to use them on other peoples property. They think that they are being good parents because they have provided these things for their children and don't take a bit of responsibility for how their children use them. The kids are happy and not around to bother the parents. I know, I know, a grumpy old man. There was a time when people knew that with age comes wisdom. Not me, of course, I was young then and already knew everything.

This is a sorry community when it comes to kids activities. I am a mother and have a son that used to skateboard. There is a very limited range of activities for kids to do in Janesville, lets limit it a little more. Teens have always been to blame for something, my generation was the cruising downtown, the city pushed it, now they are up on Milton Ave and there are just as many problems there, with higher speed limits. I hope the skate park will be built and made a free place for kids to utilize if you are going to place limits on skateboarding. Keep in mind some kids use their skateboards as a mode of transportation. Also tricks with BMX bikes and rollerblades can cause the same type of damage.